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Wingman

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 09:51 AM

What are the principles of good practice in the field of wingmanship? Everything I know, I learned from Mike Damone, and I feel that's dreadfully out of date.

MFS62 Jul 15 2010 09:52 AM Re: Wingman Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 15 2010 10:00 AM

[quote="Edgy DC"]What are the principles of good practice in the field of wingmanship? Everything I know, I learned from Mike Damone, and I feel that's dreadfully out of date.

If you see an enemy aircraft approaching your partner's plane from behind, peel off and protect him.

Didn't you see Top Gun?

Later

themetfairy Jul 15 2010 10:00 AM Re: Wingman

As a married man, you shouldn't be anyone's wingman.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2010 10:05 AM Re: Wingman

Married men can be wingmen, TMF. It's just a matter of adjusting your capabilities-- "falling on the grenade," so to speak, is right out, for example. Some of the stuff that's helped me help others: 1) Always remember: this is in the service of your boy (or, less frequently, girl). Think like an interviewer: your aim is to highlight and reveal your boy; if the evening becomes about you, you've failed. 2) Consequently, your friend has first dibs in any group situation. 3) Be generous and outgoing. You're the maitre'd. Nobody likes a sullen maitre'd... even depressives. 4) Think like an improv comedian: adaptive, always listening, and encouraging. To every suggestion from your boy-- explicit or implicit, and especially in front of prospectives-- it's "Yes, and..." Being funny also helps. 5) You're also the butler and the motivational speaker. Booger hanging? Breath bad? You've slipped. Fix it. 6) Fewer drinks for you guys. More drinks for everyone else. 7) Interference, interference, interference. You're not Lance Armstrong on this ride.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 15 2010 10:11 AM Re: Wingman

And remember, only pussies need wingmen.

Fman99 Jul 15 2010 10:11 AM Re: Wingman

[quote="Edgy DC":i7rfydr4]What are the principles of good practice in the field of wingmanship? Everything I know, I learned from Mike Damone, and I feel that's dreadfully out of date.[/quote:i7rfydr4] You're fine with the Mike Damone method, trust me on this.

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 10:12 AM Re: Wingman

[quote="themetfairy":2fv1is8v]As a married man, you shouldn't be anyone's wingman.[/quote:2fv1is8v] It's my wife that's sending me on the mission. He's a young man, a good man, smart man, loyal man, handsome man, devoted man, athletic man, but terribly awkward socially. So much so that he makes me look like like kool kat by comparison. And he's been battered by serial romantic disappointments of late. And so I'm on the case.

Centerfield Jul 15 2010 10:13 AM Re: Wingman

You should sleep with all the attractive single ladies then tell them how your friend is even better in the sack.

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 10:19 AM Re: Wingman

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]4) Think like an improv comedian: adaptive, always listening, and encouraging. To every suggestion from your boy-- explicit or implicit, and especially in front of prospectives-- it's "Yes, and..." Being funny also helps.

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]7) Interference, interference, interference. You're not Lance Armstrong on this ride.
it's balancing these two values that's tricking me up. There are some deadly conversational gambits of his that have me trying to coolly get across "DANGER! Will Robinson! Turn back NOW!" But he sort of maybe has a tick that once he goes down the road he has to see it through, and I've only worsened the situation by my cries of ¡Peligro! Better that I find a way to redirect him on to safer shoals than to blockade him.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 15 2010 10:21 AM Re: Wingman

Are you wingmanning? Or matchmaking? Two different things, I think. You should first decide which of the two you're doing. And anyway, does this guy know that he's been assigned to you as a charity case?

metirish Jul 15 2010 10:27 AM Re: Wingman

[quote="Edgy DC":15k1yfj1][quote="themetfairy":15k1yfj1]As a married man, you shouldn't be anyone's wingman.[/quote:15k1yfj1] It's my wife that's sending me on the mission. He's a young man, a good man, smart man, loyal man, handsome man, devoted man, athletic man, but terribly awkward socially. So much so that he makes me look like like kool kat by comparison. And he's been battered by serial romantic disappointments of late. And so I'm on the case.[/quote:15k1yfj1] You're a good man, best of luck to you both.

