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New Skipper Candidate Scorecard
John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2010 09:07 AM Edited 5 time(s), most recently on Sep 14 2010 02:04 PM |
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In which I practice making a chart and assess the mentioned candidates for next Met manager by attributes likely to come into play.
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Edgy DC Sep 13 2010 09:17 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Any thought that Hale comes into play? He has but one life to give to the Mets.
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Ceetar Sep 13 2010 09:19 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
How about Don Mattingly?
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Edgy DC Sep 13 2010 09:24 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Maybe to replace HoJo.
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metirish Sep 13 2010 09:28 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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No freaking way....the manager in waiting out in LA got embarrassed by Boche when he made the two mound visit in that game a while back, no experience and for fecks sake you should know the rule book. Bobby V could recite that thing back to front. How's about Ron Gardenhire?
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2010 09:29 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I wasn't speculating on candidates myself but rather going with those mentioned as possibilities. That said, the only way Mattingly gets here is as Torre's butt-boy and I think Torre's a long shot due to the fact that the team doesn't look ready for immediate contention and the salary thing.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 13 2010 09:34 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
LaRussa, but he's every bit as unlikely as Torre.
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HahnSolo Sep 13 2010 09:49 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
If I'm Teufel, and with the years I've put into the organization, I'd be a little irked that Oberkfell, Backman, Mazzilli, and Melvin were getting consideration while I'm not.
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MFS62 Sep 13 2010 10:02 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Although he has never managed, I think that somewhere in the deep recesses of his mind, Tim McCarver would like the chance to manage a major league club. Based on some of the things he has said, from positioning players on defense (e.g. - the third baseman should play in to cut down the angles rather than guarding the line in late innings) to moves on offense (e.g.- the hit and run vs the bunt), he certainaly would be different.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 13 2010 10:08 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Isn't McCarver almost 70? I doubt he'd have any interest in becoming a rookie manager at this stage of his life.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2010 10:12 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
"Juice" -- A measure of personal magnetism in reserve to effect personnel changes, stand up to meddlesome owners, shut up noisy talk radio hosts, etc etc.
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Frayed Knot Sep 13 2010 10:14 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
McCarver said many years ago - like 20 or more - that he thought about going the manager route at one point but conceded that once the booth biz turned out to be so lucrative for him there's no way he'd give up the security of it for the hours & volatility of the dugout. Now at his age (70?) there's not a chance in the world.
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Edgy DC Sep 13 2010 10:16 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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If Tim McCarver was going to manage, 1988 would have been a good time to start. No way he's going to jump in at this age. (And even more certainly not in Flushing.) The salary, burden, and stability are probably a lot better doing what he's doing.
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metsguyinmichigan Sep 13 2010 10:20 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Isn't Terry Collins a name that gets tossed out there? I think he's got some role with the Mets.
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bmfc1 Sep 13 2010 10:27 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Nice chart, thanks. I enjoyed your comments.
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metirish Sep 13 2010 10:32 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Yes, I meant to comment on that....good work....in regards to your Wally comments...the media guys love him of course but I feel they would love to rip him down too and one reason I think they love him is the hope that he'll mess up while in the big job....it would be a "typical Mets move" then. I take it your comment on his strategic rep is not a good one?
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Edgy DC Sep 13 2010 10:47 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
That's part of loving a guy as a candidate. A guy with a history of a "dynamic" personality is easier to write about, even if that means writing about what a disgrace he is. There have been more than one drumbeat for Lou Pinella in Mets history.
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Ashie62 Sep 13 2010 11:00 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Great chart!
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metsguyinmichigan Sep 13 2010 11:01 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Speaking of Lou, does anyone else think that his "retirement" will be short-lived? Could he be in a Mets uni finally?
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Frayed Knot Sep 13 2010 11:04 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Not me.
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metirish Sep 13 2010 11:05 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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For me , if you are going to hire a guy with a big personality with bags of experience and who's Italian then you hire Valentine....
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Edgy DC Sep 13 2010 11:05 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I certainly wouldn't advocate for it.
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Frayed Knot Sep 13 2010 11:11 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Piniella's heritage is Spanish -- but we get your point. Besides, Lou is 67, not in the best of health, and is, I'm convinced, done for good.
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metirish Sep 13 2010 11:15 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
He's Spanish?.....I really thought he was Italian....
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 13 2010 11:15 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Roving minor league coordinator since last year. Supposedly-- and evidently-- doing a fantastic job. The major league track record's a little iffy-- mostly, a bunch of second-place finishes and many burned bridges while working with some talent (the Killer Bs-plus-young-Hampton-and-Kile, the future core of the Angels 2002 team). But it's been a few years... and it bears noting that Bobby V had a similar looking track record when he came on board*. *I'm not saying... I'm just saying.
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Edgy DC Sep 13 2010 11:17 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Other guys on the periphery of the radar screen
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Ceetar Sep 13 2010 11:23 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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who?
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TheOldMole Sep 13 2010 06:48 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'm surprised that Oberkfell isn't getting more serious mention. He's worked with all the young players who form the core of the Mets' future.
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dgwphotography Sep 13 2010 06:58 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Gotta love a guy whose nickname was 5-0-2-0
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2010 07:06 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Yes, he'll really need to play that up (or the Wilpons would need to weigh that category extra) to overcome big deficits in the Fan Appeal, Experience, Juice and Media categories.
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metirish Sep 13 2010 07:13 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Watch the Braves snap him up, he's from that area?
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Edgy DC Sep 13 2010 07:51 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Fredi Gonzalez lives in Marietta, Georgia --- commuting distance from the Ted.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 14 2010 12:05 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Added a few more candidates and a column to track box-office appeal, you know the 'Pons will care about that.
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bmfc1 Sep 14 2010 12:44 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
The Cubs are going to interview Bob Melvin:
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 14 2010 12:51 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
It just occurred to me that maybe the Mets would consider replacing Jerry with their bench coach, and then I couldn't for the life of me think of who that bench coach might be. I finally had to look it up: Dave Jauss. Has Jauss said or done anything at all this year? Have the Mets ever had a lower profile bench coach?
