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6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Frayed Knot Apr 14 2011 07:24 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 15 2011 07:09 AM

The beginning of the season in miniature, hopefully not as a cast-in-stone trend. -Tulowitski HR Hey, why not, we gave up a homer to him every other game and usually hits in between those round-trippers. At least there was no one on this time. - Wiggy flies out - Bloop hit in front of Hairston. Should it have been caught? ... Probably not. Could it have been caught? ... Possibly. Was it caught ... not even close. - Bloop hit in front of Beltran. Should it have been caught ... Probably. Could it have been caught? ... most definitely. Was it caught ... again, not even close. Which leads us to the question as to how many fly balls have fallen in our OF so far ... Answer: ALL OF THEM! - Walk to the #8 hitter which loads the bases Gee, what a fuckin' shock! ... but at least the pitcher is coming up, right? - Pitcher hits a perfect GiDP ball ... but the DP isn't turned. No error on the play of course, but once again there's a play that could have been made but wasn't and the inning should be over. I think three potential GiDPs today weren't turned. - Sharp single to LF. The only hard-hit ball since the lead-off HR drives in the 2nd and 3rd runs of the inning and blows another lead, this one by a guy who never should have come to the plate. ** Pitching Change ** - Passed ball. Not a huge deal but how many of those have we had so far? Even factoring in the Dickey factor there seem to have been a ton. - 3R HR by a slap-hitting scrub. Bad relieving AND inherited runners scoring. What more can one ask for? - Ground out Way to shut that barn door after the horse is about half way across the country. The only thing that made this inning unusual is that the Mets hadn't just scored in the previous half so these weren't give-back runs - not directly anyway.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 14 2011 07:54 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Terry acknowledging that the shit play has to stop doesn't make it so. Jason Bay is really screwing us this season too.

metirish Apr 14 2011 08:40 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Terry acknowledging that the shit play has to stop doesn't make it so. Jason Bay is really screwing us this season too. of course now Bay will feel pressure to come back and save the season and really fuck things up, Pagan is shit too.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 14 2011 08:48 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Crazy thing is, this is all going on while Reyes, Wright and Beltran are more or less hitting at the same time.

Edgy DC Apr 14 2011 09:24 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Murder, isn't it? And it's not even so much that Wright is hitting. Because he's doing well, and not on a tear. But that he isn't striking out, which could be the sort of progress that may be the beginning of really great season from him. But if he starts pressing trying to turn this around by hisself, he could get whacked up again. How'd we get the point where pitching and defense was the undoing of the team? That wasn't the plan. Anyhow, my top five points of immediate focus: 1. Pelfrey getting good. 2. Bay getting healthy. 3. Defense getting shored up. 4. Evans and Martinez coming along and threatening to move into this outfield. 5. Bullpenners falling into line. None of these are really great bets, are they?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 14 2011 09:37 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I don't like the chances of Bay helping much.

MFS62 Apr 14 2011 09:47 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I don't like the chances of Bay helping much. Maybe if he watches Tulowitski, he'll realize that it IS possible to hit home runs at Citi Field. Later

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2011 10:15 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Edgy DC wrote: And it's not even so much that Wright is hitting. Because he's doing well, and not on a tear. But that he isn't striking out, which could be the sort of progress that may be the beginning of really great season from him. But if he starts pressing trying to turn this around by hisself, he could get whacked up again. Not in the last couple of games. But he's 8th in the NL with 13 Ks, on a similar pace to both 2009 and 2010.

Edgy DC Apr 14 2011 10:18 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Did you feel that?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2011 10:27 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

No. But it is. If we go by feel, then the Beltran Suxx In The Clutch crowd all of a sudden has a case.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 14 2011 10:51 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Crazy thing is, this is all going on while Reyes, Wright and Beltran are more or less hitting at the same time. The Mets have allowed more runs (78) than every other team. On the offensive side of the balance sheet, they've scored a more than respectable amount of runs (63).

