Master Index of Archived Threads


Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy MD Feb 01 2011 07:57 AM

Is the agitation for self-rule in the middle east in part the child of Julian Assange? Will it work?

Benjamin Grimm Feb 01 2011 08:50 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I first read "child of Julian" as "Julia Child" and wondered what her connection could possibly be.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 01 2011 08:52 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I was thinking of the Met-lovin singer for the Strokes at first.

seawolf17 Feb 01 2011 08:53 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

What are three places I do not want to go?

metirish Feb 01 2011 08:54 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I think Reagan gets the credit.

Vic Sage Feb 01 2011 08:55 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

self rule? who on this planet has self rule? If you're talking about deposing a current dictator and replacing him with another one (whether secular or fundamentalist), yes that can and does work. But its never ended up in "self rule", whether the replacement mechanism was elections or guns. Don't let "elections" stand in as the definition of self rule. Even for a "Democracy" (which, i will assume for the sake of argument, is what you mean by self rule), elections require certain political institutions to exist for the elections to be meaningful. You need a free press to let the electorate know what's going on beyond their immediate neighborhoods, a variety of organized and competing ideologies to codify and promote a range of political viewpoints for the electorate to choose from, openness and transparency in both the election and governing processes (including executive, legislative and judicial functions), to give the government legitimacy and provide oversight to the people, and the time for all these elements to create a level playing field, so the passions of the moment do not sweep away everything, because in times of crisis, populi have been known to sell their souls for a crust of bread. i don't see any of these institutions at play in the countries you've mentioned, so i don't hold out hope for democracy there, much less the ephemeral ideal of self-rule.

Valadius Feb 01 2011 09:37 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Qatar? What drugs are you on?

Edgy MD Feb 01 2011 10:01 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Vic Sage wrote: self rule? who on this planet has self rule? If you're talking about deposing a current dictator and replacing him with another one (whether secular or fundamentalist), yes that can and does work. But its never ended up in "self rule", whether the replacement mechanism was elections or guns. Don't let "elections" stand in as the definition of self rule. Even for a "Democracy" (which, i will assume for the sake of argument, is what you mean by self rule), elections require certain political institutions to exist for the elections to be meaningful. You need a free press to let the electorate know what's going on beyond their immediate neighborhoods, a variety of organized and competing ideologies to codify and promote a range of political viewpoints for the electorate to choose from, openness and transparency in both the election and governing processes (including executive, legislative and judicial functions), to give the government legitimacy and provide oversight to the people, and the time for all these elements to create a level playing field, so the passions of the moment do not sweep away everything, because in times of crisis, populi have been known to sell their souls for a crust of bread. i don't see any of these institutions at play in the countries you've mentioned, so i don't hold out hope for democracy there, much less the ephemeral ideal of self-rule. Uh, thanks. Valadius wrote: Qatar? What drugs are you on? What the hell? OK, Yemen.

metsmarathon Feb 01 2011 10:05 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Vic Sage wrote: self rule? who on this planet has self rule? there's a couple of kings and monarchs and despots i think.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 01 2011 10:35 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Even for a "Democracy" (which, i will assume for the sake of argument, is what you mean by self rule), elections require certain political institutions to exist for the elections to be meaningful. You need a free press to let the electorate know what's going on beyond their immediate neighborhoods When Al Jazeera's on-air, they do a pretty damn good job of this in certain places. Also, the Egyptians may have something of a mechanism by which to accomplish this that doesn't involve printing presses, or much infrastructure at all, really. (HINT: you're using it now!) ... a variety of organized and competing ideologies to codify and promote a range of political viewpoints for the electorate to choose from... How can you be so pissy about "self rule," and be this vague here? I honestly don't know what association/concept you mean here, specifically. If it's "ideas about how a government should operate," I'm pretty sure Egyptians have got 'em. If it's "organized political parties," I know Egyptians have got 'em (to an extent, and largely underground; public expression of opposition's been a bit taboo for a while). ... openness and transparency in both the election and governing processes (including executive, legislative and judicial functions), to give the government legitimacy and provide oversight to the people Well, no. They don't have this in Egypt at the moment. The guy who's held power for 30 years and his gigantic de facto junta have put something of a damper on free and fair electoral processes. Without a recent tradition here, it'll take a while for these processes to take root. But it kinda stems from a provisional constitution, a functioning judiciary and establishing rule-of-law... the Egyptians have done THIS before. ... and the time for all these elements to create a level playing field, so the passions of the moment do not sweep away everything, because in times of crisis, populi have been known to sell their souls for a crust of bread. Okay, fair enough. They'll need a little time. i don't see any of these institutions at play in the countries you've mentioned, so i don't hold out hope for democracy there, much less the ephemeral ideal of self-rule. Well, then, fuck 'em! What DO you see then, Captain Optimism?

