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The Collins Shuffle

metirish Apr 02 2011 08:28 PM

[youtube:3uaxsyc1]vrxnolOf1Z0[/youtube:3uaxsyc1] made some moves tonight that were positive looking going forward...likes to use his bench which I like. Going to be very interested to see how he uses his pitching as the season progresses.

metirish Apr 04 2011 07:03 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Hows about pinch running for Ike with Hu and then using Murphy at 1st base? I don't mind it and I suppose Collins get bit in the ass if Murphy doesn't make a routine play at the bag....whatever , I like what I'm seeing so far from the skipper. I liked too that he seemed really genuinely happy to get his first win and first series win.

The Second Spitter Apr 04 2011 07:08 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Wasn't 1B Murphy's best position in the minors?

Ceetar Apr 04 2011 07:09 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

metirish wrote: Hows about pinch running for Ike with Hu and then using Murphy at 1st base? I don't mind it and I suppose Collins get bit in the ass if Murphy doesn't make a routine play at the bag....whatever , I like what I'm seeing so far from the skipper. I liked too that he seemed really genuinely happy to get his first win and first series win. No manager will be perfect, or do things the way I think they need to be done. I just hope he realizes what does and doesn't work as the season goes on and is willing to adjust. (Murphy's best position was third, he didn't play first in the minors much/atall)

Frayed Knot Apr 04 2011 07:34 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

I thought about pinch-running for Ike before Collins called for it but had rejected the idea just a second prior to seeing Hu trot out there. That said, I don't think it was a huge deal either way. Ike is the better fielder but Muffy more than held his own while he was there in '09 and there's probably at least as good a chance that the difference in speed makes up for the fielding gap (although I'm unsure at this point how fast Hu is). So far my only major complaint was when he had Pagan bunting in game 2. Even though the result worked out in our favor in the end I saw that less as brilliant strategy and more as luck.

Gwreck Apr 04 2011 07:41 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

*Duplicate post

Edgy DC Apr 04 2011 08:01 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Ceetar wrote: metirish wrote: Hows about pinch running for Ike with Hu and then using Murphy at 1st base? I don't mind it and I suppose Collins get bit in the ass if Murphy doesn't make a routine play at the bag....whatever , I like what I'm seeing so far from the skipper. I liked too that he seemed really genuinely happy to get his first win and first series win. No manager will be perfect, or do things the way I think they need to be done. I just hope he realizes what does and doesn't work as the season goes on and is willing to adjust. (Murphy's best position was third, he didn't play first in the minors much/atall) But he's played plenty now, and done fine. Virtually all thirdbasemen, given a little time, can be just as good at first. I haven't seen anything to lead me to the conclusion that firstbaseman Murphy should be pulled in favor Davis in late-and-close situations.

metirish Apr 04 2011 08:10 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Funny because Cohen made it a point to note when talking about the substitutions and where they were slotting it....Hu's glove at second...Mets lose at first with Murphy....he said something a long that line which is one reason I brought it up , it stuck with me.

Ceetar Apr 04 2011 08:13 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: metirish wrote: Hows about pinch running for Ike with Hu and then using Murphy at 1st base? I don't mind it and I suppose Collins get bit in the ass if Murphy doesn't make a routine play at the bag....whatever , I like what I'm seeing so far from the skipper. I liked too that he seemed really genuinely happy to get his first win and first series win. No manager will be perfect, or do things the way I think they need to be done. I just hope he realizes what does and doesn't work as the season goes on and is willing to adjust. (Murphy's best position was third, he didn't play first in the minors much/atall) But he's played plenty now, and done fine. Virtually all thirdbasemen, given a little time, can be just as good at first. I haven't seen anything to lead me to the conclusion that firstbaseman Murphy should be pulled in favor Davis in late-and-close situations. I happen to think Ike makes that play on the shot along the line that blew the save,(Actually, Ike has been playing a little sloppily, making a couple of simple errors) additionally, I'm not sure I would've had him playing in either. I get holding the go ahead run on I suppose, but with two outs.. No, Murphy's fine at first, and he'll have to be if he's gonna be a catch-all utility guy. I just meant he's only really had 100 or so games there.

