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The Pond Scums vs our Little Expansion Brothers Round 2 NLCS

mlbaseballtalk Oct 09 2005 07:18 PM

Ah just thought I get this sucker started a few days in advance

ScarletKnight41 Oct 09 2005 07:19 PM

My 12-year-old is a Cardinals fan. I hate Roger Clemens. Go Cards!

Valadius Oct 09 2005 07:22 PM

It's a repeat of last year. Hopefully it will be just as dramatic, if not more so.

smg58 Oct 09 2005 10:30 PM

Gotta pull for the underdogs. An Astros win would be doubly impressive given the way their season started.

sharpie Oct 10 2005 11:47 AM

Astros. If the Mets aren't in it I am officially for the team that has been shut out the longest. So, Astros over Cards, Chisox over either Yankees or Angels. Chisox over Astros (Sox haven't won WS since 1917, Stros have never been so this could be a great season for both teams).

SI Metman Oct 10 2005 04:06 PM

At this point I'm rooting for a White Sox-Astros series. It would be similiar to the 2002 WS where both teams had a 40+ year drought.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 10 2005 04:16 PM

White Sox-Astros would be fun. I'd be pulling for Chicago in that one. I noticed somebody in the Fenway crowd during game 3 holding up a sign reading "1917" and thought that was awfully nervy. Let the White Sox get the monkey off their backs. Meanwhile, I'd like to see the Cubs at least get to the 100-year mark before winning a World Series. No championships on the North Side until 2009 at the earliest. And really, I'd be happy to live long enough to see them get to 150 years. (I'd have to make it to the age of 95.) Maybe I should settle for 140 years.

sharpie Oct 10 2005 04:25 PM

The possibility of a Yankee-Cardinal series depresses me.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 10 2005 04:29 PM

That would suck.

SI Metman Oct 10 2005 04:51 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Meanwhile, I'd like to see the Cubs at least get to the 100-year mark before winning a World Series. No championships on the North Side until 2009 at the earliest. And really, I'd be happy to live long enough to see them get to 150 years. (I'd have to make it to the age of 95.) Maybe I should settle for 140 years. Steve Bartman ruined it. The books were supposed to read: 2003: Chicago Cubs World Champions 2004: Boston Red Sox World Champions 2005: Chicago White Sox World Champions.

Elster88 Oct 10 2005 04:53 PM

Sadly, the Yankees would've beaten the shit out of that Cub team. The reason they lost to the Marlins was named Josh Beckett.

Edgy DC Oct 10 2005 08:28 PM

Steve Bartman did not cause the Cubs to lose. The Marlins --- and the Cubs themselves --- caused the Cubs to lose.

mlbaseballtalk Oct 12 2005 07:32 PM

Bump for Game 1 TONIGHT! Oh! ANNNNNDYYY! (thats taken from the Michael Kay Show's Joey Salvia's "Mandy" inspired Valentine songs to Pettitte) vs Chris "Don't call me Mr. Tool Time" Carpenter

Zvon Oct 12 2005 09:13 PM

I want Houston to make it to the Big Show myself. But watching I have to say that the Cards are such a sound baseball team fundimentally that the 'Stos work is certainly cut out for them. I mean, the Cards just telegraphed that squeeze bunt to everyone in the world and still pull it off perfectly. 3-0 cards, in the 3rd.

Zvon Oct 12 2005 10:22 PM

wowzers. Burke just hit another post season pinch hit homer for the Asstros. A 2 run shot puts Houston on the board. St Loo still has the lead tho, 5-2

Zvon Oct 12 2005 10:25 PM

I guess that clinching homer wasnt actually a pinch hit homer. Or was it? Cuz he came in to run for Berkman in that game. Does that at-bat still qualify as a pinch hit?

Zvon Oct 12 2005 11:03 PM

Cards win, 5-3. A rather boring game.

Edgy DC Oct 12 2005 11:10 PM

Ex-Factor Vizcaino Wheeler vs. Isringhausen

Zvon Oct 13 2005 10:11 PM

Zvon wrote: Cards win, 5-3. A rather boring game. I still love a boring game. Cuz its baseball. So far tonights game is also technically boring, with Houston up 2-0 in the 6th. But the game is never really boring to true students of the game.

Zvon Oct 13 2005 10:13 PM

.....and just when I say that Edmunds makes a fantastic catch and wakes me right up.

Nymr83 Oct 13 2005 10:45 PM

]The books were supposed to read: 2003: Chicago Cubs World Champions 2004: Boston Red Sox World Champions 2005: Chicago White Sox World Champions 2006: World Ends.

Valadius Oct 14 2005 12:04 AM

Astros tie the series up 1-1. Check this out: Reggie Sanders looks like he's a ballet dancer or something...

Zvon Oct 14 2005 01:16 AM

Valadius wrote: Reggie Sanders looks like he's a ballet dancer or something... that was funny enuff to watch live, but that photo takes the cake. Live I actually thought at 1st the ball hit off his head.Lol.