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metirish Sep 14 2010 12:58 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Good point , and I think the one time he took the helm when Jerry got booted from a game Manuel had some comments about an in-game move Jauss made.....can't recall the exact circumstances but Manuel didn't exactly back him up.
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Edgy DC Sep 14 2010 01:04 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I think he got some small notoriety from a choice in a game while Jerry was tossed. He's tutored Thole on game-calling.
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TransMonk Sep 14 2010 01:14 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Jauss fully managed this victory:
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 14 2010 01:51 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Like the thought. But Torre's got at least as much appeal here as Valentine (at least in terms of media attention-- I'm not sure I've EVER bought a ticket with the manager in mind).
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 14 2010 02:01 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
We're freaks who watch these clowns no matter who's behind the wheel.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 14 2010 02:05 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'd love to think that Davey Johnson will be a candidate, but I suspect that's very unlikely.
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metirish Sep 14 2010 02:43 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Strawberry apparently has shown great smarts in managing his new restaurant , I'm throwing him in the mix.
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Edgy DC Sep 14 2010 02:56 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Davey seems like a new man in semi-retirement, but his work in international tournaments strikes me as him having lost some of his competitive edge. I'd really like a manager who wouldn't have felt a need to regularly swap Jeter and Jimmy Rollins in for each other mid-game in the World Baseball Classic.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 14 2010 03:00 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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LOL
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Edgy DC Sep 14 2010 08:43 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Edgy DC Sep 16 2010 10:38 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Listed in the mix for the Marlins: Peña, Larry Bowa, Backman, Valentine (still), and Edwin Rodriguez, of course.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 16 2010 10:47 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Not that I've seen.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 16 2010 11:07 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I read somewhere that Jerry's got a standing offer to help launch a baseball program at a small college in Norcal, that's the kinda thing he's probably better suited for anyway. I can see him doing that, then coming home to a rocking chair, a lemonade and a good book on his porch with his wife at dusk.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 16 2010 11:23 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Yes, but whither the chuckling? WHEN DOES A MAN GET TO CHUCKLE TO HIMSELF IN FRONT OF MANY, MANY CAMERAS AND REPORTERS IN PEACE?
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metirish Sep 17 2010 01:43 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
LA Times reports Torre to step down at season end and Don Mattingly to take over.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 17 2010 01:45 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I think Mattingly was the lame alternative to Jerry that I most feared. Glad to see he'll be tied down in LA.
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Edgy DC Sep 17 2010 02:12 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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MFS62 Sep 17 2010 04:03 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
And Wedge was in Star Wars, Epidodes IV, V and VI.
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Gwreck Sep 18 2010 08:29 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
For what it's worth, Eric Wedge *did* play in the majors in the early '90s (not very much).
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Ashie62 Sep 18 2010 10:22 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Mattingly is dead from the neck up.
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Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 08:58 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 09:16 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Cool storyabout the end of his tenure with Anaheim. As the team faded in the second half under a series of injuries, GM Bill Bavasi and the front office gave Collins a vote of confidence. But when Colins got wind of the petition drive to oust him, he did what he perceived as the honorable thing and resigned, lifting the pressure off of Bavasi --- sacrificing himself, in effect, for his boss' sake.
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metirish Sep 20 2010 11:04 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
The drumbeat is starting with vigor for Torre right?, you can see it now with various articles.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 20 2010 11:56 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Drumbeat? I think that's the sound of me banging my head against my desk that you're hearing, there.
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Willets Point Sep 20 2010 12:15 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Can Torre win without a roster of juiced-up robo-players?
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metirish Sep 20 2010 12:25 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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LOL....me too.....but you know he's a media darling now with the NY writers.....LupicaDick had him being paired with Backman as the understudy.
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Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 12:39 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Nah, Torre would have Bob Bailor or Doug Flynn as the understudy.
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Kong76 Sep 20 2010 03:50 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
If Torre is the Mets manager next year I may very well renounce them.
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Frayed Knot Sep 21 2010 08:14 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
"I am curious,” [about potential interest from the Mets about their managing job]. “When the season is over, I hope the phone will be ringing.” -- So said Joe Torre to Mike Francesa on yesterday's radio show.
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MFS62 Sep 21 2010 08:26 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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We've wondered whether Jeff Wilpon listens to the fans. I hope he never listens to Francessa('s show). Later
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attgig Sep 21 2010 08:49 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
gary carter? =)
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Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 09:04 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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So much for the notion that nobody with sense or leverage would be interested in working for Jeff Wilopon.
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dgwphotography Sep 21 2010 09:14 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I thought I was the only one thinking this way...
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2010 09:16 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
After 40 seasons, it will take a lot more than Joe Torre for me to "renounce" them.
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Centerfield Sep 21 2010 09:29 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
After 25+ seasons, it will take a lot more than Joe Torre for me to "renounce" them.
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Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 09:37 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I made it through Torre once. I can probably make it through twice.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2010 09:53 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Torre I always thought influenced Willie: Definitely didn't trust everyone in the pen, but strongly devoted to a few. I wouldn't consider it model bullpenning.
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batmagadanleadoff Sep 21 2010 10:16 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Neil Allen was Torre's guy some thirty years ago. I remember arguing this issue with the older teens in my neighborhood --- making the point that Reardon was the better reliever of the two. Allen's stats were glitzier only because Torre used him like a modern day closer.
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Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 10:34 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
He used Reardon when behind and Allen when ahead. Both were good, and interestingly both bought them an All Star hitter in mid-career believed to be coked out and prematurely washed up. Reardon bought them the one that actually was, and Allen bought them the one that wasn't.
