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Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

bmfc1 Sep 10 2010 01:55 PM

“An MRI at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan yesterday revealed that Mets pitcher Johan Santana has suffered a tear of the anterior capsule of the left shoulder. The injury is located on the front and bottom part of the shoulder close to the pectoral muscle, resulting in discomfort radiating through both the pectoral muscle and shoulder. Santana will undergo surgery in the near future and we anticipate he will be able to resume throwing in the spring.”

Edgy DC Sep 10 2010 01:57 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Bloody amazing.

TransMonk Sep 10 2010 01:58 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

That's a surgery for each year he's been a Met. Cripes.

attgig Sep 10 2010 01:59 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

damnit! we need an ace for the playoff push! ... oh wait.. right.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 10 2010 01:59 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Well, there's your regular starter's slot for Gee. That it's shoulder surgery is worrisome.

Ceetar Sep 10 2010 02:01 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Well, there's your regular starter's slot for Gee. That it's shoulder surgery is worrisome. It sounds fairly minor, but I guess you never really know. Certainly won't help him build up arm strength/velocity or fight off atrophy.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 10 2010 02:02 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Carlos Beltran is advising him to wait until January to have the surgery.

bmfc1 Sep 10 2010 02:12 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Good tweet: craigcalcaterra Worst part of Johan's surgery: you just know Beltran, Perez and Castillo won't visit him in the hospital.

Edgy DC Sep 10 2010 02:24 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

It does sound relatively minor --- more about the pec than the the shoulder. But what do I know?

Ceetar Sep 10 2010 02:31 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Edgy DC wrote: It does sound relatively minor --- more about the pec than the the shoulder. But what do I know? I'm sure we'll hear all the pseudo-doctors tell us soon. I think the major question is when he starts throwing normally again. and can start building up the muscles and such.

dgwphotography Sep 10 2010 02:33 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

bmfc1 wrote: we anticipate he will be able to resume throwing in the spring. Why do I not believe this at all?

Frayed Knot Sep 10 2010 02:37 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

'Spring' is kind of a broad term. Early February is 'Spring Training'. But mid-June is also still 'Spring'

metirish Sep 10 2010 02:44 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Fuck's sake .......Louis won't bear to look at him when he's all bandaged up.

Ceetar Sep 10 2010 02:46 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Frayed Knot wrote: 'Spring' is kind of a broad term. Early February is 'Spring Training'. But mid-June is also still 'Spring' There's a "Spring" every year too.

Edgy DC Sep 10 2010 02:51 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

I don't have a problem believing he'll be throwing in the spring. We just have to be prepared for the reality that one more surgery combined with one more year pushes our man that much further down the road of effectiveness. But this is certainly not what I'm holding over the Mets heads. Starting pitching isn't what got them into this mess, even as they've been forced to dump two cogs in the unit early on.

themetfairy Sep 10 2010 02:54 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

It's only a flesh wound....

G-Fafif Sep 10 2010 03:51 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

bmfc1 wrote: “... and we anticipate he will be able to resume throwing in the spring.” Diagnosis from Dr. Chauncey Gardener.

metirish Sep 10 2010 03:58 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Brian Cashman is a genius.

themetfairy Sep 10 2010 04:17 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

G-Fafif wrote: bmfc1 wrote: “... and we anticipate he will be able to resume throwing in the spring.” Diagnosis from Dr. Chauncey Gardener. LOL

Ashie62 Sep 10 2010 04:30 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Two arm surgeries for Johan. This one after a year of declining velocity. He'll be back but I'm not expecting 200 innings next year.

Ceetar Sep 10 2010 04:43 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Ashie62 wrote: Two arm surgeries for Johan. This one after a year of declining velocity. He'll be back but I'm not expecting 200 innings next year. I think the declining velocity is directly related to the surgery actually. was hoping the extra year removed would be benificial, but sounds like not so much.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 10 2010 09:42 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: That it's shoulder surgery is worrisome. Yup.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 10 2010 10:50 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 11 2010 12:30 AM

