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Redeveloping Willets Point

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 16 2010 09:19 PM

So this started. Score one for Mets fans looking for a home neighborhood... and for pretty egregious misuse of eminent domain. I'm of two minds about the subject (as I'd imagine a good portion of you are). What are your specific thoughts? Hopes? Dreams?

Ceetar Nov 16 2010 09:24 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: So this started. Score one for Mets fans looking for a home neighborhood... and for pretty egregious misuse of eminent domain. I'm of two minds about the subject (as I'd imagine a good portion of you are). What are your specific thoughts? Hopes? Dreams? I'm all for it, and I think this is exactly what eminent domain is for. It's not like these are nice clean businesses. They're run down chop shops in a not so safe area with dogs running around and pot holes big enough to lose Prince Fielder in. (Although I do admit it's a nice shortcut to the GCP if you're over there w/o having to deal with all the other cars) McFadden's is a nice start, but it'd be nice to have a real area to want to stick around. And imagine what the Mets could do on off days, if the area was actually attractive to go to?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 16 2010 09:33 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Wifey works for EDC, though not on this project. Like a lot of these situations, there will be some posturing until the very end, much of it for the benefit of news media and pre$$ure for more, forcing a showdown on eminent domain, etc etc. Sounds as though that the legit biznesses that can make it elsewhere are being offered good deals to go do that in College Point, and several have already accepted. The triangle is a dump after all. My fear is that all this will ultimately result in some heinous, mall-like thing, but given the great demand for housing & biz in Flushing, and the need to improve areas on both sides of CitiField, it's ultimately got to happen.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 16 2010 09:39 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

I hope they build a McDonald's. We could use a couple more banks, too. And two cell phone stores.

Ashie62 Nov 16 2010 11:00 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

I have a property in the area for sale...The buyer will (and me) have an issue with contaminated soil.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 16 2010 11:04 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Ceetar wrote: I'm all for it, and I think this is exactly what eminent domain is for. I'm no lawyer. And this may be the most prominent use of eminent domain these days, but it sure as hell isn't what the concept actually means (think "extreme necessity" and/or "public utility"). If these chop shops are conducting illegal activities, nail them with hard proof, then auction off the property afterward. When you start saying things like "clean businesses" without actual proof of "dirt," and advocate action based on this rationalization, it's not unlike jury conviction of a likely-seeming criminal without actual evidence. ("I mean, come on... just look at him.") McFadden's is a nice start, but it'd be nice to have a real area to want to stick around. And imagine what the Mets could do on off days, if the area was actually attractive to go to? Excepting sweet group-ticket/meal deals, I see little to recommend the joint, frankly. It's noisy, uncomfortable, and about as fan- and fam-unfriendly as the inside isn't. I'm hoping for some Mom and Pop Paysonville action... or at least something that reflects the actual diversity of the surrounding-- or, rather, nearby-- neighborhoods. I'd like to be able to buy actual elote with my "Phuck the Phillies" t-shirts, IOW.

The Second Spitter Nov 17 2010 02:52 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

It's a shame they didn't covert Shea into apartments.

Valadius Nov 17 2010 05:04 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Good. They've needed to put a sewer line in there for what, 100 years?

seawolf17 Nov 17 2010 05:18 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

I don't know. I went to a game with him last year, and he already seemed like a fully formed adult. I don't know that redevelopment is the answer.

Fman99 Nov 17 2010 05:49 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

seawolf17 wrote: I don't know. I went to a game with him last year, and he already seemed like a fully formed adult. I don't know that redevelopment is the answer. Nicely done.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 17 2010 06:17 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

seawolf17 wrote: I don't know. I went to a game with him last year, and he already seemed like a fully formed adult. I don't know that redevelopment is the answer. I c wut u did there.

