Master Index of Archived Threads


Arb Deadline Tonight

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2010 07:21 AM

Biggest local question is Pedro Feliciano. Adam Rubin seems to think that they'll NOT make an offer for fear of getting stuck with a $4mil price tag on an aging LOOGY who appeared in 468 games just last season alone. The restriction about not being able to then make a deal with your own non-arb offered player no longer exists so the Mets & Pedro could still reach an agreement separate from this process, only with the other 29 teams being able to compete as well. That means the only drawback to NOT offering is, that as a 'Type B' FA, Pedro signing with another team would net us a Supplemental Round pick in next year's draft. No arb = no pick regardless of if/where he signs.

Ceetar Nov 23 2010 07:30 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Frayed Knot wrote: Biggest local question is Pedro Feliciano. Adam Rubin seems to think that they'll NOT make an offer for fear of getting stuck with a $4mil price tag on an aging LOOGY who appeared in 468 games just last season alone. The restriction about not being able to then make a deal with your own non-arb offered player no longer exists so the Mets & Pedro could still reach an agreement separate from this process, only with the other 29 teams being able to compete as well. That means the only drawback to NOT offering is, that as a 'Type B' FA, Pedro signing with another team would net us a Supplemental Round pick in next year's draft. No arb = no pick regardless of if/where he signs. They've already let one solid bullpen pitcher go, can they really afford to let another one go? I know LOOGY's are not super-important pieces, but it just adds yet another piece for Sandy to find, and risks that guy not being good. So far Sandy has only lost players. Feliciano has pitched a lot, but he's proven he can handle that, and 60IP is not 260IP. would one year, at a max of a 1-2 million raise and the possibility of a draft pick if he leaves, really be a bad idae?

metirish Nov 23 2010 07:31 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

So , mot only are you weighing the possible price tag but also the supplemental round draft pick......not sure if I want him back regardless of any of that...he wasn't that good against righties last season was he?

Ceetar Nov 23 2010 07:40 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

metirish wrote: So , mot only are you weighing the possible price tag but also the supplemental round draft pick......not sure if I want him back regardless of any of that...he wasn't that good against righties last season was he? Why are we pitching him against righties again? We face Ryan Howard 18 times, he's only hit home runs against lefty relievers 3 times in his career. To me, having a good LOOGY goes a long way towards winning some of those games.

Edgy DC Nov 23 2010 07:42 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

As far as risking someone not being good, it's not like Pedro is guaranteed. He coudn't find the strike zone for long stretches the second half. It really seemed like Manuel had used him up and he was faking it for a while there. He was needing three batters to get one out and seemed like a generous contributor the Kingdom of Grandslamia. I'd love to have him back but I'd sure want a strong backup plan at this point. As it stands, our lefthanded specialist is Pat Misch, with backup plans in Raul Valdes and Oliver Perez. None of them has shown a particular effectiveness against lefties however.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 23 2010 07:43 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

I thought it was time to let Feliciano fly a few years ago (and was very wrong), not to mention last summer (and was very right) but I'd be inclined to try and retain him now for a year with the idea that if he accepts you could have a worse guy around and oughta still be able to find a taker round July if necessary, and if he doesn't accept then no biggie. I mean he could suck or get hurt and you'd be left holding the bag but it aint my $$.

metirish Nov 23 2010 07:52 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

They tried him against righties and it didn't work that good, he wanted that role and he wasn't that good , so yeah , why do that. You want to pay big money for a specialist?

Ceetar Nov 23 2010 08:29 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

metirish wrote: They tried him against righties and it didn't work that good, he wanted that role and he wasn't that good , so yeah , why do that. You want to pay big money for a specialist? I mean, I know people have written off 2011, but I'm not sure losing pitcher after pitcher is a good strategy in any way. We're only talking about a million or two raise here. if the team feels a lefty specialist is important, why not the one we know and theoretically trust? Do we think we can get better? doesn't Aldy have enough to worry about?

