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2nd base - 2006

Frayed Knot Oct 27 2005 03:55 PM

In the race to replace Matsui, this will be one of the more interesting decisions of the winter. A question to 'Ask BA' gets the topic started: Q: - - With all the second basemen the Mets have been using, why has Jeff Keppinger faded out of the picture? Even before his injury, he seemed surprisingly off the radar for the kind of year he was having. Has Anderson Hernandez bumped him from the top of the Mets' minor league depth chart, and what are the odds of them being on the big league team next year? A: - - Keppinger likely would have gotten a shot in New York this year if he hadn't broken his left kneecap trying to turn a double play in mid-June. Big league second basemen Kaz Matsui and Miguel Cairo got hurt in the same week. But instead of getting that opportunity, Keppinger saw the opposite happen as Hernandez took over for him at Triple-A Norfolk and passed him on the organization depth chart. Before he got hurt, Keppinger was doing what he does best: hit for average. He was batting .337/.377/.455 in 65 games. Nothing else about his game (power, on-base ability, speed, defense) stands out, so his ceiling is probably that of a line-drive hitting utilityman. He's already 24, two years older than the flashier Hernandez, who fits the more traditional middle-infield mold. That said, and even with Hernandez coming off a career year of .315/.357/.421 with 35 steals between Double-A and Triple-A, I still don't totally believe in his bat. Hernandez looks like a utilityman to me as well. You may see Hernandez or Keppinger on the Mets in 2006, but I doubt it will be as a starter.

Rotblatt Oct 27 2005 04:24 PM

Motherfucker. Two decent 2B men taken already. From Rotoworld: ]Nationals signed infielder-outfielder Damian Jackson, who had been with the Padres, to a one-year contract. Major league free agents can change teams for another 15 days, but Jackson was a minor league free agent, giving him the ability to sign at any time. He's probably getting less than $1 million here, but considering that he opened each of the last two years in the minors, he'll take it. In 275 at-bats with the Padres, Jackson hit .255/.335/.342 with 15 steals in 17 attempts. That's more at-bats than he should get under ideal circumstances, but because he can play six positions, he's a decent enough reserve. Oct. 27 - 3:55 pm et Nationals signed second baseman Bernie Castro, who had been with the Orioles, to a one-year contract. GM Jim Bowden didn't claim him Castro waivers earlier this month, but is giving him a major league deal anyway? That's pretty odd. Nationals fans can view the 26-year-old Castro as a superior version of Henry Mateo. He's probably not good enough to play regularly at second base and his lack of versatility will hinder him as a reserve, but he has some offensive ability and he's a very good basestealer. Because he'll probably be needed to fill in for Jose Vidro at times next year, he'll be a sleeper in NL-only leagues. Oct. 27 - 3:50 pm et

Edgy DC Oct 27 2005 04:28 PM

Pressure's on Bowden to replace Christian Guzman. Deivi Cruz is about to become a free agent, and neither of those guys are about to move Guzman.

Elster88 Oct 27 2005 04:31 PM

I believe in Kaz. I am a fool. At least I outlasted the "I believe in Miggy" group.

Nymr83 Oct 27 2005 08:53 PM

Kaz has shown nothing in the majors but i still hate to completely dismiss him after looking at his japan numbers. i'd be very upset if he were plan A next year with a guy like cairo as plan B. i'd be ok with matsui as plan B at 2B, SS, and 3B if he can play there. i guess i'm ok with him as part of a platoon until he plays himself out of the job or someone plays their way into it.

Edgy DC Oct 27 2005 09:39 PM

Nymr83 wrote: Kaz has shown nothing in the majors... Sure he has.

Nymr83 Oct 27 2005 10:02 PM

his obp has been .331 and .300, his slg .396 and .352, i'll revise my statement to say he hasn't shown anything good at the plate. i don't want to have a fielding argument at this point, i'll just say that if you assume he is an average defensive player at 2b (not that i assume that, just that i dont want to argue it) that wouldn't justify keeping him in the lineup.

Mark Healey Oct 27 2005 10:07 PM

Seriously, he makes eight million dollars next year. I think Mets fans are going to have to deal with the possibility he is the 2B for 2006.

Nymr83 Oct 27 2005 10:13 PM

so does half the yankee bench/bullpen (yeah i'm exaggerating.) how about taking advantage of playing in new york and not keeping a player at a position just because he's making big dollars?

Edgy DC Oct 27 2005 10:34 PM

He hit 32 doubles in 2004 in two thirds of a season. That still led the Mets and was well ahead of a record-setting pace for them. He hit about the middle of the pack for a starting National League shortstop. Not as much as I hope to see, but not so awful and certainly not nothing. He also stole at an effective rate. Between his injuries and his slowness to get untracked, he had little to offer this season. But having seen him play, I can't say he's shown nothing. Watching him play makes clear he's a wonderfully talented ballplayer, but the results aren't there. One thing I notice is a ton of balls that he seems to be intentionally topping on fastballs away when he's batting lefthanded. They get over the pitcher's head on a bounce, but get scooped up by the shortstop on hop two or three and he's out by a half a step. I suspect that these are a often infield hits in Japan, where the shortstop is playing deeper and that initial hop is higher, and he may be anacronistically performing as a relic of the eighties --- the astroturf hitter. This makes me frustrated because the subtle nuances of slow adjustments and poor communication may be conspiring with his injuries to rob us of a very good ballplayer. And, these being the best years of his baseball life, I suspect he's more frustrated.

Willets Point Oct 27 2005 10:37 PM

You know, I kind of like Matsui. [Readies for barrage of abuse].

Mark Healey Oct 27 2005 10:44 PM

Outside of his inablity to stay healthy, the only thing that really worries (and I don't have any stats to back this up) is his penchant for making the big error in the big spot... However, as Edgy has stated, when he's played regulary, he has hit.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 27 2005 11:20 PM

His frequent injuries are the real issue. He can hit. I sound like a broken record but an inability to explain their frequency or their severity may have worn out WWSB in the end. IIRC near the end of this year he snapped something to effect of "Don't ask me. I don't understand a thing he says" when he asked about his last injury. I still wouldn't mind Ray Durham in the mix next season. Most similar through age 33: Craig Biggio.

Frayed Knot Oct 27 2005 11:43 PM

I, btw, also have more faith in Matsui than he's actually earned to this point and wouldn't mind seeing him return for next year (although I suspect he'll be gone before April). I posted not only as a cheesy device to start conversation about the topic but also to temper any notions that are creeping into Met fans' heads that KazMat is addition by subtraction because 'we've got two kick-ass minor leaguers all ready to step in and become stars!!'

Rotblatt Oct 28 2005 10:24 AM

Durham activated his $6M player option, so we'll have to trade for him. I wouldn't mind doing that, although he's had injury problems too. I like Matsui, but we should probably try to trade him. If we can't, we need a plan B--one with serious upside.

smg58 Oct 28 2005 10:29 AM

We don't have kick-ass minor leaguers. We do have three guys (Hernandez, Lambin, and Keppinger) capable of stepping in as utility men, possibly with one of them emerging to give us more out of 2B than we got this season (which was very, very little). The only thing that makes Matsui an option to me is his immovability. The no-trade clause doesn't worry me so much because I think he'd be happy to go at this point, but the Mets would either have to take on an expensive player in return or eat most of his contract and get nothing. You could possibly use him in a deal involving Manny to make the money exchange even up, but that doesn't look likely right now. I'm not convinced dealing Matsui would be addition by subtraction the way dealing Cedeno was, but I have no confidence in his ability to contribute, either. The other question is this: do you bring back Woodward and/or Anderson at the risk of blocking Hernandez, Lambin, and Keppinger?

Elster88 Oct 28 2005 10:33 AM

Edgy DC wrote: He hit 32 doubles in 2004 in two thirds of a season. That still led the Mets and was well ahead of a record-setting pace for them. He hit about the middle of the pack for a starting National League shortstop. Not as much as I hope to see, but not so awful and certainly not nothing. He also stole at an effective rate. Between his injuries and his slowness to get untracked, he had little to offer this season. But having seen him play, I can't say he's shown nothing. Watching him play makes clear he's a wonderfully talented ballplayer, but the results aren't there. I've been saying all of this for the entire year. Trust me, with certain folks you'd have more fun banging your head against a wall. In general, it's much easier to say "Matsui sucks", and more fun to make up clever (SC=100000 on the word clever) nicknames like Matsucki, or Matbooi.

Nymr83 Oct 28 2005 11:29 AM

]He hit 32 doubles in 2004 he still had a disgusting .396 slg%

Rotblatt Oct 28 2005 11:34 AM

Oooh, Matbooi! That's a good one! And timely, as well! Right up there with "Matscary" and "Matsuckula" -- any of which would make for pretty entertaining Halloween costumes. ]The other question is this: do you bring back Woodward and/or Anderson at the risk of blocking Hernandez, Lambin, and Keppinger? Anderson & Woody were both valuable guys this year, but I don't think we should bring back more than one of them. Of course, Lambin gets no respect, so I'd be surprised if he's in their plans at all. I bet Keppinger & Herdandez both get shots, though--although maybe not at the same time.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 28 2005 11:44 AM

]he still had a disgusting .396 slg% Middle of the pack among NL 2Bmen.

TheOldMole Oct 28 2005 11:54 AM

I don't see us having a better 2B than Matsui.

metirish Oct 28 2005 11:55 AM

Jeff Keppinger will be the Mets second baseman after Kaz gets his chance out of Spring Training.

