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Oliver Perez is an asshole

Centerfield May 31 2010 09:36 AM

If ever there was a basis to boo a player: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/pla ... BOLzFSTx2K

Swan Swan H May 31 2010 09:43 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Rockin' Doc May 31 2010 10:12 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Perez is being totally selfish. He can not possibly be delussional as to think he is helping the team in even the most remote way. He is placing his himself and his desires above the well being of the team. I have no respect for such a selfish attitude and would never want someone like that on my team. Perez is quickly becoming one of my alltime least favorite Mets. Though, even he has a ways to go to catch Vince Coleman for the crown of biggest jerk I wish wasn't on the Mets.

DocTee May 31 2010 10:33 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

There has to be an underperforming clown on another team for whom we can swap Ollie, even if we must eat the lion's share of his contract. This rids us of the cancer without fueling fears that he 'figures it out after another squad signs him for the minimum" which is a foolish line of thinking anyway. It's like not wanting to dump your fat girlfriend, becasue "she might get in shape and be hot at some later point."

themetfairy May 31 2010 10:36 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

DocTee wrote: It's like not wanting to dump your fat girlfriend, becasue "she might get in shape and be hot at some later point." Thank goodness D-Dad is like that....

Zvon May 31 2010 10:42 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Thought this was a poll and was eager to vote.

metsmarathon May 31 2010 11:21 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

i'd much rather the mets swallow the remainder of his contract than choke on it. why the fuck is that such a hard concept for these multimillion dollar franchises to grasp?

metsguyinmichigan May 31 2010 11:36 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I wonder if this is all Ollie's decision, or is it Boras telling him to do this.

Zvon May 31 2010 11:46 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I wonder if this is all Ollie's decision, or is it Boras telling him to do this. Boras is to baseball what lawyers (in general) are to the world. (present company excluded, of course.)

Edgy DC May 31 2010 11:53 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I just see players stabbing a teammate in the back under the cowardly veil of anonymity. What else is there to learn? We know he's failed.

seawolf17 May 31 2010 12:00 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Edgy DC wrote: I just see players stabbing a teammate in the back under the cowardly veil of anonymity. Me too. Actually sounds like a pretty douchey thing to do. I'm not saying I can tell whether or not he's an asshole, and I don't know if I want him on the mound right now, but I'd much rather this team had a veteran leader or coach or manager who can take him aside and give him the what-for rather than bitching about him to the media.

batmagadanleadoff May 31 2010 12:20 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

And Ollie Perez isn't stabbing his teammates in the back? The team has been trying to reason with Perez for almost three weeks now. Maybe now it's time for drastic measures. This is a desperate situation, especially because the Mets are in contention. If the season were to end one week from today, the Mets would still have a mathematical chance at either first place or the wild card spot. You'd think that this franchise, at this place and time, having been eliminated on the last day of the season twice in the last three years understands that nothing should be squandered and that the games in May count just as much as the games in September.

Swan Swan H May 31 2010 12:25 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Edgy DC wrote: I just see players stabbing a teammate in the back under the cowardly veil of anonymity. What else is there to learn? We know he's failed. We have learned that teammates are as sick of this saga as many fans are. The issue is not his failure; that is a given. The issue is what he is willing to do about it, and what the Mets are ultimately going to do about it. This is not just backstabbing. This is causing other bullpenners to pitch additional innings, for the roster to be managed with a player short, and for a team that is within a couple of games of first place this could cost 24 guys a playoff spot because one guy is a selfish prick. I don't like the anonymity either, but this had to be said. If it gets Perez off the 25-man roster five minutes earlier, I say the end justifies the means. Anyway, do we know that no teammate has confronted Ollie about this? Manuel said that management has spoken to him on several occasions. I would think that he wouldn't give a fuck who spoke to him about this, not as long as Boras has his hand up Ollie's ass and is making his lips move. What needs to happen, a blanket party? Carter frags him in the shower?

Valadius May 31 2010 12:37 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Can we not trade Perez for Dontrelle Willis? I'm sure there are better sports psychologists in New York than anywhere else.

OlerudOwned May 31 2010 12:41 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Valadius wrote: Can we not trade Perez for Dontrelle Willis? I'm sure there are better sports psychologists in New York than anywhere else. I think the point of Detroit DFA'ing Willis was that they didn't want a roster spot to be used up on an essentially worthless player. The Tigers certainly aren't bashful about taking the cash hit to cut out a detrimental player. They did it last spring with Sheffield, too.

Rockin' Doc May 31 2010 12:58 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Olerud Owned wrote: I think the point of Detroit DFA'ing Willis was that they didn't want a roster spot to be used up on an essentially worthless player. The Tigers certainly aren't bashful about taking the cash hit to cut out a detrimental player. They did it last spring with Sheffield, too. Yeah but Detroit is a huge market team with extensive financial resources so they can afford to cut their loses and absorb the monetary hit. The Mets, playing in New York, simply don't have the same financial wherewithal as the Tigers. What? Um...never mind.

