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Greatest Living Ballplayer

Frayed Knot Mar 17 2011 08:13 AM

I first remember hearing this phrase back around the time when MLB used the 100th anniversary of professional baseball (1969) to name an all-time team. Among the players on that fictional squad Joe DiMaggio was crowned as the best of the still-living variety, a title Joltin' Joe had the fan-base and the clout (not to mention the ego and the arrogance) to wear around his neck for the next four decades while insisting that he get introduced that way at each public appearance (and maybe private ones too, who knows?). Anyway many think Mays then assumed that title once DiMag assumed room temperature and Larry Granillo over at Baseball Prospectus not only agrees but doesn't even wait for the death of an earlier legend but hands it to Willie as soon as he hung up his spikes. And then he takes the project back a few steps - and by that I mean an entire century - and wonders who would have been MLB's GLP in any given era. The only real rule he insists on is that the phrase 'living player' assumes a retired and living player, something my father always claimed was implied in baseball's original 1969 list or else Mays would have ascended to the title while still wearing the uniform. Anyway, here is his list, one in which DiMaggio never leads: * 1901 - 1917: Cap Anson. The greatest ballplayer of the 19th century. Others who might sneak in here: Kid Nichols (starting in 1906), Cy Young (1911), and Nap Lajoie & Christy Mathewson (both 1916) * 1917 - 1928: Honus Wagner. Still everyone's favorite overlooked all-time great. The only other contender in this time frame is Walter Johnson, who retired in 1927. * 1928 - 1935: Ty Cobb. "Ty Cobb wanted to play, but none of us could stand the son-of-a-bitch when we were alive, so we told him to stick it!" No one doubted his status as the top player in the game, though. * 1935 - 1948: Babe Ruth. This is the first reign ended by the player's death (Anson and Wagner each gave way to the greater player while living). Never, ever any doubt that Ruth was the greatest while he was alive, though. * 1948 - 1961: Ty Cobb. There are many players who had retired by Ruth's death who might be considered here: Rogers Hornsby, Jimmie Foxx, Mel Ott, Arky Vaughan, Pete Alexander, Eddie Collins... None could supplant Cobb. * 1961 - 1968: Ted Williams. Cobb's death. And this is where things get dicey. Not only could we argue Joe DiMaggio (who retired in 1951 and who, late in life, had to be announced as "the greatest living ballplayer") and Williams here, we also have to deal with all the legends who retired in the 1960s: Stan Musial, Warren Spahn, Eddie Mathews. I think I'm sticking with Teddy Ballgame, though, until... * 1968 - 1973: Mickey Mantle. I almost had Teddy all the way through these years, but, in the end, Mantle has to take the top spot. Sometimes I think Mantle is so overrated he's underrated. Then again, I don't live in New York. * 1973 - today: Willie Mays. And then there's Willie, arguably the greatest player ever. As long as he's alive, the title is his. Only Barry Bonds has a case to take it away from him, but I'm not sure I'm ready to say that for sure. I like to have a bit of historical perspective. btw, this project started based on an article where someone selects his candidate as the greatest living player for each franchise.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2011 08:23 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

It would be nice to see that crown on, say, Oscar Charleston before or after Cobb, or maybe Josh Gibson would have inherited the crown from Ruth if he had outlived him. Not that these guys necessarily deserved it, but I hope they were considered. Walter Johnson was probably close but his career was right on top of Honus Wagner's. I think the case would be strong for Bonds if his legacy wasn't so clouded by the era. Very strong. But I'm just happy to see DiMaggio never really had the title at all. And that's about right. I also think Mantle probably shouldn't have displaced Williams.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 17 2011 08:28 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

I'm with Edgy on this one. Mantle over Williams? I don't see it.

MFS62 Mar 17 2011 08:52 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Edgy DC wrote: It would be nice to see that crown on, say, Oscar Charleston before or after Cobb, or maybe Josh Gibson would have inherited the crown from Ruth if he had outlived him. As I've posted before, My father (RIP) watched baseball from the early 1920's through the 1990s. And he told me that Josh Gibson was the best he ever saw. Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 17 2011 09:28 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

By team, this is no fun till Seaver goes, and that will kinda be a traumatic day for all of us, won't it? Kind of difficult going backward though 1986->> Seaver 1980-86: Kranepool 1977-1979: Cleon Jones 1974-1976: Tommie Agee 1972-1973: Clendennon? 1963-1972: Ashburn??