Edgy DC Oct 28 2005 11:55 AM

]he still had a disgusting .396 slg% So that whole thing about him hitting about in the middle of the pack for National League shortstops, that's just irrelevant? Instead you pick an isolated stat (and that slugging percentage alone is close to the middle of the pack also) and brandish it? That's analysis? The team has an investment here. That's no reason to play him if they have better options. But it is a reason to analyze him as closely as possible before making a decision on him. Closer than you seem willing to do, anyhow.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 28 2005 12:00 PM

TheOldMole wrote: I don't see us having a better 2B than Matsui. Unless there's some truth to that Furcal stuff.

Elster88 Oct 28 2005 12:02 PM

Edgy DC wrote: ]he still had a disgusting .396 slg% So that whole thing about him hitting about in the middle of the pack for National League shortstops, that's just irrelevant? Instead you pick an isolated stat (and that slugging percentage alone is close to the middle of the pack also) and brandish it? That's analysis? The team has an investment here. That's no reason to play him if they have better options. But it is a reason to analyze him as closely as possible before making a decision on him. Closer than you seem willing to do, anyhow. How does your head feel? Are there any dents in the wall?

Mark Healey Oct 28 2005 01:54 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ="TheOldMole"]I don't see us having a better 2B than Matsui. Unless there's some truth to that Furcal stuff. I haven't heard that there was any interest from the Mets, just Furcal's agent. Unless they deal Maysui, I just don't see Minaya bringing in a 2B, which upsets me to no end , as I want Jacobs to pplay 1B next year.

Yancy Street Gang Oct 28 2005 01:57 PM

I don't really know how much weight to give the Furcal thing. I am skeptical, but that's my nature. After the Martinez-Beltran thing last year, I'm not going to rule anything out.

sharpie Oct 28 2005 02:05 PM

With Furcal and Reyes we would be cleaning up in triples. I don't think it'll happen, though.

Nymr83 Oct 28 2005 02:25 PM

Edgy, YOU picked one stat (the 32 doubles) and i said that even with them his SLG% wasnt so good. besides which, that slg% wasn't even this year! this year he was down in the land of rey ordonez.

Nymr83 Oct 28 2005 02:26 PM

in Furcal's 6 year major league career he has had an OPS+ over 100 only once. now maybe you'll take that out of a gold-glove caliber Shortstop, but from a guy learning a new position at 2B? i'd pass.

Elster88 Oct 28 2005 03:16 PM

Nymr83 wrote: even with them his SLG% wasnt so good. besides which, that slg% wasn't even this year! this year he was down in the land of rey ordonez. Good point. But this does not mean he's "nothing".

Nymr83 Oct 28 2005 06:22 PM

well, nobody is ever literally nothing. when i call someone "nothing" you can translate that to "better players are readily available and possibly already within the organization." thus making my victim worth next to nothing to his team. that is the context in which i'm calling matsui "nothing." if you want to put forth some stats showing that none of the internal (or easily available external) options are better players i'm all ears

Valadius Oct 28 2005 10:11 PM

The first thing we need at second base is a glove. He has to play good defense. Next is hitting for average, followed by speed and power. I want a second baseman that'll hit .285 with 15 homers and 15 steals minimum.

Elster88 Oct 28 2005 10:13 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Oct 28 2005 10:19 PM

Nymr83 wrote: if you want to put forth some stats showing that none of the internal (or easily available external) options are better players i'm all ears It's been done. Ad nauseum. It all comes down to burden of proof. We have Matsui. If you want to propose someone you think is better (as Dickie Johnshot does with Ray Durham) then go ahead. It doesn't fall to me to show the guy is better than every 2Bman on another team or every middle infielder on the farm. Note: Anderson Hernandez's triple A stats don't count.

Elster88 Oct 28 2005 10:18 PM

Valadius wrote: The first thing we need at second base is a glove. He has to play good defense. Next is hitting for average, followed by speed and power. I want a second baseman that'll hit .285 with 15 homers and 15 steals minimum. I'm sure everyone does. Now who can we find to do this? See that's the problem. Everyone wants a second baseman like this, or a first baseman who will make a run at the triple crown, or a starter who will accumulate 300 strikeouts. Simply saying "He should do this this and this" is a complete waste unless you have an idea for a particular player. Besides, I would say these numbers are within Matsui's capability. Maybe not 15 HRs, but with the right number of doubles and triples he'd make up for that if he only hit 5-8 HRs. It might be easier if morons weren't booing him at Shea or claiming that Miguel Cairo should start at second. (I'm not talking about you Valadius)

Valadius Oct 28 2005 10:39 PM

One person just made available - Rich Aurilia.

Nymr83 Oct 28 2005 10:52 PM

]See that's the problem. Everyone wants a second baseman like this, speak for yourself. i'll place power well above speed and "hitting for average" doesn't mean much when your OBP stinks and you have no power.

Nymr83 Oct 28 2005 11:06 PM

Aurilia was good once, I'm not sure what he has left or how he plays at 2B. In 2005 he did this: .282/.338./.444 (in cincy's bandbox) for an OPS+ of 99 (matching his career number of 102 nicely.) He is a natural SS, but played 68 games at 2B last year, does anyone know if he's good there? Can he replicate the .282./338./.444? I's say that is VERY doubtful since he is 34 years old, those were his best numbers in 5 years, and Shea is almost the opposite of Great American Ballpark. If you reduce those numbers to something more like .275/.325/.420 for Shea Stadium and other factors i'd say that a group of Anderson Hernandez, Jeff Keppinger, Kaz Matsui, Marlon Anderson, Chris Woodward, etc. would put up equivalent numbers. IMO Aurilia is nothing we don't already have. Durham definetaly intrigues me more, but trade rumors and fre agents are two entirely different things and i can't get my hopes up on aquiring him just yet.

Edgy DC Oct 30 2005 07:16 PM

]Edgy, YOU picked one stat (the 32 doubles)... . No, I didn't. I said a lot more than that, and described his statistical bottom line as being in the middle for shortstops. Do you want me to post the OPS numbers for National League shortstops of 2004 for you? ]...and i said that even with them his SLG% wasnt so good. No, you didn't. You said it was disgusting. It's not. ]besides which, that slg% wasn't even this year! this year he was down in the land of rey ordonez. If you're willing to read what I wrote, I think my comments make it pretty clear that I don't need to be told that. Regarding the minimum of 15 homers: The Mets have had --- what? --- three secondbasemen in their history with 15 homers? Add Tim Teufel's 14 in a part-time gig 1987 and you can fudge and get four.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 03 2005 10:04 AM

The Globe and Mail suggests the Jays would be open to trading Orlando Hudson to make room for Aaron Hill. Hudson is nobody's idea of a superstar but he's 27, a switch hitter and an excellent fielder. Think Kaz Matsui with less speed and a better glove. He would make a whiz-bang "career-switch" into a backup role a la Woody/Relaford and in the event of a trade of Matsui might fill his role well.

smg58 Nov 03 2005 10:38 AM

Hudson's glove makes him a very viable option if no better alternatives present themselves. His OPS this year was as good as Matsui's in 04, and unlike Matsui he's proven he's capable of better. If we do a good job upgrading the offense in other places, I think he'd make a great fit. And the Jays might take somebodly like Zambrano in return. I see no reason not to pursue this.

Elster88 Nov 03 2005 11:41 AM

Nymr83 wrote: ]See that's the problem. Everyone wants a second baseman like this, speak for yourself. i'll place power well above speed and "hitting for average" doesn't mean much when your OBP stinks and you have no power. If you didn't cherry pick half of a sentence, you would realize that I had the word OR in there indicating that not everyone wants exactly a second baseman that was described. My point was that everybody wants good players, the problem is finding someone who is available that fits the description you are looking for. Everyone clams up when that happens, but is quick to attack the guy who they don't like. Still waiting for the ]internal (or easily available external) options that should replace Matsui with the reminder that minor league stats do not guarantee a productive major league player.

MFS62 Nov 03 2005 12:04 PM

My concern with Hudson is that he has been a dome/turf player. Boys and girls, can you say "Kaz Matsui"? (OK, in Japan, Matsui played almost all his games under those conditions, Hudson plays about half) But I wonder what Hudson's home/away fielding splits look like. And I would imagine playing half his games on turf has a positive impact of his offensive numbers, too. But from what I've seen when he played at Yankee Stadium, he looks pretty good.(limited sample) Let's just say I am cautiously positive about him. Later

smg58 Nov 03 2005 10:13 PM

This past year Hudson had a .717 OPS at home and a .738 OPS on the road, with .724 at home and .762 on the road between 02 and 04, so it doesn't appear that the turf helped him. His weakness is that he is not all that good right-handed: the lefty/righty OPS differentials are .774/.606 for 05 and .785/.616 for 02-04. That could leave an opening for Keppinger as a platoon player on this level, though. If the Jays could use Zambrano (or even Trachsel, if they have somebody else worth having to throw in), I'd be happy to talk shop with them. While we're discussing options, can anybody here familiar with the Red Sox comment on Bill Mueller's willingness or ability to play second base full-time?

Johnny Dickshot Nov 20 2005 09:46 AM

Post today sez the Mets are asking about Grudziealanek, who would presumably inherit the Frank Tanana Memorial Polish Guy Roster Slot from Mientkiewicz, Bah, I say.

