Master Index of Archived Threads


Would Alderson say yes again?

Ashie62 Jan 31 2011 01:33 PM

Interesting short piece by Rubin on espn.ny. If Alderson wanted out I imagine the Mets would have to pay him something if Sandy was unaware of the first ponzi scheme. [url]http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/13777/would-sandy-say-yes-again

Ceetar Jan 31 2011 01:36 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

I imagine he would, yes, as it seems unlikely anything about his job has changed.

Valadius Jan 31 2011 01:37 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

I imagine, with Sandy being Selig's man, that Sandy will get significant say with the commissioner's office in evaluating the suitability of the new owners.

Ashie62 Jan 31 2011 01:40 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Ceetar wrote: I imagine he would, yes, as it seems unlikely anything about his job has changed. Sandy's job may have changed in he could be hamstrung by the budget for longer than he or nyone thought. Well, the lwsuit is unsealed 2/9/11, more to come.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 31 2011 01:41 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Ceetar wrote: I imagine he would, yes, as it seems unlikely anything about his job has changed. You don't think that the budget may be revised downward/come with a less-flexible ceiling these days? The need for capital is apparently so great that the Wilpons are considering something that is tantamount to cutting off an appendage for them.

Valadius Jan 31 2011 01:42 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Ashie62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: I imagine he would, yes, as it seems unlikely anything about his job has changed. Sandy's job may have changed in he could be hamstrung by the budget for longer than he or nyone thought. Well, the lwsuit is unsealed 2/9/11, more to come. What a nice birthday present. Bye-bye, Jeffy!

Ceetar Jan 31 2011 01:46 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: I imagine he would, yes, as it seems unlikely anything about his job has changed. You don't think that the budget may be revised downward/come with a less-flexible ceiling these days? The need for capital is apparently so great that the Wilpons are considering something that is tantamount to cutting off an appendage for them. I don't think the budget has changed, no. Obviously, they need to show it, and not say it, so if they do let Reyes walk and don't sign anyone again next season I'll concede that they've changed the budget. But they've stated this is preventative so that they don't have to actually affect the team. Plus, if they're truly going to sell part of the team, they're going to have to sell them on the increasing value of that investment, which means continuing to spend money on the team to make them successful and competitive. We'll see of course, maybe it's already that far out of control and they're just not being public with the knowledge that they can no longer afford the team? But that seems unlikely since the lawsuit is far from settled yet.

seawolf17 Jan 31 2011 01:48 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

It's not like their financial issues were some big secret... I'm sure it came up in the interview process.

metirish Jan 31 2011 01:50 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

I'll refer to this Waldstein article in the Times last week.....IIRC it was linked here at the site Alderson has said that he was not advised of any financial uncertainties with the Mets when he accepted the job, although he certainly knew that Wilpon and Katz had made substantial investments with Madoff. Alderson also has said he never had any conversations with Selig about such matters. But he has been through this kind of chaos before. Alderson presided over the Padres from 2005 to 2009, a period in which the team’s owner, John Moores, went through a messy divorce and eventually relinquished control of the team. Alderson is a big boy , he'll be fine.... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/sport ... erson.html Worst case scenario , or best case scenario depending on how you feel I would think if the Mets do change hands it will be to someone with deep pockets and that Alderson and his crew would remain.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 31 2011 02:01 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Yes, and Alderson presided over a sort of perpetual fire sale for the better part of that time.

metirish Jan 31 2011 02:09 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Yes, and Alderson presided over a sort of perpetual fire sale for the better part of that time. Really?, two losing seasons in that time, finished first two times too... http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SDP/

Ceetar Jan 31 2011 02:10 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

The more people that chime in the more confusing and conflicting this is becoming. Can we just play baseball already? Not like this really should affect the 2011 roster.

metirish Jan 31 2011 02:12 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Ceetar wrote: The more people that chime in the more confusing and conflicting this is becoming. Can we just play baseball already? Not like this really should affect the 2011 roster. Well , this is a message board, should we shut up shop until opening day? , I kinda like it here though.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jan 31 2011 02:17 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

metirish wrote: Yes, and Alderson presided over a sort of perpetual fire sale for the better part of that time. Really?, two losing seasons in that time, finished first two times too... http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SDP/ The divorce itself was from offseason 2008 on, with the team sale talk starting after 2008. Peavy and the gang went soon afterward.