SI Metman Oct 14 2005 01:32 AM

Well the 'Stros put themselves a game better than last year when they went to the Juice Box down 2-0. The aging headhunter goes for them in Game 3. I'm going to feel dirty rooting for Clemens.

sharpie Oct 14 2005 09:17 AM

While I had announced here that I was for the Astros, last night I found myself pulling for the Cardinals. The Clemens factor, plus the fact that I have a knee-jerk anti-Texas team thing seems to be swaying me. I think I'm now netural.

Zvon Oct 15 2005 08:55 PM

sharpie wrote: While I had announced here that I was for the Astros, last night I found myself pulling for the Cardinals. The Clemens factor, plus the fact that I have a knee-jerk anti-Texas team thing seems to be swaying me. I think I'm now netural. thats perfectly natural when your team is not in it. Emotional tides can turn easily when there is no vested interest. Clemens pitched a fine game today and Houston wins its second game of the NLCS. That was his 32nd post season career start. WOW. He's 12-8. Lidge wasnt perfect in closing but did get it done. It was a good game, 4-3 the final score. The Cards are banged up.....they lost Sanders the other day and lost Nunez today, who has been playing 3rd for the injured Scott Rolin. I would think Sanders will be back before the series is over, and I think the Cards need him in there.

seawolf17 Oct 16 2005 07:36 PM

Phil Cuzzi is slowly going crazy behind the plate. He threw out LaRussa in the bottom of the seventh for arguing balls and strikes, and now he just threw out Edmonds on a bad call on a 3-1 pitch (Cuzzi called it strike 2, Edmonds said something and got tossed). The last time a manager was thrown out of a postseason game was 1999... Jimy Williams, I think.

seawolf17 Oct 16 2005 07:57 PM

The Cards get runners on the corners with nobody out, down by a run, in the top of the ninth. A bouncer to third, Ensberg comes home and throws out Pujols. Nobody called time, though, and Larry Walker snuck into third base without a throw. So now it's first-and-third again with one out. Heads up play by Walker.

seawolf17 Oct 16 2005 07:59 PM

And Mabry hits a slow roller in the hole on the right side, but somehow Eric Bruntlett gets to it, and somehow gets it to Adam Everett for one, who somehow gets it over to first to get Mabry -- who apparently must have run into a construction detour or something on the way down the line -- at first for the ol' 4-6-3 game-ending DP. Astros up 3 games to 1 heading into tomorrow. Wow.

Zvon Oct 16 2005 09:12 PM

seawolf17 wrote: Phil Cuzzi is slowly going crazy behind the plate. He threw out LaRussa in the bottom of the seventh for arguing balls and strikes, and now he just threw out Edmonds on a bad call on a 3-1 pitch (Cuzzi called it strike 2, Edmonds said something and got tossed). The last time a manager was thrown out of a postseason game was 1999... Jimy Williams, I think. once again an ump plays a bigger role than he should. LaRussa was tossed before he ever left the dugout and Edmunds was tossed without even any physical contact. i guess you cant talk like a man to umps these days..... It was a very interesting argument to watch with LaRussa, when he did come out after getting tossed, cuz the crew chief kept playin a pick on him, so he couldnt even get in the proper words with Cuzzi to make it all seem worthwhile. A good game that becomes soiled by B.S. I wont even get into how bad the strike calls were.......

Zvon Oct 16 2005 09:14 PM

="seawolf17"]And Mabry hits a slow roller in the hole on the right side, but somehow Eric Bruntlett gets to it, and somehow gets it to Adam Everett for one, who somehow gets it over to first to get Mabry -- who apparently must have run into a construction detour or something on the way down the line -- at first for the ol' 4-6-3 game-ending DP. Astros up 3 games to 1 heading into tomorrow. Wow. I really didnt think they could turn that DP. I dont think anyone did. You see the way they jumped around afterward like they won the whole series,lol.

SI Metman Oct 17 2005 11:05 PM

The Killer Bees strike in the 7th of Game 5. Biggio, Burke, and then Berkman's 3 run bomb to put the Astros 6 outs away from Chicago.

metirish Oct 17 2005 11:07 PM

Yep a huge rally from the Astros, the Cards have not hit a lick this series,MMP went crazy when Berkman hit that one out...

SI Metman Oct 17 2005 11:27 PM

and 45 years ago tonight, the Houston Colt 45's were born in a Chicago hotel. Call it destiny.

Willets Point Oct 17 2005 11:28 PM

Three outs away from a very, very happy Switch Hitter Annie! Make that two!

Willets Point Oct 17 2005 11:31 PM

One more out until the Class of '62's fifth NL Pennant.

Willets Point Oct 17 2005 11:32 PM

Eckstein keeps the Cards alive with a single.

