Master Index of Archived Threads


Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Frayed Knot Dec 01 2010 05:17 PM

Thursday night is the deadline for teams to offer contracts to their arb-eligible/pre-FA players. Several rumored players who may be cut loose are catchers, one or more of which might be the type we could hook up with Thole in Queens next season (as long as they don't hook up AS queens if you know what I mean). - Russell Martin - LAD Russell Nathan Coltrane Jeansone Martin is coming off two declining (and somewhat injured) years since his two consecutive AS seasons. Hits R and not even 28 until spring training (good). Not known for defense plus the whole injured and declining thing (bad) Of course if everything were good about him he wouldn't be on the list of possible non-tender candidates now would he? - Jeff Mathis - LAA The one-time hot prospect in the Angels system has never really hit (.199/.265/.311 in 1,000 ABs across parts of 5 seasons) and now has young'uns pushing him out. Also hits RH and will be 28 in spring 2011 - rep on defense is good - Dioneer Navarro - TBR One time MFY farmhand seemed to break-out with an AS season in 2008 - but then regressed the next year and even more in 2010. Was left off the post-season roster this year and, instead of traveling with the team in case a catcher went down, he pouted and went home to Venezuela. Switch-hitter who doesn't turn 27 until ST

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 02 2010 08:26 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Assuming our favorites are looking for a backup, Mathis seems the best fit. Navarro pouted during the regular season, too, refusing to be sent down for the Bobby Jones treatment earlier in 2010; if he didn't take kindly to sitting behind Shoppach, he probably won't like sitting for someone younger who's still learning the position. Martin's a little intriguing, though. I have ABSOLUTELY nothing empirical to back me up on this, but he has the feel of a needs-a-change-of-scenery guy, like he just needs a tweak and he'll be better? (Maybe it's the bad-relationship-seeking-17-year-old-girl inside me talking.) Ultimately, I'd like to see him resurrect his career... but I don't think it'll be here.

sharpie Dec 02 2010 08:42 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Carter Hundley Piazza Phillips Lo Duca Mets and Dodgers seem to share starting catchers. Martin will be a Met one day. Thole will be a Dodger.

Edgy DC Dec 02 2010 08:47 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Backups too, with Treviņo and Grote and such.

Vic Sage Dec 02 2010 08:47 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Isn't Olivo available, too? I like him as a pairing with Thole. He hits LHPs with some power, and is a solid glove, i think. And he's neither old nor broken down.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2010 08:48 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Martin weirds me out. Sometimes he looks black, other times, very white. He wears his Mama's initial on his jersey. He's good, and he also sucks.

Edgy DC Dec 02 2010 08:53 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Oooh, I'm so scared. Russell's gonna get his crew and go all Ed Hardy on my ass.

Lefty Specialist Dec 02 2010 09:12 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Martin's intriguing, but I don't think he wants to be Josh Thole's understudy at this point in his career.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 02 2010 09:20 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Vic Sage wrote: Isn't Olivo available, too? I like him as a pairing with Thole. He hits LHPs with some power, and is a solid glove, i think. And he's neither old nor broken down. Had a good year last year, though... with Buck off the piss-poor catcher's market, he's the next biggest catch. IOW... likely too rich for our blood/the role.

attgig Dec 02 2010 09:28 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

I'm not sure if mathis gets non-tendered. Soscia loves him, and plays him regularly over the great hitting napoli. I don't think soscia would be willing to let mathis go because of his defense. People were saying that it's more likely that napoli would get traded because they also have hank conger coming up and could platoon with mathis, and from scouts talking, he can be a great hitting catcher with defense superior to that of napoli.

Frayed Knot Dec 02 2010 09:31 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Vic Sage wrote: Isn't Olivo available, too? I like him as a pairing with Thole. He hits LHPs with some power, and is a solid glove, i think. And he's neither old nor broken down. Yes. Colorado traded him after the season was over to Toronto with an option year still on his contract. The Jays declined the option and offered him arbitration instead. Oliva then declined arbitration making himself a FA (Type B) I didn't mean to imply that those listed above were the only FA catchers around - only that, via the non-tender process, they could be joining the list of backstops on the open market.

Edgy DC Dec 02 2010 09:46 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

With only a fistful of dollars availabe; even fewer after Pelfrey, Dickey and Pagan get their raises; a GM whose main purpose so far has been to temper expectations; and only three-fifths of the rotation in place, I thik whatever resources of any substance the team has left are going to be/have to be focused on staring pitching. The best replacement for Blanco may be Blanco. Behind that you have Nickeas, one or two AAAA journeymen, a few prayers, and that may be the best we can do. And we could do worse, believe me.

