Master Index of Archived Threads


IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Centerfield Apr 06 2011 07:23 AM

Your first place Mets take on the lowly Phils.* *Yes, technically the Phils are tied with the Mets for first place, but the Mets win the head-to-head matchup giving them the tiebreaker.** **Yes, technically there is no such tiebreaking system for head-to-head matchups in baseball, but it does exist in other sports, and last time I checked, baseball is a sport.

Ceetar Apr 06 2011 07:29 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Actually, that's not true. If the season ended right this moment, The Mets would be awarded the division, and the Phillies the Wild Card, because of their record against each other. The 6 month layoff until the Playoffs might be rough though.

The Second Spitter Apr 06 2011 07:43 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

According to me, Scott Hairston may start in place of Carlitos. OE: With Willie Harris in RF.

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 07:49 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Ceetar wrote: Actually, that's not true. If the season ended right this moment, The Mets would be awarded the division, and the Phillies the Wild Card, because of their record against each other. It would be pretty strange if the season ended today. But IF IT DID, the Mets and Phillies would play a one-game playoff for the division, with the loser being in a 6-way tie for the Wildcard.

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 07:49 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

The Second Spitter wrote: According to me, Scott Hairston may start in place of Carlitos. Previous reports had Collins noting that Beltran would rest on Thursday afternoon rather than tonight.

The Second Spitter Apr 06 2011 07:54 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Gwreck wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: According to me, Scott Hairston may start in place of Carlitos. Previous reports had Collins noting that Beltran would rest on Thursday afternoon rather than tonight. Oh, ok. Harris and Hairston both excellent records against Blanton especially Willie (15PA, 1.243OPS). Beltran otoh has a lifetime .343 OPS.

Ceetar Apr 06 2011 07:58 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

The Second Spitter wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: According to me, Scott Hairston may start in place of Carlitos. Previous reports had Collins noting that Beltran would rest on Thursday afternoon rather than tonight. Oh, ok. Harris and Hairston both excellent records against Blanton especially Willie (15PA, 1.243OPS). Beltran otoh has a lifetime .343 OPS. Additionally, Beltran has good numbers against Halladay, Thursday's starter, and you can't rest him Friday. I'd rest him today. I'd toy with the idea of 4 straight, rest Saturday, but no reason to 'push' him early. I'd rest him today, Sunday (even though I plan to be there) and next Thursday, getaway day, and then play all three in Atlanta.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 06 2011 09:16 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

The Second Spitter wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: According to me, Scott Hairston may start in place of Carlitos. Previous reports had Collins noting that Beltran would rest on Thursday afternoon rather than tonight. Oh, ok. Harris and Hairston both excellent records against Blanton especially Willie (15PA, 1.243OPS). Beltran otoh has a lifetime .343 OPS. It's best not to overthink matchups at this point. It's four games in, and two days after an off-day (not to mention a leisurely Sunday). Beltran should be fine.

bmfc1 Apr 06 2011 12:06 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

METS: Reyes-SS Harris-LF Wright-3B Beltran-RF Pagan-CF Davis-1B Emaus-2B Thole-C Pelfrey-RHP Phillies: Victorino CF Polanco 3B Rollins SS Howard 1B Ibanez LF Francisco RF Orr 2B Schneider C Blanton P

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 05:42 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

We're off to a really ugly start courtesy Pelfrey's bad pitching and inexcusably poor defense.

metirish Apr 06 2011 05:49 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Pelfrey looking like shite

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 05:50 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I've seen enough. Time for some bullpen, Terry.

Centerfield Apr 06 2011 05:50 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Pelf not looking particularly acely.

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 05:52 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Centerfield wrote: Pelf not looking particularly like a major league pitcher. Fixed it for you.

metirish Apr 06 2011 05:55 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Gwreck wrote: I've seen enough. Time for some bullpen, Terry. yeah really , down 4-0 , no outs and just walked the guy, two on now and nearly fifty pitches in the third.

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 05:57 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Looking like a bunch of little leaguers.