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 06:47 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Excepting sweet group-ticket/meal deals, I see little to recommend the joint, frankly. It's noisy, uncomfortable, and about as fan- and fam-unfriendly as the inside isn't. I'm hoping for some Mom and Pop Paysonville action... or at least something that reflects the actual diversity of the surrounding-- or, rather, nearby-- neighborhoods. I'd like to be able to buy actual elote with my "Phuck the Phillies" t-shirts, IOW. McFadden's isn't great, but i was comparing it to not having anything. It's a typical sports bar attached to a park. probably exactly the same as Phillies. But it's not a bad meeting point, as compared to reading every brick in the fanwalk (which I assume will get boring after about 2014 or so once I read them all. I did notice they replaced the Seaver brick though) Like if I'm meeting someone at 6 and I have his ticket, and i'm there at 5:30. I'd hope the new area is nice. I think the probability of elote corn is about as likely as a vendor or restaurant that serves it choosing to lease space there. Whatever it is, it's not going to be a Mets run thing. Now, if you have the capital, and want to invest, I'd be glad to pitch in and we can open up a Crane Pool Forum Grill..

Frayed Knot Nov 17 2010 06:52 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Yeah, the displacing of private businesses for the purpose of using that land for different private businesses is specifically NOT what eminent domain was designed to do - even if a recent (and egregious IMO) Supreme Court ruling says that it's allowable. NYC shouldn't neglect to pave roads and install sewers and then act as if it's the fault of the locals because the place is an eyesore on account of there being no sewers and big potholes. Plus the charge that they're all illegal chop shops and the like kind of falls to the ground when you consider that the city was openly doing business with some of them for construction and iron work while building CitiField. I don't know. I went to a game with him last year, and he already seemed like a fully formed adult. I don't know that redevelopment is the answer. This was my first reaction too. What's he going to be redeveloped as ... a conservative republican? Oooh I don't think he'd like that one bit.

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 07:26 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Frayed Knot wrote: Yeah, the displacing of private businesses for the purpose of using that land for different private businesses is specifically NOT what eminent domain was designed to do - even if a recent (and egregious IMO) Supreme Court ruling says that it's allowable. NYC shouldn't neglect to pave roads and install sewers and then act as if it's the fault of the locals because the place is an eyesore on account of there being no sewers and big potholes. Plus the charge that they're all illegal chop shops and the like kind of falls to the ground when you consider that the city was openly doing business with some of them for construction and iron work while building CitiField. . Isn't the idea of 'affordable' housing and a school enough 'public good' or whatever? I understand that this is pushing it, but just because it's partially the city's fault that the area is so decrepit shouldn't mean they shouldn't look to make better use of it either. And they've given tons of warning. I know i'm incredibly biased because I'd like that area to be fun and nice for personal use, but it seems like people leaving the area have been happy with the deals they're getting, and part of the reason the ones that are unhappy are unhappy, is because they won't be able to exploit underhanded deals between each other as much. Besides, I feel like the area basically has to close whenever it rains or snows. Those potholes fill up to be basically lakes. I wouldn't drive there.

Edgy DC Nov 17 2010 07:38 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Isn't the idea of 'affordable' housing and a school enough 'public good' or whatever? Would you feel this way if were the property of your viable (despite not receiving city services) business being seized? I'm not sure how the existence of the businesses in the iron triangle were depressing the availablity of affordable housing and schools. Besides, I feel like the area basically has to close whenever it rains or snows. Those potholes fill up to be basically lakes. I wouldn't drive there. Which is a state of affairst that's certainly on the city. I'm sure they'll achieve something like a just settlement, because the city won't want to look like the bad guy and/or spend years in court. They'll get a generous offer, but with the hammer of eminent domain hanging over them, it'll be an offer they can't refuse.

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 07:47 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

I don't know how I'd feel, as I don't actually own a business. It's hard to extrapolate. But I think i'd see the opportunity to move on from an area like that, whoever's fault it is, if the deal is really a good one as some have made it out to be. I'm conflicted on it, but ultimately I think the area, and the businesses, will all be better off. Moving to a 'real' street with paved roads and no floods and what not seems to be a good business decision. A lot of what made that area successful was word of mouth and the reputation it had as the place to go for whatever. They won't be able to cut corners as easily and do whatever they do there. Probably can't leave cars filled with garbage and car parts sitting on the sidewalk in College Point or whereever they relocate to, but thety wouldn't be able to do that if the city paved the area and cleaned it up all nice either.

Edgy DC Nov 17 2010 07:54 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

I don't think it's fair to characterize all the businesses as operating on the shady side. If the city failed to enforce laws and regulations as well as provide the services that their tax dollars entitled them to, who is to be surprised that folks would slide toward Wild West ethics? There will certailny be opportunities for these business owners. But the greater point remains that using eminent domain (or the threat of eminent domain) for commercial development is abusive and a scary precedent.