Edgy MD Feb 04 2011 11:45 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Muslims pause during their protests to pray. Non-Muslims build a human wall to guard their backs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqXfZTgOCOE

Vic Sage Feb 04 2011 10:18 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

What DO you see then, Captain Optimism? i see blood and destruction, and ultimately another band of thugs (this time theocratic and home-grown, rather than merely militaristic and corrupt, and sponsored by the US) hijacking a popular uprising, creating yet another oppressive regime screaming "death to america, death to israel" for those journalistic paragons at Al Jazeera to broadcast... oh, wait, i forgot, you prefer the "one crank, one website" form of popular "journalism" to shed light on this situation. [the internet = journalism; that's really fucking funny] self rule... heh heh heh. I'm still waiting for that HERE.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 05 2011 01:33 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Thanks for the respectful, non-dismissive tone. While I'll grant that your view of things has kernels of truth studding the kneejerk cynicism, I do sincerely hope you're proven wrong.

Edgy MD Feb 10 2011 07:21 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

What an astounding photonarrative.

dgwphotography Feb 10 2011 08:54 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: What an astounding photonarrative. Amazing - thanks for sharing.

metirish Feb 10 2011 08:56 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Stunning images Mubarak apparently will step down as early as tonight

Willets Point Feb 10 2011 08:58 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

metirish wrote: Stunning images Mubarak apparently will step down as early as tonight Will he be part of the investor group offering to buy the Mets? (just taking the piss)

metirish Feb 10 2011 09:00 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Willets Point wrote: metirish wrote: Stunning images Mubarak apparently will step down as early as tonight Will he be part of the investor group offering to buy the Mets? (just taking the piss) He's not Cuban you know

Benjamin Grimm Feb 10 2011 09:10 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I've been thinking we should all get on our camels and storm Citi Field to see if we can get the Wilpons to abdicate.

Frayed Knot Feb 10 2011 09:18 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I've been thinking we should all get on our camels and storm Citi Field to see if we can get the Wilpons to abdicate. Or maybe just borrow some alpacas from Billy Wagner, camels being a bit tough to come by around these parts and all.

metirish Feb 10 2011 09:21 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Great ideas Grim and FK , 'tis a bit cold for protesting right now though don't you think, at least wait until it warms up a bit, I'm a fair weather protester.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 10 2011 09:28 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Frayed Knot wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I've been thinking we should all get on our camels and storm Citi Field to see if we can get the Wilpons to abdicate. Or maybe just borrow some alpacas from Billy Wagner, camels being a bit tough to come by around these parts and all. "What, like I'm easy or something? Dick." (Spits)

Valadius Feb 10 2011 10:45 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Throughout this entire process I've been conflating Gamal Mubarak with Jeff Wilpon. And I think the comparison is pretty accurate.

Frayed Knot Feb 10 2011 11:05 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Valadius wrote: Throughout this entire process I've been conflating Gamal Mubarak with Jeff Wilpon. And I think the comparison is pretty accurate. Similar hair. btw, the number of alpacas in this country has skyrocketed in recent years - in no small part due to the tax incentive given out to raise them. Not surprising then that the likes of Billy Wagner and Sam Donaldson were among those who got into the "hobby".

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 10 2011 11:47 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Gamal's hair is better. So, it seems, is his political acumen.

metirish Feb 10 2011 02:11 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Mubarak just doesn't get it, if you watched the press conference with some dodgy translation the huge roars were when he said " my dear son and I will be buried here", he ain't going anywhere.

Ashie62 Feb 10 2011 03:01 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

No he is not. Personally I believe Mubarek=Sulieman anyway. This is going to end badly for all involved.

Edgy MD Feb 10 2011 03:02 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I've officially called for Mubarak to step aside but he hasn't gotten back to me.

Ashie62 Feb 10 2011 03:21 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: I've officially called for Mubarak to step aside but he hasn't gotten back to me. Or Obama either...

Edgy MD Feb 10 2011 08:32 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

My guess is he's baiting them into rioting, so he can "justifiably" order a military crackdown.

