Master Index of Archived Threads


Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Ashie62 Sep 19 2010 11:09 AM

Let the games begin [url]http://mlb-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/24673189

Edgy DC Sep 19 2010 12:17 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

You know, Billy Beane coming back to the Mets as GM would make a nice end to his movie.

Vic Sage Sep 19 2010 12:37 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

oh, man, i just got a stiffie.

metirish Sep 19 2010 12:44 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

I've been known to wear flip-flops around NYC.....surely that won't be a deal breaker Joel. I'd like the guy from Detroit to be a candidate.

Fman99 Sep 19 2010 07:33 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

I'm hoping for my favorite candidate, you know him as "not-Omar."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 20 2010 08:22 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

"Reassigned" within the organization to... scouting chief? Some sort of talent-evaluation-shebang, no? [Although it would be kind of fun-- if really sadistic-- to have him do a different job every week or two, and turn it into either an SNY reality show or a fan contest ("Spot Omar, win a free ticket upgrade or medium soda!").]

Centerfield Sep 20 2010 08:29 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

More from Joel: Everyone hates Jeff Wilpon http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/but ... uwZ4YKbP/0

Benjamin Grimm Sep 20 2010 08:49 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

...and special assistant Wayne Krivsky, the former Reds GM who deserves a good bit of credit for Cincinnati's run to the NL Central crown. Although, it seems unlikely Wilpon would go with anyone so closely associated with the Minaya regime. That seems rather unfair, unless there was a particularly bone-headed move of Omar's that Krivsky was known to have pushed for.

Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 09:02 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Centerfield wrote: More from Joel: Everyone hates Jeff Wilpon http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/but ... uwZ4YKbP/0 Oh, bull. OE: More importantly, though, the ever-silent Mets haven't come out and denied that Minaya's fate is already sealed, which is sad.

Number 6 Sep 20 2010 10:37 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Edgy DC wrote: Oh, bull. Why? While I'm not taking the 10 executives Sherman interviewed or his conclusions from their statements as gospel, what do you find unbelievable about Jeff Wilpon having an exceptionally poor reputation around the game?

Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 10:41 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

How often have you seen somebody snub a team because the president's reputation? How many management people have snubbed the Mets so far?

Number 6 Sep 20 2010 11:06 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Yeah, like the article states, there are only 30 jobs and someone is eventually liable to bite the bullet. But it may take more to get a top-tier GM with experience because the perception is that the work environment is substandard, and may not provide a GM with full autonomy. Since you'll be luring top candidates away either from a current position or from other offers, that can factor in if you want a Billy Beane or even Josh Daniels. Personally, before I accept a job I definitely consider who my boss will be, especially if I have the opportunity to be choosy. His title as president doesn't matter, only his influence does. Do you disagree that Jeff could wield an amount of influence that's out of proportion to his skill as a business manager and baseball man? Doesn't seem unbelievable to me.

Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 11:19 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Of course he could. But that's not what I'm calling bull on. I'm seriously questioning the notion that his hands-on inexpertise (and that's hardly unheard of in this game) is actively driving talent away from the organization. A guy with a stable job like Beane could afford to snub the Mets, but for each such fellow, dozens of talented guys wouldn't dream of it. It's simply a buyer's market. I mean, in what other industry does a guy wielding the title of "general manager" have a salary that's dwarfed many times over by that of the talent he recruits?

Ashie62 Sep 20 2010 11:26 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Sometimes perception becomes reality.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 20 2010 11:46 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Seems to me that if you are going to damage a person's reputation, you need to cite your sources, which sports columnists never do. It's easy to attack someone when you know that you'll never be held accountable for it. And, are you telling me that there aren't a bunch of guys who wouldn't kill for a chance to be general manager of a team in the biggest market and a payroll of about $130 million? It's not always going to be clogged by the the Castillos and Perezes. Even if Jeff is the world's biggest pain in the butt, being the Mets GM seems to be one of the marquee jobs in sports. (Source: me!)

Number 6 Sep 20 2010 11:52 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Of course he could. But that's not what I'm calling bull on. I'm seriously questioning the notion that his hands-on inexpertise (and that's hardly unheard of in this game) is actively driving talent away from the organization. A guy with a stable job like Beane could afford to snub the Mets, but for each such fellow, dozens of talented guys wouldn't dream of it. It's simply a buyer's market. I mean, in what other industry does a guy wielding the title of "general manager" have a salary that's dwarfed many times over by that of the talent he recruits? I think the article is saying that his hands-on inexpertise combined with the disproportionate amount of power he wields relative to his talent could affect the hiring process. That is, if we're talking about hiring a top-tier candidate who will have a stable job or other offers elsewhere: But when you call around the sport asking about the job, you get some version of this: The best people might not be interested because they do not want to work for Wilpon. “Jeff is a challenge, but most people [looking for a GM job] do not have the luxury of writing off the job because Jeff is there. There are only 30 of these jobs and they all come with warts.” I didn't take away from the article that it actively is driving those people away, but it's not unbelievable that it could (a potential that you also acknowledge). And it certainly wouldn't keep the organization away from hiring talented but less proven talent, should we go that route, if for no other reason than job scarcity.

