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IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

smg58 Apr 10 2011 09:14 AM

Zim has an abdominal injury. Doesn't look to be major, but Alex Cora is playing third for the Nats today. Their lineup just got a lot less formidable.

Ceetar Apr 10 2011 09:17 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Desmond-6, Ankiel-8, Werth-9, LaRoche-3, Morse-7, Espinosa-4, Pudge-2, Cora-5, Marquis-1 Jose Reyes – SS Willie Harris – LF David Wright – 3B Ike Davis – 1B Angel Pagan – CF Lucas Duda – RF Brad Emaus – 2B Josh Thole – C Chris Young – RHP

TheOldMole Apr 10 2011 10:25 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Werth batting third today. After Rodriguez walked the first two guys in the 9th yesterday and Werth came up, the first thought that went through my head was, "Battle of the overpaid stiffs -- who will choke first?"

TheOldMole Apr 10 2011 11:20 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Jose on base again -- perfect bunt single.

soupcan Apr 10 2011 11:57 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

2-1 Good Guys. Bottom 2, Jose on 1st, 2 outs... Full count on Harris and... Willie strikes out.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 12:07 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

I wonder who would win a faster-simulated-game race, Niese or Ol' Nassau here. Dude works fast.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 12:39 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

2 Cora AB, 2 weak pops, 2 LOB. See, I'll cheer Alex Cora for that kinda stuff. Young and Marquis both cruising. Princeton's allowed three runners-- two on bad walks-- and the MFY fan has retired seven in a row.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 12:52 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Ike churns out a hit single. Two out emotional damage!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 01:03 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

ThisYear'sDickey is through six, after a DoucheBeard foul pop.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 01:06 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Duda done stole a base. Huh. Young to bat with two out and the big boy on third. Good on Terry.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 01:23 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

THAT ONE'S FOR WOODROW WILSON! AND THAT ONE'S FOR COTTAGE CLUB! Huzzahs all 'round-- Young out with a flourish after seven.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 01:28 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Shoulda left him in. I've got the pitch count blues.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 01:31 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 10 2011 01:36 PM

Dammit, Duda; young Lucas returns the favor for his earlier steal by misplaying Pudge's liner into a double. When you watch Carrasco's pitching motion enough, you find yourself thinking it's a wonder he gets anything over the plate. OE: It's the eighth of a close game, and he's not due up next inning-- why IS Duda still in the game, anyway?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 01:34 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Aw, hell.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 01:37 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Gentlemen, please, forget the notion of a the bullpen as a necessary part of the formula. Leave guys pitching well in. You want to preserve a close game, stay with the guy they can't hit, and get second-rate fielders out of the game. Let Willie Harris steal a game from the Nats for us for a change.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 01:45 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Buchholz is going to strike out a lot of hombres this year. OE: He should start some o' that now.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 01:48 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

He's gonna walk one or two also. Waddacrappyinning.

Frayed Knot Apr 10 2011 01:48 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Buchholz is going to strike out a lot of hombres this year. OE: He should start some o' that now. At least the ones he doesn't walk.

Frayed Knot Apr 10 2011 01:55 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: OE: It's the eighth of a close game, and he's not due up next inning-- why IS Duda still in the game, anyway? He is due up this inning. You can still make an argument for pulling him anyway but I suspect the plan was to have him hit in bottom 8 and then make a switch.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 02:03 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

"This is my trying-not-to-scream-obscenities smile. Do you like?"

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 02:09 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Can't they see how they ruin the game this way? Look up at the crowd. I bet half of it is gone.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 02:11 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Know what I miss? New York Auto Giant Dot Com!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 02:26 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

You do have a Peerless booth, though.

Frayed Knot Apr 10 2011 02:34 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Gotta send Jose here!!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 02:35 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Runrunrunrunrun

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 02:35 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

CutthebuntyshitNOW!!! Steal or something. Or just play baseball.

Frayed Knot Apr 10 2011 02:36 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

2-1 count ... do it NOW!!!!

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 02:44 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Boo! [crossout:27ou8av7]J[/crossout:27ou8av7]Terry! Boo!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 02:48 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Reyes has been on three times, and hasn't run once. Why? He's healthy; it's a bit of a mystery fish.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 03:04 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

The smellier fish and the bigger mystery is why we gave this game away.

bmfc1 Apr 10 2011 03:07 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

This one is on Terry: not replacing Duda with Hairston or Beltran in the 8th; staying too long with Corrasco; keeping Murphy at 2B in the 11th; not running Jose in the 10th; putting on the hit and run with Jose on 1st and Wright up--why not a straight steal? As it turned out, Wright swung at a bad pitch to protect Jose and gave up an out.

bmfc1 Apr 10 2011 03:09 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Young pitches brilliantly for 7 and all they needed was 3 outs to get to the closer. Unbelievable.

