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Belief


I believe in God and I'm glad I do. 8 votes

I don't believe in God and I'm glad that I don't. 6 votes

I believe in God and I wish that I didn't. 0 votes

I don't believe in God and I wish that I did. 1 votes

I'm unsure, and that makes me uneasy. 1 votes

I'm unsure, and it doesn't bother me. 11 votes

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 11 2010 05:32 PM

Which most closely describes how you believe?

metirish
Oct 11 2010 05:42 PM
Re: Belief

I guess this describes me mostly


I don't believe in God and I'm glad that I don't


I think more than that statement though it's apathy I feel . I attended Mass and was an Alter Boy growing up and basically had good experiences with all that but as I got older and saw how the church was in Ireland I became disgusted and remain that way towards it . Having said that I did pray plenty when my son was born and going through surgery and all that stuff.

Frayed Knot
Oct 11 2010 05:50 PM
Re: Belief

There's the old joke about the guy who claims there is no God yet still prays and belongs to a church.
When his friend asks about the contradiction the guy responds; "In case I'm wrong"

Edgy DC
Oct 11 2010 05:56 PM
Re: Belief

You're bringing the God today.

Chad Ochoseis
Oct 11 2010 06:25 PM
Re: Belief

Unsure. And puzzled by people who are certain one way or the other.

Frayed Knot wrote:
There's the old joke about the guy who claims there is no God yet still prays and belongs to a church.
When his friend asks about the contradiction the guy responds; "In case I'm wrong"


Every once in a while, I'll find my way to a synagogue. It doesn't make me any less of an agnostic, but I do like taking part in Jewish traditions.

Kong76
Oct 11 2010 06:57 PM
Re: Belief

I don't believe in god, the tooth fairy, or leprechauns.

Well, maybe leprechauns.

themetfairy
Oct 11 2010 07:17 PM
Re: Belief

I'm unsure and I'm fine with that.

I'm more concerned with one's actions than with what one believes.

HahnSolo
Oct 11 2010 08:30 PM
Re: Belief

Belief ... Ya gotta.

Actually, I believe but I am unsure.

Fman99
Oct 11 2010 08:32 PM
Re: Belief

I'm unsure and it doesn't bother me.

I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me. Yoko and me.

Rockin' Doc
Oct 11 2010 08:33 PM
Re: Belief

I am a man of faith. My belief in God shapes who I am.

G-Fafif
Oct 11 2010 11:26 PM
Re: Belief

I kind of wish they'd bring the walls in, at least in right field.

Whoops, wrong thread.

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 12 2010 04:17 AM
Re: Belief

Edgy DC wrote:
You're bringing the God today.


Tomorrow maybe I'll bring donuts.

TransMonk
Oct 12 2010 07:13 AM
Re: Belief

I'm unsure, and it doesn't bother me.

My uncertainty about the Mets bothers me more.

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 12 2010 07:19 AM
Re: Belief

Chad Ochoseis wrote:
Unsure. And puzzled by people who are certain one way or the other.


Well, I guess I'm "unsure" in the sense that there may or may not be some kind of higher power, but I am convinced that if that higher power exists, it hasn't revealed itself to us. All of the world's religions are, in my opinion, mythology created by ancient people in an attempt to explain things that they couldn't understand. And if there is some kind of intelligent creator out there, I don't think it's looking for any kind of "worship"; and I think its existence would be something that should be explained by science and not religion.