G-Fafif Apr 06 2011 06:03 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Somebody please get on a chair (unless it's Chris Young) and whisper in Pelf's ear, "You're not the ace. You're just another starter among five." Less pressure, I believe, equals a sounder Pelf. Two more starts of this caliber and that trip everybody asked Ollie to take last summer will be offered by popular insistence to Mike.

metirish Apr 06 2011 06:09 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Next thing you know they'll be skipping him against the Phillies , in fact let's skip him against the rest of the NL East.... 7-0 now

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:16 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Angel Time

G-Fafif Apr 06 2011 06:16 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Angel Pagan doesn't know the meaning of the word Pelf. [youtube:12te1ehw]63CiRbiaoFo[/youtube:12te1ehw]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:18 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Gwreck wrote: We're off to a really ugly start courtesy Pelfrey's bad pitching and inexcusably poor defense. The O let us down in the 1st too, we got away with that in the 1st last night but can't let it become a habit. Radio guys were speculating that Pelfrey was confused by calls from Thole to let it drop, then he didn;t know what to do. No excuse for a brain fart of course.

TransMonk Apr 06 2011 06:21 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I think this is the year that "potential" has to be replaced with reality in terms of Pelf.

Ceetar Apr 06 2011 06:24 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Gwreck wrote: We're off to a really ugly start courtesy Pelfrey's bad pitching and inexcusably poor defense. The O let us down in the 1st too, we got away with that in the 1st last night but can't let it become a habit. Radio guys were speculating that Pelfrey was confused by calls from Thole to let it drop, then he didn;t know what to do. No excuse for a brain fart of course. Regardless, that has t obe on Pelf, and the 'infield' coach or whatever. As Ron pointed out, you ALWAYS go to second in that case. worst case is no DB and pitcher on first running the bases.

metirish Apr 06 2011 06:27 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Dave Hudgens sounds like he knows what he's talking about..

Ceetar Apr 06 2011 06:28 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

metirish wrote: Dave Hudgens sounds like he knows what he's talking about.. Which is nice, but I'd kinda rather hear from Warthen at this juncture.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:30 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Unlucky hit by Blanton but good relief outing by Buchholz, still time to get back in this thing!

Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2011 06:32 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Maybe Pelfrey is having his July in April this year.

Ceetar Apr 06 2011 06:33 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Maybe Pelfrey is having his July in April this year. if he has his April in September, I'll live with it.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:36 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Here we go Daybidrye.

metirish Apr 06 2011 06:36 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

RBI single by Wright , 7-3 now with two men on and one out......rolling rolling rolling

metirish Apr 06 2011 06:37 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

RBI single by Beltran...

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:37 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Yup. 7-4, let's keep it going

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 06:37 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Rally time!

metirish Apr 06 2011 06:38 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Pagan with a hit , bases jacked for Davis....

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:38 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

This would the the right time for an xtra base hit

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:38 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: This would the the right time for an xtra base hit Yes I said that

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 06:39 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

...got to keep it rolling...

Fman99 Apr 06 2011 06:39 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I'm rockin the inside out cap up here!

metirish Apr 06 2011 06:39 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

shit , I just frightened my son screaming so loud when Davis for the hit.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 06 2011 06:40 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

In the office, and I just yelled & started clapping at the Yahoo play-by-play thing. D0rK here. Go Mets.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:41 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I fuckin love this Emouse

G-Fafif Apr 06 2011 06:42 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Let's get this thing completely unPelfed.

Edgy DC Apr 06 2011 06:42 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

This is so awesome I want to drink it. They're bringing in Tony Nobodison.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:44 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

cmon Thole let's kill this Bastard-o

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:45 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Ruff nite at plate for Thole but Muffy!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 06:46 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Now's the time to put one over the fence

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 06:46 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Rolling, rolling, rolling... got to keep it rolling ...

Kong76 Apr 06 2011 06:46 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Mets score a touchdown to tie!

G-Fafif Apr 06 2011 06:47 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Kong76 wrote: Mets score a touchdown to tie! Fuck the Eagles!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 06 2011 06:49 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Damn your lead feet, Iker. But praise be for them scrappy bats. Was driving for the first 4 1/2, and just got home. You have no idea how many times I nearly rear-ended somebody.

Edgy DC Apr 06 2011 06:51 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Not to be too selfish, but a grand slam would have been nice too.

