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Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Edgy DC Dec 26 2010 08:10 PM

“CLOSED FOR BUSINESS—WILL REOPEN APRIL 2012? That is the sign I see posted outside the main entrance to Citi Field, home of the Mets in the borough of Queens in the city of New York. It’s not really there, but in the interest of full disclosure and truth in advertising, it should be. From everything the Mets have said and not done the past two months, they do not appear to be ready to conduct their baseball business next season. They are selling season tickets, but they probably haven’t notified prospective buyers about caveat emptor. That’s Latin for “we don’t plan to be very good and you buy tickets at your own risk.” Murray Chass What the hell?

metsguyinmichigan Dec 27 2010 04:21 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Edgy DC wrote: “CLOSED FOR BUSINESS—WILL REOPEN APRIL 2012? That is the sign I see posted outside the main entrance to Citi Field, home of the Mets in the borough of Queens in the city of New York. It’s not really there, but in the interest of full disclosure and truth in advertising, it should be. From everything the Mets have said and not done the past two months, they do not appear to be ready to conduct their baseball business next season. They are selling season tickets, but they probably haven’t notified prospective buyers about caveat emptor. That’s Latin for “we don’t plan to be very good and you buy tickets at your own risk.” Murray Chass What the hell? The Herald de Paris?

Ashie62 Dec 27 2010 06:28 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

He must be snowed in and grumpy, or tanked.

Ceetar Dec 27 2010 07:03 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Ashie62 wrote: He must be snowed in and grumpy, or tanked. He's always at least two out of three. I'm surprised he didn't manage to fit an accusation about steroids in there.

Edgy DC Dec 27 2010 08:11 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

That's what makes the weak apology/excuse to Verducci so vexing. He (like Andy Pettitte) only sinned the exact number of times he got caught; and he coudn't confirm what he was told with other sources because he was on vacation without access to contacts. Whoop-de-doo. It's good that during this recession that folks can still head off to places beyond the reaches of devices that go beep-beep-beep. But it's the electronic age, if you're connected enough to file a story, you're connected enough to confirm it.

Edgy DC Dec 27 2010 08:21 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

He posted the full thingie at his site: http://www.murraychass.com/?p=2738

Frayed Knot Dec 27 2010 08:30 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Edgy DC wrote: He posted the full thingie at his site Isn't that what got Brett Farve into all that hot water?

metsguyinmichigan Dec 27 2010 09:09 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

"Fred Wilpon has never liked spending the kind of money he has had to spend to compete with the Yankees in New York. When Nelson Doubleday was Wilpon’s partner in the Mets’ ownership, it was Doubleday who wanted to spend money on good players (see Mike Piazza)." Unless you count Carlos Beltran, Johan Santana, Jason Bay, Francisco Rodriguez........

Edgy DC Dec 27 2010 09:16 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Yeah, but he didn't like doing it. Doubleday reveled in it. He was crazy about it --- writing checks left and right with a big goofy grin on his face. God, those were the days.

smg58 Dec 27 2010 11:13 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Oh well, the next time Chass says something I agree with will be the first. The Mets have had either the second highest payroll in the league, or something close to it, for a while. They maxed out their budget last year. I can accept that. The problem was not any sort of reluctance to spend money, but that the money did not produce a contender. And they're not freeing up anywhere near enough money this year to simply buy their way back into contention. A real Mets fan can accept that, and still cheer for the team that's on the field, hope some young guys surprise us, or hope that the team provides us with a few great memorable moments, whether any come in October or not. If that's so hard for you to handle, there's a team across the Triboro that caters to people with a greater sense of entitlement than loyalty. Go bother them.

Edgy DC Dec 27 2010 11:24 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

I don't want to suggest that Murray Chass hasn't produced anything of value. His story a few years ago about Jewish and non-beilieving umpires' experiences when confronted with locker-room chapel services was a real service to baseball and the persons involved. It's just that his retirement in the face of new movements in baseball reporting that intimidate him has led him into a bitter corner that appears to have seriously weakened his perspective. And that's unfortunate for him, any readers he might have left, and clearly his subjects.

