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tell me about your feeeeeeelings

i'm elated! did i mention that i'm a phillies phan?

0 votes

i'm elated! this will blow up in their faces fast. also, i'm thrilled the yankees got screwed.

4 votes

i'm happy, but wary. i didn't want him, and i'm hoping i'm right.

3 votes

meh. i don't really follow baseball. i'm only here for the scrabble threads.

0 votes

i'm sad, but hopeful. it may take a few years, but he'll show his age eventually...

12 votes

i'm borderline suicidal. the phillies are a monster, and will be for a while.

5 votes

i'm borderline suicidal. there's no way this contract works out. oh, did i mention that i'm a phillies phan?

0 votes

metsmarathon Dec 14 2010 07:31 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2010 07:36 AM

the phillies just signed cliff lee. he's old for a pitcher. he's also a year younger than me. so that makes me sad. but we're not talking about those kind of feelings. i want to know your feelings about this signing. as i said, cliff lee is old. roy oswalt is older. older than me, even. by a whole month. and roy halladay? he's friggin ancient, with some 4 months on me. and lee and halladay are signed for quite a while there, for quite a bit of money. roy makes $20 mil in each of the next three seasons, and cliff averages $24 mil for the next five. add in ryan howard, who is grossly overpaid, and you've got a potential for a few albatrosses just down the turnpike. granted, they've now got the best paper rotation in the game. and their offense, while not nearly what it used to be, is still fairly threatening. so they're most likely the current favorites for hte world series. and that can't make you feel great. but enough of my ramblings. what do you think?

metsmarathon Dec 14 2010 07:36 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

i'm happy, but wary. i'm glad the mets aren't the team that threw all this money at another pitcher. i had been worried the rangers would get him and cripple their franchise for another ten years. i was really hoping he'd go to the yankees, and be there for 8 years. but i can live with the phillies for 5 years. if it were a longer deal, it'd have an even greater chance of being an albatross for even longer, but by the time the deal is through, today will not be looked upon as a happy day in the city of brotherly love. i hope...

Valadius Dec 14 2010 07:37 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

All of their stars are on the wrong side of 30. They're gonna get old, fast. And one of them will likely get caught taking steroids up the butt.

metirish Dec 14 2010 07:39 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

My overriding feelings are of elation that the MFY's didn't get him and throwing the most money at a player for once didn't work. Their fans were so cocksure that Lee would be coming, so as much as anything this is a fuck you to them. I am also cognizant that the NL East just got that much tougher but I feel that we have the right men in place to build our team in to real contenders. I am confident that Sandy Alderson and his group are not quaking in their boots at this and for that I am happy.

themetfairy Dec 14 2010 07:41 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

We're screwed. Severely. And since I live in the vortex, with Phillies phans prevalent, my life is going to be horrible.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2010 07:51 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

I think at some point, teams reach a limit of how good or how shitty they can be. The Phils theoretically are pushing the top end of that limit but it's not like they're going to go out and win 130 games. Their O could be a challenge some nights, and asking any 3 post-30 pitchers to be healthy all year is a risk, they had better get the bullpen right, etc etc etc And if they fall short with this group, then maybe the whole thing collapses. Oh, but AWESOME job keeping Lee away from the MFYs.

seawolf17 Dec 14 2010 07:52 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

The best case scenario for a Lee signing, in order of preference, was this: Red Sox (to screw the Yankees) Any other AL team (to keep him out of the NL and screw the Yankees) Yankees (because their fans are insufferable gits) Mets (a lot of money, but he would undoubtedly have helped) Any NL Central/West team (to keep him out of the division) Marlins (because it would have eaten their whole payroll, which only would have forced them to trade him to one of the above teams in a few years) Nationals (because they suck) Braves (because they're otherwise not that scary) Phillies (fuckin' hell) It's definitely a worst-case scenario for us, at least for the short term. We can hope that he'll get old and/or hurt, but that's all we've got. And if he does get old/hurt, we have to hope they don't Yankee Up and just sign more guys who will kick our asses. I'm going "sad, but hopeful."

batmagadanleadoff Dec 14 2010 07:54 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

For going-forward comparisons, Cliff Lee's only half a year older than Johan Santana, and isn't coming off three straight seasons of surgery.

