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World Cup Final IGT

Holland

7 votes

Spain

4 votes

Draw After 90 min

1 votes

Holland On Penalties

1 votes

Spain On Penalties

1 votes

metirish Jul 09 2010 10:36 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 09 2010 11:31 AM

Sunday is the Final , Holland V Spain . Two attack minded teams but not ones to forget defending either. My pick Holland 3 - Spain -2 Yeah , that's probably more a hope that anyting else. Paddy Power has some numbers To Win Holland - 11/4 Spain 11/10 Draw(90min) 11/5 How's things Paddy? Willets buddy who has yet to be wrong has this today Psychic octopus Paul predicts Spain to beat Holland in World Cup final

The Second Spitter Jul 09 2010 11:23 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

You should have chucked up a poll, dude.

metirish Jul 09 2010 11:31 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Done....thanks man

A Boy Named Seo Jul 09 2010 03:24 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Going w/ the octopus. Hope it's not penalties either way.

Frayed Knot Jul 09 2010 03:28 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

I chose Holland to win in regulation but that's mostly it's because that's what I want to see not what I think will happen (like I have any idea what's going to happen). The only down side here is that the Dutch women will be wearing too much clothing during the celebrations on account of the southern hemisphere winter.

The Second Spitter Jul 09 2010 09:11 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="Frayed Knot":2ol6q7cj]I chose Holland to win in regulation but that's mostly it's because that's what I want to see not what I think will happen[/quote:2ol6q7cj] This statement is me.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 10 2010 03:29 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

My brain says Spain; my hey-hey says team BJ.

metirish Jul 11 2010 02:29 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

A terrible first 90 minutes, piss poor.

metirish Jul 11 2010 03:06 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Spain are the WC Champions, they scored only 8 goals in the WC yet they could have scored a few today, they tried to win today, the Dutch tried not to lose.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 11 2010 03:11 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Spain deserved it. Dutch were awful thugs for much of it.

Ashie62 Jul 11 2010 03:55 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

I picked Spain because they won.

The Second Spitter Jul 11 2010 05:15 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="metirish":23njj7pb]Spain are the WC Champions, they scored only 8 goals in the WC yet they could have scored a few today, they tried to win today, the Dutch tried not to lose.[/quote:23njj7pb] A befitting finish to an awful, awful World Cup. This is the 8th World Cup I've watched live and by far the worst, even exceeding the dizzy depths of 1990. I could write an long editorial-style post, but quite frankly, if the players, referees and administrators can't be arsed, neither can I.

Frayed Knot Jul 11 2010 05:58 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Spain wins the WC with, what, something like 8 goals over 8 games? Not that that should be the ultimate criteria of how the whole cup went, but my lasting image of the final game (only saw part - NYM still take precedence) will be players going down and their hands raised up. Dutch seemed to not only be doing a lot of fouling but also a lot of complaining about fouling and/or complaining about being called for fouling. Landon Donovan throwing out the first pitch at LA Dodgers game tonight (like in 10 minutes). No word on whether he's going to use his hands.

Willets Point Jul 11 2010 09:37 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 11 2010 09:45 PM

Watched the extra time in a small pizza joint by Penn Station on Univision with the Hispanic pizza joint staff and a Buddhist monk. Nice atmosphere, disappointing result. Kind of bummed that another dull, defensive-minded team won the Cup. One of these days some manager is going to say "Fuck this" and put his team out in the classic Pyramid formation (2-3-5) and win. At least I hope.

The Second Spitter Jul 11 2010 09:43 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="Willets Point":377fb7wv]"Fuck this" and put his team out in the class Pyramid formation (2-3-5) and win. [/quote:377fb7wv] That would be Arsenal under Wenger, but he only plays it at home and against jobber teams.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 11 2010 09:45 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="The Second Spitter":368vumx0][quote="metirish":368vumx0]Spain are the WC Champions, they scored only 8 goals in the WC yet they could have scored a few today, they tried to win today, the Dutch tried not to lose.[/quote:368vumx0] A befitting finish to an awful, awful World Cup. This is the 8th World Cup I've watched live and by far the worst, even exceeding the dizzy depths of 1990. I could write an long editorial-style post, but quite frankly, if the players, referees and administrators can't be arsed, neither can I.[/quote:368vumx0] Well, heck, I enjoyed it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 11 2010 09:50 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

I didn't catch the ref's name, but he was pretty uniformly terrible, inserting himself into the game constantly, except for when he should have (a couple of blatant trips both ways in the box that he refused to pull the trigger). After handing out 4 yellow cards in a 10-15 minute span in the first half, he gave De Jong a mere yellow for a flying kung fu-kick "challenge" to Xabi Alonso's chest*, then proceeded to hand out 5-6 more cheap yellows in the beginning of the second half. Heltinga's first-- given out for David Villa's acting job-- was maybe the cheapest, and proved the costliest when he was sent off in extra time. T'was a grind-out win from Spain that they ultimately deserved, I guess. But it was mostly brutal to watch... and the officiating made sure of it. *

metirish Jul 12 2010 04:33 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Howard Webb.....a cop in England...supposedly the best ref from the EPL. Meanwhile No more all-European finals, thank you very much

