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Seaver 33

Edgy DC Jun 15 2010 08:36 AM

Just realized it is June 15.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2010 08:49 AM Re: Seaver 33

It never fails. Whenever I see that it's June 15, I think of Tom Seaver and Keith Hernandez. I guess if I was a few years older, I'd also think of Donn Clendenon.

G-Fafif Jun 15 2010 08:52 AM Re: Seaver 33

What, nobody thinks of Bruce Berenyi?

Ceetar Jun 15 2010 08:54 AM Re: Seaver 33

The silver lining of being too young to appreciate '86 is not being alive for that.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2010 08:56 AM Re: Seaver 33

Funny, I mostly just think of Seaver, with a dose of Kingman on the side.

G-Fafif Jun 15 2010 08:56 AM Re: Seaver 33

Ceetar wrote: The silver lining of being too young to appreciate '86 is not being alive for that. Better to have loved and lost, et al.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 15 2010 08:57 AM Re: Seaver 33

I am still emotionally scarred by this day. And today's been a shitty day so far, so it just fits in.

soupcan Jun 15 2010 09:01 AM Re: Seaver 33 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 15 2010 09:02 AM

Seaver for Zachry, Flynn, Henderson and Norman right? That sure as hell doesn't seem like a whole lot. Henderson came in second behind Dawson for ROY, Flynn won a Gold Glove, Zachry was good but couldn't stay healthy and Dan Norman didn't turn out to be much of anything. Seaver meanwhile wound up 21-6 that year (14-3 for the Reds) pitched a no-hitter for them (in '78?) and won a total of 75 games for them over about 5 seasons. He went on to garner 47 more wins after he left them (9 of those for the Mets in '83). Bad trade.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2010 09:01 AM Re: Seaver 33

For me it's more like equal parts Seaver and Hernandez. Maybe even a little bit more Keith than Tom. Anyway... Transactions: New York Mets purchased Gene Woodling from the Washington Senators on June 15, 1962. New York Mets purchased Bob Friend from the New York Yankees on June 15, 1966. New York Mets traded Kevin Collins, Steve Renko, Jay Carden and Dave Colon to the Montreal Expos for Donn Clendenon on June 15, 1969. New York Mets traded Tom Seaver to the Cincinnati Reds for Doug Flynn, Pat Zachry, Steve Henderson and Dan Norman on June 15, 1977. New York Mets traded Dave Kingman to the San Diego Padres for Bobby Valentine and Paul Siebert on June 15, 1977. New York Mets traded Mike Phillips to the St. Louis Cardinals for Joel Youngblood on June 15, 1977. New York Mets purchased Andy Hassler from the Boston Red Sox on June 15, 1979. New York Mets traded Bob Myrick and Mike Bruhert to the Texas Rangers for Dock Ellis on June 15, 1979. New York Mets traded Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez on June 15, 1983. New York Mets sold Mike Jorgensen to the Atlanta Braves on June 15, 1983. New York Mets traded Jay Tibbs, Eddie Williams and Matt Bullinger to the Cincinnati Reds for Bruce Berenyi on June 15, 1984.

G-Fafif Jun 15 2010 09:02 AM Re: Seaver 33

On the flip side, yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the Steve Henderson home run. While the concept of Seaver as a Red never, ever sat right, that one swing off Allen Ripley remains transcendent. Not worth Tom Frigging Seaver in a Reds uniform, but 6/14/80 is the least we can have to show for 6/15/77. There's not a lot of most to show for it.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2010 09:03 AM Re: Seaver 33

