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Hat Talk

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 12:20 PM

Toronto, Cleveland, and Baltimore all have a claim on Alomar. Blyleven is almost certainly Minnesota, but he kicked some ass with Cleveland too.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 05 2011 12:21 PM Re: Hat Talk

My guess is he'll wear a Toronto cap.

Gwreck Jan 05 2011 12:23 PM Re: Hat Talk

Alomar will get Toronto because: 1. 5 seasons. Only 3 each in Cleveland and Baltimore. 2. 2 World Series championships

Valadius Jan 05 2011 12:25 PM Re: Hat Talk

Alomar gets the classic Blue Jay logo, while Blyleven gets "TC".

Ceetar Jan 05 2011 12:25 PM Re: Hat Talk

you mean it won't be the Mets?

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 12:28 PM Re: Hat Talk

Baseball-Reference WARs: Toronto: 20.1 Baltimore: 12.1 Cleveland: 20.6 (!) (Mets: 0.3)

Valadius Jan 05 2011 12:29 PM Re: Hat Talk

He's talking to MLB Network from Toronto, in front of his Blue Jays uniform.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 05 2011 12:29 PM Re: Hat Talk

Yeah it should be a black Met cap with thick drop-shadow lettering.

Gwreck Jan 05 2011 12:29 PM Re: Hat Talk

Alomar played for seven different franchises during his career. That's a lot, but not the record for the Hall of Fame. By my calculations, there are 4 Hall of Famers who played for more. Who are they?

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 12:34 PM Re: Hat Talk

Not counting Negro League teams? Gaylord Perry.

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 12:35 PM Re: Hat Talk

Rich Gossage. Joe Morgan.

Ceetar Jan 05 2011 12:42 PM Re: Hat Talk

Valadius wrote: He's talking to MLB Network from Toronto, in front of his Blue Jays uniform. personal preference plays a large part right? (Piazza has stated he'd prefer the Mets)

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 12:44 PM Re: Hat Talk

I wouldn't say "large."

batmagadanleadoff Jan 05 2011 12:48 PM Re: Hat Talk

Ceetar wrote: Valadius wrote: He's talking to MLB Network from Toronto, in front of his Blue Jays uniform. personal preference plays a large part right? (Piazza has stated he'd prefer the Mets) The player's personal preference plays no part at all unless the choice is what the HOF considers a close call. Thus, for example, Roberto Alomar will not get to choose to be enshrined in a Mets cap, no matter how strongly he might want to go in as a Met. My hunch is that, on the other hand, Piazza's preference will be considered in choosing between the Mets and Dodgers. The Hall makes the final call, though.

Gwreck Jan 05 2011 12:50 PM Re: Hat Talk

Yes, not counting Negro league teams. Gossage (9) and Perry (8) are correct. Morgan (5) is not.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 05 2011 12:53 PM Re: Hat Talk

Rickey Being Rickey.

Gwreck Jan 05 2011 12:56 PM Re: Hat Talk

Rickey says he played for 9 clubs, leaving one more correct answer out there.

Ceetar Jan 05 2011 12:56 PM Re: Hat Talk

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: Valadius wrote: He's talking to MLB Network from Toronto, in front of his Blue Jays uniform. personal preference plays a large part right? (Piazza has stated he'd prefer the Mets) The player's personal preference plays no part at all unless the choice is what the HOF considers a close call. Thus, for example, Roberto Alomar will not get to choose to be enshrined in a Mets cap, no matter how strongly he might want to go in as a Met. My hunch is that, on the other hand, Piazza's preference will be considered in choosing between the Mets and Dodgers. The Hall makes the final call, though. That's what I meant. With Piazza's preference, and the Mets "claiming" him with the closing Shea opening of Citi thing I imagine it'll be a pretty easy decision.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 05 2011 12:58 PM Re: Hat Talk

Winfield?

Gwreck Jan 05 2011 01:02 PM Re: Hat Talk

Only 6.

HahnSolo Jan 05 2011 01:15 PM Re: Hat Talk

Alomar only a handful of hits away from having 500 hits with four teams: SD - 497 Tor - 832 Bal - 496 Cle - 564

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 01:24 PM Re: Hat Talk

"Too bad, Spitboy."

Centerfield Jan 05 2011 01:33 PM Re: Hat Talk

Ryan?

Gwreck Jan 05 2011 01:34 PM Re: Hat Talk

Only 4 for Nolan.

metsmarathon Jan 05 2011 01:36 PM Re: Hat Talk

i did some digging and i think i found a guy who played for 8 franchises (or maybe 7). since i dug him up, i won't hazard a guess. but did our many-hatted man finish his career with a 0.310 batting average?

Gwreck Jan 05 2011 01:55 PM Re: Hat Talk

Do you mean this guy? If so, nice pickup. I assure you he wasn't who I was thinking of. The one remaining correct answer played entirely in the 20th century.

