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Takahashi to Whore Himself

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 27 2010 05:36 PM

Takahashi switches agents Takahashi switches agents By Adam Rubin With four days until the Sunday deadline when Hisanori Takahashi is due to become a free agent, the left-hander has switched agents, an indication he may be ready to shop his services. Takahashi has signed up with Arn Tellem, who has represented several Japanese players, including Hideki Matsui. Takahashi formerly was represented by New York-based Peter and Ed Greenberg, who have a strong working relationship with the Mets and who also represent Johan Santana and Jose Reyes. When Takahashi signed a minor-league deal with the Mets in February, the organization agreed to make him a free agent on Oct. 31 if he was unsigned to an extension. If Takahashi is cut loose on Sunday per that obligation, he would be prohibited from re-signing with the Mets and appearing in the majors before May 15. So, in essence, assuming Takahashi is cut loose, he is highly unlikely to return. Takahashi's versatility as a reliever and starter could be particularly valuable. The Mets already could lose the other left-hander in the bullpen, Pedro Feliciano, as a free agent. Newsday tweeted about the agent switch Wednesday.

Edgy DC Oct 27 2010 05:59 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

The Mets switched representatives also. I'm glad Alderson is on board, because I'd be moving over-aggressively on Tak.

attgig Oct 28 2010 07:35 AM

seems like "whoring himself" is a bit extreme there...

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 28 2010 07:38 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Yeah, sure, but I needed a good thread title. I'm mad that I wrote "Himself" rather than "Self" in the title. I think it would have read better.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 28 2010 07:48 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Who names their baby 'Arn'? --Proud father of a girl named "Artie"

metirish Oct 28 2010 07:58 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Takahasi has assimilated quite well to America I see .

soupcan Oct 28 2010 08:01 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

There's lotsa whores in Japan too.

attgig Oct 28 2010 12:29 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... i-in-works

Benjamin Grimm Oct 28 2010 12:59 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I do hope he comes back.

Ashie62 Oct 28 2010 01:17 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I do hope he comes back. I do also but he aint comin cheap.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Oct 28 2010 01:21 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Well, not the same sort of cheap that he was last year. But if his price climbs above, say, 3-4 million? Vaya con Arn, Hisa.

Ashie62 Oct 30 2010 07:20 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Mets extend the window to sign Takahashi for an extra week. [url]http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2010/10/mets_extend_negotiating_window.html

Frayed Knot Oct 30 2010 07:57 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Considering that the deadline was just a made-up date in the first place it makes sense for Takahashi's peeps to extend it and not shut out the only team on this side of the Pacific that knows him first hand. He might still walk away but, with the front office shuffle going on, this at least gives everyone a non-rushed chance.

duan Oct 31 2010 04:50 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

y'know what, here's where we can actually start our tracking of the alderson era. what would you offer takahashi (worthy of a separate Alderson tracker thread maybe). I still remember how far off base I was with Edgardo Alfonso whom I thought should have been offered Jorge Posasda money (50 or so mill for 5 years if i remember correctly) when the Giants managed to sign him for 30something for 4 years. Steve Phillips was right, I was wrong. So with Takahashi i'd offer up this. 3.5 million this year, with a 2.5 million player option/4.5 million team option for 2012.

Edgy DC Oct 31 2010 06:13 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Any deal he gets is probably going to have incentives about starts, relief appearance, games finished, or whatnot.

Ashie62 Oct 31 2010 06:29 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Lets open up a big can of whatnot.

Centerfield Nov 01 2010 07:49 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I'd be hard-pressed to go beyond one year for Takahashi. Maybe two (or some sort of vesting option for two) under the right circumstances (meaning cheaper than he will probably come). Three years is insane.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 01 2010 08:47 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

1 year-- with some tidy, relief-targeted performance/award bonuses-- and a moderately-priced vest.

metirish Nov 01 2010 08:49 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

He'd be a fool to not check what's out there for him right? , of course that would mean leaving the Mets but he's not young and this is his shot at a pay day.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 01 2010 08:52 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I predict that he goes elsewhere in 2011. Unless Tak's stock rose because he's being projected as one of the Mets' secret weapons to reduce the number of games K-Rod might finish.