Kong76 Apr 10 2011 03:10 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Can I really hat this team this early? I feel hat.

soupcan Apr 10 2011 03:11 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Well, let me just say that so far in this young season I haven't seen a whole lot that I like about Blaine Boyer. His fiery beard being the one exception.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 03:13 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

I agree with virtually all that Terry Collins indictment. But it begins with pulling Young. We're in Jerry Country, wandering the deset, wondering why we can't get the eigth-inning magic, never realizing it's because we threw the seventh-inning magic down the well. Does Buck Showalter pull guys who are pitching well in deference to his bullpen formula? I'm beginning to feel that he's the last manager out there.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 03:16 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Replacement-level reliever with all-star facial adornment. Gimme Acosta back. At least he strikes people out amidst the walks and game-killing homers.

bmfc1 Apr 10 2011 03:17 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Good points Edgy. Terry managed today thinking "long term" by not playing Beltran and taking out Young. They needed this win and he facilitated them not getting it.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 03:18 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Replacement-level reliever with all-star facial adornment. Gimme Acosta back. At least he strikes people out amidst the walks and game-killing homers. Don't believe it. It's not the quality of the relievers. It's the reliance on them. It's the putting yourself in a position to need them all to be successful.

soupcan Apr 10 2011 03:20 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

It's also the quality.

MFS62 Apr 10 2011 03:22 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

I'm wishing Izzy a speedy recovery. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 03:22 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

I agree on your main point, but it is indeed also the quality that's at issue. Over the last 3-4 years, he has worse K/9 than most soft-tossing starters and worse BB/9 than most LaLooshes. He's groundball-y, but not Chad Bradford-class. He's also 30, and not doing anything new or different this year.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2011 03:36 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

bmfc1 wrote: Young pitches brilliantly for 7 and all they needed was 3 outs to get to the closer. Unbelievable. Well, they really needed six outs to get the win. Three outs to the closer is no guarantee of getting the win, as we well know.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 10 2011 03:37 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

White Jerry weakly explaining away keeping Duda in RF by saying he has most experience there. We could really use a relief pitcher who can miss a bat now and then.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2011 03:38 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Edgy DC wrote: I agree with virtually all that Terry Collins indictment. But it begins with pulling Young. I wanted Young to continue too, but 108 pitches is kind of on the high end. Is Young considered "recovered" from his injury, or does he still need to be protected a bit? If it was the combination of the 108 and the injury that caused Young to be removed, I don't think I have a problem with that.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 10 2011 03:39 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

soupcan wrote: Well, let me just say that so far in this young season I haven't seen a whole lot that I like about Blaine Boyer. His fiery beard being the one exception. I'm thinking he's the most likely candidate to give way for Isringhausen. I suspect that Boyer would clear waivers without much trouble.

smg58 Apr 10 2011 03:41 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

The bullpen is stocked with guys who looked a lot better in March than they do now. It's frustrating, but I still think they'll improve. Part of that is they've been worked a lot, but that's a perfectly good and valid reason to try and get one more inning from Young. You have to protect your relievers, too. Boyer is a good example of this. I'm not really sure why he beat out Acosta -- past performance ought to have favored Acosta, and two bad innings in March shouldn't have changed that. But he was unlucky in his first inning of work the other night, and he's given up home runs both times he's been asked to go two innings. I agree with letting Reyes run and not trying to bunt. Maybe Collins hasn't seen enough evidence that bunting isn't the best play in that spot, but every Met fan has.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 03:57 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 10 2011 04:03 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: White Jerry weakly explaining away keeping Duda in RF by saying he has most experience there. We could really use a relief pitcher who can miss a bat now and then. Buchholz, Rodriguez, Parnell when he has some semblance of control, Acosta when he's not digging his car out of wintry mix. Unfortunately, they also tend to miss the plate completely for stretches, y'know?

bmfc1 Apr 10 2011 03:58 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

BP moves--I started another thread. The Asian reporter could have rightly asked why Hu wasn't at 2B in the 11th.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 04:55 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I agree with virtually all that Terry Collins indictment. But it begins with pulling Young. I wanted Young to continue too, but 108 pitches is kind of on the high end. Is Young considered "recovered" from his injury, or does he still need to be protected a bit? If it was the combination of the 108 and the injury that caused Young to be removed, I don't think I have a problem with that. I don't think it's on the high end, except compared to the artificial threshold of 100 that's been created. Get a guy to 100 pitches and if he's doing well, let him finish the inning. It's one size fits all, and it makes no sense. What does 100 have to do with anything except it's a round number. If we had 12 fingers, would they get to throw 144 pitches? I'm very serious. The easiest way to improve your pen is to keep them out of the game until you need them. It's THE lesson of the post-2006 Mets.