MFS62 Dec 02 2010 09:45 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Isn't Barajas a free agent too? If so, Barajas and Blanco could have a footrace, the Mets signing the winner (loser?). They could time it with a sun dial. Actually, forget that. I shudder at the thought of that that Kodak moment. Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2010 09:59 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Angels apparently did offer Mathis a contract.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2010 10:18 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Mets to Maine, Green and Carter: Drop Dead

Edgy DC Dec 02 2010 10:25 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Oh, booo on Carter. Crap, that guy is gonna hit.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 02 2010 10:29 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Now Chris Carter will surely never appear on a baseball card as a Met.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 03 2010 04:40 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ... Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 03 2010 06:08 AM

You'd think Carter is one of the guys with the work ethic and intensity the new guy would want to have around.

seawolf17 Dec 03 2010 05:00 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

I'm really surprised at Carter; thought he was a no-brainer. In a worst case, he might have had some value as a trading chip.

bmfc1 Dec 03 2010 06:34 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

So what did the Mets end up getting for Billy Wagner? The Red Sox got two draft picks, the Braves got an effective Wagner who helped them make the playoffs, while the Mets got one season of Chris Carter, another minor leaguer, and saved some money. They should have eaten the money and kept the draft picks. I'd like to think that Sandy won't do the same thing.

attgig Dec 03 2010 07:02 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

martin was not tendered a contract, so still on the radar. I think some of depodesta's opinion of martin (though i think he was sitll in the minors when he was gm) would weigh heavily on if we pursue him.

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2010 07:54 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Don't quite understand the reasoning behind non-tendering Carter as he was essentially making the ML minimum and was still two years away from being arb-eligible - but it's a pretty strong indication that they don't want him at any price. All non-tenders Trivia note: Neither of the two active Chris Carters are actually named Chris. Our (now departed) guy is William Christopher Carter whereas the Oakland guy is Vernon Christopher Carter. Neither should be confused with former Toronto All-Star Joseph Christopher Carter who shouldn't be mixed up with Virgin Island Met Joseph Christopher.

seawolf17 Dec 03 2010 07:56 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Frayed Knot wrote: Trivia note: Neither of the two active Chris Carters are actually named Chris. Our (now departed) guy is William Christopher Carter whereas the Oakland guy is Vernon Christopher Carter. Neither should be confused with former Toronto All-Star Joseph Christopher Carter who shouldn't be mixed up with Virgin Island Met Joseph Christopher. /head explodes

MFS62 Dec 03 2010 08:05 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Carter became a very reliable pinch hitter by the end of last half of the season. I'm surprised they let him walk. Who is there to replace him? I hope they're not thinking Duda, who needs his AAA at bats this year. Some team will pick him up and he'll come back to bite the Mets in the butt - you just know it. Later

batmagadanleadoff Dec 03 2010 08:08 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

He'll probably end up in the AL 'cause he throws like a girl which is OK if you're a girl but problematic if you're a national leaguer. Pinch hitters who can't field are on the way to extinction (and if they're not, they should be unless they can hit like Ted Williams) in the NL what with the pitch counts and having to use three or four pitchers even in a winning effort. These guys'll hurt a NL team in ways that can't be measured by simply looking at their individual stat-lines.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 03 2010 09:03 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

So... Duda's sticking around on the bench this spring, huh? I will remember 2010 as the Year of Dickey and the Animal. (I'm still hoping against hope that Hank White and his musk stick around.)

metirish Dec 03 2010 09:22 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

I'm surprised on both Green and Carter I suppose....

Edgy DC Dec 03 2010 09:42 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

The corners of the diamond for Oakland were always full of good batsmen who had little to offer defensively.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 03 2010 09:53 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ... Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 03 2010 09:57 AM

Chris Carter was last year's other great Mets feel-good story. But what are we missing, between the lines? He wasn't all that. Or even some of that. I like this non tender because it shows me that the Mets mean business and aren't about to squander things anymore. Hopefully, the days of Miguel Cairo batting second in the midst of a pennant race are over. I'm not talking about Oakland A's who play most of the season.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 03 2010 09:56 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Well, that makes sense. Tweetin' Adam Rubin wrote: I'm told there's a rational explanation for Carter. You have to make 60% of last year's salary, even in AAA. That's expensive if demoted. about 12 hours ago via web

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2010 10:04 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

I have a kind of CAHNfidence the Mets can dig up the next Chris Carter or Sean Green if they try hard enough. BTW, the Green rejection may close the book on Omar's stupidest trade.

