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Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 04 2010 07:20 AM

Let's blow up a small part of the Nation's Capital, what do you say.

Rockin' Doc Jul 04 2010 07:45 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Let's[/bigpurple]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 08:25 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Benjamin Grimm Jul 04 2010 09:01 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Wow, Gary Carter looks awful.

bmfc1 Jul 04 2010 09:02 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

METS: Pagan-CF Cora-2B Wright-3B Davis-1B Bay-LF Francoeur-RF Barajas-C Tejada-SS Takahashi-LHP Nationals: Morgan 8 Guzman 4 Zimmerman 5 Dunn 3 Willingham 7 Morse 9 Gonzalez 6 Nieves 2 Stammen 1

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 09:48 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Benjamin Grimm"]Wow, Gary Carter looks awful.

Just a little sun-dried-- he's still dynamite in a pasta salad.

Zvon Jul 04 2010 09:51 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Gwreck Jul 04 2010 09:53 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

So, ummm, Jose Reyes? Remember that guy? Plays a pretty good shortstop?

bmfc1 Jul 04 2010 10:09 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Jose's 5th game out and that means for the last 5 games, your back-up MI has been Fernando Tatis.

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2010 10:47 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Gwreck"]So, ummm, Jose Reyes? Remember that guy? Plays a pretty good shortstop?

Jerry's in-game quotes yesterday talked about Reyes looking rather Tuesday-ish

Jose's 5th game out and that means for the last 5 games, your back-up MI has been Fernando Tatis.

Considering that Tatis's role is as the 3rd backup middle infielder I'm not going to cry too much over this one.

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 11:14 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Well, he's been first of late.

Fman99 Jul 04 2010 11:30 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

At the game, 5 Guys, beer, sunshine and hopefully a Mets win. LGM!

Ashie62 Jul 04 2010 11:37 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

I'd feel better if Reyes was penciled in for Tuesday.

seawolf17 Jul 04 2010 11:37 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Gwreck":wj617w5r]So, ummm, Jose Reyes? Remember that guy? Plays a pretty good shortstop?[/quote:wj617w5r] They're saving him for the all-star game. "This Time It Counts," you know.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 11:41 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Fman99":2r3inlag]At the game, 5 Guys, beer, sunshine and hopefully a Mets win. LGM![/quote:2r3inlag] HELPFUL HINT: If you shake some Old Bay on your forehead, you'll give off a pleasant crab-type smell as you boil.

Number 6 Jul 04 2010 11:47 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Old Bay looking like New Bay.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 12:05 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 04 2010 12:07 PM

Angel half-smoked that one over short; he looks fuller of meaty goodness than yesterday.

G-Fafif Jul 04 2010 12:06 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Predictable person reaction to Bay's first-inning triple: "WHERE THE FUCK WAS THAT IN THE NINTH INNING YESTERDAY?" Not that K-Rod wouldn't have coughed up an insurance run lead either...or, more precisely, that Jerry wouldn't have left him in to do so.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 12:12 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Howie's been raising my blood pressure a bit when he calls the opposing team's at-bats; everything's hard-hit, and makes his voice jump a register. He's like the Reverse-Sterling.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 12:17 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

2 RUNS OF SOLID!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 12:30 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Howie and Wayne talking eighth-inning-guy again, and Tak walks the pitcher. My poor fucking ears.

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2010 12:44 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

How 'bout, instead of sitting on this lead while letting opportunities slide by, we bury these mutha-fuckas today so I can stop fretting and then go eat some of whatever animal my bro-in-law is smoking in his backyard?

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2010 12:54 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Frayed Knot":8c6b4zsu]How 'bout, instead of sitting on this lead while letting opportunities slide by, we bury these mutha-fuckas today so I can stop fretting and then go eat some of whatever animal my bro-in-law is smoking in his backyard?[/quote:8c6b4zsu] Bay doesn't just watch, he listens too.

themetfairy Jul 04 2010 12:58 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

OE - I misread the box score. Yay for Bay!

