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Rank your 2010 Mets

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2010 07:31 AM

All right, it’s that time again. You’ve ranked the rookies, you’ve ranked the starters, (hell, we’ve even ranked Beatle babes) so now it’s time to rank the whole rank lot of them. As always (or for those who haven’t played before) we’re looking to rank the top 30 Mets as to their contributions to the 2010 season. A reminder, one which may be more applicable this year than in most, is that we’re attempting to measure [u:2lpevgdf]actual contribution[/u:2lpevgdf] to the club this past year and not just how players did compared to salary or prior expectations. IOW, feel free to put Dickey ahead of Santana but only if you think he really had a better season, not just was better only when ‘graded on a curve’ of lower expectations or better bang for the buck. Ditto with, say, Pagan & Wright, or with anyone else who played this past year. Use whatever method you want, just be prepared to back up your choices and logic. Results get compiled into our previous 49 years of ranks and are used to determine the best Mets of all time which show up on your posts under your name. We get to pick our 30 from the 47 players appeared in a NYM uni this year. 27 different position players listed by most to fewest PAs: Wright - Pagan - Reyes - Davis - Francoeur Bay - Castillo - Barajas - Tejada - Beltran Thole - Cora - Carter - Blanco - Feliciano Duda - Tatis - Hessman - Mathews - Hernandez Evans - Arias - Jacobs - Catalanotto - Martinez Nickeas - Turner and 20 Pitchers (seemed like more) sorted by Innings Pitched: Pelfrey - Santana - Dickey - Niese - Takahashi Feliciano - Valdes - Rodriguez - Dessens - Perez Nieve - Maine - Acosta - Mejia - Misch Parnell - Gee - Igarashi - Green - Stoner

seawolf17 Nov 08 2010 07:57 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Wright Pagan Reyes Davis Dickey Santana Pelfrey Takahashi Niese Castillo Rodriguez Barajas Bay Beltran Thole Francoeur Blanco PFeliciano Dessens Valdes Tejada Carter Cora JFeliciano Nieve Acosta Duda Mejia Gee Parnell

Edgy MD Nov 08 2010 09:55 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

i've got some work to do here. The true legacy of Gary Matthews, Jr. may be that he took enough time away from Angel Pagan to keep him from being the top Mets player.

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2010 10:50 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Looking at the position players first: Only four players played essentially a full season which, along with their level of play, puts them a clear jump ahead of the rest. Wright gets my top spot -- led team in PAs & ABs, 2Bs, XBHs & HRs (by a lot!), TBs, SFs, OBA, SLG, IsoP, Runs Created and RC/27 and those last two weren’t all that close either. OK, he also led in Ks & Errors ... Pagan - a season as good or better than most of us hoped as he proved himself to be a real, live starting outfielder this year. Still, he barely out-hit Wright in BA despite leading by wider margins all year; didn’t walk much, had wide RH/LH splits and doesn’t slug like the corner OFer he mostly is on this team (at least for now). Very nice season and completely turned around his bone-headed running/fielding gaffes from the previous year, just not the best on the team. Reyes - I’m giving him 3rd place amongst hitters over Davis on the basis of a similar number of XBHs (50 vs 53) and the position he plays and despite the lower OBP (33 pts) Davis - seemed lost in the middle there for a while after a strong start and before his good finish. Stabilized the position defensively and managed to maintain a decent OBP (.351) even as the BA sank. Lots of Ks and GiDPs Of the less-than full-timers: Bay - Really?!? The 5th best offensive player? Ummm, yeah. Look, as disappointing as he was considering the money and all, he managed 32 XBHs in 400-some PAs and a decent OBP (.351) while he was there even if the HRs were virtually non-existent. Beltran - Started to come on at the end but too little too late. Essentially had Bay’s stats only with half the ABs and not the edge defensively that he’d usually have. Thole - Little power to speak of but got on base and impressed behind the plate. Francoeur - 5th in ABs on the team. Ummm, played a good outfield and had a nack for the occassional big hit Barajas - Solid six weeks of power. Then nothing. Tejada & Castillo - Tejada made outs more often (.298 OBA) but also fielded better and at least managed to hit the occasional double so he wins this race. Castillo is next. Carter - Most all-around useful bench player Cora - Unfortunately, this is what backup middle infielders look like when pressed into full-time service. Blanco - Threw out runners and hit like ... well like a backup catcher Duda - Power and walks, even if not much else. Felicano - A pinch-hitter with lousy OBA and little power. Was useful defensively. Evans Outside looking in: Tatis, Hessman, Mathews, Arias, Jacobs, Catalanotto, Martinez, Nickeas, Turner

