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Old Skool 'Pool

Edgy DC Jul 01 2010 07:57 AM

New to themetfairy's family collection is this Kranepool autographed photo of him presenting Roberto Clemente with his 3,000th, and ultimate, hit: Very nice. Was Three Rivers orignally a natural surface park?

HahnSolo Jul 01 2010 08:26 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Awesome photo. Three Rivers was always astroturf. That is definitely the Three Rivers outfield fence. I posted a question about this on TMF's facebook page. Clemente's final hit was a double (confirmed by Retrosheet). Doesn't it appear that Clemente is standing on first base? Or is that not the first base line in the foreground? I can't think of any other reason for Eddie to be handing the ball to Clemente, other than for his 3000th hit. But if he's on first base, it's not that hit. And if it is his 3000th hit, and he's on second base, why would the first baseman be handing him the ball? Somebody crank up the Mystery Machine.

Diamond Dad Jul 01 2010 08:58 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

It's an interesting mystery. Kranepool is certainly playing defense (he's got a glove on) and Clemente looks to be "on base." It could be that after the 3000th hit there was a stoppage of play and if the ball was thrown back into the infield Kranepool may well have been the cut-off man and had the ball, so Clemente could have walked over to first base to receive the ball (along with a standing ovation and perhaps some other ceremony). But, it does look for all the world like he's standing safe at first base with his foot on the bag. If only there were video of the event available on you-tube . . . DD

HahnSolo Jul 01 2010 09:19 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

This photo: Purports to show the ump handing Clemente the ball following #3000. The uniform does seem to be a match from the Kranepool photo, though. It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

Edgy DC Jul 01 2010 09:25 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

HahnSolo wrote: Three Rivers was always astroturf. According to Wikipedia, that's a surface called Tartanturf, which covered the playing field from 1970-1982, and was repelaced by Astroturf. I'm not sure how meaningful the difference is, and it's hard to tell in the graininess of the b/w photo, but it looked like a higher cut to the blade than the shaved surface I recall, as well as more dirt around them than just a sliding pit. There also seemed to be daylight under Clemente's foot which suggested to me cleated shoes. As for the shadow above, that looks like an African-descended player in centerfield (though it may just be a shadow), walking with Willie Mays' late-career world-weary gait. The very white Dave Schneck should be our centerfielder. OE: He also appears to be searching for chew in his pockets.

Edgy DC Jul 01 2010 09:28 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

No much chance that's Willie. He was out of the lineup after September 7, save for one game in Chicago.

HahnSolo Jul 01 2010 09:28 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Yeah, I meant Artificial Turf...I can never tell the difference. Possibly that's Cleon heading back to left field?

Met Hunter Jul 01 2010 09:31 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

The ump appears to be HOFer Doug Harvey, who was the second base ump in that game.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 01 2010 09:36 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

HahnSolo wrote: Yeah, I meant Artificial Turf...I can never tell the difference. Possibly that's Cleon heading back to left field? Nah. Milner?

metsmarathon Jul 01 2010 09:37 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

could it be that kranepool is retrieving the ball from clemente, to deliver it to his clubhouse or first base coach?

Farmer Ted Jul 01 2010 09:42 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Bobby C didn't seem too thrilled to be getting anything from Ed.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 01 2010 09:45 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Farmer Ted wrote: Bobby C didn't seem too thrilled to be getting anything from Ed. "See, Bob? I signed it, 'Always remember this day-- keep in touch! --Eddie.' So's you can remember, got it?"

Diamond Dad Jul 01 2010 10:05 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

There is a smudge/spot on Clemente's hat in both pictures, and the uniform seems to be the same in both. It's possible that somebody posed Kranepool and Clemente for that picture either right after the actual event, or later in the game (or even after the game) at first base. It does seem from facial expressions like neither player is very excited by the moment!

Edgy DC Jul 01 2010 10:10 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

it looks like a miserable day, with the first place Buccos playing out the string, everybody in long sleeves and the ump turning his collar up. A whopping 13,117 fans on hand to see the first-place Pirates and their history-making hall-of-Fame-bound righfielder.