Benjamin Grimm Jul 04 2010 01:18 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Those white caps look silly combined with road grey uniforms. They should make white versions for the home team and grey for the visitors.

Gwreck Jul 04 2010 01:25 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":1nzztfoz]They should just wear their own damn hats.[/quote:1nzztfoz] Fixed it for you.

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 01:26 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

This is how much better we actually are than these guys. Stay out of the pen unless Tak makes it necessary, Jerry. Learn.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 01:40 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

It's necessary.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 04 2010 01:41 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

That's the eighth inning guy's fault.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 01:44 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Here's where the Maine-Taka/Ollie-Taka joint-starter idea would make the most sense. You can get Taka out after 5 and go to the "second starter" before damage is done without eating at the BP proper.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 01:51 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Tying run's on deck. IOW, it's K-Rod time!

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 02:01 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

I've known games that didn't take as long as that inning. I kid!

Number 6 Jul 04 2010 02:05 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Yeah! We be buntin'!

Ashie62 Jul 04 2010 02:07 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Uh oh, anti-Met Willie Harris enters the game.

Ashie62 Jul 04 2010 02:11 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

AN-HELL!

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 02:12 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Wayne Hagin announce that Lenny Harris was coming in. Willie, meanwhlie, did a good job cutting off Tatis' hit into the gap.

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2010 02:14 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

What can be better than 4-hour game on a 90+ DC day in July? ... one that you lose I guess. Still pissed off that we need this one just for a series split.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 02:21 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

POP QUIZ: These pitching/pinch-hit-for-pinch-hitter changes are being made because: A) Tyler Clippard has great career numbers against David Wright B) Fernando Tatis owns Sean Burnett C) Both managers have a one-dollar bet ("Looking good, Jerry!" "Feeling good, Jim!") on how many game attendees they can get to be treated for heatstroke by Nationals Park EMS workers D) They are just plain fucking with us

bmfc1 Jul 04 2010 02:28 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

A great question, LWFS. That's 3 days in a row we've had to watch this nonsense. Each time, Riggelman lost a reliever and Jerry lost a PH and the result was still a lefty/righty--righty/lefty matchup. Riggleman had to have known what Jerry would do (since they both micro-manage) so unless he wanted to take out his reliever, it was a pointless attempt to get a better matchup.

Number 6 Jul 04 2010 02:31 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

A 6 run lead is still not enough to trust our non-Pedro and non-Elmer relievers, I guess.

Number 6 Jul 04 2010 02:33 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Guess we can't trust our Pedro relievers, either.

bmfc1 Jul 04 2010 02:42 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Howie with a good point: Jerry used Feliciano again. Meanwhile, Nieve hasn't pitched in a week. If you can't trust him with a 6 run lead, then why is he on the team?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 02:43 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Rob the fans of our spare ti-ime... COMING BACK WITH MET HEEEEE-ELP! STUPID PITCHING CHANGES.COM!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 02:52 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="bmfc1"]Howie with a good point: Jerry used Feliciano again. Meanwhile, Nieve hasn't pitched in a week. If you can't trust him with a 6 run lead, then why is he on the team?

You just don't know Nieve like Jerry does, ignoramus.

Whereas K-Rod and every other reliever he inexplicably brings in inappropriately needs regular work, Nieve thrives on weeks of rest between appearances. Hell, Ferny thirsts for these gaps.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 04 2010 02:54 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Igarashi is just awful, isn't he?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 04 2010 02:57 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket":23e1p2xc]Igarashi is just awful, isn't he?[/quote:23e1p2xc] Like a shorter, far less douchey Farnsworth, it seems.

Zvon Jul 04 2010 03:15 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

What's the consensus? Is this lead safe?

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 03:15 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Jerry just issued a press release. Parnell, who was unworthy of the big leagues for the first half to the season, will henceforth pitch every game this season. Lead? Safe? No.

