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Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Ashie62 Dec 07 2010 09:50 AM

Or named "Operation Z" by the Japanese royal army. A prayer for all who lost their lives this day and a plea for peace.

themetfairy Dec 07 2010 09:55 AM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Amen!

metirish Dec 07 2010 09:58 AM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Shouldn't this be in the movie thread?

Willets Point Dec 07 2010 10:00 AM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Would you believe that that movie was based on a TRUE STORY!

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 12:45 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

I wonder when December 7 receded from A Day We'll Never Forget to "this day in history".

Benjamin Grimm Dec 07 2010 01:02 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

It's hard to believe it's been 69 years. I remember a time when it was still relatively recent history. I suppose when I first learned of Pearl Harbor it had only been 30-something years ago, as far back as the Iran hostage crisis is now.

seawolf17 Dec 07 2010 01:07 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

I think that "69 years" is probably a big piece of it. The majority of people out weren't alive when it happened. Even my parents weren't alive in 1941. Time moves on.

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 01:12 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I suppose when I first learned of Pearl Harbor it had only been 30-something years ago, as far back as the Iran hostage crisis is now. You've inadvertently reminded me of one of my favorite completely forgotten SNL bits, from the 20th anniversary of JFK's assassination. It was a talk show in which the topic was "Where were you when you learned President Kennedy had been shot?" The first guest (Jim Belushi) said he remembered somebody coming up to him on the quad when he was in college, and the news stunned him. The host said, excuse me, but you seem to be a little too young to have been in college in 1963. The first guest explains this happened in 1972, I just hadn't been paying much attention to current events. The host is aghast at how he could have gone nine years without learning about the Kennedy assassination. When the next guest (Julia Louis-Dreyfus) is asked when she learned President Kennedy had been shot, she says it was just before they came on the set -- the first guest told her backstage; she also didn't really watch the news. And while the host continues to express shock and outrage at their ignorance, the third guest (Tim Kazurinsky) interrupts and asks, "Excuse me, did you say President Kennedy was shot? Oh my god!"

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 01:17 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

seawolf17 wrote: I think that "69 years" is probably a big piece of it. The majority of people out weren't alive when it happened. Even my parents weren't alive in 1941. Time moves on. For today, no doubt. I just wonder when it definitively faded as a touchstone in the national consciousness.

themetfairy Dec 07 2010 01:22 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

G-Fafif wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I suppose when I first learned of Pearl Harbor it had only been 30-something years ago, as far back as the Iran hostage crisis is now. You've inadvertently reminded me of one of my favorite completely forgotten SNL bits, from the 20th anniversary of JFK's assassination. It was a talk show in which the topic was "Where were you when you learned President Kennedy had been shot?" The first guest (Jim Belushi) said he remembered somebody coming up to him on the quad when he was in college, and the news stunned him. The host said, excuse me, but you seem to be a little too young to have been in college in 1963. The first guest explains this happened in 1972, I just hadn't been paying much attention to current events. The host is aghast at how he could have gone nine years without learning about the Kennedy assassination. When the next guest (Julia Louis-Dreyfus) is asked when she learned President Kennedy had been shot, she says it was just before they came on the set -- the first guest told her backstage; she also didn't really watch the news. And while the host continues to express shock and outrage at their ignorance, the third guest (Tim Kazurinsky) interrupts and asks, "Excuse me, did you say President Kennedy was shot? Oh my god!" Didn't someone in that skit say, "OMG - Ted Kennedy was shot?"

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 01:27 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

I'm pretty sure it was "President Kennedy," but it was 27 years ago.

seawolf17 Dec 07 2010 01:30 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

G-Fafif wrote: seawolf17 wrote: I think that "69 years" is probably a big piece of it. The majority of people out weren't alive when it happened. Even my parents weren't alive in 1941. Time moves on. For today, no doubt. I just wonder when it definitively faded as a touchstone in the national consciousness. I think we've just had too many touchstones since then, ones that people actually remember. JFK and 9/11 are two that come immediately to mind, and even JFK was 47 years ago, which is a long frickin' time. Plus, we don't hate Japan any more.

Edgy DC Dec 07 2010 01:40 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Speak for yourself. Damned sushi-eating, sudden-accellerating-hybrid making, Bobby Valentine-loving Japs.