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 15 2011 05:39 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Yeah, my point was that we can't count on all 3 of those guys hitting at the same time

Benjamin Grimm Apr 15 2011 06:57 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Edgy DC wrote: Anyhow, my top five points of immediate focus: 1. Pelfrey getting good. 2. Bay getting healthy. 3. Defense getting shored up. 4. Evans and Martinez coming along and threatening to move into this outfield. 5. Bullpenners falling into line. None of these are really great bets, are they? Let's see... 1. Maybe! Pelfrey had one horrid month last year (July) and recovered. Maybe this year April is his one horrid month. No guarantee of this of course, but there's hope that he'll rebound. 2. I think he'll get healthy before too much longer. Whether he'll come back productive is a whole nother thing. I suspect he'll be an upgrade over their current left fielders, but not enough for it to be significant. 3. Yeah, I think it is what it is. 4. Who would they displace? If Bay is healthy, he'll play. They could displace a traded Beltran, but that's not likely to happen for a while. 5. I think the pen will stabilize a bit. Hopefully starters will give us more innings. Maybe Isringhausen will be better than Boyer. Maybe Acosta can replace [struggling reliever of your choice]. The pen isn't looking likely to be a strength, but I think (hope) it will become less of a weakness.

Frayed Knot Apr 15 2011 07:05 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 15 2011 07:11 AM

Yeah I don't get #4 either. You want to swap Evans for Hairston? OK, fine, probably a wash, maybe a slight improvement. But, assuming he doesn't contract the mumps in the next two weeks and be out for another 1/4 season, Bay is going to be an everyday player and so is Pagan and (mostly) Beltran. Why bring up Fernando (who is ONCE AGAIN on the shelf - at least temporarily anyway) so he can sit on the bench and PH instead of whoever remains from the Hairston/Harris duo plus spot start once/twice a week?

batmagadanleadoff Apr 15 2011 07:07 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah, my point was that we can't count on all 3 of those guys hitting at the same time I knew that. Maybe the defense will pick up just in time for the hitting to slow down.

TransMonk Apr 15 2011 07:33 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Gotta stop blowing early leads. 5 games in a row. Where's the bullpen?

smg58 Apr 15 2011 07:38 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Jason Bay is really screwing us this season too. I'm not sure he's better than what we have, unfortunately. He's most likely not a better fielder than what we've been putting out there (other than Duda, who's back in Buffalo), and our hitting really hasn't been the problem.

Edgy DC Apr 15 2011 07:44 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I think he's a better fielder than Hairston --- who he'd be taking the msot time from --- and hopefully wouldn't ben OPSing as low as Scott is right now. Probably as good as Harris too. Harris strikes me as having the athletic skills to make some good plays in the outfield, but none of the refinement to bring it consistently. We better hope the outfield defense can settle down, because it's not like Buffalo is full of ballhawks.

smg58 Apr 15 2011 07:54 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

As for defense, I think the problems (outside of Beltran's general inability to run) are more mental than physical. Hairston and Harris have been above-average outfielders in the past, and Pagan is much better than he's looked so far. Emaus was probably thinking about the previous double play he didn't make when he bobbled the ball in the sixth (granted, the first play was tougher). I still think he'll be fine if he gives himself the chance to settle down. It's not like he's the only rookie who's ever looked shaky his first two weeks. As for the pen... Obviously the walks need to come down, and giving up a home run in that spot to a guy (Herrera) who had one home run in 300 ABs while playing his home games at Coors Field is not going to cut it. I think they can sort themselves out, and hopefully a good series this weekend will send them in the right direction.

soupcan Apr 15 2011 08:22 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I really have no faith in this team turning anything around anytime soon. I've almost resigned myself to the fact these Mets are the new (old) Knicks and that as fans we're going to have to deal with bad to mediocre play until and unless this financial mess gets sorted out. I'm thinking that's at least 3 years down the road. I. Am. Really. Bummed. That being said I think they've got a better chance of Bay contibuting what we want him to rather than Pagan doing anything close to what he did last year.

Edgy DC Apr 15 2011 08:36 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I think they're very different from the Knicks. They're shedding salary rather than taking it on, and throwing younger guys into the breach. If you want to resign yourself to a lost season, I understand, but they almost have to get better. Finding enough pitching for them to be consistently better will be an ongoing problem. It almost always is.