GYC Nov 20 2005 12:05 PM Luis Castillo?

http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&show=NL&id=5676 The Marlins and Mets have reportedly been discussing a Luis Castillo deal for the last two weeks. The Mets tried to get Castillo when he was a free agent two years ago. The second baseman is owed $5 million in 2006 and there's a $5.75 million club option for 2007 with a $500,000 buyout. It's safe to assume the Marlins are asking for pitching in return. They might also want a middle infielder, either Anderson Hernandez or Jeff Keppinger.

Nymr83 Nov 20 2005 01:29 PM

the mets shouldnt take that salary off the marlins hands and possibly give them a way to keep delgado.

Edgy DC Nov 20 2005 05:29 PM

]It's safe to assume the Marlins are asking for pitching in return. They might also want a middle infielder, either Anderson Hernandez or Jeff Keppinger. I'm thinking Matsui maybe.

MFS62 Nov 20 2005 05:57 PM

Castillo is a speed player who is approaching the age when speed starts to decline (unless your name is Ricky Henderson). I'd tread carefully. Later

sharpie Nov 20 2005 06:06 PM

I'm not crazy about having 2 similar guys at the top of the lineup, one on the way up and one on the way down. No to Castillo.

Valadius Nov 20 2005 06:07 PM

I'd like someone with a little more pop.

OlerudOwned Nov 20 2005 06:09 PM

Valadius wrote: I'd like someone with a little more pop. Basically, what Kaz would've ideally turned out to be?

Valadius Nov 20 2005 06:10 PM

Essentially, with a little extra glove.

cleonjones11 Nov 20 2005 07:58 PM Julio Lugo?

Gap hitter with great speed..makes contact..above average defense and can play second and third. Why not? he is available... Regarding Kaz what is the Japanese word for whipping boy?

GYC Nov 20 2005 09:58 PM

Castillo also has a 38-game hit streak at Shea Stadium. I'll try to find where I read that earlier.

smg58 Nov 21 2005 12:01 AM

Castillo did have a .391 OBP last year. There's something to be said for that. He's no longer a big-time base stealer, though. How has his defense been lately? Somebody was also reporting that the Mets were looking at Mark Grudzielanek. He can field the position and is a pretty good hitter, and he might come cheap.

Rotblatt Nov 21 2005 01:09 PM

I don't really care about stolen bases. Castillo's a good hitter who works the count & draws walks. His OBP for the last 3 years has been .381, .373 & .391. He's EXACTLY what we need at the top of our order, IMO. And he's only 30--I'd think he has a few more good years in him. I wouldn't give up Heilman or Seo for him, and Zambrano's probably too expensive for the Fish, so that's a bit of a problem. Maybe if we take on LoDuca at the same time, we could get away with Zambrano & Anderson Hernandez for Castillo & LoDuca. LoDuca pretty much sucks, IMO, but maybe we could move him to Colorado.

Nymr83 Nov 21 2005 01:45 PM

i didnt realize he was only 30 and his that his OBP was so good 3 straight years, i guess i'm on the Castillo bandwagon, lets get him....butnot if it stops us from getting Delgado.

seawolf17 Nov 21 2005 01:48 PM

I know Castillo was injured at the end of last year... something with his shoulder, IIRC. Not the end of the world for a top-of-the-order guy, but it was affecting his infield play -- he couldn't throw. I'm not necessarily against sticking him out there and batting him in the two-hole 160 times next year, but there is a small red flag there.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 21 2005 01:52 PM

Just an observation, but Castillo to me is starting to resemble the latter-day Luis Sojo and Carlos Baerga around the midsection.

Nymr83 Nov 21 2005 02:10 PM

was Sojo ever good? i'm in class without time to check numbers... it would be scary if he lost it the way Baerga did.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 21 2005 02:19 PM

I just meant they all got fat.

Elster88 Nov 21 2005 02:42 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Just an observation, but Castillo to me is starting to resemble the latter-day Luis Sojo and Carlos Baerga around the midsection. Fonzie too.

Rotblatt Nov 28 2005 11:47 AM

Several of the rags think that we're no longer after Soriano. One (forget which) speculates that Willie's the reason behind our disinterest in Soriano. Willie allegedly isn't crazy about Soriano for the following reasons: strikes out to much doesn't walk enough doesn't make adjustments to pitchers bad defense If Willie's helped Omar steer clear of Soriano, than thanks, Willie! Graffanino & Grundzelanicadfkjda are both seeking 3-year deals, which, IMO, means we should be looking elsewhere unless they come down. The rags also agree that we're not actively pursuing Furcal now.

seawolf17 Nov 28 2005 11:50 AM

Plus, I believe Furcal was quoted as saying he "ain't going to no Mets."

Nymr83 Nov 28 2005 11:51 AM

thankfully. Furcal is a terrible fit for this team. he is a BAD hitter who is worth having (perhaps) as a gold-glove SS. as a guy learning a position at 2B he's a liability. I'd rather keep Matsucki

metirish Nov 28 2005 11:56 AM

Grudzielanek could compete for longest name to ever play for the Mets....he ties Isringhausen if my eyes are not fooling me..

metirish Nov 28 2005 12:03 PM

Well a quick look and probably a bunch of players have 12 letters...how could I forget Mientkiewicz..

Frayed Knot Nov 28 2005 01:20 PM

Given the improvements, or anticipated improvements, made in other areas: 1st base, catcher, closer; plus having a few readily available replacement-level players for 2nd base: Keppinger, Andy-Handy; I'd roll the dice on getting at least a decent-enough season out of Matsui. There's talent in there somewhere and seeing it finally come out for a sustained period is as good a bet as many of the alternatives.

Vic Sage Nov 28 2005 02:03 PM

ditto.

Yancy Street Gang Nov 28 2005 02:08 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Given the improvements, or anticipated improvements, made in other areas: 1st base, catcher, closer; plus having a few readily available replacement-level players for 2nd base: Keppinger, Andy-Handy; I'd roll the dice on getting at least a decent-enough season out of Matsui. There's talent in there somewhere and seeing it finally come out for a sustained period is as good a bet as many of the alternatives. I'm on board with that, too.

Vic Sage Nov 28 2005 02:11 PM

in other words: "double ditto."

Elster88 Nov 28 2005 02:17 PM

YES! You guys are the best. Get Omar and Willie on board.

sharpie Nov 28 2005 02:25 PM

Triple ditto.

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 02:31 PM

Well, Delgado donning another number has to be worth some indication.

ScarletKnight41 Nov 28 2005 02:36 PM

True - I remember Komiyama's 17 being given away even before he was gone.

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 02:44 PM

I have no particular jones for Furcal at all, but he's a "BAD" hitter who has been a better hitter than any fulll-time shortstop the Mets have ever had.

Nymr83 Nov 28 2005 05:39 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I have no particular jones for Furcal at all, but he's a "BAD" hitter who has been a better hitter than any fulll-time shortstop the Mets have ever had. i'd be all in favor of getting him to play SS if we had a hole there, but we don't. why would you want to take a guy with a sub 100 ops+ and change his defensive position?

rpackrat Nov 28 2005 06:09 PM

]why would you want to take a guy with a sub 100 ops+ and change his defensive position? Because a 100 ops+ is the league average, park-adjusted. The average for middle infielders is considerably lower (though I'm too lazy to look it up right now). And Furcal has played a lot of 2B in winter ball, so he probably won't have any problem making the change.

Nymr83 Nov 28 2005 06:40 PM

rpackrat, i'm not too lazy to look it up...but its simply not there! i've seen several discussions of people on other sites asking about it but the actual numbers are nowhere to be found.

Edgy DC Nov 28 2005 10:09 PM

]Edgy DC wrote: I have no particular jones for Furcal at all, but he's a "BAD" hitter who has been a better hitter than any fulll-time shortstop the Mets have ever had. ]i'd be all in favor of getting him to play SS if we had a hole there, but we don't. why would you want to take a guy with a sub 100 ops+ and change his defensive position? I have no particular jones for Furcal at all.

sharpie Nov 29 2005 04:23 PM

Edgy's lack of jones for Furcal has made him look elsewhere: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2241012

Yancy Street Gang Nov 29 2005 04:31 PM

So it's the Cubs, Dodgers, or Braves. I'm okay with it being Chicago or L.A. ]The Mets, who had chased Furcal hard earlier in the winter, now are apparently out of this race -- in part because they wanted him to change positions and play second base. Did they really chase him hard? I hadn't gotten that sense.

Frayed Knot Nov 29 2005 10:04 PM

'Chased Hard' is sportswriter speak for 'mentioned at least once'

Rotblatt Dec 01 2005 09:36 AM

From Journal News: ]Reports out of St. Louis suggest the Mets are the leaders for free-agent infielder Mark Grudzielanek. He would compete with Kaz Matsui for the second-base job or to fill the super-sub role held by Miguel Cairo, whom the Mets will not bring back. http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051201/SPORTS01/512010381/1108/SPORTS01 Grudzielanek, a SS turned 2B who has also played a bit of 3B, turns 36 this year, but has posted OPS's of .782, .779 & .741 the last three years while averaging 422 at bats. He hits a lot of doubles, and while he has a decent on base percentage (.366, .347 & .334 last 3 years), it mostly seems tied up in his batting average (.314, .307, .294). In other words, he doesn't walk a ton. He made $1M last year, plus $0.5M in incentives. Here's ESPN's scouting on his defense: ]The Cubs seemed to like Grudzielanek's defense more than they did Walker's. Grudzielanek turns the double play well and has a strong throwing arm. I think this would probably be a decent signing.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 01 2005 09:39 AM

I'd just as soon gamble on Matsui and keep Keppinger and Hernandez close at hand.

smg58 Dec 01 2005 09:52 AM

It depends on the price. Grudzelainek is a good fielder and would be an upgrade with the bat and glove, but not so much of one that I'd pay a lot for him. Given what we have at AAA, I don't think I'd go long-term with him either.