Ceetar Nov 01 2010 09:01 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I predict that he goes elsewhere in 2011. Unless Tak's stock rose because he's being projected as one of the Mets' secret weapons to reduce the number of games K-Rod might finish. I think they'll find plenty of opportunity to do that, with or without Takahashi, depending on who the manager is. The easy answer is to build an offense that clobbers people and always win by 4+

duan Nov 01 2010 02:12 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

a) the rest of you are no fun. b) CF by 2012 I mean the season after this one. the contract I was proposing was essentially one which had 3.5 million salary this year (2011) and if we liked how it went and wanted to retain tak, we'd be paying 4.5 in 2012 season but if Tak became "expendable middle reliever" he'd be guaranteed 2.5 million. in essence it's a 2 year deal for 6/8 million depending on performance. My instinct is he'll be able to find someone willing to pay him more then 3 million as a starter so we're going to have to match that price but then give him some security by adding the year at the price of giving us some cost control. that's as far as I'd go, I'd like to get it cheaper but if it cost that I'd be happy. I'd be prepared to throw in a 500k for 25 games started/50 games finished but I don't see either of them happening. Last year he was our best/2nd best reliever and our 5th best starter.

metirish Nov 05 2010 10:06 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Deadline day is here Heyman "heard Tak wants 3 years for $4-5 per, NY Times says Mets offering 1 year, doesn't look too good from here" Unless that one year is for $12 to 15 million he's a goner.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 05 2010 11:04 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Cheers, then... and vaya con Louis y Gilbert.

Ceetar Nov 05 2010 11:09 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Ed Coleman made it sound like they were a little closer than that. Mets offering 1 at 1.5 plus an option year, Hisanori asking for 2 at 2.

metirish Nov 05 2010 11:18 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Ceetar wrote: Ed Coleman made it sound like they were a little closer than that. Mets offering 1 at 1.5 plus an option year, Hisanori asking for 2 at 2. Ed added that with the contract Tak will also "get a blow" every now and then

Benjamin Grimm Nov 05 2010 11:18 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

What does Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse say?

Frayed Knot Nov 05 2010 11:24 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

So we've got: Heyman -- "heard Tak wants 3 years for $4-5 per, ... Mets offering 1 year and Coleman -- Mets offering 1 at $1.5 plus an option year, Hisanori asking for 2 yrs at $2 -- meaning that by listening to these guys we can figure on him for anywhere between a mil and a half and $15 mils .... glad we got that nailed down.

Ceetar Nov 05 2010 11:25 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I trust Coleman more. Also, he mentioned the 3 years at 4/5 as the inital offer via the first agent taht Takahashi replaced.

duan Nov 05 2010 11:27 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

ok - can other people please tell me what they'd go to if they were sandy alderson before midnight. COME ON. indulge me.

metirish Nov 05 2010 11:32 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

2 years $7 million, club option for year 3

Edgy DC Nov 05 2010 11:33 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Two years, 4 miillion, plus: [list:1347ru1f][*:1347ru1f]$500K if he starts 20 games.[/*:m:1347ru1f] [*:1347ru1f]$1 million if he starts 40 games.[/*:m:1347ru1f] [*:1347ru1f]$1 million if he finishes 40 games.[/*:m:1347ru1f] [*:1347ru1f]$300K if he makes an All Star team.[/*:m:1347ru1f][/list:u:1347ru1f]

Frayed Knot Nov 05 2010 11:34 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Years: no more than two - and if there's an option for a third thrown in it should be in the club's hands not the players or via some sort of vesting deal Dollars: I'm usually less concerned about this but, if for two seasons, shouldn't exceed $10mil total and I'd prefer it under 8

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 05 2010 11:35 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I'd maybe go as high as 1/3... or 2/5.5. He was VERY usable in relief, somewhat less so as a starter... and there are other options for a lefty reliever/swingman. (How much is Darren O charging, again?)