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Frayed Knot Sep 21 2010 10:40 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Torre the Yank usually had almost a two-tiered caste system with his pen in most years. He had his "good guys" - most notably the Rivera, Stanton, Nelson trio in the dominant years with the set-up men changing slightly later on - and then the fill-in types. The good ones rarely worked except in close games while the others were used almost strictly in mop up roles. Now sometimes that kind of usage is determined more by personnel than the other way around and so the fact that his 'big three' were so good for a while at the same time that ownership used to pick the oddest places (often the back of the pen) to make a show of "cutting" payroll probably forced him into that kind of usage where in a different scenario he would operate differently. Yanqui fans used to get upset that he was 'giving up' when, after not going to his horses down by a couple in the middle innings, the game would blow up on him but of course that meant that they were not just available but also fresh when the next game was closer and his teams not only scored more and gave up fewer than just about anyone else in those days but they also beat their 'pythagorean projections' more often than not. Later on, when the set-up crew wasn't nearly as good, Torre would stand accused of totally over-working the likes of Tanyon Sturtze and others who were not as good as Stanton/Nelson at their best but were the best Joe had leading up to Rivera and so the two-tiered system was suddenly not as effective. Funny how that works sometimes.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2010 10:45 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
What's his name that guy, Torre used him all the time then he followed him to LA. Hard thrower from the Dodgers in the Ventura deal. Bradley. Reynolds. Dammit, brain fried.
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Frayed Knot Sep 21 2010 10:52 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Scott Proctor probably.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2010 11:23 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Yup Proctor.
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Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 01:18 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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And this is where I give him credit. Jerry used his horses any time the game was within reach, which meant most every day --- until the good guys fell apart and got asisgned to the bad guys part of the pen. Fernando Nieve Syndrome, baby. But, to judge from the above few posts, Torre suffered from FNS in the latter half of his tenure also.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2010 01:31 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
It's so strange that this conversation is even taking place. Joe Torre as a future Mets manager? Thirty years later??? The same guy who managed Ed Kranepool, Jerry Koosman, and Jerry Grote might manage Ike Davis, Jon Niese and Josh Thole???
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Kong76 Sep 21 2010 05:39 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Well really, who am I kidding anyway ... I'm like the drug addict who can't hold a razor in the morning and says he's kickin' for good and is out on the streets by noon ...
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2010 09:51 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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What a weenie.
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Edgy DC Sep 22 2010 09:53 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
So, do you think of Collins as a candidate? He's running the team's fall instructional workouts right now. (They're not in St. Lucie, but instead borrowing fields from the Red Sox, because no other team near St. Lucie was working out minor leaguers this fall.)
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2010 10:16 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
The New Skipper Candidate Scorecard doesn't indicate he'd be much of a contender.
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HahnSolo Sep 22 2010 10:18 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
The whole player mutiny thing (deserved or not) might be a red flag.
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Edgy DC Sep 22 2010 10:25 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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This interview from May suggests he's got the respect of Omar and the ownership, was a serious candidate back in 2004, and any strides forward by the team in development this season have to refelect well on him, but he closes by experssing disinterest in returning to the hot seat.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2010 10:54 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I like him where he is.
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Edgy DC Sep 22 2010 10:58 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I do also.
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Frayed Knot Sep 22 2010 11:00 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Yeah really. Not to mention how what he's essentially saying is; 'today I'm telling you the truth and I was lying yesterday'. You're already in a hole Joe. Stop digging and STFU. And while we're on the subject -- a Tim Kurkjian radio interview praised the Mattingly hire saying he was a really smart player in his day and is a lot tougher than his calm demeanor lets on. "I'll tell you what" Tim added [paraphrasing], "guys like Matt Kemp and others won't get away with the loafing they've been getting away with this year" Ummm, isn't that a pretty strong indictment of Torre?
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Edgy DC Sep 22 2010 11:04 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Not to mention a strong indictment of Torre's staff, including Mattingly.
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metirish Sep 22 2010 11:11 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
A mess not of the Mets making.....glad it's happening though and he won't be coming here.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2010 11:19 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Perhaps the Mets can do Donnie Baseball a favor and take Matt Kemp off his list of projects for his first year.
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bmfc1 Sep 22 2010 11:19 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Pearlman thinks it will be Bob Melvin:
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Edgy DC Sep 22 2010 11:23 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Read that first paragraph again. It's like he wakes up and says, "Well, fuck, I still hate myself."
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HahnSolo Sep 22 2010 11:34 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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WTF? Does anybody drink that crap?
I don't recall the Met-Nation all-night bender that had us being tempted by Dusty Baker.
And this was a bad move why?
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metsguyinmichigan Sep 22 2010 11:41 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I don't know how I made it past this second paragraph:
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2010 12:16 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I have quite literally never heard of Cel-Ray soda, much less heard a New Yorker wax philosophic about its charms (much LESS heard New Yorkers-- plural-- give it verbal love).
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2010 12:21 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I remember seeing that celery-flavored soda on sale in stores when I was at NYU in the first half of the 80's. An older guy that I worked with was certain that I'd love it, but since I didn't like celery, I had no interest in sampling celery-flavored soda. Now, though, I think I'd give it a try.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2010 12:25 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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themetfairy Sep 22 2010 12:36 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Dr. Brown's Diet Cream is a classic.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 22 2010 12:49 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Oh, the Diet Cream is great. (As is the Diet Black Cherry.) I love me some Dr. Brown's. I just am unfamiliar with the celery soda. I'd try it... but with limited expectations. I mean, in an absolute best-case scenario, it tastes remarkably like celery, right?
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Edgy DC Sep 24 2010 09:29 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Joe Torre gets low marks on the David Wells scorecard.
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Willets Point Sep 24 2010 09:59 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
David Wells only pitched for the Yankees for four seasons of his career? It sure felt that his Yuckiness lasted a lot longer than that.
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bmfc1 Sep 24 2010 11:46 AM |
I think it will be Bobby V. Here's why:
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 24 2010 11:58 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Hypothetical: You're fired from your job after a brief downturn in your team's performance (which follows a protracted period of success), somewhat unfairly. You leave to find work overseas and are successful there, too. You return to the country, and there's interest from many firms in your field... including the one that fired you (which is run at the top by the same people). Given that you've increased your desirability in the interim, why the h-e-dub-hockey-sticks would you give your ex-employers a discount?