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 01:42 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

seawolf17 wrote: seawolf17 wrote: I think that "69 years" is probably a big piece of it. The majority of people out weren't alive when it happened. Even my parents weren't alive in 1941. Time moves on. For today, no doubt. I just wonder when it definitively faded as a touchstone in the national consciousness. I think we've just had too many touchstones since then, ones that people actually remember. JFK and 9/11 are two that come immediately to mind, and even JFK was 47 years ago, which is a long frickin' time. Plus, we don't hate Japan any more. July 4, 1776 hangs in there, though that was a happy occasion. Meanwhile, Civil War commemorations have become the stuff of obsessives only, and (like Pearl Harbor) the Civil War was a pretty game-changing event as this country's history goes. BTW, we're two weeks short of the 150th anniversary of the first secession from the Union, South Carolina's, December 20, 1860.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 07 2010 01:43 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Don't get this guy started:

themetfairy Dec 07 2010 02:08 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

G-Fafif wrote: I'm pretty sure it was "President Kennedy," but it was 27 years ago. I think someone was asked, "Where were you when you learned that Kennedy was shot?", setting up the Ted Kennedy line. Ask D-Dad; this was a favorite skit of ours as well. Keep in mind that we were living in Boston at the time, so we were inundated with programming commemorating the 20th anniversary of the assassination. By the time the SNL skit came along, we were especially primed for it.

Willets Point Dec 07 2010 02:23 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Funny, to me it seems to be a bigger event now than it was when I was younger. I was always a history geek so I knew the "date that will live in infamy" when it came each year, but it didn't seem that anyone else paid attention. After September 11th it seems that remembrances of military/war events of the past have become more common. The governor of Massachusetts declared today a day of remembrance by lowering flags to half-staff. I don't remember that kind of thing happening in the past.

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 02:25 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Willets Point wrote: Funny, to me it seems to be a bigger event now than it was when I was younger. I was always a history geek so I knew the "date that will live in infamy" when it came each year, but it didn't seem that anyone else paid attention. After September 11th it seems that remembrances of military/war events of the past have become more common. The governor of Massachusetts declared today a day of remembrance by lowering flags to half-staff. I don't remember that kind of thing happening in the past. Good point. I think we have a different context for it today than we might have, say, twenty years ago.

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 02:28 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