Anyway, that's what I think.

metsmarathon
Oct 12 2010 07:25 AM
Re: Belief

i chose that i'm unsure and it doesn't bother me. it was a close call. i believe that god must exist, in some form, but in such a way that exceeds mankind's ability to adequately comprehend and convey.

is he the proverbial watchmaker, who set the rules, set the big bang in motion, and let loose the universe to unwind of its own accord, or does he actively intervene, either directly bending his own rules the insertion of miracles or appearances on toast, or does he just dabble in the uncertainties, fixing the probabilistic interactions of subatomic particles to achieve possible but unlikely outcomes? um, i dunno. honestly, i've no clue. i think all are certainly possible, and all could fit well within our current level of understanding of the universe. the second, less so, but really, if you make the rules, you can break them. ask any politician ever.

metirish
Oct 12 2010 07:32 AM
Re: Belief

Interesting that I happen to catch a Richard Dwakins interview on TV last night followed by a local news report of The Westboro Baptist Church protesting at a Brooklyn synagogue where Assemblyman Dov Hikind tried to throttle one of them, good for him.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/201 ... _hate.html

metsmarathon
Oct 12 2010 07:34 AM
Re: Belief

in addition to explaining the physical world, i think mythology is also a way to codify the desired set of behavior that ancient peoples believed necessary to establish and maintain an orderly society, with the god(s) often playing the handy role of bad cop.

the guy in the next cave over has a hot wife. way hotter than mine. i can totally kick his ass, and take her for my own.

well, here's why you shouldn't do that...

metsguyinmichigan
Oct 12 2010 08:15 AM
Re: Belief

I'm solid in my beliefs. I can't quote chapter and verse, but I think I focus on the big picture. There are a lot of things about the organized church that I disagree with, but those are man issues instead of God issues.

The way I see it, boil it down to the basics. What does He want you to do? Treat people well. Tell the truth. Respect your parents. Don't take things that don't belong to you. Help people who need help. Remember to say "thank you," which is what I consider worship to be. Forgive people who mess up.

I think a person who really tries to do these things will end up being happy.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 12 2010 08:17 AM
Re: Belief

If there is a God, then why is there a Derek Jeter? Do you think that God is a Yankee fan?

metirish
Oct 12 2010 08:19 AM
Re: Belief

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
If there is a God, then why is there a Derek Jeter?



there is a God and He wears pinstripes.

metsmarathon
Oct 12 2010 08:25 AM
Re: Belief

yeah, but they're a bluer blue.

the yankees exist so that those whose sense of self-worth can only be defined through the success of a sports franchise may feel good about themselves. they exist as a salve for those who so lack character and resolve, and are incapable of building it for themselves, such that they might find something to latch onto.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 12 2010 08:38 AM
Re: Belief

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 12 2010 07:18 PM

In Philip Roth's latest novel, Nemesis, released last week, Bucky Cantor, the novel's central figure, is a playground director in the Weequahic section of Newark, New Jersey during a Polio outbreak, Summer of '44. As the epidemic spreads, Mr. Cantor rails against God, whom he holds responsible for maiming innocent children.

The following passage from Nemesis is consistent with my religious beliefs:

"Sometimes you're lucky and sometimes you're not. Any biography is chance, and beginning at conception, chance - the tyranny of contingency - is everything. Chance is what I believed Mr. Cantor meant when he was decrying what he called God."

Ashie62
Oct 12 2010 08:48 AM
Re: Belief

In Philip Roth's latest novel, Nemesis, released last week, Bucky Cantor, the novel's central figure, is a playground director in the Weequahic section of Newark, New Jersey during a Polio outbreak, Summer of '44. As the epidemic spreads, Mr. Cantor rails against God for maiming innocent children.

For me, the key line in Roth's novel is consistent with my own religious beliefs:

Sometimes you're lucky and sometimes you're not. Any biography is chance, and beginning at conception, chance - the tyranny of contingency - is everything. Chance is what I believed Mr. Cantor meant when he was decrying what he called God.


I'm thinking he is railing against "free will" granted by a higher power.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 12 2010 08:56 AM
Re: Belief

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 12 2010 07:19 PM

In Philip Roth's latest novel, Nemesis, released last week, Bucky Cantor, the novel's central figure, is a playground director in the Weequahic section of Newark, New Jersey during a Polio outbreak, Summer of '44. As the epidemic spreads, Mr. Cantor rails against God, whom he holds responsible for maiming innocent children.