Number 6 Sep 20 2010 11:53 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Avi

Chad Ochoseis Sep 20 2010 12:03 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Well, Howard Megdal certainly wouldn't complain if Jeff offered him the job. I don't know if I see the point of firing Omar this year, unless it's to show the world that the Mets are cleaning house, kicking ass, and taking names. Without thinking too much about it, my sense is that Omar has demonstrated that he has the "small-market" type skills that made him well-respected in Montreal. Last year, the conventional wisdom was that the Mets' farm system was shot to hell. The shot to hell farm system gave us Niese, Thole, and Davis this year, with prospects still in the pipeline. He's made plenty of obscure low cost pickups (Pagan, Dickey, both Takahashis, Figueroa, Barajas, Blanco, etc., etc.) that have turned into stars, semi-stars, or useful role-players at the very least. What he hasn't done is spend money wisely. But the Mets won't be spending money in the off-season this year - there isn't the payroll capacity or the player availability. So unless the thought is to get a GM working this year so that he can get comfy and then make moves for the 2012 season, I'm fine with leaving Omar in for 2011.

Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 12:31 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

I think the article is saying that his hands-on inexpertise combined with the disproportionate amount of power he wields relative to his talent could affect the hiring process. That is, if we're talking about hiring a top-tier candidate who will have a stable job or other offers elsewhere: It seems to me he's amplified that "could" to a "has," an "is," and a "willl." It's a question of perspective. Is personality an issue? Sure, but how big, really, in such a context? I'm certain there are many many capable people out there, and the Mets' perceptiveness to hire a good one is of far greater concern to me than their president's appeal factor. If the scenario unfolds where they can find a smart guy, but he's turned off by Jeff Wilpon, they can probably find another smart guy. And if a smart guy really throws a job back in the Mets' face, I'd question whether he was as smart as all that. It's an extremely rare and attractive job. Adam Rubin allegedly wanted to work on the Mets management team and he, more than any of us, knows exactly how big a pack of assholes they are or aren't. I mean, I missed the part of that Jerry Reuss interview where the uniform meeting made him up and quit.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 20 2010 12:35 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Any luv for Jon Daniels? He's a Met Luvvin Big Shot, Queens native, and GM of your AL West Chapions to Be, Texas Rangers. Read where he has a contract "out" as a result of the Rangers sale. If he's a true NYer he probably can't wait to get out of Dallas.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 20 2010 12:46 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Any luv for Jon Daniels? He's a Met Luvvin Big Shot, Queens native, and GM of your AL West Chapions to Be, Texas Rangers. Read where he has a contract "out" as a result of the Rangers sale. If he's a true NYer he probably can't wait to get out of Dallas. In a heartbeat. I just don't see him finally getting the team to the playoffs, then leaving before his guys reach their peak ripeness.

metirish Sep 20 2010 12:54 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Any luv for Jon Daniels? He's a Met Luvvin Big Shot, Queens native, and GM of your AL West Chapions to Be, Texas Rangers. Read where he has a contract "out" as a result of the Rangers sale. If he's a true NYer he probably can't wait to get out of Dallas. In a heartbeat. I just don't see him finally getting the team to the playoffs, then leaving before his guys reach their peak ripeness. I saw him mentioned in an article this weekend....maybe Heyman...from Bayside......article says the Rangers want to reup with him....

Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 01:01 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Let's give Nolan Ryan Jim Fregosi in exchange.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 20 2010 01:28 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

He'll use the Mets as leverage to boost up his contract, like all the free agents do.

Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 01:49 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Or he'll use other teams to boost his leverage with the Mets like other free agents do. It's all good.

Ashie62 Sep 20 2010 05:38 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

I can't see Texas letting this guy get away.

Edgy DC Sep 20 2010 06:38 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

You can't see it? Really? It may happen or it may not, but it's the sort of thing that occurs every day.

Ashie62 Sep 21 2010 05:51 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

I guess if Fred can outspend Nolan....