Edgy MD Feb 11 2011 09:45 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Muhammed Hosni Mubyebye.

metirish Feb 11 2011 09:47 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

About time , I was going to start a thread to get rid of him. So the guy that takes over is great right? SC = 100 Just saw a headline..... Suleiman: The CIA's man in Cairo http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 82865.html

Edgy MD Feb 11 2011 09:55 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Yes, this could shift the target fo the uprising to the US (and Israel). Or maybe not.

metirish Feb 11 2011 09:57 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Does anyone get Al Jazeera English ?, I wish FiOS would add it already.

Valadius Feb 11 2011 10:00 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

metirish wrote: Does anyone get Al Jazeera English ?, I wish FiOS would add it already. It's on Comcast in DC. Other than that, only a couple of providers in Vermont and Ohio offer it right now.

metirish Feb 11 2011 10:01 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Valadius wrote: metirish wrote: Does anyone get Al Jazeera English ?, I wish FiOS would add it already. It's on Comcast in DC. Other than that, only a couple of providers in Vermont and Ohio offer it right now. Thanks Val , very limited availability .... it's online of course. I want my Daljit Dhaliwal

Valadius Feb 11 2011 10:04 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

First Tunisia. Now Egypt. Up next? The New York Mets. PEOPLE DEMAND REMOVAL OF THE REGIME

Edgy MD Feb 11 2011 10:08 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Uh, count this people out.

Frayed Knot Feb 11 2011 10:45 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

metirish wrote: Does anyone get Al Jazeera English ?, I wish FiOS would add it already. Ch 457 on my FIOS

metirish Feb 15 2011 02:19 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Frayed Knot wrote: metirish wrote: Does anyone get Al Jazeera English ?, I wish FiOS would add it already. Ch 457 on my FIOS Missed this , will check it later......meanwhile bloody hell CBS News' Lara Logan Assaulted During Egypt Protests CBS News Chief Foreign Correspondent Separated From Her Crew And Brutally Assaulted on Day Mubarak Stepped Down (CBSNews) On Friday February 11, the day Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak stepped down, CBS correspondent Lara Logan was covering the jubilation in Tahrir Square for a "60 Minutes" story when she and her team and their security were surrounded by a dangerous element amidst the celebration. It was a mob of more than 200 people whipped into frenzy. In the crush of the mob, she was separated from her crew. She was surrounded and suffered a brutal and sustained sexual assault and beating before being saved by a group of women and an estimated 20 Egyptian soldiers. She reconnected with the CBS team, returned to her hotel and returned to the United States on the first flight the next morning. She is currently in the hospital recovering. There will be no further comment from CBS News and Correspondent Logan and her family respectfully request privacy at this time.

HahnSolo Feb 15 2011 03:01 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Terrible. Terrible. I wonder what prompted CBS to go public with this. I suppose another news organization had the story and threatened to run with it. They didn't take her immediately for medical attention?

Edgy MD Feb 15 2011 03:03 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I was thinking the same thing. "CBS reporters make it their policy to shield the names of rape victims, unless they are CBS reporters."

Benjamin Grimm Feb 15 2011 03:27 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I suspect (and hope) that CBS cleared it with her regarding how much info they'd release.

metirish Feb 16 2011 06:51 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Some the stuff written and tweeted about Logan is truly shocking and none more than Nir Rosen's vile twitter stream yesterday . Rosen has since resigned from his position at NYU http://twitter.com/#!/nirrosen Lara Logan coverage

Nymr83 Feb 19 2011 03:42 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

The internet has the unfortunate effect sometimes of not giving you time to think things over before you "publish" them. I'm kinda suprised that Rosen stepped down right away, I'd expect the huge apology first to see if things could blow over for him. Meanwhile, you can add Libya to the list of dictatorships facing unrest, where 15 people were killed by Gadhafi's forces at a funeral turned protest.

Edgy MD Feb 19 2011 03:49 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Tunisia and Egypt turned over. With outbreaks of verying degrees in Libya, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Oman, Bahrain, and Algeria. Probably others I'm overlooking.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 19 2011 06:13 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Madison, Wisconsin.

Nymr83 Feb 19 2011 11:57 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: Tunisia and Egypt turned over. With outbreaks of verying degrees in Libya, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Oman, Bahrain, and Algeria. Probably others I'm overlooking. Jordan supposedly had some unrest as well, the king fired a prime minister and put a new one in place to try and make people happy.