The following passage from Nemesis is consistent with my religious beliefs:

"Sometimes you're lucky and sometimes you're not. Any biography is chance, and beginning at conception, chance - the tyranny of contingency - is everything. Chance is what I believed Mr. Cantor meant when he was decrying what he called God."


I'm thinking he is railing against "free will" granted by a higher power.


The free will to contract Polio?

Centerfield
Oct 12 2010 10:02 AM
Re: Belief

I'm unsure. I don't know that it makes me uneasy, but I'd really, really like to know.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 12 2010 10:18 AM
Re: Belief

metsmarathon wrote:
i chose that i'm unsure and it doesn't bother me. it was a close call. i believe that god must exist, in some form, but in such a way that exceeds mankind's ability to adequately comprehend and convey.


I understand whence you're coming, mm, but the "in some form" kind of opens up the discussion so widely as to render it meaningless; personal emotional "gods" ("My god is..."), a present "god" in human relationships or emotions themselves, the universe's initial pre-entropic condition, the chemical basis for carbon-based life... all this stuff and more comes into play.

I don't completely rule out the possibility of an overarching consciousness in the universe-- 'cause, well, duh-- but I see it as almost astronomically unlikely (much less so one that resembles human consciousness/corporeality in any way). I'm a much bigger believer in, say, heat death or singularities, or many, many other things I've not personally witnessed.

I see the comfort a lot of people take there, though, and though I sometimes fear some of the thinking that seems to follow from religious belief (with most folk, anyway), I admit to feeling a little bit of envy for the sense of wonder and awe they feel there on a regular basis (which I only get in spurts, when witnessing natural wonders, beautifully unlikely human relationships, or absolutely perfectly-turned double plays). If we're all poor players facing a void, it's nice to face it with a good blanket.

Frayed Knot
Oct 12 2010 10:29 AM
Re: Belief

Then there's the guy who not only an agnostic but a dyslexic insomniac to boot.
He stays up most nights questioning the existence of dog.

metirish
Oct 12 2010 10:30 AM
Re: Belief

If I still lived in Ireland I would have gotten Lorcan baptized but over here my wife and I felt no pressure to do so, why do it just for appearances sake it what we felt.

Chad Ochoseis
Oct 12 2010 10:54 AM
Re: Belief

That's it. The kid's going straight to Hell.

I've been there. It's kind of nice.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 12 2010 11:13 AM
Re: Belief

metirish wrote:
If I still lived in Ireland I would have gotten Lorcan baptized but over here my wife and I felt no pressure to do so, why do it just for appearances sake it what we felt.


We did so with Artie, more or less for the parents. We'll have a talk with her at some point down the line. (If a 14-year-old me time-traveled to see all that, he'd be cursing me out in showily multisyllabic fashion.)

sharpie
Oct 12 2010 12:54 PM
Re: Belief

My father was an athiest, I'm one and my kids are. Keeping up the family tradition.

My brother is somewhat religious, one of my sisters a bit less so. Not sure about the other sister.

My mother was raised Jewish, renounced it when she married by Catholic athiest father and late in life became an Episcopalian.

My mother-in-law wanted the kids baptized though she never gave us much grief about it. Having gone to my brother's kids baptisms, however, I couldn't in all honesty stand in front of a bunch of people and lie to them saying I would raise my kids in the church.

metsmarathon
Oct 12 2010 01:00 PM
Re: Belief

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
metsmarathon wrote:
i chose that i'm unsure and it doesn't bother me. it was a close call. i believe that god must exist, in some form, but in such a way that exceeds mankind's ability to adequately comprehend and convey.