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 03:17 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Rodriguez is the last avaliable pitcher.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 04 2010 03:17 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 04 2010 03:18 PM

[bigpurple:2wgu21lh]un fucking believeable[/bigpurple:2wgu21lh]

Kong76 Jul 04 2010 03:18 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

This is almost comical ... here's Frankie!

Number 6 Jul 04 2010 03:18 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

This bullpen doesn't have the personnel to be as horribly mismanaged as it is.

Zvon Jul 04 2010 03:20 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

I got more extra ribs. Who wants em?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 04 2010 03:21 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Can't... watch... Can't... look away...

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 03:21 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Too believeable where I come from. Elmer Dessens has started 140 games in his career. You couldn't go for two innings from him?

Zvon Jul 04 2010 03:21 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

here, help yourself. Gotta run

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 03:21 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Benjamin Grimm":13jz9hgl]Can't... watch... Can't... look away...[/quote:13jz9hgl] That's why you have two eyes.

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 03:23 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

II

metsguyinmichigan Jul 04 2010 03:24 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

I confess. I'm afraid.

Gwreck Jul 04 2010 03:26 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Put it in the books!

metsguyinmichigan Jul 04 2010 03:27 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Ike says "Enough!"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 04 2010 03:27 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Now, to cook some big thick steaks and drink some ice cold beer.

Zvon Jul 04 2010 03:30 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

smg58 Jul 04 2010 03:34 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

If I'm Omar, I'd have called up a 7th reliever the minute the game ended. Then again, if I were Omar I'd have done that a week ago. I feel bad for Fernando Nieve. After being run into the ground the first month, Manuel appears to have forgotten that he exists. I get the feeling that Frankie needs somebody getting in his face on a fairly regular basis to get optimum results. Preferably not himself, and preferably not after an embarrassing implosion, but whatever gets him mad out there is OK with me.

Fman99 Jul 04 2010 03:48 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Woo boy, that was fun. We cooked and I marinated (in beer).

Edgy DC Jul 04 2010 04:15 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Number 6":33u9p8x6]This bullpen doesn't have the personnel to be as horribly mismanaged as it is.[/quote:33u9p8x6] If it doesn't, then no bullpen does. And I mos def don't think the problem is the number of available relievers.

G-Fafif Jul 04 2010 04:23 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Turns out it was just a mechanical flaw with Frankie: The bullpen phone works too well.

Ashie62 Jul 04 2010 06:47 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Fman99":1tu6dwm4]Woo boy, that was fun. We cooked and I marinated (in beer).[/quote:1tu6dwm4] New Avatar, very grown up!

Fman99 Jul 04 2010 08:01 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Ashie62":1yw0amur][quote="Fman99":1yw0amur]Woo boy, that was fun. We cooked and I marinated (in beer).[/quote:1yw0amur] New Avatar, very grown up![/quote:1yw0amur] Thanks Ashie. They do grow up quickly.

Fman99 Jul 04 2010 08:28 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Frayed Knot Jul 04 2010 08:48 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Fman99"]

Is it really true that he speaks softly and carries a big ... ?

batmagadanleadoff Jul 04 2010 09:33 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Head.

Number 6 Jul 04 2010 10:28 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Edgy DC":7gkbwqkn]If it doesn't, then no bullpen does.[/quote:7gkbwqkn] My point was that some bullpens have more or better resources that can probably make up for some amount of mismanagement. This bullpen, in my opinion, is of a middle-of-the-road quality and is managed exceedingly poorly. [quote="Edgy DC":7gkbwqkn]And I mos def don't think the problem is the number of available relievers.[/quote:7gkbwqkn] You mean it's not a roster-construction thing? If so, I agree. There are enough guys in the 'pen, but the few high quality resources are being, at best, ineffectively deployed, and at worst, run into the ground. Other potential resources are largely ignored. It's Torre-esque.