Willets Point Oct 17 2005 11:37 PM

Pujols against Lige with 2 on. Heart attack time if you're an Astros fan.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 17 2005 11:37 PM

Holy god.

Willets Point Oct 17 2005 11:38 PM

Holy fucking shit, you can't script shit like that!!!! 3-run kaboom by Pujols.

metirish Oct 17 2005 11:38 PM

Pujols is freaking money...wow

SI Metman Oct 17 2005 11:38 PM

Cards in 7. No way in hell you come back from that one.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 17 2005 11:39 PM

Holy crap. That one swing can turn everything around.

Willets Point Oct 17 2005 11:41 PM

Look for "the Astros are cursed" legends to spring up everywhere now. That's fucking hearbreaking!

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2005 11:41 PM

Great Googly Moogly!!!!! I wonder if this is a sign that Lidge has some sort of mental deficiency?

metirish Oct 17 2005 11:42 PM

This is why baseball is the greatest game...I love it.

SI Metman Oct 17 2005 11:42 PM

1986 all over again. ALCS, not NLCS though.

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2005 11:44 PM

Man that joint got quiet in a hurry!!

metirish Oct 17 2005 11:46 PM

David Eckstein and Edmonds should get great credit for their AB's...somehwere in Texas Annie is crying, I feel bad for her.

metirish Oct 17 2005 11:50 PM

Cards win, wow, this is why I love this game....Lidge must feel like crap, the job of closer is the pitts.

Willets Point Oct 17 2005 11:53 PM

"Astros fans, my advice to you is to start drinking heavily."

Frayed Knot Oct 17 2005 11:59 PM

Hey, this is fine w/me. We would have had to go the entire week w/o baseball otherwise.

smg58 Oct 18 2005 12:01 AM

I can remember somebody in the preseason for ESPN.com listing the best and worst moves of the offseason. The first item in his worst moves list was the Cardinals signing Eckstein. Some people just refuse to get it. Lidge has been worked a lot, and looked fatigued last night while barely escaping. He threw two great pitches to Eckstein to go 1-2, but Eckstein did a great job of defensive hitting. Then I knew Lidge was in trouble. If he had anything left in the tank, he would have at least made Edmonds hit his way on. His only hope at that point was that Pujols would just miss, and, well, that didn't happen. I guess there is joy in Mudville tonight. Mighty Casey delivered. Big time.

metirish Oct 18 2005 12:05 AM

Eckstein is the last hitter you want to see up , he just never seems to get himself out, he's just annoying and pesky and it seems every AB is foul ball after foul ball with him....he does the job.

smg58 Oct 18 2005 12:16 AM

Dear God, now I'm Pepe Mangual. I first got baseball cards back in 1976, and two of the first Met cards I got were for Del Unser and Wayne Garrett. Imagine my shock and horror when my Dad tells me they just got traded for some guy named Pepe Mangual. Should I be embarrassed that I remember that detail?

Frayed Knot Oct 18 2005 12:22 AM

Eckstein's surprised me to a certain degree as well. Not that I thought he was bad, just maybe that StL overpaid for what they'd get. Turns out that he had the best year of that 3-team* SS "swap" which is something I wouldn't have guessed either. And I still can't help thinking that one of his throws is just going to plummet & stop on the way to 1st. That said, he did pump up his numbers this year a bit; BA up 18 pts, OBA up 34, Slg up 63, xtra base-hits from 27 to 41 ... while Renterea in particular struggled. HE might have had the worst year of the 3 (30 errors) but I was real impressed with Cabrera's defense over the past 2 series. * Cabrera from Bos to Ana Eckstein from Ana to StL Renterea from StL to Bos

Johnny Dickshot Oct 18 2005 12:26 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 18 2005 12:28 AM

I'm always up for seeing Roger Clemens blow a game 7. edit: And I remember the dreaded Pepe Mangual trade.

metirish Oct 18 2005 12:26 AM

Frayed Knot a question, out of the three who would you want at the plate tonight in that situation?...

metirish Oct 18 2005 12:28 AM

]I'm always up for seeing Roger Clemens blow a game 7. I had a dream about that..game seven Rajah gives up a grand slam and the ChiSox win the WS..

Johnny Dickshot Oct 18 2005 12:33 AM

I think RC is scheduled for Game 7 in this series...

seawolf17 Oct 18 2005 05:44 AM

That Pujols homer was sick. He crushed it. Good comparison on the Dave Henderson blast. In Bill Simmons lingo, that was a Level 2 Stomach Punch loss.

martin Oct 18 2005 07:01 AM

nike needs to bring back scary face pujols. that big homer last night, it kind of creeped me out. devastating.

seawolf17 Oct 18 2005 07:38 AM

Also lost in last night's broadcast was Tim McCarver's statement that "the largest state in the U.S. has never hosted a World Series game"! No shit, Tim. It's because they don't have a freaking major league baseball team, dick. I don't know what happened to Timmy, who I thought was so good when he was doing Mets games when I was a kid, but he's losing it.

cooby Oct 18 2005 07:41 AM

Well, he did get his training from Ralph

Willets Point Oct 18 2005 07:51 AM

Don't give Bud any ideas. "To further promote the great game of baseball, this year's World Series games will be played in Anchorage and Juneau!"

