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"a lathering baboon of dubious antecedents"

Edgy DC Oct 25 2005 10:39 AM

Talking with Tim McCarver about the hate.

Rotblatt Oct 25 2005 11:01 AM

Good stuff, Edgy! I dislike McCarver mostly for his frequent Jeter ball-washing, but other than that, I don't think he's particularly worse than anyone else. And I can understand the whole "dumb it down for non-baseball fans" thing. My girlfriend appreciates that kind of thing when she's watching. I loathe the interviews and when they cut away from the game to show the announcers, but I think everyone does that now--can't really blame McCarver for that. I think TV announcing is at its best when they've got good color commentators on. I loved listening to Leiter last year--he'd talk a lot about pitch selection and the difference between types of pitches, etc. Generally, though, I'd rather listen to the radio boys. My favorite SoSH tag line: "Derek Jeter's spit cures cancer. - Tim McCarver"

metirish Oct 25 2005 11:07 AM

I have no real problem with McCarver , he does come out with some odd things from inning to inning but he's far better than the other analysts that do games on National TV, especially Joe Morgan, and Steve Lyons offers nothing really....don't get me started on Sutcliffe and Brantley....

Edgy DC Oct 25 2005 11:16 AM

And that's the problem. McCarver's brand of broadcasting may be worn out due to it's ubiquity, but compared with the alternatives...

Willets Point Oct 25 2005 11:26 AM

McCarver talks way too much in a whiney know-it-all tone that grates on my nerves. He also makes bad jokes and particularly when they bomb he has the same annoying habit as David Letterman of referring back to his bad jokes as if repetition would make them funnier. He knows a lot of baseball. He does not know a lot about conveying that knowledge in a concise and entertaining manner appropriate to the narration of a live baseball game.

Frayed Knot Oct 25 2005 11:34 AM

I've always liked McCarver - although this seemingly puts me in an ever shrinking minority and I understand that individual mileage certainly may vary. It's just that announcer-hating has become a cottage industry in recent years and much of it stems from the "fact" that fans believe said announcer (and usually MOST announcers) are insanely prejudiced against their team and stop at no lengths to twist facts and convey that view to the country. That's the part I don't understand and find ridiculously childish.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 25 2005 11:56 AM

When McCarver first started announcing Mets games, he said something that struck me as being sexist (I can't remember what it was), so he and I got off on the wrong foot. After that, I never warmed up to him.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 25 2005 12:07 PM

Count me among those whose admiration for McCarver has waned in recent years: He basically attacked his mission too well and doesn;t have much to add it seems, at least as frequently, as he used to. That said I don't get why fans/other media gotta be so ugly about it: It's not as if chopping McCarver's head off would prevent another one growing back that would generate any fewer haters. That's a dumb article anyway, since the writer doesn't appear to recognize much difference between idiots who hate McCarver for alledged team biases and critics who hate McCarver because they're tired of taking the same class every semester.

sharpie Oct 25 2005 12:09 PM

Plus it's not like there's much better talent calling nationally televised games.

Centerfield Oct 25 2005 01:19 PM

I like Tim McCarver. I liked him as a kid, and I still like him now. The forkball/splitter thing is a good example of how, even at this age, there's always a chance you will learn something new by listening to him. I don't think his humor works as well as it used to, and I don't think Derek Jeter is quite as good as he thinks he is, but if those are your biggest complaints, you have a pretty good announcer. Besides, Steve Lyons, Joe Morgan...these guys can't hold a candle to him. I suspect the reason there is so much hate for McCarver is because he's on TV frequently, after all, John Madden was also on that list. I bet if you polled, he'd be among the more popular announcers too. And with the home team thing, McCarver is not a homer or a shill. So if a fan is accusomted to listening to guys like Sterling, or Skip Carey, to that fan, McCarver will appear to be biased against that team when in fact, McCarver is simply not ridiculously biased in favor of that team.

metirish Oct 25 2005 01:43 PM

From the article.... ]But he also suggested that the National League had more hard-throwing pitchers than the American League, without offering any backup for the claim see when McCarver said that it got me thinking and I was trying to figure out if that could be true anymore(I'm assuming it's historically true), so I'm watching the game and with pad and pen start writing down power starting pitchers in the NL.... Clemens Smoltz Willis Prior Wood Burnett Oswalt Beckett I'm sure there are as many power pitchers in the AL...surely his statement is just not true, not with all the player movement these days..