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 08:07 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Edgy DC wrote: I don't think it's fair to characterize all the businesses as operating on the shady side. If the city failed to enforce laws and regulations as well as provide the services that their tax dollars entitled them to, who is to be surprised that folks would slide toward Wild West ethics? There will certailny be opportunities for these business owners. But the greater point remains that using eminent domain (or the threat of eminent domain) for commercial development is abusive and a scary precedent. If the manager fails to enforce discipline or rules, who's surprised when the players look a little sloppy or unprepared? (this to a common acquisition that the Mets are soft and don't care or whatever) I don't know that they all are, but that's the impression I get from people talking about them. I wonder if those businesses would be unhappy if the city decided totake an interest in the area, non-eminent domain like? I'm only looking at it as it applies to Willets Point, where I think it's a good idea. Other situations, not so much. But this certainly isn't the government bulldozing homes to build a freeway. or an intergallatic bypass.

Edgy DC Nov 17 2010 08:17 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Yeah, but once we let that genie is out of the bottle, we don't really get a say in how he behaves next.

G-Fafif Nov 17 2010 08:24 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

The Second Spitter wrote: It's a shame they didn't covert Shea into apartments. At last an endorsement for this proposal! To be fair, apartments was my alternative proposal. My big idea was keep Shea in addition to Citi for double home field advantage. I stand by my insane romanticism.

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 08:26 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, but once we let that genie is out of the bottle, we don't really get a say in how he behaves next. I think the genie's already out of the bottle. We don't get a say here do we?

soupcan Nov 17 2010 08:44 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

But...it looks so pretty...

G-Fafif Nov 17 2010 08:51 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Not pictured: Proud Flushingites sporting home team gear; local merchants' windows featuring signs saluting the five-time world champion New York Mets.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 17 2010 08:52 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Ceetar wrote: Besides, I feel like the area basically has to close whenever it rains or snows. Those potholes fill up to be basically lakes. I wouldn't drive there. Would you like it if the government confiscated your land from you because there was a big pothole in front of it?

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 09:14 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: Besides, I feel like the area basically has to close whenever it rains or snows. Those potholes fill up to be basically lakes. I wouldn't drive there. Would you like it if the government confiscated your land from you because there was a big pothole in front of it? If they made it worth my while to go elsewhere? possibly.. In this economy, a project like this has to generate a decent amount of jobs, and the businesses that will take their place will generate a lot more jobs too. That has to have value as well.

Edgy DC Nov 17 2010 09:30 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

There's no if about it, though; that's the point. When eminent domain is invoked, it's compulsory. Man, the fifth amendment isn't just for gangsters. Fourth too, baby.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 17 2010 09:41 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 17 2010 09:49 AM

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Besides, I feel like the area basically has to close whenever it rains or snows. Those potholes fill up to be basically lakes. I wouldn't drive there. Would you like it if the government confiscated your land from you because there was a big pothole in front of it? If they made it worth my while to go elsewhere? possibly.. That's just it; given ED hanging over the proceedings, you almost definitely wouldn't be getting as much as you would on the open market. Ceetar wrote: In this economy, a project like this has to generate a decent amount of jobs, and the businesses that will take their place will generate a lot more jobs too. That has to have value as well. So would building and running a giant abattoir for "processing" the homeless. (And hey! Two civic blights solved!) [I'm not saying that paving over "Hubcaps, Hubcaps, Hubcaps" and putting up a few Johnny Rockets is the moral equivalent of that... but it isn't a slam dunk that these ends justify the worm-can-opening inherent in their means.]

batmagadanleadoff Nov 17 2010 09:46 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Besides, I feel like the area basically has to close whenever it rains or snows. Those potholes fill up to be basically lakes. I wouldn't drive there. Would you like it if the government confiscated your land from you because there was a big pothole in front of it? If they made it worth my while to go elsewhere? possibly.. In this economy, a project like this has to generate a decent amount of jobs, and the businesses that will take their place will generate a lot more jobs too. That has to have value as well. Now there's an idea -- justifying eminent domain because the ensuing demolition tear-down and build-up will create more construction jobs. How come I never thought of that?