Edgy DC Apr 04 2011 08:19 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Gary once thought more of Murphy at first.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 04 2011 08:26 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Edgy DC wrote: But he's played plenty now, and done fine. Virtually all thirdbasemen, given a little time, can be just as good at first. I haven't seen anything to lead me to the conclusion that firstbaseman Murphy should be pulled in favor Davis in late-and-close situations. Well, to be fair... I can see a couple of reasons why you'd yank DM for Ike close-and-late; he's not only better defensively, but a bigger power threat, and he's demonstrated more patience/ability to work a count, to boot. THAT said... far too much time has been spent on this eminently-reasonable and -defensible substitution, and not enough on THE FUCKING SAC BUNTING. AGAIN.

metirish Apr 04 2011 08:29 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

This is the place for it LWFS......have at it on the sac bunt...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 04 2011 08:34 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

JOSE REYES STEALS SIXTY BASES A YEAR WHEN HEALTHY, AND PAGAN MIGHT BE THE SECOND-BEST OFFENSIVE PLAYER ON THE TEAM, AND YOU'RE FUCKING GIVING AWAY OUTS WHEN THE TEAM'S DEMONSTRATED LITTLE-TO-NO-ABILITY TO CONSERVE THEM OTHERWISE! WHY DON'T YOU JUST PUT HU IN FOR DAVIS WITH A GUY ON FIRST AND BUNT THEN! IT'S THREE GAMES IN, AND I'M LISTENING TO THE GAME ON RADIO, AND I'M ALREADY BEGGING FOR AN ANEURYSM!FUCK YOU AND YOUR RALLY-KILLING "ENTHUSIASM," WHITE JERRY! THE MARLINS GAVE YOU THAT WIN, ASSHOLE! THEY GAVE IT TO YOU FIVE TIMES! AAAUGH! AAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH! Okay, I think I'm good.

Edgy DC Apr 04 2011 08:45 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

I like that you compare him to Jerry. Willie is too associated with bunting, relative to Jerry. Jerry is sitting in his chair right now wondering if things might have been different with the Mets if he worked the bunting game a little better.

metirish Apr 04 2011 08:47 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

One bunt does not make a cunt .

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 04 2011 09:01 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Edgy DC wrote: I like that you compare him to Jerry. Willie is too associated with bunting, relative to Jerry. Jerry is sititng in his chair right now wondering if things might have been different with the Mets if he worked the bunting game a little better. F'real. Willie bunted in places where, if you made the logical leap that bunting helps you score one run, it kinda made sense (like how, if you buy the one gigantic leap that the brain injury in Memento actually exists, that movie works realistically otherwise). Jerry? He'd pinch-hit to bunt for one run when down three, with Beltran coming up. And I know it's early yet, Irish. But that wasn't the only bunt; t'was merely the cuntiest. (I am tentatively okay with the rest of his stewardship, though a little part of me wishes he'd go a little further with creative bullpen management... like, say, leaving demi-longman Carrasco in to bat/finish the game after he got that big strikeout.)

batmagadanleadoff Apr 04 2011 09:16 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Willie was as bad a bunt manager as I ever saw. I'm not defending Manuel because he turned out to be another Bozo in a long line of Mets clown managers but Jerry went all of 2008 (partial season, granted) without bunting (not literally), whereas Willie couldn't go one game without it. In two different games, Willie Randolph called for the sac bunt in the top of the first with a man on second and nobody out. In Denver. The runner on second was fast enough to score from second without the ball leaving the infield. Top that.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 04 2011 09:24 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Top that. Top that? I can try (with a little memory jogging from BP) Jerry has Castillo sac bunting against the Cards left fielder turned reliever in last year's 20 inning marathon, after the Mets leadoff batter reached on four straight pitches that didn't even sniff the strike zone. As of last April, Castillo was still considered to be one of the likeliest Mets not to make an out.

G-Fafif Apr 04 2011 09:27 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

metirish wrote: One bunt does not make a cunt . If only New Hampshire's license plates were a little wider, "Live Free Or Die" would be getting replaced right now.

Edgy DC Apr 04 2011 09:38 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Jerry had real hitters bunting against fake pitchers twice in that game. He also bunted with Mike Jacobs to get Angel Pagan over in the 16th against righthanded meatball specialist Brandon Hawksworth.

Ceetar Apr 04 2011 09:41 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Edgy DC wrote: Jerry had real hitters bunting against fake pitchers twice in that game. He also bunted with Mike Jacobs to get Angel Pagan over in the 16th against righthanded meatball specialist Brandon Hawksworth. Mike Jacobs is a real hitter?

Edgy DC Apr 04 2011 09:42 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

That was a third case and not one of the original two I'm citing.