Funny that they haven't made a deal on this date since Berenyi on June 15, 1984. I think June 15 stayed a deadline for a long time, like the interleague trading deadline or something. Speak to me, UMDB: New York Mets purchased Gene Woodling from the Washington Senators on June 15, 1962. New York Mets purchased Bob Friend from the New York Yankees on June 15, 1966. New York Mets traded Kevin Collins, Steve Renko, Jay Carden, and Dave Colon to the Montreal Expos for Donn Clendenon on June 15, 1969. New York Mets traded Tom Seaver to the Cincinnati Reds for Doug Flynn, Pat Zachry, Steve Henderson, and Dan Norman on June 15, 1977. New York Mets traded Dave Kingman to the San Diego Padres for Bobby Valentine and Paul Siebert on June 15, 1977. New York Mets traded Mike Phillips to the St. Louis Cardinals for Joel Youngblood on June 15, 1977. New York Mets purchased Andy Hassler from the Boston Red Sox on June 15, 1979. New York Mets traded Bob Myrick and Mike Bruhert to the Texas Rangers for Dock Ellis on June 15, 1979. New York Mets traded Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey to the St. Louis Cardinals for Keith Hernandez on June 15, 1983. New York Mets sold Mike Jorgensen to the Atlanta Braves on June 15, 1983. New York Mets traded Jay Tibbs, Eddie Williams and Matt Bullinger to the Cincinnati Reds for Bruce Berenyi on June 15, 1984.

G-Fafif Jun 15 2010 09:04 AM Re: Seaver 33

By 1989, July 31 was the deadline. Not sure when that changed. New basic agreement went into effect after the '85 season, though not sure if that was a factor.

soupcan Jun 15 2010 09:06 AM Re: Seaver 33

G-Fafif wrote: On the flip side, yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the Steve Henderson home run. While the concept of Seaver as a Red never, ever sat right, that one swing off Allen Ripley remains transcendent. Not worth Tom Frigging Seaver in a Reds uniform, but 6/14/80 is the least we can have to show for 6/15/77. There's not a lot of most to show for it. My most memorable Hendu Homer was - if I recall all of this correctly without looking it up - a 2-run shot off of Silvio Martinez at Shea in Martinez ML debut in 1979. The homerun was the only hit the Mets had that game as Silvio spun the complete game 1-hitter. I will now go to UMDB to see if I'm right...

MFS62 Jun 15 2010 09:07 AM Re: Seaver 33 Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 15 2010 09:10 AM

Yes, June 15th used to be the trading deadline. Trades were permitted after that date if the players were passed through waivers first. Later

G-Fafif Jun 15 2010 09:09 AM Re: Seaver 33

soupcan wrote: G-Fafif wrote: On the flip side, yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the Steve Henderson home run. While the concept of Seaver as a Red never, ever sat right, that one swing off Allen Ripley remains transcendent. Not worth Tom Frigging Seaver in a Reds uniform, but 6/14/80 is the least we can have to show for 6/15/77. There's not a lot of most to show for it. My most memorable Hendu Homer was - if I recall all of this correctly without looking it up - a 2-run shot off of Silvio Martinez at Shea in Martinez ML debut in 1979. The homerun was the only hit the Mets had that game as Silvio spun the complete game 1-hitter. I will now go to UMDB to see if I'm right... 1978, Memorial Day doubleheader. Mets were 23-24 entering the nightcap. Never got anywhere near .500 after Silvio (mother...).

soupcan Jun 15 2010 09:14 AM Re: Seaver 33

Yup - got the year wrong it was '78. It was a solo shot, not a 2-run bomb. The Mets did score 2 in that game, but I was right - the Hendu homer was the only hit. According to baseball-reference.com it was NOT Silvio's ML debut, it could have been his first start for the Cardinals though and he did go the distance. Okay so 32 years later I forgot some of the details but I was there and for the most part I got it right.

G-Fafif Jun 15 2010 09:19 AM Re: Seaver 33

I loved Steve Henderson and was truly fond of Doug Flynn. As Pat Zachry says 33 years later, however, he was the pitcher who was traded for Tom Seaver. Tough bar to clear. Dan Norman...I hear he's learning to switch-hit at Tidewater.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2010 09:23 AM Re: Seaver 33

I loved that nobody ever blamed Henduzackflynman for being the bounty in the unhappy trade.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2010 09:29 AM Re: Seaver 33

Yeah. Victor Zambrano was born too late.

soupcan Jun 15 2010 09:32 AM Re: Seaver 33

Edgy DC wrote: I loved that nobody ever blamed Henduzackflynman for being the bounty in the unhappy trade. Even as 10-13 year-olds we all understood exactly what happened and we blamed the right guy (Grant) not the wrong guys. In fact we embraced those 4 guys.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2010 09:34 AM Re: Seaver 33

