Off-day miscellany

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Off-day miscellany

Frayed Knot
Sep 24 2010 07:31 AM

* Nice to see Tampa come up with a 7-run 6th and follow that with a 2-run 7th after being down 2-0 and 3-1 early and get a split of the 4-game series where they lost the first 2.
CC got mugged in the 6th (and may have put a damper in his CY hopes), Joba allowed the mess to get worse, and then Javy Vazquez threw grease on the fire in the form of [u:23voytnt]3 consecutive HBPs[/u:23voytnt]. I don't think even Aaron Heilman ever did that.

* Speaking of the AL CY race, Seattle's Felix Hernandez saw his record drop to 12-12 despite throwing an 8-inning 2-hitter which dropped his ERA to a league-low 2.31 and upped his IP and K to league-highs of 241 & 227
And yet there will be those who will make the argument that 'he doesn't win' or that his main competition (Sabathia & Price) could have their ERAs that low too except that they choose not to because they're 'pitching to the score'

* In that same Seattle/Toronto game, the only run of the game came on Jose Bautista's 50th HR. Pretty amazing from a guy who never hit more than 16 before and in the testing era. #2 in MLB is Pujols who hit 2 yesterday to get to 41
On the other side, Ichiro got hits number 199 & 200 - making it 10 years in MLB with 10 200-hit seasons. Only Rose has 10 seasons of 200+ and he needed 20 seasons to do it.

* SF Jose Uribe hit 2 HRs ... in the 2nd inning. 2nd one was even a GS although not off the same pitcher as #1.
It was the Giants' 17th straight game holding the opposition to 3 runs or less (total of 24 runs allowed) a streak not seen since 1917

G-Fafif
Sep 24 2010 07:36 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Also, our last off day until we are faced with six months worth of them.

Vic Sage
Sep 24 2010 07:54 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Speaking of the AL CY race, Seattle's Felix Hernandez saw his record drop to 12-12 despite throwing an 8-inning 2-hitter which dropped his ERA to a league-low 2.31 and upped his IP and K to league-highs of 241 & 227
And yet there will be those who will make the argument that 'he doesn't win' or that his main competition (Sabathia & Price) could have their ERAs that low too except that they choose not to because they're 'pitching to the score'

the one i've been hearing most lately is that, pitching for a bad team that's been out it since May, Felix hasn't had to throw any "pressure games", unlike CC. As if standing on a major league mound isn't always "pressure". Or as if a major league pitcher, knowing his team isn't going to score and so needs to throw a shutout everytime out, isn't under "pressure". Or as if a pitcher in front of the best offense in baseball isn't going to throw a little more free and easy.

It just boggles the mind the excuses and rationales people will cling to in order to justify their preconceived notions and antiquated analyses.

cuz, ya see, some guys are "winners" and, therefore, the W-L record is not an empty stat indicative of many things beyond a pitcher's control... it's a stat indicating moral superiority.

Edgy DC
Sep 24 2010 08:26 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Frayed Knot wrote:
And yet there will be those who will make the argument that 'he doesn't win' or that his main competition (Sabathia & Price) could have their ERAs that low too except that they choose not to because they're 'pitching to the score'

That drumbeat is being (quite painfully) led by Joe Morgan.

This is in spite of the Mariners brandishing the worst offense since the 1971 Padres. Not the relatively worst, but the worst. Anyone who got through the late seventies (particularly as a Mets fan) knows that's impressive. Combine that with the stark reality that the Mariners play in a DH league, and that's hard to do.

When you feel bad about being a Mets fan, pay a visit to the 2010 Mariners' bb-r.com page.

Pos Mariner PA AB HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ GDP
C Rob Johnson 209 178 2 13 1 1 25 46 .191 .293 .281 .574 63 5
1B Casey Kotchman* 453 410 9 51 0 0 35 56 .220 .283 .339 .622 74 15
2B Chone Figgins# 657 562 1 35 40 15 72 110 .258 .341 .301 .642 83 18
SS Josh Wilson 355 328 1 22 5 0 14 67 .238 .293 .299 .592 67 5
3B Jose Lopez 600 573 10 56 3 2 21 63 .236 .265 .335 .600 68 20
LF Michael Saunders* 299 264 9 32 6 3 32 78 .205 .290 .360 .649 82 1
CF Franklin Gutierrez 586 528 12 58 22 3 49 127 .248 .310 .373 .683 91 8
RF Ichiro Suzuki* 685 635 6 40 41 9 43 84 .315 .361 .397 .758 113 3
DH Russell Branyan* 238 205 15 33 1 0 30 82 .215 .319 .483 .802 122 4

It's like a team full of Castillos.

Edgy DC
Sep 24 2010 08:32 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Frayed Knot wrote:
...and then Javy Vazquez threw grease on the fire in the form of 3 consecutive HBPs. I don't think even Aaron Heilman ever did that.

Doc Ellis was trying when he did it.