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Edgy DC Sep 24 2010 12:03 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Almost half the league is manager shopping, and with your face on ESPN, you're going to be in the conversation for all of them. That's too good a position for somebody to be in to expect him to take a discounted price, especially under the assumption that your team is richer and more valuable than any of the others.
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Lefty Specialist Sep 24 2010 12:29 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I think there's a fair amount of bad blood between Bobby and the Wilpons, but the absence of Steve Phillips makes it slightly easier to come back.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 24 2010 12:32 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
And if Bobby was willing to work as far from Connecticut as Japan is, I don't know that he'd flinch at working in Miami or Atlanta or wherever else there might be an opening.
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bmfc1 Sep 24 2010 12:39 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Valid question. I would say because you've recently returned from many years of working half-way across the world, you live in CT, have a restaurant in CT that's more valuable if you're Mets manager http://www.bobbyv.com/ , don't want to live in Seattle or Chicago where you'll be away from home again, and because you're 60, love NY and New Yorkers love you so you'll be able to endorse more things than you would in Seattle or Chicago, and want to conclude your managing career in NY.
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Edgy DC Sep 24 2010 12:53 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I haven't read anything about bad blood. I assumed their was residual fondness amid the professional bitterness. I imagine it's nothing a few dollars can't cure.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 24 2010 12:55 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'm beginning to think the key to the next Mets manager depends on his relationship not with the Wilpons, but of the relationship with the new president/GM arrangement they are talking about now.
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bmfc1 Sep 24 2010 12:58 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I agree with you. Predictions: Jerry DiPoto, GM; Stan Kasten, President (or some other all-encompassing title).
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 24 2010 12:59 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I can deal with that. DiPoto could GM in uniform, maybe.
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metirish Sep 24 2010 01:00 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Metsblog is trying to convince that there are internal talks about a Valentine/Backman combo , an updated senario over there is quoting Lennon on a Bobby V with Omar staying on in his role and Jerry DiPoto being groomed.
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Edgy DC Sep 24 2010 01:00 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Can't see Jerry DiPoto getting the purse. Not this year, anywutz.
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Lefty Specialist Sep 24 2010 01:03 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Wally has already said he won't be a bench coach. And I doubt that Bobby V. would want to have a manager-in-waiting sitting next to him.
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 24 2010 01:24 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Is he considered some kind of boy wonder or something? Did he do anything during his short time in Arizona to give him solid GM creds?
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Edgy DC Sep 24 2010 01:33 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
When did Backman say he wouldn't be a bench coach? That would seem awfully bridgeburny of him.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 24 2010 01:35 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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His deal is that he's a Jersey native and a MLBS. At Arizona, he did a little fire sale of Haren, Qualls & Edwin Jackson. Hard to say I suppose whether they were good deals or not.
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metsguyinmichigan Sep 24 2010 01:42 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Do you think the Mets are worried about potential criticism if they replace the first Hispanic GM and a black manager with a couple old white guys?
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HahnSolo Sep 24 2010 01:53 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I could see Wally being asked to go manage in Binghamton next year, or somewhere else up the organizational chain from Brooklyn.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 24 2010 01:54 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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No.
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metirish Sep 24 2010 01:54 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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If they are then it's not warranted...
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Benjamin Grimm Sep 24 2010 01:56 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I agree. After six straight years with a Hispanic GM and two black managers, I think they've shown that they don't discriminate.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 24 2010 03:06 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
THE METS ARE RAYCESS AGAINST WHITE PEOPEL!
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Edgy DC Sep 24 2010 07:46 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Outside of the overplayed "RAYCESS," I feel like I've read that post 100 times in the last six years.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 25 2010 08:52 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Often, the toughest part of this little struggle of ours is the folks what's "on our side."
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Edgy DC Sep 25 2010 11:16 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Amen.
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Ashie62 Sep 25 2010 11:55 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Spoilsport.
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DocTee Sep 25 2010 12:15 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Both Bob Brenly and Fredi Gonzalez have withdrawn their names from candidacy for the Cubs managerial slot. Eric Wedge and Sandberg have interviewed, and Bob Melvin is slated to do so (as are Don Wakamatsu, Pat Listach and incumbent Mike Quade) according to ESPN.
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metirish Oct 06 2010 07:43 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Jon Harper as predictable as the sun soming up has this on Wally...no matter who's the GM Wally must be the manager....'cos he's gritty and will add toughness to the team.....that would be a nice way for a new GM to start out, having a manager forced on him.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 27 2010 09:41 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Who will be his guy? Hale? Mazzilli? Clint Hurdle?!?
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 27 2010 09:53 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Well, we have that one tidbit about him preferring an Earl Weaver type to a Gene Mauch, and my hunch is that Backman (based on the kind of player he was, anyway) is on the Mauch side of the spectrum.
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Edgy DC Oct 27 2010 09:56 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Has only managed as high as AA one year, and has actually put up some disastrous minor league records.
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HahnSolo Oct 27 2010 10:00 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Didn't someone post in the last day or so (not sure which thread) a Heymann tweet that Alderson had submitted a list of managerial candidates and that Backman was high on the list?
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Edgy DC Oct 27 2010 10:02 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Met ties isn't something that's been reported as a qualification, it's just, you know, a quality that tends to get guys into the picture. Such a guy already has a relationship with ownership and whatever holdovers are in management, is familiar with the system, such as it is, and has enough goodwill stored up with fans to make him marketable and indulgible.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 27 2010 10:46 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Rosenthal. So... y'know... weight that accordingly.
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 27 2010 02:55 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Somebody get Art Howe on the line!
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Ceetar Oct 27 2010 02:57 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I wouldn't be surprised if that list was alphabetical. In which case he'd be pretty high.