Edgy DC Nov 23 2010 09:05 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

I mean, I know people have written off 2011... I haven't. I'm jonesin' to party. ... but I'm not sure losing pitcher after pitcher is a good strategy in any way. I'm certain that isn't their strategy in any way and they mean to acquire some players also. We're only talking about a million or two raise here. And maybe they think they can spend that money better elsewhere. I don't know. Maybe they'll sweep in with a midnight offer. if the team feels a lefty specialist is important, why not the one we know and theoretically trust? Do we think we can get better? doesn't Aldy have enough to worry about? I think if you slice up his 2010 season, there's plenty to worry about with Feliciano. Aldy?

Ceetar Nov 23 2010 09:09 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Edgy DC wrote: I mean, I know people have written off 2011... I haven't. I'm jonesin' to party. ... but I'm not sure losing pitcher after pitcher is a good strategy in any way. I'm certain that isn't their strategy in any way and they mean to acquire some players also. We're only talking about a million or two raise here. And maybe they think they can spend that money better elsewhere. I don't know. Maybe they'll sweep in with a midnight offer. if the team feels a lefty specialist is important, why not the one we know and theoretically trust? Do we think we can get better? doesn't Aldy have enough to worry about? I think if you slice up his 2010 season, there's plenty to worry about with Feliciano. Aldy? Aldy? I thought we were going cutesy in this thread. I'm not going to be disappointed if they let him go, but I don't think the downside of having to pay him an extra million or so is even much of a downside, and certainly not for the possibility of a replacement pick. his numbers against lefties still seemed good in 2010.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 23 2010 09:23 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

His numbers WERE good against lefties-- he faced 139 of them last year, and only 36 of them got on, with only 8 of those hitting anything other than singles. He threw a .211/.297/.276 against them; in short, he made Chase Utley, Joey Votto, and Carlos Gonzalez look like Omir Santos on an off-year. THAT's what he does, and he did that just as well last year as he ever has. The "downside" of offering him arb? You get "stuck" with a 4-million dollar one-year-deal for the league's best LOOGY. (The scuttlebutt seems to be that he's looking for a 2-to-3-year deal. Teams like, say, the Phils seem amenable to that-- it would be a decrease from what they paid J. C. Romero to do the same thing more poorly these past two years.) The upside is a sandwich pick for a management team that looks forward to the draft like kids do [crossout:22fcz4ev]Arbor Day[/crossout:22fcz4ev] Christmas... or having the league's best LOOGY for slightly-above-market-rate.

Ashie62 Nov 23 2010 09:30 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

I would be very surprised if the Mets offered Feliciano Arbitration. Alderson will save the dough.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 23 2010 09:37 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Adam Rubin wrote: Mets will offer arbitration to Pedro Feliciano. 3 minutes ago

Edgy DC Nov 23 2010 09:38 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Adam Rubin wrote: Ashie's head explodes. 1 minute ago.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2010 09:41 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Adam Rubin wrote: Mets will offer arbitration to Pedro Feliciano. 3 minutes ago Confirmed by Sandy on SNY.

Valadius Nov 23 2010 09:45 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Hooray! I kind of like the fact that we hold onto guys for longer than four or five years, even if they're not franchise cornerstones.

TransMonk Nov 23 2010 09:47 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Pedro is a franchise cornerstone. Metly since 2002. No one else can say that. Still, I'm surprised.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2010 09:48 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

No guarantee that Pedro will be back. He's still free to sign with someone else.

Ceetar Nov 23 2010 10:06 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Anyone else eligible that needs (err, not 'needs', but who's eligible?) to be offered yet? Maine?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 23 2010 10:09 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Pelf, Green, Dickey, Maine, Pagan.

Ceetar Nov 23 2010 10:17 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Pelf, Green, Dickey, Maine, Pagan. Do they bother offering Green? Can't see how he'd make much anyway right? probably better just to cut ties. I wouldn't be against them negotiating a long term deal with Pelf. Lock up quality pitching. gotta offer Dickey and Pagan, that probably happens shortly. cant' see them offering Maine anything. Be surprised if he gets more than a minor league invite anywhere.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2010 10:39 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Pelf, Green, Dickey, Maine, Pagan. Obviously yes, definitely no, Yes, doubt it, Yes -- those are my guesses anyway. And, yeah, offering Arb doesn't mean you keep Pedro, only that he can accept that process which means a new one-year salary at a to-be determined rate - or that if he does skip out we net a draft choice probably in the 35-50 range.