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 10:27 AM Re: Wingman

As far as matchmaking, no. He's capable of getting girls' attention --- and his taste is certainly ambitious. He's having more trouble getting to dates two or maybe three. Not so much charity, but he certainly tends to invite my wifey and me to join him and his would-bes in the early stages of relationships, whether they be in the early stage of dating or occupying the friend zone.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2010 10:37 AM Re: Wingman

[quote="Edgy DC"][quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]4) Think like an improv comedian: adaptive, always listening, and encouraging. To every suggestion from your boy-- explicit or implicit, and especially in front of prospectives-- it's "Yes, and..." Being funny also helps.

[quote="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]7) Interference, interference, interference. You're not Lance Armstrong on this ride.
it's balancing these two values that's tricking me up. There are some deadly conversational gambits of his that have me trying to coolly get across "DANGER! Will Robinson! Turn back NOW!" But he sort of maybe has a tick that once he goes down the road he has to see it through, and I've only worsened the situation by my cries of ¡Peligro! Better that I find a way to redirect him on to safer shoals than to blockade him.

Redirects can be tricky, but tend to work well when you've hit on something that works, with the added bonus of being more honest than "don't do that"-- you're softening a rough edge, rather than covering it up or pretending it isn't there.

Is this a conversational habit of which he's aware? If it is, and it's not something he's willing to correct (or be corrected on), then hey-- it's something you work around. Hell, Steve Williams can make all the suggestions he wants, but he's not tackling Tiger Woods when Tiger insists on using his nine instead of a wood.

soupcan Jul 15 2010 10:54 AM Re: Wingman

[quote="Edgy DC":1n4mocgd]As far as matchmaking, no. He's capable of getting girls' attention --- and his taste is certainly ambitious. He's having more trouble getting to dates two or maybe three.[/quote:1n4mocgd] Ooh, that's not a good sign. Sounds like he needs a personality not a wingman.

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 11:00 AM Re: Wingman

Harsh. I admit my boy has detracting traits, but he's my boy, and for good reason, as noted above. It's probably more getting out of the friend zone and into the dating zone. He's got a great personality, it's just that silky smooth pitching of woo isn't part of it. And I've got to hand it to him that he's certainly aware of his awkwardness, yet still gets over the approach hump. I'd be the lonelist guy on earth if a handful of women (wifey included) hadn't approached me first.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2010 11:19 AM Re: Wingman

You'll get better at reading him with practice. That'll help with making redirects, or knowing when not to make them. I admit my boy has detracting traits, but he's my boy, and for good reason, as noted above. It's probably more getting out of the friend zone and into the dating zone. Not very brave at making his intentions known, or is he just spectacularly, creeps-inducing bad at it?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 15 2010 11:23 AM Re: Wingman

Maybe I'm not getting the terminology right, but the way I would see it, a wingman helps a friend find a girl to have casual sex with. A matchmaker helps find someone for him or her to marry. (This is what led to my question, above.) But either way, once that introduction is made, it's ultimately up to the two people to either click or fizzle. So your goal, as I see it, is to help with the clicking. Here's how I'd approach it. You know your friend, you know his conversational strengths and weaknesses. (Maybe he can talk about movies and tennis, but not about ethnic food and bird-watching.) Feel her out (not literally!!) and see if you can discern those common interests, and then steer the conversation that way. If he's droning on about golf and her eyes are glazing over, jump in and redirect the conversation. And tell him in advance that you're going to do that, so he recognizes what you're doing and doesn't try to stomp over you. And if he refuses to follow your lead, then you probably can't help him and you may have to bail on this project.

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 11:28 AM Re: Wingman

Not very brave at making his intentions known, or is he just spectacularly, creeps-inducing bad at it? Subtract the word "spectacularly" (though he was probably there a few years back, before the Missus and I were on the case) and "creeps-inducing bad" is the heart of it. It's practically how I met him. I only kind of knew him when Bonnie (not her real name) asked me to walk her to her car one eve (and had asked me to stay close to her most of the night) because he she sensed that he was hoping to upgrade from friend to boyfriend. He was, but I got to know him better on the way back from her car, and well, I've converted from blocker to advocate for my young social misfit protege. He's awesome, and he deserves love. Bonnie, meanwhile, is now married to an insentitive douchebag/borderline bully. [quote="Benjamin Grimm"]Maybe I'm not getting the terminology right, but the way I would see it, a wingman helps a friend find a girl to have casual sex with. A matchmaker helps find someone for him or her to marry.