Frayed Knot Oct 18 2005 09:58 AM

metirish wrote: Frayed Knot a question, out of the three who would you want at the plate tonight in that situation?... This season that answer is probably Eckstein. Over the last 5 years or so I'd take Renterea. btw; I got a kick out of that 'largest state' comment too but it wasn't McCarver, it was Brennerman.. McCarver/Buck aren't doing the NL game. Maybe Seawolf is losing it too?

holychicken Oct 18 2005 10:06 AM

Does anyone know how far it travelled? Seriously he CRUSHED that thing and I can't find a "estimated distance." Not that it really matters. But I was curious . . . and now I can't find it.

Elster88 Oct 18 2005 10:07 AM

="seawolf17"]Also lost in last night's broadcast was Tim McCarver's statement that "the largest state in the U.S. has never hosted a World Series game"! No shit, Tim. It's because they don't have a freaking major league baseball team, dick. I don't know what happened to Timmy, who I thought was so good when he was doing Mets games when I was a kid, but he's losing it. Well, Timmy is an idiot, but I think for a different reason than you are thinking. I'm pretty sure he was referring to Texas, not Alaska. So is he dumber if he says that Alaska has never hosted a game, or dumber if he doesn't know what the biggest state is?

Elster88 Oct 18 2005 10:09 AM

holychicken wrote: Does anyone know how far it travelled? Seriously he CRUSHED that thing and I can't find a "estimated distance." Not that it really matters. But I was curious . . . and now I can't find it. They said 412 on SportsCenter. Looked like longer than that to me.

seawolf17 Oct 18 2005 10:10 AM

Oh, I lost it a long time ago. Between my morning migraine and the blood gushing out of my chin, I forgot who called the game last night. My apologies to the esteemed Mr. McCarver. On the distance question: even Baseball Tonight's page on espn.com doesn't list the distance. I think it's because nobody could find a tape measure that long, and even computers can't count that high. edit: I know he was referring to Texas. I'm just saying his geography was a little faulty.

holychicken Oct 18 2005 10:16 AM

Cool, thanks guys

HahnSolo Oct 18 2005 10:33 AM

My first knee jerk reaction when he walked Edmonds was "walk Albert." I know it goes against convention putting the tying run on second, but should Garner/Lidge have even considered it? wouldnt you rather face Sanders there with the bags drunk?

Centerfield Oct 18 2005 11:19 AM

The amazing thing about that was how the park when silent before Pujols' HR. Amazing. One of the greatest baseball moments I've ever seen.

Willets Point Oct 18 2005 11:23 AM

That game is an intstant classic.

Willets Point Oct 18 2005 11:56 AM

19 pages of joy and agony.

metirish Oct 18 2005 12:28 PM

from the above IGT...and no I didn't read all 19 pages, just the last few after Pujols homered.. ]guys, i dont know what happened. we were only 1 out away.. why didnt they just walk pujols... Do you tell your stud closer to walk Pujols and go git Saunders?

ScarletKnight41 Oct 18 2005 12:30 PM

From the first page, an hour before game time - ]I agree with you, I can't handle any more of these nailbiters.. Oh man - he got that and then some.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 18 2005 12:36 PM

Not for nothin, but the Astros really aren't good enough not to get into nailbiters every night. Their offense flat out suxxx. I'm fairly ambivalent about who wins it all, I just want good games, but was thinking in the 9th inning that with the White Sox already in it'd only be right for the cardinals to go with them in an non-WC World Series, with the 2 best longhaul teams going at it.

MFS62 Oct 18 2005 12:40 PM

Has anyone seen any estimate of how far that homer went? I did a quick calculation. It was hit toward left center, so I'd estimate the distance to the fence is 365-370 feet. Then you add at least 30 rows of seats at at least another 100 feet. Then it went over the back wall and hit the glass. That wall had to be at least 80 feet high. Without the glass to stop it, I figure it would have gone about 530 feet or more. Annie, was there any figure given in the Houston papers? Later

Centerfield Oct 18 2005 12:55 PM

The nominations are in for worst advice ever: spursfan2020: guys, i dont wanna screw this up.. should i keep on my rally cap? CjW 2k5: Take it off Spursfan. Save that mojo for the World Series!!!! CjW was tempting the fates all throughout the thread...posting pics of champagne, numerous references to "Lights Out Lidge". If he were here, he would be banned by now.