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Frayed Knot Oct 28 2010 07:43 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Joel Sherman & Dan Martin over at the NYPost present their list of probable/possible managerial candidates who could receive the Sandy stamp of approval
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metirish Oct 28 2010 07:50 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
For a guy who once hired LaRussa I am not buying the no drama angle, of course he also hired Art Howe after LaRussa.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 28 2010 07:52 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I kinda like the idea of Gibbons. I think Hurdle is a sure possibility, even though he wouldn't be my stylistic first choice I'd figure he has good malleability, Met heritage, experience and a grindstone kinda brand image.
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Frayed Knot Oct 28 2010 07:57 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Yeah, in a separate article under just Martin's name in the same issue he quotes sources warning folks NOT to think that Alderson can be pigeon-holed into just one particular type of manager - especially into thinking that he's just interested in a Yes-man.
Oh sure. Plus running the clubhouse and all related 'people managing' skills are at least as important as what goes on between the first and last pitch of the game.
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soupcan Oct 28 2010 08:00 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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metirish Oct 28 2010 08:05 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Oh , fuck of Steve......
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 08:12 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Valentine strikes me as an underling who shows intitiative, not a radical who subverts the organization.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 28 2010 08:31 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 28 2010 11:56 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Clint Hurdle was a prized baseball prospect who never made it as a star, in part because he drank too much. This excerpt from the famous SI cover story from 1978 is awesome ([url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/magazine/10/23/hurdle.phenom/index.html) :
Inconsistent play and not enough power for a corner OF/1B relegated Hurdle to journeyman status by age 25 when he hooked up with the Mets, who had him on the big-league roster in '83, '85 and '87 (when he was lost to the Cardinals on a Rule 5 pick in '86 Davey Johnson was so upset he reportedly cried). The org in fact liked him so much they got him started on the road to managership shortly after he retired: He managed Met farm clubs for 6 years then was hired by the expansion Rockies for whom he became manager in 2002. His tenure with the Rockies aside from an extraordinary 21-1 run that vaulted them all the way to the 2007 World Series (where they were swept) could be described as a successful failure. Hurdle is the only manager in major league history to begin his career with five consecutive losing seasons and not get fired for it. In fact he wasn't fired until a horrid start in 2009. He was praised for taking bullets for equally inept general manager and ownership, prone to making bad decisions on tight pursestrings. Hurdle had some issues with stars like Troy Tulowitzski and this article ( [url]http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-clint-hurdle-era/ )suggests Hurdle's most striking tendency as manager "is that he has arguably done the worst job picking batters for the No. 1 slot of any manager in the last half century where the data exist." Here's the best UMDB memory of him:
My own impression is that he gave pretty good interviews as a guest on Mets Extra. By the way he's the hitting coach for the Rangers today, so take that, Rudy Jamarillo.
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metirish Oct 28 2010 12:00 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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How cool is that ride? great link bucket
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 12:14 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Well, I think batmagadan may be looking elsewhere, then.
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 12:17 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Here's Clint and a foxy lady posing in front of his van:
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metsguyinmichigan Oct 28 2010 12:51 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Hurdle's name seems to come up a lot in the last day, but I think part of that is sports writers being pack animals and copying each other.
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 12:58 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
It's sometimes harder and sometimes easier, but it's always possilbe to divorce a manager's performance from the record of his team.
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 01:21 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
This is what Mazz was driving back in the day.
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 28 2010 01:23 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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If you gave me ten thousand guesses, I never would have said that was Clint Hurdle.
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 01:45 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Hey, you want to take a walk through over a decade of uninspired .429 ball with me? Come on! Sure you do! Here's the Orioles since the turn of the century.
Mazzilli hardly comes out of that smelling like a rose (Showalter sure does), but he certainly has a defense if you want to try and convict him.
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 01:47 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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You'd have been right 10,000 times, because I was just goofin'.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 28 2010 02:14 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Madden today excused Maz for having to operate in "impossible conditions" in Baltimore.
Gibbons in the meantime was also an 80s Met. Like Hurdle, he's a veteran of managing Mets' minor leaguers, and like Maz, a manager in the AL East. He's a no-nonsense guy who as BJ's skipper had feuds (some with fists!) at different times with Ted Lilly, Frank Thomas, Dave Bush and Shea Hillenbrand. His ticket to the top was having been JP Riccardi's roomie in the minors apparently. He got the good-pitching, poor-hitting Jays to 87 wins and 2nd place once in 3 full seasons as the Jays skipper. He's now the Royals' Bench Coach. His best UMDB Memory:
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metirish Oct 28 2010 02:19 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Good work bucket -
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G-Fafif Oct 28 2010 02:20 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Steve Springer told Faith and Fear in Flushing in 2007, “If you don't get along with Gibby, trust me you're the idiot. He's the best. He's gold.”
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 02:20 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Fistfuls of steroids.
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 28 2010 02:21 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Gibbons is interesting.
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 02:25 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
That post came in the midst of the five-game win streak (and 8 of 9) immediately following the Al Quaeda attack. Two days later, Mike Piazza would hit the homer that saved mankind.
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 02:29 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
No fewer than four 80s Mets catchers getting buzzz in recent times as potential Mets manager --- Carter, Gibbons, Hurdle, Stearns.
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 28 2010 02:30 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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G-Fafif Oct 28 2010 02:31 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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We're very good with priorities. This from The Amazing Mets by Jerry Mitchell:
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 28 2010 02:57 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Walter William "Chip" Hale has six years of managerial experience, all with with the D-baggs org, culminating in a Manager of the Year coronation in 2006 with the PCL's Tucson Sidewinders, who won more games than any minor-league team that year. He is credited with helping shepherd Conor Jackson, Carlos Quentin, Stephen Drew and Chris Young to the bigs.
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metirish Oct 28 2010 03:00 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Heyman has four inhouse guys getting interviewed, Backman, Hale, Oberkfell and Melvin.