Vic Sage Apr 04 2011 10:28 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

i don't see a need in deciding which was a bigger bunting douche between Wee Willie Small Balls and Jerry "the BuntCunt" Manuel. Lets agree they both sucked. what concerns me is we may have a new member of that sorority on our hands. BIFL, Terry!

batmagadanleadoff Apr 04 2011 10:37 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Vic Sage wrote: i don't see a need in deciding which was a bigger bunting douche between Wee Willie Small Balls and Jerry "the BuntCunt" Manuel. Lets agree they both sucked. what concerns me is we may have a new member of that sorority on our hands. BIFL, Terry! Which you'd think impossible given the guys that now occupy the front office.

soupcan Apr 04 2011 11:26 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Vic Sage wrote: Jerry "the BuntCunt" Manuel. Goooood Morning!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 04 2011 11:32 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

I hope the resemblance doesn't last, but "White Jerry" is a hilarious nickname.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 04 2011 11:40 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Thanks. I was going back and forth between that and "Dry Tony."

soupcan Apr 04 2011 12:08 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

I think 'BuntCunt' is going to be my new user name. Got to find an appropriate avatar...

Bunt the First Two Apr 04 2011 12:35 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

I'll be damned if I can think of where you'll find one of those.

Vic Sage Apr 04 2011 01:42 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

BUNTCUNT (TM)* *all rights reserved, BigVicRadDock, Inc.

soupcan Apr 04 2011 02:50 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Vic Sage wrote: BUNTCUNT (TM)* *all rights reserved, BigVicRadDock, Inc. Damn!

G-Fafif Apr 05 2011 09:29 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Collins the Communictor > Manuel the Mute, according to Martino in the Snooze: Beyond that, those wounded last year by Jerry Manuel's lapses in communication have appreciated Collins' clarity. Manuel had a habit of surprising players by first criticizing them to reporters. One incident came last April in Denver, after John Maine surrendered eight runs in a game against the Rockies. Before speaking with Maine, Manuel told reporters that the righty's rotation spot was in jeopardy. Maine has long since left in a huff, but others remain from last year's mess. "It got so weird in here by August," said one player. "It's so much better now." It's a fair point, and an encouraging one, but if Maine was giving up eight runs in one game, he had bigger worries than what Jerry Manuel was or was not saying.

Edgy DC Apr 05 2011 09:35 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Yeah, I got the idea that Manuel had grown aloof from the team also. Bunting aside, it was definitely a tenure begging to end.

metirish Apr 05 2011 09:35 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

It's funny though because I remember Manuel being lauded for being the great communicator after "Willie the mute ".

Ceetar Apr 05 2011 09:44 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

metirish wrote: It's funny though because I remember Manuel being lauded for being the great communicator after "Willie the mute ". I remember that as well. Everythings rosy early on, lets see how Collins is in August.

G-Fafif Apr 05 2011 09:48 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

"_________ is a breath of fresh air, a real departure from _________." Make several copies and keep handy. It's a phrase that never loses its viability.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 05 2011 10:06 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

"It got so weird in here by August," said one player. "It's so much better now." I'm not necessarily defending Jerry but by August, if not earlier, Manuel was a lame duck manager and everybody knew it. I'd bet even Jerry knew it.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 05 2011 11:46 AM Re: The Collins Shuffle

batmagadanleadoff wrote: "It got so weird in here by August," said one player. "It's so much better now." I'm not necessarily defending Jerry but by August, if not earlier, Manuel was a lame duck manager and everybody knew it. I'd bet even Jerry knew it. "I didn't help. Trust me."

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 05 2011 12:27 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

I would have fired Jerry last May. And in hindsight I'd have never, ever, ever hired him. I find myself considering whether having lost that 20-inning debacle would have been enough to get it done. It prolly would have made the remainder of 2010 more interesting that it turned out to be.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 05 2011 12:29 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

The Mets had those two eight-game winning streaks last year. If not for those, Jerry probably wouldn't have survived the season. As I recall, he was really on the ropes before the first of the two.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 05 2011 12:31 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Yeah, the 1st one came right after that debacle in fact.

Edgy DC Apr 05 2011 12:39 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

In retrospect, though, with a lame-o duck-o GM and a team in (mostly private at this point) financial straits and probably already negotiating with the league to take on a recommended steward, they would have had to hire an interim for the rest of the year --- Hale or Oberkfell probably. An and interim 25% of the way into the season... makes for a long season and a hard sell. They may have even would have had to have gone with Ricco or Krivsky as an interim GM. I imagine they decided early to cut ties at the end of the season, riding out the long remainder, and giving the appearance of commiment to and engagement with their management team. Which all probably got to Jerry as the season wore on and further contributed to his aloofness.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 05 2011 12:45 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

Remember, they did a lot of winning in June, and as they headed to Puerto Rico for that series with the Marlins, they were riding fairly high and were definitely in the race. It wasn't until a few weeks later, when July fizzled, that it was clear they weren't going anywhere, and there was probably little point to firing Jerry and doing the interim thing with just two months left in a lost season.

Edgy DC Apr 05 2011 12:50 PM Re: The Collins Shuffle

If I hadn't already cut him loose by then, I certainly would have had no compunctions about going the interim route down the stretch.