Edgy DC Jul 05 2010 07:39 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

Oh, I understand your point, but I really think more of our resources, and I think that the Reds nasty boys bullpen would flounder under this use. There are a few competing values that totally handcuff Jerry. 1) He seemingly loathes to use anyone except the guys he most trusts in close games. 2) He seemingly defines close games as anywhere from down by two to up by four (or up up by five with two runners on base). So when he finds the guys he trusts, he deploys them almost every day until they blow his trust. 3) He's afraid of using almost anybody for more than one inning, except perhaps a guy mopping up a blowout. Perhaps. 4) This again forces him to go to other pitchers daily. 5) He saves his shiny closer for one -inning save situations. This values the leverage of a three run lead with the basesx empty and one-three outs to go above that of tie. This is mathematically out there. 6) This again forces him to go to other pitchers daily. 7) He really never establishes the structure of his bullpen with guys who you look to for higher-leverage effectiveness on one end and guys you look to for longer appearances on the other, with two or three gradations in betweeen. It's pretty much "guys I trust" and "guys I don't." There obviously should be some evolution in the status of these guys as the season progresses, but with Jerry and those two categories, the evolution is daily and unstable. 8) The obsesson with the "eighth-inning guy," the "seventh-inning guy," and such is just such a shallow grasp. You need to look to these guys according to the leverage of the situation. The most desperate sitations may occur in the seventh. The most casual ones may occur in the ninth. 9) That thinking again feeds the thinking in number (3), and leads guys to one-inning (or shorter) appearances. 10) That thinking feeds the thinking in number (2), and leads guys to too frequent apperances. I tell you, no bullpen could flourish in these circumstances.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 05 2010 10:57 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

I don't necessarily have a problem with Jerry using "the guys he trusts" because, in essence, that's what every manager does. Whether Jerry is trusting the right guys, though, is another question. My biggest peeve is that K-Rod is being used almost exclusively in save situations. I get the sense that K-Rod's primary function is to accumulate saves rather than to put out the hottest and most dangerous fires. This is fine by me so long as the hottest fires happen to occur in save situations. But the two conditions (saves and fires) don't always overlap. K-Rod's misuse is creating a terrible domino reaction that's affecting the use of the other relievers.

Edgy DC Jul 05 2010 11:01 AM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

My issue is that "guys I trust" needs to be more nuanced and graded, rather than black and white. And the close games (anywhere from down two to up four) needs to be more nuanced and graded, rather than black and white.

Rockin' Doc Jul 05 2010 12:40 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

I agree with Edgy, Manuel needs to learn the shades of gray. For example, Manuel will go to Feliciano to face a left hander almost regardless of the score. It doesn't seem to matter whether the Mets trail by 2 runs, are tied, or up by 3 runs.

Zvon Jul 05 2010 01:18 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="batmagadanleadoff":3swxwcsj]K-Rod's misuse is creating a terrible domino reaction that's affecting the use of the other relievers.[/quote:3swxwcsj] This strikes a seriously resonant chord with me. And I wouldn't say misuse. But I get this feeling that K-Rod is the center of that universe and everything is done around him. And maybe that's as it should be, these days. I dunno. I personally don't think so. But I'm old school where the likes of a Tug McGraw, a guy who was ready to do anything, put out any fire, whether it was a brush fire, or a blazing inferno, was an asset to a team far more than a guy who was put on a shelf and taken down for an inning.

Number 6 Jul 05 2010 04:59 PM Re: Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[quote="Edgy DC":kh0eyt5i]I tell you, no bullpen could flourish in these circumstances.[/quote:kh0eyt5i] I agree. I think there are degrees to that, but it's mostly semantics. Good talent can often cover up for strategic mistakes, but as you suggest, only to a point. And that was a really great, head-nodding run-down of Jerry's bullpen (mis)management, to the point where it might be good to call out numbers in the future. I would also add that his "trust," and the desire to give guys innings-long roles, can often overwhelm good situational usage, especially in the case of Feliciano. It is playing with fire to line Pedro up to pitch to multiple righties in an inning, or in high-leverage situations. He may argue that his options are limited, but again, the counter-argument is that he's artificially limiting his options.