Maybe I have my terms wrong, but I'm not (really) trying to find the girl, just help him make better impressions once he's found them.

soupcan Jul 15 2010 11:41 AM Re: Wingman

[quote="Edgy DC"]Harsh. I admit my boy has detracting traits, but he's my boy, and for good reason, as noted above. It's probably more getting out of the friend zone and into the dating zone. He's got a great perosnality, it's just that silky smooth pitching of woo isn't part of it. And I've got to hand it to him that he's certainly aware of his awkwardness, yet still gets over the approach hump. I'd be the lonelist guy on earth if a handful of women (wifey included) hadn't approached me first.

I didn't mean to be harsh - it's just been my experience that good-looking guys only need a limited bit of geniality in order to get at least a second or third date. One of my friends for the past 25 years - great-looking guy - not much personality at all - never approached a girl, yet never wanted for female companionship.

This makes me think (like LWFS) that your friend is either giving off creepy vibes or at least just has nothing to say and makes the first date so awkward/unpleasent that it just doesn't matter how handsome he is.

Again - wingman is not what he needs. He needs a girl (your wife perhaps?) to prep him or have a pseudo-date with him. Point out what it is he is saying or doing wrong.

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 11:46 AM Re: Wingman

Good points all around. Wouldn't it be great if my friend turned out to be batmagadanleadoff or somebody? (He's not. I think.)

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 11:53 AM Re: Wingman

[quote="soupcan"]One of my friends for the past 25 years - great-looking guy - not much personality at all - never approached a girl, yet never wanted for female companionship.

Well, I certainly wouldn't put him in the "great" category. More like, "striking... from certain angles."

Jusdge for yourself.

metirish Jul 15 2010 11:55 AM Re: Wingman

In lieu of a personality he needs lots of money I guess.

seawolf17 Jul 15 2010 12:10 PM Re: Wingman

[quote="Edgy DC"][quote="soupcan"]One of my friends for the past 25 years - great-looking guy - not much personality at all - never approached a girl, yet never wanted for female companionship.

Well, I certainly wouldn't put him in the "great" category. More like, "striking... from certain angles."

Jusdge for yourself.


Actually, I'm pretty sure that's fman, not batmag.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 15 2010 12:13 PM Re: Wingman

I think maybe he should twease his eyebrows and do something about that jaundice.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2010 12:18 PM Re: Wingman Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 15 2010 12:24 PM

Weak chin, too. [quote="Benjamin Grimm"]And if he refuses to follow your lead, then you probably can't help him and you may have to bail on this project.

Grimm's approach-- and observation-- make sense. There's a point at which coachability comes into play.

[quote="soupcan"]I didn't mean to be harsh - it's just been my experience that good-looking guys only need a limited bit of geniality in order to get at least a second or third date. One of my friends for the past 25 years - great-looking guy - not much personality at all - never approached a girl, yet never wanted for female companionship.

You have to be a certain level of good-looking-- or have low enough standards-- for this to be the case, I think. Like, 90th-percentile, cross-culturally... or "she's drunk, human, and I think there's a functioning sex organ I can work with there."

[quote="Edgy DC"]Subtract the word "spectacularly" (though he was probably there a few years back, before the Missus and I were on the case) and "creeps-inducing bad" is the heart of it.

Maybe the key is to keep it black-white once some rapport has been established. If she's interested in him at all, there are a few sorts of compliments-- mostly sticking to aesthetic stuff-- that send a clear message while stopping just short of creeptown. If he floats one of these, and the reaction is adverse (or something more along the lines of "No, thanks... but I don't mind the attention") then cutting ties politely but decisively is key (it's amazing how often this is the sticking point-- an inability to realize when the gig is up and act accordingly).

Edgy DC Jul 15 2010 12:20 PM Re: Wingman

Point taken on that last. My word.

The Second Spitter Jul 15 2010 05:59 PM Re: Wingman

1. Introduce each other's stories. (eg "Hey dude - that reminds me - tell them about that time when you beat up three Phillie fans at the Vet" or whatever) 2 Boast on each other's behalf - ( The amazing thing is that chicks will believe most bullshit if it's verified from another source) eg "you better not mess with this guy - he won a scholarship to play basketball at Duke/has a Black Belt in Taekwondo" - then your buddy acts all nonchalant or whatever.) 3. The qualification to #2 is try not to be too obvious when you're "putting over" your friend. Don't say something like "This guy's the greatest dancer that I've ever seen", without making a further statement to substantiate your claim. 4 Laugh at each other's jokes (This is pivotal and so simple, so important. Never let joke fall flat on the group.) 5. You can go for the jerk v good guy routine (you being the jerk) but this is thwart with danger as some chicks have a proclivity to fall for jerks.