I understand whence you're coming, mm, but the "in some form" kind of opens up the discussion so widely as to render it meaningless; personal emotional "gods" ("My god is..."), a present "god" in human relationships or emotions themselves, the universe's initial pre-entropic condition, the chemical basis for carbon-based life... all this stuff and more comes into play.


well, that's pretty much my point. to the extent that man believes in the existence of a god or gods, i believe that none of us have got him quite right, and many of us have probably got him quite wrong. to the extent that it matters, it only truly does when such beliefs stand in the way of how we behave towards each other.

themetfairy
Oct 12 2010 01:03 PM
Re: Belief

What I appreciate about Reform Judaism is that it is not based on one's beliefs; one does not have to believe in G-d to be Jewish. It's one's actions that count, not one's beliefs (or lack thereof).

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 12 2010 01:09 PM
Re: Belief

themetfairy wrote:
What I appreciate about Reform Judaism is that it is not based on one's beliefs; one does not have to believe in G-d to be Jewish. It's one's actions that count, not one's beliefs (or lack thereof).


Though I'm pretty sure their respective rabbis wouldn't find it kosher, I've known dozens of conservative/orthodox Jews who find solace in the cultural aspects of their faith, but don't actually believe.

I've known one or two Mormons who claim they're the same way. But I'd have to imagine THAT would drive one batty.

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 12 2010 01:17 PM
Re: Belief

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
themetfairy wrote:
What I appreciate about Reform Judaism is that it is not based on one's beliefs; one does not have to believe in G-d to be Jewish. It's one's actions that count, not one's beliefs (or lack thereof).


Though I'm pretty sure their respective rabbis wouldn't find it kosher, I've known dozens of conservative/orthodox Jews who find solace in the cultural aspects of their faith, but don't actually believe.

I've known one or two Mormons who claim they're the same way. But I'd have to imagine THAT would drive one batty.


I know a rabbi who eats ham. And shrimp.

themetfairy
Oct 12 2010 01:19 PM
Re: Belief

batmagadanleadoff wrote:
LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote:
themetfairy wrote:
What I appreciate about Reform Judaism is that it is not based on one's beliefs; one does not have to believe in G-d to be Jewish. It's one's actions that count, not one's beliefs (or lack thereof).


Though I'm pretty sure their respective rabbis wouldn't find it kosher, I've known dozens of conservative/orthodox Jews who find solace in the cultural aspects of their faith, but don't actually believe.

I've known one or two Mormons who claim they're the same way. But I'd have to imagine THAT would drive one batty.


I know a rabbi who eats ham. And shrimp.


Reform rabbis needn't keep Kosher.

seawolf17
Oct 12 2010 04:58 PM
Re: Belief

We discovered the Unitarian Universalist church about a year and a half ago. Rather than subscribing to any particular dogma, we're about seven principles:

* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

We're part of a small, wonderfully interesting fellowship -- I do have a hard time calling it a "church," because it defies my historical definition of what a "church" is -- that has enabled us to really connect on a very serious level with dozens of folks who have similar interests. We come from all over; mostly former Christians and Jews in some capacity for whom our prior faith just didn't seem to make much sense any more. Some of us believe in God, some don't. But we firmly believe in quality, social justice, and the like, and I'm thrilled that we're raising our kids with this group of intelligent, culturally aware people. The older kids, high school and college age, are really the type of kids we want our kids to be like.

Vince Coleman Firecracker
Oct 14 2010 06:04 AM
Re: Belief

A nit-picky, pedantic little thing, Ben: by making the choices in the poll "I believe in God..." versus "I don't believe in God..." your options presume the existence of a god and only give the responder the choice to say whether or not they believe in it. Not that you should change it or anything, and I highly doubt anyone would, i dunno, take offense or anything to the phrasing you used: it's the standard phrasing of the question; but as a nit-picky, pedantic atheist I don't want to pass up the chance to point out how our theist-centric culture hegemonically skews the language surrounding religious conversation to "other" atheists.

"I don't believe in a god..." is fine.
"I don't believe there is a god..." is better, but to put atheism on the same grounds as theism, both choices should probably be affirmations:
"I believe in a god..." versus "I believe there is no god..." is probably close to the most equitable phrasing.