DocTee Dec 03 2010 10:05 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Lastings Milledge now available, as is the intriguing Scott Hairston. Surprised Oakland nontendered the recently acquired Edwin Encarnacion. Some pop there.

Edgy DC Dec 03 2010 10:13 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: BTW, the Green rejection may close the book on Omar's stupidest trade. My loyalty will always be to Bell & Ring for Adkins and Johnson, with some side love going to Bannister for Burgos (though Bannister may never be good again).

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 03 2010 10:20 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Bell himself makes that one a doozy, but still... Cumulative B-R WAR for Mets of Putz, Reed, Green: -1.2 Cumulative B-R WAS of Joe Smith, post-trade: 0.5 And that's just two years down the road, leaving out Vargas, Endy and a few other parts. (H/T to Ted Berg/B-Ref)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2010 10:30 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Edgy DC wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: BTW, the Green rejection may close the book on Omar's stupidest trade. My loyalty will always be to Bell & Ring for Adkins and Johnson, with some side love going to Bannister for Burgos (though Bannister may never be good again). Bah. All of them sucked, but none were as weighted with hubris, intentionally showy and aggressively wasteful as Chavez ... and Heilman ... and Vargas ... and Cleto ... and Carp ... and Carrera ... and what the hell, Joe Smith ... for a fat, expensive injured closer we didn't need (Putz), a shitty reserve player who couldn't lend a hand despite the entire team getting injured (Reed) and sidearming project who'd spend half his time injured (Green).

metirish Dec 03 2010 10:35 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

I'l credit bucket for always thinking that trade was terrible , I clearly remember Omar making a big show of convincing Putz to be the famed eight inning guy.......

Edgy DC Dec 03 2010 10:40 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Fair enough, Bucket. The Carter rejection closes the books on the Billy Wagner trade, and the Maine rejection closes the books on the Benson trade (one of Omar's defter ones). I swear, irish, if I have to program in a forum filter to ban the use of the phrase "eighth-inning guy," I will.

seawolf17 Dec 03 2010 12:53 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Edgy DC wrote: I swear, irish, if I have to program in a forum filter to ban the use of the phrase "eighth-inning guy," I will. How will we make fun of Jerry in perpetuity? We'd need to come up with a double-secret Edgy-free code.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 03 2010 01:00 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

DocTee wrote: Lastings Milledge now available, as is the intriguing Scott Hairston. ... who has a little bit of a second-base background and experience at all three OF spots. (Iffy defensively at all three... but not, say, Carter or Duda iffy.)

Frayed Knot Dec 03 2010 02:07 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Well, that makes sense. Tweetin' Adam Rubin wrote: I'm told there's a rational explanation for Carter. You have to make 60% of last year's salary, even in AAA. That's expensive if demoted. about 12 hours ago via web 60% of 400K is expensive?!? And I'm not making the case that Carter deserves to have a place reserved on the '11 roster, only that it seems odd to pre-dump him this early when at worst it seems like he could be the the back-up plan or the throw-in on a trade.

Edgy DC Dec 03 2010 02:20 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Yeah, I've been scratching my head over that also. Yeah, guys on the 40-man roster can get paid even they're in the minors. Nothing new there, but these aren't exceptional cases at all.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 03 2010 02:44 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Word is that the Mets let him go because they wanted to open a space on the 40-man roster. Maybe that means they have somebody in particular that they like better who's going to take that spot. Who knows?

Edgy DC Dec 03 2010 02:53 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Sure, fine, but they had only 38 guys on the roster as it was and after Green's and Maine's non-tenderings, that was down to 36. It's now at 35 with a little bit to go before the Rule 5 draft, so they must be planning some sort of orgy of transactions if that's the case. It just doesn't add up.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2010 02:59 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Orgy, yeahhhhh!!11

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2010 07:13 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Barajas to the Dodgers on a one-year deal.