metirish Oct 18 2005 01:21 PM

Taken from Buster Olney's article from today... ]The bins of champagne rested in the middle of the Astros' clubhouse, cresting with bottles, right between the big screen television and the couches. Plastic blanketed the lockers, to protect them from the celebration that was to come. Just one more out and half of Texas would come through those doors and celebrate the first World Series appearance for a 44-year-old franchise. I'd not thought about that, had to be even tougher to walk into the club house with all that there. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2005/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=2194717

Frayed Knot Oct 18 2005 01:27 PM

Better yet, read the part in [u:8f4af1d5e7]Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty[/u:8f4af1d5e7] where the clubhouse crew had to first do up the NYY clubhouse in anticipation of their impending win ... and then tear it all down and move things over to the Arizona side when the 9th inning fell apart. And through it all is superstitious Steinbrenner screaming at the poor kids working there that "it's all your fault" if the Yanx don't win because he didn't want them "jinx it" by setting up until the game was over despite the logisitcal nightmare it would have been for both the MLB & FOX folks.

MFS62 Oct 18 2005 01:28 PM

This morning on the Mike and Mike show on ESPN radio, one of them said that the clubhouse attandants had to scurry to put the corks back in the champagne bottles. He may have been joking, but.... Later

Willets Point Oct 18 2005 01:42 PM

Someone in Ken Burns' Baseball mentions the Red Sox clubhouse at Shea being cleaned up right quick after Game Six.

metirish Oct 18 2005 01:48 PM

IIRC Bob Costas tells of standing next to Mrs Yawkey with the vistors clubhouse all set for a celebration and when the Mets came back to win Mrs Yawkey being shuffled away from the scene.

Elster88 Oct 18 2005 01:59 PM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Oct 19 2005 10:18 AM

I thought about posting a poll, but we already have a thread. Would you have walked Pujols yesterday? If you feel like playing along, please respond in bold. Yes - 0% No --------------------------------------------- 100 (8 votes)%

Elster88 Oct 18 2005 01:59 PM

No

Yancy Street Gang Oct 18 2005 02:01 PM

I know that the circumstances aren't exactly the same, but Pujols' homer can't help but remind me of the one hit by Mike Scioscia off Doc Gooden in 1988. The biggest difference is that the 1988 game wouldn't have clinched the pennant. Also, after that game, the Mets and Dodgers were tied at two games apiece. Here the Astros at least still have an advantage, and only have to win one of the next two to clinch. But I can't discount momentum, which clearly favors the Cardinals. Was it Game 5 in the 1986 ALCS when Donnie Moore gave up that homer to Dave Henderson? Maybe that's a closer parallel.

Frayed Knot Oct 18 2005 02:13 PM

Would you have walked Pujols yesterday? NO As good as Albert is, you'd still be going from a situation where a HR beats you and a double ties it -- to one where they just need a Reggie Sanders single to tie the game and a double or HR to beat you. Not good odds IMO.

seawolf17 Oct 18 2005 02:26 PM

No. I don't see any reason to walk Pujols there. That's an unfair second-guess. Your closer has been so good all year; you send him out there to get outs, not pitch around guys.

SwitchHitter Oct 18 2005 02:30 PM

MFS62 wrote: Annie, was there any figure given in the Houston papers? I don't know. My beloved takes the paper to work with him every day so he can do the crossword puzzle.

Edgy DC Oct 18 2005 02:32 PM

There's a figure in this thread.

metirish Oct 18 2005 02:32 PM

NO....it was a strange AB with Edmonds though, looked like he couldn't find the SZ

seawolf17 Oct 18 2005 02:32 PM

Annie, thanks for checking in. Sorry about last night; go get 'em on Wednesday! (Except I'll be rooting for the Cardinals.)

SwitchHitter Oct 18 2005 02:34 PM

]Would you have walked Pujols yesterday? A better poll is would you have used a PH for Pettitte in the 4th with runners on 1B and 2B with one out or have him bunt them over?

SwitchHitter Oct 18 2005 02:37 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 19 2005 11:45 AM

No But I wouldn't've wallked Edmonds, either. :)

Edgy DC Oct 18 2005 02:43 PM

Are two peeps posting with Annie's profile?

sharpie Oct 18 2005 02:49 PM

Looked to me like Lidge was too pumped after he got 2 outs, thinking he had it in the bag.

metirish Oct 18 2005 02:53 PM

]Looked to me like Lidge was too pumped after he got 2 outs, thinking he had it in the bag. Bob Brenly said that a few times after he got the two outs.

Centerfield Oct 18 2005 03:01 PM

NO. Even if the same exact situation presented itself in Game 6, I would pitch to Pujols again. I would just, you know, try to pitch to him better.

SwitchHitter Oct 18 2005 03:01 PM

It's just me--I forgot to vote in the poll when I made my suggestion so I voted seperately.