Edgy MD Feb 20 2011 05:24 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

"I am crying. Why is the world not listening?" --- Libyan doctor who says he's seen 200 protestors killed.

Frayed Knot Feb 20 2011 08:25 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: "I am crying. Why is the world not listening?" --- Libyan doctor who says he's seen 200 protestors killed. In large part because Libya is allowing no outside or independent media to cover the action.

Edgy MD Feb 22 2011 10:20 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Yeah, well, Libya's losing control rapidly, with huge (and oil rich) swaths of the country having overcome any military or police reach. Two bombers have defected rather than obey orders to bomb civilians. Gadafi has declared expression of dissent to be a capital crime and nobody seems to care. They don't want to see him toppled, but rather killed. His regime is in the last days. He's old enough that martyrdom might seem more appealing than exile, but his son better start calling any Saudi friends he has.

Edgy MD Mar 17 2011 10:44 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Four New York Times correspondents have gone missing in Libya, including senior folk, as the US puts airstrikes on the table at the UN.

metirish Mar 18 2011 08:18 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Gadafy in a move that will surely upset conservatives today called a cease fire , he says he will use the time to update his NCAA box.

Edgy MD Mar 18 2011 08:31 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

However briefly that cease fire holds, I need to ask: Did a UN resolution just... work?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 18 2011 08:33 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I'm flabbergasted myself. Any word on the reporters? I hadn't seen any updates posted by late last night.

metirish Mar 18 2011 08:38 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

However briefly that cease fire holds, I need to ask: Did a UN resolution just... work? I guess it all depends on who you believe Gadaffi declares ceasefire...but continues to bomb rebels as U.S. forces gear up to enforce Libya no-fly zone

Lefty Specialist Mar 18 2011 08:47 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

It'd be amazing if it actually worked, but you'd have to think that Qaddafi would be using the 'ceasefire' to solidify his control on the areas he already has and get geared up for his final push against the rebels. He hasn't hung around for 42 years by being stupid.

Edgy MD Mar 18 2011 08:53 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

No, but it's helped that he's crazy and crazy rich. It seems like the French want to be first in line if it comes to air strikes.

soupcan Mar 18 2011 08:59 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I'm flabbergasted myself. Any word on the reporters? I hadn't seen any updates posted by late last night. Here's this. The photog, Hicks, grew up in the town I live in now. I know his sister.

metirish Mar 18 2011 12:31 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Fucks sake like a woman fires a gun in the air as people gather to celebrate passing of U.N. resolution

metsmarathon Mar 18 2011 01:10 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

thee bulleets!!!! y'know, i think we need to step up our game, and after every met win, fire off some semi-automatic rounds into the air. honestly, though, you're in an armed struggle against a larger, more organized, and better funded enemy. the last thing you need to to do is waste ammo all willy nilly.

Willets Point Mar 18 2011 01:13 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Maybe she's vying for for world shooting-in-the-air supremacy.

metirish Mar 18 2011 01:22 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Willets Point wrote: Maybe she's vying for for world shooting-in-the-air supremacy. lol.....I bet your one above is doing that Injun type screaming they do

metirish Mar 18 2011 01:30 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

An extraordinary opinion piece here by John Waters (columnist) in the Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opi ... 06317.html his assertion about Obama is a wow

Willets Point Mar 18 2011 01:32 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

The whole shooting-in-the-air thing is mystifying. What goes up must come down, right? I took of photo of this sign in Los Angeles a couple of years ago. Very disconcerting that they need to have a sign for this.

Willets Point Mar 18 2011 01:37 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

An extraordinary opinion piece here by John Waters (columnist) in the Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opi ... 06317.html his assertion about Obama is a wow I take it that it's not this guy doing the writing:

metirish Mar 18 2011 01:38 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Nah , it's the Irish John Waters, has a daughter with Sinead O'Connor

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 18 2011 02:08 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

metirish wrote: Willets Point wrote: Maybe she's vying for for world shooting-in-the-air supremacy. lol.....I bet your one above is doing that Injun type screaming they do I kinda wish I could ululate effectively sometimes. Ever see Battle of Algiers? That's some spooky sh*t, coming out of the gloaming on the morning of a "game day."

metirish Mar 18 2011 02:13 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Kinda like this one [youtube:3jxgc8l4]kZwhTvrwWcM[/youtube:3jxgc8l4]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 18 2011 02:24 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

metirish wrote: An extraordinary opinion piece here by John Waters (columnist) in the Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opi ... 06317.html his assertion about Obama is a wow "Wow" is the polite word for it. He has isolated islands of cogent, pointed thought-- Bush and Blair weren't Karadzic and shouldn't be treated as such, Obama's is a bit handcuffed by the liberal wing of his party and the shadow of Iraq-- surrounded by oceans of spurious, selective-memory bullshit. The Iraq war retrofit as some sort of intended clarion call that the West "was watching?" Libya and the broader morass of Middle East dictatorship as liberal guilt's bastard child? I mean... are you fucking kidding?

seawolf17 Mar 18 2011 02:31 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I love that every one of Irish's links is an Irish Times link, no matter what the topic.