Ceetar Dec 14 2010 07:57 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

metsmarathon wrote: granted, they've now got the best paper rotation in the game. and their offense, while not nearly what it used to be, is still fairly threatening. I disagree. I actually think the Mets have a better offense. Since we're playing the game on paper right now anyway, Beltran's going to have a good year, as is Bay. Davis and Thole both take steps forward. None of these things are unreasonable either. On the Phillies side, Rollins was never that good, had a career year and two bad ones since. I expect a similiar '09-'10 from him. Utley may be injury prone and is an aging second baseman. Their outfield is iffy. Victorino has good numbers for a CFer, but it's not exactly scary numbers, Ibanez is old and breaking down ,and they literally don't have a RF. They were considering Frenchy there! It's unlikely Brown comes up and is Jason Heyward. It makes things more difficult for 2011, but who knows what can happen? one or two key injuries has proven to send the Phillies into slumps in the past, their offense, even when it was better, disappeared for weeks. They routinely start slow. And when midseason comes and the mets are wheeling and dealing and getting Santana back and the Phillies are standing pat and adding guys like Alex Cora to fill in for Rollins who is hurt?

metirish Dec 14 2010 08:00 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

batmagadanleadoff wrote: For going-forward comparisons, Cliff Lee's only half a year older than Johan Santana, and isn't coming off three straight seasons of surgery. Batmag, always available to brighten your day :)

batmagadanleadoff Dec 14 2010 08:01 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

batmagadanleadoff wrote: For going-forward comparisons, Cliff Lee's only half a year older than Johan Santana, and isn't coming off three straight seasons of surgery. If you had to decide today, who would you rather have on your team for 2011 ... Lee or Santana? How about for the next two seasons? Lee or Santana?

batmagadanleadoff Dec 14 2010 08:03 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

metirish wrote: For going-forward comparisons, Cliff Lee's only half a year older than Johan Santana, and isn't coming off three straight seasons of surgery. Batmag, always available to brighten your day :) Just being honest. Bring back Johnny Olerud and I'll create for you, another Sun.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2010 08:06 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

batmagadanleadoff wrote: For going-forward comparisons, Cliff Lee's only half a year older than Johan Santana, and isn't coming off three straight seasons of surgery. That's encouraging when you think of all the World Series' championships Johan Santana brought to the Mets.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2010 08:17 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

It's encouraging to think that Yankee fans might have blown it for their team.

Valadius Dec 14 2010 08:44 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Edgy DC wrote: It's encouraging to think that Yankee fans might have blown it for their team. Yes, I really do hope some of the columnists dwell on that and cause some introspection. Oh, who am I kidding? This will fly over their heads.

batmagadanleadoff Dec 14 2010 08:46 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

If that's the main reason why Lee spurned the Yankees offer and left almost $20M on the table, then the Lees are idiots.

metsmarathon Dec 14 2010 08:48 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

no, they'll be self-congratulatory for chasing away another weak soul who would've been incapable of withstanding the pressure and the bright lights and the blistering stupidity of the big city.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2010 08:54 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

And perhaps double down on the abuse.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2010 08:56 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

batmagadanleadoff wrote: If that's the main reason why Lee spurned the Yankees offer and left almost $20M on the table, then the Lees are idiots. What would be a good reason?

seawolf17 Dec 14 2010 08:59 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

metsmarathon wrote: no, they'll be self-congratulatory for chasing away another weak soul who would've been incapable of withstanding the pressure and the bright lights and the blistering stupidity of the big city. True, because Philadelphia fans are diehards who stay with you through thick and thin, and always take the high road. They're known for their polite golf claps and encouraging "tally ho, you'll get him next time!" cheers when one of the hometown heroes strikes out.

Lefty Specialist Dec 14 2010 09:03 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Mrs. Lee better not make any further trips to Yankee Stadium, because they'll do unspeakable things.

metsmarathon Dec 14 2010 09:06 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

batmagadanleadoff wrote: If that's the main reason why Lee spurned the Yankees offer and left almost $20M on the table, then the Lees are idiots. depending on how the two contracts were structured, that 20 mil way down the road is not worth nearly as much as it sounds. mind you, i'm not at all good at calculating then-year dollars vs current-year dollars, but accounting for inflation, he didn't leave all that much value out there. besides, it's not like you or i leaving 20 mil on the table. he's opted for 15% lower total dollars. it's less than 10% in terms of value, and might be less than 5%. you couldn't imagine choosing one job with what you perceived to be a better personal situation over another that offered a 5%, or even 10%, higher salary?

