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Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

metsguyinmichigan Jul 05 2010 12:55 PM

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/columns/story?columnist=matthews_wallace&id=5352760 He's making the case for putting Steinbrenner in the Hall of Fame. I think the Winfield incident alone disqualifies him. The repeated hirings of Billy Martin are a solid reason No. 2. There are too many owners who did not bring disgrace and shame to the sport who should be honored before George Steinbrenner.

Zvon Jul 05 2010 01:01 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

HAHAHAHA,.. I didnt even go to read this yet. The General in the Hall? Okay, I'll go with that... after Rose gets in.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 05 2010 01:08 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

I don't think he belongs either, but all those World Series titles will probably get him in.

Zvon Jul 05 2010 01:11 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

Zvon wrote: HAHAHAHA,.. I didnt even go to read this yet. The General in the Hall? Okay, I'll go with that... after Rose gets in. I take this back. Because someday Rose will get in. After he's dead, I would say. Like, the following day. No,not Steinbrenner. Never.

G-Fafif Jul 05 2010 01:26 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

Fill-in-name-of-owner transformed his franchise and led them to three/four (depending on how much credit you want to give him for 2009) more world championships than any other franchise during his tenure. Of course he goes into the Hall. We know different because GS is so despicable but it wouldn't surprise me. And who doesn't make a pilgrimage to Cooperstown to swoon over the plaque of an owner?

themetfairy Jul 05 2010 01:44 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

He'll build them a new wing; they'll let him in to occupy it....

metirish Jul 05 2010 02:13 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

Bill Madden is kicking himself for not getting his article out sooner.

metirish Jul 05 2010 02:27 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

I didn't bother to read Wally's article , I did read the first paragraph. Does the Winfield/Spira thing not keep him out?..integrity and all that .

Frayed Knot Jul 05 2010 02:32 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

Was hearing some comparisons between George (b July 4, 1930*) and Al Davis (b. July 4, 1929) over this past weekend. Maybe the best point I heard was that Davis - at least before he became a crazy old fool - worked towards the betterment of his whole league during his time as a coach, innovator, owner, commissioner (AFL), and worked to bring about the NFL/AFL merger (well, he wasn't thrilled with it but played nicely for a while once he realized HE wasn't going to run the whole show). All that as opposed to St. George whose Yanquis have long acted as if the rest of MLB was beneath them to the point of bucking whatever steps the league was taking unless such moves benefitted [$$] them directly. And while the argument about how the Yanx do indeed enrich the rest of the league is true that happened despite them, not because of them. * and just for the heck of it, has anyone besides me ever wondered about the authenticity of this birth date? I mean it's certainly possible that it's real and I have no evidence to suggest otherwise -- but folks have been known to lie about birth specifics for image reasons - Hollywood & politicians mostly but others as well - and for a guy who has been known to bullshit aplenty and also likes to act as if he invented patriotism it's not a big stretch to think that that's a fudged date.

RealityChuck Jul 05 2010 02:33 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

Charlie Finlay is a better choice.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 05 2010 03:55 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

Marvin Miller, better yet.

Ashie62 Jul 05 2010 05:05 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

RealityChuck wrote: Charlie Finlay is a better choice. Yup, Bll Veeck also.