TransMonk Apr 06 2011 06:53 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I like rallies. One of my favorite things in life.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 06 2011 06:54 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

GASP! I had wandered away, and just rechecked the score. Nice!

Edgy DC Apr 06 2011 06:54 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Yeah, a Metload of hits in many ways beats the big fly.

TransMonk Apr 06 2011 06:56 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

That was a pretty cheap Philly run.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 06 2011 07:02 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 06 2011 07:03 PM

And another. Fart.

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 07:02 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Lucky bastards

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 07:03 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Lucky bastards

TransMonk Apr 06 2011 07:03 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I like what Boyer had in that inning against some pretty nasty hitters. He got nickeled and dimed.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 06 2011 07:04 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

'Ryan Howard singled to pitcher'. How'd that go down yall?

A Boy Named Seo Apr 06 2011 07:06 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

PS - did the font here change, or did I do something on my end?

metsmarathon Apr 06 2011 07:06 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

howard hits ball to pitcher. ball caroms off pitchers glove towards shallow second base. but second baseman is playing deep, and has to scurry in to get to the ball. he picks it up from a near-standstill just after howard makes it to the bag, and fires home just late on polanco.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 07:07 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Boyer + Buchholz pitched well. Lineup in the meantime can do some damage minus the easy outs, huh?

G-Fafif Apr 06 2011 07:13 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

NY field goal = 10-9 = Mets win the damn thing!

G-Fafif Apr 06 2011 07:14 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Or we tie, go into overtime and...

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 06 2011 07:16 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Radio on. Wayne Hagin still sounds to me like he's choking back a snicker when the opposing team hits a home run.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 06 2011 07:17 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

metsmarathon wrote: howard hits ball to pitcher. ball caroms off pitchers glove towards shallow second base. but second baseman is playing deep, and has to scurry in to get to the ball. he picks it up from a near-standstill just after howard makes it to the bag, and fires home just late on polanco. Thanks.

Edgy DC Apr 06 2011 07:25 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Boo on the givebacks. The Mets and fate are teaming up to punish me for my overdemanding ways.

Edgy DC Apr 06 2011 07:38 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

C'mon, you Mets. C'mon, you Pool.

TransMonk Apr 06 2011 07:42 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

L=#FF8000]et'=#FF8000]s G=#FF8000]o M=#FF8000]et=#FF8000]s!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 06 2011 07:43 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Sigh. Letting Beato pitch the 8th-- and saving Frankie for later heroics-- would've worked as well or better. Spare the 'Rod Tuesday, spoil the 'Pool, I guess.

Gwreck Apr 06 2011 07:49 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Sigh. Letting Beato pitch the 8th-- and saving Frankie for later heroics-- would've worked as well or better. Spare the 'Rod Tuesday, spoil the 'Pool, I guess. Pitcher's spot in the order came up.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 07:50 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Let's go here. Heart of the order yo

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 07:54 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Keith: 2 hands on the tool

TransMonk Apr 06 2011 07:58 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Well, the boys put up a heck of a fight on a game that I had almost given up on as a loss in the 3rd. The O left some runs out there, the D let some runs up and Pelfrey just ain't right. In the end, their bullpen was just a bit better than ours tonight...and their lineup was a little luckier.

Edgy DC Apr 06 2011 08:00 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Deep sigh.

G-Fafif Apr 06 2011 08:00 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Yeah, well, they're still from Philadelphia. Winning doesn't change that.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 06 2011 08:13 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Win or not, the shame is with them for blowing a 7-0 lead at home. And they definitely were luckier than us tonight too. Just gotta take the rubba game against Dick Halladay is all.

Edgy DC Apr 06 2011 08:38 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

What's on the Mets is sorting out if their top starter is ineffective thus far because he's not on his game or because they're kidding themselves that he's their top starter.

MFS62 Apr 06 2011 09:18 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Calling Doctor Lans. Doctor Alan Lans. Mike Pelfrey's personal sports shrink died. Mike needs a replacement. Please report to the Mets clubhouse. STAT! Later

G-Fafif Apr 06 2011 09:20 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Was just doing some research on "all" and it turns you can't win 'em. At least that's what my sports psychologist says.