MFS62 Dec 27 2010 01:45 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Speaking of spending money: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... er-fbifile I wonder if Chass will write about that. Later

G-Fafif Dec 27 2010 03:30 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Edgy DC wrote: I don't want to suggest that Murray Chass hasn't produced anything of value. As you intimate, there's generally a helping of good and bad in everybody's portfolio, something that's rarely appreciated in these "pick a side" days. Chass was the first baseball writer to tackle the business side of the game, for example. He had his tics and quirks along the way (like his cheap shot hatred of Bobby Valentine), but he used to bring (and is still capable of bringing) intriguing perspectives to the table. But of late, he really bites it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Dec 27 2010 07:53 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

G-Fafif wrote: But of late, he really bites it. And "of late" is over a decade long at this point.

Number 6 Dec 27 2010 10:14 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

smg58 wrote: The Mets have had either the second highest payroll in the league, or something close to it, for a while. They maxed out their budget last year. I can accept that. The problem was not any sort of reluctance to spend money, but that the money did not produce a contender. And they're not freeing up anywhere near enough money this year to simply buy their way back into contention. A real Mets fan can accept that, and still cheer for the team that's on the field, hope some young guys surprise us, or hope that the team provides us with a few great memorable moments, whether any come in October or not. If that's so hard for you to handle, there's a team across the Triboro that caters to people with a greater sense of entitlement than loyalty. Go bother them. This is really well-said. Register and post it. Or use his new-fangly email: comments@murraychass.com Not that he'll listen or understand, but good sense seems to really rile him up.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 25 2011 02:37 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 25 2011 02:44 PM

Oh, great-grandpa googly moogly: Attention, Mike Piazza fans and other cynics: A report in The New York Times on Saturday about the Barry Bonds perjury case said that prosecutors said that Bonds’ former girlfriend, Kimberly Bell, “would testify to seeing physical changes in Bonds that are indicative of steroid use, including acne on his back and shoulders…” If acne is good enough for Federal prosecutors, it’s good enough for me no matter how much Piazza and his supporters scream and whine at my mention of Piazza and the acne that covered his back until it miraculously disappeared when baseball began testing for steroids in 2003 and 2004. No one has accused Piazza of perjury, but he better be careful with what he says if he ever has to testify under oath. HOLY SHIT, YOU BITCHY OLD MARY! You're calling the guy a steroid user because of the team for which he worked, and because he-- a guy who wears catchers' gear for three hours a night-- has back acne, and we're the cyni-- okay, I'm calm. I wonder if he leans back, claps his hands, and barks, "HA!" when he finishes articlets like the above. I think he probably does.

metirish Jan 25 2011 02:40 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Attention, Murray Chass and other assholes.

Edgy DC Jan 25 2011 02:47 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

I think poor Murray Chass has acne on his soul.

Edgy DC Jan 25 2011 02:48 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Flashback!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 25 2011 02:53 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Edgy DC wrote: I think poor Murray Chass has acne on his soul. I'm not sure if regular doses of dinosaur jesus would help alleviate the condition, but I'd still like to see 'em.

Edgy DC Jan 25 2011 02:57 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

This dinosaur jesus? dinosaur jesus wrote: I never saw the boils on Mickey Cochrane's butt cheeks, or the blackheads on Ernie Lombardi's nose. But I saw John Stearns go 3 for 3 and steal two bases with a zit on the inside of his thigh that would have crippled an ordinary man. I saw a whitehead on Jerry Grote's forehead that got so inflamed when he squeezed it, Tug McGraw asked him if he was a Hindu, and couldn't stop laughing even when Jerry punched him out. And I saw Ron Hodges catch a doubleheader with a case of shingles you could cover a house with. But these old eyes have never seen anything like the opposite field power and back acne that Mike Piazza brought to the table every night. The drugstore in Cooperstown had better stock up on Clearasil, because Mike is moving in to stay. The only thing that could make that shot more impressive would be if he called it.

metirish Jan 25 2011 03:00 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Today is a flashback treat.

dinosaur jesus Jan 25 2011 03:13 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Don't even get me started on Mackey Sasser's erysipelas.

G-Fafif Jan 26 2011 12:25 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Howard Megdal checks in with dermatologists regarding back acne, and their diagnosis is Murray Chass is an ass.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 26 2011 12:30 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

G-Fafif wrote: Howard Megdal checks in with dermatologists regarding back acne, and their diagnosis is Murray Chass is an ass. Hilarious.