Ceetar May 31 2010 01:15 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I know I'm in the minority on this, and I've hashed it out elsewhere, but I don't believe 8 starts and sporadic relief appearances are enough to declare Ollie worthless and needing release. Especially after more than a year lay off since pitching healthily. I also think there have been better opportunities to at least sorta get Perez in there than Manuel has done. I think the Mets had a better chance on Saturday with Perez starting and Nieve relieving than vice-versa. I find it hard to believe major league players made those comments about a teammate, exactly like that. Again, my issue is with the long term plan the Mets seem to not have. If they're simply telling Perez "Get lost. go to the minors." I wouldn't have gone either. Now, if they're telling him "Go to the minors. Work on building your arm strength. We love our pitching coach down there, he'll help you. We'll see you in three weeks, work on your first pitch strikes." Or something along those lines. Really, I just hope they're framing it as a rehabilitation type thing as opposed to a demotion/release. Because fixing Perez back towards '07-'08 numbers is much more helpful than releasing him or promoting a scrub, and even if they found someone to sign/trade for, chances are Perez could put up better numbers long term than we can hope for out of Dickey, small sample-size aside. (And don't tell me he's unfixable. If you're a pitching coach, and you don't know what to do, you have no place on a major league team. If your boss, in any field, told you to do something and you said "I can't get that done." would he accept that?)

Edgy DC May 31 2010 01:18 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

batmagadanleadoff wrote: And Ollie Perez isn't stabbing his teammates in the back? Edgy DC wrote: What else is there to learn? We know he's failed.

Edgy DC May 31 2010 01:23 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Swan Swan H wrote: We have learned that teammates are as sick of this saga as many fans are. As for fans, you're not speaking for me. As for teammates, anonymous critics don't strike me as the ones I want to pin my hopes to either. The issue is not his failure; that is a given. The issue is what he is willing to do about it, and what the Mets are ultimately going to do about it. The issue of this thread is the content of the story. but this had to be said. Why? Nobody knew the facts of the situation until now? If it gets Perez off the 25-man roster five minutes earlier, I say the end justifies the means. Means and ends are convertible terms. This didn't serve any end but to weaken the team. And yeah, I believe the worthless tag is frustratingly over-simplistic and counterproductive. They're in a bad situation with their commitment to him and may well soon move to release him. Until then, the idea that smehow hating more is going to be our deliverance is disappointing.

Zvon May 31 2010 01:36 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Ceetar wrote: "Go to the minors. Work on building your arm strength. We love our pitching coach down there, he'll help you. We'll see you in three weeks, work on your first pitch strikes." Or something along those lines. If it went any other way I would be more than surprised Ceet. Might even be mortified. Inquiring minds need to know. Just the facts, mam.

batmagadanleadoff May 31 2010 01:44 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Edgy DC wrote: And Ollie Perez isn't stabbing his teammates in the back? Edgy DC wrote: What else is there to learn? We know he's failed. This isn't about learning. And the issue doesn't end once we know he's failed. Right now, he's not fit to pitch. Therefore he shouldn't be on the roster. Sometimes I think that you go so far out of your way to defend anything Mets, that you'd contrive to defend James Earl Ray if he did his deed as a member of the Mets organization. This doesn't mean that you're wrong and I'm right or that I'm wrong you're right, but that passionate Mets experience their fandom in ways and emotions as unique to each other as snowflakes and fingerprints. Edgy DC wrote: ...the idea that somehow hating more is going to be our deliverance is disappointing. But the hate is also a red herring and moreover, doesn't exist in a vacuum. Right now, Perez has as much right to a Mets 25 man-roster spot as Al Jackson.

Edgy DC May 31 2010 01:53 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

This isn't about learning. I reposted my comment to make clear that I am aware of the failures of Perez and that it would be preferable if he were in the minors. Perez certainly is responsible for the latter. And the issue doesn't end once we know he's failed. Right now, he's not fit to pitch. Therefore he shouldn't be on the roster. And none of that is for players to anonymously bitch to the media about. You want Ollie to shut up and do his job, so might that apply to everybody. No, I don't defend everything Mets. No, the issue isn't a red herring. And many members of the King family concluded that Ray was innocent. Nothing is so cut and dried, with villians in black hats and everybody against them good guys in white. This is a bad story and doesn't help the team. The Mets had a problem with Ollie yesterday. Now they have three problems.

batmagadanleadoff May 31 2010 02:06 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

So James Earl Ray gets defended after all, and Ollie is Jerry's fault.

Ceetar May 31 2010 02:11 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

As I understand it, you can't "guarantee" that you'll get a call up again right? So the Mets can say "we'll call Perez back up in 3 starts" and then just not. I wonder if they could guarantee it, contractually, if Boras would okay it knowing Perez won't likely get a ton of innings up in the majors in those weeks. I also wonder if the Mets are too scared of Boras to 'fake' a DL stint, which would basically force them to have to call him back up after a set time. They faked an injury with Maine (They did eventually find something, but when the DLd him it was just based on guesses and thoughts.). This really seems like the best and easiest option, lets Perez save face, gets him some reps in, and allows the Mets a couple more starts out of him to evaluate arm angle and mechanics and what not without hurting the team.) And Perez is still more valuable on this team than Gary Matthews Jr.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 31 2010 03:26 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Interesting fan-Rorschach thing here.

