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Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

metsguyinmichigan Nov 08 2010 12:55 PM

Aw hell. If they put Steinbrennner in, I'm going to scream. But this group has not done well electing anyone recently. NEW YORK -- Yankees owner George Steinbrenner will be on the Hall of Fame veterans committee ballot next month with former New York manager Billy Martin. Former union head Marvin Miller also will be on the ballot with players Vida Blue, Dave Concepcion, Steve Garvey, Ron Guidry, Tommy John, Al Oliver, Ted Simmons and Rusty Staub. The Hall said Monday that retired Toronto and Philadelphia general manager Pat Gillick also is on the 12-man ballot. To be elected, a candidate must appear on at least 75 percent of the 16 ballots. Results will be announced Dec. 6 at the winter meetings in Lake Buena Vista, Fla.

seawolf17 Nov 08 2010 12:58 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

(m) none of the above edit: Scratch that. I guess I'd put Miller in.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 08 2010 01:03 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

seawolf17 wrote: (m) none of the above edit: Scratch that. I guess I'd put Miller in. what he said

metsguyinmichigan Nov 08 2010 01:04 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

That Miller is not in is a horrific oversight. Gillick is interesting. I wonder how many GMs are in there.

TheOldMole Nov 08 2010 01:05 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

I want to see Marvin Miller in the Hall while he's still alive.

metirish Nov 08 2010 01:07 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: (m) none of the above edit: Scratch that. I guess I'd put Miller in. what he said I know Seaver is all for Miller, and Ralph too, but there still is strong resistance to him, from who though?

HahnSolo Nov 08 2010 01:08 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

Hate to say it, but you could make a decent argument for Martin as a manager (I assume he's on the ballot as a manager and not player).

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 08 2010 01:09 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

As for Rusty, it's an honor just to be nominated yyybbb

HahnSolo Nov 08 2010 01:10 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

TheOldMole wrote: I want to see Marvin Miller in the Hall while he's still alive. I'd pay good money to hear his acceptance speech.

Valadius Nov 08 2010 01:16 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

Concepcion stands a better shot of making it through the Veterans' Committee. My votes are for Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons. The biggest oversight in the Hall, I think, and one that one voter should be eternally guilty about, is that Buck O'Neil didn't make it in when they had that giant class of Negro Leaguers a few years ago.

Edgy DC Nov 08 2010 01:31 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

metirish wrote: (m) none of the above edit: Scratch that. I guess I'd put Miller in. what he said I know Seaver is all for Miller, and Ralph too, but there still is strong resistance to him, from who though? It's not that there's strong resistence, it's that there's been several different inducting bodies and processes, and lack of clarity about the roles of the different committees, so he's not been a priority. He's really in a category of one. It's like, a committee convenes and prepares to compare Richie Allen to Tony Olivo to Dick Williams and is suddenly asked, "Should Ted Giannoulas be inducted?" A rational response is, "I guess so, maybe, but who do you compare him to? Are we supposed to be judges of good mascotting? Does the Hall cover that? Should we be the ones to expand the Hall's mandate? I'm new here. Am I going to do something controversial here without even realizing it? Shouldn't somebody else be calling that shot?" Seaver would do well by not complaining after the fact but lobbying beforehand.

metsguyinmichigan Nov 08 2010 01:37 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

Just noticed that Ron Santo seems to be getting screwed. Again.

seawolf17 Nov 08 2010 01:38 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Just noticed that Ron Santo seems to be getting screwed. Again. He should try dying. Worked for Billy and the Boss.

metirish Nov 08 2010 01:44 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

Edgy DC wrote: (m) none of the above edit: Scratch that. I guess I'd put Miller in. what he said I know Seaver is all for Miller, and Ralph too, but there still is strong resistance to him, from who though? It's not that there's strong resistence, it's that there's been several different inducting bodies and processes, and lack of clarity about the roles of the different committees, so he's not been a priority. He's really in a category of one. It's like, a committee convenes and prepares to compare Richie Allen to Tony Olivo to Dick Williams and is suddenly asked, "Should Ted Giannoulas be inducted?" A rational response is, "I guess so, maybe, but who do you compare him to? Are we supposed to be judges of good mascotting? Does the Hall cover that? Should we be the ones to expand the Hall's mandate? I'm new here. Am I going to do something controversial here without even realizing it? Shouldn't somebody else be calling that shot?" Seaver would do well by not complaining after the fact but lobbying beforehand. That's Tom fucking Seaver you are talking to mate, only the greatest Met EVER , says Mark Hermann at Newsday http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ ... -1.2438999