I'm pretty sure it was "President Kennedy," but it was 27 years ago. I think someone was asked, "Where were you when you learned that Kennedy was shot?", setting up the Ted Kennedy line. Ask D-Dad; this was a favorite skit of ours as well. Keep in mind that we were living in Boston at the time, so we were inundated with programming commemorating the 20th anniversary of the assassination. By the time the SNL skit came along, we were especially primed for it. Ah, Internet, you have all the answers. John confirmed. Robin in for Julia. The Forum Phil Kubec.....Joe Piscopo Tom LaPorte.....Jim Belushi Carol Halpin.....Robin Duke Third Guest.....Tim Kazurinsky Phil Kubec: Good evening! I'm Phil Kubec, welcome to "The Forum". This week marks the 20th anniversary of the death of John F. Kennedy. I suppose every American remembers where they were and what they were doing when they heard that the President had been shot. Now, this week we have asked three Americans, chosen completely at random, to come on the show and tell us their stories. What is your name, Sir? Tom LaPorte: Uh, Tom LaPorte. Phil Kubec: Okay, Tom. Do you remember where you were when you heard that Kennedy was dead? Tom LaPorte: I sure do, Phil. I'll never forget it. I was a freshman at Boston University at the time, and I remember walking across the Commons to go to class, and I heard a couple of guys talking. They were talking.. Phil Kubec: [ interrupting ] Whoa, whoa, whoa.. hold on a second. How old are you? Tom LaPorte: I'm 29. Phil Kubec: Mmm-hmm. Tom LaPorte: So, anyhow, I was walking across the Commons, right? And I heard these two guys.. Phil Kubec: I..I'm sorry, Tom. I don't mean to interrupt you again. You were 9 years old, and you were a freshman at Boston University? Tom LaPorte: No, no, no, I was 18. Anyhow, I was walking across campus, and I saw these two guys talking.. Phil Kubec: Hold on, Tom. Again, I'm sorry. Let me get this straight - you didn't know that President Kennedy had been shot for nine years? Tom LaPorte: Well, Phil, you know, I was never really big, you know, on current events.. Phil Kubec: We're talking about the President getting shot, here! I mean, the President of the United States! How could you have missed it? Tom LaPorte: Well, you know.. I usually turn to the Sports page first. I like to catch that first.. Phil Kubec: [ exasperated ] The Sports page?! This was one of the biggest stories of the decade! Tom LaPorte: Well, maybe it was a big story in Dallas, but.. Phil Kubec: This was not a local story! I can't believe this! Have you ever heard anything so stupid in your life? Tom LaPorte: [ defensive ] Yeah, well, I'm sure I know a lot more about sports than you do! Phil Kubec: Fine! Fine! [ turning to the next guest ] Uh, what's your name, please? Carol Halpin: Carol Halpin. Tom LaPorte: Tell me, Carol, how did you first hear that President Kennedy had been shot? Phil Kubec: Well, Phil, this is a little embarassing, considering what transpired here.. but, uh.. he told me. [ indicates Tom ] Phil Kubec: What?! Carol Halpin: Backstage. Just before the show. Phil Kubec: You mean, you didn't know about the Kennedy thing until tonight?! Tom LaPorte: [ laughing proudly ] What a dork, Phil! Phil Kubec: Have you people been in a coma, or what? Carol Halpin: Well, I.. I must have been watching another channel.. Phil Kubec: [ outraged ] Another channel?! It was on all the channels! He was the President, for God's sake! Everybody on Earth knew about it the day it happened, except for you two people sitting right here!! Third Guest: Uh, excuse me. Are you people talking about President Kennedy? Phil Kubec: Yes! Third Guest: Oh, what. Did something happen? Carol Halpin: He's.. he's been shot. Third Guest: Oh, no! No! No, he's been shot! [ starts weeping ] Phil Kubec: [ disgusted ] That's it for me. Join us next week on "The Forum", when our guest will be Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon. Tom LaPorte: [ intrigued ] Wait a minute.. you mean, there's Americans.. on the moon? Phil Kubec: [ angry ] Yes! Tom LaPorte: [ excited ] Alright! [ turns to Carol ] Give me five! I can't believe it! On the moon!

Benjamin Grimm Dec 07 2010 02:29 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Fearless prediction: There will be a letter published in the Daily News tomorrow or the next day complaining that whatever the News had on the cover today wasn't as important as Pearl Harbor Day, and lamenting how the anniversary is being ignored.

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 02:31 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Fearless prediction: There will be a letter published in the Daily News tomorrow or the next day complaining that whatever the News had on the cover today wasn't as important as Pearl Harbor Day, and lamenting how the anniversary is being ignored. Followed by a Bill Gallo cartoon, replete with WWII-era Marines on duty in modern-day Afghanistan.

Frayed Knot Dec 07 2010 02:35 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Funny, to me it seems to be a bigger event now than it was when I was younger. I was always a history geek so I knew the "date that will live in infamy" when it came each year, but it didn't seem that anyone else paid attention. After September 11th it seems that remembrances of military/war events of the past have become more common. The governor of Massachusetts declared today a day of remembrance by lowering flags to half-staff. I don't remember that kind of thing happening in the past. I suspect one reason why Pearl Harbor tributes - at least the more public ones - may be more visible today than in earlier decades is because there was a stretch during the 1960s & 1970s when military tributes simply weren't all that fashionable. Returning Vietnam vets certainly weren't accorded the respect that current vets are (even if some of today's appreciation is for pr purposes) and I even remember objections to the then-new stadium in Philly being named 'Veterans Memorial' based on the idea that to do so somehow glorified war and folks were sick of that kind of stuff.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 07 2010 02:42 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 07 2010 02:43 PM

Fearless prediction: There will be a letter published in the Daily News tomorrow or the next day complaining that whatever the News had on the cover today wasn't as important as Pearl Harbor Day, and lamenting how the anniversary is being ignored. Followed by a Bill Gallo cartoon, replete with WWII-era Marines on duty in modern-day Afghanistan. If it's a Gallo cartoon, the WWII era Marines will be up in the clouds, smiling down approvingly at the modern day Marines in Afghanistan

themetfairy Dec 07 2010 02:43 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