Willets Point Oct 18 2005 03:48 PM

I'll add to the resounding chorus of NO in this thread. Intentional walking is for losers. Annie, sorry for the heartbreaking loss. I'm rooting for your guys to tie it up on Wednesday.

rpackrat Oct 18 2005 04:57 PM

I was watching last night when Fox, with 1 out in the top of the 9th, named Lance Berkman Player of the Game. I turned to my wife and said "that seems premature. What if Pujols hits a 3run HR to win it for the Cards?" It really bugs me when TV broadcasts nema a player of the game before the game is over.

Elster88 Oct 18 2005 06:14 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 19 2005 10:16 AM

That was a huge topic of discussion on the radio today. That stuff doesn't bother Elster88 so much. But when they flashed "Boston - World Champions" in Game Six...THAT would've bothered Elster88. _____________________________ This post had the designation 138) Rickey Henderson

Frayed Knot Oct 18 2005 11:33 PM

That 'Player of the Game' stuff exists solely for the sponsor product tie-ins so they have to announce it before things are over otherwise no one would ever hear it. Not worth getting upset about. Marty Barrett, you may recall, was PotG in '86-Game 6. The 'Congrats Boston Red Sox' message is one of those things that's kinda funny in retrospect even though it - like Keith's famous beer drinking after his AB - would have become a critical flashpoint among fans had the results not turned out happy. Turns out that they had the message ready to roll and the operator hit the wrong button which put it on the real scoreboard instead of the preview screen. Oops!

smg58 Oct 19 2005 12:49 AM

I too have to vote no. Good luck tomorrow SH.

Rockin' Doc Oct 19 2005 08:39 AM NO....

Better late than never, I guess. As Frayed Knot clearly outlined, the percentages were better pitching to Pujols than walking him. Garner made the proper decision by having Lidge pitch to Pujols. Unfortunately for the Astros, not all moves work out as planned, even when they are the correct move.

Willets Point Oct 19 2005 11:52 AM

History is not on Houston's side.

SwitchHitter Oct 19 2005 11:55 AM

History is today viewed from tomorrow. You can't change history, but you can make it.

Willets Point Oct 19 2005 12:00 PM

I agree. I just found it fascinating how many times the Astros have been in this situation and failed and vice versa for the Cardinals. But none of that means anything on tonight's game imho.

SwitchHitter Oct 19 2005 12:20 PM

Well, that's why I said in another thread that it turns out the Braves have some history with the Astros and was an additional reason for me to hate them. But I started out hating them. My second-best friend (my 2B is my best friend) hates the Mets because of history. He also doesn't like Nolan Ryan because of that game in 1980. Nolan Ryan is my favorite historical Astro and, because y'all are so nice to me, I pull for the Mets when they're not facing the Astros. But I'm acknowledged to be weird. I have a favorite team in each division. The only one I follow is the Astros because that's my team, but there's a team I like in each division and when I watch Game of the Week on FOX, if one of my teams is playing, I'll root for them.

HahnSolo Oct 19 2005 12:31 PM

The Donnie Moore/Dave Henderson talk from that article is WAY premature. If Houston wins tonight, and let's say Lidge polishes off a 4-out save, everyone, from Lidge, to his teammates, to half the state of Texas will have forgotten about Pujols's home run before they even board their flight to Chicago. The Moore/Kim/Niedenfuer talk should be shelved until Houston loses games six and seven.

MFS62 Oct 19 2005 03:38 PM

From someone with a screename Cardinal70: http://p216.ezboard.com/fdtfcdtfcstlouiscardinalsforum.showMessage?topicID=248.topic ]Pujols At The Bat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The outlook wasn’t brilliant for the Cardinal nine that day The score stood four to two with but one inning more to play And so, when J-Rod went down on strikes and Mabry did the same A pallor wreathed the features of the fans of Redbird fame. A straggling few turned off the tube, the rest Clung to the hope that springs eternal in the human breast They thought, “If only Pujols could get a whack, at that We’d put up even money now, with Pujols at the bat.” But Eck preceded Pujols, and so did Jimmy E, The former was a pipsqueak and the latter one for three. So upon that stricken multitude a death-like silence sat. With Lidge there seemed but little chance of Pujols getting to the bat. But Eck bounced a single when he only had one strike more And Edmonds, the streaky slugger, then went and took ball four. So when the dust had settled, oh what a sight to see! There was Eckstein safe at second, and on first was Jimmy E. Then all across Cardinal Nation there arose a joyous yell It rumbled in the mountaintops, it rattled in the dell. It rolled against Busch Stadium and recoiled to where Walt sat For Pujols, mighty Pujols, was advancing to the bat. There was ease in Pujols’ manner as he stepped up to the plate. There was pride in Pujols’ bearing, and focus upon his face. And when, with panic building, Houston fans started sounding flat, No stranger in the crowd could doubt, twas Pujols at the bat. All Cardinal eyes were on him as he knelt upon the dirt Praying for the strength to on that baseball put a hurt. And as the writhing pitcher got a visit on the mound There was a noticeable drop in the level of the sound. And now the leather-covered sphere comes hurtling through the air And Pujols took a rip at it, missing it with inches to spare A slider from the closer Lidge had been the pitch he missed A groan went up from St. Louis, Houston cheered and hissed. From the benches, black with people, came decibels of sound As the Astros looked to be moving to the next round. And now Lidge holds the ball, and now he lets it go, And now the air is shattered by the force of Pujols’ blow. Oh all across Cardinal Nation, the sun is shining bright Bands are playing somewhere, and all the hearts are light So many men are laughing and telling their children of the sight, Because Albert Pujols hit the baseball long into the Texas night. Not bad. Later

