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Release Alex Cora

Gwreck Aug 02 2010 11:15 PM

No, it won't bring us Felipe Lopez instead but that doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. Cora's 2011 option vests once he plays in 80 games in 2010. He's now played in 62. In those 62 games, he's managed to be a whopping -1.3 wins above replacement. I don't know all of the intricacies of how that statistic is calculated, but if I am reading that right -- and I like to think that I am -- he's cost the team 1.3 wins versus what we would get with a replacement-level player. Alex gets his $2 million whether or not he actually plays for the Mets anymore this season. He has his 10+ years of service time and will get his major league pension. I bet he'd make a good minor league manager/coach down the road. But we cannot tolerate him on our roster any longer, and certainly cannot tolerate him again in 2011. He's gotta go. If not now, then absolutely after game #79. I fully understand that many people would rather release Castillo and/or Perez. That may be the case, but their money is on the books for next year no matter what. Cora's salary doesn't have to be.

The Second Spitter Aug 03 2010 06:13 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Omar won't release Cora for the simple fact that it will be an admission to ownership that he screwed up again. In the grand scheme of things, Cora's contract is inconsequential, but when you add it with Perez and Castillo you've got more than $20M/year devoted to garbage. Oh yeah, he gave Francoeur a new contract, too.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Aug 03 2010 06:31 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Two million dollars isn't inconsequential. It might not get you a ton of talent in the major league free agent market, but it can go pretty far during the amateur draft and in the international free agent market.

metirish Aug 03 2010 06:35 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Come on man , Cora is great , just a wonderful presence around the clubhouse , his guidance of the younger players is a key component for the team. Mere numbers will never show his true worth, if ever a player was going to be a manager it's Alex, or have you not heard that yet? I can't see the Mets cutting him just so his contract won't vest , they just don't do things like that do they?

seawolf17 Aug 03 2010 07:07 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

metirish wrote: I can't see the Mets cutting him just so his contract won't vest , they just don't do things like that do they? The union would have a MAJOR problem with that. So you know what? Buy him out. Offer him $1 million to not file a grievance.

seawolf17 Aug 03 2010 07:08 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Or offer him a coaching gig if he's such a good clubhouse guy.

Ceetar Aug 03 2010 07:14 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

I've never minded Cora really. He plays too much, isn't very good, etc, but I'm not sure there is actually, or that their was in the offseason, a guy that would actively be better than him as a backup. When they signed him they were probably assuming 160 games from Reyes and 140 from Castillo. I think he does add some value as a clubhouse guy, just in an overall "nice to have" kind of way. Doesn't contribute to winning, but it'd be a nice perk if he wasn't getting too much time. Things didn't work out that way, but I think Manuel's usage of him has contributed to the problem. Take Sunday. Was there any real indictation that Castillo needed a day off? Doesn't he actually need less days off to get up to speed, since he hasn't really since he's come back? If you trust Manuel to be on the same page as the front office (I don't. Mejia, Perez, etc suggest that he disagrees) then Cora really only has August to get those 18 games or he can be effectively buried in September.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 03 2010 07:17 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

I think the union would have more of a grievance if you sat somebody to keep him from reaching contract-setting milestones than if you released him.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 03 2010 07:25 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Yes, Ceetar, Cora sucks because of Manual. Geezus. I agree with what was said above: It's not Cora per se, it's Cora, plus Perez, plus Francoeur, and to a lesser extent Castillo and Barajas. It's as if you release one, there's less ground to stand on with regard to not releasing the others, but that's real money at some point. At any rate, pretty strong indictment of Omar.

Ceetar Aug 03 2010 07:30 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yes, Ceetar, Cora sucks because of Manual. Geezus. I agree with what was said above: It's not Cora per se, it's Cora, plus Perez, plus Francoeur, and to a lesser extent Castillo and Barajas. It's as if you release one, there's less ground to stand on with regard to not releasing the others, but that's real money at some point. At any rate, pretty strong indictment of Omar. No, i meant Cora is close to vesting because of Manuel and his personal feelings about Castillo.

Edgy DC Aug 03 2010 07:36 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Valentine continuing to run Pedro Astocio when he was apparently hurt and clearly ineffective (three managers and two GMs ago) suggests to me that the Mets are never in the mindset of evading a vesting option. Yeah, if the Mets were intrigued about Francoeur's relatively productive second half, they might have done better to non-tender him and try to bring him back cheap. But Francoeur's agent is Molly Fletcher. And nobody says no to Molly Fletcher.

Ceetar Aug 03 2010 07:52 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Edgy DC wrote: Valentine continuing to run Pedro Astocio when he was apparently hurt and clearly ineffective (three managers and two GMs ago) suggests to me that the Mets are never in the mindset of evading a vesting option. Yeah, if the Mets were intrigued about Francoeur's relatively productive second half, they might have done better to non-tender him and try to bring him back cheap. But Francoeur's agent is Molly Fletcher. And nobody says no to Molly Fletcher. At least the rumor of a 3 year 15 million dollar contract didn't come to fruition.

Centerfield Aug 03 2010 08:01 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

I can't imagine that having a vesting clause would prevent a player from being released. Agreed, Cora should be cut.

soupcan Aug 03 2010 08:20 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Centerfield wrote: Agreed, Cora should be cut. Agreed. And while they're at it - Release Ollie and Luis, fire Omar and Jerry. Make Bobby V. the GM and put Wally in the dugout. Boom. Done.

