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Memories of Jerry Manuel

G-Fafif Oct 04 2010 12:44 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 04 2010 12:49 PM

Gangsta ... not so much after the first month. Good stretch early, 40-19 from early July to mid September. Then (also) not so much.

metirish Oct 04 2010 12:46 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

Liked the interim Jerry but that soon got old and didn't care for full-time Jerry. Pulling Reyes that night was good.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2010 12:48 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

metirish wrote: Liked the interim Jerry but that soon got old and didn't care for full-time Jerry. Yeah, he was a breath of fresh air in 2008, and he helped make a going nowhere season into something that was almost special. I was glad when they brought him back, but now, of course, wish that they hadn't. Seems like a nice guy, and is probably good in the clubhouse, but a terrible tactician.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 04 2010 12:49 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

Could not resist calling for those moves that Build Character but Kill Big Innings. His best day was the day he started: Delivered a tremendously perceptive diagnosis of what was wrong with the Willie Era, then went out and did even more of it than his predecessor ever did. Had me fooled. Rehiring him was a big mistake.

G-Fafif Oct 04 2010 12:50 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

Seemed to be in on some joke nobody else knew about.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2010 12:54 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

In a way, I loved/lamented that he said the "bullpen needs to be addressed" in his last post-game/post-mortem interview. I got the idea that he'll go to his grave crying for that eighth-inning guy. When he decried earlier this season that the Mets were losing so many walkoffs was "on the eighth inning guy" --- I knew it was over. He had been walking dead to me ever since.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 04 2010 01:04 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

For a players' manager, seemed to nurse some weird attitudes toward hurt players. His shitting on Church after Ryan had left for Atlanta always particularly stuck in my craw. The insistence on batting subs-given-starts in the slots of the guys to whom they were giving a blow. Couldn't have facilitated more bunting if he'd been an uncreative mayor prepping for a Memorial Day presidential visit.

G-Fafif Oct 04 2010 01:11 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Couldn't have facilitated more bunting if he'd been an uncreative mayor prepping for a Memorial Day presidential visit. Meticulously crafted line that pays off three times.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 04 2010 01:27 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

G-Fafif wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Couldn't have facilitated more bunting if he'd been an uncreative mayor prepping for a Memorial Day presidential visit. Meticulously crafted line that pays off three times. I knew that minor in DennisMillery would pay off someday.

metirish Oct 04 2010 01:28 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Couldn't have facilitated more bunting if he'd been an uncreative mayor prepping for a Memorial Day presidential visit. Meticulously crafted line that pays off three times. I knew that minor in DennisMillery would pay off someday.

Gwreck Oct 04 2010 01:36 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

Jerry's total inability to give an effective reliever a full inning down the stretch in 2008. My memories of him are his running out of the dugout, hand raised, ready to go L-R-L as many times as possible.

Ceetar Oct 04 2010 02:02 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

There is not a single person that ever wore a Mets uniform that I was happier to see go. Most of his quirks wore on me pretty fast, but what I did enjoy is how he always seemed to carry a bat around with him when walking around in batting practice or spring training.

metirish Oct 04 2010 02:05 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

Ceetar wrote: There is not a single person that ever wore a Mets uniform that I was happier to see go. WOW, really? That thing with Maine was kinda cool, the very kind of thing that would have been even cooler at the start of his tenure, it would have fitted the persona that was crafted about him.

sharpie Oct 04 2010 02:11 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

I was just as happy to see Jeff Torborg and Art Howe go. Bud Harrelson and Willie Randolph's departure also made me happy.

Centerfield Oct 04 2010 02:33 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

I know I'm in the minority here, but I was, and remain, fairly positive on Jerry Manuel. He was not a great tactician, in fact, was pretty bad at times. The bunting, bad bullpen management, a few times I remember him inserting a pinch runner a few plays after the fact that made you wonder if he was paying attention at all. Like his predecessor, couldn't figure out Feliciano versus lefties = good, Feliciano versus righties = bad. I did not see, however, that he was any worse at these things than many of his peers. "Bunting=Fundamental Baseball" and "Don't use your closer in a tie game on the road" are philosophies that are not exclusive to Manuel. On the other hand, he did a lot of things well, as compared to others. I will appreciate how he was a breath of fresh air after Willie Randolph. He was confident, personable, and whether he made the right choice or not, seemed to care enough to think things through. He seemed to relate to his players, and his disputes with them seemed few and far in between. Knew how to handle the NY media. Never played victim, never pointed fingers, and was classy to the very end. I never felt he was given the horses to really compete, but did a good job, not great, with what he was given. I'll be happy they dumped Jerry if they bring in Bobby V, or someone who's smarter. If they bring in just another guy, they haven't gained anything.

Ashie62 Oct 04 2010 03:34 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

I still think an Indian Burial ground under Citi undermined Jerry's tenure. Next!

themetfairy Oct 04 2010 03:54 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

There was such a lack of "fundies" in the field - more so last year than this year. But I just felt that he wasn't much of a field general if his troops were constantly dropping balls and otherwise making both physical and mental errors.

Gwreck Oct 04 2010 03:57 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

Centerfield wrote: I never felt he was given the horses to really compete Really? Are you including 2008 in that statement?

Valadius Oct 04 2010 04:50 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

He was a goddamn robot!!! Zero originality of thought. Complete inability to change tactics.