I'm pretty sure it was "President Kennedy," but it was 27 years ago. I think someone was asked, "Where were you when you learned that Kennedy was shot?", setting up the Ted Kennedy line. Ask D-Dad; this was a favorite skit of ours as well. Keep in mind that we were living in Boston at the time, so we were inundated with programming commemorating the 20th anniversary of the assassination. By the time the SNL skit came along, we were especially primed for it. Ah, Internet, you have all the answers. John confirmed. Robin in for Julia. The Forum Phil Kubec.....Joe Piscopo Tom LaPorte.....Jim Belushi Carol Halpin.....Robin Duke Third Guest.....Tim Kazurinsky Phil Kubec: Good evening! I'm Phil Kubec, welcome to "The Forum". This week marks the 20th anniversary of the death of John F. Kennedy. I suppose every American remembers where they were and what they were doing when they heard that the President had been shot. Now, this week we have asked three Americans, chosen completely at random, to come on the show and tell us their stories. What is your name, Sir? Tom LaPorte: Uh, Tom LaPorte. Phil Kubec: Okay, Tom. Do you remember where you were when you heard that Kennedy was dead? Tom LaPorte: I sure do, Phil. I'll never forget it. I was a freshman at Boston University at the time, and I remember walking across the Commons to go to class, and I heard a couple of guys talking. They were talking.. Phil Kubec: [ interrupting ] Whoa, whoa, whoa.. hold on a second. How old are you? Tom LaPorte: I'm 29. Phil Kubec: Mmm-hmm. Tom LaPorte: So, anyhow, I was walking across the Commons, right? And I heard these two guys.. Phil Kubec: I..I'm sorry, Tom. I don't mean to interrupt you again. You were 9 years old, and you were a freshman at Boston University? Tom LaPorte: No, no, no, I was 18. Anyhow, I was walking across campus, and I saw these two guys talking.. Phil Kubec: Hold on, Tom. Again, I'm sorry. Let me get this straight - you didn't know that President Kennedy had been shot for nine years? Tom LaPorte: Well, Phil, you know, I was never really big, you know, on current events.. Phil Kubec: We're talking about the President getting shot, here! I mean, the President of the United States! How could you have missed it? Tom LaPorte: Well, you know.. I usually turn to the Sports page first. I like to catch that first.. Phil Kubec: [ exasperated ] The Sports page?! This was one of the biggest stories of the decade! Tom LaPorte: Well, maybe it was a big story in Dallas, but.. Phil Kubec: This was not a local story! I can't believe this! Have you ever heard anything so stupid in your life? Tom LaPorte: [ defensive ] Yeah, well, I'm sure I know a lot more about sports than you do! Phil Kubec: Fine! Fine! [ turning to the next guest ] Uh, what's your name, please? Carol Halpin: Carol Halpin. Tom LaPorte: Tell me, Carol, how did you first hear that President Kennedy had been shot? Phil Kubec: Well, Phil, this is a little embarassing, considering what transpired here.. but, uh.. he told me. [ indicates Tom ] Phil Kubec: What?! Carol Halpin: Backstage. Just before the show. Phil Kubec: You mean, you didn't know about the Kennedy thing until tonight?! Tom LaPorte: [ laughing proudly ] What a dork, Phil! Phil Kubec: Have you people been in a coma, or what? Carol Halpin: Well, I.. I must have been watching another channel.. Phil Kubec: [ outraged ] Another channel?! It was on all the channels! He was the President, for God's sake! Everybody on Earth knew about it the day it happened, except for you two people sitting right here!! Third Guest: Uh, excuse me. Are you people talking about President Kennedy? Phil Kubec: Yes! Third Guest: Oh, what. Did something happen? Carol Halpin: He's.. he's been shot. Third Guest: Oh, no! No! No, he's been shot! [ starts weeping ] Phil Kubec: [ disgusted ] That's it for me. Join us next week on "The Forum", when our guest will be Neil Armstrong, the first man on the moon. Tom LaPorte: [ intrigued ] Wait a minute.. you mean, there's Americans.. on the moon? Phil Kubec: [ angry ] Yes! Tom LaPorte: [ excited ] Alright! [ turns to Carol ] Give me five! I can't believe it! On the moon! Good work G-Fafif. I must have been thinking of a different skit. Because I definitely remember the Ted Kennedy line. I just conflated it with this one.