Rockin' Doc Dec 01 2005 01:38 PM

I would be quite happy to see the Mets sign Grudzielanek to compete with Matsui for the second base job. He could also fill the role that Marlon Anderson/Miguel Cairo did for the team last season if he failed to win the starting spot. If the Mets could pick him up for a 1-2 year deal of approximately $1 Mil./yr and incentives, I'd be pretty happy with that.

Elster88 Dec 01 2005 01:40 PM

If Grudzadjoainalek isn't obviously head and shoulders above Matsui, why bother with him? Another average middle infielder clogging up the roster?

Johnny Dickshot Dec 01 2005 01:55 PM

Doesn't seem like it's in the Mets plans or fan/media hearts but if a *true* upgrade for Matsui comes available and affordable, Matsui might make an interesting & useful Lou Collier type. He's passable in short doses at 2nd or short, I'll bet he could fake it in the outfield, he switch hits with pop, and is fast enough to pinch run for anyone. 7 mills is a lotta buckage for a reserve, but we could and have done worse.

Rotblatt Dec 01 2005 01:56 PM

Elster88 wrote: If Grudzadjoainalek isn't obviously head and shoulders above Matsui, why bother with him? Another average middle infielder clogging up the roster? K-Mat posted an OPS+ of 72 last year and 88 the year before, averaging 364 AB per season. G-Neck posted OPS+'s of 92 & 96, averaging 393 AB per season. I'd say that between 8% & 20% better equals "head & shoulders" over Matsui. And the only average middle infielder we had last year was Reyes. Cairo, Anderson & Matsui all sucked (at least when starting), and Woody & Offerman mostly played first base. I like Anderson Hernandez, but given his decline over the last two months and his struggles in Winter ball, I doubt he'll be the silver bullet to our 2B problem. Maybe Keppinger, but I wouldn't expect him to do any better than G-Neck. I think our offense will be able to carry a below-average 2B, but if we can upgrade there for just $1.5M, why not do it?

Elster88 Dec 01 2005 01:57 PM

I guess I'm still assuming Matsui is better than his numbers, and at least a 95 OPS+ guy. I gotta stop assuming. _____________________________ This post had the designation 111) Alejandro Pena

Frayed Knot Dec 01 2005 02:00 PM

Also, Grudzeyechart is coming off a coupla pretty good seasons and will shirley see enough offers to where he wouldn't take one that wouldn't peg him as the likely starter. I can't see him coming here to be a bench/platoon player. If we do go after him it seems to me that it would be instead of Matsui (to be dealt away seperately with mucho greenback swallowing) rather than in addition to him.

DocTee Dec 01 2005 02:04 PM

Hearing Kiner butcher Grudzy's name makes it worthwhile.

Nymr83 Dec 01 2005 03:59 PM

at this point i dont see them getting anyone better than matsui so they might as well give it another go. i only ask that they dont stick with him the way they stuck with cairo if he doesnt play well.

Elster88 Dec 01 2005 04:01 PM

Is Ralph going to be back to gargle his way through another season on the Mets' new network?

MFS62 Dec 01 2005 04:13 PM

DocTee wrote: Hearing Kiner butcher Grudzy's name makes it worthwhile. I always wanted to hear a Mets/ BoSox game in which Kiner had to announce a double play with Nomar Garciapara at short and Arquimedez Pozo at second. I think Kiner's ancestry is Polish, so he might not have a tough time with Grudzelainek. Later

Frayed Knot Dec 01 2005 04:22 PM

]Hearing Kiner butcher Grudzy's name makes it worthwhile. Keith butchers that one all the time. ]Is Ralph going to be back to gargle his way through another season on the Mets' new network? Haven't heard. I just kinda assume at this point that Ralph can pretty much write his own (limited) ticket for as long as he wants.

Edgy DC Dec 01 2005 04:30 PM

I think, we need to decide what we mean by average.

Rotblatt Dec 02 2005 09:49 AM

Apparently, the Marlins are definitely getting rid of Castillo & we're said to be interested. Forget where I read it, but the article I saw that in suggested that Anderson Hernandez would be the key component of the deal. If he's the biggest prospect they're asking for, DO IT. That's a great fucking deal. Castillo's been an on-base machine and we could really, really use that at the top of our lineup. Reyes can bat eighth until he figures out how to get on.

sharpie Dec 02 2005 10:01 AM

Reyes will never bat eighth for the Mets. If Castillo were brought aboard, then Castillo would hit second as he's done with Florida. The Mets are committed to Reyes being their leadoff hitter and Reyes seems determined to fill that slot. Minaya calls him "our leadoff hitter", Randolph dropped him down for, what, one or two games, and then reinstalled him there. Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

Rotblatt Dec 02 2005 10:26 AM

]Reyes will never bat eighth for the Mets. If Castillo were brought aboard, then Castillo would hit second as he's done with Florida. The Mets are committed to Reyes being their leadoff hitter and Reyes seems determined to fill that slot. Minaya calls him "our leadoff hitter", Randolph dropped him down for, what, one or two games, and then reinstalled him there. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. But sharpie, if Reyes & Castillo are 1-2, then where do Beltran, Manny, Delgado, Wright & Floyd all fit in? You'd have one of them hitting 7th and poor Pudge would have to bat eighth . . . But seriously, if I were Willie, I'd drop Reyes down to eighth in a flash if I had Castillo. You're probably right, though, and Reyes isn't going anywhere, but a boy can dream, right?

sharpie Dec 02 2005 10:33 AM

Yes, dreaming is permitted (except about Reyes hitting anywhere but first).

Elster88 Dec 02 2005 11:52 AM

I had thought Castillo was declining, but he has his best year ever in OPB last year at .391 and second best year ever in OPS (only .726).

Edgy DC Dec 02 2005 11:57 AM

He seems to go through an extended slump every year that makes him look finished when the Mets and Marlins matchup. Four weks later they match up again and he's on fire.

heep Dec 02 2005 01:08 PM

Didn't Castillo have a bad leg injury last year? How is his health? Why trade Hernandez for Castillo? I would not advocate that trade. Hernandez is fast, real good glove, versatile, switch hits, 22, hit over .300 last year, hitting over .300 this winter. Maybe he is a younger, healthier version of Castillo. Give him a shot. I say, dump Matsui, platoon Kepp and Hernandez. Hernandez and Kepp, (but more so Hernandez) are ahead of Matsui defensively anyhow. If I see Matsui botch a routine DP ball this year I will puke. Like that one against the Yanks at Shea. Deplorable at best.

Elster88 Dec 02 2005 01:17 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 02 2005 01:25 PM

Gotta love those minor league and winter ball stats. So Hernandez hits over .300 in those places, and that means he is preferable to a 30 year-old career .293 hitter (.303 since 2003)? ]Hernandez is fast, real good glove, versatile, switch hits So is Castillo ]I say, dump Matsui How is this to be done? ]platoon Kepp and Hernandez The idea that two minor leaguers will be successful as a platoon on the ML level because they have good minor league numbers is incredibly shaky at best, stupid at worst. But I'm not all that surprised that you are advocating this considering your reaction over the loss of Mike Jacobs, future hall of famer. I think there is an overwhelming tendency to overrate the ability of minor leaguers because they have played well for the B-Mets or Norfolk Mets. D-Wright and Reyes are the exception, not the rule. ]Hernandez and Kepp, (but more so Hernandez) are ahead of Matsui defensively anyhow. What are you basing this on? My guess is gut feelings and anecdotal evidence. Even leaving Matsui's shaky defense aside for a moment, how many balls have you seen Hernandez and Keppinger field? Hernandez played 6 games in his major league career yet his defense is somehow obviously ahead of Matsui's (more so than Keppinger's) You must catch a lot of minor league games to know this. ]If I see Matsui botch a routine DP ball this year I will puke. Like that one against the Yanks at Shea. Deplorable at best. *sigh* MATSUI SUCKS!!!!!

Edgy DC Dec 02 2005 01:21 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 02 2005 01:23 PM

I think dumping is a bad idea, if I'm correctly inferring that you mean to advocate Matsui's release. There's little evidence --- and I expect that the Mets agree --- that Keppinger is better defensively than Matsui right now. I expect that the evidence is specious that either is better than him right now offensively. ]If I see Matsui botch a routine DP ball this year I will puke. Like that one against the Yanks at Shea. Deplorable at best. This is a problem with player-hatin', we resent what we've seen, but romanticize the unseen. I imagine Keppinger botched more than his share of plays in his career and will yet, but it's been below the radar. Anderson, of course, was an offensive zero before this past season and Met fans were largely flabbergasted as to why the team traded Wilson for such a failed prospect OE: Elster beats me to the punch, but I used "specious."

Centerfield Dec 02 2005 01:22 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 02 2005 01:54 PM

If all they're asking for is Anderson Hernandez, I can't sign fast enough. Hell, I'll throw in Keppinger too so Buster Olney can accuse me of overpaying. On Edit: (Link to now moot article removed)

Frayed Knot Dec 02 2005 01:43 PM

Well, Castillo is now a Minnesota Twinkie, dealt for a pair of minor leaguers (didn't hear which ones). So it's on to Plan B for you Castillo fans.

sharpie Dec 02 2005 01:46 PM

Here's the story http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2245065

Centerfield Dec 02 2005 01:47 PM

Included in the deal was 24 year old Travis Bowyer who should compete for the role of closer. Minnesota was willing to give up pitchers. I'm glad we weren't willing to give up our's.