Frayed Knot Jan 05 2011 02:02 PM Re: Hat Talk

FWIW, the HoF claims it's always been their call as to what insignia goes on the plaque although there were years where they were obviously lax in enforcing that. At the same time they do say they take a players preference into consideration if there's any questions while still retaining final say. In Piazza's case, he has more games & ABs as a Met than in any other uniform which, when combined with his stated choice to represent the NYM, pretty much seals the deal IMO.

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 02:06 PM Re: Hat Talk

Seriously better seasons in LA, though. His 1997 was as good as it gets. It's still an open question from my seat.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 05 2011 02:12 PM Re: Hat Talk

His one World Series appearance came as a Met, which, I think, can also be a factor. I think he'll have a Mets cap on his plaque, but the Dodgers do have a shot. I'll say he has a 70% chance of an "NY".

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 02:15 PM Re: Hat Talk

Baseball-Reference Win Shares: 34.3 as a Dodger 24.6 as a Metzkovich

metirish Jan 05 2011 02:22 PM Re: Hat Talk

Alomar stated again today that he wants to wear a Blue Jays cap....in fact from what I could gather on twitter he was in the Rogers Center for the announcement.

G-Fafif Jan 05 2011 03:00 PM Re: Hat Talk

Piazza more defined by his Met experience than Dodger in popular perception (I took a definitive survey of myself and came up with that). The World Series plus 9/21/01 puts him over the top. He became a star baseball player in L.A. He became a celebrated figure in New York while remaining a baseball star. Played a featured role in closing and opening a stadium for the Mets. Dodgers have ignored him. Didn't even put 31 into mothballs. Frank Robinson started as a Red, starred as a Red, played a long time as a Red -- but he's portrayed as an Oriole. Not a perfect precedent, but it seems reasonable. Robinson stepped up his profile as an O. Carlton Fisk played longer as a White Sock but nothing he did there transcended his time as a Red Sock. Gary Carter...he couldn't even outdo Dave Kingman as a Met according to CPF rankings, so no wonder he's an HOF Expo. Groping for clues in quest of the desired outcome. I think we'll get it, but no, it's not a certainty.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 05 2011 03:46 PM Re: Hat Talk

Piazza's personal preferences notwithstanding, I think a reasonable case could be made for both the Mets and Dodgers. If I was an impartial HOF committee member deciding on Piazza's HOF plaque cap, I wouldn't consider Piazza's role in the Shea closing and CF opening ceremonies. That would be penalizing the Dodgers for not tearing down their beautiful stadium. And I wouldn't factor in the fact that Piazza's old Dodger uni # is still in circulation, either. Teams shouldn't have the ability to sway this decision. Do the Devil rays strengthen their case for a Tampa bay cap on Wade Boggs' head because they retired his uni #?

Valadius Jan 05 2011 03:54 PM Re: Hat Talk

If you had to rank Mike Piazza in terms of his worth to the Mets and to the Dodgers, he ranks in the top five Mets of all time, whereas his status in Dodger-dom is far less significant. Edge Mets.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 05 2011 04:06 PM Re: Hat Talk Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 05 2011 08:27 PM

Wouldn't that be punishing the Dodgers for their richer history? The HR's Piazza hit for the Dodgers weren't less significant than his Mets HR's just because Snider and Hodges and Campanella once played for Dodgers.

Frayed Knot Jan 05 2011 04:42 PM Re: Hat Talk

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Piazza's personal preferences notwithstanding, I think a reasonable case could be made for both the Mets and Dodgers. So do I, which is why I suspect his personal preference will - and probably should - tilt the balance in what is an otherwise even "race". I should probably add here (and not for the first time) that I think this whole HoF 'hat' deal is a totally over-blown issue and aren't going to care a lot one way or the other. If Piazza's plaque has an 'LA' on it it's not like that negates the parts of his career spent here or elsewhere.

Edgy DC Jan 05 2011 07:43 PM Re: Hat Talk

I think you stay up nights thinking about this. You walk down the street, taking in seemingly random events, and wonder, "How is that going to impact what logo goes on Gary Sheffield's Hall of Fame plaque?" You scan the stock listings, see Circle K is down one and a quarter and think, "That's bad news for Arizonans' hopes for a perpetual 'db' on the bronze forehead of Randy Johnson."

metsguyinmichigan Jan 06 2011 04:16 AM Re: Hat Talk

Since Piazza is a catcher, they could use one of those photos where he has the helmet on backwards so no logo would show on the front. But I fully expect he'll go in as a Met. There are plenty of Dodger in the Hall, and just Seaver wears the Mets logo.