Gwreck Aug 03 2010 08:39 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Ceetar wrote: I've never minded Cora really. He plays too much, isn't very good, etc, but I'm not sure there is actually, or that their was in the offseason, a guy that would actively be better than him as a backup. I don't know how many times this has already been mentioned as the perfect example, but the St. Louis Cardinals signed Felipe Lopez to a $1 million contract, plus $1.2 in performance bonuses. There was no vesting option for 2011. He had finished 2009 with 680 ABs and a batting average of .310 (.810 OPS). He plays second, short and third, plus I heard he can pitch in a pinch. Now, Felipe Lopez has only been 0.5 WAR and has a .736 OPS for the Cardinals this year, but that's still 2 wins better than Cora (and 200 OPS points), for less money.

smg58 Aug 03 2010 08:42 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

There's no good reason to keep Cora. The union can't really complain when the player's performance justifies the release, contract or not. $2M may not look like much at face value, but it could have gotten us Lopez or Kelly Johnson this past year. Assuming a similar market, and that the Mets offseason spending cash is limited, that $2M needs to be spent elsewhere.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 03 2010 08:48 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Someone linked an article suggesting hiring Backman would be a mistake based on how often he bunted with the Cyclones as if all else would be the same. I feel like I'm only pointing out the very obvious -- that first-year players may very well require a different approach than big-leaguers. I was answering the question of why there's popular acclaim for Backman: Because he's popular, and for better or worse there's a feeling the Mets could use a leader who's popular.

soupcan Aug 03 2010 09:34 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Someone linked an article suggesting hiring Backman would be a mistake based on how often he bunted with the Cyclones as if all else would be the same. I feel like I'm only pointing out the very obvious -- that first-year players may very well require a different approach than big-leaguers. I was answering the question of why there's popular acclaim for Backman: Because he's popular, and for better or worse there's a feeling the Mets could use a leader who's popular. Backman's won wherever he's been. Couple him with Bobby V. and I'd bet you'd have more than just a little success.

Edgy DC Aug 03 2010 09:40 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Actually, his most recent previous stint was with the Joliet Jackhammers of the Northern League (the class of the indy minors), where he managed them to sixth place and a 24–42 (.364) record before getting axed in the midst of his first season.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 03 2010 11:02 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Gwreck wrote: Ceetar wrote: I've never minded Cora really. He plays too much, isn't very good, etc, but I'm not sure there is actually, or that their was in the offseason, a guy that would actively be better than him as a backup. I don't know how many times this has already been mentioned as the perfect example, but the St. Louis Cardinals signed Felipe Lopez to a $1 million contract, plus $1.2 in performance bonuses. There was no vesting option for 2011. He had finished 2009 with 680 ABs and a batting average of .310 (.810 OPS). He plays second, short and third, plus I heard he can pitch in a pinch. Now, Felipe Lopez has only been 0.5 WAR and has a .736 OPS for the Cardinals this year, but that's still 2 wins better than Cora (and 200 OPS points), for less money. Also, he's played third and the outfield, and pitched (remember?). Basically, he's been SuperJoe for them, only, y'know, good. Adam Kennedy would have been a similar-- and similarly-cheap-- bag of skills to bring here for less than Alex got (and he was conditioned for/expected a backup role in Washington, too).

batmagadanleadoff Aug 03 2010 11:05 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Yeah, but can Lopez wipe the smiles off of his teammates after a loss?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 03 2010 11:07 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Plus, I hear Lopez asks after the daughters of his teammates in a polite, but slightly pervy-sounding way that leaves all parties involved feeling just... oogy. Point, BML.

Gwreck Aug 03 2010 11:15 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Also, he's played third and the outfield, and pitched (remember?). I do remember, which is why I mentioned it in my original post. Felipe hasn't played the outfield since 2008 but I'll bet he could again if needed. Adam Kennedy would have been a similar-- and similarly-cheap-- bag of skills to bring here for less than Alex got (and he was conditioned for/expected a backup role in Washington, too). Good call - I had forgotten about him as a Cora-alternative.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 03 2010 11:24 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Gwreck wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Also, he's played third and the outfield, and pitched (remember?). I do remember, which is why I mentioned it in my original post. Felipe hasn't played the outfield since 2008 but I'll bet he could again if needed. I really don't think it's a terribly realistic possibility that O releases Alex.

Gwreck Aug 07 2010 11:25 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Well, there we go. Maybe now we start a "send Oliver Perez to AAA" thread and see if we can get that done too.

Nymr83 Aug 08 2010 10:06 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Hey, they listened! maybe theres hope for Omar yet?

Willets Point Aug 08 2010 08:25 PM Re: Release Alex Cora

Gwreck wrote: Well, there we go. Maybe now we start a "send Oliver Perez to AAA" thread and see if we can get that done too. Better yet, start a thread called "Mets win lots and lots of games."

HahnSolo Aug 09 2010 07:55 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

Took the Citi Field tour yesterday. The first thing little Solo says to me as we walk into the Rotunda. looking up at the lineup from teh last game "Dad, they still have Alex Cora's baseball card up."

Ceetar Aug 09 2010 08:01 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

HahnSolo wrote: Took the Citi Field tour yesterday. The first thing little Solo says to me as we walk into the Rotunda. looking up at the lineup from teh last game "Dad, they still have Alex Cora's baseball card up." lol. speaking of which, I need to take the tour. i keep forgetting.

HahnSolo Aug 09 2010 08:09 AM Re: Release Alex Cora

We liked the tour. We had been to the stadium many times, and had even been on the field for the Mr. Met dash, but we got to see lots we had not seen. The only thing I did not like was that in tour stops at the Delta Club and the Caesar's club, the guide talked up how great these places were without really letting you know that not everybody can just walk in. If you do the tour, while in the print press box, be sure to take a close look at the wall of fame of writers. Some of the older photos of guys who still write about the team are lol-funny.