Frayed Knot Apr 10 2011 05:22 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

This one is on Terry: not replacing Duda with Hairston or Beltran in the 8th; staying too long with Corrasco; keeping Murphy at 2B in the 11th; not running Jose in the 10th; putting on the hit and run with Jose on 1st and Wright up--why not a straight steal? As it turned out, Wright swung at a bad pitch to protect Jose and gave up an out. OK, so can any of these be defended? - not replacing Duda with Hairston or Beltran in the 8th -- Well he was scheduled to hit 3rd in that inning. I had no problem with getting him an extra AB before going for a defensive replacement. If he's so bad defensively that we're going to complain about not pre-switching him out then he probably shouldn't be out there in the first place. If he didn't replace him after his 8th inning AB I would have had a problem with this one. - staying too long with Corrasco -- At what point do you replace him? After the double Duda we think a better RF should have had? He then got an out before walking Stairs. Could have pulled him then I suppose although the result was a bloop single, not something to really kill Carrasco about. He then got the RBI groundout from Ankiel before Terry made the move. - keeping Murphy at 2B in the 11th -- is having him out there worse than having Hu hit instead of Murph (not to mention burning a player before it was necessary) because that's the trade-off? - not running Jose in the 10th; putting on the hit and run with Jose on 1st and Wright up--why not a straight steal? As it turned out, Wright swung at a bad pitch to protect Jose and gave up an out. -- This one I agree with. If you're going to H&R then do so with Harris not with Wright. And this doesn't even bring up the other point about bunting with Harris in the first place. The biggest question of all, of course, was pulling Young. I suspect any answer is going to revolve around 108 pitches, early in the season, by a pitcher with an injury history, yadda, yadda. But unless CY is telling Terry between innings that he's spent I would have left him in at least until they got a baserunner. Every out the starter gets (the one who retired 18 of the previous 19 btw) is one fewer the pen has to get. This one was my biggest problem because it suggests the kind of one-size-fits-all mentality that's more interested in not being questioned than it is about reading the players or the game. And before we hang this all on Collins, how about some responsibility for the offense which scored exactly one run from inning 2 thru 11?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 10 2011 06:40 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Yeah, we need a guy who can hit it over the fence coming up more often. Damn Bay and his fragile old body ruining another Met season. Granted this was Wayne Hagin, but he & Howie were mildly shocked that TC let Young bat for the last time. I can't get too hot he went when he did, a reasonable effort from the pen and the D preserves the win for sure. Collins came out and said the Mets are whiffing too often and walking the other guys too much and he's right.

Nymr83 Apr 10 2011 07:44 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

this game sucked

Ashie62 Apr 10 2011 07:55 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Pease replace Duda with Fernando Martinez..and this team sux..Thank you.

Frayed Knot Apr 10 2011 08:01 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah, we need a guy who can hit it over the fence coming up more often. Another reason not to try and sit on a slim lead by pre-emptively replacing sticks like Duda and Murphy.

Edgy DC Apr 10 2011 08:04 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

But we've been searching for the ol' reasonable effort from the pen for years. It is ever elusive. But decrying the failures of your seventh-, ninth-, and eleventh-best pitchers seems petty to me when we've take the top five out of a game when they're succeeding. It just seems the culture (and cult) of the reliever has creeped to the point when the've gone from the guys you go to when your pitcher has utterly failed to the guys you go to when your picture has more or less failed to the guys you go to when your pitcher is failing to the guys you go to when your pitcher might fail to the guys you go to because your pitcher has succeeded to the guys who fail your pitcher. And it shows no sign of abating. Somebody has to say enough. There will never be enough relief. Thirteen pitchers? GUH! I think Acosta would be an improvement too. But the real answer today was not to replace Carrasco or Boyer with somebody else, but to not replace Young at all. I realize I must be wrong, if only because I've never been so certain I'm right. But... GUH!