Ceetar Jan 31 2011 02:20 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

metirish wrote: Ceetar wrote: The more people that chime in the more confusing and conflicting this is becoming. Can we just play baseball already? Not like this really should affect the 2011 roster. Well , this is a message board, should we shut up shop until opening day? , I kinda like it here though. Didn't mean here, just in general. You've got conspiracies about Selig over there, and over there someone says the Wilpons knew everything, and then you go over there and they claim the only reason the lawsuit stuff is sealed is cause its' bad, and then Francesa's brilliant insight about this haunting the Wilpons for generations if they don't sell. Some say there are tons of investors, or mabye multiple investors, or maybe no one would ever want to buy part of a baseball team without XXX. I"m mainly just confused. but hey, Dickey's official.

metirish Jan 31 2011 02:23 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

I hear ya Ceetar , the next few months should be a roller coaster of a ride.....

Ceetar Jan 31 2011 02:26 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

metirish wrote: I hear ya Ceetar , the next few months should be a roller coaster of a ride..... I'm hoping most of it is background noise in two weeks, but yeah.

metirish Jan 31 2011 03:01 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Alderson speaks http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... ff-wilpons

batmagadanleadoff Jan 31 2011 03:35 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

metirish wrote: Alderson speaks http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... ff-wilpons I'm ignoring Sandy's comments. They might be true. But they might not be true. Sandy works for the Mets; he's not going to undermine whatever it is that ownership wants us to believe. As to the Mets having one of 2011's highest payrolls, the Mets were already committed to most of it before Sandy was hired. They've added very little payroll since, underspent on last year's draft, and haven't re-signed Jose Reyes. So you can spin the Mets payroll more ways than one.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 31 2011 03:43 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: The more people that chime in the more confusing and conflicting this is becoming. Can we just play baseball already? Not like this really should affect the 2011 roster. Well , this is a message board, should we shut up shop until opening day? , I kinda like it here though. Didn't mean here, just in general. You've got conspiracies about Selig over there, and over there someone says the Wilpons knew everything, and then you go over there and they claim the only reason the lawsuit stuff is sealed is cause its' bad, and then Francesa's brilliant insight about this haunting the Wilpons for generations if they don't sell. Some say there are tons of investors, or mabye multiple investors, or maybe no one would ever want to buy part of a baseball team without XXX. I"m mainly just confused. but hey, Dickey's official. You might try spinning your optimism in another direction. This could be a good thing in the end. If you believe, like I do, that the Wilpons are crappy, cheesy owners, then change might be for the better. I like the hiring of Sandy Alderson, but I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps, someone as strong as Alderson would ever have been hired in the first place if the Wilpons weren't sitting on this Madoff timebomb; and that but for the Madoff scandal, it would have been business as usual for the Mets, with another weak-willed puppet GM replacing Minaya so that he too, could be ridden roughshod by the owners.

Gwreck Jan 31 2011 04:39 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

batmagadanleadoff wrote: As to the Mets having one of 2011's highest payrolls, the Mets were already committed to most of it before Sandy was hired. They've added very little payroll since, underspent on last year's draft, and haven't re-signed Jose Reyes. So you can spin the Mets payroll more ways than one. That's a good point. The most accurate way to describe the Mets' budget is probably "capped." It's indisputable that they are spending a large quantity of money, a good deal of which is not returning much value, and accordingly, they aren't exactly spending even more on top of that already-large sum. (This level of accuracy doesn't make a good soundbite, however).

Ceetar Jan 31 2011 04:55 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Gwreck wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: As to the Mets having one of 2011's highest payrolls, the Mets were already committed to most of it before Sandy was hired. They've added very little payroll since, underspent on last year's draft, and haven't re-signed Jose Reyes. So you can spin the Mets payroll more ways than one. That's a good point. The most accurate way to describe the Mets' budget is probably "capped." It's indisputable that they are spending a large quantity of money, a good deal of which is not returning much value, and accordingly, they aren't exactly spending even more on top of that already-large sum. (This level of accuracy doesn't make a good soundbite, however). And logically it makes sense. you're don't push against your budget constraints unless you're highly likely to get a return on that investment. In any way. Look at the Yankees when they traded for A-Rod. The boost they got in attendence marketing and sales after that signing easily made the signing worth it. Theoretically pushing the 2007 team over the top with the best pitcher in baseball seemed, and still does seem, a good move. But before you know how these guys are going to rebound, you can't just throw money at random holes and hope it makes up a team. Pretend it's 2012 for a second, and the Mets are at their 'magic' number of 120 or whatever, are competing and a positive ballclub, and Santana suddenly goes down. Maybe going after a Cliff Lee makes sense in that regard, keeps your team competitive, keeps them on top of the game, even if it pushes you to your cap. As batmagadanleadoff, maybe you can spin it the other eway. personally I don't know how to evaluate owners even less than GMs without knowing the facts behind the scenes. I don't think the Wilpons are a disaster and I don't think i can point to that's immediately obviously better. But they do need to put up. Dickey is part of that, but extend Reyes. make trades midseason.