Diamond Dad Jul 01 2010 10:21 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 01 2010 11:21 AM

This picture turns up everywhere from that day -- Clemente doffing his cap to the crowd from second base OE -- someday I'll learn how to embed images in posts . . .

themetfairy Jul 01 2010 10:44 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Diamond Dad wrote: This picture turns up everywhere from that day -- Clemente doffing his cap to the crowd from second base OE -- someday I'll learn how to embed images in posts . . . Send me the link and I'll take care of it.

soupcan Jul 01 2010 11:33 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Check it though - little turtleneck peeking out from Clemente in the first & second photos. Not so in the Kranepool pic.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 01 2010 11:36 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

This kind of stuff is fun. It's like baseball archeology, or something.

Farmer Ted Jul 01 2010 11:52 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Someone needs to call Ed.

Diamond Dad Jul 01 2010 11:54 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

You're right about the black shirt under the uniform. Hmm. Could the picture have been a re-staging the next day? Perhaps we need to find Mr. Kranepool and ask him . . .

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 01 2010 11:55 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Benjamin Grimm wrote: This kind of stuff is fun. It's like baseball archeology, or something. "That ball doesn't belong to you-- it belongs in a MUSEUM!"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 01 2010 11:57 AM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

I think this may have been Clemente's 2999th career hit. Kranepool is saying, "Take it, Bobby. You never know if you'll get killed in plane crash or something and never get another opportunity."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 01 2010 12:00 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

No other hits in the Met series-- just a two-bagger named "3000." 2000 was against the Cubs, years back. 1000's just right out. OE: ACTUALLY, no other hits against the Mets that year in Pittsburgh; he was out of the lineup during the other trips.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 01 2010 01:34 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Matlack is a minor league instructor for the Tigers, and I believe he's based in Lakeland. I looked for an e-mail address somewhere in their site but failed. But he might know something about it.

G-Fafif Jul 01 2010 01:35 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

"Now that we've picked you off first, Clemente, I dare you to try to pull the ball out of my hand. Can't do it, can ya? METS RULE!"

Edgy DC Jul 01 2010 01:36 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

You're a credentialed reporter. Just call the clubhouse.

Met Hunter Jul 01 2010 03:20 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

A great moment spoiled by great detective work. Eddie was probably getting Roberto to sign it for him with the hope that he could someday, somehow, figure a way to sell it from his den.

themetfairy Jul 01 2010 03:32 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

A posed moment explains just how perfectly positioned the ball is between their hands.

Nymr83 Jul 01 2010 03:48 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

The uniform does seem to be a match from the Kranepool photo it looks like he's wearing a different hat or maybe a batting helmet in the umpire photo, but not in the kranepool photo. the brim isn't a different shade than the top of the hat in that photo as it is in the other.

themetfairy Jul 05 2010 02:40 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

I was just watching the 1978 Mets Weekly on DVR. FWIW, after Pete Rose broke Tommy Holmes' hits record, there were a lot of people posing for pix with Pete and that ball.

themetfairy Jul 06 2010 12:41 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

I just got a return phone call from the auction house. Take it with a grain of salt, or perhaps a shaker.... The woman on the phone said that they called Kranepool to ask him about the photo. Yes, Clemente's hit was a double (as we all knew). He claims that he was backing up the play, and that he was handing Clemente the ball. He also claims that this was on second base, not first.

Diamond Dad Jul 06 2010 12:45 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

That only goes to show you that you can never trust the auction house . . . There is no way that they reached out and spoke to Kranepool about that so quickly. There's a photo of the umpire retrieving the ball and handing it to Clemente, so Eddie backing up the play is conclusively false, and that's not second base he's standing on. Regardless, it really is Ed and Roberto, and it really was signed by Ed. Beyond that, who the hell knows. (I think the mystery surrounding the picture now makes it even more interesting than if it were the spontaneous event itself!)

themetfairy Jul 06 2010 12:57 PM Re: Old Skool 'Pool

Considering the price you paid, it was worth it for the story ;) But I'm actually willing to believe that they spoke to Kranepool. It's a Long Island-based auction house, and apparently he signs a lot of stuff for them. Now whether Krane's memory is on point this many years later is another story....