G-Fafif Dec 07 2010 02:54 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

From Rich Westcott's history of The Vet: As construction got underway, a new controversy surfaced. What would the stadium be called? Naming the new facility became perhaps the most acrimonious battle of all the stadium's fights. Nearly everybody had an idea. Independence Stadium, Philadium, William Penn Stadium, Eisenhower Stadium, and Apollo Stadium were among the most popular suggestions. So was Philadelphia Stadium, a name endorsed by some major local businesses. Anti-war activists proposed names such as Peace Park, Love Park, and Dream Park. And in a poll conducted the Evening Bulletin, which attracted some 500 suggestions from 1,650 readers, all of the above names were supported, as were The Pill, Boo-Bird Park, Billy's Penn, Philly's Folly, Quaker Bowl, Raspberry Park, Keystone Stadium, Ye Old Park, Pretzel Stadium, Shocker Field, Bell-Mack Park, and The Playpenn. The people making the loudest noise about a name were war vetereans, especially those affiliated with the American Legion. They wanted the park to be called War Veterans Memorial Stadium as a tribute to the millions of Americans who had served in the military during wars. Except for their proponents, that name was about as popular as the idea of a ballpark beneath the Delaware River. Naturally, anti-war activists, then embroiled in the social polarization produced by the war in Vietnam, opposed the name. Business leaders did, too, as did most Republican members of the City Council. Republican councilman Longstreth proclaimed: "If we end up with a Veterans Stadium, we will be the laughingstock of the United States." "It (the name) will do nothing to improve the image of the city," said Councilman John B. Kelly Jr., a Democrat who called it "dull, sedate, and aged. Too many people think of Philadelphia as a cemetery with lights. The people who will pay for the stadium for the next 30 years don't want that name. It's an unnecessary flashpoint in volatile times." Twice in 1969, City Council members introduced bills to name the stadium. One bill proposed the name War Veterans Memorial Stadium. City Council Republicans endorsed Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower Stadium. Both times, the names were referred to committee. Eventually the city council succumbed to "pressure" from veterans groups and went with Philadelphia Veterans Stadium, even though there were vets who brought signs to the vote with slogans such as "Vets Need Beds in Hospitals, Not Seats in a Stadium." The city controller suggested selling the naming rights, declaring it could yield $30 million in revenue. He was, Westcott wrote, "virtually laughed off the floor." And once the Vet opened, Bowie Kuhn kvelled, "It certainly ranks with the finest new stadiums."

Fman99 Dec 07 2010 06:15 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

Edgy DC wrote: Speak for yourself. Damned sushi-eating, sudden-accellerating-hybrid making, Bobby Valentine-loving Japs. [Mr. Burns is reminiscing about his grandfather's old Atom Smashing Plant] Burns' Grandfather: Come on, men! Smash those atoms! You there, turn out your pockets. [Two goons seize a waifish worker and turn out his pockets] Burns' Grandfather: Aha - atoms! One, two, three, four... SIX of them! Take him away! Waif: You can't treat the working man this way! One of these days we'll form a union, and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and become corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive! Burns' Grandfather: The Japanese? Those sandal-wearing goldfish tenders? Ha ha! Bosh! Flimshaw! ... Mr. Burns: Oh, if only we'd listened to that young man, instead of walling him up in the abandoned coke oven.

MFS62 Dec 07 2010 10:10 PM Re: Pearl Harbor 12/7/1941

G-Fafif wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I suppose when I first learned of Pearl Harbor it had only been 30-something years ago, as far back as the Iran hostage crisis is now. You've inadvertently reminded me of one of my favorite completely forgotten SNL bits, from the 20th anniversary of JFK's assassination. It was a talk show in which the topic was "Where were you when you learned President Kennedy had been shot?" The first guest (Jim Belushi) said he remembered somebody coming up to him on the quad when he was in college, and the news stunned him. I was cutting a class to play touch football on the Quad when I heard that JFK had been shot. The news stunned all of us. Ths thread has wandered from Pearl Harbor to JFK to Afghanistan. But if there hadn't been a thread about remembering this day, I would have started one. Thanks, Ashie. Later