seawolf17 Nov 23 2010 10:44 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Pelf, Green, Dickey, Maine, Pagan. Yes, no, yes, no, yes. What's Pelf's other choice? He's not a FA if he declines arb yet, right?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 23 2010 10:52 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

No. Pelfrey and Dickey and Pagan are not free agents, so the only reason for them not to go to arbitration is if they negotiate a contract beforehand.

seawolf17 Nov 23 2010 10:52 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

That's right; I remember. It's the whole "avoiding arbitration" thing.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2010 11:29 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

And it's not so much Pelfrey's choice as it is the club's. In those pre-FA cases offering arb is simply a statement of continued team interest which has to be declared by tonight. Once offered it binds the player to the team for the upcoming year. Those not offered - say, Maine, for instance - will become FAs even though still short of their 6 years ML time.

smg58 Nov 23 2010 12:37 PM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Do the pre-FA arb-eligible guys find out today as well? Like I said before I'm willing to go year-to-year with Pedro, even if it means paying more up front. If somebody else offers him multiple years, though, I'd take the pick and move on.

Frayed Knot Nov 23 2010 01:40 PM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 24 2010 06:40 AM

Today is the last day for [u:1ut315qc]clubs to offer[/u:1ut315qc] arbitration - pre-FA or not. There'll be another deadline* for players to decide whether they want to accept. So nothing is going to be decided on Pedro (et al) tonight, only that he's theirs *IF* he opts to accept and that they'll get a draft pick if he declines and signs elsewhere. * Midnight - Nov 30

Ashie62 Nov 23 2010 02:27 PM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Edgy DC wrote: Adam Rubin wrote: Ashie's head explodes. 1 minute ago. nah, it's all good! I'm actually thinking how Terry Collins and Mike Pelfrey will get along.

Frayed Knot Nov 24 2010 06:37 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

A list of those players qualifying for either Type A or Type B FA status Offered Arb: TYPE A TYPE B V. MARTINEZ - BOS A. HEILMAN J. DE LA ROSA - COL O. DOTEL P. KORERKO - CWS JJ PUTZ - CWS J. WERTH - PHI P. FELICIANO - NYM G. BALFOUR - TBR J. VAZQUEZ - NYY C. CRAWFORD - TBR J. BENOIT - TBR R. SORIANO - TBR R. CHOATE - TBR F. FRANCISCO - TEX B. HAWPE - TBR C. LEE - TEX C. QUALLS - TBR A. DUNN - WAS J. BUCK - TOR A. BELTRE - BOS A. LaROCHE - ARZ C. PAVANO - MIN F. LOPEZ - BOS ---- T. HOFFMAN - MIL ---- J. URIBE - SFG ---- J. CRAIN - MIN ---- O. HUDSON - MIN ---- K. CORREIA - SDP ---- J. GARLAND - SDP ---- Y. TORREALBA - SDP NOT Offered Arb: TYPE A(BOS) TYPE B AJ PIERZYNSKI - CWS D. LEE - ATL M. RAMIREZ - CWS K. MILLWOOD - BAL M. ORDONEZ - DET J. VARITEK - BOS D. JETER NYY J. DAMON - DET A. PETTITTE - NYY G. LAIRD - DET M. RIVERA - NYY H. MATSUI - LAA B. MOLINA - TEX L. BERKMAN - NYY D. WHEELER - TBR K. WOOD - NYY V. GUERRERO - TEX C. DURBIN - PHI M. GUERRIER - MIN C. PENA - TBR ---- S. POSEDNIK - LAD ---- R. BARAJAS - LAD ---- V. PADILLA - LAD ---- B. FUENTES - MIN ---- J. RAUCH - MIN

Frayed Knot Nov 24 2010 06:50 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Frayed Knot wrote: In those pre-FA cases offering arb is simply a statement of continued team interest which has to be declared by tonight. Once offered it binds the player to the team for the upcoming year. Those not offered - say, Maine, for instance - will become FAs even though still short of their 6 years ML time. This was not quite right. Last night was only the deadline for offering Arb to potential FAs - something which doesn't affect Pelfrey at al. The filing period for arbitration eligible cases involving non-FAs doesn't come around until January. In between now and then, teams simply need to offer a contract to any unsigned players by December 12 in order to retain their rights.

smg58 Nov 24 2010 07:51 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Jorge de la Rosa reminds me of another relatively young Type A lefty who got a generous contract based on upside rather than actual on-field performance. Maybe he'll be worth the draft picks.