Edgy MD Mar 20 2011 11:36 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Gadaffi seems to be letting the North Koreans rite his propaganda.

Edgy MD Mar 21 2011 08:16 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Journalists freed. One of them is a two-time hostage! New York (CNN) -- Four New York Times journalists who were reported captured by pro-government forces in Libya last week have been released, the newspaper reported Monday. They are in the Turkish Embassy in Tripoli, Turkey's ambassador to Libya, Levent Sahin Kaya, told CNN. The Times reported Monday that they were released into the custody of Turkish diplomats who were accompanying them out of Libya. The newspaper identified the journalists as Anthony Shadid, its bureau chief in Beirut, Lebanon, and a two-time Pulitzer winner for foreign reporting; Stephen Farrell, a reporter and videographer who was kidnapped by the Taliban and rescued by British commandos in 2009; Tyler Hicks, a staffer who is based in Istanbul and has served as an embedded journalist in Afghanistan; and photographer Lynsey Addario, who has covered the Middle East and Africa. In a statement Monday, the newspaper said: "We are grateful that our journalists have been released, and we are working to reunite them with their families. We have been told they are in good health and are in the process of confirming that. We thank the Turkish, British, and U.S. governments for their assistance in the release. We also appreciate the efforts of those in the Libyan government who helped secure the release this morning." The four journalists entered the rebel-controlled eastern region of Libya via the Egyptian border without visas to cover the civil war in the country, the Times said. They were detained sometime after Tuesday morning, the last time editors said they had been in touch with them. The paper said that after it reported losing contact, the Gadhafi government pledged that if the four had been detained by the government's military forces, they would be located and released unharmed.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 21 2011 08:46 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Cripes, Farrell. Head on a swivel. Seriously, though... I have a close friend from college who's been working for the AP in both Egypt and Libya (her stuff's made the Times and the IHT twice each, along with a few others). I've been caught between Jewish-mother-choking naches for her-- she's essentially big-m made her career in the last month-- and expectant terror. The way they treat journos and aid workers these days, everyone should carry a Frequent Kidnappee club card-- the least you deserve for being brutalized for taking pictures or handing out water purification kits is definitive, wallet-friendly war-story proof. (And/or maybe a free footlong sub, once you hit, say, five.)

metirish Mar 21 2011 08:54 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Who'd want to be US President?, the hawks on the right kill you because you aren't doing enough and taking the lead on Libya , the same people who were killing Europe as weenies a few years ago for not taking the lead in certain hotspots. Cornell West is relentless on twitter with Obama , a peace president fighting three wars in three muslin countries.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 21 2011 09:06 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

"Cornel West Doesn't Publish" -Fan sign at Princeton vs. Harvard one-game playoff

Edgy MD Mar 22 2011 02:53 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Anybody a touch disrupted that the president didn't get Congressional consent on this military engagement?

Willets Point Mar 22 2011 03:36 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: Anybody a touch disrupted that the president didn't get Congressional consent on this military engagement? He probably figured that Congress would slip in a riders to disband unions and require all women to wear chastity belts. In all seriousness, Denis Kucinich is leading the charges against this unconstitutional act.

Edgy MD Mar 22 2011 06:07 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Understood, but partisanship aside, is this something you'd like to see a war resolution on first? I know we're pretty inured to the presence of troop commitments in foreign theatres, but...