Ashie62 May 31 2010 04:23 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Just DFA the guy already. It isn't that hard for geezus sakes

Rockin' Doc May 31 2010 05:59 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

It seems to me, that at this point, it would be to Perez's advantage to accept an assignment to Buffalo. At least there, he gets the opportunity to pitch and try to earn his way back to the team. Perez however, seems to prefer whiling away his time in the bullpen where he will get few opportunities to try to earn his spot in the rotation back. If he has confidence in his abilities, he should welcome any opportunity to prove his value through his performance. I wonder if Ollie has some doubt that he could succeed in Buffalo and thereby earn a return to the Mets. He gets paid his ML salary either way, so why would he not welcome the opportunity to pitch rather than sit in the bullpen, where he is apparently viewed as a selfish pariah by some of his teammates?

bmfc1 May 31 2010 06:19 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

KBurkhardtSNY Oliver Perez just said again that he isn't going to the minors to work on his game. "Scott, this is Omar. Your client will not be on our major league roster after tonight's game. We've already called Buffalo and Pat Misch will be in a Mets uniform tomorrow night. Your client will not. It's your choice: either he is sent to Binghamton, where he can work his way back to the majors and possibly be a part of a special season, or he will be cut. It's your choice Scott and you have until the end of tonight's game to make that choice."

G-Fafif May 31 2010 06:23 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Rockin' Doc wrote: Perez is quickly becoming one of my alltime least favorite Mets. Though, even he has a ways to go to catch Vince Coleman for the crown of biggest jerk I wish wasn't on the Mets. Ollie's saving grace is that if he tossed firecrackers at fans in the parking lot, he wouldn't come close to blowing them up.

seawolf17 May 31 2010 06:35 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

bmfc1 wrote: KBurkhardtSNY Oliver Perez just said again that he isn't going to the minors to work on his game. "Scott, this is Omar. Your client will not be on our major league roster after tonight's game. We've already called Buffalo and Pat Misch will be in a Mets uniform tomorrow night. Your client will not. It's your choice: either he is sent to Binghamton, where he can work his way back to the majors and possibly be a part of a special season, or he will be cut. It's your choice Scott and you have until the end of tonight's game to make that choice." "Hey, Omar. Scott here. Hey, go eff yourself. Cut him; we don't care. He gets the same money either way, and if you cut him loose, then he's free to sign a deal with another team that might make him even more money down the road. So go right ahead, pal."

Ashie62 May 31 2010 06:46 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Waiter, Check please!

smg58 May 31 2010 06:49 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

G-Fafif wrote: Rockin' Doc wrote: Perez is quickly becoming one of my alltime least favorite Mets. Though, even he has a ways to go to catch Vince Coleman for the crown of biggest jerk I wish wasn't on the Mets. Ollie's saving grace is that if he tossed firecrackers at fans in the parking lot, he wouldn't come close to blowing them up. He'd blow up his own car.

smg58 May 31 2010 06:52 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

The options are to give him a serious opportunity to make a role for himself in the pen and then drop him if he fails, or just cut the crap and drop him now. Keeping him in limbo is a luxury the Mets can't afford.

batmagadanleadoff May 31 2010 06:58 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I hope that in the end, Ollie reconsiders and accepts some other assignment within the Mets organization -- and very soon. The shame of it is that Ollie's averaging 7.25 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Anyone that can strikeout major league hitters at that rate has the stuff to be a very effective pitcher at the highest level. Someone needs to fix Ollie, and test him against live batters in game situations, just not NY Mets games.

Ashie62 May 31 2010 07:20 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Sell Ollie to the Japan Swallows. He should fit right in.

Vince Coleman Firecracker May 31 2010 07:37 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Ashie62 wrote: Sell Ollie to the Japan Swallows. He should fit right in. But how much money should the Japan Swallows send to the America Mets?

Swan Swan H May 31 2010 07:52 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Edgy DC wrote: Swan Swan H wrote: We have learned that teammates are as sick of this saga as many fans are. As for fans, you're not speaking for me. As for teammates, anonymous critics don't strike me as the ones I want to pin my hopes to either Batmags has made all of the points I would have wished to, so I'm not going to rehash this mess, but for the love of Jesus Alou how does the phrase "as many fans are" constitute me putting words in your mouth? I didn't say "all" or even "most." It was a statement, not a roll call. If you don't think many fans are sick of Perez and his selfish act take a look at this thread, or the comments on Metsblog regarding the Perez saga. Many fans are indeed sick of this, and now we know that some of his teammates are as well. That was the point CF made by linking the article, and I haven't read anything here that disproves or, other than Ceetar reflexively blaming the whole mess on Manuel as expected, really disagrees. Perez squatting in a roster spot and refusing to go to the minors is the critical issue here; the only important issue, to my mind. You think the quotes themselves are a problem; I think they are a way to help alleviate the problem. If your issue is with the civility of discourse on this board regarding Perez, fair enough. Twenty-four guys are working pretty damned hard to win games, and one is, in my opinion, actively undermining them. I will repeat myself here - sucking is no sin, and guys who give maximum effort without results deserve support. Oliver Perez, until he refused to go to the minors and work out his issues, deserved my support. Once he made his decision that he would stay wherever he damn well felt like, he no longer did.

Vince Coleman Firecracker May 31 2010 08:16 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Swan Swan H wrote: ...take a look at this thread, or the comments on Metsblog... Looking at the comments on Metsblog is never a good idea, no matter the context.

Swan Swan H May 31 2010 08:26 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I'm not looking for quotes, just the feelings of many Mets fans.

Edgy DC May 31 2010 08:27 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

It was a statement, not a roll call. Well, I spoke for myself anyhow. I certainly don't mean to suggest that anybody is sticking words in my mouth. Only telling you where I'm at, nausea wise. I don't think the quotes are "the" problem. I think the players' choice to behave like two huge childish weenies is a problem, and not one that Oliver Perez created. I'm not going to rehash this mess I don't think there's a mess.