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2010 09:03 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

From today's Daily News: It is a bit premature to handicap potential hires, because the Mets remain in a research and discussion phase. They expect to proceed deliberately once the season is over, because this is a pivotal time for the team. The Mets will enter a new era and enjoy financial flexibility in a year, when the contracts of Carlos Beltran, Luis Castillo, Oliver Perez and Francisco Rodriguez all expire. The Mets are looking for someone they feel will lead them into that era, and who will help select the next manager (Manuel's successor will not be chosen until the GM situation is resolved.) Though they are fighting a perception that ownership is overly meddlesome in baseball operations, team brass would be far less inclined to intervene if it felt the organization were running smoothly. According to people who have been briefed on the Mets' internal discussions, the team has prioritized the following qualities in a potential hire: Toughness: The Mets are looking for an executive who will stand up to players, and shrug off criticism from the New York media. There is a perception among some major league executives that in recent years Mets players have become accustomed to getting their way too often. Balance between traditional scouting and newer statistical analysis: The Mets will never hire a GM who professes blind faith to sabermetrics - the club has long admired Terry Ryan's work with Minnesota, a more traditional team - but are looking for some openness to that perspective. Experience versus youth will not be a determining factor, but the Mets are not interested in grooming a promising executive; they want to empower someone ready to run a troubled team in a major market. It will be essential for any candidate to articulate a plan to address the club's needs immediately. If a young candidate can do that, he or she will be considered.

MFS62 Sep 21 2010 09:34 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

From today's Daily News: If a young candidate can do that, he or she will be considered. I wonder if the "she" is just being politically correct or if a woman would be considered. If so, I'd like to add Kim Ng to our list if she hasn't already been mentioned. http://www.nowpublic.com/sports/dodgers ... -female-gm She has been in a large market, on a team that has not only found and promoted good young players, but has been active in the free agent market as well. Later

Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 09:45 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

I don't think it's politically correct, but rather resporting on the facts. Women are and will be among apllicants.

MFS62 Sep 21 2010 09:50 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think it's politically correct, but rather resporting on the facts. Women are and will be among apllicants. I hadn't heard about any other women with the possible qualifications to be a GM in this market. Who are they? For which teams have they have been working? Later

Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 09:54 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Depends on what you call qualified. I personally don't think there's necessarily any reason to believe a person can run a college or a library system or a military camp, but can't run a ball team. I don't think the Mets have any women currently in what can be necessarily deemed as "front office" positions. The juiciest position a woman currently holds in the organization, I think, is senior director of marketing, occupied by Tina Mannix.

MFS62 Sep 21 2010 10:17 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Of course you're correct. Some executive skills are transferrable across industries. They include developing a business plan (with contingencies), setting a budget and managing to that budget. And there have been many women who have broken through the "glass Ceiling" to achieve chief executive positions in many large corporations (Xerox, H-P?) A quick search turned up some others now in baseball: Jamie McCourt - LA Wendy Selig-Prieb - Milwaukee Susan Jason - VP of finance - Marlins Robin Wallace - GM of the indie Nashua Pride The first two on that list are related to the owners. But if you bring in someone from outside baseball, the additional baseball-specific skills I would want in a new GM for the Mets would take time to learn (player evaluation, experience in working with/ knowing the other GMs). That's why I used the term "qualified" - someone who could hit the ground running without a long learning curve. Later

Frayed Knot Sep 21 2010 10:23 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

From Martino's piece: "Though they are fighting a perception that ownership is overly meddlesome in baseball operations, team brass would be far less inclined to intervene if it felt the organization were running smoothly." This is, of course, key. 'Hands-off' ownership is easy when things are going well. Not just easy but in most cases almost stupid to do anything else. But when things start going south often the first question to pop up is; 'why doesn't the owner do something?' The early years of Steinbrenner featured success but also resentment because he didn't know how NOT to stir things even during good times both because of his massive ego but also his total lack of grasp at the difference between what was good and his unobtainable version of perfect. When they were crashing and burning in the early '90s, his meddling style had grown so thin of fans that the in-game announcement of his banishment from baseball was met by a standing ovation of Yanqui fans in the stadium that day. Later, after their string of championships in the late '90s devolved into a string of 1st round exits and Steinbrenner's health started fading, cries of 'if George was still George this never would be allowed to happen' were heard from all corners; IOW, fans now wanted (and media demanded) a more activist ownership!