Valadius Jan 06 2011 04:04 PM Re: Hat Talk

Just so we're all aware, the Mets are tied with Detroit for the longest drought of players entering the Hall wearing their cap. Current streaks: Team Length of Drought New York Mets 19 (1992) Detroit Tigers 19 (1992) Philadelphia Phillies 15 (1996) Atlanta Braves 14 (1997) Chicago White Sox 14 (1997) Cleveland Indians 13 (1998) Los Angeles Dodgers 13 (1998) Kansas City Royals 12 (1999) San Francisco Giants 12 (1999) Texas Rangers 12 (1999) Cincinnati Reds 11 (2000) Pittsburgh Pirates 10 (2001) Milwaukee Brewers 7 (2004) Chicago Cubs 6 (2005) St. Louis Cardinals 5 (2006) Baltimore Orioles 4 (2007) San Diego Padres 4 (2007) Boston Red Sox 2 (2009) New York Yankees 2 (2009) Oakland Athletics 2 (2009) Washington Nationals 1 (2010)

Rockin' Doc Jan 06 2011 06:46 PM Re: Hat Talk

Phil Niekro was pretty well traveled for a Hall of Famer. I always associate him as a Brave, but he got around in the latter portion of his long career. There is a strong case to made for Piazza going in as either a Dodger or a Met. I say he should go in as a Met due to more seasons, more games played, more at bats, more hits, more home runs, and more RBIs as a Met.

Willets Point Jan 06 2011 07:02 PM Re: Hat Talk

There's a player wearing a Nationals' cap in the baseball Hall of Fame?

G-Fafif Jan 06 2011 07:08 PM Re: Hat Talk

Willets Point wrote: There's a player wearing a Nationals' cap in the baseball Hall of Fame? Andre Dawson -- more like he's wearing an asterisk to make this list.

Willets Point Jan 06 2011 07:12 PM Re: Hat Talk

G-Fafif wrote: Willets Point wrote: There's a player wearing a Nationals' cap in the baseball Hall of Fame? Andre Dawson -- more like he's wearing an asterisk to make this list. An asterisk may be more attractive than that funky M that always looked like it said ELO to me.

G-Fafif Jan 06 2011 07:45 PM Re: Hat Talk

There's a player wearing a Nationals' cap in the baseball Hall of Fame? Andre Dawson -- more like he's wearing an asterisk to make this list. An asterisk may be more attractive than that funky M that always looked like it said ELO to me. Expo fan to Dawson one year ago regarding Andre's preference to be bronzed a Cub: Don't bring me down...

metsguyinmichigan Jan 07 2011 03:09 PM Re: Hat Talk

Raines would be the third -- and last? -- Expo when he gets in. Not a bad run for a team that only lasted, what, 25 years? I suspect that Larry Walker, if elected, would be a Rockie and Randy Johnson would be either a Mariner or D-back.

Edgy DC Jan 07 2011 06:45 PM Re: Hat Talk

Rusty could still back in and get tagged with an M.

Chad Ochoseis Jan 07 2011 07:07 PM Re: Hat Talk

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Raines would be the third -- and last? -- Expo when he gets in. Whoa, there...I know there's a huge groundswell of support for Raines here in the CPF, but he's still only at 37.5% in the BBWAA. I wouldn't forge his plaque just yet. I was happy about Carter going in as an Expo despite his Metliness, because I figured he'd be the first and last. I didn't think Raines was quite good enough and Dawson wasn't even on my radar.

G-Fafif Jan 08 2011 06:52 AM Re: Hat Talk

Raines would be the third -- and last? -- Expo when he gets in. Not a bad run for a team that only lasted, what, 25 years? 36 seasons, but it's a great point regarding the talent the Expos cultivated and nurtured. Two homegrown Hall of Famers, possibly a third, reaching the bigs and their potential in a period of about a dozen years: roughly Carter's standout rookie year of 1975 to that day Raines came back from collusion in 1987 and whacked the Mets around on the Game of the Week, which is the highlight they'll run into the ground should his election day come. By the time each left the Expos after about ten seasons with Montreal (Carter after '84, Dawson after '86, Raines after '90), you could have applied the tag "future Hall of Famer" and not been crazy. Only Seaver and Ryan, among the now 11 Mets in the Hall, were developed as Mets, and only Seaver was consensus future HOFer material when he left the Mets (twice). If/when Piazza, Gl@v!ne and Martinez get in, the ratio will be 2 of 14. So for concentrated "immortal" impact, the Expos figure to have us beat for a while, pending Raines's electoral momentum and David Wright's ability to continue to be David Wright -- and to continue being David Wright right here. But we're up two world championships to none on Montreal with the theoretical hope of more, so there, you hosers.

MFS62 Jan 08 2011 08:58 AM Re: Hat Talk

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I suspect that ..... Randy Johnson would be either a Mariner or D-back. They were going to take his picture in a Yankee cap, to use as a model in case he was to go in that way, but he slugged the photographer. Later