Vic Sage Apr 15 2011 08:59 AM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

soupcan wrote: I really have no faith in this team turning anything around anytime soon. I've almost resigned myself to the fact these Mets are the new (old) Knicks and that as fans we're going to have to deal with bad to mediocre play until and unless this financial mess gets sorted out. I'm thinking that's at least 3 years down the road. I. Am. Really. Bummed. That being said I think they've got a better chance of Bay contibuting what we want him to rather than Pagan doing anything close to what he did last year. Soupy, i'm not disappointed in the least. The Mets are playing pretty much as badly as i expected. My faith resides in Alderson doing a stealth rebuild under the pretense of competing. Deal bad contracts, see which kids can play, get some new kids, make sure KRod's option doesn't vest... if he does all that, i'll consider it a successful year. My concern is that when pendulum swings back this season (as pendulums tend to do) and the Mets play well for a few weeks, Sandy is convinced by ownership to "stay the course" or "go for it" (albeit less likely this year, due to financial constraints), and we don't rebuild to the extent necessary. But i don't think that's likely. I think the more likely obstacle is Terry Cuntbunter Collins, not going along with the gameplan, letting FRod finish losing games ("cuz he needs work".... no Terry, what he needs is to get fucking lost), and playing no-upside guys like Hairston and Harris in LF instead of a steady diet of Dudas, Martinezes, etc., because he wants to "win now", as if those guys actually give us a better shot of winning now OR later. And Izzy? Really? over Acosta, or any number of young arms in AA and AAA itching for a chance? Why cuz he might help us get to .500 this year? BIG FUCKING DEAL. This year will have its ups and downs but will, inevitably be a Bataan death march to utter irrelevance by mid-season. Were that it not so, but alas, the writing was on the wall to any who chose to look thru any but the rosiest of spectacles. So I'll make the most of a lost season by rooting for Alderson to succeed in remaking the team over Collins' interference and Wilpon's restraints.

soupcan Apr 15 2011 01:05 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I think they're very different from the Knicks. They're shedding salary rather than taking it on, and throwing younger guys into the breach. If you want to resign yourself to a lost season, I understand, but they almost have to get better. Finding enough pitching for them to be consistently better will be an ongoing problem. It almost always is. I don't mean in terms of being hamstrung by bad contracts, more along the lines of just being bad for the forseeable future. I'm VERY upset about the possibility of Reyes leaving. Mets fans love Jose and this would be such a punch in the gut. We all know that if/when Jose is set loose it will have come down to the inability to pay him. Not the lack of desire to. With all that we've learned regarding the finances of the Wilpon/Katz families it seems to me that even if they do come out of this lawsuit without losing everything, I'm very skeptical about their continued ability to be able to financially support a perennial championship caliber team. At the same time you know they are going to fight tooth and nail to keep them. We'll be stuck watching these guys run a team that they can't afford. Sadly (and I sincerely mean this), I find myself secretly (well not so secretly now) rooting for Picard to hammer them in court just so they might be forced to sell. This year will have its ups and downs but will, inevitably be a Bataan death march to utter irrelevance by mid-season. Were that it not so, but alas, the writing was on the wall to any who chose to look thru any but the rosiest of spectacles. So I'll make the most of a lost season by rooting for Alderson to succeed in remaking the team over Collins' interference and Wilpon's restraints. One bad year I can deal with - I'm a Mets fan after all - and if I felt that Alderson were given the tools by management to compete in the future (translation: $$$) then I would simply accept this season and move on, happily looking forward with the same confidence as you in Alderson. But again, I just don't see it happening as long as the current ownership remains in place.

Edgy DC Apr 15 2011 01:13 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

soupcan wrote: I'm VERY upset about the possibility of Reyes leaving. Mets fans love Jose and this would be such a punch in the gut. We all know that if/when Jose is set loose it will have come down to the inability to pay him. Not the lack of desire to. It may come down to the apparent wisdom of paying him. (Nobody, at a personal level, wanted to say good-bye to Feliciano, either.) It's not like the Knicks didn't spend a ton of money; they just didn't spend it wisely. I can't see the good sense in rooting in court for anything but the most just outcome of a terrible situation. The team didn't win too many championships when they were apparently loaded and spending generously, either.