Fman99 May 31 2010 08:42 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Ashie62 wrote: Sell Ollie to the Japan Swallows. He should fit right in. Would the Swallows accept a guy who Sucks?

Swan Swan H May 31 2010 08:46 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Edgy DC wrote: It was a statement, not a roll call. Well, I spoke for myself anyhow. I certainly don't mean to suggest that anybody is sticking words in my mouth. Only telling you where I'm at, nausea wise. I don't think the quotes are "the" problem. I think the players' choice to behave like two huge childish weenies is a problem, and not one that Oliver Perez created. Would you be less disapproving if there were names attached to the quotes? Is the anonymity the sticking point here, or the fact that players are unhappy that they have to play, effectively, a man short for the foreseeable future, and are expressing that unhappiness?

Edgy DC May 31 2010 09:01 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Yes, I'd be less unhappy. Your second question presents me with a false choice however. Many Met fans were furious back in Al Leiter's and John Franco's day about the notion that players might be conducting back-channel campaigns to effect personnel decisions. I don't think it should then be celebrated if we find the decisions they lobby for to be agreeable.

batmagadanleadoff May 31 2010 09:54 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I wonder if it even matters what the anonymous Mets think? Is it even an issue as far as Perez is concerned? Isn't it enough that management wants to re-assign Perez? If you're questioning Ollie's anonymous teammates and also defending Ollie, then it seems to me (correct me if I'm mistaken) that you're saying that Ollie gets to decide his fate. But irrespective, what's the difference between Ollie's situation and a hypothetical scenario where some backup Met (who, let's suppose, can also block a re-assignment) refuses to come off the bench to pinch-hit because he's not starting enough games? This is out and out insubordination.

Fman99 May 31 2010 10:05 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

OlerudOwned May 31 2010 10:05 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I wonder if it even matters what the anonymous Mets think? Is it even an issue as far as Perez is concerned? Isn't it enough that management wants to re-assign Perez? If you're questioning Ollie's anonymous teammates and also defending Ollie, then it seems to me (correct me if I'm mistaken) that you're saying that Ollie gets to decide his fate. But irrespective, what's the difference between Ollie's situation and a hypothetical scenario where some backup Met (who, let's suppose, can also block a re-assignment) refuses to come off the bench to pinch-hit because he's not starting enough games? This is out and out insubordination. Eh, that doesn't seem like the same kind of scenario. As I understand it, Perez isn't refusing to pitch out of the bullpen, he's refusing to accept assignment to AAA. Which, while as seemingly silly and selfish and detrimental to the team as it may be, is still his right, contractually.

Fman99 May 31 2010 10:05 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Oops wrong thread, drunk.

Edgy DC May 31 2010 10:10 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

batmagadanleadoff wrote: IIf you're questioning Ollie's anonymous teammates and also defending Ollie, then it seems to me (correct me if I'm mistaken) that you're saying that Ollie gets to decide his fate. Of course that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is clear.

duan Jun 01 2010 05:56 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

thing is, someone needs to go to Oliver Perez' agent and present to him a cohesive plan that involves a net gain to his client. The person who needs to do that is Omar Minaya as he's the one who's signed him. If Omar can't come up with something that's going to end with a positive for Perez then we're at a dead end. You say Perez is being selfish by not going to the minors. He says, hang on a second, I signed a deal to be on a Major League roster, that's the promise I was given, I you don't want me on yours, there's people who'll have me on theirs (hey there would be if he only cost 450k) who'll believe in me and let me start and find my groove - the self same groove you were so f'ing thrilled about 2007. Am I better off having the indignity of staying in the Minor Leagues for the rest of the season or going to (lets just say) the Royals and strating 20 more games? Oliver just signed the contract he didn't force the mets to offer it, he's just forcing them to honour it. (FWIW - I can't believe that someone isn't able to work through the process with him in a convincing manner that'll allow him to retain dignity the obvious parallel is Traschel but lets not forget Roy Halladay went back to have a mechanical tune up earlier in his career too.)

seawolf17 Jun 01 2010 06:23 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I agree with duan. Good Ollie is so damn good when he's on. He just needs to find a way to harness that. I'm not ready to give up on him yet either; it just seems right now like all the Mets are doing is setting him up to fail.

metirish Jun 01 2010 06:56 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Agreed , Boras needs to be part of the solution on this.

Ceetar Jun 01 2010 07:02 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

seawolf17 wrote: I agree with duan. Good Ollie is so damn good when he's on. He just needs to find a way to harness that. I'm not ready to give up on him yet either; it just seems right now like all the Mets are doing is setting him up to fail. I suspect this as well, but I don't really know. none of us do. Could the not having one decision maker be causing half the problem here? As Duan said, Omar needs to present a plan that benefits both parties, as win-win. One that involves a set date of recall so it's more a rehab versus demotion situation. But Omar doesn't apparently have final authority on this. As for the anon players, if they really said those things that way, that's bad, mainly because they didn't say it to Perez first. It's just whiny and pathetic really. Stop snitching to the media. So much for this 'awesome' clubhouse they had right?