Nymr83 Mar 22 2011 06:09 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Willets Point wrote: Anybody a touch disrupted that the president didn't get Congressional consent on this military engagement? He probably figured that Congress would slip in a riders to disband unions and require all women to wear chastity belts. In all seriousness, Denis Kucinich is leading the charges against this unconstitutional act. A few random and somewhat disconnected thoughts: I think he has gone farther than any other president since the War Powers Act was passed in acting without the explicit permission of Congress. I'm not sure whether he has gone too far. I also think that his secretary of state is a hypocrit given that she voted as a member of the senate to give Bush far more "permission" on Iraq than Obama got here and then she tried to pretend she didn't. I think Obama and the Europeans waited far too long to act (from a policy perspective, not talking about getting Congressional approval here.) Talking through the U.N. is an absolute waste of time and effort. Countries like China shouldn't have any say in whether or not a free nation has the "authority" to help overthrow a dictator or prevent him from harming his people. Obama, Cameron, and Sarkozy should have consulted only with each other, within the structure of NATO. I could care less what those unwilling to help think.

Nymr83 Mar 22 2011 06:29 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Sorry, i couldn't type everything in my last post, there must be an issue with IE because I seem to keep having a problem where I can't see what i'm typing (the screen keeps trying to scroll up as I type.) The other thing i meant to say is that I feel Obama did the right thing, even if it may potentially have been unconstitutional. I still won't vote for him (I'm staying home if Palin is nominated though) but theres a difference sometimes between what i think is right and whats legal.

Edgy MD Mar 22 2011 07:12 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Well, I think we should have gotten a war act from Congress. I don't see how Hilary Clinton's war vote in 2002 is relevant here. I don't really want to review who everybody is against at the polling booth.

Willets Point Mar 22 2011 07:13 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: Understood, but partisanship aside, is this something you'd like to see a war resolution on first? Definitely. I'm just so fed up with Obama that I can only spew out sarcasm.

Nymr83 Mar 22 2011 09:53 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: Well, I think we should have gotten a war act from Congress. I don't see how Hilary Clinton's war vote in 2002 is relevant here. I don't really want to review who everybody is against at the polling booth. 1. I agree that Obama needed something from Congress, though I'm not sure if that something is the rather vague (and untested in court) War Powers Act. 2. I find Clinton's (as well as Obama's) flip-flop on the limits of the power the Executive Branch relevant, though I do note she is hardly the first former member of Congress in the Executive Branch to have such a "change of heart." 3. its not really about the polling booth, i really only wrote that to make the tiny font jab at Palin.

metirish Mar 23 2011 06:24 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

The thing in Libya seems disorganized or something, to me you are either all in or not at all. As an aside I would like to state for the record how disappointed I am in Obama the president.

TransMonk Mar 23 2011 07:08 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

metirish wrote: ...I would like to state for the record how disappointed I am in Obama the president. This.

Edgy MD Mar 23 2011 07:22 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

metirish wrote: The thing in Libya seems disorganized or something, to me you are either all in or not at all. As an aside I would like to state for the record how disappointed I am in Obama the president. Well, there seems to be the notion in our culture (see the Bosnian campaign) that an arial war isn't really a war. But of course it is. Virtually all the casuaties being on the other side doesn't not make it so. Apart from a Congressional war resolution, I'd like to see the president --- any president --- beginning a new military campaign cancel his foreign trips and stay home to make the case for military action to Congress and to the country. As terrible as war is, it's historically had the potential to be a political unifier. In this presidency and certainly the prior one, I think we hurt our efforts badly by going about business as usual on the homefront as if the overseas wars aren't happening. But the country is so divided that I'm pretty sure presidents feel that trying to rally the country behind the effort would only inflame the opposition. But avoiding that conflict isn't leadership. And if you're not willing to risk that confrontation, why should our servicemembers risk anything?

metirish Mar 23 2011 07:26 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: metirish wrote: The thing in Libya seems disorganized or something, to me you are either all in or not at all. As an aside I would like to state for the record how disappointed I am in Obama the president. Well, there seems to be the notion in our culture (see the Bosnian campaign) that an arial war isn't really a war. But of course it is. Virtually all the casuaties being on the other side doesn't not make it so. Apart from a Congressional war resolution, I'd like to see the president --- any president --- beginning a new military campaign cancel his foreign trips and stay home to make the case for military action to Congress and to the country. As terrible as war is, it's historically had the potential to be a political unifier. In this presidency and certainly the prior one, I think we hurt our efforts badly by going about business as usual on the homefront as if the overseas wars aren't happening. But the country is so divided that I'm pretty sure presidents feel that trying to rally the country behind the effort would only inflame the opposition. But avoiding that conflict isn't leadership. And if you're not willing to risk that confrontation, why should our servicemembers risk anything? this is what I feel but you had the words. One of my biggest disappointments with Obama is that while he is a great speaker he's not a great communicator , does that make sense?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 23 2011 09:23 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Speaks well, doesn't "listen" well? (The political version of "listening," that is.)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 23 2011 09:33 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I for one am really enjoying the third Bush term.

