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Harold Pinter

sharpie Oct 13 2005 10:04 AM

Wins the Nobel Prize for Literature. I'm happy when someone who's work I know and like wins. He's become far less prolific play-wise in recent years but his '60's and '70's work still holds up remarkably well.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 13 2005 12:50 PM

I think that Betrayal is the only Pinter work I've seen (both the movie and on stage), and that's brilliant.

rpackrat Oct 13 2005 03:54 PM

One of the two or three most important english-language playwrights of the past half century. Good choice.

TheOldMole Oct 13 2005 08:34 PM

I agree. Who would you say are the others? Albee, John Osborne and August WIlson come to mind.

Edgy DC Oct 13 2005 10:30 PM

"Important" is a tricky standard. Brian Friel, Tom Stoppard, and Sam Shepard come additionally to my little mind. I think -pard is a good thing for a playwright to have at the end of his or her name. Half century is a tricky standard also. Many guys flourished at mid-century. Clifford Odets, William Soroyan, Arthur Miller, and William Inge. Freaking American realism can drive me batty, though. Batty. Lorraine Hansberry might have qualified, but died with few plays produced.

TheOldMole Oct 13 2005 10:50 PM

I forgot Stoppard. I'd put him at the top of the list.

Vic Sage Oct 14 2005 11:45 AM Edited 3 time(s), most recently on Oct 14 2005 12:26 PM

16 of the most important* English-language playwrights produced on Broadway from 1955-2005**: Arthur Miller Tenessee Williams William Inge John Osborne Samuel Beckett [oops!] Harold Pinter Brian Friel Edward Albee Athol Fugard David Rabe Neil Simon Tom Stoppard Sam Shepard August Wilson David Mamet Tony Kushner *"important" - meets some, most or all of the following criteria: successful, prolific, award-winning, much produced on Broadway, of great social significance, major influence on art of playwriting, or whose works have otherwise stood the test of time. **[on edit] limited to writers who were actively writing from 1955-2005 and having their new works produced during that period

sharpie Oct 14 2005 11:55 AM

Vic's list is all male. Might'nt we slip at least one female in? Caryl Churchill, maybe? John Guare might make the list as well.

Willets Point Oct 14 2005 12:08 PM

Vic Sage wrote: 15 of the most important* English-language playwrights produced on Broadway from 1955-2005: Surely Shakespeare meets those standards. Perhaps you should insert the word "living" or "contemporary" in there.

Vic Sage Oct 14 2005 12:10 PM

The list is male because the theater is dominated by males. But if you'd like to identify some talented women: Lillian Hellman Wendy Wasserstein Anna Deveare Smith Marsha Norman Beth Henley Tina Howe Lorraine Hansberry Caryl Churchill But none of these are in the class of the group listed above. And as for John Guare, you could certainly add him to the list, but you could also add... Alan Ayckborn David Hare Michael Frayn Richard Nelson Terrrence McNally Alfred Uhry Horton Foote Martin McDonough Donald Marguilies John Patrick Shanley ...but you've got to stop somewhere.

Vic Sage Oct 14 2005 12:12 PM

Willets Point wrote: ="Vic Sage"]15 of the most important* English-language playwrights produced on Broadway from 1955-2005: Surely Shakespeare meets those standards. Perhaps you should insert the word "living" or "contemporary" in there. as you well know, I am talking about writers who were actively writing from 1955-2005 and having their new works produced during that period

Willets Point Oct 14 2005 12:23 PM

Vic Sage wrote: ="Willets Point"] Vic Sage wrote: 15 of the most important* English-language playwrights produced on Broadway from 1955-2005: Surely Shakespeare meets those standards. Perhaps you should insert the word "living" or "contemporary" in there. as you well know, I am talking about writers who were actively writing from 1955-2005 and having their new works produced during that period No I did not immediately know, that is why I suggested you edit for clarity.

TheOldMole Oct 14 2005 01:03 PM

I don't see how you can count Beckett as an English language playwright. Wendy Wasserstein is wretched, Marsha Norman is wonderful.

sharpie Oct 14 2005 01:18 PM

Even though Beckett wrote in French, he translated it back into English so I think he counts. He also wins most influential French language playwright. He's also the only other Nobel laureate on Vic's list.

Edgy DC Oct 14 2005 01:22 PM

I thought Mole wasn't disqualifying him for his French. I thought Mole was suggesting that his alleged English --- though composed of English words --- didn't always amounting to English sentences.

rpackrat Oct 14 2005 03:26 PM

My list would include Pimter, Stoppard, Miller, Albee, Beckett, maybe August Wilson, maybe Mamet and Shepard. I'm not a huge Williams fan -- tends a bit too much to melodrama for my taste. I like Guare, but IMO he's really only written two major plays: House of Blue Leaves and Six Degrees of Separation. Same thing with Osborne -- big impact at the time, but not a large body of significant work.

Vic Sage Oct 14 2005 03:30 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 14 2005 03:35 PM

Beckett counts because he wrote his own English-language translations. I didn't include Anhouilh and Ionesco because i don't think they did. Edgy, you wish you could write a sentence as good as the worst sentence Beckett ever wrote. I totally agree about Wasserstein. I don't understand how anybody can sit through her self-absorbed, over-educated, upper westside elitist crap in which every character speaks in the same tone, about stuff nobody should give a ratzass about. But she keeps getting produced.

ScarletKnight41 Oct 14 2005 03:33 PM

Um, I like Wasserstein. I loved The Heidi Chronicles. She definitely speaks directly to women. I'm sure that's why our mileage varies in this case.

sharpie Oct 14 2005 03:43 PM

I remember liking Guare's Landscape of the Body a whole lot. I can live with Packrat's short list. Take the maybe away from Shepard, though. From Vic's female list: I'm in the anti-Wasserstein camp as well. Lillian Hellman's best work was before 1955. Anna Deveare Smith writes one-woman shows for herself to perform so she doesn't count in my book. Where's Spalding Grey if she makes it? Marsha Norman/Beth Henley/Tina Howe/Lorraine Hansberry have all written what are generally considered to be one really good play. I can't think of a second by any of them (unless you count Norman's Secret Garden). Which is why I put forth Caryl Churchill but she doesn't get to be on the shortlist.

Vic Sage Oct 14 2005 03:56 PM

i agree with all your points about the female list. Thats the problem. Go ahead and figure out a list of female playwrights that fill the criteria. go ahead... i dare you.

Vic Sage Oct 14 2005 04:01 PM

And as for a "short list", i can't reasonably get below these 10: Edward Albee Samuel Beckett Athol Fugard David Mamet Arthur Miller Harold Pinter Sam Shepard Tom Stoppard Tenessee Williams August Wilson .

sharpie Oct 14 2005 04:16 PM

I can live with that shortlist. One day Tony Kushner might force his way onto it but he's not there yet. Much of Williams' and Miller's best work was before 1955 but not all of it in either case. Props for Fugard being there, he'd kind of slipped my mind but his works were great and the whole conscience of a country thing elevates him over Osborne, Friel and other dropped-off-the-listers.