Edgy DC Jul 05 2010 07:39 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

George Steinbrenner will not be at Yankee Stadium for the commemoration of his 80th birthday Sunday. Great lede! I'm hooked! But his fingerprints will be all over the place, from the seven World Championship trophies on display in the lobby They only mark championships won during his tenure now? ...to the outrageous prices at the concession stands to the unforgiving attitudes of the people in the exorbitantly priced seats. This is a legacy? The $1.5 billion ballpark at the corner of River Ave. and 161st St. in the Bronx stands as a monument to the man who built it... OK, he didn't lay a brick or drive in a single finishing nail, so this is pure --- but cliched --- poetic flourish. He did... what exactly? Begin the process of extorting money that ended with the Yankees and Michael Bloomberg constructing an illusion achieved through precision language to suggest that the Yankees paid their own way? ...and you couldn't possibly purport to tell the story of the New York Yankees without prominent mention of the name George M. Steinbrenner III, ... Yes, but it would be a terrbile terrible story. ...and probably in the lead. That's patentedly riduculous, but if he were in the lead (?!) why would this article be necessary? He is identified as much with the success of this team as Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle and Jeter. Quick question, which of these are great ballplayers, and which is a punch line. "He's done the impossible," said Yankees GM Brian Cashman. "He took an organization with the history of the New York Yankees and improved upon it. He took one of the world's greatest brands and made it better." Now, there's a disinterested source. Way to get the story, Scoop! To understand the impact Steinbrenner has had on this franchise, consider this: If LeBron James were a baseball player, would there be any question of where he would wind up playing? He signs big shot mercenaries for the sake of success through addictive ostentatious acquistiveness, helping spread ugly American values of the rich taking from the creative and the hardworking. All it's served to do is make the practice of better American values of developing your own resources through creativity and hardwork into dis-spiriting drudgery. Big. Fucking. Whoop. That doesn't make him Mickey Mantle. It makes him Disney, Trump, Time Warner. And yet, asks Bill Madden, author of "Steinbrenner: The Last Lion of Baseball," "Could you write the definitive history of baseball without prominently mentioning George Steinbrenner?" Heavens, no! Could you write the definitive history of Hollywood without mentioning Charles Manson? Well, Major League Baseball is trying its best to do just that at its own repository of the game's history. The guy was on the board of the Hall of Fame for two decades, wasn't he? Steinbrenner is in declining health and by the admission of his own lieutenants, no longer capable or desirous of being involved in the day-to-day operation of his ballclub. He is, for all intents and purposes, retired, much more a part of Yankees history than of the team's future. And yet, the veterans committee of the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown sees no reason to commemorate the legacy of a man who is as much a part of its game's history as Abner Doubleday or Willie Mays. OK, one, I'm sure this is just bad writing, but the reason here goes, he's declining, therefore he belongs in the Hall of Fame. Great. But, two, catch that bullshit at the end. He's the equivelant of the greatest centerfielder of all time, and of an absolute myth with little or no connection to baseball at all. Plus (although Matthews may not no this), Doubleday is not an inductee of the Baseball Hall of Fame. In other words, I have no real problem with Steinbrenner's legacy being compared with that of Doubleday. In fact, the last two times the committee met to discuss and vote on the merits of a baseball executive for induction, the name George M. Steinbrenner III did not even appear on the ballot. Well, you're smarter than them all, I guess, what with the Doubleday comment. "It would be a great thing for him to get on while he's still alive," said a Yankees executive who requested anonymity. "But I think there might be some resentment among the other owners. If it's gonna get done, it's gonna take Bud to do this." Yes, by all means, subvert the due process and any semblance of a democratic system. Steinbrenner would be so proud. Bud, of course, is Bud Selig, the commissioner of baseball with whom Steinbrenner has had a curious love-hate relationship. But as a member of the Hall's board of directors, Selig ostensibly is just one man with one vote. Do the board of directors get votes? Anyhow, Selig is the man who pardoned Steinbrenner from a life sentence of banishment from baseball, despite merely being the interim commissioner. Let's not lament his treatment at the hands of Selig, to whom he merely owes his baseball life. The real power is held by the group of 12: three veteran baseball writers, two former players and -- here's where it gets sticky -- seven current executives, several of whom gladly pocket Steinbrenner's money as part of baseball's revenue-sharing plan but still, it is said, harbor resentment over the way the Yankees, and Steinbrenner, do business. Well, I too harbor this resentment. But he's not on the ballot, so let's not rush to question the motives of the voters. That deep-seated resentment reared its ugly head at the last vote in December 2009, when Marvin Miller, the pioneering head of the players' association who was pivotal in opening the floodgates for free agency, was denied election by two votes. Apples and oranges. Let's not lend dignity to your argument by conflating it with a rational one. One guy missed by two votes, the other isn't even on the ballot. Bud Selig and the Veterans Committee should put pettiness aside... Oh, I guess we're not questioning it all, but have them tried and convicted. Well done! ...and make it a priority to get George Steinbrenner in the Hall of Fame during his lifetime. Oh, it's a priority, now? And fuck the system, of course. Let's just tool that to get the results we want. Of the seven executives, only two voted for Miller, who, like Steinbrenner, represents a part of baseball history a lot of owners would like to forget, or act as if it never existed. Certainly, the Yankees' biography of Steinbrenner is not an entirely positive one. We all know the stories of bullying and bluster directed at everyone from Dave Winfield to the lowliest office clerk. We know about the felony conviction for illegal campaign contributions in 1973, and the two suspensions from baseball, the second for paying off a known gambler named Howie Spira. He was banned, not suspended. Those, as a Hall of Fame executive quite rightly pointed out to me, can be interpreted as violations of the "character, integrity and sportsmanship" portion of the Hall's entry qualifications, every bit as much as steroid usage can for a player. Actually more. And there's no doubt that the culture of Yankee Stadium, populated as it is on a daily basis by affluent fans with no tolerance for failure and little patience even for the slightest imperfection -- they begin to grumble if a Yankees pitcher goes to a 2-0 count -- is merely an extension of The Boss' own insatiable demands on his players and staff. Yeah, he's a mean douche and he spreads douchecraft. This isn't an unfortunate byproduct of his legacy. It is his legacy. And yes, there was a time when it looked as if The Boss was willing to sell out New York for a few more bucks, when he used the decaying neighborhood around Yankee Stadium as a threat to move his team to New Jersey if the city didn't help him move his team to a better part of town -- and then went and built his palace right across the street from the old stadium. What a douche! All of this is detailed in Madden's book, a meticulously researched and detailed biography that should serve as a reference book to the Steinbrenner Era for generations of baseball writers to come. And a clear argument for any sane and decent person or organization to divest themselves of any association with the man. As one of Madden's colleagues, who opposes Steinbrenner's inclusion in the Hall, said to me, "Bill wrote the best argument of all for keeping him out." We hardly needed it, Wallace, but I guess you do. Why don't you read it? And why don't you name this writer? But if we limited the Hall of Fame only to guys who were exemplary human beings, on and off the field, it would be a pretty empty place. And when you weigh all of his human failings against the ways in which Steinbrenner changed the game for everyone involved, it seems that his story is one that cannot be ignored if the definitive account of Major League Baseball is to be honestly presented. Oh, don't start with the moral equivelancy bullshit. These aren't pecadillos. He was little more than a bullyboy mobster who used baseball to legitimize his thugcraft. He, and Charlie Finley, another maverick owner spurned by the veterans committee, were the first to recognize that player free agency need not be a death sentence, but a transfusion for the teams willing to spend money. "Maverick" is spin. He wasn't a maverick. He was an asshole. And you're deliberately conflating his legacy with someone else's again. And getting Finley's completely wrong in the meantime. The main thing he had in common with Steinbrenner was he was a bully who comically liked to shoot himself in the foot. The dude was notoriously frugal. Selling the Yankees' TV rights to the MSG Network showed the rest of them how to maximize revenues without being solely dependent on ticket sales, and his decision to create his own regional network became a model that every other team in baseball has copied. One, bullshit. Two, whatever, put him in the Cable Business Hall of Fame. On his watch, as Yankees revenues skyrocketed, so did the fortunes of so-called small-market teams, which gladly pocket as much as $45 million a year of Yankees dough in the form of revenue-sharing and luxury tax. Teams like the Kansas City Royals, whose owner, David Glass, is a member of the veterans committee. Stop with the class warfare. You don't know what you're talking about, and you're smearing David Glass, insinuating that he's self-interestedly blackballing Steinbrenner, and the guy doesnt' deserve it. It is people like Glass, and Bill DeWitt of the St. Louis Cardinals, who apparently need to be convinced that the legacy of George Steinbrenner deserves to be preserved in Cooperstown. And people like me. But that's the system. You can make the argument that if Col. Jacob Ruppert, the man who changed the name of the New York Highlanders to the Yankees, put them in pinstripes and built the original Yankee Stadium isn't in the Hall, than neither should Steinbrenner. Yeah, I will. Steinbrenner shouldn't be in until after Ruppert. And Babe Herman. And or Ron Santo. And Tim Foli. And Mott the Hoople. But you don't compound mistakes of the past by making the same ones in the present or in the future. The veterans committee won't convene again to vote on a baseball executive until December 2011. George Steinbrenner's name not coming up in the discussion should not be allowed to happen again. It's no mistake, Col. Jake. George Steinbrenner will not be in the Bronx on Sunday to celebrate his 80th birthday. But by the time he marks number 81, they should be clearing some wall space for his plaque in Cooperstown. Yes, a Hall of Fame plaque should be a birthday present. Good grief. Wallace Matthews is a columnist for ESPNNewYork.com. And he keeps getting reposted here.