Frayed Knot
Sep 24 2010 08:36 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

And remember how the M's were a sexy pre-season pick in a lot of circles?
Pitching, defense, and Chone Figgins !!!!

One of the NY scribes even wrote about how embarrassing it would be for the Mets when Seattle did win seeing as how their GM - Jack Zduriencik - was once part of the Met system and they had, once again, let the wrong guy get away.

Well, at least the Pirates are worse even if they're the only ones.

Ceetar
Sep 24 2010 08:45 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Frayed Knot wrote:
And remember how the M's were a sexy pre-season pick in a lot of circles?
Pitching, defense, and Chone Figgins !!!!

Doesn't stop many Mets for crucifying Omar for saying he's going after pitching and defense, but maybe preferring guys that are actually good?

Personally, I think wins are too summarily dismissed by "statheads". It's obvious to me that Felix is probably the 'best' pitcher in the AL this year, but I don't think W-L is worthless. I do think there a little bit of 'pitching to contact' as well. It's pitching with a safety net. It's actually a contradictory argument though. If it's the results (in terms of W-L) that matter, shouldn't the result of the AB (i.e. you let up a home run cause you were pitching to contact make your numbers worse) count against you in the same manner?

John Cougar Lunchbucket
Sep 24 2010 08:46 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Que?

Edgy DC
Sep 24 2010 08:50 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

it's that New York City education system again.

Ceetar
Sep 24 2010 09:00 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Edgy DC wrote:
it's that New York City education system again.

New York State. but close enough.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Sep 24 2010 09:29 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Even as far as old-timey baseball stats go, "wins" are pretty plucking arbitrary. ESPECIALLY in the AL, where the brand of baseball they play dictates that pitchers have literally no on-field impact on how many runs his team scores. It often correlates with great pitching performances. So do cheers in the crowd, and they've got about the same direct linkage to actual pitching performance, but you don't see the BBWAA using decibel levels to hand out awards.

Vic Sage wrote:
the one i've been hearing most lately is that, pitching for a bad team that's been out it since May, Felix hasn't had to throw any "pressure games", unlike CC. As if standing on a major league mound isn't always "pressure". Or as if a major league pitcher, knowing his team isn't going to score and so needs to throw a shutout everytime out, isn't under "pressure". Or as if a pitcher in front of the best offense in baseball isn't going to throw a little more free and easy.

Forget offense for a minute. The one I haven't been hearing is the fact that the Yankees haven't had their playoff spot at risk for about six weeks now. They're "racing" the Rays for seeding.

Also not heard so much, except from Posnanski-reading precincts... CC, not facing the MFYs at all this year and facing the Mariners thrice, has faced significantly easier opposition than King Felix, who has faced baseball's best thrice and not had a single shot at a historically bad Mariners' O (like, on-pace-for-the-fewest-runs-in-a-whole-season-since-1971 bad).

You can make a case for Lee. You can make a case for Buchholz. They'd still be as wrong. Felix is the best pitcher in the AL this year by a nautical mile.

metsmarathon
Sep 24 2010 09:34 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

jeez. cc's gotten almost twice the run support as king felix (5.9 vs 3.1 runs per game start). but no, if felix were the better pitcher, he totally would've won more games.

cc has won only one game wherein his offense scored 3 runs or less. he's lost six such games.
felix has won three games in which his offense scored 3 runs or less. he's lost eleven such games.

Centerfield
Sep 24 2010 10:32 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Which goes to show you that "Pitching, Speed and Defense" isn't nearly as good a philosophy as "Pitching and lots of Offense".

Edgy DC
Sep 24 2010 10:42 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

It can also go horribly wrong in that good legs can make you a good offensive player and a good defensive player, but can also disappear and make you utterly useless with one pulled groin or turned ankle. And we know how ephemeral pitching is.

A guy with a batsman's skills (strength, quick hands, a good eye) can come back from an injury and still be a productive dude.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Sep 24 2010 10:52 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Centerfield wrote:
Which goes to show you that "Pitching, Speed and Defense" isn't nearly as good a philosophy as "Pitching and lots of Offense".

Failing that, I'll take something like "Pitching, Speed, Defense, and Fouling Off a Shit-Ton of Balls."

Frayed Knot
Sep 24 2010 11:19 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

A little slugging now and then helps a bit too even if saying so in certain circles makes one sound like a cro-magnon.

I mean look at the 'Isolated Slugging' numbers for that Seattle lineup (keeping in mind that .150 is around league avg)

C - .090
1B - .119 (that's from a slugger's position)
2B - .043 (positively Castillo-esque
SS - .061
3B - .099
LF - .155
CF - .125
RF - .082
DH - .268 (a real slugger although only 200 ABs)

bmfc1
Sep 24 2010 11:46 AM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Edgy DC wrote:
It's like a team full of Castillos.

That's the scariest sentence I've ever read at the CPF. Nice job, Stephen King.

Frayed Knot
Sep 24 2010 07:25 PM
Re: Off-day miscellany

Two more HRs for Bautista tonight.
"Fuckin' Ay" as Axel used to say.