All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

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All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Gene Alley, PIT 0 votes

Jay Bell, PIT/NYM 0 votes

Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM 2 votes

Hubie Brooks, NYM/MON 0 votes

Orlando Cabrera, MON 0 votes

Ivan DeJesus, CHI/PHI 0 votes

Shawon Dunston, CHI/NYM 3 votes

Yunel Escobar, ATL 0 votes

Tim Foli, NYM/MON/PIT 0 votes

Mark Grudzielanek, MON 0 votes

Rafael Furcal, ATL 0 votes

Alex Gonzalez, FLA 0 votes

Cristian Guzman, WAS 0 votes

Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI 4 votes

Steve Jeltz, PHI 0 votes

Don Kessinger, CHI/STL 0 votes

Dal Maxvill, STL/PIT 0 votes

Rey Ordoñez, NYM 0 votes

Hanley Ramirez, FLA 4 votes

Edgar Renteria, FLA 0 votes

Jose Reyes, NYM 11 votes

Jimmy Rollins, PHI 4 votes

Rafael Santana, NYM 0 votes

Ozzie Smith, STL 18 votes

Chris Speier, MON 0 votes

Kevin Stocker, PHI 0 votes

Garry Templeton, STL/NYM 0 votes

Frank Taveras, PIT/NYM/MON 0 votes

G-Fafif
May 27 2010 05:09 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 27 2010 10:38 PM

You don't necessarily have to be a Wizard to pick two National League East shortstops...

Kong76
May 27 2010 05:21 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Ozzie and a write in for Ernie Banks.

Nymr83
May 27 2010 05:24 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

i went with defense, taking Dunston and the wizard

G-Fafif
May 27 2010 05:25 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Kong76 wrote:
Ozzie and a write in for Ernie Banks.

Banks listed among the 1B in deference to that being the position he played while the Cubs were an N.L. East team ('69 to '93).

Kong76
May 27 2010 05:36 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Saw that afterward and was also a little confused forgetting the years
thing about east and no east and west in my rain delayed haste to vote
and I know Banks played a lot less SS than 1B but he's like in the top ten
SS in The Baseball Abstract and I was thinking and not thinking at same time.

(how's that for a run on)

batmagadanleadoff
May 27 2010 05:41 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Ernie Banks, limited to his NL East record, sucked. 1969 was the last year Banks was an everyday starter. He appeared in 72 games in 1970 and 39 games in 1971, his final season -- and pre Mendoza line sub Mendoza-line at that.

Kong76
May 27 2010 05:47 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Yeah, I already admitted I messed up ... thanks for piling on.

John Cougar Lunchbucket
May 27 2010 05:57 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

I'm kind of wishing these choices did not include contemporary players: It's hard not to cast a vote for Hanley Ramirez.

G-Fafif
May 27 2010 06:13 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Kong76 wrote:
Saw that afterward and was also a little confused forgetting the years
thing about east and no east and west in my rain delayed haste to vote
and I know Banks played a lot less SS than 1B but he's like in the top ten
SS in The Baseball Abstract and I was thinking and not thinking at same time.

(how's that for a run on)

It's outstanding!

batmagadanleadoff
May 27 2010 06:15 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Ernie Banks, limited to his NL East record, sucked. 1969 was the last year Banks was an everyday starter. He appeared in 72 games in 1970 and 39 games in 1971, his final season -- and pre Mendoza line sub Mendoza-line at that.

Kong76 wrote:
Yeah, I already admitted I messed up ... thanks for piling on.

I messed up, too. My message should've been posted in the First Base thread.

G-Fafif
May 27 2010 06:15 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote:
I'm kind of wishing these choices did not include contemporary players: It's hard not to cast a vote for Hanley Ramirez.

I was tempted to go with Hanley after reading his SI profile this week. Hard to eliminate the contemporary, though, given that the contemporary includes the likes of Larry Jones at third and Chase Utley at second.

metsmarathon
May 27 2010 06:21 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs

62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL
35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI
27.4 Gene Alley, PIT
25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA
24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI
23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM
22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM
22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM
17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL
17.4 Garry Templeton, STL

G-Fafif
May 27 2010 06:24 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

metsmarathon wrote:
top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs

62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL
35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI
27.4 Gene Alley, PIT
25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA
24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI
23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM
22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM
22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM
17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL
17.4 Garry Templeton, STL

This just their NL East years? If so, beautiful research.