soupcan Apr 15 2011 01:36 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Edgy DC wrote: It may come down to the apparent wisdom of paying him. (Nobody, at a personal level, wanted to say good-bye to Feliciano, either.) Well, Feliciano and Reyes are two very different scenarios, and my point is that they're not even going to negotiate with Reyes. Edgy DC wrote: It's not like the Knicks didn't spend a ton of money; they just didn't spend it wisely. Again, the Knicks analogy was really just about being resigned to rooting for a team that isn't going to be good anytime soon, whatever the reason. Edgy DC wrote: I can't see the good sense in rooting in court for anything but the most just outcome of a terrible situation. The team didn't win too many championships when they were apparently loaded and spending generously, either. Of course one always wants justice to be served. And, like Vic, I like Alderson and his lieutenants. In a normal situation, I would have complete confidence in his ability to rebuild this team. After reading though, how convoluted and enmeshed with Madoff the finances were, I've become convinced that going forward no matter the outcome in court, the current regime will not be able to sustain this franchise as a team that will be consistently successful. It's true that they didn't win much when (they thought) they had money but that can be attributed that to less than stellar front offices. The Reyes situation - should it turn out the way we all think it will - will speak volumes.

Edgy DC Apr 15 2011 01:44 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Well, that's the first I heard that they're definitely not going to negotiate with him.

soupcan Apr 15 2011 01:44 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

You know what I mean.

Edgy DC Apr 15 2011 01:56 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I have no idea how the situation will turn out. The only thing I have confidence in is that the marketplace realities will have a huge amount to say about the future ownership of the team. Likely either the sale of a portion of the team will allow them to operate the team, or it won't and they'll lose more money and be forced to give up majority ownership. There's a lot that needs to play out. There's something about being sports fans that demands that we all be prognosticators confident about our ability to tell the future. I honestly don't know.

soupcan Apr 15 2011 02:11 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I have no idea how it will turn out either, but I have a strong opinion about it based on things I've read and people I've spoken to. What you say: Edgy DC wrote: the marketplace realities will have a huge amount to say about the future ownership of the team. Likely either the sale of a portion of the team will allow them to operate the team, or it won't and they'll lose more money and be forced to give up majority ownership. I agree with. Again though, based on things I've seen mostly relating to their finances, I see little reason to believe that the current ownership will be able to continue their stewardship of the organization in a manner that would return a consistently succesful team. I don't pretend that I can see the future but I don't ignore obvious signs either.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 15 2011 02:26 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

Well, it is looking very likely, based on recent reports, that they will be getting an infusion of cash from a minority investor. I suppose that can only be a good thing. The question, though, is how good? Will it be enough for them to spend what they need to be competitive for a playoff spot? Maybe the answer to that is yes, and 2012 will be the year we'd like it to be. Or maybe the answer is no, and it allows the Wilpons to hang on for a few extra hopeless years. I think the answer won't be too long in coming. We'll be able to tell by the approach that Sandy takes in November.

soupcan Apr 15 2011 02:32 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 15 2011 02:41 PM

The answer is no. That cash infusion is to help them cover operating expenses and pay back loans. My hope is that whoever the minority investor is, he is savvy enough to put a clause in whatever agreement he signs with the Wilpons/Katzes that is similar to the clause in the agreement that Fred had with Doubleday allowing him to buy out his former partner when Nelson didn't really want to sell. OE: Sorry that didn't read how I meant it. Doubleday felt forced to take less than what he thought was fair value for his half.

Edgy DC Apr 15 2011 02:39 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I don't pretend that I can see the future but I don't ignore obvious signs either. Am I ignoring something?

soupcan Apr 15 2011 02:49 PM Re: 6th inning/Gm 2 just about sums things up

I don't know, are you? As I said, I've read a lot of stuff which leads me to believe that no matter how the Wilpons/Katzes come out of this, the way they ran the finances through, in and aroiund Madoff was done in such a way that even the most experienced forensic accountants have been scratching their heads trying to unravel it all. They do not have the financial wherewithall that they once had (by a significant margin) and will not be able to support the running of the team in a similar fashion to how they had. They would borrow from banks and then hand the money over to Madoff to invest, thinking that the returns they got back from Bernie would cover the interest/principal on those loans and then both finance team operations and reinvest with Madoff(!) the rest. Monies for deferred salaries were all with Madoff as well as 401(k)s and Lord knows what else.