Yancy Street Gang Dec 02 2005 01:48 PM

Wow, the Marlins are really purging quickly. They probably want to get rid of everybody as early as possible to help with their 2006 season ticket sales.

Elster88 Dec 02 2005 01:51 PM

Batting eighth, the second baseman, Kazuo Mat-SU-ee.

MFS62 Dec 02 2005 01:52 PM

Maybe they just have limited seating on the major league lifeboats for when that ship finally sinks. Later

sharpie Dec 02 2005 02:06 PM

Good deal for the Twins.

MFS62 Dec 02 2005 02:16 PM

Castillo should hit very well on the carpet at the Baggie-Dome. Later

metirish Dec 02 2005 02:23 PM

Playing on the carpet might not do Castillo's balky knees/ankles hammies and back any good, he has injury problems ,right?

MFS62 Dec 02 2005 02:33 PM

metirish wrote: Playing on the carpet might not do Castillo's balky knees/ankles hammies and back any good, he has injury problems ,right? That's the possible down side to him. I took the glass half full view. Later

Rotblatt Dec 02 2005 02:42 PM

Great deal for the Twins. I don't think either guy was high on their depth chart and they've got plenty of minor league arms. 2B was a real problem for them last year. If they sign a competent 3B, they should be out of the cellar offensively . . . Mauer should improve and if Morneau gets his act together, they might even be an average offense. With their staff, that would make them tough to contend with.

rpackrat Dec 02 2005 02:47 PM

I like Castillo, but I don't think he's a good fit for the Twins. They're already overloaded with infielders with no power. Their outfielders don't have a ton of power either. While a high OBP is always nice, the Twinkies really need a couple fo guys who can hit the ball over the fence.

Rotblatt Dec 02 2005 03:27 PM

]I like Castillo, but I don't think he's a good fit for the Twins. They're already overloaded with infielders with no power. Their outfielders don't have a ton of power either. While a high OBP is always nice, the Twinkies really need a couple fo guys who can hit the ball over the fence. Well, I hear you. They had absolutely zero power last year. However, IMO, most of that was due to an uncharacteristically bad year by Stewart & a suprising lack of power from Morneau & Mauer. I really think Mauer's golden and will continue to improve and would be shocked if Morneau didn't as well. It looks like he mostly got really unlucky (.254 BABIP after posting ~.300 in the minors and .275 in the bigs the year before). Kubel also looks like the real deal, although he might not be ready at the start of the year. Meanwhile, they were 10th in the AL in OBP last year, and the only returning Twin who posted better than .340 is Mauer. Even WE had 3 guys with better OBP than that, and we sucked at getting on base last year. Castillo can definitely help in that department,. And, of course, Castillo's an excellent defender, which will help . . .

Elster88 Dec 02 2005 03:39 PM

Speaking of Castillo, et al, I'm guessing that the NL wildcard comes out of the east this year.

Nymr83 Dec 02 2005 06:16 PM

Elster88 wrote: Speaking of Castillo, et al, I'm guessing that the NL wildcard comes out of the east this year. wouldn't be suprising since NY, PHI, and ATL now have a punching-bag Marlins team similiar to what the AL East has in Tampa

abogdan Dec 05 2005 08:31 AM

Gammons was reporting on ESPN last night that the Mets will sign Grudz on Thursday to avoid giving up a draft pick.

Valadius Dec 05 2005 09:26 AM

Seriously??? Wow. If so, could we hurry up and move Matsui?

seawolf17 Dec 05 2005 09:32 AM

Why would a team take Matsui off our hands when Omar would rather give up a prospect or eight?

Elster88 Dec 05 2005 09:41 AM

I doubt Matsui is going anywhere. No one wants his contract. The MATSUI SUCKS!!!! crowd would do well to realize this.

metirish Dec 05 2005 09:45 AM

I'd like to see Kaz as the opening day 2nd baseman, he's become something of a sympathetic figure in my opinion, at least to me anyway.

Centerfield Dec 05 2005 10:34 AM

Grudzialanek is another guy who, like LoDuca, posts a decent BA but doesn't walk and doesn't hit for power. Given that signing him would mean both paying him and eating Matsui's contract, I'd just as soon run Kaz out there and see what he's got.

MFS62 Dec 05 2005 12:35 PM

Over the weekend I heard this comment on the radio (forget whether it was Jody MacDonald or Ed Coleman): (I paraphrase) If Matsui has any defensive strength, it is going to his left. And with Delgado at first, they will need a second baseman who can help cover the 1B/2B hole. Reyes has enough range to cover balls hit up the middle. If that is true, could be they will give Matsui another chance. (or if it was Eddie C, he's singing the house tune in case the Mets can't get anyone better/ move Matsui). Later

rpackrat Dec 05 2005 03:37 PM

I'm cool with Grudz if it's just a one year deal (this will be his age 36 season). Gridz and Lo Duca batting 7-8 is really not bad.

Edgy DC Dec 19 2005 09:33 AM

Mostly old perspective on Kazuo Matsui, but it references some new perspective.

Nymr83 Dec 19 2005 06:53 PM

]Grudzialanek is another guy who, like LoDuca, posts a decent BA but doesn't walk and doesn't hit for power. Given that signing him would mean both paying him and eating Matsui's contract, I'd just as soon run Kaz out there and see what he's got. his OBPs the last 3 years in order: .366, .347, .334(career is .330) any of those numbers would be acceptable (the average of the 3 is .349...a number i'd love to have) you're right that he lacks power and he is old. if it's a 1-year deal i'd jump to unload Matsui, but otherwise he's not enough of an upgrade to bother

Edgy DC Dec 19 2005 07:36 PM

The piece is speckled with some curious inconsistencies. He calls Matsui an unmitigated bust, then seeks to lists the various mitigating data. He makes insupportable pro-fan statements like, "As much as Mets fans have disliked certain players in the past, the waves of displeasure have always been held back due to a player's ability to own up to their mistakes, to ask for forgiveness and to proclaim their readiness to go back out there and do better next time." Still liked him scratching beneath the surface.

Nymr83 Dec 19 2005 09:37 PM

that is a pretty weird statement about the fans.

Edgy DC Dec 20 2005 03:37 PM

Indeed. Meanwhilst, the Hochster talks to Keppinger.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 20 2005 03:49 PM

"I grant, I'm not one of those little speedy guys who can run all around the field and who can make stupid plays" We're kind of set, Jeff, with players who can make stupid plays.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 20 2005 04:10 PM

I can't believe he blew his opportunity to provide us with much-needed Wifey Watch material. What kinda journalist is Hoch growing up to be?

OlerudOwned Dec 29 2005 03:22 PM

http://metsdaily.com/news.asp?ItemID=234&rcid=71&pcid=5&cid=71 Anderson Hernandez is Dominican Winter ROTY

Edgy DC Dec 29 2005 03:40 PM

Yeah, it's really come down to the Mets having four secondbaseman ripening at once. Among Kazuo Matsui plus the four , they should be able to find some production there without doing anything drastic.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 30 2005 08:07 AM

Whatever else he's guilty of, I love watching Matsui drive the ball to the gaps. They're really gorgeous hits. Check out: triple 9/14 [url]http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player_media.jsp?player_id=430565[/url]

Edgy DC Dec 30 2005 09:29 AM

Back on the 19th, I linked to a Matsui essay over at MetsGeek. I then proceeded to get in an a stupid cockfight with some boobirds (and a guy --- "fire willie" was his name -- who says he isn't a boobird but spoke as their champ). Blog responses are not the best outlet for a back-and-forth exchange. It turns out that Andrew, before writing that essay, went and did some good digging at this board, and started a fine conversation, despite all the links leading you elsewhere.

Elster88 Dec 30 2005 09:30 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Whatever else he's guilty of, I love watching Matsui drive the ball to the gaps. They're really gorgeous hits. Check out: triple 9/14 [url]http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player_media.jsp?player_id=430565[/url] I can never get the mlb.com clips to play.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 30 2005 09:49 AM

That's the problem with Mets Geek. I think it's a good idea and well done, but ... how to put this ... the contributing readership really isn't up to the standards of the staff. I don;t know how often I've been moved to comment only to be turned off by the rotten flavor of the discussion. The "Westbaystars" character on that other site has to be among the most famous posters in the history of Internet baseball discussion. Great stuff.

Edgy DC Dec 30 2005 10:18 AM

There's a lot of info there that I hadn't gotten before about Matsui's health problems being foreshadowed in his last years in Japan. How many of us knew his manager had done some DH-stashing of KazMat?

Elster88 Dec 30 2005 10:21 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Back on the 19th, I linked to a Matsui essay over at MetsGeek. I then proceeded to get in an a stupid cockfight with some boobirds (and a guy --- "fire willie" was his name -- who says he isn't a boobird but spoke as their champ). What was the thread title?