Edgy DC Nov 05 2010 11:39 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Frayed Knot wrote: Years: no more than two - and if there's an option for a third thrown in it should be in the club's hands not the players or via some sort of vesting deal Dollars: I'm usually less concerned about this but, if for two seasons, shouldn't exceed $10mil total and I'd prefer it under 8 Pretty impressive for a guy without a role.

duan Nov 05 2010 11:44 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

thanks for joining in folks.

metirish Nov 05 2010 11:47 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

duan wrote: thanks for joining in folks. some free cheese might close this deal Duan

Centerfield Nov 05 2010 11:47 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

$10 million? Seriously? I wouldn't go more than $5 million over 2 years for Tak.

duan Nov 05 2010 02:28 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I'd maybe go as high as 1/3... or 2/5.5. He was VERY usable in relief, somewhat less so as a starter... and there are other options for a lefty reliever/swingman. (How much is Darren O charging, again?) Good comp - Oliver's better track record perhaps undermined a little by his age and his inability to Reliever Darren Oliver's perfect eighth inning in Wednesday's 11-7 win over Detroit earned him a nice little bonus: A $3.25 million contract for 2011. The outing was Oliver's 59th of the season and triggered the option year in his deal with the Rangers. He signed a one-year deal worth $3 million in the winter. The deal included a $3.25 million option if he reached 59 appearances, his average over the previous three years. Had he not reached the vesting option threshold, the Rangers could have bought out the deal for 2011 for $500,000. [url]http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/09/darren-oliver-pitches-an-innin.html

Frayed Knot Nov 05 2010 02:40 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Except that Oliver turned 40 last month and is a 60-70 IP/yr pitcher Takahashi is 4-1/2 years younger, nearly doubled D.O.'s IPs this season, plus has his Japanese track record to sell. The '10 & 8' guidelines I put up earlier are probably too high re-looking at them so maybe 8 & 6 are more like it. I'd be surprised if he accepts below 6-for-2 in lieu of testing the waters - although having him walk isn't the worst thing either.

attgig Nov 05 2010 02:48 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

1 year 3 mil. vesting option for second year if he reaches 20+starts or 50+apperances at 3.5 mil. club option for 3rd year. @ 5 mil with a 500k buyout. reasoning: he served a good role for us this year with the shakyness in our rotation & pen. our rotation is bound to be just as shaky as we're not having johan to start, and have the same questionmarks with the other spots (can dickey be just as good, will pelf ever put in a whole solid year, will neise continue to progress. is ollie seriously our #5). our pen is going to be lacking a loogy if feliciano isn't resigned. sure we can find someone else, but 1 reliable lefty in the pen isn't going to cut it. he comes in for 1 year at a reasonable price. second year kicks in with a raise considering he filling vital parts of the team, and at the minimum, can be an effective reliever. third year. buyout makes it 1) a more attractive offer upping it to essentially a 4 mil 2nd year. 2) if he ends up being an effective #5, a $5mil back end guy isn't that bad of a deal.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 05 2010 04:11 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Frayed Knot wrote: Except that Oliver turned 40 last month and is a 60-70 IP/yr pitcher Takahashi is 4-1/2 years younger, nearly doubled D.O.'s IPs this season, plus has his Japanese track record to sell. He also put up an ERA a run-and-a-half higher, and let on a lot more baserunners. Oliver's put up similar numbers to those he posted in 2010 for 3-4 years running, and has a longer track record against better competition. I'm not saying I'd rather have Oliver (necessarily); I'm just saying, it's a fair comp-- Oliver's age is a push with Takahashi's only having one year of performance at the Major League level as far as hedgeworthy traits go. I wouldn't go above 6-for-2. I like him, but I wouldn't slit my wrists if he walked over that. Frankly, I think we've seen his ceiling.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 05 2010 04:20 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Right now, I'm indifferent on whether Tak re-signs with the Mets.

metsguyinmichigan Nov 05 2010 04:25 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

NY Times saying talks are done, and he's gone.

G-Fafif Nov 05 2010 04:43 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Rubin confirms (though not what he means about Backman).