Yancy Street Gang Oct 19 2005 03:46 PM

No, not bad at all. I only have two gripes about it: ]Praying for the strength to on that baseball put a hurt. Could that line be more awkward? ]And Edmonds, the streaky slugger, then went and took ball four. So when the dust had settled, oh what a sight to see! There was Eckstein safe at second, and on first was Jimmy E. The "dust had settled" phrase was lifted from the original, which is fine, but in the original the dust was kicked up by Jimmy Blake sliding in to second with a double. I don't envision much dust being kicked up by a walk with a runner on first. But a nice job overall. A labor of love from a happy Cardinals fan.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 19 2005 04:08 PM

Durn good. Bonus fact: Until he died in 1943, former Phillies pitcher Dan Casey never disabused the notion that he was "The Mighty Casey" as referred to in the poem. He appeared as a guest at ballparks all over and soaked up the attention. Except, he was lying the whole time, and knew it, because before 1909, he merely referred to himself as the brother of the Mighty Casey, his real-life brother Dennis. Except, Dennis, who died in 1909, was lying the whole time and he knew it too. Dan & Dennis Casey were teammates on the 1884 Wilmington Quicksteps.

Zvon Oct 19 2005 08:17 PM

Willets Point wrote: Holy fucking shit, you can't script shit like that!!!! 3-run kaboom by Pujols. No you cant WP. That was unfreakinbelievable. Shock and awe. It always occurs to you,'what if', but I still could not believe he did it. Someone said it was like the 88 Scoscia homer, and it MUST have been for Asstros fans. Cuz it sucked the air right out of the room for me. I didnt have that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach tho, like in '88. But Asstros fans did,....you can be sure of that. Unfreakin believeable. I still say Houston takes it and makes it to the big show. You cant dodge two bullets like Oswalt and Clemens. *Z commences crossing his fingers..............

mlbaseballtalk Oct 19 2005 09:22 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: The 'Congrats Boston Red Sox' message is one of those things that's kinda funny in retrospect even though it - like Keith's famous beer drinking after his AB - would have become a critical flashpoint among fans had the results not turned out happy. Turns out that they had the message ready to roll and the operator hit the wrong button which put it on the real scoreboard instead of the preview screen. Oops! Two things about that with Mex 1) That, along with an incident described in Peter Golenbock's "Amazin" where he actually campaigned for Kevin McReynolds to get the MVP over Strawberry in 1988 and I'm sure a few others, makes me question Hernandez's true "leadership" qualities, and that maybe he was quite overated/overblown/overstated in that regard 2) Bonilla and Henderson caught tons of abuse (granted with Bonilla it was more piling on) for their card game during Game 6 1999 NLCS. So much that Bonilla was gone almost instantaniously and Henderson was sent packing after an unproductive early 2000. So not only would Mex catch grief, but what about a nude Kevin Mitchell calling for plane reservations at the same time! Well now Mitchell gets chuckles because he went up there without, erm, his protection, to deliver his hit. Which brings up another question about Hernandez's true leadership. The guy just made the second out of the inning and the best he can do is sulk in the locker room because he doesn't want to see the season end "that way?" Oh that says alot about his faith in Gary Carter by the way... 3) The other part of that story is that Keith wasn't moving from his seat due to supersitiousness. I'd have to check the timeline again from a tape I have, wheither or not it happened after the wild pitch to score Mitchell, but Keith is clearly shown IN THE DUGOUT rooting the team on and it doesn't look like he was planning on coming out there for the top of the 12th. Really does say something about the "Captain" of that team though if he'd rather not move from his seat when the Mets are making the rally of the year Come to think of it, I don't think the Mets ever had a, for lack of a better example, Derek Jeter-esque time of guy. Usually its been the silent "lead by example" guys like a Piazza, and Hernandez, or pitchers like Seaver and Franco who obviously could not be in the dugout every single moment the way a Jeter like "rally the troops" guy can be Steve

Zvon Oct 19 2005 09:35 PM

so far,....good game from a Houston perspective. Asstros up 3-0 in the 5th. Oswalt is pitchin great so far.

SI Metman Oct 19 2005 09:42 PM

This is playing out like Game 7 of the '86 World Series. Is that El Sid coming out of the pen?