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Benjamin Grimm Oct 28 2010 03:09 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Stop feeling Melvin! It's kind of creepy, and you may frighten him away.
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G-Fafif Oct 28 2010 11:11 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I used to conflate Mackanin and Mike Cubbage as they were Ranger prospects together in the offseason following (Mackanin traded to Montreal soon after). They even finished their playing careers on the very same day in 1981. If MacKanin gets the job, he has eight games to outlast Cubbage.
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Edgy DC Oct 28 2010 11:22 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I'm not sure, but I think I willed Terry Collins into the picture.
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Valadius Oct 29 2010 09:24 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'm going to try and will Ron Gardenhire into the picture.
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G-Fafif Oct 29 2010 12:43 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Jack Curry says Gibbons is in the running.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 29 2010 12:44 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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That's two strikes on DJ Fedora Tracksuit. I'd cultivate a new source were I him.
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metirish Oct 31 2010 08:22 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Doesn't sound like Gibby wants it
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 31 2010 08:24 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I think Gibby may have left the Mets org with a little bitterness. Do I actually recall that, or am I making it up?
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Fman99 Oct 31 2010 08:43 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I like the idea of Sasser running the helm, and then every time he goes to the mound to change pitchers he ends up walking wildly towards first or third base.
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Gwreck Nov 01 2010 07:51 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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You do understand that he, like Jon Daniels, is currently employed by a very successful club, right?
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Gwreck Nov 02 2010 02:29 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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From Adam Rubin's Chat today: (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/newyork/chat/_/id/35310) where he was asked repeatedly about whether Backman would be the next manager:
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TransMonk Nov 02 2010 02:31 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'm OK with that.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 02 2010 02:32 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Wow? There is more to the Wally Backman stuff is what he's saying?
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Edgy DC Nov 02 2010 02:36 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
He's an alien.
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HahnSolo Nov 02 2010 02:38 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Sounds like it, which leads you to believe something happened in the time since he was hired to manage Brooklyn. I imagine if they knew anything then, they would not have hired him in the first place.
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metirish Nov 02 2010 02:39 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Geez Adam , no 60 Minutes for you.
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Ceetar Nov 02 2010 02:39 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
So he's heard rumors, which lead him to certain conclusions, nothing that anyone else knows and it's all circumstantial, and this either happened recently or is new information or is someone big enough to keep him out of Flushing but not out of Brooklyn?
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Edgy DC Nov 03 2010 08:31 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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The Daily News names the internal candidates:
The headline and the source present Backman and Hale as the only two definite candidates. I salute Hale for making a name for himself in a short time and in an environment that is going to get most of his colleagues tossed, but if I'm Oberkfell, I'm a little peeved to see Backman ahead of myself in line.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 03 2010 08:21 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Edgy DC Nov 03 2010 08:42 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 03 2010 08:51 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Mark Simon of ESPN notes the 1994 Harrisburg Senators outperformed their pythags by 10 games.
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metirish Nov 04 2010 02:18 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Interesting
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Frayed Knot Nov 04 2010 02:51 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Yes he does. Lives in SD, teaches in SF, and takes a job in NYC.
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TheOldMole Nov 04 2010 03:33 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Why is Oberkfell being given such short shrift?
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metirish Nov 04 2010 04:12 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Is he?, he is getting interviewed. Clint Hurdle interviews with the Pirates today.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 05 2010 04:58 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Edgy DC Nov 05 2010 06:19 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
That's full of awkward phrasing and the capital M in "Manager" is just too much. That settles it. I deserve a big-time job ghost-writing these communiques.
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G-Fafif Nov 05 2010 07:32 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
It is my sincere hope that once Sandy settles down from his bicoastal teaching and travels, he goes through his in-box, notices they're sending out these ludicrous updates over his signature and puts an end to it.
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themetfairy Nov 05 2010 07:40 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
At least when these inane communiques have Sandy's alleged signature I don't have a visceral reaction of disgust. I was tempted to write to Jeffy and tell him to leave me alone already when he was signing off on these with his own name.
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metirish Nov 05 2010 12:41 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
NY Post reports that Hurdle is officially on Mets radar and Aldesron will be contacting him to set up an. Interview.
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MFS62 Nov 05 2010 08:32 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Speaking of Pirate managers, I was wondering today if the Mets might interview ex-buc manager Lloyd McClendon. I liked the way he managed, considering what he was given to work with, and has a Mets pedigree. (Mets draft pick) Later
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metirish Nov 05 2010 08:59 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
This whole Mets pedigree is getting silly, from Riciardi's playing in the system thirty years ago to McClendon being a draft pick, it's daft. can he manage?, my memories of him are that he was very laid back and IIRC the word was he wasn't that good with the kids.
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Edgy DC Nov 05 2010 09:21 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I don't think anybody is implying that having a background in the organization trumps a poor performance at the big-league level.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 05 2010 11:36 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 06 2010 10:06 AM |
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I hear you, Irish. I can't figure out why so may fans are going gaga over the prospects of Backman as the next Mets manager. If they possess keen insights into Backman's managerial skills, then fine --- but to want Wally just because he played for Davey Johnson's Mets 25 years ago makes no sense to me. Bud Harrelson had the best Mets pedigree of any incoming Mets manager. And he was an unqualified disaster.
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Edgy DC Nov 06 2010 12:25 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'll qualify that. He had a winning record, one of only five Mets managers to boast such, even out-percenting Gil Hodges.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 06 2010 01:53 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Bud was the first manager to give Dave Magadan a legitimate shot at playing every day. Mags' combined OBP under Harrelson was over .400. Still, I'm going with disaster. Plus, Buddy didn't bat Magadan leadoff. He should've.