G-Fafif Nov 05 2010 05:11 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

From Waldstein: Hisanori Takahashi’s time with the Mets is over after one successful season, and he will seek another team in free agency beginning Saturday. The Mets and Takahashi’s agent, Arn Tellem, were expected to announce later Friday that they could not come to an agreement on his contract, and the Mets will be obligated by the terms of his contract to release him. Takahashi was asking for a multi-year contract with a value of between $4 and $6 million annually, and the Mets were willing to give him only one year. The team’s initial offer was for $1.5 million, with incentives that could allow him to earn close to $3 million. The sides had until midnight Saturday morning to complete a deal. Without one, Takahashi becomes a free agent and, by rule, cannot re-sign with the Mets until May 15, ensuring that he will sign with another team. BTW, Charlie Samuels bet this would happen.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 05 2010 07:04 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I liked Takahashi as much as the next guy, maybe more, but I ain't into multiyear deals with finesse relievers.

Fman99 Nov 05 2010 07:49 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Good luck, we can always find another Takahashi.

duan Nov 06 2010 03:01 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

we'll probably never know know, but it looks like the Mets topped out at one year 3 million plus option and Takahashi bottomed at about 8 for two years. Be interesting to see where he lands - the one weird thing about the process is it could well be that he gets a decent bit less in that the one team who had a real sense of him is now out of the game. Anyway what's next on Sandy's list - offering arb or not to free agentys? tendering contracts?

Edgy DC Nov 06 2010 06:37 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I assume there's no reason Mets cannot go after him again, if either party grows disenchanted witht he alternatives.

Frayed Knot Nov 06 2010 06:39 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I assume there's no reason Mets cannot go after him again, if either party grows disenchanted witht he alternatives. Well, except for the rule that prevents the Mets - and only the Mets - from having to wait until after May 15th of next year to sign him again.

Edgy DC Nov 06 2010 06:41 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

So I've read. But which rule is that, though? He's not arbitration eligible. And anyhow, I had understood that the May 15 rule on players denied an arbitraton offer was taken out in the last CBA. This is a very unusuall situation, I'm gathering.

Frayed Knot Nov 06 2010 06:52 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

It starts with being unusual in that Taka was a rookie but at the same time had the power of a FA coming from Japan meaning he could have provisions put in his contract like the one where he couldn't be offered arbitration at the end of this season. The May 15th provision apparently deals not with a team being unable to re-sign their lost FA until that date but with a team being unable to sign a player that they had, in effect, released prior to the FA period - a rule which probably exists to lessen the temptation for a team to release an arb-eligible player or one with an option strictly for purposes of inking him to a lesser contract than he was otherwise headed for.

Edgy DC Nov 06 2010 07:30 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Well, the Mets are minus two players in the Sandy era.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 06 2010 08:49 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

According to the major leagues’ Rule 8 (i) (2), any player who is released after midnight Aug. 31 and before the next opening day cannot sign a major league contract with the same team until May 15 the following year. He can sign a minor league contract, which Takahashi would probably not do, but cannot be called up to the majors until May 15.... The 8 (i) (2) rule, which has been in effect for many years, was designed to prevent teams from cutting players and then signing them back for less money. The full article

Ceetar Nov 06 2010 08:57 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Edgy DC wrote: Well, the Mets are minurs two players in the Sandy era. Stealth Contraction? is Alderson a sleeper agent of Selig?

Frayed Knot Nov 06 2010 10:06 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

batmagadanleadoff wrote: According to the major leagues’ Rule 8 (i) (2), any player who is released after midnight Aug. 31 and before the next opening day cannot sign a major league contract with the same team until May 15 the following year. He can sign a minor league contract, which Takahashi would probably not do, but cannot be called up to the majors until May 15.... The 8 (i) (2) rule, which has been in effect for many years, was designed to prevent teams from cutting players and then signing them back for less money. The full article Right. There also used to be a rule that prevented a club who lost a FA from re-signing that player until the following May but that one was done away with. Taka's situation is different in that his ML service time alone doesn't get him FA status so he had the wording put into his deal where he could not be offered arb and, in effect, had to be released unless they came to some sort of immediate new contract. That release is what gets him his FA status this year and therefore the rule against his old team kicks in. Normally first-year players don't have the pull to get that kind of language in their contracts but now several Japanese players have gone that route.