Edgy DC Oct 19 2005 09:56 PM

I'm not sure the Yankees have ever had a Derek Jeter-esque guy either. I respect Derek Jeter, but a lot of his character is myth, and, examined under the lens you're quite fairly putting Keith under, would likely turn out to be almost as human as Keith was.

metirish Oct 19 2005 10:46 PM

Astros winning this one with ease behind the brilliant Oswalt,5 - 1 in the 7th.

Zvon Oct 19 2005 10:58 PM

So this could be the last game ever at Busch. Look at the diference in sizes between 'ol Busch and their new stadium on the left.

metirish Oct 19 2005 11:10 PM

What a difference in styles, the new place in that pic looks a bit like PNC Park, seems to be the trend in new Parks today.

Zvon Oct 19 2005 11:15 PM

...for all i know they may still be adding another tier there,...i dunno. but yea, all the parks are gettin cozy small as opposed to the giant bowls. I like it. Tho Im sure some day people will look back with affection on some of those humongous monstosities. Wow,..Im really surprised Garners goin with Wheeler instead of Lidge. I guess he's pitched alot, but I figured Lidge would be on the mound for the clinch.

metirish Oct 19 2005 11:17 PM

Great for Wheeler, I hope he nails it down.....

SI Metman Oct 19 2005 11:19 PM

Well they do have to tear down the old stadium to finish the new one. 2 outs to go...

Zvon Oct 19 2005 11:22 PM

Uh Oh......... 2 out single.... lol....It cant happen.

Elster88 Oct 19 2005 11:25 PM

Elster88 remembers the Mets sweeping John Franco and the Astros in April and thinking "Damn, Houston sucks this year." ____________________________ This post had the designation 138) Rickey Henderson

Zvon Oct 19 2005 11:25 PM

So its the Astros vs the White Sox in he World Series. Kool. Someones gonna have to win it. Ill enjoy this series. Guess Ill be rootin for the NLstros but I wouldnt mind if the Sox finally did it.

Rockin' Doc Oct 19 2005 11:26 PM

Congratulations to the Astros for clinching their first pennant. Congratulations Annie. Savor the moment.

Zvon Oct 19 2005 11:28 PM

......dont you think that Bagwell has to be DH? Ill be surprised if he isnt, but it sounded there like its not written in stone.

metirish Oct 19 2005 11:29 PM

Yeah a big congrats to Annie, and to guys like Biggio and Bagwell....

smg58 Oct 19 2005 11:34 PM

Kudos to the Astros for bouncing back. That was no small accomplishment. Lidge pitched five innings in five days, and he actually started to look fatigued in game 4 but got out of it. Garner opted not to pitch him if he didn't need to, and now he'll be more than adequately rested for the WS. The Astros got a big break psychologically from the Mulder wild pitch, I think. Being handed the lead had to ease the pressure a lot.

smg58 Oct 19 2005 11:38 PM

Bagwell's been pinch-hitting, but I don't know if he's been running the bases. If he can do that, I'd think they'd have to use him as the DH.

SwitchHitter Oct 20 2005 12:12 AM

Thanks Doc and 'irish. Yes, smg58, Bags has run the bases when he's hit. His shoulder is the problem, not his legs. He can't play in the field, but he can hit. And he's been clutch since coming back in September.

Frayed Knot Oct 20 2005 12:18 AM

Bagwell's problem is in his shoulder (and has been for years). So running shouldn't be a problem but they might be concerned about how he'd hold up to multiple ABs per game. He did say on the post-game that he'll be lobbying for the DH assignment and it's not like they've got a ton of great other candidates; Palmiero, Vizcaino. Lamb and Burke (if Tavarez starts) are useful players but hardly scary DH types. * cross-posted w/Annie

SwitchHitter Oct 20 2005 03:03 AM

Bagwell's the best choice. In order, you should go Bagwell, Lamb, Palmeiro, Vizcaino. Burke doesn't belong in this discussion because he should be playing LF.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 20 2005 07:02 AM

Congratulations Annie!

SwitchHitter Oct 20 2005 02:56 PM

Oh yeah, and my boy is now the answer to a trivia question. Remember it and stump someone in a few years. The same player hit the last home run and caught the last out in old Busch stadium. Name him.

Frayed Knot Oct 20 2005 03:53 PM While We're Waiting

Please explain your answer/ give some examples.

MFS62 Oct 20 2005 03:56 PM

That's bush. Later

SwitchHitter Oct 20 2005 04:42 PM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Dec 07 2005 09:50 AM

I imagine the restore will restore missing accounts. Other news: Carlos Delgado Is Stil a Marlin Billy Wagner is Still a Free Agent Herb Moford: Alive and Kicking Elster88 Is More or Less on Better Terms with Mark Healey. On edit: E88 and yancy have been knocked back to "Rickey Henderson" and "Bobby Bonilla" status, respectively, and will be playing Hearts in the clubhouse until this whole thing blows over.