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Frayed Knot Nov 06 2010 06:28 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 07 2010 03:05 PM |
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Because he's "fiery" and "gritty" - and everyone knows that having those traits are the two most important. Ollie wouldn't have refused his minor league assignment if Wally were managing; Beltran would have returned earlier from his injuries under a Wally regime; Wright's Ks will drop again because laid-back types like Art/Willie/Jerry kept forgetting to tell him to concentrate; all those Brooklyn players who played for him are now fundamentally sound and therefore will be ML stars within a few years; etc. Plus he learned from Davey so he "knows how to win". Those are all proven facts so there's no point in rebuttal here.
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bmfc1 Nov 06 2010 08:47 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Word today is that Terry Collins is the leading candidate. Why? Look at his track record:
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metirish Nov 06 2010 09:54 AM Yee: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Yeah, Heymand and Rubin have him as the" leading candidate" today, they change their minds daily though.
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Frayed Knot Nov 06 2010 10:15 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 07 2010 03:04 PM |
Collins is/was another get with a "fiery" rep. He got his first job in Houston, in part, as an antidote to the laid-back guy he replaced ... Art Howe!
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metirish Nov 07 2010 02:43 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Newsday on Collins
A hiring of DePodesta is seen as a boost for Collins the article says
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Frayed Knot Nov 07 2010 02:49 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
From Bill Madden's column today:
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metirish Nov 07 2010 03:03 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I found that quite amazing , it's like Valentine still has a shitty rep around the game....talked out of it? WTF is that?
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Edgy DC Nov 07 2010 03:20 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
They're going to need every dime to keep a semblance of that slugger's row together, so a high-profile manager may not be a good investment.
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metirish Nov 07 2010 03:32 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
The Selig angle crossed my mind but not the Alderson one, I like it.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 07 2010 08:09 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Boston bench coach DeMarlo Hale to interview for Mets job.
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Gwreck Nov 08 2010 03:10 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Sandy A. sent me some more email:
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MFS62 Nov 08 2010 09:33 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Too late.
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metirish Nov 09 2010 06:04 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Wakamatsu being named bench coach in Toronto does not preclude him from speaking with the Mets. DW will interview tomorrow.
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Frayed Knot Nov 09 2010 06:44 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Which is the opposite of what would happen if Mr. Payton took a job with the University of San Francisco - because then you could say that Jay is now a Don.
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Farmer Ted Nov 09 2010 07:39 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'm still stuck on Billy Beane and his Moneyball theory about stolen bases, essentially the SB is too risky and should never be attempted. If Sandy is also an advocate of this style, it doesn't bode well for Wally who would likely implore an aggressive style on the basepaths.
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HahnSolo Nov 09 2010 07:42 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Sandy's best Oakland teams had Ricky Henderson, so he can't totally be against the SB.
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Edgy DC Nov 09 2010 07:43 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
These things ain't set in stone as all that. Certainly not immutable laws.
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metsmarathon Nov 09 2010 07:53 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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is billy beane still with the a's? because this past year, rajai davis had 50 steals in 61 tries, coco crisp had 32 steals in 35 tries, and cliff pennington had 29 steals in 34 tries. overall, they were 3rd in the al with 156 steals in 194 attempts, good for a 80.4% success rate. the stolen base is generally considered to be counterproductive below a 75% success rate or so. i believe the moneyball teams eschewed the stolen base because at the time, getting people on base and slugging three run homers was the more cost-effective route to success in that obp was undervalued relative to other factors. plus, scouts love fast, toolsy guys, and not fat slow guys who get on base. the moneyball teams didn't steal bases because they weren't built to, not because billy bean had a fundamental opposition to the stolen base, i believe.
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MFS62 Nov 09 2010 07:58 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 09 2010 08:21 AM |
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I'm impressed. LOL! As for managerial strategy. Sometimes you have to do what it takes to win. The other night, the 1955 World Series was on tv (Brooklyn beating the MFYs). In the seventh game, Brooklyn manager Walter Alston had power hitter Duke Snider sacrifice bunt what was to become the second run in a 2-0 victory into scoring position. But there is a big difference between doing the unexpected that turns out OK and doing something out of rote because it is someone's "style" of managing. Later
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Edgy DC Nov 09 2010 08:11 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Booklyn won in 1956? Don Larsen might be surpised.
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MFS62 Nov 09 2010 08:20 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Typo fixed.
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Edgy DC Nov 09 2010 08:34 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
That's OK, I gave St. Louis the 1985 championship.
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John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 09 2010 08:34 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Wakamatsu will still interview with the Mets.
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Ceetar Nov 09 2010 08:40 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
So far Sandy's hired a Paul, and a John Paul. any managerial candidates named Paul?
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Frayed Knot Nov 09 2010 08:43 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Or maybe Benedict?
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Valadius Nov 09 2010 09:26 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
There's always Bruce.
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batmagadanleadoff Nov 09 2010 09:32 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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A John and a Paul? Who's next? . . . . . . . . . . .
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Edgy DC Nov 09 2010 09:33 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Benny Distefano is already in the system.
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metirish Nov 10 2010 05:36 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Backman called back for second interview says Heyman, his take, Alderson appeasing fans and the Wilpon's.
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Edgy DC Nov 10 2010 05:55 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
All that aside, he's in the system, he's been successful, he's made it as high as the majors (for a few days), won awards in the minors, and is clear that he has big-league hopes. I have no problem with him getting an interview. They are going to be talking to him anyway as they put together the minor-league staff. Might as well present themselves as open to his long-term ambitions.
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HahnSolo Nov 10 2010 06:53 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I don't know. I think you appease the fans and owner by bringing him in once. Wally must have done something to have left an impression.
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TransMonk Nov 10 2010 08:21 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
So with second interviews being scheduled and no mention of Valentine being contacted at all, the dream seems to be dying.
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Edgy DC Nov 10 2010 09:24 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
This makes an impression: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOZxT9MHAJU
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HahnSolo Nov 10 2010 09:29 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Wonder if he and Doc got that beer.
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G-Fafif Nov 10 2010 09:39 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Heyman just on FAN saying he'd be "stunned" if it's not one of Hurdle, Collins, Melvin or Wakamatsu, though it sounded more like he was stunned he was asked the question and was kind of vamping on the answer because as an insider, he couldn't simply say, "Fellas, I really don't know."