Frayed Knot Oct 25 2005 02:23 PM

Two things about McCarver: 1) I still learn stuff from listening to him 2) For all the talk about 2nd-guessing announcers, Tim consistantly suggests/debates/rejects the next potential move or strategy almost immediately as it crops up: -- "I wouldn't bunt here" ... "he's too deep in left field" ... "I don't send the runner here because ...", etc. -- and by doing so he gives you an insight into how quickly a manager needs to think about that stuff in advance. Like most fans & writers, I like to think that I can dope out the plusses & minuses of most baseball situations - but we frequently do so in retrospect and have the luxury of critiquing via that viewpoint. I'd be willing to bet that Tim - right, worng or indifferent - beats most of his critics to the punch on the subject a whole lot more often than not. And again, I understand that he isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it seems like he gets blamed for every slight - perceived or real - that goes on in during a telecast and, like Dickshot says, if he disappeared tomorrow it's not like the masses are going suddenly going to embrace his replacement.

TheOldMole Oct 25 2005 03:14 PM

I liked McCarver a lot as a Met announcer, don't think about him much any more.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 25 2005 03:43 PM

TheOldMole wrote: I liked McCarver a lot as a Met announcer, don't think about him much any more. Me too. After a dreary 1982, with Lorn Brown and Ralph Kiner snoozing through the season, getting Tim and Steve Zabriskie in the booth was a blast of fresh air. They brought Ralph back to life, and made it fun to listen to them. I was a huge McCarver fan back in those days. Today, though, I don't really have an opinion. I don't find it implausible that he's worn thin, but at some point I stopped paying close attention to what baseball announcers are saying. I don't turn off the sound or anything. I hear their words, but I don't spend any time pondering them. My focus is more on what's happening on the field. I usually don't even know who's doing the game. Radio, of course, is a different story. I have to pay more attention to the broadcasters for radio.

Elster88 Oct 25 2005 04:02 PM

You pretty much described how I feel to a T. What happened to Zabriske anyway? Did he disappear when they vaporized SportsChannel?

sharpie Oct 25 2005 04:07 PM

He wrote a book in 1998. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1890905089/002-8883697-3858424?v=glance&n=283155

Edgy DC Oct 25 2005 04:27 PM

It says pretty much everything that needs to be said that McCarver burned bridges with both the Yankees and the Mets by not toeing the company line. Now Rockhead --- that was a good hate website.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 25 2005 04:38 PM

I liked the Rocker promo site even better. That photo of him with the kitten was priceless.

seawolf17 Oct 25 2005 04:57 PM

Got your back, Scarlet. Count me in the lukewarm camp on Timmy. Loved him as a Met announcer, still love his insight, loved his "Brain Surgeons" book, tired of his smarminess.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 25 2005 05:13 PM

Thanks seawolf - that always makes me laugh <g>

MFS62 Oct 25 2005 06:18 PM

I liked Tim, because every once in a while, he would come out with something that challenged "the book". The one that immediately comes to mind is the "protect the line" theory in late innings. McCarver opined that if the fielders play in, they cut down the angles for balls hit both to their right and left. The Physics made sense to me because I did not have to put my teeth at risk, unlike those fielders who he suggested move closer to the batter. But now that I have heard all his "non-traditional" theories, I can take him or leave him. But, as someone mentioned above, he is still educational for the casual baseball viewer. Later

metsmarathon Oct 25 2005 08:01 PM

if tim mccarver were to go suddenly away forever and forever, there would be then one less announcer more interested in educating and analyzing for those fans who might need educating and analyzing for, and one more announcer more interested in getting his latest toy catch phrase on sportscenter as often and painfully as possible.

Edgy DC Oct 25 2005 09:11 PM

Or maybe we could get another retrograde educator like Joe Morgan. That would be... better? worse?

Rockin' Doc Oct 25 2005 11:20 PM

I like McCarver pretty well. He is more articulate and knowledgeable than most of his contemporaries. He can be annoying at times, but he is still better than most of the others I've heard in recent years.

MFS62 Oct 26 2005 02:11 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Or maybe we could get another retrograde educator like Joe Morgan. That would be... better? worse? Morgan has already tried "education". He has authored a book in the ".... for dummies" series entitled (naturally) "Baseball for Dummies". Your opinion of Morgan will probably determine whether you feel this title is autobiographical. Later