bmfc1 Dec 14 2010 09:14 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Any joy that I have that the MFYs didn't get him is secondary to the fact that Lee's in the Mets division which means that they'll face him about six times this season. Yes, it's too much and too long but the MFPs should be a great team in '11 and '12. Sandy has a Plan, and I'm optimistic about '12 and beyond, but this season's gonna suck. Hopefully the MFPs age will catch up to them soon (Victorino is 30, Polanco 35, Utley 31, Howard 31, Ibanez 38).

batmagadanleadoff Dec 14 2010 09:15 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

metsmarathon wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: If that's the main reason why Lee spurned the Yankees offer and left almost $20M on the table, then the Lees are idiots. besides, it's not like you or i leaving 20 mil on the table. It's a lot of money, no matter who's getting it. A person can always find ways to spend it. More money to take care of relatives. Maybe he'll want to buy a minor league team in 20 years. Or a fancy vacation home. And a fancy vacation home for the kids. Or he takes a big hit on a future investment and the extra millions that he rejected, perhaps solely to exact revenge for an insult, would've given him an extra hedge, or layer of security.

Vic Sage Dec 14 2010 09:21 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

bmfc1 wrote: Any joy that I have that the MFYs didn't get him is secondary to the fact that Lee's in the Mets division which means that they'll face him about six times this season. Yes, it's too much and too long but the MFPs should be a great team in '11 and '12. Sandy has a Plan, and I'm optimistic about '12 and beyond, but this season's gonna suck. Hopefully the MFPs age will catch up to them soon (Victorino is 30, Polanco 35, Utley 31, Howard 31, Ibanez 38). this, exactly.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 14 2010 09:47 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 14 2010 09:57 AM

Victorino's not only 30, but coming back down to earth. Utley's had health problems-- non-trauma-related, but chronic-y stuff-- for each of the last three years. I wouldn't trade Reyes' legs/trunk for Rollins' legs/trunk if you threw in Dominic Brown. Ibanez is old, getting older, and not nearly as good-- not now, but not as good, period-- as he was for the first half of 2009. Polanco and Howard are pains, but pains one can live with... especially at Howard's price. In short, there's a reason they had to load up on pitching last fall-- their offense is video-game-good but very creaky, and getting creakier. They're on the hook for a little over 168 million for next year, with 6-7 roster spots yet to be filled. That number's 92 million through 2012... before adding Cliff Lee and an arb increase for Cole Hamels... before resigning/replacing SS/LF (assuming Domonic Brown holds/performs in the RF starting role for cheap)... and that's a total of eight players. Through 2013? They're obligated to pay out 80 million... to four players. (This is a team, mind you, that sells buttloads of tickets and merch... but doesn't have its own cable network, and won't have one any time soon.) Plus, having driven into work late today, I caught a little bit of call-in MFY fan angst. Bracing and delicious, let me tell you... I may just check out Francesa online this afternoon, that's how delicious. I'm feeling a mitigated, wary sort of happy, but happy.

bmfc1 Dec 14 2010 09:55 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Francesa's off today.

Ceetar Dec 14 2010 09:57 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

bmfc1 wrote: Francesa's off today. but you do get Beltran on with Evan and Joe (who pretty much defines #blamebeltran) so that can be interesting.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 14 2010 09:58 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Doesn't feed my hate-craving, though, consarnit.

Fman99 Dec 14 2010 10:14 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Mets fans, taking it in the pooper. And not in the good way.

TheOldMole Dec 14 2010 11:47 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

I would have gone Sad but hopeful, but I couldn't pass up Elated that the MFYs got screwed.

Frayed Knot Dec 14 2010 01:04 PM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

I guess the 'sad but hopeful' choice applies best. Look, there's no question that this is good for the Phils at least in the short term. They got the best FA pitcher on the market who's very good with a short and recent track record of being great and not only didn't have to go to a guaranteed 7th year to get him but stopped a wee bit short of a 6th. Their 4-man rotation - assuming everyone stays healthy - is a killer which will help them overcome whatever offensive outages they'll have (the way they did last year) as those bats and defense grow older and less reliable. Maybe it starts to bite them by year 3 or later as both he ages and they need to start replacing all those aging and expensive parts elsewhere (although I still think Howard at 1B is the bigger anchor they need to worry about) but they're a 'now' team riding a big revenue stream so certainly looks like the right move at the right time. Besides, just think about how much fun it will be when you wind up beating the overwhelming pre-season fave - As far as the Yanx, the best part isn't merely the fact that they didn't get him - at those prices and length the winner of these things isn't always the one who gets him - as it is the fact that their fans and their press took the signing for granted as part of the natural order of the universe. That's twice now that they thought he was theirs (remember the trading deadline last July) only to be left grasping at air wondering why cats and dogs are now living together. Of course they'll now do something else - particularly with all that money burning a hole in their pockets. But, in the meantime, it's Sabathia, Hughes, Burnett and ... ??