Centerfield Jun 01 2010 07:47 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Wow, I had no idea this would be such a controversial topic. It seems pretty straightforward to me. *Oliver Perez sucks. That's not his fault. That alone, doesn't make him an asshole. *Oliver Perez refuses to accept an assignment to the minor leagues, despite the fact that the team has asked him to do so. In doing so, he takes up a roster spot and renders it useless. He also undermines the best chance they have to get him to stop sucking, meaning the suck is likely to continue. This makes him a selfish asshole. *Oliver Perez has every right to decide his fate. This is obvious. But when he chooses the one that is self-serving, that makes him an asshole. *Some of his teammates have seen this and think he's an asshole. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, I agree with them. *Some of his teammates have seen this, think he's an asshole, and have expressed their feelings to the media anonymously. This is an asshole move too. They should either keep to themselves, or fess up and and take responsibility for their words. However, keep in mind that these teammates are being assholes in response to an asshole. And while these anonymous guys are assholes, they seem to have the team's interest in mind, while Perez is an asshole with only Perez in mind. To me, that makes the anonymous assholes much less of a problem than Oliver Asshole. *It makes much more sense to retain Oliver Asshole and hopes he works out his issues since he is so talented. That's what makes his refusal to accept a stint at the minors much more frustrating. *Releasing him does not send any message or hurt him in any way. In fact, you play right into Oliver Asshole and Boras's hands.

Rockin' Doc Jun 01 2010 08:02 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

What CF said.

attgig Jun 01 2010 09:40 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

i wonder if he's afraid that he'll just suck that bad in the minors, and thus, gets cut and nobody wants to touch him except the long island ducks... Everyone knows he can pitch as long as he doesn't lose control of himself... he's his own worst enemy and will continue to be so wherever he's pitching.

duan Jun 01 2010 10:00 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

put aside that the money is telephone numbers. you're contract with your employers states that you are going to be employed to do one thing. They say, we're not happy with how you're going and we're going to send you to Middle of Nowhere, New York State to see if you're still good enough. You say, I'm good enough, I just need time to work through it. They say, you're not. You say - you don't want me pay me what I'm owed and let me go. In some jobs they'd call it constructive dismissal. I'll give you an example, a journalist in an Irish national daily was their "showbiz" correspondent. It was a job he liked a lot, and he was on very good money. Things were going well- so well that rather then have him jumps ship, the Newspaper offered him a fixed term contract. Editor changed and he thought said 'showbiz' correspondent wasn't performing. Showbiz Corr tried to change his style, Editor still didn't like. What could editor do - he was paying this guy over 100k and his gig was that. I'll tell you what Editor could do. He could send him to do court reports in rural ireland, because the contract didn't specify the role. He knew that by doing this the Showbiz guy would have two options. Have himself demeaned and his career undermined or walk away. He walked away. Oliver Perez' union has negotiated a situation where you can't do what that Editor did when you sign a certain type of contract and to be honest, in the context of what those union members go through when they don't control their own labour situation I think it's more then fair.

Fman99 Jun 01 2010 10:05 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I just think he'd rather live the major league lifestyle than ride on buses and stay at the Best Western in Scranton. Just a hunch.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 01 2010 10:14 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Fman99 wrote: I just think he'd rather live the major league lifestyle than ride on buses and stay at the Best Western in Scranton. Just a hunch. You might be right. Though I'd bet that the Mets offered Ollie a cushie Florida gig where he's based in one city, doesn't travel outside of that locale and pitches against incoming teams. Or the same idea, but substitute Brooklyn for Florida. He wouldn't have to leave the city, and would pitch against Cyclone opponents. Here's a question for the forum: Some think that Ollie's agent, Scott Boras is behind Ollie's unwillingness to be re-assigned. If so, then why? What does Boras gain from the tactic? Or Ollie, for that matter?

attgig Jun 01 2010 10:16 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 01 2010 10:20 AM

so, going by the showbiz correspondent analogy of demeaning and underminding ollie's career, can ollie say... be put in as the catcher and have him catch dickey one batter, and then catch some fastballer? or if it's the major league lifestyle, if he's not promised nice hotel rooms in his contract, can they make his room be the best western across the street? or the locker room attendants maybe not do his laundry or accidently change the back of his jersey from perez to isuck? or how about the guys who think he's a ahole for not accepting a aaa assignment maybe screw with him? or heck, throw him out every single day, blow out his arm and then get insurance for his contract... i know, that's just mean...but...

duan Jun 01 2010 10:17 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

well this has already come up in Mr Rubin's chat. "Brian (NY, NY) Adam, Ollie Perez is a capitalist in a capitalist society acting in his own best interest, just like Fred Wilpon, Omar Minaya, and Derek Jeter. Going to the minors is not in his own best interest. Any capitalist who argues otherwise is a completely hypocrite, yes? Adam Rubin (11:57 AM) Fair point. Shame on the Mets for signing Oliver Perez to a three-year, $36 million contract. He has a CBA-bargained right not to go to the minors -- and if he doesn't want to, the Mets have the choice to release him or carry him on the roster. I will say Steve Trachsel a decade ago had success rediscovering himself in the minors. And based on some nuanced reporting, you can almost assume Scott Boras, Perez's agent, feels like Ollie might be better served in the minors for a little bit."