TransMonk Mar 23 2011 09:34 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I for one am really enjoying the third Bush term. this is what I feel but you had the words.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 23 2011 09:37 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

TransMonk wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I for one am really enjoying the third Bush term. this is what I feel but you had the words. I stole it from a friend.

metirish Mar 23 2011 09:39 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I for one am really enjoying the third Bush term. this is what I feel but you had the words. I stole it from a friend. Black Bush, has a certain twang to it.

Willets Point Mar 23 2011 09:39 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Chad Ochoseis Mar 24 2011 08:53 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I think it, Nick Kristof says it. The Constitutional war powers hurdle is a tough nut, but we've sent far more troops to "war" without Congressional authorization in support of far less defensible ends.

Edgy MD Mar 24 2011 09:06 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Kristof wrote: Some Congressional critics complain that President Obama should have consulted Congress more thoroughly. Fair enough. But remember that the intervention was almost too late because forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi were already in Benghazi. Indeed, there was a firefight on Sunday right outside the hotel in Benghazi where foreign journalists are staying. A couple of days of dutiful consultation would have resulted in a bloodbath and, perhaps, the collapse of the rebel government. [list=1][*]He had two weeks and didn't seek a resoultion, so the notion that it would have delayed action doesn't hold. We were the last into this coalition. He didn't pursue it, I gather, because he didn't expect he'd need it. The French forced our hands here. [/*:m] [*]He almost certainly would have had the votes. [/*:m] [*]I don't doubt that there are plenty of precedents, but I don't like them, and don't like how each successive precedent like this one further erodes Congressional authority.[/*:m][/list:o] Believe me, I have no stomache whatsoever for seeing this used as an angle for impeachment. I would rather hope that he seeks and gets a resolution retroactively.

Frayed Knot Mar 24 2011 10:11 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

So let me get this straight, we had time to wait for a U.N. resolution but not a vote from Congress? Ummmm, OK.

Edgy MD Mar 24 2011 10:20 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

The reason he didn't get Congressional approval in the end is because executives are loathe to aknowledge that they need it.

Frayed Knot Mar 24 2011 10:25 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Of course, which is why Kristof's excuse about time makes no sense.

metirish Mar 27 2011 11:28 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

This very topic talked about here http://www.slate.com/id/2289355/ The president's change is important but not politically motivated. Obama outlined a principle in 2007 about the relationship between the executive and the conduct of war. "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation," he wrote. As a teacher of constitutional law, he was not offering an idle opinion. As a relatively inexperienced candidate, he was holding forth on one topic on which he could claim expertise. Now that he's in office, and at a moment his supporters imagined would bring out his firmest convictions, he's changed his mind. This isn't just afternoon cable chatter. As a result of his reversal, there are bombs in the air and people in danger. bold is mine

Ashie62 Mar 27 2011 12:01 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I for one am really enjoying the third Bush term. More like first Obama term.

Nymr83 Mar 27 2011 09:40 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Ashie62 wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I for one am really enjoying the third Bush term. More like first Obama term. When it comes to foreign policy he's been alot closer to Bush than he said he would be on the campaign trail. Meanwhile, the Republicans in Congress have suddenly rediscovered the need for Congressional Approval that they last supported in the 1930's.

Ashie62 Mar 27 2011 10:29 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I think I have totally lost sight of exactly what American Foreign Poicy actually is since 9/11.

Nymr83 Mar 30 2011 08:50 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Ashie62 wrote: I think I have totally lost sight of exactly what American Foreign Poicy actually is since 9/11. Bush's policy was "if it moves shoot it", Democrats' policy during the Bush administration was "if Bush did it, we disagree with it." Obama's policy seems to be "do what Bush did, but tell everyone how sorry we are first" and Republicans' policy is "sure we supported this under Bush, but if Obama is doing it we don't want to pay for it."

Willets Point Mar 31 2011 07:42 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Nymr83 wrote: Democrats' policy during the Bush administration was "if Bush did it, we disagree with it." Not true, the Democrats gave a huge amount of support to enabling Bush's war crimes. Hillary Clinton was one of the biggest backers of invading Iraq, at least until it's inevitable failure.

Edgy MD May 01 2011 06:32 PM Libya

Needs its own thread. Here's my old classmate and teammate Oliver among a US delegation surrounded by Libyan rebels.