Ceetar Apr 07 2011 05:24 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Edgy DC wrote: What's on the Mets is sorting out if their top starter is ineffective thus far because he's not on his game or because they're kidding themselves that he's their top starter. This is the boon of not having an ace but having a lot of good pitchers. there is no top starter. there is no 'must win' guy where the team struggles to score runs for cause 'he got this'. If the pressure is bothering Pelfrey, and not just two bad starts of him figuring stuff out, someoen needs to tell him he's simply one of five, not the front of the line.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2011 05:38 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I don't mean to suggest that the pressure is getting to him. I mean to suggest that a man without a punchout pitch is always going to have trouble finding sustained success, and is going to have to do a lot of hard work to find the success he can find. I'm suggesting that if he doesn't find one, maybe he isn't that good. And maybe the team will be looking for two years trying to get a run out of him like they got at the start of 2010, but looking in vain. It's not psychological, it just is. I'll resubmit my suggeston that Pelfrey try the high hard one with two strikes more, but I honestly don't know.

Ceetar Apr 07 2011 05:47 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Edgy DC wrote: I don't mean to suggest that the pressure is getting to him. I mean to suggest that a man without a punchout pitch is always going to have trouble finding sustained success, and is going to have to do a lot of hard work to find the success he can find. I'm suggesting that if he doesn't find one, maybe he isn't that good. And maybe the team will be looking for two years trying to get a run out of him like they got at the start of 2010, but looking in vain. It's not psychological, it just is. I'll resubmit my suggeston that Pelfrey try the high hard one with two strikes more, but I honestly don't know. I wasn't suggesting it was either, just that if it is, someone should step up and tell him to knock it off. Yesterday seemed different. strikeout pitcher or not (And I agree with your suggestion) he should be able to battle and be competitive. Everyone was hit hard. It wasn't "oops, couldn't put him away and he pounded a single, or the ball just found all the holes today" Pelfrey, when his pitches are working, doesn't give up home runs (or much fly balls) the Mets have a good defense, and if his ball is sinking, there is little reason they shouldn't be in every game he pitches aside from errors in the field adding even more runners. But he needs to know what to do when he's not getting the sink he likes, whatever he tried last night wasn't tricking anyone.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2011 06:09 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

A Bronx rainout keeps the possiblity of triple disappointment away.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 07 2011 06:29 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I'm a bit concerned over the recent revelation that Pelfrey's shoulder gave him consistent trouble last year, so much so that he was regularly injected with a heavy-duty strain of advil. I know nobody wants to suggest spring training means much but he pitched like shit then too, making this more than just a few bad innings. He definitely needs a swing-and-miss pitch, hitters apparently know the book on him by heart.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 07 2011 06:39 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Ceetar wrote: This is the boon of not having an ace but having a lot of good pitchers. there is no top starter. Ceetar always finds a way to make lemonade.

Ceetar Apr 07 2011 06:44 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm a bit concerned over the recent revelation that Pelfrey's shoulder gave him consistent trouble last year, so much so that he was regularly injected with a heavy-duty strain of advil. I know nobody wants to suggest spring training means much but he pitched like shit then too, making this more than just a few bad innings. He definitely needs a swing-and-miss pitch, hitters apparently know the book on him by heart. Spring Training still means nothing. pitched crappy last year, but then only allowed 2 runs in April. But I wonder if there is a subtle difference in arm slot or something because on pitching with pain. I know Santana mentioned that last year, that his pitching with pain in late 2009 effected his 2010 start because he was out of sync a little. Anyway, while 2 starts isn't enough to panic over, the next start becomes important. but it's also at home, which should help. These concerns about Ks have been concerns for years, so I still expect him to have a similar year to last year.

Ceetar Apr 07 2011 06:50 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ceetar wrote: This is the boon of not having an ace but having a lot of good pitchers. there is no top starter. Ceetar always finds a way to make lemonade. Nah, this isn't lemonade. This is merely pointing out that it's not our best fruit that's sour, only 20% of it or so. I never liked that analogy anyway. I LIKE lemons. I like sour. What's wrong with sour?

Edgy DC Apr 07 2011 07:09 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Ceetar wrote: These concerns about Ks have been concerns for years, so I still expect him to have a similar year to last year. And the greater concern of a career ERA of 4.41 --- his great first half last year included --- leads one to return to it.