We really did. We wanted them to become stars; we wanted the Seaver trade to turn out to be a good one. Things sure have changed, haven't they? I really think there's a connection between the advent of WFAN and the huge increase in fan angst.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 15 2010 09:38 AM Re: Seaver 33

soupcan wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I loved that nobody ever blamed Henduzackflynman for being the bounty in the unhappy trade. Even as 10-13 year-olds we all understood exactly what happened and we blamed the right guy (Grant) not the wrong guys. In fact we embraced those 4 guys. That's true! I put a 40 for Zachry on my Mets shirts after that, quickly adopting him as my favorite Met, because when you're 13 you must, at all times, have a favorite Met. He must have been worthy, I figured, because he was just traded for Tom Seaver, the greatest player in my little universe. And I forever argued that Henderson was screwed out of that ROY. Don't get me started on Dick Young.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 15 2010 09:48 AM Re: Seaver 33 Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 15 2010 09:52 AM

Seaver was brilliant in '77 -- even better than his last Cy Young season of '75. Sometimes, I try and rationalize the trade --unsuccessfully-- on grounds that keeping Seaver wouldn't of made any damn difference as far as the Mets went. I embraced Hendu, but not the other three. I still fondly remember Hendu's rookie season as magical. Other than Gooden, I can't remember any other Met rookie providing as many thrills as Hendu did, especially given that deteriorating context that was the '77 Mets. Like many others, (I assume) I mistakenly thought that Hendu was headed for super-stardom.

Frayed Knot Jun 15 2010 09:50 AM Re: Seaver 33

Never got anywhere near .500 after Silvio (mother...). I got this - even if no one else did.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 15 2010 09:55 AM Re: Seaver 33

Yes, I was a Henderson fan with strong hopes for Dan Norman's future awesomeness; but knew from the start that neither Flynn nor Zachry were gonna be real prizes. I mean, Zachry was OK and Flynn was a good fielder but that was the extent of it. It looked briefly like Henderson could be the Man but he never progressed from his freshman year.

Edgy DC Jun 15 2010 10:26 AM Re: Seaver 33

Henderson was a pretty complete hitter, but his power would disappear for four ugly months at a time. He had a good chance to be Gary Matthews if he could have turned a on a few more pitches a year like he did as a rookie. Played hard and hit the ball hard. Maybe a different batting coach might have figured him out. Goes down with Jason Isringhausen as Mets who started their careers with great half seasons that were as good as or better than any full seasons they subsequently put up.

dgwphotography Jun 15 2010 11:54 AM Re: Seaver 33

I remember today more for Keith than I do for Seaver, because the Seaver trade still hurts too damned much... I remember sitting in my dad's car in front of city hall, waiting for my mom to get out of work, and hearing the announcement that Flynn won the gold glove... A funny thing about that Hendu homer is seeing Fred Wilpon giving him a high five on the field in front of the Mets dugout...

themetfairy Jun 15 2010 12:35 PM Re: Seaver 33

It's Seaver Trade Day. It'll always be Seaver Trade Day....

Zvon Jun 15 2010 12:51 PM Re: Seaver 33

Frayed Knot wrote: Never got anywhere near .500 after Silvio (mother...). I got this - even if no one else did. I did too. It's official. I'm old.

Ashie62 Jun 15 2010 01:01 PM Re: Seaver 33

It is Tom Seaver trade day. Today it is mixed with the joy and pain of Tom throwing a no-no for the Reds.

themetfairy Jun 15 2010 01:03 PM Re: Seaver 33

The No Hitter was June 16, 1978.

Zvon Jun 15 2010 01:37 PM Re: Seaver 33

soupcan wrote: In fact we embraced those 4 guys. I did, in my own way. I've said here many times how I turned my back on the Mets til about the time Mookie came up, because of that trade. So publicly, in case Met management were monitoring my movements, I denounced the team and held voodoo rituals in respect to Charles Payson and Grant. Mr. Payson gave the reigns to Lorinda, who gave them to Grant. Many blame Ms. de Roulet, but I considered her just a middlewoman. Anyways, I still followed the Mets from a distance (moved from NYC in '75) secretly with all my heart and did root for these guys. Hendu and Flynn to a large extent. I saw myself in Flynn, the kind of player I figured I'd be if I ever made it to the bigs. All glove, and maybe more bat than Pete. And we kinda looked alike.