Ceetar Nov 06 2010 10:16 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I don't think they should've paid him 3 years, but I'm thinking maybe they should've considered is value not just as what he could bring to the Mets, but what he can't bring to the Phillies. A guy like Takahashi fits in perfectly there, and I just hope they don't realize it. He also could end up on the Yankees, who he beat twice and probably have a slightly inflated opinion as to his worth.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 06 2010 10:17 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Frayed Knot wrote: Normally first-year players don't have the pull to get that kind of language in their contracts but now several Japanese players have gone that route. The Japanese imports are hybrids -- veterans really, but denominated as rookies because MLB defines a rookie by the amount of MLB experience only. On a side note, I'm against incoming veteran imports like Ichiro and Hideo Nomo qualifying for the ROY award. It goes against the spirit of the award and the common-sense definition of "rookie". If it was up to me, I'd define "rookie", at least for purposes of the ROY award, based on professional rather than MLB experience.

Ashie62 Nov 06 2010 11:20 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Is it time for a "Memories of Takahashi" Thread?

Ceetar Nov 06 2010 11:23 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Normally first-year players don't have the pull to get that kind of language in their contracts but now several Japanese players have gone that route. The Japanese imports are hybrids -- veterans really, but denominated as rookies because MLB defines a rookie by the amount of MLB experience only. On a side note, I'm against incoming veteran imports like Ichiro and Hideo Nomo qualifying for the ROY award. It goes against the spirit of the award and the common-sense definition of "rookie". If it was up to me, I'd define "rookie", at least for purposes of the ROY award, based on professional rather than MLB experience. That one's a little simpler, but it's be nice if they defined MVP and Cy Young too. But it's definitely needed, some believe and some don't, so all voters are actually voting on a different set of players. That's just stupid.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 06 2010 11:45 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Frayed Knot wrote: Normally first-year players don't have the pull to get that kind of language in their contracts but now several Japanese players have gone that route. But the Japanese imports have considerably more leverage than your MLB rookie/first year player. The imports are typically, still in high demand in their home country and also, free agents here, thus inviting competing teams both here and abroad to bid against each other for their services. As you know, an MLB rookie has virtually no near-term leverage to command more than the MLB first year minimum salary and cannot invoke a bidding war among other teams. In this respect, the typical MLB rookie has about as many options as an MLB'er who played under the old and infinitely restrictive reserve clause.

Edgy DC Nov 06 2010 01:26 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

The problem is that the very first Rookie of the Year recipient and the one for whom the award has subsequently been named had played in an alternative professional league. I think we have to get used to the choice MLB made to recognize these players as rookie eligible, even if it's not the rookie pool we grew up with. The Japanese leagues have had all sorts of rules limiting the opportunity and recognition availalble to Western players and it just comes out as insulated and protectionist and that's not a model we should follow.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 06 2010 01:51 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

I don't think I'm motivated by protectionist concerns. If it was up to me, I'd consider any Japanese import for ROY, so long as his professional experience was used to determine his MLB rookie status. You make a good point about some of the early ROY's playing in the Negro Leagues. But unlike today's Japanese imports, Robinson and Newcombe, et. al. were, for a while, barred from playing in the Majors. I'm not suggesting that Jackie Robinson posthumously forfeit his ROY award.* But should the fact that Robinson and Newcombe were pros prior to playing in the Majors be the sole reason for allowing today's experienced veteran Japanese imports to qualify for ROY? * The Rotunda. That's another story.

Edgy DC Nov 06 2010 01:57 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I don't think I'm motivated by protectionist concerns. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply you were. I meant to suggest that that's the way it would perhaps be interpreted to Japanese baseball parities.

Edgy DC Nov 06 2010 02:02 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

Now I know why you abstained from voting in the Dwight Gooden Award thread.

metirish Dec 02 2010 01:40 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

To the Angels apparently in a multiyear deal.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2010 08:23 PM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

metirish wrote: To the Angels apparently in a multiyear deal. That whore.

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2010 08:58 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

The contract Takahashi signed for is apparently around $8mil over 2 years -- which is above where most if not all peeps here answered as their limit for what they'd offer in response to Duan's 'What would YOU pay him?' question from page 1 of this thread.

duan Dec 04 2010 09:44 AM Re: Takahashi to Whore Himself

yeah I was thinking that myself - I reckon I was closest to paying it (as my deal was essentially a 2 year deal for 6 or 8) but at least it shows us all that alderson probably wasn't being a bit mad and only offering 1.5 million