TransMonk Apr 07 2011 07:12 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Per Metsblog: According to David Waldstein of the New York Times, “After he was done pitching, Blaine Boyer went into the clubhouse and, in an act born more of pragmatism than anger, shaved off his beard, leaving just a small goatee.”

Frayed Knot Apr 07 2011 07:14 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

According to David Waldstein of the New York Times, “After he was done pitching, Blaine Boyer went into the clubhouse and, in an act born more of pragmatism than anger, shaved off his beard, leaving just a small goatee.” An act which I'm going to assume left several birds suddenly homeless.

Ceetar Apr 07 2011 07:14 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: These concerns about Ks have been concerns for years, so I still expect him to have a similar year to last year. And the greater concern of a career ERA of 4.41 --- his great first half last year included --- leads one to return to it. You could say inflated by being promoted a bit early, but I'm more concerned with his road splits than a career ERA. Pelfrey would actually be a legitimate Ace if he developed a good out pitch that he could trust and raised his K/9 rate to over 7. At this though, i'm not holding my breath. Especially with Warthen, who at least did teach him another pitch last year, but apparently either not one that gets Ks, or now how to use it to get them.

Ceetar Apr 07 2011 07:15 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I didn't think Boyer pitched that badly. not good, but Victorino got a dumb luck double, and that deflection off of Boyer for a run was pretty much placed in the perfect spot to get no outs.

metirish Apr 07 2011 07:16 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Well , it was entertaining to say the least , this game had it all , poor pitching, poor defense , good pitching , big comeback , everything except the win.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 07 2011 07:40 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Tracksuit's game recount this morning suggested some issues with pitch-calling from Thole. He noted Pelf got beat on curves early despite him feeling he had a good splitter. Thole says that mixing it up was successful in spring training (really?) and didn't want the hitters sitting on his fastball. Also, that Pelf prefers to take signs as opposed to shaking off. Pelf obviously lost it on the bunt play when he f'ed up Thole's directions, hard not to draw a dotted line to frustration with pitch-calling also.

metirish Apr 07 2011 07:47 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

One thing Cohen noted about Pelfrey was that he seemed to have a completely different game plan than his first start , that's not all on Thole. I'm not buying that angle too much anyways ,Pelfrey has been around long enough that if he's not comfortable with what Thole is calling then he tells him...am I right?

Edgy DC Apr 07 2011 07:50 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

The Mets have had green catchers before. Like with Mike Fitzgerald. What they need is for Keith Hernandez to take the elevator down from the press level and walk under the councurse to the gate and over to the mound in game situations to discuss pitch sequences.

Ceetar Apr 07 2011 07:57 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Edgy DC wrote: The Mets have had green catchers before. Like with Mike Fitzgerald. What they need is for Keith Hernandez to take the elevator down from the press level and walk under the councurse to the gate and over to the mound in game situations to discuss pitch sequences. Was just thrown out there as an aside, but Keith stated that he was in the clubhouse talking to Pagan before the game, and he mentioned that he was going down again today to talk to..I don't remember who. I found that interesting, and oddly involved, although it did sound like he was there as an analyst and not a second hitting coach. He was talking about Pagan's stance and what he was doing with his shoulder and how it was indictive of him slumping, noting that he was in the clubhouse and that Pagan and Hudgens were aware of it and were working on it.

TransMonk Apr 07 2011 08:00 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Ceetar wrote: Was just thrown out there as an aside, but Keith stated that he was in the clubhouse talking to Pagan before the game, and he mentioned that he was going down again today to talk to..I don't remember who. Wright. About the Ks...IIRC.

bmfc1 Apr 07 2011 08:21 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

metirish wrote: One thing Cohen noted about Pelfrey was that he seemed to have a completely different game plan than his first start , that's not all on Thole. I'm not buying that angle too much anyways ,Pelfrey has been around long enough that if he's not comfortable with what Thole is calling then he tells him...am I right? Pelfrey said that "Jake" called the pitches but admitted that he has the final say. If so, there was no need for him to mention his young catcher. Pelfrey said that David Wright told him to let the ball drop. I'm sure that Wright didn't tell him to throw the ball into RF. There was no need for Pelfrey to mention teammates when the failings were his. Pelfrey needs to grow up.