Fman99 Jul 05 2010 09:07 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

He should ABSOLUTELY be in the Hall of Fame.* *No, not Cooperstown. I was referring to the "Incontinent, Drooling and Shitting Yourself Due To Old Age and Outliving Your Involuntary Physiological Responses" Hall of Fame.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 05 2010 09:24 PM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

Preach on, preacherman. EdgyDC wrote: Wallace Matthews is a columnist for ESPNNewYork.com. And he keeps getting reposted here. Yeah, why is that? It's like when one spouse smells milk gone bad, and goes, "This is terrible." Then, after a pause... "Honey, smell this."

Frayed Knot Jul 06 2010 07:13 AM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

I can't remember is Matthews is one of those declared steroid absolutists - one who wants everyone who ever took them even once to be HoF-ineligible forever. He might not even have a vote now that I think about it but I'm sure he has an opinion he's been willing to shou ... I mean share. Point is, if he is, it seems to me that (him or anyone) wanting Steinbrenner in while taking the purity angle on players would be pretty hypocritical. Actual, multiple bans from the sport = OK, while infractions that could have resulted in temporary suspensions had there actually been rules against them at the time = unforgivable

MFS62 Jul 06 2010 07:54 AM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

themetfairy wrote: He'll build them a new wing; they'll let him in to occupy it.... This should be tougher than getting your stupid kid into an Ivy League school. Later

metsguyinmichigan Jul 06 2010 08:29 AM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

Ashie62 wrote: RealityChuck wrote: Charlie Finlay is a better choice. Yup, Bll Veeck also. And a darned good selection, I might add.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 06 2010 08:49 AM Re: Wallace Matthews is a, well, you know

MFS62 wrote: themetfairy wrote: He'll build them a new wing; they'll let him in to occupy it.... This should be tougher than getting your stupid kid into an Ivy League school. Later A bigger donation?