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What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass?
| Just a bad start and needs to play through it. | 6 votes |
| Just a bad start, needs to have a seat on the bench for a game or two. | 6 votes |
| Last year was the anomaly. This guy is teh suck. | 7 votes |
| Misses Jerry Manuel. | 2 votes |
| Misses Oliver Perez. | 1 votes |
| Hates Terry Collins. | 2 votes |
| Hates Chin-lung Hu. | 3 votes |
| Bat him leadoff. | 2 votes |
| Bat him 8th. | 1 votes |
| Switch positions with Beltran. | 1 votes |
| Switch Wifeys with Beltran. | 2 votes |
| Other (write in). | 2 votes |
| John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 17 2011 05:26 PM |
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Bad hitting, bad fielding, bad decision-making. He's going for the Triple Crown of suck so far.
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| Ceetar Apr 17 2011 05:28 PM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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He's a good player (regardless of 'how good', he's better than this).
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| themetfairy Apr 17 2011 05:35 PM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I think he's adjusting to being one of the featured players and he's not yet used to that pressure.
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| G-Fafif Apr 17 2011 06:00 PM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Dismayed by R.A. Dickey revealing winter plans, assumed season was already over.
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| Gwreck Apr 17 2011 06:11 PM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Somewhere between choices 1 and 3.
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| Frayed Knot Apr 17 2011 06:33 PM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I would have forgiven/understood one bunt today on account of him being in a funk and all, but he was really pushing it with two.
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| Fman99 Apr 17 2011 07:33 PM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I think he hates Hu. It's just random enough to make sense.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 17 2011 09:14 PM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I would like to hear from the last-year-was-a-mirage crowd.
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| metirish Apr 17 2011 09:40 PM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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great choices ....went with switch positions with Beltran.....
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| The Second Spitter Apr 18 2011 01:32 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Because .375 career slugging after 10 seasons in the minors compels one to draw the opposite conclusion?
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| Ashie62 Apr 18 2011 04:46 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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That.
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| Vic Sage Apr 18 2011 06:38 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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i won't bother with writing new words on the subject, but here's what i said in the "all optimism" thread before the season started:
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| Ceetar Apr 18 2011 06:52 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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You could certainly point to his splits, but no matter how you spin his 1000+ AB with the Mets as 'flukish one season" he's not going to go the entire season without a hit against a lefthander. Although he's gotten on base 4 times in 17 AB. Of course, that sample size is basically worthless to draw any conclusions from. (Not that the 16 game sample is that much better) But he's way below even his Cubs numbers, so it's silly to think he won't do better than that, though I wish he wasn't bringing his troubles out to the field as they say.
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| seawolf17 Apr 18 2011 07:21 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I chose "teh suck." I'm with Vic; I think we put way too many eggs in the Pagan Basket.
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| The Second Spitter Apr 18 2011 07:31 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 18 2011 07:35 AM |
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When Pagan came to this team, everybody was saying he was a nice upgrade on Endy. A few gallons of kool-aid later, fans had him pegged for the next Beltran.
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| TransMonk Apr 18 2011 07:32 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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This. And it will also apply to a similar Dickey poll that gets thrown up in a couple weeks.
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| seawolf17 Apr 18 2011 07:34 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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As will my answer.
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| TransMonk Apr 18 2011 07:41 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Yup.
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| batmagadanleadoff Apr 18 2011 08:42 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I'm always disappointed to read or hear the Baseball establishment include Pagan in the mix of best Mets. It reminds me of the bad de Roulet years when Youngblood and Stearns vied for best Met vet. It's not a perfect analogy but it's close enough. I see Pagan as a 4th outfielder and if he's a best Met candidate, the team's in big trouble. I probably said this about a jillion times already but I'll say it again, mainly because I've yet to hear it from the media -- but Pagan murders the Mets against LHP.
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| batmagadanleadoff Apr 18 2011 08:43 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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You're accusing someone else of spinning things here?
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| Ceetar Apr 18 2011 08:53 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Because no one's doing it?
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| batmagadanleadoff Apr 18 2011 09:00 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Who?
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| Ceetar Apr 18 2011 09:03 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I state that he's better than he's shown in 16 games because his numbers are worse than all his numbers everywhere, and that he'll get at least one hit off a left-handed pitcher this year and I'm the one spinning things?
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| batmagadanleadoff Apr 18 2011 09:06 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Pagan is an asset against LHP because he won't go hitless against them?
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| Benjamin Grimm Apr 18 2011 09:09 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I'm sure Pagan is better than he's been for the first 16 games.
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| batmagadanleadoff Apr 18 2011 09:12 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Even if Pagan's not an everyday outfielder, he still brings a lot to the table. He does enough things well enough that he's an asset if used properly. But I wouldn't want him at the top of the lineup against lefties just like I wouldn't want to see David Wright converted to a relief pitcher.
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| LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 18 2011 09:13 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Well, yeah, that's a little silly. But so is relying entirely on minor-league slugging numbers to predict major-league performance when he's got 1500+ major-league PAs available for reference. Yeah, he didn't hit with much/any power in the minors. And during last year's "breakthrough," he slugged .425, which is higher than the sub-.400 numbers he put up for minimum-wage. But over 1533 major-league plate chances, dude's slugging .427; power-wise, last year was right in line with what he does-- he just did it more, and while playing a solid CF to boot. If you want to point to 2009 as the outlier, fine. But expecting a .340 OBP and .420 SLG out of him-- numbers which, out of a CF, would justify the sort of fan optimism you're talking about-- is entirely reasonable, no? Take him out against tough lefties once or twice a week, and you've got the potential for some gaudy numbers for a prime defensive position, no? If you were Collins/Alderson, and you cared to acquire/plug in a demi-lefty-killing backup center fielder every 4-5 games, I'd be in favor of it. But who's that guy on the roster/system now? Hell, who's that guy in the league-- reasonably-priced CF backup who murders lefties-- now? Wanna put Matt Diaz in center? Overpay Cody Ross?
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| Gwreck Apr 18 2011 09:16 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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Nick Evans platoon with Angel Pagan. Beltran (or hell, maybe even Bay) plays center on the days when Evans is in the starting lineup.
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| seawolf17 Apr 18 2011 09:18 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I know the "fan base" would have mutinied, but I would have traded Pagan this offseason, and said so at the time. But that's just me.
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| Ceetar Apr 18 2011 09:23 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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As you point out, there aren't a ton of those guys available. It's not exactly 'killing' but Hairston has an .820 OPS against lefties and plays center. SLG .492. 27 homers in about a years worth of PA. He _is_ that guy, which is why they gave him a major league contract. Bay's injury and Harris' sort of hot start seems to have changed how Collins plays the outfield, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hairston in center on Tuesday.
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| The Second Spitter Apr 18 2011 09:26 AM Re: What's Up Angel Pagan's Ass? |
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I think they would have too, but for the fact they're in such a hole. @Albilly -- Fair enough. But i betcha he'll wind-up being a below average OF, slugging < 400 when he hangs 'em up.
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