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Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Edgy DC Jun 18 2010 10:35 PM

I had the net crashing on me on and off throughout the game, and I honestly get distracted enough so I can't always distinguish between Howie and Wayne's voices, but he was... [list][*]making the same argument as last time Tak had a turn that he ultimately belongs in the pen when Maine comes back;[/*:m] [*]continually arguing that he hits a wall in the middle innings, even as he was pitching well, arguing that every poor pitch or batter reaching meant "this may be that wall we were talking about"; and[/*:m] [*]seemingly rooting for the Yankees to come back and make the game more of a nailbiter, being disappointed when Rodriguez got back down when the Mets rallied in the eighth, and being all excited when two Yankees reached against Raul Valdes.[/*:m][/list:u] He seems to have caught Bad Jerry Disease, believing that winning means (1) getting the bullpen settled, getting effective guys in all roles and pitching them in those roles, even at the expense of bringing ineffective starters into the rotation, and (2) getting the save. Try and enjoy a lead next time, Howie (or Wayne or whoever). We're in the midst of an awesome winning streak and sprint toward first place here.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 19 2010 04:53 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

So really, it's Howie or Wayne who's pissing you off, right? A few starts ago, when it looked like Takahashi may have been starting to falter, it made sense to at least think about having Maine bump him from the rotation. But he's righted himself, and he no more deserves to be bumped from the rotation than Dickey or Niese or Santana. The way I see it, Maine just has to start out in the pen. Then, if Takahashi or Dickey turn into pumpkins, (I mean that figuratively, by the way) you can consider Maine taking their place. I seem to recall Gary Cohen last night being critical of Jerry (and other managers) "managing to the save." He was arguing that Frankie should have started the ninth, even though it wasn't a save situation. Instead, Jerry waited for Valdes to make it dicey before bringing in Frankie.

G-Fafif Jun 19 2010 05:05 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

It does sound like more of a Howie/Wayne issue. But the untimely death of Gary Coleman has been distracting all of us, and some of us haven't moved past the stage of grief known as anger or "being pissed off a little." The use of "a little" is the tipoff here that this is displaced anger on behalf of someone who measured up to our expectations in every way but height. Let it go, man.

metirish Jun 19 2010 05:51 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Ojeda , who I have warmed up to was adamant that Takahashi stays in the rotation : how can you take him out?"....

Edgy DC Jun 19 2010 07:01 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

I too am adamant. But somebody (Gary? Wayne? Majkowski? Seinfeld? --- I was listening a lot last night to a fading signal on my alarm clock radio) thought otherwise last night, suggesting he was an important part of the bullpen formula, and that it's only a matter of time before he falters in this role he's less suited for. It's only a matter of time before we all falter.

metirish Jun 19 2010 07:06 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Gary brings it up every start too, Keith last night suggested that Manuel has a short leash with his starters and the last two times out Takahashi was pitching for his spot. It seems like a good problem to have though with Tak and Dickey.

G-Fafif Jun 19 2010 07:47 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

If Maine were reliable, Takahashi would be a boon to that bullpen. Yet Maine has yet to prove reliable and Takahashi is a boon to the rotation. I can understand the impulse to restore Hisanori to his previous role because he was so good in it, and the pen is no more than 3-1/2 men deep at the moment (depending on how/if/when Mejia is used) but he's got himself a new role. There's always gonna be an impulse, probably unfair, that the guys who surprise you as unexpected starters are eventually going to backslide. Terry Leach comes to mind in that context. Hunch: Maine won't be a Met by the All-Star break. Alternate hunch: We (I, anyway) wrote him off too soon and he'll pull a Bobby Jones circa 2000. But my first hunch is probably the one I'd go with. BTW, any reason Manny Acosta can't be up here?

Ceetar Jun 19 2010 07:54 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

metirish wrote: Gary brings it up every start too, Keith last night suggested that Manuel has a short leash with his starters and the last two times out Takahashi was pitching for his spot. It seems like a good problem to have though with Tak and Dickey. I heard that Wayne (I think it was Wayne) was talking about this. It's not wrong, but it's certainly not helpful. This is the logic that's been floating around since they acquired him really, about whether he's better in the bullpen, whether he can go deep into games, etc. Sometimes he's efficient and cruises, sometimes he's not. It seems like if teams that see him again, like the Yankees, are going to get more patient, he might not be able to fool them as easily for Ks. Still, if he's not going to give up any runs.. Manuel's had a short leash all season. We were only a couple starts in when he started proclaiming "we'll think about a rotation switch" after every Perez or Maine start. Even if they'd had a good start recently. It's really irrelevant right now. They're pitching well, you keep them. Maine gets another minor league start (Although I'd take an under 1 WHIP and a nearly 9 K/9 from John Maine for sure, even if that projects to him throwing 110 pitches in 6innings. I'm not exactly worrying right now about him throwing too many pitches and ruining his development after all..) and maybe even another after that. If the opportunity in the rotation doesn't open up, put him in the bullpen. If the opportunity doesn't open up I suspect we'll be in first place and padding it by then. I know guys like Lee are awesome and all, but if the starting pitching continues like this, there really isn't room in the rotation for another pitcher, from inside or outside the organization. And you don't overpay in prospects/money for a guy like Lee if you have 5 pitchers pitching well do you?