Zvon
May 27 2010 06:31 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Kong76 wrote:
Saw that afterward and was also a little confused forgetting the years
thing about east and no east and west in my rain delayed haste to vote
and I know Banks played a lot less SS than 1B but he's like in the top ten
SS in The Baseball Abstract and I was thinking and not thinking at same time.

(how's that for a run on)

I actually thought Banks played more SS than 1st.
He did play in the days I was just starting to follow baseball religiously.
And I suppose anything not Mets was only in my peripheral vision.

These days, with the pace everything seems to move, everything is in my peripheral vision

Rockin' Doc
May 27 2010 06:36 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

I went with Ozzie and Reyes. Hanley Ramirez is off to a tremendous start, but he hasn't done it long enough (yet) so he finishes third on my ballot.

Ashie62
May 27 2010 06:46 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

I'm the Harrelson vote, Shawon Dunston has 2 more than Buddy?

batmagadanleadoff
May 27 2010 06:52 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

metsmarathon wrote:
top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs

62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL
35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI
27.4 Gene Alley, PIT
25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA
24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI
23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM
22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM
22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM
17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL
17.4 Garry Templeton, STL

Gene Alley better than HanRam? This does not compute -- not by any measure. That has to be Alley's career, rather than his NL East years.

batmagadanleadoff
May 27 2010 06:54 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Rockin' Doc wrote:
I went with Ozzie and Reyes. Hanley Ramirez is off to a tremendous start, but he hasn't done it long enough (yet) so he finishes third on my ballot.

How much longer than Hanram d'ya think Reyes was doing it?

metsmarathon
May 27 2010 07:14 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
metsmarathon wrote:
top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs

62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL
35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI
27.4 Gene Alley, PIT
25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA
24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI
23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM
22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM
22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM
17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL
17.4 Garry Templeton, STL

Gene Alley better than HanRam? This does not compute -- not by any measure. That has to be Alley's career, rather than his NL East years.

gene alley played all 11 years with the pirates.

batmagadanleadoff
May 27 2010 07:31 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs

62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL
35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI
27.4 Gene Alley, PIT
25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA
24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI
23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM
22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM
22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM
17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL
17.4 Garry Templeton, STL

Gene Alley better than HanRam? This does not compute -- not by any measure. That has to be Alley's career, rather than his NL East years.

gene alley played all 11 years with the pirates.

Yeah, but there was no NL East prior to the 1969 season. Alley's NL East WAR is 5.3.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... osition=SS

Edgy DC
May 27 2010 08:00 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

I'm withholding my vote in protest until the Mets are added to Garry Templeton's resume.

metsmarathon
May 27 2010 08:19 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

ah. whoops. missed that minor detail.

Rockin' Doc
May 27 2010 09:06 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Rockin' Doc wrote:
I went with Ozzie and Reyes. Hanley Ramirez is off to a tremendous start, but he hasn't done it long enough (yet) so he finishes third on my ballot.

How much longer than Hanram d'ya think Reyes was doing it?

Reyes has 2 more seasons at the major league level and has appeared in 190 more games than Hanley. Granted, the difference isn't huge, but they each have their own strengths. Besides, I reserve the right as a Mets fan to allow my personal biases and preferences to influence close calls.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 27 2010 10:11 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

I'm sitting the best-ever defensive shortstop.

HanRam and Reyes. On my dream team, everyone contributes offensively.

Zvon
May 27 2010 10:17 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

I'm one of the Rollins votes.

Ya gotta pick Ozzie and Rollins MVP gives him the edge over Reyes.
It was very painful to give him my vote.

But if I'm anything, I'm honest.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
May 27 2010 10:28 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

I give no players no credit for end-of-year accolades decided by votes, especially ones that Wrightfully belong to others.

G-Fafif
May 27 2010 10:37 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Edgy DC wrote:
I'm withholding my vote in protest until the Mets are added to Garry Templeton's resume.

You think it's an egregious oversight? Garry is so miffed that he ain't departin'. Hence, he'll be rejoining the Mets in Milwaukee Friday night.

Edgy DC
May 27 2010 10:43 PM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

Nice.

Actually, I went for Smith and Reyes. But I'm going to switch to Rollins, I think.

soupcan
May 28 2010 07:40 AM
Re: All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

I went with Bowa.

A generational thing I guess - he was just always the Phillie ss and always winning gold gloves.