Gwreck Apr 07 2011 08:28 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

bmfc1 wrote: Pelfrey said that "Jake" called the pitches but admitted that he has the final say. If so, there was no need for him to mention his young catcher. Pelfrey said that David Wright told him to let the ball drop. I'm sure that Wright didn't tell him to throw the ball into RF. There was no need for Pelfrey to mention teammates when the failings were his. Pelfrey needs to grow up. Well said. I also doubt Wright told Pelfrey to throw to the wrong base (let alone throwing it into RF).

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 07 2011 08:37 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

bmfc1 wrote: metirish wrote: One thing Cohen noted about Pelfrey was that he seemed to have a completely different game plan than his first start , that's not all on Thole. I'm not buying that angle too much anyways ,Pelfrey has been around long enough that if he's not comfortable with what Thole is calling then he tells him...am I right? Pelfrey said that "Jake" called the pitches but admitted that he has the final say. If so, there was no need for him to mention his young catcher. Pelfrey said that David Wright told him to let the ball drop. I'm sure that Wright didn't tell him to throw the ball into RF. There was no need for Pelfrey to mention teammates when the failings were his. Pelfrey needs to grow up. He didn't call him out. Read the article.

bmfc1 Apr 07 2011 08:41 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

JCL: I didn't say that Pelfrey "called him out", I said "mention"... there was no need at all for him to mention Thole. Thole isn't a 10-year vet. He's a kid who is a starting catcher on a NY team and, in my opinion, he didn't need to hear his name mentioned by the pitcher that gave up seven runs.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 07 2011 08:43 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

That's OK, I'll post it for you. Geez. PHILADELPHIA - Mike Pelfrey offered Shane Victorino two curveballs in the first inning Wednesday night, and the Phillies leadoff man launched the second one to deep center for a triple. The assault had begun, and Pelfrey fell with his best bullets unfired. "Two of the first five pitches were curveballs, and I can't do that," Pelfrey said. "That's not my game. I've got to use the fastball, and use the split." The Mets' troubled No. 1 dropped his second start of the season, allowing seven runs in two-plus innings and seeing his early-season ERA inflate to 15.63. The Mets were able to charge all the way back to tie the game, but lost, 10-7, when Blaine Boyer allowed the Phils to retake the lead on a night Ryan Howard went 4-for-4 and fell a triple short of the cycle. Pelfrey blamed pitch selection, but stopped before directly criticizing catcher Josh Thole. "I was awful," he said. "I screwed around too much - too many sliders and too many curveballs." Pelfrey's ideal style is simple: fastballs and splitters. His offspeed options are so-so, but Thole felt that it was important to offer the Phillies a varied menu early, so they did not sit on the fastball. "We had success in spring training mixing pitches," Thole said. "With this kind of a lineup, we just can't keep attacking with a fastball. By the same token, we probably threw a few too many (curveballs and sliders)." Pelfrey strongly agreed with the latter sentiment. "A lot of times, I fell behind with my third- or fourth-best pitches," he said. "I got beat a lot of times with those pitches, instead of getting beat with my fastball and my split. I only threw three splits tonight, and I thought my split was pretty good." So why did he employ that questionable approach? "Ultimately, it's on me," Pelfrey said, meaning that a pitcher can shake off any sign. But Pelfrey prefers to receive a sign, nod and throw. A developing catcher such as Thole presents different challenges than Henry Blanco, the veteran who often caught Pelfrey last year. Pelfrey's series of unfortunate events included one non-pitching moment. With one out in the second and Pete Orr on first, Phils starter Joe Blanton popped up a bunt attempt. Pelfrey prepared to catch the ball, but David Wright yelled, "Let it go, drop it," in order to retire Blanton at first and then Orr at second. Pelfrey followed instructions, but rather than throwing to first, he spiked the ball into the grass. It rolled past Ike Davis as Blanton went to second, and Orr to third, and Pelfrey was left to shake his arms and curse. "The throw was way off line," Pelfrey said, shaking his head and returning to an already-used adjective. "It was awful." Down 7-2 in the fifth, seven consecutive Mets reached base against Blanton, with Daniel Murphy finally tying the game on an RBI single to left off reliever Antonio Bastardo (1-0). Angel Pagan had put the Mets on the board an inning earlier with a two-run homer to center. In the bottom of the fifth, the Phils retook the lead on RBI singles by Placido Polanco and Howard. Ben Francisco's solo homer in the sixth capped the scoring. Pelfrey denied that his confidence was shaken after two batterings, and his friends in the clubhouse agreed. As upset as Pelfrey looked while cursing and licking his hands and collapsing on the dugout bench to assess the carnage, his issue seemed more practical than mental; a battery relatively new to one another could not lock into a seamless collaboration. "We couldn't get in the right counts to use the fastball," Thole said. Or they should have used it more. Or they didn't use it at the right times. Whatever the cause, it was, as Pelfrey would say, truly awful. Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... z1IqfwEA9H