Vince Coleman Firecracker Nov 08 2010 02:37 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Pagan Wright Santana Dickey Davis Pelfrey Reyes Niese Takahashi Thole Beltran Rodriguez Bay PFeliciano Barajas Parnell Gee Acosta Blanco Dessens Castillo Carter Misch Hernandez Francoeur Evans Mejia Duda Valdes (for participation) Tejada (for attendance)

TransMonk Nov 08 2010 03:22 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

David Wright Johan Santana R.A. Dickey Mike Pelfrey Ike Davis Angel Pagan Jose Reyes Jonathon Niese Hisanori Takahashi Jason Bay Jeff Francoeur Francisco Rodriguez Carlos Beltran Elmer Dessens Pedro Feliciano Josh Thole Rod Barajas Luis Castillo Dillon Gee Manny Acosta Chris Carter Bobby Parnell Ruben Tejada Raul Valdes Pat Misch Jenrry Mejia Alex Cora Fernando Nieve Henry Blanco Lucas Duda

G-Fafif Nov 09 2010 12:13 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

30 Wright 29 Pelfrey 28 Santana 27 Davis 26 Dickey 25 Pagan 24 Reyes 23 Niese 22 Bay 21 Takahashi 20 Francoeur 19 Barajas 18 Tejada 17 Beltran 16 Castillo 15 Rodriguez 14 Carter 13 PFeliciano 12 Blanco 11 Gee 10 Thole 9 Evans 8 Valdes 7 Maine 6 Nieve 5 Duda 4 Dessens 3 Parnell 2 Mejia 1 Misch I was intrigued by the word "contributions" in FK's mission statement. To me, contributions means contributions to winning. Thus, my methodology started with my own Schaefer point dispersal in the 79 Mets wins, rewarding those who led (generally the top three) on a daily/nightly basis. Then, understanding that my PotG balloting tends to de-emphasize relief pitching, I worked up a formula to put some kind of value (in addition to any reliever Schaefer points earned in wins -- there are never many of them on my scorecard) on usage in wins (particularly for Rodriguez and, when he was closing, Takahashi) and usage in a broader sense (with some emphasis on usage in wins) for other relievers. I figure non-closer relievers merit consideration for appearances and innings given they're often saving the bullpen for the next day. There was some counterweight included to take into account lousy relief pitching so as to give a more accurate portrayal of the reliever's season. (Nothing was given out for saves, per se.) Takahashi's total was an amalgamation of his starting, middle relieving and closing roles. Other points were added if a position player or starting pitcher (as starting pitcher) was in more winning games than losing games (a frighteningly small cohort); for most appearances in winning games by position players; for being among team WAR leaders; for walkoff RBIs (because I tend to undervalue them in the Schaefer voting and I believe they help define the winning aspects of any season); and, because my watching this team for six months had to be worth something, a little gut instinct to massage the whole thing. Wright placed first by a wide margin. Pelfrey set the pace among pitchers mostly because he was in the rotation the entire season, whereas Santana missed a month at the end and Dickey didn't appear for the first month-and-a-half. Davis's big impact came in winning games more so than Pagan's or Reyes's. Thole suffered from playing a lot while the Mets were terrible (record with Thole: 26-47) while Tejada benefited from playing in/arguably contributing to winning Mets games (record with Tejada: 42-36). I spent way too much time on this.

Frayed Knot Nov 09 2010 08:25 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Pitching comparisons: Santana vs Dickey -- Very close seasons. One wasn’t there at the beginning, the other not there at the end. But in between had identical records (11-9) and both deserved better support. Similar ERAs (Dickey better by 0.14), and essentially identical WHiPs. Dickey actually walked fewer but didn’t K nearly as many. I’m putting Johan up top on the basis of 3 extra starts and 25 more IP. Pelfrey -- Led staff in wins, IPs, and starts. Was lights out for a while but also had more bad games than the above two which led to significantly higher ERA & WHiP numbers. Niese -- 2nd on the team in games started and might have been up there fighting it out with the leaders if not for his late season crash ‘n burn. Takahashi -- Allowed fewer baserunners/IP (WHiP) than anyone on the staff while flopping between starting (12 starts), long relief, medium relief & short relief, and finally was near flawless during a short stint of closing. Rodriguez -- 25 saves vs 5 blown with a 2.20 ERA and reasonably low WHiP would be considered a decent to good year for a closer if not for how it ended. Dessens -- Lower ERA than anyone on the team not nicknamed KRod while filling a variety of roles. Also walked very few (almost a freak show on this staff) which is how he was able to K just 16 batters in 47 innings and get away with it. Parnell -- You’d like to see young guys like this less confined to specific roles, but he did OK at times with the limitations Feliciano -- Too many walks (even if some were strategic) pushed his WHiP up high but maybe that’s part of the bargain when you appear in 9 games per week. Acosta -- Too many walks (lather, rinse, repeat) but over a K an inning while less than one hit per. Valdes -- Mejia -- Gee -- Acquitted himself well in a brief time Misch -- Decent stats but appeared in just 12 games Nieve -- Overuse caught up to him. Too many HRs Igarashi -- ERA over 7 Maine -- WHiP near 2.00 and 8 HRs in less than 40 IP Perez -- Like Maine but worse Stoner -- Green -- Now I have to figure out how to combine the two halves.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 09 2010 08:27 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Schaefer only recognizes the positive. Schaefer probably thinks that Dave Kingman is one the game's all-time, inner-circle greats.