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 09:59 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Besides, I feel like the area basically has to close whenever it rains or snows. Those potholes fill up to be basically lakes. I wouldn't drive there. Would you like it if the government confiscated your land from you because there was a big pothole in front of it? If they made it worth my while to go elsewhere? possibly.. That's just it; given ED hanging over the proceedings, you almost definitely wouldn't be getting as much as you would on the open market. Ceetar wrote: In this economy, a project like this has to generate a decent amount of jobs, and the businesses that will take their place will generate a lot more jobs too. That has to have value as well. So would building and running a giant abattoir for "processing" the homeless. (And hey! Two civic blights solved!) [I'm not saying that paving over "Hubcaps, Hubcaps, Hubcaps" and putting up a few Johnny Rockets is the moral equivalent of that... but it isn't a slam dunk that these ends justify the worm-can-opening inherent in their means.] can of worms? I mean.. I understand that there are questions about if it should or shouldn't be possible, but isn't the law already in existence? Hasn't this been determined to be legitimate? I mean, we can get into debates about government and corruption and all that, but this isn't some loophole is it? Or is it an interpretation thing on what falls under eminent domain?

Edgy DC Nov 17 2010 10:11 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

No, the exercise of eminent domain for commerical development is a very recent and highly controversial precedent put through by a divided court, granting new rights to governments, and people should be very wary and resistant when they see their government exercising it.

Vic Sage Nov 17 2010 10:21 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

there is a name for a government that uses its power on behalf of private commercial interests at the expense of individuals. It used to be called fascism. Now, it includes our own bailout nation. National socialism for the rich, laissez-faire for everybody else.

Willets Point Nov 17 2010 10:41 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

This Willets Point is against the use of eminent domain for commercial purposes. If someone wants to develop that area -- and I'm sure it is a good idea on paper to do so -- then buy the property fair & square. By the way, those drawings make the future of Flushing look awfully Caucasian.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 17 2010 11:45 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Willets Point wrote: This Willets Point is against the use of eminent domain for commercial purposes. If someone wants to develop that area -- and I'm sure it is a good idea on paper to do so -- then buy the property fair & square. By the way, those drawings make the future of Flushing look awfully Caucasian. Maybe. But I bet they're speaking Chinese.

metsmarathon Nov 17 2010 12:01 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Willets Point wrote: This Willets Point is against the use of eminent domain for commercial purposes. If someone wants to develop that area -- and I'm sure it is a good idea on paper to do so -- then buy the property fair & square. By the way, those drawings make the future of Flushing look awfully Caucasian. there's hot chicks with running strollers and cute little babies. bring on the future! bring! it! on! also the little boy walking with his parents in that same frame appears to have a hispanic father. though maybe he's just got a good tan. and the picture above it has a young black teenager with a white shirt and stylishly askew cap looking across the street towards young plaid-shirted opie. i think they're friends.

Edgy DC Nov 17 2010 12:04 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Damn yuppies have cornered the market and I can never get seats for Aurora Borealis Night anymore.

Number 6 Nov 17 2010 12:04 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: That's just it; given ED hanging over the proceedings, you almost definitely wouldn't be getting as much as you would on the open market. I predict interest will be titillated, but resistance will ultimately be flaccid. (Did I see what you did there? I'm hoping yes.)

Willets Point Nov 17 2010 12:07 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

seawolf17 wrote: I don't know. I went to a game with him last year, and he already seemed like a fully formed adult. I don't know that redevelopment is the answer. I could stand to lose a few pounds. And I need a haircut.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 17 2010 12:23 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Number 6 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: That's just it; given ED hanging over the proceedings, you almost definitely wouldn't be getting as much as you would on the open market. I predict interest will be titillated, but resistance will ultimately be flaccid. (Did I see what you did there? I'm hoping yes.) Your wishes for me are really confusing.

HahnSolo Nov 17 2010 12:47 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 17 2010 01:24 PM

It ain't my forum, but isn't this veering well into non-baseball forum territory? ON Edit: I'd like to apologize for sounding douchey.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 17 2010 01:01 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

In the future, there will be flying cars.

metsguyinmichigan Nov 17 2010 01:10 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

I think it's a neat idea. But I think it's difficult to create Wrigleyville. It kind of has to happen on its own. Housing would keep people in the area year-round instead of just one game days. There has been minimal development of shops and things around Comerica in Detroit -- though it is Detroit. Houston, Cleveland and Pittsburgh seemed to have some nice things going on. Denver was still too new when I was there. Cincy has some things, but you have to walk a bit.