From Adam Rubin: Santana did not second-guess the Mets' handling of the situation, even though the wrong injury -- a pectoral strain -- originally was announced. But was it ever a pectoral strain? Did both the Mets and Santana know all along that the pitcher injured his shoulder and not his pec? From the Wall Street Journal: Now, according to the team, Mr. Santana has a tear of the anterior capsule of his left shoulder, an injury revealed earlier this week during an MRI at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. Mr. Santana had last pitched on Sept. 2 in Atlanta, and anyone who was in the visiting clubhouse at Turner Field that night could see this coming. Manager Jerry Manuel, pitching coach Dan Warthen and Mr. Santana each had offered a different explanation for what had caused Mr. Santana to leave that game after five innings. The principals couldn't get their stories straight. Mr. Santana said he felt tightness in his left pectoral muscle but "felt fine" after seeing a team trainer. Mr. Warthen, characteristically blunt, said that Mr. Santana's shoulder "wasn't right" and that a doctor had examined him. And Mr. Manuel, in addressing the matter with reporters after the game, needed prompting from a team spokesman. "Arm or chest?" Mr. Manuel asked. "Chest," the spokesman replied. "The chest? Really?" Mr. Manuel said. "I don't know the anatomy very well." More from Rubin: "I don't know. I don't really know," Santana said about the timeline for his return during a news conference to discuss what has been diagnosed as a tear of the anterior capsule of his left shoulder, which will require surgery. "This is something that I was told is going to take time. I just have to wait and see. I think the most important thing is to be ready to be 100 percent whether it's April, whether it's May, July, October. Who knows? Time will tell." Of course, I have no idea when Santana will return. He hasn't even undergone surgery yet. But I'm ignoring the team's expectations for an April return from Santana because the team's priority is to sell tickets -- not to keep us fans accurately apprised. I wouldn't expect ownership to publically concede that Santana's recovery might, for example, take up to 12 months even if that was the most accurate prognosis: the team's decision not to pursue expensive free-agent talent for the 2011 season coupled with an admission that Santana might miss half of next season or more would likely erode next year's season ticket base. The Mets (and every other team) would rather mislead if they believed that honesty would hurt their gate.

Ashie62 Sep 10 2010 11:15 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

From Adam Rubin: Santana did not second-guess the Mets' handling of the situation, even though the wrong injury -- a pectoral strain -- originally was announced. But was it ever a pectoral strain? Did the Mets know all along that Santana injured his shoulder and not his pec? From the Wall Street Journal: Now, according to the team, Mr. Santana has a tear of the anterior capsule of his left shoulder, an injury revealed earlier this week during an MRI at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan. Mr. Santana had last pitched on Sept. 2 in Atlanta, and anyone who was in the visiting clubhouse at Turner Field that night could see this coming. Manager Jerry Manuel, pitching coach Dan Warthen and Mr. Santana each had offered a different explanation for what had caused Mr. Santana to leave that game after five innings. The principals couldn't get their stories straight. Mr. Santana said he felt tightness in his left pectoral muscle but "felt fine" after seeing a team trainer. Mr. Warthen, characteristically blunt, said that Mr. Santana's shoulder "wasn't right" and that a doctor had examined him. And Mr. Manuel, in addressing the matter with reporters after the game, needed prompting from a team spokesman. "Arm or chest?" Mr. Manuel asked. "Chest," the spokesman replied. "The chest? Really?" Mr. Manuel said. "I don't know the anatomy very well." More from Rubin: "I don't know. I don't really know," Santana said about the timeline for his return during a news conference to discuss what has been diagnosed as a tear of the anterior capsule of his left shoulder, which will require surgery. "This is something that I was told is going to take time. I just have to wait and see. I think the most important thing is to be ready to be 100 percent whether it's April, whether it's May, July, October. Who knows? Time will tell." Of course, I have no idea when Santana will return. He hasn't even undergone surgery yet. But I'm ignoring the team's expectations for an April return from Santana because the team's priority is to sell tickets -- not to keep us fans accurately apprised. I wouldn't expect ownership to publically concede that Santana's recovery might, for example, take up to 12 months even if that was the most accurate prognosis: the team's decision not to pursue expensive free-agent talent for the 2011 season coupled with an admission that Santana might miss half of next season or more would likely erode next year's season ticket base. The Mets (and every other team) would rather mislead if they believed that honesty would hurt their gate. This is frightening to me. I think I am having a "Strasburg Attack"

Edgy DC Sep 14 2010 09:29 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Mets current rotaton came into this season with 52 victories among them. Pelfrey: 28 Dickey: 22 Niese: 2 Mejia: 0 Gee: 0 Plus number six Pat Misch had three career victories going into this season and hasn't yet won this year.