The Second Spitter Jul 12 2010 04:48 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="metirish":2nhk8mnu]Howard Webb.....a cop in England...supposedly the best ref from the EPL[/quote:2nhk8mnu] Yeah, the same bloke who let the 2007 Carling Cup Final turn into an all-in-brawl.

metirish Jul 12 2010 10:58 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="John Cougar Lunchbucket":3gpau7zx][quote="The Second Spitter":3gpau7zx][quote="metirish":3gpau7zx]Spain are the WC Champions, they scored only 8 goals in the WC yet they could have scored a few today, they tried to win today, the Dutch tried not to lose.[/quote:3gpau7zx] A befitting finish to an awful, awful World Cup. This is the 8th World Cup I've watched live and by far the worst, even exceeding the dizzy depths of 1990. I could write an long editorial-style post, but quite frankly, if the players, referees and administrators can't be arsed, neither can I.[/quote:3gpau7zx] Well, heck, I enjoyed it.[/quote:3gpau7zx] More with bucket on this, there were some awful games and some awful officiating . Still, for me teams like Japan, Argentina , Germany, Paraguay and especially Uruguay lifted the whole tournament up. Spain were sublime at times . It is nowhere near the brilliance of France 98 but closer to that than Italy 1990 IMO. Plus it was a triumph for South Africa and I think they can be rightfully proud with a great showcasing of their country. The final was abysmal. Ruud Gullit was right when he remarked after the game that Holland were embarrassing .

The Second Spitter Jul 12 2010 04:59 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Maybe my opinion of this WC was skewed by the fact the 3 teams I was rooting for finished with a record of 2-4-3. 1990 had marginally less goals per match than this World Cup (2.21 v 2.30). Maybe if I was objective, I would rank the last 8 World Cups thus: 1986, 1998, 1982, 2002, 1994, 2006, 2010, 1990

metirish Jul 12 2010 05:06 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

1986, 1998, 1982, 2002, 1994, 2006, 2010, 1990 I'd agree with that I think, I can't jet the Republic of Ireland's participation in 1990/94 skew the fact that they were not good WC, 1990 especially so. It's a push between 98 and 82 for second spot, good list.

Frayed Knot Jul 12 2010 06:57 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

So has the World Cup - or the soccer world in general - ever given the thought of going to a 2-ref system? The NHL stubbornly stuck to a one-ref system for far too long, clinging to the idea that a single ref putting his stamp on the game is better than two possibly clashing over a too-loose or too-tight interpretation during a given game. In hockey, that system may have been more workable when the NHL was a six-team league and getting used to the rhythms and personality of no more than three refs (and the three refs knowing the tendencies of of barely 100 players) but that flew out the window during the massive expansion drive of several decades ago now and it took the league forever to catch up with the idea that the old way just wasn't working. In soccer, it just seems to me that the field is so damn large that one set of eyes - even if helped by the off-field assistants - can't possibly keep control of the whole field, especially for those fouls just behind the play and in front of the goal when the ref has to keep his eyes locked onto what's happening right around the ball.

The Second Spitter Jul 13 2010 08:51 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

From another forum: Three useful rules changes for the next World Cup. 1. The Mexican spray can. For those of you who don't follow the Mexican league, the referees each carry a little spray can which they use to draw a temporary line on the pitch at the point of the foul each time there is awarded a free kick somewhere in the vicinity of the penalty area. He/she then marks off 10 paces and draws another line, behind which the defenders must stand. 2. The Orange card.(or perhaps the Suarez card) To be issued on occasions when a defender(other than the keeper, of course) uses his/her hand on the goal line to prevent the ball from crossing the line. Since, the ref cannot know for certain whether the handball was intentional or not, let's make it easy on the refs and provide an orange card, which will mean: a. the goal is scored, and b. the offending player, is ejected for the rest of that game c. the offending player is suspended for the next game only if he/she has previously acquired a yellow card in the game. 3. Two additional referee assistants (or associate referees if you prefer) These two would stand behind the goals and determine whether or not a ball had crossed the goal line or the end line. This would be a cheaper solution than TV cameras, and would cover more situations.

Edgy DC Jul 13 2010 08:59 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

I have no problem with intentional handballs in the box. In a crisis, the defender under pressure is forced to make a snap judgement whether the 90%-ish certainty of a free kick is a better bet than the seemingly 90%-plus certainty of the current play being a goal. Strategic thinking has brought us intentional walks in baseball, intentional groundings in football, intentional personal fouls in baseball, intentional icing of the puck in hockey, and a world where strategically minded people have caluculated --- rightly or wrongly --- that incurring a penalty under the rules is preferble than letting the play go forward. If thes calculations are wrong, he looks foolish the next morning, but it doesn't make him a scoundrel.