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 10 2011 08:14 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Frayed Knot wrote: - not replacing Duda with Hairston or Beltran in the 8th -- Well he was scheduled to hit 3rd in that inning. I had no problem with getting him an extra AB before going for a defensive replacement. If he's so bad defensively that we're going to complain about not pre-switching him out then he probably shouldn't be out there in the first place. If he didn't replace him after his 8th inning AB I would have had a problem with this one. But here's the thing-- he was doing jack offensively, too. (0-3 with one semi-loud out... in the first.) And if you're bringing in Carrasco, you're shifting into lead protection mode, essentially (and bringing in a guy who gives up his share of flies). Why aren't you making the accompanying move-- shoring up defense-- there? Duda's bat forcing your hand? Really? The biggest question of all, of course, was pulling Young. I suspect any answer is going to revolve around 108 pitches, early in the season, by a pitcher with an injury history, yadda, yadda. But unless CY is telling Terry between innings that he's spent I would have left him in at least until they got a baserunner. Every out the starter gets (the one who retired 18 of the previous 19 btw) is one fewer the pen has to get. This one was my biggest problem because it suggests the kind of one-size-fits-all mentality that's more interested in not being questioned than it is about reading the players or the game. I agree one hundred percent. Hell, CY's on a one-year deal; his sole value to the club is winning games this year. Unless he's saying, "I can't," you have to ride him hard and put him away wet. Also, when Willie Harris isn't winning games for you, he's really friggin' useless (even his defense looked funky).

Ashie62 Apr 10 2011 08:51 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

13 friggin pitchers? Are you shitting me?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 10 2011 09:05 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Also, when Willie Harris isn't winning games for you, he's really friggin' useless (even his defense looked funky). That.

Frayed Knot Apr 11 2011 07:54 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

But here's the thing-- [Duda] was doing jack offensively, too. (0-3 with one semi-loud out... in the first.) And if you're bringing in Carrasco, you're shifting into lead protection mode, essentially (and bringing in a guy who gives up his share of flies). Why aren't you making the accompanying move-- shoring up defense-- there? Duda's bat forcing your hand? Really? If Duda's bat isn't worth one inning of his defense (keeping in mind that on average you get 2+ innings of defense for every AB) then he shouldn't be in the lineup in the first place. Arguing for him being pulled in the 7th before his AB rather than afterward can be turned into one advocating for the 6th rather than the 8th or 5th rat ... you get the idea, especially with Young being as big a fly-ball pitcher as anyone in the league much less this team. Bottom line is we can't lobby all winter for the likes of Duda & Murphy to make the team and then get on the manager if/when he runs out of players twice a week because we want him to pre-emptively yank each following their 2nd AB or complain that he has to burn two players each time either is used as a PH because we're fraidy-scared to operate with them on defense without at least a six run lead. If I'm going to hang this game on Collins it's going to be for "fixing" a pitching problem which wasn't broke and for going the ultra-conservative route with the whole Reyes/Harris/Wright business. And even before that I'm going to blame the relievers who sucked and the bats who took the day off after the 1st inning.

soupcan Apr 11 2011 08:00 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Well, let me just say that so far in this young season I haven't seen a whole lot that I like about Blaine Boyer. His fiery beard being the one exception. Boyer, 29, who had pitched with Atlanta, St. Louis and Arizona in the previous six seasons, had battled to make the Mets’ roster. He recorded a save in the Mets’ first victory, a 10-inning win over the Florida Marlins on April 2. He said he felt “like myself again.” But later, he said of the loss: “I can’t even put it into words. It’s an utter letdown.” *Sigh*....now I feel kind of bad for the guy.

TransMonk Apr 11 2011 08:12 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

He seems like a nice guy, but I'm glad guys are being held accountable...even this early in the season.

Willets Point Apr 11 2011 08:18 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Maybe if meets a cute French exchange student who helps him to learn to believe in himself he will be able to turn things around.

Edgy DC Apr 11 2011 08:18 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Resiliency is forged in the flame of utter letdown. Or something.

soupcan Apr 11 2011 08:21 AM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Willets Point wrote: Maybe if meets a cute French exchange student who helps him to learn to believe in himself he will be able to turn things around. And ski the K2!

Edgy DC Apr 11 2011 02:34 PM Re: IGT 4/10/11 Nationals at Mets

Down by four and the opposition shorthanded on the bench and forced to use a catcher at first base despite his inexperience, shouldn't you come out bunting? I know it's a long way from a successful bunt to a four-run rally, but still.