smg58 Jan 31 2011 05:41 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

If the Mets fail to spend any money next offseason after freeing up $50M in payroll, I will assume Alderson has his hands tied. Until then, all this bullshit speculation is irritating and pointless. I can tune in WFAN if I want to hear other Mets fans tell me the sky is falling. I don't need that or want that here.

batmagadanleadoff Jan 31 2011 06:43 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

smg58 wrote: If the Mets fail to spend any money next offseason after freeing up $50M in payroll, I will assume Alderson has his hands tied. Until then, all this bullshit speculation is irritating and pointless. I can tune in WFAN if I want to hear other Mets fans tell me the sky is falling. I don't need that or want that here. One could say that most of we post here is speculative and opinionated. Maybe it's pointless to speculate about what we should expect from Zach Lutz or Fernando Martinez this season because come October, we'll know for sure. How many HR's will Jason Bay hit in 2011? How many games will the Mets win? Don't answer those. It's pointless. We'll know for sure eventually. (BTW, I didn't tell anyone that the sky is falling in my Sandy post.)

smg58 Jan 31 2011 07:47 PM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Well I'd much rather speculate about the players and the actual playing of the game. :-) I guess I'm just sick of hearing about the Wilpons, especially when it seems like everything I'm reading or hearing is negative not just towards them but towards the future of the Mets. We already knew the budget was maxed out, we already suspected their relationship with Madoff had something to do with it, and now they're willing to sell part of the team to make up some money. Fine. I think the best strategy for the fans, as well as for Alderson and the players, is to focus on the games and the financial issues will sort themselves out. PS I apologize if any offense was taken at my previous post.

Ashie62 Feb 01 2011 04:51 AM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

"It's getting better all the time, it can't get no worse."

batmagadanleadoff Feb 01 2011 07:53 AM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Ashie62 wrote: "It's getting better all the time, it can't get no worse." I think so. I'd rather take my chances with new owners instead of Jeff Wilpon eventually and inevitably running everything when Fred and Saul decide to retire. These clowns had their opportunity. And ever since Davey Johnson was let go about 20 years ago, the NL franchise from New York has had just one first place finish and just one manager who wasn't a turd. I dislike the new stadium more than I like it. I could go on here. The uniforms are ugly, too. But I don't see this Madoff scandal as bad news for the Mets.

batmagadanleadoff Feb 01 2011 08:42 AM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

Now here's some sky is falling news. Forbes magazine does some back of the envelope number crunching and concludes that the Mets might have to cut their 2011 payroll by an additional $20-30M lower than Alderson's lowest estimate for the 2011 payroll. http://blogs.forbes.com/mikeozanian/201 ... 0-million/ My question is: How is this even possible, assuming it's true? Is there even $20M - 30M in payroll that's not guaranteed? Triple me down on the under 55 in the K-Rod thread.

Ceetar Feb 01 2011 08:56 AM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Now here's some sky is falling news. Forbes magazine does some back of the envelope number crunching and concludes that the Mets might have to cut their 2011 payroll by an additional $20-30M lower than Alderson's lowest estimate for the 2011 payroll. http://blogs.forbes.com/mikeozanian/201 ... 0-million/ My question is: How is this even possible, assuming it's true? Is there even $20M - 30M in payroll that's not guaranteed? Triple me down on the under 55 in the K-Rod thread. Forbes wrote: But the cost-cutting will likely be more severe because there are probably debt covenants tied to all the money owner Fred Wilpon has borrowed tied to the Mets That's a lot of speculation without any hard fact. Not to mention all the speculation on what the expected revenue will be.

The Second Spitter Feb 02 2011 04:01 AM Re: Would Alderson say yes again?

smg58 wrote: If the Mets fail to spend any money next offseason after freeing up $50M in payroll, I will assume Alderson has his hands tied. Until then, all this bullshit speculation is irritating and pointless. I can tune in WFAN if I want to hear other Mets fans tell me the sky is falling. I don't need that or want that here. I can understand why some Mets fans may find the whole notion of rebuilding an organization by doing simple things, like not giving up draft picks and prospects, to be an alien concept.