Frayed Knot Nov 24 2010 08:00 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

I think he's the 2nd best pitcher available after Lee

Valadius Nov 24 2010 08:20 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

I think he's Javier Vazquez waiting to happen.

seawolf17 Nov 24 2010 08:29 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Valadius wrote: I think he's Javier Vazquez waiting to happen. BBR says his most similar pitcher to date is Allen Watson, which is hardly a ringing endorsement, but you have to take Colorado out of the picture. I wouldn't pay him big bucks, and especially not if it involves sacrificing draft picks, but you're referring to Vazquez as a failure, which he most certainly isn't. I'd definitely look at Javy. Two years, $16 million? One year, $9 million? He'd be a great fit.

Ceetar Nov 24 2010 08:31 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

seawolf17 wrote: Valadius wrote: I think he's Javier Vazquez waiting to happen. BBR says his most similar pitcher to date is Allen Watson, which is hardly a ringing endorsement, but you have to take Colorado out of the picture. I wouldn't pay him big bucks, and especially not if it involves sacrificing draft picks, but you're referring to Vazquez as a failure, which he most certainly isn't. I'd definitely look at Javy. Two years, $16 million? One year, $9 million? He'd be a great fit. ew. I hope he accepts abitration actually.

seawolf17 Nov 24 2010 08:36 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

He's one year removed from finishing fourth in the Cy Young race for a key division rival, with a 1.026 WHIP and a 2.87 ERA. Take his two Yankee years out of the equation, and he's been very, very good.

Ceetar Nov 24 2010 08:48 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

seawolf17 wrote: He's one year removed from finishing fourth in the Cy Young race for a key division rival, with a 1.026 WHIP and a 2.87 ERA. Take his two Yankee years out of the equation, and he's been very, very good. I put the most weight on the most recent data. and it was trending downward, and not in a good way. velocity, K/9..all the fringe stats suggest he didn't just have a bad year.

Valadius Nov 24 2010 09:02 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Vazquez is probably the most unreliable pitcher I've ever seen, in a different way than Ollie Perez. Vazquez always seems to have wild swings back and forth from being a very good pitcher one year to being very bad the next.

seawolf17 Nov 24 2010 09:30 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Valadius wrote: Vazquez is probably the most unreliable pitcher I've ever seen, in a different way than Ollie Perez. Vazquez always seems to have wild swings back and forth from being a very good pitcher one year to being very bad the next. Where? At what point in his career, until last year, was he "very bad"?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Nov 24 2010 11:06 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

I would say "buy low" on Vazquez, but those peripherals trends are a little spooky. He's had some one-year dips in K-rate, but his walk rate hasn't been above 3 since his first year or two in the league... and never as high as last year. And he IS 34, so the chances that it's just a one-year blip aren't as significant as they used to be. That said... I don't know that there's a better high-reward gamble out there, if he'll come semi-cheap. I have a feeling he won't, though... and with Johan out 'til question mark, it ain't bloody likely. Weren't Downs and Frasor Type-As? Did they get offered arb? If not...

seawolf17 Nov 24 2010 11:11 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

I'm saying a Ben Sheets-style one-year deal could really pan out on Vazquez. If an NL team somehow buys him low, they're going to get great value.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 27 2010 03:07 PM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Pedro Feliciano is reportedly "leaning towards" accepting arbitration from the Mets.

metirish Nov 30 2010 09:55 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Feliciano has officialy declined arbitration from the Mets....per various tweets

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2010 09:56 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Good for him, hopefully us too.

Ceetar Nov 30 2010 10:02 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

metirish wrote: Feliciano has officialy declined arbitration from the Mets....per various tweets aww.

Ceetar Nov 30 2010 10:06 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Who of 2010 is a sure thing in the bullpen for 2011. Parnell? Gonna be a lot of new faces.

Edgy DC Nov 30 2010 10:10 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Even Parnell ended the season on the OwieOwie List, so even with him there's some ambiguity.

metirish Nov 30 2010 11:14 AM Re: Arb Deadline Tonight

Orlando Hudson will reject arbitration.