Again, not that I think, in any way, you're trying to be unfair or anything, and not that you should have to change the poll, just a little something to think about if anyone wants to. Or not, whatever, I'm probably the only person who cares about this, and even I don't care all that much.

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 14 2010 06:50 AM
Re: Belief

I was kind of going for whether or not people believe in "God", meaning the God that is worshiped by the Western religions. I think there's a distinction to be made between belief in some potential higher power that has not been revealed to us, and as far as we know, has no interest in being the object of worship, and the belief in the revelation that comes from the holy books.

I do understand your points, though. But I guess that would be a different poll.

Edgy DC
Oct 14 2010 07:26 AM
Re: Belief

There's as many God-concepts as there are believers, and the God worshipped by western religions is a pretty slippery beast to contain. And no matter how you phrased it, there was going to be a lot of abstracting in the answers.

Here's my question: do all you non-believers and religous minorities mind going to children's holiday recitals and hearing a large percentage of the kids plunking out Jesus music? My wife is planning a recital for her students and certainly doesn't want to alienate her minorities. I think if the children of secular families get their kids playing secular songs, Christian families get their kids playing Chrisstian holiday songs, and Jewish families get their kids playing Jewish holiday songs, everyone will roll? Am I worng?

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 14 2010 07:33 AM
Re: Belief

Speaking for myself, I'm not offended by it. I don't mind "In God We Trust" on the money, or "under God" in the pledge, or "Silent Night" at a school Christmas recital. I know that there are those that do object to such things, but I think (and hope) that they're in the minority.

As for the recital you mentioned, I've been attending them as a parent for the last several years, and they always include something African for Kwanzaa. So if you're looking for inclusiveness, you won't want to leave that out.

Edgy DC
Oct 14 2010 07:37 AM
Re: Belief

Go Kwanzaa!

TransMonk
Oct 14 2010 07:38 AM
Re: Belief

I mind references to God and Jesus in holiday songs about as much as I mind references to Santa Claus and magic snowmen/reindeer. They all have some sort of religious/mythical/magical theme.

If it helps any or all people feel good in the month of December then I'm for all types of holiday songs, even if very few of them have any literal meaning to me.

metsmarathon
Oct 14 2010 07:51 AM
Re: Belief

i hate when holiday recitals have holiday music. i also hate when seasonal recitals have seasonal music. and i just plain hate when public institutions try to reflect the culture of their public.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 14 2010 09:08 AM
Re: Belief

I don't care what it's about... it just gots to be funky.

themetfairy
Oct 14 2010 09:09 AM
Re: Belief

Honestly, as a Jew, I don't love recitals that are very Jesus-focused (unless the recital is in a religious setting, which is a whole different question). I don't think my reaction would rise to the level of being offended. But if Cha Cha is honestly concerned with whether some of the kids' friends and relatives would be uneasy if a large percentage of the songs were Jesus-oriented, the honest answer is that I think such a program would run the risk of making some people uncomfortable.

Vince Coleman Firecracker
Oct 14 2010 09:13 AM
Re: Belief

Edgy DC wrote:
Here's my question: do all you non-believers and religous minorities mind going to children's holiday recitals and hearing a large percentage of the kids plunking out Jesus music? My wife is planning a recital for her students and certainly doesn't want to alienate her minorities. I think if the children of secular families get their kids playing secular songs, Christian families get their kids playing Chrisstian holiday songs, and Jewish families get their kids playing Jewish holiday songs, everyone will roll? Am I worng?


Only in your unorthodox spelling of the word "wrong." In theory, I've got no problem with things like public school recitals (do these things exist? I've never been in one and I don't have kids) reflecting the various cultural influences of a student body. In practice, however, I feel there's a lot of room for abuse in these things, especially in the more culturally homogeneous parts of the country. It's one thing to celebrate all the cultural influences surrounding a holiday (Christian, secular, Jewish, uh, pagan, etc.), and another to have twenty First Noels and Away in a Mangers with only a token Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel thrown in. Plus, the best Christmas songs are secular anyway (Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas, Winter Wonderland, White Christmas, etc. =) )

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
I don't mind "In God We Trust" on the money, or "under God" in the pledge


These, on the other hand, I've got a big problem with. Both these things are recent, politically-motivated, anti-communist knee-jerk McCarthyist attacks on atheism that are both unconstitutional and un-American.