Valadius Nov 08 2010 02:00 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

It seems that they've changed the Veterans' Committee yet again. This crop of candidates is drawn from the "Expansion Era", defined as 1973-present. If you're looking to lobby the voters, they are: Hall of Fame members Johnny Bench, Whitey Herzog, Eddie Murray, Jim Palmer, Tony Perez, Frank Robinson, Ryne Sandberg and Ozzie Smith; major league executives Bill Giles (Phillies), David Glass (Royals), Andy MacPhail (Orioles) and Jerry Reinsdorf (White Sox); and veteran media members Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun), Tim Kurkjian (ESPN), Ross Newhan (retired, Los Angeles Times) and Tom Verducci (Sports Illustrated) Seeing Verducci on there is not a good sign in terms of keeping the blowhard out of Cooperstown.

HahnSolo Nov 08 2010 02:08 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

Concepcion's candidacy would seem to be strengthened by the presence of former teammates Bench and Perez, and fellow good-glove SS Smith.

Ashie62 Nov 08 2010 02:15 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

I'd like to see Al Oliver get in. [url]http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/oliveal01.shtml

seawolf17 Nov 08 2010 02:18 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

[keithhernandez] /shakes head [/keithhernandez]

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2010 02:20 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

To be elected, a candidate must appear on at least 75 percent of the 16 ballots. Results will be announced Dec. 6 at the winter meetings in Lake Buena Vista, Fla. So years after abandoning the small vets committees that were subject to so much questioning on account of the possibility of being controlled by small cliques within and/or intentionally 'stacked' in favor of a candidate they've now gone back to the same idea?

Edgy DC Nov 08 2010 02:25 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

Certainly have. The large group couldn't produce consensus and were returning blank ballots regularly --- which is perfectly defensible, but not what the HoF was looking for.

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2010 02:37 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

Exactly. They're manipulating the process in order to reach the desired conclusion - even though the conclusions that process was producing were bad enough to make them alter the process.

metsguyinmichigan Nov 08 2010 03:30 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

inducting people = selling more t-shirts, programs, hotel rooms for inducting festivities, etc. not inducting people = less money in Hall coffers, which they need to authenticate all the Barry Halper stuff....

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 08 2010 04:28 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

seawolf17 wrote: [keithhernandez] /shakes head [/keithhernandez] Really. I mean, REALLY. Garvey and Al Oliver and (yes) Rusty, but no Keith? REALLY?

Ashie62 Nov 08 2010 06:10 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: seawolf17 wrote: [keithhernandez] /shakes head [/keithhernandez] Really. I mean, REALLY. Garvey and Al Oliver and (yes) Rusty, but no Keith? REALLY? Not before Mattingly lol?

MFS62 Nov 09 2010 07:32 AM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

The late night guy on ESPN radio in NY, Bill Daughtry, is a virulent Yankee fan (and also roots for all the NY teams I don't root for, but that's another issue). Thank goodness his predictions and pronouncements seem to be running over 90% wrong. (The one I remember most was saying that Michael Vick would sign with a minor league football team, not an NFL team). He says he would vote for (in addition to Boss George, natch) Steve Garvey! I hope he's wrong again. My only exec vote in this crew goes to Marvin Miller. My player votes would go to Al Oliver and Ted Simmons if they were only a tad better. Later

Vic Sage Nov 09 2010 07:56 AM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

Miller and Simmons. period.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 09 2010 08:20 AM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

I remember reading very recently, that Marvin Miller informed the Hall of Fame committee that he no longer wants to be considered for induction.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 09 2010 08:37 AM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I remember reading very recently, that Marvin Miller informed the Hall of Fame committee that he no longer wants to be considered for induction. Perhaps the ultimate insult came in 2007, when Miller was once again denied a plaque in Cooperstown and his longtime adversary, Commissioner Bowie Kuhn, whom Miller defeated in every labor confrontation, was voted in. Miller responded with a letter to the Baseball Writers Association of America asking that his name be removed from consideration and stating in clear terms that he would refuse even if he should be voted in. However, Miller's request was not honored, and last year his name was on the ballot and he lost for the fourth time -- by two votes. http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninsca ... et_mar.php

SteveJRogers Nov 09 2010 04:38 PM Re: Vet's ballot for Hall of Fame. Rusty, good! But evil lurks

So did former Giant Harry Carson, but he did put his pride aside and accepted when the Pro Football Hall finally put him in. Leo Durocher also did the same thing, though his family went against his wishes and accepted it posthumously.