Zvon Oct 04 2010 06:28 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 04 2010 06:52 PM

Centerfield wrote: I know I'm in the minority here, but I was, and remain, fairly positive on Jerry Manuel. He was not a great tactician, in fact, was pretty bad at times. The bunting, bad bullpen management, a few times I remember him inserting a pinch runner a few plays after the fact that made you wonder if he was paying attention at all. Like his predecessor, couldn't figure out Feliciano versus lefties = good, Feliciano versus righties = bad. I did not see, however, that he was any worse at these things than many of his peers. "Bunting=Fundamental Baseball" and "Don't use your closer in a tie game on the road" are philosophies that are not exclusive to Manuel. On the other hand, he did a lot of things well, as compared to others. I will appreciate how he was a breath of fresh air after Willie Randolph. He was confident, personable, and whether he made the right choice or not, seemed to care enough to think things through. He seemed to relate to his players, and his disputes with them seemed few and far in between. Knew how to handle the NY media. Never played victim, never pointed fingers, and was classy to the very end. I never felt he was given the horses to really compete, but did a good job, not great, with what he was given. I'll be happy they dumped Jerry if they bring in Bobby V, or someone who's smarter. If they bring in just another guy, they haven't gained anything. Pretty much what CF said. ty, saved me a lot of typing. I will add further that he seemed to grasp that a certain brand of baseball was needed to excel at Citi Field. The small ball thinking that led to his obsession with using,...I'll go as far as to say, overusing the bunt. He wanted to force this team into a station to station unit, and to some extent this was a good thing, and to another it was a case of wearing blinders that excluded other strategies. It was a case of him playing chess with limited pieces. But he did not use the pieces he had in the most soundly strategical way. He stuck by his guns to the point that when they were empty he looked kind of foolish standing there with empty guns. I think he was kind of immature in his use of the doghouse. I some other of his behaviors as well. I thought him classy, and in a sense he is. Its all in CF's post. But I have heard him say some stuff in the last 48 hours that could only be designed to make sure Omar is fired alongside him, and that eats into my perception of him as classy. He wasn't wrong in what he said. He just didn't have to say it. We all know he was shortchanged on the personal he was given to contend with. I don't think he had to point that out to any of us Met fans. And most of us feel a change in GM is needed as well. On the whole I like(d) Jerry, but I think he was to ridged in his thinking, to set in his strategy, to tunneled in his vision. If he had all the right pieces and none of them fell over he would have looked much better, done much better. But then again, so would have any manager. A great manager excels when he does not have all the pieces he needs, when he is tested by injuries and other misfortunes. Jerry, in this tour of duty as Mets manager, could barely be labeled a good manager. Almost, but that don't cut it. I'd really love to see Bobby V return and manage. Hell, even as GM with Wally on the field. Bobby V as GM would be crazyexcellent. Perez would have been out the door on his ass months ago. What I want to see the most is Jeff Wilpon having nothing to do with either. Whoever you hire, trust them to do thier jobs and know whats best. Stay out of the kitchen Jeff. Stay out of the pots and pans.

batmagadanleadoff Oct 04 2010 06:38 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

Gwreck wrote: Centerfield wrote: I never felt he was given the horses to really compete Really? Are you including 2008 in that statement? I'll concede that Jerry did have the horses in 2008. It's no beard off of Jerry's chin. The Mets only had the best record in the NL during the remaining 2008 that Jerry inherited from Wee Willie. Don't blame Jerry for the Mets failure to make the playoffs that season. The games in April count just as much as the ones in September. For all of the criticism that Jerry gets around here, a lot of it deserved, it'd be nice for someone to acknowledge his deft touch over the team during his interim tenure. He didn't bunt in 2008 either. And while Jerry may have bumbled through the last two seasons, I think it's also accurate to say that he didn't have all of the horses he would need to satisfy the high expectations thrust upon him.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2010 06:57 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Could not resist calling for those moves that Build Character but Kill Big Innings. His best day was the day he started: Delivered a tremendously perceptive diagnosis of what was wrong with the Willie Era, then went out and did even more of it than his predecessor ever did. Had me fooled. Rehiring him was a big mistake. Rehiring him was a big mistake, sure, but it's a mistake every one of us would have made after that crazy run the team made, even with it's failure down the stretch. Interesting that he only got a two year deal out of the Mets for that.

MFS62 Oct 04 2010 09:39 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

When we all relax a bit and think about this year, the team finished near .500 with two key starters, the regular shortstop and left fielder missing substantial time on the DL. While we have pointed out many in-game decisions we disagreed with, the fact that he kept the team together and won as many games as he did, IMO, puts Jerry in the category of a Joe Torre kind of manager - better in the clubhouse than in the dugout. That's probably the way I'll remember him. Later

Edgy DC Oct 04 2010 09:43 PM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

The centerfielder/cleanup batter only got into 64 games as well. He had adversity to contend with, sure. His approach still undermined the team.

G-Fafif Oct 05 2010 07:59 AM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

2010 = Mets' best losing record ever. Can't wait for the t-shirts to come out.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 05 2010 08:09 AM Re: Memories of Jerry Manuel

MFS62 wrote: When we all relax a bit and think about this year, the team finished near .500 with two key starters, the regular shortstop and left fielder missing substantial time on the DL. While we have pointed out many in-game decisions we disagreed with, the fact that he kept the team together and won as many games as he did, IMO, puts Jerry in the category of a Joe Torre kind of manager - better in the clubhouse than in the dugout. That's probably the way I'll remember him. Later That's fair, but: Just like in '09, when the team was at "full strength" early in the year, it futzed around losing a ton of close games as a result of poor decisions. It took two massive hot streaks just to get over .500 but the cushion wasn't enough once his players started dropping off. In the end a 10-game improvement in the standings was progress but pretty regressive progress at that.