Ceetar Jun 01 2010 10:20 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Well supposedly all he has to do is hang out in sunny Florida, but I still don't know if the Mets guarenteed a return. Just like spring training means nothing, neither does extended spring training. It doesn't matter if the anonymous whiners have "the teams best interest" in mind. If that's the case, why aren't they advocating the release of Gary Matthews, or the firing of Jerry Manuel. Cause they like them better as a person? Players don't decide what's best for the team. And I still doubt it went down like that. I think most major league players would think Perez would be just fine. Just like they never believe they themselves could possibly fail, they don't think their teammates can either. They always have the talent and ability to win. err..what' is "nuanced reporting?" and why does what Steve Trachsel did a decade ago have any real relevance on Ollie? I'm sure I could give you dozens of examples where a guy struggled in the rotation, went to the bullpen or had a skipped start and found himself in the rotation again. Didn't Carlos Zambrano already go Rotation->Bullpen->Rotation this year?

duan Jun 01 2010 10:21 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

attgig wrote: so, going by the showbiz correspondent analogy of demeaning and underminding ollie's career, can ollie say... be put in as the catcher and have him catch dickey one batter, and then catch some fastballer? or if it's the major league lifestyle, if he's not promised nice hotel rooms in his contract, can they make his room be the best western across the street? or the locker room attendants maybe not do his laundry or accidently change the back of his jersey from perez to isuck? or how about the guys who think he's a ahole for not accepting a aaa assignment maybe screw with him? look I'm not arguing that Oliver Perez comes out of this well, I just think it's too simplistic to say "he should just accept going to AAA" as if it's a capital crime if he doesn't. I do worry that if Omar isn't able to make it happen there's something deeply fucked up in his relationship with Oliver Perez where he's not able to explain how it IS a good idea in a convincing enough matter, but we don't know what they're saying to each other either.

duan Jun 01 2010 10:23 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Ceetar wrote: err..what' is "nuanced reporting?" and why does what Steve Trachsel did a decade ago have any real relevance on Ollie? I'm sure I could give you dozens of examples where a guy struggled in the rotation, went to the bullpen or had a skipped start and found himself in the rotation again. Didn't Carlos Zambrano already go Rotation->Bullpen->Rotation this year? them be adam rubin's words, but I'd suggest that he's inferring that a few reporters have talked to Boras and going by what they've alluded to that off the record Boras has acknowledged that he's been trying to talk Oliver Perez into it. No idea whether that's true but that's what I'd read between the lines.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 01 2010 02:19 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Howie joins the pile-on. His behavior towards his employers and his teammates has morphed from desultory to criminal. He is stealing money, not because of his poor performance, but because he continues to refuse the Mets’ request to go down to the minor leagues to try and get straightened out.

metirish Jun 01 2010 02:22 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Howie joins the pile-on. His behavior towards his employers and his teammates has morphed from desultory to criminal. He is stealing money, not because of his poor performance, but because he continues to refuse the Mets’ request to go down to the minor leagues to try and get straightened out. I find it really helps if you read that in Howie's voice. .....

Chad Ochoseis Jun 01 2010 02:34 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Howie wrote: It’s clear that his own teammates are fed up with him and his overtly selfish ways New information, or just based on the two unnamed Met sources? Howie wrote: One quick travel note……going from Milwaukee to San Diego is like the part of the Wizard of Oz where the movie goes from black and white to color. Great cheap shot/non-sequitur, Howie. Milwaukee's a perfectly OK place.

themetfairy Jun 01 2010 02:38 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Howie wrote: One quick travel note……going from Milwaukee to San Diego is like the part of the Wizard of Oz where the movie goes from black and white to color. Great cheap shot/non-sequitur, Howie. Milwaukee's a perfectly OK place. Agreed. Not to dis San Diego, which is lovely, but I really enjoyed my visit to Milwaukee. A nice town with very knowledgeable baseball fans.

attgig Jun 01 2010 03:20 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

pete gammons is saying that boras requested a shrink for ollie.... http://www.metsblog.com/2010/06/01/news ... to-shrink/

Edgy DC Jun 01 2010 07:33 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Great cheap shot/non-sequitur, Howie. Milwaukee's a perfectly OK place. Unfortunately, pretty much the whole blog post is a cheap shot.

Rockin' Doc Jun 01 2010 07:56 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

attgig wrote: pete gammons is saying that boras requested a shrink for ollie.... http://www.metsblog.com/2010/06/01/news ... to-shrink/ Well, I know I have in the past referred to Perez as a million dollar talent with a ten cent head, but I have refrained from using that terminology since I know that Edgy (and likely some others) found it distasteful and cheap. It would appear that to at least some extent, Boras has some of the same feelings toward his client. A psychologist may help his control and confidence, but there is more to it than that in my opinion, as evidenced by his loss of velocity. I say set him up with the best sports psychologist in the Buffalo area while he works on his arm strength with the Bisons. If no one of sufficient credentials is acceptable to Boras, then get Perez with one from the New York City area between his starts in Buffalo.

bmfc1 Jun 02 2010 07:24 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Bob Klapisch--surprise--says that the Mets are at fault and that Boras is screwing them over as retribution for the Beltran mess from last winter: http://www.northjersey.com/sports/06021 ... Ollie.html

Edgy DC Jun 02 2010 07:29 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

That's nauseating. This whole thing is so aswirl in opininon stated as fact.