Ceetar Sep 14 2010 10:17 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

I don't know where I read it, but from what I was lead to understand, one of the _symptoms_ of this torn capsule is pain/discomfort in the pectoral muscles. _everyone_ was correct in what they were talking about, this wasn't some underhanded sneaky "Let's not tell anyone what's going on and mislead everyone" it was simply different parts of the same thing.

MFS62 Sep 15 2010 08:29 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

His return may take longer than as has been reported. From Adam Rubin's ESPN blog: Dr. Jonathan Glashow, an orthopedic surgeon and co-chief of sports medicine at New York’s Mount Sinai Medical Center, who formerly worked as a New York Rangers team doctor, offered his insights on anterior capsule tears. That’s the injury that Johan Santana will require surgery to repair. Glashow believes Santana may have difficulty going full throttle at the beginning of next season, even under the best-case scenario. And if doctors find rotator cuff damage when they go inside, the prognosis gets significantly worse. What are the main points to make about anterior capsule tears? “You can kind of think of the anterior capsule as the front ligaments of the shoulder. The ligaments are just really thickenings of the capsule. And it sounds like from what I’ve just briefly read about this, the ligaments are stretched. I don’t know if he’s got a damaged labrum. The big distinction here, and the important distinction, is whether the rotator cuff is involved. If it’s simply the capsule, plus or minus the labrum to a small degree, his return is much more predictable and quick. If his cuff is damaged more than they think -- and you may say, 'Well, they have an MRI,' but MRIs are less than perfect -- then I think there’s a big question mark whether he comes back at the same level and how long it takes him to come back. Some MRIs are better than others. And even in the best-case scenario, it’s never until you look inside that you know exactly. The question is not going to be fully answered until somebody looks in there and says, ‘Hey, his cuff is fine. Great. It’s maybe five or six months.’ Or, if it’s more of a cuff issue, that’s a significantly longer problem and less predictable.” How does this happen? “It’s not so uncommon in my experience. It’s an overload injury. It’s the repetitive throwing that causes that rip in the capsule as opposed to one dramatic episode like a fall on an outstretched arm that may cause a dislocation and a big labral tear. It’s probably a repetitive thing that happens due to the constant forces on the shoulder -- wear and tear with some accentuations by recent throwing. The distinction whether it’s just capsule, or whether it’s capsule and labrum, I don’t think that makes a big difference. The big difference comes in how much of the cuff is involved. If the cuff is not really involved, quicker rehab, more predictable. If the cuff is involved, slower and less predictable. And then there’s the degrees of that. Age is a little bit against him. He’s been throwing now for how many years at 31? That puts a lot of wear on the cuff and on the labrum. But if he gets it early enough, which it looks like they’re doing and they fix it, it’s not unheard of that he comes back in six months. I think before six months is going to be tough.” And six months to begin throwing? Or in competitive games? “Six months to throwing a ball. I think that’s the short side. That’s optimistic. That’s if it’s a minor capsular tear where they can sew it back, it’s a quick rehab and everything goes right -- no glitches. I think six months is very optimistic. I think the likelihood is greater than that. It could be up to two years. Certain shoulders take 18 to 24 months to mature, especially those with larger rotator cuff issues. But that does not seem like the case here. But he’s got a lot of wear and tear on his shoulder. I’m sure. All pitchers at his level have some damage to the cuff. And then when you shut down the shoulder for a little while, rehab is a big deal. For every couple of months it’s shut down, it takes a couple to three months to bring it back. So the rehab is going to be a really important part of his game -- that he’s doing the exact right rehab so he doesn’t let everything else atrophy, so when he starts to go out to throw, things that were not repaired are not shut down and come back quicker. There are a lot of question marks here. But certainly this season he’s out. I wouldn’t count on him being great for the beginning of next season. It could be theoretically nine, 10 months out, which would put him into early to the middle of the season next year. It’s not unreasonable to expect, if it’s a better scenario going inside and he does all the right rehab, that he comes back potentially at the same level. But it’s hard to predict. I’d rather have somebody who is younger and doesn’t have as many miles on his shoulder.” BIOGRAPHY: Dr. JONATHAN GLASHOW is an orthopedic surgeon and co-chief of sports medicine at New York’s Mount Sinai Medical Center and has been in private practice for 18 years. He specializes exclusively in shoulder and knee injuries including advanced arthroscopic all-inside ACL reconstruction, double-row suture bridge rotator cuff repairs, as well as state of the art techniques to repair labral, meniscal and condral injuries. Dr. Glashow acted as a medical media consultant for ESPN Sports and was a frequent guest on their morning sport commentary “Cold Pizza.” His guest appearances on news broadcasts include CBS World News Tonight and most recently on CNN Evening News with John Roberts for his expertise on the usage of platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injections for expediting the healing process of certain injuries. After receiving his medical degree from Cornell University Medical College, Dr. Glashow completed his residency at Lenox Hill Hospital in Orthopedic Surgery. He went on to earn subspecialty fellowship training in sports medicine and arthroscopic surgery at the Southern California Orthopedic Institute/UCLA in Los Angeles, followed by a traveling Shoulder Fellowship in London, Ontario, Canada, and the University of Texas at San Antonio. Oy! Later