Edgy DC Jan 26 2011 12:35 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

That's some good blog fighting.

metirish Jan 26 2011 01:03 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Howard Megdal checks in with dermatologists regarding back acne, and their diagnosis is Murray Chass is an ass. Hilarious. Good stuff.......kudos to Megdal.

metsguyinmichigan Jan 26 2011 01:46 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

metirish wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Howard Megdal checks in with dermatologists regarding back acne, and their diagnosis is Murray Chass is an ass. Hilarious. Good stuff.......kudos to Megdal. Very good stuff. In fact, it points out just how crappy sports writing has become. Chass tosses out stuff like that, and -- until now -- doesn't get challenged on it. Many sports writers sit back and pontificate without actually doing any legwork to investigate what they're saying. It's, at best, lazy. And at worst it is reckless. Before you injure someone's reputation -- and accusing a baseball player of using steroids is exactly that -- you need to have done your homework. (Steps off soap box.)

MFS62 Jan 28 2011 08:06 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Its funny that nobody was writing about the steroids/ acne connection when it was tough NOT to notice that Paul O'Neill's entire body looked like a topographical map of a lunar landing site. Later

metirish Feb 25 2011 07:27 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Still bitter, this about Bobby V http://www.murraychass.com/?p=3016

metirish Mar 24 2011 03:08 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2011 04:02 PM

Joe Posnanski on Twitter When I think N.Y. based blogger Murray Chass has hit rock bottom, he manages to sink lower. Sad. He was once a fine reporter. Offending article I guess http://www.murraychass.com/?p=3118 Chass quotes people with " no direct knowledge of the situation " a few times.

metirish Mar 24 2011 04:01 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Read this stunning article from Chass on SABR. Chass has found a book that backs up his years of thinking that SABR is utter bollox. http://www.murraychass.com/?p=3106

Number 6 Mar 24 2011 04:04 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Can think of a bunch of words for Chass, but the two that most sum him up are "willful" and "ignorance." At this point he's a clown, more amusing than anything.

Edgy DC Mar 24 2011 05:33 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

It's sad rather than amusing to me. To think a talented guy is going to die that bitter and that disgraced. One blog, by Rob Neyer, criticizes the book based not on the book itself but on a news release about the book. When Neyer was at ESPN.com, he seemed to be building a respectable reputation, but he has moved to a new Web site, SBNation.com, and I guess that site’s standards are lower than ESPN’s because I doubt that his blog on the news release would have been posted on the ESPN Web site. You used to write for The New York Fucking Times and now you write for www.murraychass.com, Snarky McSnotnose.

Edgy DC Mar 24 2011 07:56 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

One blog, by Rob Neyer, criticizes the book based not on the book itself but on a news release about the book. To any fair reading, it's clear that Neyer wrote about the press release based on the press release, and stayed away from drawing broad conclusions until he actually reads the book.

Frayed Knot Mar 24 2011 08:16 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Chass: "Moneyball teams didn’t consider defense a priority". Umm, yes they do bitter boy. In fact there's an entire chapter on making Scott Hattieberg into a legit fielding 1Bman ("a pickin' machine") because they know his bat isn't going to come close to replacing the offense generated by the departing Giambi so they hope to make up the difference in runs saved. Or you might also have caught the section where Beane and his cohorts calculated how to replace the defense they stood to lose when the [then] good glove of Johnny Damon was leaving town. You see Murray, instead of simply spouting empty platitudes like "defense wins championships" or "his glove saves a hundred runs a year" with nothing to back it up, the 'Moneyball crowd likes to consider how much to value defense when constructing a roster. That's not the same as ignoring it.

The Second Spitter Mar 24 2011 08:52 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

The key issue with defense is that statistical inferences are less reliable (for some positions more than others). But you're right, it says nothing about marginalizing the the value of defense.

Frayed Knot Mar 24 2011 09:14 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

I suspect that Murray, like other 'Moneyball' critics (hi Joe Morgan), didn't read the book and is instead arguing against what he thinks the book says.