Ceetar Jun 02 2010 07:40 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Edgy DC wrote: That's nauseating. This whole thing is so aswirl in opininon stated as fact. Isn't most things regarding the Mets these days? And poorly researched. i'm still waiting for the article that talks about the sports pscyhatrist, compares Perez to Pelfrey, and predicts Perez going to him and coming back and going 10-1 down the stretch. You don't see a lot mentioning Warthen changing Perez's mechanics this offseason/Spring and how it may affect his velocity, or how he did the same with Maine who after blowing him off threw 3 Quality Starts. Where's the reporter-science telling how how Perez's surgery would have affected his velocity? I'm sure we could get some pitcher turned talking head to mimic a delivery in some studio and indicate something right? In fact, almost everything is reported as "get Perez out of here" and "how he's hurting the team." and "how it's best for the Mets if he's in Buffalo." funny, I thought it'd be best for the Mets if he performed like he did in '07-'08 like he was signed to do.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 02 2010 07:58 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Wow, that's horrible. And gee whiz, Klap says all those things about Boras without even calling him for a comment or to discuss those things. Life as a lazy columnist is pretty sweet, especially when you can take a event and just turn it through your template -- Mets are bad -- and crank out something like in a half hour, leaving the other 7.5 hours of the work day to dream about Derek Jeter's greatness.

bmfc1 Jun 02 2010 08:13 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

One of my favorite things about the CPF is MGIM's column critiques. MGIM, you should be an ombudsman.

Centerfield Jun 02 2010 08:24 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 02 2010 08:34 AM

That's a great article. His main points are: 1. The Mets suck. They are too gutless and cheap to cut Perez. If the Mets wanted to win, they'd cut him loose right now. 2. The Mets suck. This is their own fault. They shouldn't have pissed off Boras last winter about Beltran. 3. The Mets suck. They should have never signed Perez to such a big contract in the first place. 4. Perez sucks. He's dumb and has a dead arm. 5. Perez is smart. He knows he sucks and is daring Wilpon to fire him. 6. The Mets suck. They should never have signed Perez to such a big contract in the first place. 7. Wilpon should release him. It's having a bad effect on the other players and preventing them from winning. 8. The Mets suck. Releasing Perez won't change that.

bmfc1 Jun 02 2010 08:26 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

CF gets a BOC nomination for that.

bmfc1 Jun 02 2010 08:31 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

The Times says that the Mets want to resolve this by the weekend and that they're talking with Boras. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/sport ... ref=sports First class travel? Major league per diem? He's already making $12M per year and he'll be playing along side guys making about $3000/month. He'll be as popular with his Buffalo teammates as he is in NY. Key passages: In order to activate Niese, the Mets will have to take someone off the 25-man roster, and they desperately want that player to be Oliver Perez, one of three left-handers whacked around Monday in an 18-6 loss to the Padres. ... The Mets are working with Scott Boras, the agent for Perez, in the hopes that Perez will accept a temporary demotion by the weekend. General Manager Omar Minaya has been in contact with Boras, who is believed to be open to the idea of trying to help the Mets persuade Perez he should accept the assignment. The Mets are trying to make the move as painless as possible for Perez, offering certain perks that a minor leaguer normally would not get, including first-class travel and a major league per diem.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 02 2010 08:56 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Wow, that's horrible. And gee whiz, Klap says all those things about Boras without even calling him for a comment or to discuss those things. Life as a lazy columnist is pretty sweet, especially when you can take a event and just turn it through your template -- Mets are bad -- and crank out something like in a half hour, leaving the other 7.5 hours of the work day to dream about Derek Jeter's greatness. (Slow Klap)

Chad Ochoseis Jun 02 2010 09:23 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I strongly suspect that Klapisch, just in case, had an article in his top drawer that began as follows: The Mets threw $20 million down the toilet today. Jeff Wilpon, rather than give Ollie Perez a chance to work out his own problems, succumbed to pressure and exercised the nuclear option, cutting the pitcher who just two years ago went 3-0 with an 0.89 ERA against the Mets' two most feared rivals, the Yankees and Phillies. Perez has great stuff and still has time to become a top-flight major league pitcher. And, if he does, every win chalked up to him for some other team will be a reminder of how foolish and gutless the Mets were in cutting him rather than standing up to his critics. Etc., etc., etc.

TheOldMole Jun 02 2010 09:36 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

CF reads Klapisch so I don't have to. And I couldn't. Couldn't get halfway through.

MFS62 Jun 02 2010 09:38 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

The Mets can solve the Ollie situation and while they're at it, earn the undying gratitude of an entire nation. They can solve both problems by stuffing Ollie Perez in the leaking oil pipe in the gulf. Don't worry about how big the pipe is, I'm sure Ollie's ego is big enough to fill it. Later

Centerfield Jun 02 2010 09:41 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Chad Ochoseis wrote: I strongly suspect that Klapisch, just in case, had an article in his top drawer that began as follows: The Mets threw $20 million down the toilet today. Jeff Wilpon, rather than give Ollie Perez a chance to work out his own problems, succumbed to pressure and exercised the nuclear option, cutting the pitcher who just two years ago went 3-0 with an 0.89 ERA against the Mets' two most feared rivals, the Yankees and Phillies. Perez has great stuff and still has time to become a top-flight major league pitcher. And, if he does, every win chalked up to him for some other team will be a reminder of how foolish and gutless the Mets were in cutting him rather than standing up to his critics. Etc., etc., etc. The Mets, having been foolish enough to sign him to that ridiculous 3 year, $36 million contract, should have been honorable enough to stand behind him and help him through his struggle instead of cutting bait at the first sign of trouble. Pitchers bounce back all the time, it just takes time and patience. Look at how the Yankees were with Philip Hughes. If Hughes had been a Met, he would have been shuttled out ages ago. Instead, the Yankees are reaping the benefits of their loyalty. Of course, the Yankees could afford to be patient with Hughes, because they weren't dumb enough to give him a ridiculous 3 year, $36 million contract....

Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2010 01:42 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Although he hasn't pitched in what seems like forever, Oliver Perez still leads the Mets in walks. Oliver Perez 33 Mike Pelfrey 31 Johan Santana 30 John Maine 25 Hisanori Takahashi 20 Fernando Nieve 19 Jon Niese 19 Pedro Feliciano 14 Raul Valdes 13 Jenrry Mejia 13 Francisco Rodriguez 12 R. A. Dickey 10 Ryota Igarashi 9 Manny Acosta 8

metirish Jun 16 2010 01:45 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 16 2010 06:11 PM

Acosta with only 8 walks, he should pitch more often.

Zvon Jun 16 2010 03:25 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

From CBSsportsline:: Perez going to be out a while: The Daily News reports that Oliver Perez (knee tendinitis) is receiving treatment in Port St. Lucie, Fla., and has yet to begin his rehab. Perez is unlikely to return to the Mets when eligible on June 21. I'd love to see Ollie come back for us this season and do something good, anything good, from any pitching position or spot we put him in. But I really think our relationship has suffered permanent damage.

Fman99 Jun 17 2010 10:01 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Although he hasn't pitched in what seems like forever, Oliver Perez still leads the Mets in walks. Oliver Perez 33 Mike Pelfrey 31 Johan Santana 30 John Maine 25 Hisanori Takahashi 20 Fernando Nieve 19 Jon Niese 19 Pedro Feliciano 14 Raul Valdes 13 Jenrry Mejia 13 Francisco Rodriguez 12 R. A. Dickey 10 Ryota Igarashi 9 Manny Acosta 8 That is an amazing stat. Hasn't pitched in the majors since May 31st, hasn't started since May 14th.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 17 2010 10:13 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

It's all the more amazing for putting him just outside the top 10-- tied for 16th, 12 off your leader, superhuman base-giver-awayer Clayton Kershaw-- in the National League for walks allowed. (Again, he hasn't started for a month.)

Benjamin Grimm Jun 17 2010 10:14 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Maybe that's why he didn't want to go to the minors. He wanted to keep himself in the race for the NL lead in walks. (Does he get some kind of incentive bonus if he wins the walk title?)

Fman99 Jun 17 2010 12:06 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Maybe that's why he didn't want to go to the minors. He wanted to keep himself in the race for the NL lead in walks. (Does he get some kind of incentive bonus if he wins the walk title?)

Edgy DC Jun 22 2010 10:43 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Morgan Ensberg is sick. And he uses big red letters.

Zvon Jun 22 2010 12:49 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Edgy DC wrote: Morgan Ensberg is sick. And he uses big red letters. I love articles I totally agree with. The one's I don't agree with, I don't read. Hey, wait, wha?

metirish Jun 22 2010 01:53 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Morgan Ensberg is sick. And he uses big red letters. I love articles I totally agree with. The one's I don't agree with, I don't read. Hey, wait, wha? This is gold....it's a bizarre way to write an article . I can only imagine the dinner table at his house, him instructing his kids must be hilarious. http://morganensberg.wordpress.com/2010 ... res-1-out/ it's just weird, is this what he does now? Um , what would Morgan Ensberg do?

metirish Jun 22 2010 02:00 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

WOW , too funny http://morganensberg.wordpress.com/2010 ... -longoria/

Edgy DC Jun 22 2010 02:16 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

That's a good question. I enjoy having average Major League speed. Scenario: You are the runner on 2nd base and there is 1 out. The score is 3 to 3 and it is the 4th inning. A fly ball is hit to right center field and the right fielder will attempt to catch the ball. As a runner you have average Major League speed. If you choose to tag, you will be safe at 3rd base, but you will have to slide. The next batter up hits in 7th in your lineup and he is a career .250 hitter with 10 HR’s and 60 RBI’s. What do you do and why? I think I'm going to go for it.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 22 2010 02:20 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Why wouldn't you? You "know" you're going to be safe, so that will leave you on third base with two outs. You can score on a booted grounder, or a passed ball, or a wild pitch, or a balk. Why not take that base?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 22 2010 02:22 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Why wouldn't you? You "know" you're going to be safe, so that will leave you on third base with two outs. You can score on a booted grounder, or a passed ball, or a wild pitch, or a balk. Why not take that base? Because there's a wacky, unwritten rule about it?

Edgy DC Jun 22 2010 02:24 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I think he expected the reader to overthink and read past the guaranteed-to-be-safe line. Of course you go. The only reason not to is if this is the National League and they feel like walking both the seventh and eighth batters to get to the pitcher. But that's sort of a damn weak reason not to go.

HahnSolo Jun 23 2010 10:32 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Why would he throw in the "you'll have to slide" comment? Fear of injury?

Edgy DC Jun 23 2010 10:35 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I think it was misdirection. OE: Look at how many respondents don't seem to have read the guarantee. OEE: What seems to be in some degree of doubt is if the rightfielder will catch the ball.

Gwreck Jun 23 2010 10:37 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

I need more info about the quality of the rightfielder. Is it Ichiro or Francoeur out there?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 23 2010 10:47 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Who's pitching for the bad guys makes a great deal of difference, too. If he throws strikes, pitches to contact, it's almost immaterial whether you're on second or third with two out. If he's a guy who works around the zone, will waste a pitch or two, throws a severely-breaking curve or splitter, or is a knuckleballer... maybe being on third is more likely to yield some benefit.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 23 2010 10:53 AM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Is this the Oliver Perez is an Asshole thread?

Nymr83 Jun 29 2010 08:50 PM Re: Oliver Perez is an asshole

Perez will make a rehab start tommorow.