bmfc1 Apr 07 2011 08:49 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

If you think that Pelfrey spoke properly, fine. I disagree. At the two minute mark, after saying "it's on me" he says "I didn't shake him." "Him" is Thole who didn't have to be mentioned. http://www.metsblog.com/2011/04/07/reca ... reporters/

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 07 2011 10:19 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

It probably wasn't a GREAT move to raise the issue of pitch-calling versus pitch-selection, but I don't see it as all that damaging. Call it something of a "C+" media handling job by Pelf. Which beats the living Jake out of the "F" he laid on the mound last night.

G-Fafif Apr 07 2011 11:38 AM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Per the Man from A.D.A.M.: Collins spoke with Josh Thole and Mike Pelfrey after Pelfrey openly questioned pitch selection following the start. The manager's message to Thole was to keep those things in-house. "I wanted to make sure the discussions were with Mike and not you guys," Collins told reporters. Collins added that he does not worry about pitch selection. "I get caught up in location," he said.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 07 2011 12:33 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Yeah, location was a bit of an issue. Not pitching to Ryan Howard's wheelhouse, f'r instance, might have been a good start. Over the last three years, Howard has slugged .541, good for 6th best in the league. But if you look at where he does the most damage, Howard slugs .623 when pulling the ball, .820 when hitting the ball to center, and 1.051 when going the other way. Last year, Howard slugged .920 on balls the other way, .721 when hitting to center, and .586 when pulling the ball... In the first inning, Pelfrey started Howard off with a sinker low and away in the strike zone. Howard promptly crushed the ball to left center for a double and would later be driven in by Raul Ibanez, pushing the Phillies to a 2-0 lead. Howard led off the 3rd inning against Pelfrey. Down 3-0 already, Pelfrey (or catcher Josh Thole) decided to start Howard off with a curveball, low and middle of the plate. Pelfrey kept the ball in the strike zone and low and behold, Howard hit a home run to dead center field. 4-0 Phillies. The Phillies would go on to score three more runs that inning, chasing Pelfrey early for his second straight start. His Pelfishness did the same with Ibanez, who has similar numbers middle-away, and drilled two middle-away pitches (one FB, one breaking ball) to left for hits. Boyer, who hasn't pitched much to Howard before, might've been excused for pitching him away first. But he wasn't the one doing it. And Thole called his pitches, too.

Edgy DC Apr 07 2011 12:40 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

I'll be honest, I don't know what to do with those numbers. For instant, a guy could strike out nine times on inside pitches, but if he pulls one of them around the pole, he's slugging 4.000 on pitches he pulls, but .400 on inside pitches. Which is more meaningful? How does that inform your pitch choices?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 07 2011 12:43 PM Re: IGT - 4/6/11 Mets at Phils

Strike-zone-split contact numbers would help there. I do remember seeing contact-rate/BABIP numbers showing pronounced decreases middle-in as opposed to middle-away. Looking now. Either way, IIRC, Howard chases off the plate outside when you start inside. His Z-contact numbers are generally pretty consistent in the zone-- he's good at hitting strikes. So, presuming his contact rates are roughly equal for all strikes... if he doesn't do much slugging damage to right, and tends to smack outside strikes harder, why would you EVER throw him stuff there-- much less start him off there, sequencing-wise-- that isn't on the black?