smg58 Dec 04 2010 08:18 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

I'll wait and see on Carter. If Alderson winds up spending more money to bring in a lefty bench bat to replace what we already had, I won't like it. I also wouldn't be surprised if Carter comes back on a minor league deal. He could have been outrighted when Hessman and Valdes were, but that would have enabled another team to claim him off waivers. Having Hideki Okajima and J. P. Howell on the list of non-tenders should definitely make it more of a buyer's market for lefty bullpen help. I hope the Braves regret cutting Matt Diaz. Fangraphs made an issue of the Nats cutting Joel Peralta. He threw 87 innings out of the pen for KC in 07, his arm fell off, he was dreadful for two years, but last year he was outstanding (2.02 ERA, 0.80 WHIP). You usually don't see guys non-tendered after the kind of year he had.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 04 2010 08:30 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Frayed Knot wrote: Well, that makes sense. I'm told there's a rational explanation for Carter. You have to make 60% of last year's salary, even in AAA. That's expensive if demoted. about 12 hours ago via web 60% of 400K is expensive?!? And I'm not making the case that Carter deserves to have a place reserved on the '11 roster, only that it seems odd to pre-dump him this early when at worst it seems like he could be the the back-up plan or the throw-in on a trade. Forgot the [sarcasm] tags. Unless they really don't like his prospects AND are really jonesing to add a guy to the 40... OR (puts on Joe BenignoTM brand tin hat) it's a simple when-in-doubt-clean-the-Minaya-detritus* move, then it doesn't seem to make sense. *NOTE: Proposed merely for argument's sake.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 04 2010 09:17 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Let's wait and see who the Mets add to the 40-man. Maybe they think they have an under the radar comer. After watching Carter for a full season, I now understand why he couldn't stick with a major league team despite his all-star AAA stats. He presented as a below average hitter for a corner outfielder who doesn't field the position very well and throws worse than World Series Rusty Staub. I honestly can't remember the last time I witnessed a worse outfielder's throwing arm. Anyone who thinks that a National League team can simultaneously carry both this guy and Oliver Perez v.2010 is building a charity ward instead of a pennant contender.

Edgy DC Dec 04 2010 10:18 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

I didn't see a full season out of him. I saw 180 plate appearances and 176 2/3 innings in the outfield. And the point isn't carrying him so much as why he's being cut now when he isn't expensive and there isn't a roster pinch. I don't know I don't think he's a feel-good story. I think he's an asset.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 04 2010 10:48 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Perhaps Carter hits better with more reps. But where's he gonna get his 350-400 PA's from, on the Mets? And if he's getting 350-400 PA's, that means he's playing an awful lot of outfield. He may hit better. But that's an if. I know he won't throw any better. He's a DH, if anything. Or an almost exclusive pinch-hitter, a luxury on an NL team. We'll have to wait for further roster shuffling to fully understand why he was non-tendered.

smg58 Dec 04 2010 01:33 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

I don't know if it's a question of more reps, or whether the reps that he had were enough to get an accurate sense of his worth. That's true whether his OPS was .700 or .900. Bench players can look better than they really are over a small sample size, too (Timo Perez, Mark Johnson, Eric Valent, Ruben Gotay, etc.). Maybe this is as good as Carter gets, or maybe a different set of 180 PAs tells a very different story. The problem with players stuck with the AAAA tag is that they rarely get more chances than Carter got to establish themselves on this level. (Although, on a slightly related front, I do have to give props to Nelson Figueroa for getting tendered a major-league contract by the Astros.)

batmagadanleadoff Dec 05 2010 08:29 AM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

smg58 wrote: Bench players can look better than they really are over a small sample size, too (Timo Perez, Mark Johnson, Eric Valent, Ruben Gotay, etc.) Mike Jacobs.

metirish Dec 06 2010 01:34 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Per Rubin Mets officially re-sign IF Russ Adams...... but that's not the real news, here's that and sign ex-Tigers catcher Dusty Ryan to a minor league deal

A Boy Named Seo Dec 06 2010 01:49 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

metirish wrote: Per Rubin Mets officially re-sign IF Russ Adams...... but that's not the real news, here's that and sign ex-Tigers catcher Dusty Ryan to a minor league deal Suck on that, Nationals.

TransMonk Dec 06 2010 01:56 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

Ken Rosenthal tweets: Keep Jerry Hairston Jr. in mind I truly hope that he's thinking about the old Mets and not the new Mets.

metirish Dec 06 2010 02:04 PM Re: Non-Tender deadline Thurs - catchers available maybe ...

TransMonk wrote: Ken Rosenthal tweets: Keep Jerry Hairston Jr. in mind I truly hope that he's thinking about the old Mets and not the new Mets. He didn't have OMFG LOL after that tweet?