Edgy DC Dec 30 2005 10:28 AM

Page seven of this thread. Edgy DC wrote: Mostly old perspective on Kazuo Matsui, but it references some new perspective.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 30 2005 10:30 AM

I just read the discussion -- "A funny thing happened on the way to Shea" Edge gets into it with some of the louder guys, and does a great job despite it being a tough argument to win by definition == equating booing with dehumanization is met with... dehumanization.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 30 2005 11:22 AM

I guess it all depends on your own feelings, J.D., about Kaz, about booing, about Edgy, about argumentation--personally, I felt that Edgy was getting his ass kicked six ways from Sunday, and making himself sound like a peevish sanctimonious self-congratulatory idiot in the process. I was very glad this "Fire Willie" character was catching-- and dishing out--all that stuff instead of me. Edgy could use most of the same rhetorical devices in the negative side of a "Resolved: Water is Wet" debate, but water won't be any drier as a result, though his antagonists will feel abused and patronized, which may be the goal he's shooting for in the first place.

Edgy DC Dec 30 2005 11:23 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 30 2005 06:05 PM

The use of "dehumanizing" wasn't meant initialy to describe booing (although it is, I guess, but that wasn't my point) but in response to the use of "product" to describe Matsui. I see this a lot in death penalty arguments. Once you've successfully framed the argument by defining a person with non-person terms, you've won. You can justify doing anything to someone once you've declassified him or her that way. I wanted to let the poster describing booing Matsui as a means to "demonstrate our dissatisfaction with the product" that I saw what he or she was doing. It didn't work, though. A word so morally loaded just leads people to charge at you. It was meant to be a logical appeal but came out as a moral one. Bullies love that shit. If they could put moral appeals into a spread, they'd slather their sandwiches with it morning, noon, and night.

Elster88 Dec 30 2005 11:45 AM

The "right to boo" issue is one I try to stay out of, but booing is pure stupidity to me for one reason: It will not make a player better. And he knows he fucked up, so booing does not enlighten him either. _______________________ This post had the designation 92) Dave Mlicki

Bret Sabermetric Dec 30 2005 02:11 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 31 2005 07:15 AM

I'm divided on the booing issue (like most of the others on my list. I can see Kaz's virtues, I can understand what people here like about Edgy's arguing style, and I grant booers an absolute right to boo, although as anyone who's attended a game with me will attest, I don't myself indulge in booing.) It's complicated, but I feel that if you think it's okay to applaud a great play then there's got to be a counterbalance. For me, that counterbalance is normally to stay very quiet after a horrible play, but I understand why people feel entitled to voice their disapproval too. It's kinda like the whole "fan-unfriendly" issue. People who complain that Kaz makes most of his own problems by refusing to connect with English-speaking fans have something of a case, IMO, but I respect more the argument that fan- and media-friendliness shouldn't matter. I respect it more when it embraces the other extreme as well: that a smiling guy like Cameron and Reyes score no points for their fan-friendliness as well. It's great that some folks cut extra slack for autographing-giving, smiling, talkative ballplayers, but those folks are often the same ones who say "Scowling, nasty behavior shouldn't count," which seems hypocritical to me. If you give positive points for this stuff, seems to me you should also give negative points. OE: added "will attest"

Johnny Dickshot Dec 30 2005 03:29 PM

I think most fans feel okay about booing a bad play, or especially a bad effort. I probably boo more than you in that regard. Where its wrong to me is when fans boo in anticipation of a bad play, or to settle some old score with management, and justify it with a sense of entitlement and this ridiculous idea that ugly and hateful behavior does the rest of us a favor. To them I say boo.

Bret Sabermetric Dec 31 2005 06:15 AM

="Johnny Dickshot"]I think most fans feel okay about booing a bad play, or especially a bad effort. I probably boo more than you in that regard. Where its wrong to me is when fans boo in anticipation of a bad play, or to settle some old score with management, and justify it with a sense of entitlement and this ridiculous idea that ugly and hateful behavior does the rest of us a favor. To them I say boo. Let's say the Mets swap out Heilman AND Seo for Baez. Then they decide to add Rocker and Clemens to finish off the staff, and sign up Pete Rose to see if he's the solution to their second-base problems. They decide, further, to give Baez, Rocker and Clemens four- and five-year deals at big money (they give Rose only a two-year deal in consideration of his advanced age, sorta like Julio Franco, you know?), and then these four men (??) proceeed to play very poorly, despite which Willie persists in playing them regularly. The Mets have a 12-63 record in early July. You're telling me not a single pre-emptory "boo" passes your lips? I think you'd be angry with the players' previous performance, you'd be pissed as hell at Willie, you'd be furious with management for embarking on such a hopeless path--at least I'd hope you would. Just because you're not personally that frustrated now doesn't mean that other Mets fans aren't.

Johnny Dickshot Dec 31 2005 10:41 AM

Why if you're frustrated would you visit it exclusively on a single player?

Bret Sabermetric Dec 31 2005 11:57 AM

Is that what I said? I might boo Rose exclusively, if I had a long-time hate on him, and if he was tying up resources (i.e., salary) that I regretted wasn't being spent on younger, cheaper, better players, and if I thought he had some kind of unwarranted sweetheart deal that Omar gave him out of the goodness of his heart and not with the team's best interests in mind, and if I thought he was playing at half-effort sometimes, and if he was hitting under .150 and eating up a lot of at-bats, and if no one else seemed like a serious draw on the team's winning percentage. And so on. In my scenario, there are several miscreants and I might justify booing any one of them. Someone around here, you know, likes to maintain that Piazza got singled out for hatin' because he was plainly the BEST player on a losing team, so he drew a disproportionate amount of vocal disapproval, which hardly seems fair (if it were true) yet it's also true that sometimes players whose playing time is minuscule (Rojas, Rodriguez) or less than full-time (Henderson, Zeile, Zambrano) catch more than their share of flak. To my mind, this is an interesting topic, not to be swept into the dustbin of "Booing Sux so don't do it, ever, kids"--with several sub-topics, like "Is it ever justifiable to boo a player because he's signed to a contract that enriches him more than his play warrants?" Maybe we should open a whole "booing" thread, and leave this one to discuss second-base, as "booing" and "second-base" have nothing in common, other than Matsui.

Nymr83 Dec 31 2005 12:28 PM

]as "booing" and "second-base" have nothing in common, other than Matsui. that a big thing to have in common. boooo matsui boooo

Rockin' Doc Jan 01 2006 04:29 PM

In general, I don't boo players for poor plays whether in the past or present. I boo for a perceived lack of effort or hustle. Players will make errors on the field, which I can accept, but there is no excuse for a lack of effort. When I feel a player is "dogging" it, then I certainly will voice my disapproval.

Edgy DC Jan 04 2006 03:37 PM

Bret Boone has supposedly joined the mix as an NRI.

Johnny Dickshot Jan 04 2006 03:40 PM

Jeepers.

A Boy Named Seo Jan 04 2006 04:02 PM

ESPN [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2280331] confirms[/url] Boone. I hope Matsui's around to bury him in spring training.

metsmarathon Jan 04 2006 04:09 PM

is bret boone hispanic? i can't stop myself sometimes. we're going to need a lot of intersquad games in ST to play out all of our 2b options! matsui still looks to me to be our best option going forward, albeit not the best value.

Centerfield Jan 04 2006 04:11 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 04 2006 04:12 PM

I say we give Boone some steroids and get a few good months out of him until he gets caught.

seawolf17 Jan 04 2006 04:11 PM

metsmarathon wrote: is bret boone hispanic? Yep. It's pronounced Bo-OWN-eh.

Vic Sage Jan 04 2006 04:35 PM

my 2 concerns are that the sudden availability of Boone's "veteran presence" may 1) delay the progress of Anderson Hernandez and Keppinger; and 2) make it easier for Omar to justify (at least in his own mind) making the stupid Matsui/Seo-Baez trade. Money aside, Matsui clearly gives the mets the best chance for meaningful production at 2b of all current candidates, for THIS season. So, if we're moving him AND eating the lion's share of his salary, its a pointless move unless we're getting back a better 2bman (like Lugo). Baez is unexceptional... a glorified Looper. Not that that is a BAD thing, necessarily, but he's just not someone you should overpay for, especially with his expiring deal. I might trade Seo straight up for him, inasmuch as i'm not convinced that Seo is anything more than a #4-#5 starter (not that i think thats a great deal, either), but they apparently want not only Seo and Matsui (+cash!), but a prospect, too! that's NUTS. I might consider Baez + Lugo, for Zambrano or Trax + V.Diaz + Matsui, but no cash and no prospects. Then, we put Heilman in the rotation, Lugo at 2b, and Baez is the primary set-up guy. Platoon Nady in RF with a LHed bat (hopefully one better than Redman) and we're good to go. I'd still prefer an upgrade at the top of our rotation, but maybe Dickshot's ZITO fantasy comes true. Then we're a pennant winner.

sharpie Jan 04 2006 04:40 PM

Now that we've got Duaner we're not going for Joan Baez.

Johnny Dickshot Jan 04 2006 04:51 PM

She blinded me with Baez

Vic Sage Jan 04 2006 04:52 PM

after seeing the sanchez-seo deal go down, that Baez deal looks a whole lot less stupid.

Centerfield Jan 04 2006 04:53 PM

Yup (c).

Methead Jan 04 2006 05:19 PM

Smithers, are they saying "Boo", or "Boone"?