Ashie62 Sep 15 2010 08:39 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Oh dear Lord.

Edgy DC Sep 15 2010 08:40 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

"I think there’s a big question mark whether he comes back at the same level and how long it takes him to come back." It comes down to that. I think we're all there at this point. This will be an adventurous offseason. After shopping for (most probably) a new manager and (less probably) a new GM, they have very big question marks in Santana, Bay, and Beltran --- their three highest paid players. Enjoy it.

DocTee Sep 15 2010 08:46 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Glashow repaired my knee in 1995 and it has not caused me any problems since. If he can fix me, Johan should be no problem!

Benjamin Grimm Sep 15 2010 08:50 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Edgy DC wrote: ...they have very big question marks in Santana, Bay, and Beltran --- their three highest paid players. Plus, a lot of money tied up on Perez, Castillo, and (unless they succeed in getting out of it) Rodriguez. It's hard to see 2011 as anything other than a fallow season in which they position themselves for 2012.

Edgy DC Sep 15 2010 08:52 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Though it's certainly possible they more-or-less get production out of those guys.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 15 2010 08:53 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

True. And I think that's what we'll all be hoping for as we head into 2011.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 15 2010 09:11 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

we're gonna rock the casbah in 2011. Book it.

Edgy DC Sep 15 2010 09:14 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

But under the stewardship of whom, All-Seeing One?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 15 2010 09:21 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

I'm going with Bobby Vee.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 15 2010 09:26 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

I'm thinking third place under Wally Bee.

Edgy DC Sep 15 2010 09:35 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm going with Bobby Vee. Wow! While reading this post, I subconciously bought season tickets. Without realixzing what I was doing. It just happened.

Edgy DC Sep 15 2010 10:15 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

By the way, surgery was yesterday. Isn't there supposed to be some boilerplate release by now about how everything went as expected and the team expects him to be throwing by blahblahblah?

MFS62 Sep 15 2010 10:30 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

While we're waiting for a boilerplate team press release, this seems to be the typical boilerplate used by team bloggers after a loss. Date Score Blogger's name Expression of resigned exasperation with latest result. Acknowledgment that result doesn’t matter at this stage of season, yet it is always frustrating to encounter this sort of result. Link to article spelling out game details. Snarky aside. Key example of what went wrong in game. Assertion of saving grace, focusing on how this was just one game and player who committed key example of what went wrong in game will hopefully improve. Snide allusion to disliked secondary player’s particularly poor performance. Expression of resigned exasperation that big picture is as bleak as latest result. Link to article about newest discouraging development. Passing attempt to project what newest discouraging development means for foreseeable future. Explicit admission that future can’t be foreseen but newest discouraging development is indeed discouraging. Weaving together of various recent discouraging developments so as to suggest overarching discouraging trend that makes rooting for team difficult. Allusion to most embarrassing recent discouraging development that constitutes most disturbing manifestation of trend. Link to terrible article illustrating dimwitted coverage of recent discouraging development. Link to good article serving as counterweight to dimwitted coverage. Half-hearted analysis of most embarrassing recent discouraging development (undermined by personal conviction that most recent discouraging development was very much a non-story, yet not commenting on it at all after a few days doesn’t feel right, either). Link to archived blog post to demonstrate longstanding pattern of discouraging developments. Conclusion of analysis finding all parties are at least partially at fault (should include at least one point nobody else has made). Assertion of enduring fondness for team in spite of all prevailing evidence that team has become too exasperating to inspire any fondness whatsoever. Expression of dismay that season will soon be over in spite of latest result, recent discouraging developments and bleak big picture. Link to archived blog post from when things were better to serve as reminder that things aren’t always this bad. Gratuitous reference to Mike Hessman (optional). Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 15 2010 10:47 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