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 01:47 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I think it's a neat idea. But I think it's difficult to create Wrigleyville. It kind of has to happen on its own. Housing would keep people in the area year-round instead of just one game days. There has been minimal development of shops and things around Comerica in Detroit -- though it is Detroit. Houston, Cleveland and Pittsburgh seemed to have some nice things going on. Denver was still too new when I was there. Cincy has some things, but you have to walk a bit. You think we'd fail to create our own Wrigleyville? Pittsburgh, I was there in '06. at the time, was some decent stuff outside. No idea what it looks like when the place isn't completely packed. (you know, a normal game) San Diego started with basically nothing around it. now they've got some skyscraping office buildings, and a lot going on nearby in the gaslight area, although it's not _right_ next to the park. Denver doesn't have much. There's a really awesome brewery right there, but otherwise not really much. Might as well keep going. St. Louis has some stuff going on, but it's downtown and except for a couple of restaurants, a lot of it closes down with the 9-5 workday. Oakland's horrible. get out of there ASAP! (they're moving anyway) SF was okay, but not really much down there either. Nothing by the Dodgers. Anaheim overlooks the freeway and it's pretty much residential around there. Miami is just off the highway. nothing. They're moving as well. Balitmore is in the harbor area. I found the surrounding area pretty nice, but it's not ballpark related. It just happens to be where everythings going on in general. This oculd be because there is nothing going on with the Orioles though. Philly's much like Citi. In a big parking lot. also with the other teams, and it's a disaster to get out of if they overlap. I remember walking to Chickie and pete's between double headers, but it wasn't acxross the street or anything.

soupcan Nov 17 2010 01:52 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Ceetar wrote: San Diego started with basically nothing around it. now they've got some skyscraping office buildings, and a lot going on nearby in the gaslight area, although it's not _right_ next to the park. San Diego's got it knocked. Hotels, restaurants, clubs, condos - all right around the park. Great park in what's become a great area in a great city. It's what the Mets hope will happen at Citi,

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 01:54 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

soupcan wrote: Ceetar wrote: San Diego started with basically nothing around it. now they've got some skyscraping office buildings, and a lot going on nearby in the gaslight area, although it's not _right_ next to the park. San Diego's got it knocked. Hotels, restaurants, clubs, condos - all right around the park. Great park in what's become a great area in a great city. It's what the Mets hope will happen at Citi, Yeah, it's definitely nice. I've been there twice and actually haven't seen a game unfortunately. just walekd around the park and tour. the clubs and restaurants and what not are a block a way right, or two?

soupcan Nov 17 2010 02:21 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Yeah, they're right around there. The Gaslamp district was always nice but in the last 5-6 years or so the area has just boomed and it's hopping most of the time now.

HahnSolo Nov 17 2010 02:23 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Convention Center is right there too. I'm supposed to be heading out there in January. Looking forward to it.

metirish Nov 17 2010 02:23 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

soupcan wrote: Yeah, they're right around there. The Gaslamp district was always nice but in the last 5-6 years or so the area has just boomed and it's hopping most of the time now. All done by Sandy Alderson.....

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 02:31 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

HahnSolo wrote: Convention Center is right there too. I'm supposed to be heading out there in January. Looking forward to it. I was there in Feb of 2008 (I swear, if i couldn't search gmail tosee when i talked about things, i'd enver remember when i was where) and it was nice. had a nice chat with a random stranger in the gaslight district about the Mets, and Ruben Gotay if i recall correctly. I was wearing a Mets shirt obviously, but there were a lot of mets fans there for February in San Diego. I flew out there for a random interview, so I guess i came fairly close to almost possibly movingthere and going to a lot of Padres games. I definitely enjoyed the gaslight district though, very nice. Also, that Convention Center has some huge stairs. This company i interviewed at supposedly has a "group run" Fridays at lunch time where they just run up and down those stairs. I'm kinda glad i didn't get the job.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 17 2010 02:43 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