Edgy MD Jun 03 2011 09:04 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Yemen is, um, exploding.

Edgy MD Aug 21 2011 08:16 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Rebels pouring into Tripoli. Regime defenses are collapsing. Two of Gadhafi's sons reportedly in custody.

MFS62 Aug 24 2011 09:21 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I'm glad this is almost over and one more tyrant will bite the dust. Charles Grodin on WCBS Radio paraphrased (Yogi Berra?) the other day by saying "it ain't over 'till the dictator swings". Later

Edgy MD Aug 24 2011 09:39 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I'll take that on a baseball forum. Pretty embarrassing from a celebrity pundit on CNN though.

MFS62 Aug 24 2011 09:50 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Edgy DC wrote: I'll take that on a baseball forum. Pretty embarrassing from a celebrity pundit on CNN though. This is WCBS Radio in New York. Don't know if he is on CNN. He has a regular spot every day, and is more like a cutesy (in his own mind) Andy Rooney-ish observer of things. I'd give you some other examples, but nothing else I've heard him say is memorable. Later

Edgy MD Aug 24 2011 10:36 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Fair enough. I'm a poor read this late and misread the source. Sorry. But it's embarrassing for a liberal like Grodin to suddenly express a flip attitude about capital punishment, cutesiness or no.

MFS62 Aug 25 2011 07:07 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

I agree. Later

metirish Oct 20 2011 06:24 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Gaddafi is either captured and injured or dead.......reports are of course conflicting is such a breaking story again, not confirmed but that doesn't stop CNN

metirish Oct 20 2011 06:34 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

If you care to look in here is purports to show a cell phone image of Gaddaffi, graphic and grisly http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle- ... nrest-live

Edgy MD Oct 21 2011 08:01 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Suprisingly, the Colonel is the first Arab leader to actually perish in the Arab spring. We've got. Algeria Ruler: Abdelaziz Boutefika Status: Has yielded to calls for Democratic reforms. Smart guy! Bahrain Ruler: Royal family Status: Eh. The opposition is pissed, but these guys look like they'll survive. A lot of rich folks. Friends in Hollywood. Egypt Ruler: Mohammed Hosni Mubarak Status: Out of power and on trial. Libya Ruler: Moammar Gadhafi Status: Dead. Syria Ruler: Bashar Al-Assad Status: In power since 1970, cracking down on protests with vigor, and privately shitting his pants. Tunisia Ruler: Zine El-Abidine Bel Ali Status: Cooling his feet in exile in Saudi Arabia. Tried in absentia and sentenced to 35 years in prison. Yemen Ruler: Ali Abdulla Saleh Status: Under siege since January, injured in an attack in June --- can't be happy.

Vic Sage Jan 21 2012 09:31 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

The "Arab Spring" continues... as Egypt turns from a secular dictatorship into its first steps toward theocracy. http://news.yahoo.com/egypts-islamists- ... 39518.html gosh, who could have seen THIS coming?

Edgy MD Jan 22 2012 01:52 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

It could be worse. The international community was fearing the military more than the Muslim Brotherhood. The party that was clamoring for Sharia reforms only got 25% of the vote, and the MB won't be colalitioning with them. Meanwhile, Ali Abdulla Saleh gets the heck out of Yemen.

Edgy MD Feb 17 2012 07:38 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Times correspondent Anthony Shadid dies in Syria.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2012 07:55 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Survived, what, a gunshot wound and a kidnapping (am I missing something)? Dies... of an asthma attack.

Edgy MD Feb 17 2012 07:58 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Yeah, that guy was old school. What passes for journalism (partisanship + personality + volume) could learn a thing or two from him about courage + curiosity + doggedness.

TransMonk Feb 17 2012 04:01 PM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Shadid's death is getting a lot of press in my neck of the woods as he was a UW grad.

Edgy MD Feb 22 2012 11:59 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Two more Western reporters killed, along with multitudes of Syrians. Mercy, mercy.

Nymr83 Feb 23 2012 06:35 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

American journalist murdered by Assad's government http://m.nypost.com/p/news/internationa ... D3Jaol81nN

Lefty Specialist Feb 23 2012 11:10 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

Assad is going to get to do to his people the things Qaddafi wanted to do, but was prevented from doing by NATO.

Edgy MD Feb 23 2012 11:11 AM Re: Tunisia, Egypt, Qatar

He's doing it.