Nymr83 Jan 04 2006 05:38 PM

eeeexcellent

Johnny Dickshot Jan 11 2006 06:50 AM

Did anyone link this? Interesting piece on the dirty slide that took out Keppinger. [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/sports/baseball/10mets.html[/url] ]Injured Prospect Begins Road Back By BEN SHPIGEL Published: January 10, 2006 PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla., Jan. 9 - There was this second baseman shredding International League pitching last spring, but he felt he should be pummeling the Phillies, the Marlins and his hometown Braves. He told himself not to get his hopes up and prayed that people were noticing. The most important person, Omar Minaya, the Mets' general manager, was. He received daily reports from Class AAA Norfolk saying that Jeff Keppinger was hitting well over .300 and playing near-flawless defense. But where to put him? Then Miguel Cairo strained his hamstring and went on the disabled list. Then Kazuo Matsui bruised his knee and went on the disabled list, too. And then. And then nothing. "Keppinger's name came up several times in discussions, and we definitely considered him," Minaya said. "But in truth we never got that far because. ... " Because what? "Well, because he got hurt," Minaya said. On a steamy afternoon in mid-June, with a major league call-up perhaps a day or two away, Keppinger was spiked a few inches below his left knee in a contentious incident that left him with a fractured knee and an uncertain future. Keppinger, who was batting .339, could only watch when Anderson Hernandez, a top second-base prospect, was promoted to Norfolk, flourished and, because of another injury to Matsui, had 18 at-bats for the Mets in September. Keppinger, 25, was still watching when the Mets inquired about Alfonso Soriano, considered Mark Grudzielanek and coveted Julio Lugo. But when he arrived here Sunday night for the Mets' voluntary three-day minicamp, he was very much aware that, for all the tweaking Minaya did with the lineup and bullpen, the one area untouched was his position. "Oh, yeah," Keppinger said in a telephone interview Friday. "I've definitely noticed that." Yet again, he has reason to hope. None of Keppinger's competitors - Matsui, Hernandez, Bret Boone, even Chris Woodward - are here, and his presence reminds the Mets that he is still around and that they should not forget him. "We haven't," said Kevin Morgan, the Mets' director of minor league operations. "We see no reason why Jeff can't be back to his previous stature." He is the same person and player he was before his injury: a solid 6 feet and 180 pounds with gap power and soft hands, and limited range that he says is offset by adroit positioning and footwork. He is hardly the prototype for an everyday major league second baseman, more like a competent utility player. But Keppinger, who was more or less a throw-in by Pittsburgh in the July 2004 trade that brought Kris Benson to the Mets, thrived in Class AA Binghamton and Norfolk. He joined the Mets that August, batting .284 with three homers and nine runs batted in in 116 at-bats and figuring that would be good enough to earn a look in spring training. But the Mets signed Cairo, Woodward and Marlon Anderson, and a disappointed Keppinger returned to Norfolk last April. On June 15, when the Charlotte Knights visited Norfolk for an afternoon game, Keppinger ranked among the Class AAA leaders in hitting. But the only thing hotter than the record temperatures at that time were the players' tempers, the remnant of a simmering feud between the teams. The previous weekend, when Norfolk played at Charlotte, Norfolk's Rodney Nye pushed Felix Martinez in the face as he returned to second base on a pickoff play. Then, on June 14 in Norfolk, pitcher Jae Seo hit Martinez, who jawed at Seo and nearly confronted him before players from both teams interceded. All of this, perhaps, was on Martinez's mind as he stood at first base in the third inning that afternoon. Keppinger said it was not on his when he fielded a high chopper with Martinez barreling toward second. With the shortstop playing deep in the hole, his only option was to get to second himself. Facing third base, Keppinger touched the bag with his right foot. His left leg was planted in the dirt. Keppinger does not know for certain what happened next. He never saw Martinez's spikes enter his left leg. He only felt them. But he said he was sure that Martinez never slid. "How else could his right leg get that high up on me?" Keppinger said. "I'm not sure if it was intentional - I'd like to think not - but it's tough." Then he rolled down his black sock, which was pulled to his knee. "See," Keppinger said. "You can still sort of make out the cleat marks in my leg. There were 12. Thank God he was wearing rubber ones and not metal, or else he could have cut right to the bone." A searing pain coursed through Keppinger's leg. He crumpled to the dirt. Both benches emptied. On his way toward Keppinger, Norfolk Manager Ken Oberkfell had to restrain Nye and Chris Basak from tackling Martinez. Oberkfell maintains that Martinez tried to injure Keppinger. "I really felt, and still do, that the guy went out of his way to hurt Jeff," Oberkfell said Friday in a telephone interview. Repeated efforts to speak with Martinez and Charlotte Manager Nick Leyva were not granted by the Chicago White Sox, Charlotte's major league club. Keppinger was on crutches for six weeks. He could not put weight on the leg. In early August, when he could walk again, he returned here for two weeks of rehabilitation. By the time Keppinger felt well enough to play, it was September. He has stayed in shape by swimming, jump-roping and using an elliptical trainer. Upon returning to Georgia, he will train with the baseball team at his alma mater, the University of Georgia. The leg, Keppinger said, feels fine, and he has no limitations on it. But this is minicamp. There are no runners rushing toward him, spikes up, eager to break up a double play. "That won't be an issue," Keppinger said. "I've never been scared before, and I'm not about to now." Oberkfell said: "If there's one player who wouldn't be intimidated by something like this, it's Jeff Keppinger. He can play on my team any time." Oberkfell intended that last sentence as a compliment. But for Keppinger, it is one of his greatest fears.

Nymr83 Jan 11 2006 07:08 AM

fuckin braves affiliates.

Frayed Knot Jan 11 2006 09:52 AM

Charlotte is the Chi Sox top affliliate

Edgy DC Jan 11 2006 10:18 AM

Fuckin' Mets who went to school in Brave territory.

Rotblatt Jan 11 2006 12:29 PM

Oberkfell had a great, nasty quote after that game. ]Keppinger’s lucky,” Tides manager Ken Oberkfell said. “Martinez literally tried to hurt him. I’m still mad about it and it happened 2½ hours ago. He could have possibly ended a guy’s career. He’s gutless and that’s his reputation. Print it and send him a copy. I don’t care. “He’s a hot-dogging bush-leaguer who runs and hides behind his teammates. I’ll say that to his face. Hopefully I’ll get the chance to do just that. What’s the saying? Payback is what? We have more games left with them this season. People in baseball don’t forget. It’s a given.” I never read about any follow-up retribution, but I'd be surprised if it didn't happen.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 11 2006 12:34 PM

Of course, when you telegraph your planned retribution like that, it gives your superiors a chance to step in and warn you off. If nothing happened, that's probably the reason.

Edgy DC Jan 11 2006 12:35 PM

At the same time, the other report says he stopped Wicked Game and The Organization Guy from going after Martinez at the time.

Johnny Dickshot Jan 11 2006 12:51 PM

It's too bad the Mets don't get another crack at Jason Kendall for who knows how long. Another unsaid disadvantage of interleague play.

Bret Sabermetric Jan 11 2006 12:55 PM

Yeah, I can't wait until Clemens gets into the NL. If that ever happens, his ass is grass.

Nymr83 Jan 11 2006 03:37 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Charlotte is the Chi Sox top affliliate well it just sounded like something to blame on the braves, oh well.

Edgy DC Jan 11 2006 04:09 PM

Keppinger and Basak, BFF.

Nymr83 Jan 11 2006 04:10 PM

time to put away the markers, kids...

metirish Jan 25 2006 11:29 AM

] By MICHAEL MORRISSEY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- January 25, 2006 -- The Mets would prefer to trade Kaz Matsui, according to numerous reports. The team's fans, judging by their vociferous boos, would rather have anybody else playing second base. But when the Mets promotional caravan kicked off yesterday at the New York Public Library, Matsui was sporting his familiar No. 25. "I'm aware that those rumors are around, but I'm here today," Matsui said about trade speculation. "I haven't produced as much as I would've liked to in the past two years, but right now I'm training hard, working hard, and trying to build my condition into spring training. "Since the first day I stepped into New York, I always wanted to play here. Because I'm very grateful that the Mets acquired me when they did, I just want to be part of this team and this organization. "I want to be here. In order to be here, I have to produce on the field." When major-league all-stars toured Japan a few seasons ago, many players and staff said they thought Kaz Matsui would be a bigger U.S. star than Hideki Matsui. But Kaz Matsui, who was an ironman shortstop in the Pacific Rim, has been beset by injuries here and has struggled to adapt. He batted .272 in 114 games in 2004, .255 in 87 games last season. His star has fallen so far, he wasn't even on the provisional 54-person roster Japan produced for the World Baseball Classic. Kaz Matsui said he wasn't disappointed, though, and he's not using it as motivation. "No, I'm not surprised," he said. "Obviously, this baseball world is based on results. "I haven't been producing compared to what I had three or four years ago. You have to be producing now. Since I can't do anything about it, the only thing I can do is produce from here on in." Willie Randolph, this winter a surprising advocate of Kaz Matsui's skills, left a message with the second baseman saying they'll sit down during spring training. The Mets signed Bret Boone to a minor-league contract, and minor-leaguers Anderson Hernandez and Jeff Keppinger also are fighting for the job. "Competition is the message that I get," Kaz Matsui said in reaction to Boone's signing. Kaz Matsui said his knee bruise has healed, and he vows to keep working hard on his conditioning and adaptation to second base. "I just want to show the Mets and people taking care of me that I can play," he said. "And that's where I'm concentrating on." michael.morrissey@nypost.com

Centerfield Jan 25 2006 12:04 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jan 25 2006 12:10 PM

I'm rooting for Kaz. Maybe he'll turn over a whole new leaf by hitting a HR in his first AB or something. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This was post #666, the Jay Satan Post:

Centerfield Jan 25 2006 12:05 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 25 2006 12:05 PM

I'm Jay Satan! Hail! (Damn, I was Jay Satan)

Elster88 Jan 25 2006 12:05 PM

Cowering in terror.

