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All This Losing is Wonderful

Centerfield Apr 17 2011 06:12 AM

Maybe. If you believe that the worst type of season a team can have is one where they can't realistically contend, but manage to stay in the thick of things just long enough to prevent them from improving. I don't think this team is this bad, but it's looking more and more like they might not be relevant at any point this season. Which may not be the worst thing. A couple of positives: *A team that never contends can't be blamed for not letting K-Rod's option vest. Pick up his salary and trade him to a team that has an Established Closer. He becomes the "eighth-inning guy", and the vesting option goes out the window. If the Mets pick up the salary, they might be able to find a team who will overpay for an Established Closer. *Johan has no incentive to rush back too early. He takes his time, gets ready for 2012. *I hate to see him go, but Beltran looks somewhat healthy out there. Again, pick up the salary, trade him for some young guys to an AL team. Call up Lucas Duda, tell him to relax and let's see what he can do in the long haul. *Jenry Mejia can be called up mid-season in a low-pressure environment. *The youth movement really can change the atmosphere around this team. The fans maybe will get behind a young team that's playing for tomorrow. *The team feels pressure to create some positive news and extends Jose Reyes to a lifetime contract.

MFS62 Apr 17 2011 06:56 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

Other than giving me a Tartuffe flashback, you made some good points. I've never agreed with the statement that the fans won't stand for a re-building effort in New York. I think think that if the fans haven't been coming out to see the old, stale, team, they will respond to a bunch of kids - IF they show promise. Later

dgwphotography Apr 17 2011 08:02 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

MFS62 wrote: I've never agreed with the statement that the fans won't stand for a re-building effort in New York. I think think that if the fans haven't been coming out to see the old, stale, team, they will respond to a bunch of kids - IF they show promise. Not at these prices... CF neglected one more positive - if things get worse, perhaps this team can be ripped from the Wilponzi's cold, dead hands sooner. rather than later. If I go there this season, it will only be because I received a Mets gift card for my birthday. Other than that, I won't spend one red cent there this year. I love the new front office, and I am looking forward to see them get a chance to rip everything completely apart, and build up from scratch. I realize that this is a process that will take years, but if done properly, could yield results that we haven't seen in 25 years. To be honest, I don't think I will ever get over the destruction of Shea. I feel that Citi Field is nothing more than a house of avarice. Fewer seats in order to artificially pump up demand with an eye toward lower supply. Every seat with perfect sightlines to.. advertising. A literal moat that separates the haves and have nots. This theory would have worked at Shea where lower prices remained, and people might have been willing to see younger talent for those lower prices. As it stands now, I see many empty seats in Citi Field's immediate future....

bmfc1 Apr 17 2011 08:23 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

Talk about creating lemonade out of lemonade... great posts!

metirish Apr 17 2011 08:26 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

A bit confused on K-Rod and Beltran.....are you saying the team should pick up his salary?, how do yo do that except let his get those 55 games finished, trading him next season? Beltran will be a FA right ?

G-Fafif Apr 17 2011 08:51 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

dgwphotography wrote: I feel that Citi Field is nothing more than a house of avarice. House of Avarice is the Official Greed Sponsor of the New York Mets. Howie mentions in the fourth inning every night.

soupcan Apr 17 2011 09:11 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

dgwphotography wrote: if things get worse, perhaps this team can be ripped from the Wilponzi's cold, dead hands sooner. rather than later. I'm thinking that this may be the only possible positive outcome of this already lost season.

Ceetar Apr 17 2011 10:06 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

soupcan wrote: dgwphotography wrote: if things get worse, perhaps this team can be ripped from the Wilponzi's cold, dead hands sooner. rather than later. I'm thinking that this may be the only possible positive outcome of this already lost season. it's not a positive outcome, it's simply an outcome who's worth is immeasurably at this time. Also, as dim as it looks, the season isn't over. No one will come to see unready rookies play hard. Even if the prices were "Shea level". Left out is that if prices were at that level, the unready rookies playing hard would be more common, because that's tens of millions of dollars less of income that the Mets would not have. No one's going to come and watch Mejia get shelled just because he's young, throws hard, and a couple of people say he reminds them of Gooden. If 'falsely completing' were going to trick this front office into believe it's better than it is, then it's not really a very good front office. The team sucking just means they're further from the goal of ever being watchable. Johan coming back would go a long way towards figuring out what we're going to get of him next year. If we wait until next year, we don't know if we're going to get a resemblance to Johan, or Chien Ming Wang. If it's believed that the Madoff situation prevents the Mets from spending what they need to improve the team _and_ they sell, K-Rod's option becomes less important. a new owner should be one that's going to spend the money to improve the team, and an overpaid, but still one of the best relievers in the game, is still a better asset over picking one of the middling relievers in the system/team and making them the closer. In general closers are overrated, but getting rid of one of the better relievers only makes the team worse. And working as a unit, or good enough to win right now aside, this team has talented players. Blowing it up and hoping the next crop of guys comes in and does well and whatever is basically the Pirates model, and doesn't work.