Frayed Knot Jul 13 2010 10:11 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

I don't think it makes the guy a scoundrel, I just think you have to make the punishment fit the crime. At one point (during the 1950s I believe) the Braves had the bases loaded in a tie game in the 9th inning, at home with one out. A bouncer is hit to SS looking like a sure DP ball. Runner from 2nd base Joe Adcock sees what's going to happen so decides to grab the ball on his way by and heave it into the outfield. He's out but the DP is broken up and the Braves win the game. Baseball reacts to what happened by deciding that intentionally interfering with a batted ball means that not only is that runner out but so is the one behind him and any others are returned to the base from which they started.

Edgy DC Jul 13 2010 10:18 AM Re: World Cup Final IGT

I think a penalty kick is entirely appropriate. And an automatic goal and an ejection (as suggested) is inappropirate. I think guys squirming all over the field trying to draw penalties by clutching untraumatized body parts is far more offensive.

Frayed Knot Jul 13 2010 12:00 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="Edgy DC"]I think a penalty kick is entirely appropriate. And an automatic goal and an ejection (as suggested) is inappropirate.

When an illegal action takes away a sure goal, having the penalty be a more likely than not goal offers no deterrent in the same way that intentionally interfering with the batted ball used to in certain situations.

I think guys squirming all over the field trying to draw penalties by clutching untraumatized body parts is far more offensive.

So do I but that's a separate argument.

Edgy DC Jul 13 2010 12:18 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="Frayed Knot"][quote="Edgy DC"]I think a penalty kick is entirely appropriate. And an automatic goal and an ejection (as suggested) is inappropriate.

When an illegal action takes away a sure goal, having the penalty be a more likely than not goal offers no deterrent in the same way that intentionally interfering with the batted ball used to in certain situations.
Sure it does. You only have a split second to decide it is in fact a sure goal. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're not.

Number 6 Jul 13 2010 05:09 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="Edgy DC":193qudmm]I think guys squirming all over the field trying to draw penalties by clutching untraumatized body parts is far more offensive.[/quote:193qudmm] I was watching the post-game highlights on ESPN, and when they got to the play where Robben fought his way through contact on a breakaway at the top of the penalty area only to have his attempt blocked by the keeper, the announcers were apoplectic about how he should have gone down to draw the foul rather than try and fight through to get the goal. They acted as if this is a cardinal rule in the sport (I think McManaman said something like "everyone knows you need to go down here!"). Any sport where acting to draw a foul is strategically preferable to making the athletic play has a fundamental problem, in my eyes. Same reason (or one of them) why I don't tune in much to the NBA.

Willets Point Jul 13 2010 07:51 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Can get enough soccer so I'm watching USA vs. Sweden women's game. Hey, in less than a year there will be a World Cup the USA has a good chance of winning.

Frayed Knot Jul 13 2010 08:38 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

[quote="Number 6":1yr3okwd][quote="Edgy DC":1yr3okwd]I think guys squirming all over the field trying to draw penalties by clutching untraumatized body parts is far more offensive.[/quote:1yr3okwd] I was watching the post-game highlights on ESPN, and when they got to the play where Robben fought his way through contact on a breakaway at the top of the penalty area only to have his attempt blocked by the keeper, the announcers were apoplectic about how he should have gone down to draw the foul rather than try and fight through to get the goal. They acted as if this is a cardinal rule in the sport (I think McManaman said something like "everyone knows you need to go down here!"). Any sport where acting to draw a foul is strategically preferable to making the athletic play has a fundamental problem, in my eyes. Same reason (or one of them) why I don't tune in much to the NBA.[/quote:1yr3okwd] Of course flopping itself is supposed to be a foul, a card-worthy one if it's blatant enough. Maybe that one of those things that needs to be called more often and I bet it would be if a second set of eyes were out there.

Willets Point Jul 13 2010 08:40 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Diving is partly due to the fact that players feel they can't get calls on actual fouls without hamming it up, so an extra set of eyes seeing and calling the fouls may reduce the number of dives.

Number 6 Jul 13 2010 10:43 PM Re: World Cup Final IGT

Definitely. Obviously diving, hamming, and drawing fouls works, and so infrequently penalizes the diver/hammer/foul-drawer that the risk/reward proposition makes it tempting, then prevalent, and finally necessary just to keep up with the pace of the league. It's a game problem, not a player/team problem, despite what everyone says about the Italians. If another set of eyes on the field helps curtail it, or they start fining these guys ex post facto, whatever works you can sign me up.