What they could really use is a nice mid-level hotel, like a Holiday Inn or a Marriott Courtyard or a Hampton Inn right across the street from Citi Field, so that out of town guests can safely walk to their hotel after a night game. And why not also have an upper scale hotel and a economy hotel (Days Inn, Red Roof Inn, etc) as well? I'd be much more willing to attend a night game at Citi Field if I could be in a hotel room shortly after the end of the game.

themetfairy Nov 17 2010 02:48 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Benjamin Grimm wrote: What they could really use is a nice mid-level hotel, like a Holiday Inn or a Marriott Courtyard or a Hampton Inn right across the street from Citi Field, so that out of town guests can safely walk to their hotel after a night game. And why not also have an upper scale hotel and a economy hotel (Days Inn, Red Roof Inn, etc) as well? I'd be much more willing to attend a night game at Citi Field if I could be in a hotel room shortly after the end of the game. Something like a Homewood Suites or Embassy Suites would be nice - it makes it easier on families to be able to stay in a suite setting (especially one that includes breakfast).

Ceetar Nov 17 2010 02:49 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Benjamin Grimm wrote: What they could really use is a nice mid-level hotel, like a Holiday Inn or a Marriott Courtyard or a Hampton Inn right across the street from Citi Field, so that out of town guests can safely walk to their hotel after a night game. And why not also have an upper scale hotel and a economy hotel (Days Inn, Red Roof Inn, etc) as well? I'd be much more willing to attend a night game at Citi Field if I could be in a hotel room shortly after the end of the game. perfect. make 'em a sponsor, give discounts with a ticket stub. Offer "get here" packages like the "get away" packages but marketed towards out of town fans that want to come here versus fans here that want to see the team on the road.

SteveJRogers Nov 17 2010 08:58 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

HahnSolo wrote: Convention Center is right there too. I'm supposed to be heading out there in January. Looking forward to it. I was out there this past summer for ComicCon. Friggin epic, pretty much like the Super Bowl for pop culture. The Convention Center is just massive. Beats the Javits Center here in NYC, heh I guess its places like it that really got Bloomberg wanting that Jets West Side Stadium/Convention Center so badly. It is one of those type of places that could contain something like 4-5 different events at the same time as I got the impression of ComicCon that you could literally spend the entire day in just one specific section of the Center, or even the floors themselves it was that massive of a space. Thing I love about Petco when I was out there back in July, the Padres were away in Pittsburgh playing a Wednesday afternoon game and I strolled around the exterior of the ballpark. I get to the park behind the outfield which is open year round and they invite San Diego-ians to come chill with their pets there (Petco, pets, you get the idea). Anyway, I see that on the outfield wall they were broadcasting the game from PNC! So you can chill and watch the Padres AT Petco literally all 162 games if you wanted to (as well as afford all 81 home games and all that time of course). In terms of building a faux Wrigleyville or doing it Gaslamp style? Didn't the Gaslamp district already exist at one point, erode and get rebuilt with the help of getting things like Petco and the Convention Center there? In other words it got rebuilt rather than the WP project is basically from scratch? And yeah, Wrigleyville, like the area around Fenway in Boston just grew organically over the decades, especially with them being the last of the "true" neighborhood ballparks (No, Death Star III in the South Bronx doesn't really count. Or it counts as much as you want to count Flushing/Corona as being a neighborhood for Citi). And comparatively speaking, Gaslamp vs. Wrigleyville, Gaslamp had a mid-town Manhattan feel. Not Times Square-esque, but it just had that sense of upper scale establishments, you had some name brand restaurants, shops and hotels. While Wrigleyville spoke more to a Village like scene is probably a good way of describing it. It wasn't part of the mid-town area, it was off on its own little part of Chicago and while there is a McDonalds across the street from Wrigley and several of the establishments are well known tourist traps by now, it seems more of a "just bubbling under the mainstream" kind of vibe there. If I'm making much sense but that is what I got from being in Chicago. Well, the bottom line though is that the Mets and NYC do want this to turn into a Gaslamp district setting with the name brand hotels, restaurants, etc.

Edgy DC Nov 17 2010 09:01 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

The only feel I got from San Diego's Gaslamp district was a Disney one.