Gwreck Apr 17 2011 10:15 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

Ceetar wrote: Even if the prices were "Shea level". Left out is that if prices were at that level, the unready rookies playing hard would be more common, because that's tens of millions of dollars less of income that the Mets would not have. Incorrect. 1. The Mets had plenty of income when they were at Shea; and 2. The new ballpark brings in tons of cash that is unrelated to regular seat prices.

Edgy DC Apr 17 2011 10:25 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

I'm rooting for them to turn it around and rain runs upon the eneemy and goodness upon all folks of good will.

Ceetar Apr 17 2011 10:33 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

Gwreck wrote: Ceetar wrote: Even if the prices were "Shea level". Left out is that if prices were at that level, the unready rookies playing hard would be more common, because that's tens of millions of dollars less of income that the Mets would not have. Incorrect. 1. The Mets had plenty of income when they were at Shea; and 2. The new ballpark brings in tons of cash that is unrelated to regular seat prices. 1. Yes but costs have risen, and risen, and risen, across baseball. And it seems like they came pretty close to maxing out the payroll at Shea,( and they made millions and millions more than they would've had they not been closing it) trying to add that one piece that would get them that "1 more game" to get to the playoffs. 2. I think that's my point . $20 from Citi for example. The Mets operating budget is higher, and will always be higher, at Citi and because of it allows them not to become the Pittsburgh Pirates as they readjust the roster. It means they don't have to trade Reyes and Wright while they hope Davis and Thole and Haven and Flores etc come up and become stars worth putting pieces around.

smg58 Apr 17 2011 12:28 PM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

I can't see rebuilding further reducing attendance levels from what they are now. I don't see Beltran staying past June, one way or the other. I just wish Fernando Martinez could stay healthy long enough to take advantage of the likely job opening. I wouldn't mind seeing K-Rod pitch well enough for somebody to take a risk on that vest. I don't think the season is already lost. It's two weeks, and we've been in most of the games we've lost. And besides, we still have a better winning percentage than the Red Sox, who spent a hell of a lot more money this offseason than we did.

Fman99 Apr 17 2011 07:42 PM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

You are all going to look mighty foolish when we're marching down fucking Manhattan enjoying the WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONSHIP PARADE this year. There, I said it.

Centerfield Apr 18 2011 09:02 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

I'm going to need some help with the Tartuffe reference.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 18 2011 09:17 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

A willful hypocrite, who pretends at/exaggerates virtue (or, in this case, pretends to see and appreciate it?). Methinks he's accusing you of being disingenuous. /Thanks, English majordom!

The Second Spitter Apr 18 2011 09:54 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

Ceetar wrote: No one's going to come and watch Mejia get shelled just because he's young, throws hard, and a couple of people say he reminds them of Gooden.. Apparently he came pretty close to getting called up according to....... someone.

attgig Apr 18 2011 11:18 AM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

Ceetar wrote: And working as a unit, or good enough to win right now aside, this team has talented players. Blowing it up and hoping the next crop of guys comes in and does well and whatever is basically the Pirates model, and doesn't work. that was the marlins model and it netted then a couple of ws championships. It's the drays model and it got them in the playoffs. and i think the pirates have a better record than the mets right now, so i wouldn't say that our current model is necessarily better... (it's been 3 years for huntington, so, you can't say, the previous 14 or so years was this model...back then, they tried overpaying for old, no-talent).

soupcan Apr 18 2011 12:14 PM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

I would have no problem 86-ing (see what I did there?) the entire ML roster except for Wright, Reyes and Davis. That's what makes me so upset - that Reyes has one foot and nine toes out the door. Save for that, I'd be on board.

Ashie62 Apr 18 2011 01:28 PM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

soupcan wrote: I would have no problem 86-ing (see what I did there?) the entire ML roster except for Wright, Reyes and Davis. That's what makes me so upset - that Reyes has one foot and nine toes out the door. Save for that, I'd be on board. This axing of the roster may just happen...You try to sign Wright, keep Ike and a few select others and start over. Sometimes shit happens..

smg58 Apr 18 2011 02:18 PM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

Given the way the team has performed over the past 2+ seasons, I'm surprised there would be any aversion to starting over. They don't have to get rid of everybody, but you could come up with perfectly valid baseball reasons to deal any of the expensive players on this team.

Elster88 Apr 18 2011 08:13 PM Re: All This Losing is Wonderful

This is a really good thread. My online forum life is 99% non-regular lurker these days, but from what I see all this losing seems to be inspiring creative and thoughtful posting. On this board at least.