how about crediting the writer you are ripping off

Edgy DC Sep 15 2010 10:53 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Please. Nobody here reads Faith and Fear.

Centerfield Sep 15 2010 11:37 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

How come no one plagiarizes me?

themetfairy Sep 15 2010 11:43 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Centerfield wrote: How come no one plagiarizes me? Because you don't post enough. Please post more and I promise to steal from you right and left ;)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 16 2010 08:23 AM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Edgy DC wrote: Please. Nobody here reads Faith and Fear. Not everybody reads the Crane Pool Forum even

Ashie62 Sep 16 2010 12:35 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Please. Nobody here reads Faith and Fear. Not everybody reads the Crane Pool Forum even Bobby Vee does. He is all knowing and omnipotent. A true Warrior-poet.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 16 2010 01:18 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

Ashie62 wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Please. Nobody here reads Faith and Fear. Not everybody reads the Crane Pool Forum even Bobby Vee does. He is all knowing and omnipotent. A true Warrior-poet. You're gonna help him, man. You're gonna help him. I mean, what are they gonna say when he's gone to the Marlins, man? 'Cause he dies when bringing him here dies, when bringing him here dies, he dies! What are they gonna say about him? He was a smart, strategic man? He was a mustachioed man with a restaurant? He had Japanese plans and wisdom? Bullshit, man! And am I gonna be the one that's gonna set them straight? Look at me! Look at me! Wrong! [points to Ashie] YOU!

G-Fafif Sep 16 2010 01:26 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

MFS62 wrote: While we're waiting for a boilerplate team press release, this seems to be the typical boilerplate used by team bloggers after a loss. Date Score Blogger's name Expression of resigned exasperation with latest result. Acknowledgment that result doesn’t matter at this stage of season, yet it is always frustrating to encounter this sort of result. Link to article spelling out game details. Snarky aside. Key example of what went wrong in game. Assertion of saving grace, focusing on how this was just one game and player who committed key example of what went wrong in game will hopefully improve. Snide allusion to disliked secondary player’s particularly poor performance. Expression of resigned exasperation that big picture is as bleak as latest result. Link to article about newest discouraging development. Passing attempt to project what newest discouraging development means for foreseeable future. Explicit admission that future can’t be foreseen but newest discouraging development is indeed discouraging. Weaving together of various recent discouraging developments so as to suggest overarching discouraging trend that makes rooting for team difficult. Allusion to most embarrassing recent discouraging development that constitutes most disturbing manifestation of trend. Link to terrible article illustrating dimwitted coverage of recent discouraging development. Link to good article serving as counterweight to dimwitted coverage. Half-hearted analysis of most embarrassing recent discouraging development (undermined by personal conviction that most recent discouraging development was very much a non-story, yet not commenting on it at all after a few days doesn’t feel right, either). Link to archived blog post to demonstrate longstanding pattern of discouraging developments. Conclusion of analysis finding all parties are at least partially at fault (should include at least one point nobody else has made). Assertion of enduring fondness for team in spite of all prevailing evidence that team has become too exasperating to inspire any fondness whatsoever. Expression of dismay that season will soon be over in spite of latest result, recent discouraging developments and bleak big picture. Link to archived blog post from when things were better to serve as reminder that things aren’t always this bad. Gratuitous reference to Mike Hessman (optional). Later Used by this one anyway. But I don't generally put the score at the top or Later at the end.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 16 2010 01:34 PM Re: Santana--Shoulder Surgery, Out For The Season

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: how about crediting the writer you are ripping off Wow! Really!