Vic Sage Nov 09 2010 02:36 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

you mean he's not?

Vic Sage Nov 09 2010 02:49 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

purely gut reaction, with little to no analysis... Wright Pagan Santana Dickey Pelfrey Davis Niese Takahashi Rodriguez Reyes Bay Thole Beltran Dessens Parnell Feliciano Acosta Carter Francoeur Barajas Tejada Castillo Duda Blanco Gee Misch Mejia Nieve Valdes Cora

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 09 2010 03:12 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Wright Pagan Reyes Davis Santana Dickey Pelfrey Niese Takahashi Rodriguez Bay Beltran Thole Parnell PFeliciano Barajas Tejada Castillo Carter Acosta Dessens Blanco Francoeur Gee Duda Evans Cora JFeliciano Mejia Valdes

Edgy MD Nov 09 2010 08:45 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

30 Wright * * * 29 Pagan * * * 28 Santana 27 Dickey 26 Rodriguez 25 Davis 24 Reyes * * * 23 Bay * * * 22 Takahashi 21 Pelfey 20 Acosta 19 Francoeur 18 PFeliciano 17 Niese 16 Beltran 15 Dessens 14 Thole 13 Barajas 12 Parnell * * * 11 Gee 10 Tejada 9 Castillo 8 Carter 7 Valdes * * * 6 Blanco 5 Mejia 4 Duda 3 Misch 2 Evans 1 Hernandez

TransMonk Nov 10 2010 07:08 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Edgy likes them relievers.

Edgy MD Nov 10 2010 07:52 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Do I? I just guess it shook out that way because of partial seasons by the Mets top two starters, and the other two coming in with a third-of-the-season block pitching consitently poorly. But, of course, Rodriguez missed meaningful time (in volume, if not in import) too. I'll review.

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2010 09:52 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Takahashi and K-Rod's relief stats are similar. So then why the disparity in WAR? K-Rod 57.1 IP/2.1 WAR Tak 122 IP/1.3 WAR Was Tak so bad as a starter that his starter WAR approached -1.0? Tak the starter: WHIP 1.45 ERA 5.01 ERC 5.03 IP 64.2 K 54 BB 21 H 73 http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_ ... e/minip/40

batmagadanleadoff Nov 10 2010 10:18 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Takahashi and K-Rod's relief stats are similar. So then why the disparity in WAR? K-Rod 57.1 IP/2.1 WAR Tak 122 IP/1.3 WAR Was Tak so bad as a starter that his starter WAR approached -1.0? Tak the starter: WHIP 1.45 ERA 5.01 ERC 5.03 IP 64.2 K 54 BB 21 H 73 http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching/_ ... e/minip/40 My bad. This post belongs in the Franco McRosco thread.

Frayed Knot Nov 10 2010 05:50 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Made a few minor adjustments from my preliminary lists and my earlier vote in the rookie thread. 30 - Wright 29 - Pagan 28 - Santana 27 - Dickey 26 - Pelfrey 25 - Reyes 24 - Niese 23 - Davis 22 - Takahashi 21 - Rodriguez 20 - Bay 19 - Beltran 18 - Thole 17 - Dessens 16 - Francoeur 15 - Feliciano 14 - Parnell 13 - Barajas 12 - Tejada 11 - Castillo 10 - Acosta 9 - Carter 8 - Valdes 7 - Mejia 6 - Cora 5 - Blanco 4 - Duda 3 - Gee 2 - Misch 1 - J. Feliciano