Valadius Mar 17 2011 09:30 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

For me, the honor seems to inevitably fall on the earliest-playing ballplayer in the discussion that's still living. Which, to my mind, makes the current holder of the honor Stan Musial.

seawolf17 Mar 17 2011 09:39 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Stan's in the discussion, but really... it's Willie.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2011 10:08 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Greatest Living Mets Through Time (A Title Initially Hard to Hold for More Than a Year) Through 1962: Frank Thomas Through 1963: Roger Craig Through 1964: Jim Hickman Through 1965: Al Jackson (!) Through 1966: Ron Hunt Through 1967-1968: Ed Kranepool Through 1969: Cleon Jones Through 1970 and Beyond: Tom Seaver That's a special little club. I had measured this before, but I hadn't remembered Jackson had held the title. Another long-term deal and Wright has every chance of wresting the crown from Seaver, keeping the tradition of it always passing from a living monarch. Seaver is currently the only player to retire a champ. Richie Ashburn would have, had he gotten into more games in 1962. But reallly... forty years on top. That's 83% of the franchise's history!

seawolf17 Mar 17 2011 10:12 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

That's why we call him "The Franchise." Duh.

TheOldMole Mar 17 2011 11:35 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Ted over Mickey any day of the week. There should be a Greatest Living Cy Young for pitchers. Which would obviously include Cy Young. And he lived till 1955.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2011 11:39 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

I think Johnson took the title from him. I couldn't rightly say for sure. I couldn't tell you with my brain who the greatest living pitcher is now. I know what my heart says.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 17 2011 11:41 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Sure we'd all like it to be Seaver, but I'd have to include Gibson and Koufax in that conversation.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2011 11:42 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Koufax, noufax, as his career was short. But Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson are another story.

TheOldMole Mar 17 2011 11:45 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Mathewson is my favorite, but Cy has the incredible numbers. Who took over in '55? Feller was past his peak. I'd say Warren Spahn, although he was past his peak, too, but not as over the hill as Feller.

metsmarathon Mar 17 2011 11:54 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

prolly clemens unless you discount his ped usage.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2011 11:56 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

The answer after 1955, and perhaps the answer right up until his death in 1976, is Lefty Grove, even not counting all those years he was held back at Baltimore. The main competition would probably be Satchel Paige. It's very easy to discount a chunk of Clemens' career happily.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 17 2011 11:59 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Cy was the greatest, if you mean that numerically. In terms of achievement-heights reached while atop the mound, and ability to maintain said heights over multiple seasons... guys like Walter Johnson, Mathewson, and Lefty Grove had it on Young in every which way possible. And hell, if you're talking short spurts of brilliance... Pedro's peak ('97-'03, cresting in '00) beat the crap out of all of these guys (Koufax included). He put up Koufax's numbers and better... in the DH league... at the height of the "Steroid Era."

seawolf17 Mar 17 2011 12:06 PM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Pedro's peak ('97-'03, cresting in '00) beat the crap out of all of these guys (Koufax included). He put up Koufax's numbers and better... in the DH league... at the height of the "Steroid Era." [sarcasm] Probably because of all the steroids he took. [/sarcasm]

metsmarathon Mar 17 2011 12:18 PM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

as near as i can tell... the list, per bref's WAR: [table:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]year[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]player[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]WAR[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1876[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]jim devlin[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]12.3[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1877[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]jim devlin[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]22.9[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1878[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]tommy bond[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]29.1[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1883[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]tommy bond[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]40.9[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1884[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]jim mccormick[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]51.7[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1887[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]jim mccormick[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]64.7[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1888[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]tim keefe[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]67.7[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1893[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]tim keefe[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]82.5[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1898[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]tim keefe[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]82.5[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1899[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]kid nichols[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]87.2[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1901[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]kid nichols[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]96.2[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1902[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]cy young[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]105.1[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1911[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]cy young[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]146[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1955[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]cy young[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]146[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1956[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]lefty grove[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]98.3[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1975[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]spahn[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]93.4[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1982[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]perry[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]95.1[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1984[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]seaver[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]98.1[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]1986[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]seaver[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]105.3[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]2001[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]clemens[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]105.6[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][tr:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]2007[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]clemens[/td:1258a8ho][td:1258a8ho]128.4[/td:1258a8ho][/tr:1258a8ho][/table:1258a8ho]

Edgy DC Mar 17 2011 12:36 PM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Are you seriously trying to tell me that for two years on this earth, Gaylord Perry was the WARriest pitcher alive?

Chad Ochoseis Mar 17 2011 12:41 PM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

Vaseline can be awfully slippery, but it kept Gaylord Perry stuck to baseball for 22 years. Stick around long enough, you get your WAR. Betcha Phil Niekro's pretty far up there, too.

metsmarathon Mar 17 2011 12:45 PM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

he was the winningest active pitcher, and all the winningier inactive guys were dead. that was kindof a fun exercise. i wish bbref had a tab available to show living leaders in stats. that would be a nice addition to career | single season | active | yearly

G-Fafif Mar 18 2011 04:32 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

2029- Ike Davis

seawolf17 Mar 18 2011 09:07 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

G-Fafif wrote: 2029- Ike Davis You're assuming that David Wright will die young.

G-Fafif Mar 18 2011 10:02 AM Re: Greatest Living Ballplayer

seawolf17 wrote: G-Fafif wrote: 2029- Ike Davis You're assuming that David Wright will die young. Nah, I just got the hots for Ike. Baseball hots, that is.