Frayed Knot Sep 21 2010 10:25 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Not sure where Kim Ng is today. She's been both an exec with the Yanx and later with the Dodgers on the player personnel side of things and has been, at least at one point in the past, a candidate for a GM position.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2010 10:31 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

I still recall the press conference introducing new GM Omar when he said he had "total autonomy." (someone asked "total autonomy?") and he said "Total autonomy." Total autonomy! I think however some things were interfered with. When the bullpen spit the bit in 08, Jeff strongly dictated a thorough bullpen-washing was in order and Omar followed suit by way overcompensating.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 01:38 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Or, as implied in the post above yours, total autonomy eroded as success did, beginnnig (it seems) after Willie's 2007 September crash. Quite natural, if not pretty to watch.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2010 01:53 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

I can see that. There can be a transition period between totally trusting somebody and firing him.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 21 2010 02:01 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Edgy DC wrote: Or, as implied in the post above yours, total autonomy eroded as success did, beginnnig after Willie's 2007 September crash. Quite natural, if not pretty to watch. Oh, I agree. And I guarantee the next guy who gets the key to the GM's office will be given total autonomy (total autonomy?!?) Total Autonomy! upon his arrival.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 21 2010 02:10 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Speaking of women leaders and the Mets... Was Joan Payson the first woman to own a sports franchise? Sometimes I think her contributions to Mets history are overlooked. We have Bill Shea's name on the wall, with Casey's number, and Casey has that gate entrance photo. Just seems like she deserves something.

Frayed Knot Sep 21 2010 02:17 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

And that's where I think Sherman makes his best point, that total autonomy* is something a 'top level' GM is going to want and something that Wilpon's rep (whether real or imagined) might limit. * realizing, of course, that no GM has absolute total autonomy - but that even if ownership wants its voice heard in player personnel matters that the GM needs to retain final say in trades/signings, etc. as long as things fit into the assigned budget. You get the opinion that here, even if they don't go as far as ordering a trade of 'Smith for Jones', they do tend to decide that 'X' needs fixing first and hamstring the GM by forcing him to start there before moving on.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2010 02:18 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Just seems like [Joan Payson] deserves something. I agree. She probably deserves more than Bill Shea. (I tend to see the SHEA on the wall, and the name of the Citi Field bridge, as more of a tribute to the former stadium than to the former person.) She is in the Mets Hall of Fame, though. (An original inductee from 1981.)

Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 02:21 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

She's considered the first, but she wasn't really when you consider that the only woman in the Hall of Fame was a white owner of a Negro League team. Payson was an original member of the team's Hall of Fame, has a wing named for her which houses her art collection at the Portand Museum of Art, and she probably has a few thoroughbred races named for her, but yes, it would be nice and appropriate if a big chunk of CitiField was named for her.

Frayed Knot Sep 21 2010 02:35 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

All this reminds me about hearing recently that Georgia Frontierre (StL Rams - late '90s) was the first woman to own a franchise that won a championship. The fact that this was some ESPN outfit means it didn't surprise me. The guys passing along this "info" were all geeked out by the fact that the two clubs in the recent WNBA finals were both owned by women and therefore the U.S. sports world was assured one way or the other of having its second female-owned title team. I wonder if they merely forgot about the likes of Payson or Marge Schott or if (more likely) that, under questioning, they wouldn't be able to place either name.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2010 05:26 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Andy Martino wrote: The Mets... are currently researching and discussing potential candidates for a prominent baseball operations position - that will not be Torre - although they are relatively early in the process and have not yet interviewed any candidates, let alone arrived at any decisions. Once someone is hired, he or she will be involved in the decision over whether to reassign or fire GM Omar Minaya, and the Mets will consider Torre - who is expected to listen to any and all offers - for a front-office position.

metirish Sep 21 2010 05:34 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Fucks sake if you hire Torre then don't do it for a for office role. Weather Jeff wants to or not I think he probably will feel compelled by the building media sentiment to talk to Torre, like the mets owe him a damn thing.

G-Fafif Sep 21 2010 05:54 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Total autonomy! Great name for a Rush cover band.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2010 08:06 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

And I feel there's no reason that a person who can operate a Rush cover band can't operate a ball team.

G-Fafif Sep 21 2010 08:10 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Edgy DC wrote: And I feel there's no reason that a person who can operate a Rush cover band can't operate a ball team. Today's Tom Seaver, he gets high on you.

MFS62 Sep 21 2010 09:34 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Frayed Knot wrote: All this reminds me about hearing recently that Georgia Frontierre (StL Rams - late '90s) was the first woman to own a franchise that won a championship. I remember that when Georgia took over the team, someone wrote "If hairspray was football smarts, Georgia Frontierre would be Vince Lombardi." I wonder if that person ever publically ate those words when Georgia's team won that championship? Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 21 2010 09:41 PM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Edgy DC wrote: And I feel there's no reason that a person who can operate a Rush cover band can't operate a ball team. Or a team... of salesmen! OF SALESMEN! I'd be exceedingly curious to see what Ng or Daniels can do.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2010 08:24 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

Scratch Kevin Towers off the potential GM candidate list; looks like he's going to Arizona.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2010 08:56 AM Re: Joel Sherman-Minaya out at year end

This frees us up to begin the DiPoto Era!