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 14 2010 09:35 AM
Re: Belief

I don't take them as attacks on atheism, rather I see them as professions of faith. I don't believe in God, but I don't mind his name on the money any more than I mind the creepy eye-hovering-over-the-pyramid thing.

Vince Coleman Firecracker
Oct 14 2010 09:55 AM
Re: Belief

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
I don't take them as attacks on atheism, rather I see them as professions of faith. I don't believe in God, but I don't mind his name on the money any more than I mind the creepy eye-hovering-over-the-pyramid thing.


Well, take them as you want to, of course, but when taken in context, the introductions of these two phrases were an attack on atheism; specifically Marxism and the like. Their entire purpose was to proclaim that America is a theist nation, as opposed to (supposedly) atheist communist countries. By labelling America a theist nation (and, by doing so, attempting to establish a national religious belief; namely that there is a god "over"our country), law makers from the 50's and 60's were singling out atheism as un-American. And, you know, fuck that shit.

One thing I'm getting out of this poll is that while Poolers are about roughly split into thirds between atheists, theists and agnosticts, almost none of us feel any angst about our religous beliefs.

Edgy DC
Oct 14 2010 09:58 AM
Re: Belief

I feel angst over everything.

Mets? Angst.

God? Angst.

The clothes I picked out this morning? Angsty angst.

Hitting submit on this post? Lots of angst.

metirish
Oct 14 2010 09:59 AM
Re: Belief

This is a great thread, God love you all......it's been a blessing to have joined in on the conversation....peace be with you

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 14 2010 10:12 AM
Re: Belief

And also with you.

themetfairy
Oct 14 2010 10:21 AM
Re: Belief

metirish wrote:
This is a great thread, God love you all......it's been a blessing to have joined in on the conversation....peace be with you


Amen!

batmagadanleadoff
Oct 14 2010 10:22 AM
Re: Belief

themetfairy wrote:
themetfairy wrote:
What I appreciate about Reform Judaism is that it is not based on one's beliefs; one does not have to believe in G-d to be Jewish. It's one's actions that count, not one's beliefs (or lack thereof).


Though I'm pretty sure their respective rabbis wouldn't find it kosher, I've known dozens of conservative/orthodox Jews who find solace in the cultural aspects of their faith, but don't actually believe.

I've known one or two Mormons who claim they're the same way. But I'd have to imagine THAT would drive one batty.


I know a rabbi who eats ham. And shrimp.


Reform rabbis needn't keep Kosher.


Neither do the non-reform rabbis, apparently.

dgwphotography
Oct 14 2010 11:34 AM
Re: Belief

Yes, I believe in God, and I also believe his last miracle was the '69 Mets - he said so himself...

Benjamin Grimm
Oct 14 2010 11:43 AM
Re: Belief

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr
Oct 14 2010 12:07 PM
Re: Belief

I put my imaginary faith in an earthier kind of God. A Borgnine-y God.

metsguyinmichigan
Oct 14 2010 01:14 PM
Re: Belief

Growing up on Long Island and living in Michigan has provided me an interesting contrast. Folks out here just don't know much about Judaism. That's a shame. One of our photographers was a fellow New Yorker, and once we looked in horror at our food section, which tried to do a story about Passover foods and the headline was "On the Rise."

No Jewish holidays off from school, and they have a vague concept of what Hanukkah is.

That said, they always seemed to toss a Hanukkah song into the elementary school holiday concert. And they should, as school should be about learning about other people and their culture.

I don't mind when towns have a nativity scene, and the local -- and lonely -- temple places a giant menorah nearby.