SteveJRogers Nov 17 2010 09:23 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Edgy DC wrote: The only feel I got from San Diego's Gaslamp district was a Disney one. Oh, speaking of which, Disney Land is pretty much down the street from Angels Stadium in Anaheim.

Frayed Knot Nov 18 2010 06:53 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Didn't the Gaslamp district already exist at one point, erode and get rebuilt with the help of getting things like Petco and the Convention Center there? In other words it got rebuilt rather than the WP project is basically from scratch? Yes, that's pretty much the deal. Much like the waterfront area in Baltimore when Camden Yards was one piece of a larger urban renewal deal. The specific spot of Petco was an aging manufacturing area which, like everywhere else, barely exist in inner-cities these days. The thing is, both those places are in/near the center of 'downtown', something the WP area of northern Queens is never going to be no matter what you try to stick there. NYC has no equivalent spot as Manhattan doesn't have that kind of room - except for via goofy & expensive ideas where railroad yards are 'roofed' over and then a stadium built on top. The model for CitiField should be closer to a Wrigley-like residential & neighborhood feel although the criss-crossing highways that effectively cut it off from the rest of Queens are going to put a limit on just how chummy it can get. The Javitz Center is a corrupt mess and has been since virtually day one of its existence.

metsmarathon Nov 18 2010 07:00 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

SteveJRogers wrote: Edgy DC wrote: The only feel I got from San Diego's Gaslamp district was a Disney one. Oh, speaking of which, Disney Land is pretty much down the street from Angels Stadium in Anaheim. having run (circuitously) from one to the other and (less circuitously) back again, it's really not all that much of a great walk. two miles. the mile closer to disneyland has you walking past hotels and retail complexes, but not really walking through them. the mile closer to the stadium is really just a giant industrial complex, that, i guess, is starting to get more hotels and shit in there. in between is a giant overpass for I-5. new york and san francisco are also pretty much down the street from one another. that's not a great walk either.

Ceetar Nov 18 2010 07:02 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

SteveJRogers wrote: Edgy DC wrote: The only feel I got from San Diego's Gaslamp district was a Disney one. Oh, speaking of which, Disney Land is pretty much down the street from Angels Stadium in Anaheim. Definitely good for a two-part trip(in fact, that's what I did when i was there, as well as San Diego and losing one of our party in Mexico), and I do enjoy the downtown Disney area, but it's not quite "down the street" as it's not really walking distance, although there is public transportation that'll get you there. But I think that's the best we can hope for around Citi. What would be absoutely perfect, IMO, is a big beer garden with tvs.

Ceetar Nov 18 2010 07:03 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

metsmarathon wrote: new york and san francisco are also pretty much down the street from one another. that's not a great walk either. Well, it's not as bad if you take a break at Chicago in the middle.

Vic Sage Nov 18 2010 08:10 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

What would be absoutely perfect, IMO, is a big beer garden with tvs. when would this not be true?

Ceetar Nov 18 2010 08:26 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Vic Sage wrote: What would be absoutely perfect, IMO, is a big beer garden with tvs. when would this not be true? umm...uhh... maybe as an AA meeting location?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 18 2010 01:58 PM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Ceetar wrote: Vic Sage wrote: What would be absoutely perfect, IMO, is a big beer garden with tvs. when would this not be true? umm...uhh... maybe as an AA meeting location? Depends on whether you see Nietzche as dead German philosopher or as a life coach-at-a-remove. Also... would've been a great place for a Strawberry's Grill, no?

Edgy DC Feb 03 2011 08:28 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

Iron Triangle Endgame.

Vic Sage Feb 03 2011 08:35 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

...there are many challenges to sort out, including the years of industrial waste that must be cleaned, and the raising of the entire site by 7 feet to meet flood-plain requirements. Also there will be dead bodies dug up that need identifying. heh heh heh. its funny cuz its true.

Ceetar Feb 03 2011 08:55 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

let's just say that the Mets stand a better chance of winning the World Series than some guy does of keeping his scrap heap behind the outfield. *sigh* no timetable though..think they can have the immediate street outside the Bullpen Gate cleared by say...July of 2013?

Valadius Feb 03 2011 08:56 AM Re: Redeveloping Willets Point

I would not be surprised to see the FBI send in their Jimmy Hoffa unit.