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2010 07:41 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Bumping this up to the top seeing as how it’s been dormant for several weeks now. Anyone who still wants to chime in with a list of their own, an update to an existing list, or just throw in some comments do so soon before we put this to bed. What we have so far is a fairly tight consensus emerging - especially as compared to last year’s where opinions were all over the place with top ten votes according to one not even making the cut for another. Here, so far anyway, the top 5 almost all got top 5 votes from everyone even if not always in the exact same order. Beyond that: - Pelfrey rates as high as 2nd place (GFaFiF) and as low as 10th (Edgy) - Reyes varies from 3rd place (Seawolf) to 10th (Vic Sage) - Niese goes from 7th (V. Sage & F. Knot) to 13th (Edgy) Biggest spreads so far are for: -Francoeur: as high as 9th place (TransMonk) and as low as 25th (VFC) - Rodriguez: 5th (Edgy) to 16th (GFaFiF) - Thole: 10th (VFC) to 21st (GFaFiF) - Dessens: 14th (F. Knot) to 27th (GFaFiF) - Tejada: 13th (GFaFiF) to 30th (VCF) - Parnell: 14th (LWFS) to 29th (Seawolf) - Acosta: 11th best (Edgy) to not mentioned (GFaFiF)

TransMonk Nov 29 2010 08:11 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Frayed Knot wrote: Biggest spreads so far are for: -Francoeur: as high as 9th place (TransMonk) and as low as 25th (VFC) I've got Frenchy in 11th place...as does Greg. That lowers that spread a bit.

Edgy MD Nov 29 2010 08:16 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

I'll supbract a few EDB* points from Rodriguez and drop him two slots, but the averaging will have to do the rest. 30 Wright * * * 29 Pagan * * * 28 Santana 27 Dickey 26 Davis 25 Reyes 24 Rodriguez * * * 23 Bay * * * 22 Takahashi 21 Pelfey 20 Acosta 19 Francoeur 18 PFeliciano 17 Niese 16 Beltran 15 Dessens 14 Thole 13 Barajas 12 Parnell * * * 11 Gee 10 Tejada 9 Castillo 8 Carter 7 Valdes * * * 6 Blanco 5 Mejia 4 Duda 3 Misch 2 Evans 1 Hernandez *Enormous Douche Bag

Frayed Knot Dec 07 2010 08:07 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Going ... going ...

seawolf17 Dec 07 2010 08:12 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

I'm not sure why I put Parnell and Acosta so low. I slid them up, but everything else remains the same. Wright Pagan Reyes Davis Dickey Santana Pelfrey Takahashi Niese Castillo Rodriguez Barajas Bay Beltran Thole Francoeur Blanco PFeliciano Acosta Parnell Dessens Valdes Tejada Carter Cora JFeliciano Nieve Duda Mejia Gee

Edgy MD Dec 07 2010 08:26 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

I hadn't realized I had thrown Cora overboard.

seawolf17 Dec 07 2010 08:49 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Edgy DC wrote: I hadn't realized I had thrown Cora overboard. Mostly because he couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

Frayed Knot Dec 20 2010 05:40 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Figure to keep this open until New Years - so speak soon or forever ...

Frayed Knot Jan 03 2011 07:07 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

RANK PLAYER 30 D. WRIGHT 29 A. PAGAN 28 J. SANTANA 27 R. A. DICKEY 26 I. DAVIS 25 M. PELFREY 24 J. REYES 23 J. NIESE 22 H. TAKAHASHI 21 J. BAY 20 F. RODRIGUEZ 19 C. BELTRAN 18 J. THOLE 17 J. FRANCOEUR 16 R. BARAJAS 15 P. FELICIANO 14 E. DESSENS 13 L. CASTILLO 12 B. PARNELL 11 M. ACOSTA 10 C. CARTER 9 R. TEJADA 8 D. GEE 7 H. BLANCO 6 R. VALDES 5 L. DUDA 4 J. MEJIA 3 A. CORA 2 P. MISCH 1 F. NIEVE

Edgy MD Jan 03 2011 07:31 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

Thole as 12th best guy is pretty stunning.

Frayed Knot Jan 03 2011 07:39 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

13th actually, but still. btw, this thread should eventually be moved to the Ranking Forum.

metsmarathon Jan 03 2011 08:33 PM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

dangit... i'm working to update my spreadsheet and tehn tally everything up, for comparison sake. i wouldn't begin to suggest that i hold up the works. i just might offer up a dissenting opinion once i'm thru. the 'bot will surely have an interesting take, as well.

Frayed Knot Nov 04 2011 09:58 AM Re: Rank your 2010 Mets

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