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TransMonk Nov 10 2010 09:45 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Backman, Collins and Melvin are all very uninspiring to me...even with the tirades one of them produces.
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HahnSolo Nov 10 2010 09:49 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
The one name that I really find odd as a finalist is Wakamatsu. His tenure in Seattle (one successful year followed by a terrible year) was not overwhelming.
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Edgy DC Nov 10 2010 10:10 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
The most amazing thing about that tirade is that Wally's South Georgia Peanuts were playing Andersonville. How does one walk around with "Andersonville" on his jersey and feel anything but disgust and depresson?
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 10 2010 10:59 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Because it beats working as a historical reenactor down there? I have to admit... a few of those field redecorations would help pass the time during a lost season.
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metirish Nov 10 2010 11:10 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Not all that desirable at all , the arguing with the ump was fine but when he first went back to the dugout and started throwing the balls and bats he started calling the ump a piece of shit and things like that , not good. He came across as a complete tool and an embarrassment .
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dgwphotography Nov 10 2010 11:26 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Every time I watch that video, I come away with the same observation. It wasn't a tirade - it was calculated. Why else would he tell the catcher to get out of the way?
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Valadius Nov 10 2010 11:50 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'm loving that video. I'm going to have to go home and watch the rest of that series.
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Edgy DC Nov 10 2010 12:10 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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No doubt he was aware of what he was doing there and trying to make some sort of statement. (Maybe to make the documentary more interesting?) Does that make it worse or better, in your opinion? Because the bullying, belittling, big-leaguing, and scatalogically abusing the ump --- and retreating to "What did I say? I didn't say anything!" --- is pretty embarassing. And he gets physical too. Standing up for your players has merit, but he's way out there and he's only encouraging them in the notion that his is acceptable behavior in baseball.
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Benjamin Grimm Nov 13 2010 01:16 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Adam Rubin and David Lennon are both reporting that Jose Oquendo will be interviewed on Monday.
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metirish Nov 13 2010 01:42 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Yep , the last of the first round group , second round could start in Orlando(GM meetings?) Rubin also reports that it looks more and more like Collins
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bmfc1 Nov 14 2010 10:33 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Hurdle signs with Pittsburgh. But we can still get the boring guy or guy that's lost the clubhouse twice.
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metirish Nov 14 2010 12:14 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
You know, I'm not going to hold something against Collins that happened over ten years ago , it looks like Collins or Melvin.....I can be happy with either.
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Edgy DC Nov 14 2010 12:24 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
Thing is that his players rebelled in Anaheim also. You don't have to blame him for that, but it's there.
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MFS62 Nov 14 2010 12:40 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I guess that was one hurdle that Alderson couldn't overcome. OH, STOP it! If I didn't say that, one of you would have. Later
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Ashie62 Nov 14 2010 03:27 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'm praying for Melvin over Collins.
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dgwphotography Nov 14 2010 03:40 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Of the ones that are left - I'm hoping for Oquendo over both...
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Edgy DC Nov 14 2010 03:51 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
We're in the homestretch. Wouldn't be surprised to hear an announcement tomorrow.
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Rockin' Doc Nov 14 2010 07:26 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
The best thing I can about the Mets managerial candidates, Melvin and Collins, is that they're not Jerry Manuel. I'm rather underwhelmed by both of them, but I probably would prefer Melvin. But choosing between the two is like choosing Arsenic or strychnine.
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bmfc1 Nov 14 2010 07:35 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I'm w/Rockin' Doc. I've said "as long as it's not Jerry" but the more I read about Collins, the less I like him and I haven't read anything about Melvin to make me want him to get the job.
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Edgy DC Nov 15 2010 09:49 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
A few tweets from Bob Klapish are stating outright that DePodesta has steered the search away from inexperience (Backman) toward experience (Collins).
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HahnSolo Nov 15 2010 10:20 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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This shouldn't be construed as an endorsement of Backman, however, aren't Wally's actions from a long time ago being held against him?* (*I do realize losing a clubhouse and beating up a wife are two entirely different situations)
Interesting, coming from a guy who was given the reins of a franchise at age 31 without prior GM experience.
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metirish Nov 15 2010 10:24 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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I think the fact that Backman is getting interviewed shows that his past actions are not being held against him, his lack of experienced seems to be though.
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Edgy DC Nov 15 2010 11:18 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
I certainly not privy to all in Wally's background, but I believe there's scant evidence that he ever beat up his wife.
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HahnSolo Nov 15 2010 11:21 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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You're right. I was thinking of the domestic incident
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 15 2010 11:28 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Yes, but working as an advance scout/mini-GM under Hart for three years and lieutenant to Mr. Beane for five qualify as related experience... at least a bit more than, say, one single-A job in the last 7-8 years. It ain't THAT neat an irony. This has to be it, and not the "wife-beating" incident from years ago (PiF: NOT actually a wife-beating incident).
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Vic Sage Nov 15 2010 11:57 AM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
While i'd be happy to have Bobby V back, cuz he's done it here before, clearly that's not going to happen. So, i'd be just as happy with a low cost / low profile "middle manager" type who has a track record of staying the hell out of the way (i.e., doesn't give away outs) and evinces a willingness to bring the hammer down on underperforming players (ie., make them accountable with playing time), both as a surrogate for my frustration and as motivation to the rest of the roster.
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LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 15 2010 12:01 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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"Open-mindedness about philosophy," though, I'll put a little higher on the priority list than "of no importance."
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Edgy DC Nov 15 2010 12:38 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
One thing about philosophy is that it doesn't have to be brilliant to be useful. As long as it's more or less valid and not demonstrably strategically counterproductive (i.e. batting low-OBP guys leadoff) it can helpful in serving to organize the work.
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Ashie62 Nov 15 2010 01:22 PM Re: New Skipper Candidate Scorecard |
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Ashie feels the same way.
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