Number 6 Mar 24 2011 09:23 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Edgy DC wrote: It's sad rather than amusing to me. To think a talented guy is going to die that bitter and that disgraced. Finding him amusing is more my coping mechanism for dealing with someone infuriating that I have no hope of engaging with on a rational basis. Same way I deal with Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, or my mother-in-law.

The Second Spitter Mar 24 2011 09:41 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

like other 'Moneyball' critics (hi Joe Morgan), "Well, if you think about it, no book has ever hit a home run. These things just don't happen". Jon Miller: "No, they certainly don't" "Can you imagine if a book could hit a home run?" "Now that would be something......." "The Hall of Fame would be ........like a library!" "Because it will be filled with BOOKS!!!" "Heh-heh. I suppose you could hollow-out all the pages and fill them with cork...." ".............."

metirish Mar 25 2011 09:58 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

See, this is why Joe will be missed somewhat on SNB......that kind of insight you just don't get anywhere.

metirish Mar 26 2011 06:46 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Joe Posnanski writes a blog entry in response to the Chass blog about Musial. http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... honor.html

Ashie62 Mar 26 2011 07:58 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Murray Chass=Dick Young.

Edgy DC Mar 26 2011 08:35 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

I'm more of the mindset that I think something is neurologically wrong with the guy. At least, I'm getting there.

metirish Mar 26 2011 08:47 PM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Edgy DC wrote: I'm more of the mindset that I think something is neurologically wrong with the guy. At least, I'm getting there. I don't doubt that at all, I've read over those articles again and there is so much wrong with them that if he had an editor they wouldn't see the light of day. Thing is I can remember liking some of his stuff at the Times.

MFS62 Mar 27 2011 08:52 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

IMO, Murray Chass is bitter they way Dan Daniel was bitter. After many years covering the Yankees for the New York Times, he became to reporter who covered the Mets. His columns, which also appeared in The Sporting News, were full of Yankee news (e.g. - "they wanted Jim Hickman for their minor league system"). Each week, there were no pictures of Mets players in TSN, only the same head shot of George Weiss. I wrote a hand-written note to J.G. Taylor Spink, editor/owner of TSN, pointing this out, and asking for some real news about the team we would be watching, not the one the reporter was used to covering. I guess enough people complained (or Spink actually read what Daniel was writing). After 13 weeks, and a personal reply from Spink, Daniel was no longer the Mets writer for TSN. Unfortunately, this is Chass' own blog. There is no higher authority to whom we can complain. Damn you new technology! Later

Ceetar Mar 27 2011 09:00 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

MFS62 wrote: Unfortunately, this is Chass' own blog. There is no higher authority to whom we can complain. Damn you new technology! Later Sure there is. murraychass.com does not come to my doorstep, is not in my office lunch room. I can't buy it at the newsstand. it's not on my television schedule, and it's not in my email box. Sure, you can't silence him. You can't silence the racist drunk on the bus that tells you the Mets are Los Mets and Beltran is scum. Doesn't mean you have to listen to him though.

Ashie62 Mar 27 2011 09:25 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Is it possible that Murray Chass is just some horribly miserable cranky old dude?

MFS62 Mar 27 2011 10:05 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Ashie62 wrote: Is it possible that Murray Chass is just some horribly miserable cranky old dude? Well its possible. I'm a horribly miserable cranky old dude. But Chass writes some crap that even I wouldn't say. Later

Ashie62 Mar 27 2011 10:42 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

MFS62 wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Is it possible that Murray Chass is just some horribly miserable cranky old dude? Well its possible. I'm a horribly miserable cranky old dude. But Chass writes some crap that even I wouldn't say. Later If someone writes material for a Newspaper or for TV and goes "over the line" we often see them get fired or punished. Are there any repercussions for online blogs that cross the line?? Other than not reading it..

Benjamin Grimm Mar 27 2011 10:55 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

You can get fired or suspended from your daytime job, as we've seen with some school teachers recently.

Ashie62 Mar 27 2011 11:34 AM Re: Murray Chass, Bitter Dude

Benjamin Grimm wrote: You can get fired or suspended from your daytime job, as we've seen with some school teachers recently. True..didn't think of that. In Chass' case that would be Social Security and Medicare.