Ceetar Dec 14 2010 01:12 PM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Frayed Knot wrote: Of course they'll now do something else - particularly with all that money burning a hole in their pockets. But, in the meantime, it's Sabathia, Hughes, Burnett and ... ?? Why hasn't Mike Francessa killed Cashman for doing nothing at the Winter Meetings/offseason yet? The Mets actually are one further along. They've got CC and Hughes + burnett, we've got Dickey, Pelfrey, Niese + ollie.

seawolf17 Dec 14 2010 01:17 PM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Ceetar wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Of course they'll now do something else - particularly with all that money burning a hole in their pockets. But, in the meantime, it's Sabathia, Hughes, Burnett and ... ?? Why hasn't Mike Francessa killed Cashman for doing nothing at the Winter Meetings/offseason yet? The Mets actually are one further along. They've got CC and Hughes + burnett, we've got Dickey, Pelfrey, Niese + ollie. Because Brian Cashman is "fungible."

Vince Coleman Firecracker Dec 14 2010 01:28 PM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

I kinda sorta snapped at my Yankee fan sister on the Facebooks today after she did the woe is us thing. This deal will probably be bad news for the Phils in four years, maybe crippling in year five, but maybe not. Five years is a long way away. And in the meanwhile they will probably win somewhere north of 95 games a season. Their offense ain't great, but it won't need to be. Catastrophic career-ending injuries aside (which are possible, natch, but not exactly probable), this team might have wrapped up the division until 2014. The move is that good, I think. I has a sad. Actually, I'm more angry to find out the Phils can spend 160 million dollars. That's disconcerting news. What the hell?

Ashie62 Dec 14 2010 01:34 PM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Elated.. Not too many big dollar pitcher contracts work out.

Vic Sage Dec 14 2010 01:35 PM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Actually, I'm more angry to find out the Phils can spend 160 million dollars. That's disconcerting news. What the hell? you failed to finish your thought: "I'm more angry to find out the Phils can spend 160 million dollars... and the Mets can't or won't."

Ashie62 Dec 14 2010 01:48 PM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Vic Sage wrote: Actually, I'm more angry to find out the Phils can spend 160 million dollars. That's disconcerting news. What the hell? you failed to finish your thought: "I'm more angry to find out the Phils can spend 160 million dollars... and the Mets can't or won't." The Mets are a small market team for the time being.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 14 2010 02:03 PM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Who's suicidal? That's what I want to know. (And not necessarily in a help-y way. More like, "morbid curiosity/tell me about your pain.")

Fman99 Dec 15 2010 04:03 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Who's suicidal? That's what I want to know. (And not necessarily in a help-y way. More like, "morbid curiosity/tell me about your pain.") That was the one I chose. God damn, their first four guys are all better than the flotsam we're trotting out there most days. The whole thing stinks worse than Suzie Waldman's giant granny panties.

MFS62 Dec 15 2010 07:26 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Fman99 wrote: The whole thing stinks worse than Suzie Waldman's giant granny panties. Thank you for that Hallmark moment. Later

metirish Dec 15 2010 07:47 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Here's a view from Greg that I like http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/

MFS62 Dec 15 2010 08:14 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

metirish wrote: Here's a view from Greg that I like http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/ I like that view, too. But there is something else that I'm thinking about. If the team is going to build a contender from within the organization, I notice that the next wave of minor league position players who may fight their way into the Mets lineup over the next year or two are mostly left handed hitters. They include Duda, Nieuwenhuis, Ratliff (and finally, please, a healthy Martinez) in the outfield and Havens in the infield. The Philly addition of Lee won't make their entry into the NL East any easier. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 15 2010 09:08 AM Re: tell me about your feeeeeeelings

Fman99 wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Who's suicidal? That's what I want to know. (And not necessarily in a help-y way. More like, "morbid curiosity/tell me about your pain.") That was the one I chose. God damn, their first four guys are all better than the flotsam we're trotting out there most days. The whole thing stinks worse than Suzie Waldman's giant granny panties. It's not that bad, really. Oswalt's either gone next year, or signed to a budget-breaking deal. They will be very, very good next year. And that's it, really... after that, it's all a matter of fast they leak. Leak they will. And a smelly, chopped-meat-stinking leak it'll be.