Edgy DC Jun 19 2010 09:02 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Sorry for conflating our broadcast voices, but I was real tired and frustrated from the net crashing and fully expecting another crash before submitting when I titled the post.

TheOldMole Jun 19 2010 09:04 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

We all got it coming, kid. I was a Tak-to-the-bullpen guy until last night -- have now seen the error of my ways.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 19 2010 09:13 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Wayne can be an idiot about this sort of matter; actually, I kind of expect that from him. But I swear Howie's been parroting the crap about the need for Taka in the bullpen of late, and doing so more frequently and vehemently than Wayne. It's frustrating and disappointing, like hearing an old, ostensibly open-minded friend all of a sudden spout something about questioning Obama's birth certificate or how these African animals need to quiet down during the World Cup.

Edgy DC Jun 19 2010 09:36 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

That's what I'm talking about.

smg58 Jun 19 2010 09:48 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

We can afford the luxury of using Takahashi in the pen when we have five better pitchers than him in the rotation. That time is not now, nor will it be when Maine comes off the DL. An excellent long reliever is less valuable than an adequate fifth starter, and so far Tak has been significantly better than adequate. Four of his six starts have been excellent, and one of the remaining two was unlucky. There is no present reason to think Maine can do better.

MFS62 Jun 19 2010 09:55 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Since we're talking about local announcers who are starting to get annoying, here's one who may be going the other way. Turned on the car this morning and WFAN was on. Francessa said (I paraphrase) "I was listening to the radio this morning. Yankee fans were calling in, complaining about Jose Reyes's excessive celebrations. But Joba Chamberlain does the same thing." Then, he admitted he was wrong in his prediction that the Yankees would hit Takahashi the second time they'd be seeing him. At that point I fainted, so I never heard what he said next. (Hadn't started moving yet.) Is he mellowing in his old age, is he finally being honest, or can we add "front running bastard" to the list of the other epithets we call him? Later

TheOldMole Jun 19 2010 10:20 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

I would be firmly opposed to saying anything good about Francesa.

MFS62 Jun 19 2010 10:30 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

TheOldMole wrote: I would be firmly opposed to saying anything good about Francesa. Even when he temporarily lapses into reality? Later

Ashie62 Jun 19 2010 10:59 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Takahashi is in the rotation today. John Maine is rehabbing. Maine goes in the bullpen and will likely have the opportunity to get as many innings as he can handle as a starter. As for Howie, Hagin, Fatcessa, who the hell are they anyway???

G-Fafif Jun 19 2010 11:54 AM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

MFS62 wrote: Francessa said (I paraphrase) "I was listening to the radio this morning. Yankee fans were calling in, complaining about Jose Reyes's excessive celebrations. But Joba Chamberlain does the same thing." Reyes has more reason to celebrate at the moment. But it's still early.

metirish Jun 19 2010 12:13 PM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Rumors are atwitter after Jerry's " I don't see him as a canidate for the bullpen" comment that Maine gets DFA'd after next rehab start.

seawolf17 Jun 19 2010 12:16 PM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I seem to recall Gary Cohen last night being critical of Jerry (and other managers) "managing to the save." He was arguing that Frankie should have started the ninth, even though it wasn't a save situation. Instead, Jerry waited for Valdes to make it dicey before bringing in Frankie. I remember Gary saying that, and agreed entirely. It was "managing to the save rule."

Edgy DC Jun 19 2010 01:25 PM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

I can live with leaving Rodriguez out of a 4-0 lead. I think of it as managing to the leverage of the situation. There's nothing wrong with saving Rodriguez for the rest of the series there.

Frayed Knot Jun 19 2010 02:39 PM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

I not only had no problem with Jerry not going to Frankie to start that inning but I would have had a problem had he done so. We can't ask him to go to the closer with 4 run leads, particularly after using the main set-up guy for two innings, and then complain that he over-uses the same pen guys all the time. The problem was the reliever he did choose - although that was at least arguable - plus the fact that he proceeded to put two of the first three guys he faced on base complicated by Frankie then putting his first guy on too.

Edgy DC Jun 19 2010 03:00 PM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

That's it. It wasn't too long ago that Billy Wagner failed to protect a four-run lead in a game against the Yankees while Met fans across the solar system argued that he shouldn't have been in the game in the first place.

G-Fafif Jun 19 2010 03:06 PM Re: Gary: Pissing Me off a Little

Not leaning on Frankie was fine. I was actually ridiculously distraught when David DP'd in the top of the ninth because I feared a four-run lead as insufficiently K-Proof had Jerry gone in that direction. But the choice of Valdes exposed how, as of last night, there was no modestly dependable option for that situation, not when none of them had been getting any work lately (stupid length-giving Mets starters). Iggy's inning today was an encouraging note in otherwise wan circumstances.