ScarletKnight41 Jan 25 2006 12:07 PM

That was nuthin'. [url=http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=2067]THIS [/url] is how you do a Jay Satan Post!

*62 Jan 25 2006 12:09 PM

Centerfield wrote: I'm rooting for Kaz. Maybe he'll turn over a whole new leaf by hitting a HR in his first AB or something. Ummmmmmm, been there, done that.

Centerfield Jan 25 2006 12:10 PM

Show off. (Directed at SK)

ScarletKnight41 Jan 25 2006 12:11 PM

When you've got it, flaunt it! ;)

Edgy DC Jan 25 2006 12:13 PM

You don't hail Jay Satan. What is this, Rosemary's Baby?

ScarletKnight41 Jan 25 2006 12:17 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 25 2006 12:18 PM

Done. I actually posted in the Bitch to Admins forum, seeking help with changing the font size. I actually wanted something a little smaller than my current font. On Edit - I was replying to Seawolf, who deleted his post while I was replying to it.

MFS62 Jan 25 2006 12:17 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 25 2006 12:51 PM

Just seen on NYFO: EDIT: about Anderson Hernandez. ]He is playing 2nd base and he is playing in sustitution of.....can you believe???.....no.......Luis Castillo And that little guy is hitting more than 400, 2 games with more than 3 hits and there's no way to take him out batting 1st. Actually the series is between "Las Aguilas"against "Licey" (his team) and is 4 wins for the Licey and 2 for Las Aguilas (It's a 9 games series). Aguilas has Miguel Tejada, Willie Mo Peρa, and Victor Diaz batting 3, 4 and 5th and the pitchers that he has face are Joaquin Benoit, Jose Lima, Julian Tavarez, etc. Also he won the Dominican gold glove playing second base. Later

seawolf17 Jan 25 2006 12:24 PM

Sorry, Scarlet. I saw that it was fixed, and I figured I'd just delete it, since it didn't matter.

ScarletKnight41 Jan 25 2006 12:25 PM

I know better seawolf. You were trying to Gaslight me! ;)

Centerfield Jan 25 2006 12:48 PM

62, who are you talking about in your post?

MFS62 Jan 25 2006 12:51 PM

Centerfield wrote: 62, who are you talking about in your post? Oops, just realized I didn't name the name. It is Anderson Hernandez. I'll go back and edit that. Thanks, Later

Johnny Dickshot Jan 25 2006 12:52 PM

If we're going to cut-n-paste quotes from message boards let's at least attempt to choose legible ones and place them in context. Not to come off like the elitist assmaster I am but this board was founded in part to escape illiterate posts, make-believe journalists, and lazy posters. (I assume the guy is talking about A. Hernandez. No need to explain).

MFS62 Jan 25 2006 01:11 PM

JD, that person calls himself "Ricardodo". Your evaluation of writing talent may concentrate on the "dodo" part of that. I see "Ricardo", and from other posts I gather that: 1) English may not be Ricardodo's primary language. 2) The post is based on either personal observation of the playoffs or correspondence with someone who has 3) This was posted as a service to Mets fans who have not heard much about/seen the playoffs in general and Hernandez in particular. Please don't shoot the messenger, Ricardodo, for performing what I'm sure he felt was a random act of kindness to Mets fans. I copied it to here for its content, not its grammar. I believe your comment about writing standards is valid, though, when we're reposting something written by a professional writer. Later

heep Jan 25 2006 01:36 PM

Bottom line - Matsui is inedequate defensively... he is a liability in the field. I say Hernandez is ahead of him defensively, and Keppinger can do no worse. Kepp is probably ahead of him with the bat in my eyes, if it counts for anything.

metirish Jan 25 2006 01:40 PM

I'm still rooting for Kaz, if ever a first month was important to a player it is to Kaz I would think, I hope he does well.

Johnny Dickshot Jan 25 2006 01:51 PM

I wasn't shooting him, I was shooting you! (Don't worry, it's not loaded. I just wanted to point out that it'd be easier to understand what you're trying to say had you explained the context and translated).

MFS62 Jan 25 2006 01:58 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I wasn't shooting him, I was shooting you! (Don't worry, it's not loaded. I just wanted to point out that it'd be easier to understand what you're trying to say had you explained the context and translated). Does that mean we have to edit copied posts? Or just say something like "I saw this post on ____ and the poster thinks____"? Thanks for the warning. I'll try to remember to duck when you decide to use real ammo. Later

Edgy DC Jan 25 2006 02:04 PM

]Matsui is inedequate defensively... he is a liability in the field. I say Hernandez is ahead of him defensively, and Keppinger can do no worse. Kepp is probably ahead of him with the bat in my eyes, if it counts for anything. That depends on what you're basing that opinion on.

ScarletKnight41 Jan 25 2006 02:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 25 2006 02:30 PM

. avi wuz here.

Rotblatt Jan 25 2006 02:27 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Not to come off like the elitist assmaster I am but this board was founded in part to escape illiterate posts, make-believe journalists, and lazy posters. Well, it's really my fault, JD. I mean, I had assumed responsibility for updating how our boys were doing in the Winter Leagues, and I totally fell down on the job. It's like I forced MFS62 into the open arms of those dirt-grubbers over at NYFO. Anyway, here are Hernandez's stats at Licey during the regular season (ending on 1/6/06): 43 AB, .233 AVG/.267 OBP/.395 SLG/.662 OPS. And here are his stats in the most recent series that Ricardo mentioned (I think it's a round robin playoff series type thing): 28 AB, .429 AVG/.448 OBP/.714 SLG/1.162 OPS Castillo isn't playing in the Dominican League at all, so far as I can tell, but the rest of the lineup info is accurate. Diaz is sucking in this series in 20 AB--.150 AVG/.182 OBP/.150 SLG/.332 OPS--but he did very well in the regular season in 39 AB--.410/.429/.590/1.019.

Edgy DC Jan 25 2006 02:34 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jan 25 2006 03:13 PM

Edgy DC wrote: That depends on what you're basing that opinion on. And not to come across as curt here; I'd just like to see the argument fleshed out.

Elster88 Jan 25 2006 03:10 PM

]Keppinger can do no worse. Kepp is probably ahead of him with the bat in my eyes, if it counts for anything. There is no possible way you could know how Keppinger and Hernandez play defensively, unless you live in Norfolk.

Frayed Knot Jan 25 2006 03:25 PM

]Does that mean we have to edit copied posts? Well, you don't HAVE to do anything ... the only rule around here as far as I'm concerned is liberal use of common sense. It's just that when something is simply cut-n-pasted with little or no context and scant attribution it takes away from the discussion at least as much as it adds to it, particularly when the passage is only semi-legible to begin with.

Elster88 Jan 25 2006 03:31 PM

At least one mod is vehemently against the reposting of messages from other boards. Or discussing people on said boards. Or even acknowledging that they exist.

Nymr83 Jan 25 2006 04:57 PM

i don't know about other boards, but when copying for a journalistic source and citing the author/site you should definetaly NOT correct their spelling/grammar in my opinion, their article (or the part you are copying) should be presented as originally written.

ScarletKnight41 Jan 25 2006 05:02 PM

Elster88 wrote: At least one mod is vehemently against the reposting of messages from other boards. Or discussing people on said boards. Or even acknowledging that they exist. We can acknowledge their existence, but I don't see the need to repost discussions from other boards here. If there's an interesting point, bring it up. But citing other boards' discussions as authority isn't going to influence anyone around here. If you want to cite the idea and then do independent research to construct a theory about it, then go to town. But if I want to know what they're saying on a different board, then I'll just hang out there.

MFS62 Jan 25 2006 09:39 PM

Did you read it? That wasn't an opinion. This was not a "discussion". It just happened to be found on a discussion board. It was re-posted for its statistical content and a fact (winning the Dominican Gold Glove). "Authority"? Shouldn't statistics be judged on their own merit? From what was written, you can gather two things: The kid is hitting well in the playoffs. He is playing second base, and is playing it well enough to win their Gold Glove. Later

*62 Jan 25 2006 10:56 PM

Centerfield wrote: 62, who are you talking about in your post? Kaz hit a HR in his first AB as a Met, went 4-for-4 if I remember correctly. It's been pretty much all downhill for him from there, primarliy for his defensive shortcomings, IMO.

metirish Jan 25 2006 11:00 PM

Well he couldn't stay healthy either, after being an iron-man in Japan he never was here...I never thought he had a great arm though...

Rockin' Doc Jan 25 2006 11:09 PM

I think Centerfield was talking to the other 62. This could get confusing. Much like the old MOFO days when Bret was known as Doc G and I was, well, me. Every time someone said "Doc" you had to figure out who they were talking to. Then there was the Hot Corner and holy chicken mix up every time a poster referred to HC.

cooby Jan 25 2006 11:14 PM

I thought the whole Jay Satan passage to be more confusing than the Anderson Hernandez stuff

Centerfield Jan 27 2006 03:50 PM

Yes. I was talking to the other 62. Sorry about that.

metirish Feb 18 2006 05:04 PM

Update on 2nd base. ] Matsui must produce or sit BY DAVID LENNON STAFF CORRESPONDENT February 18, 2006 PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- A mountain of luggage arrived Friday at the Tradition Field clubhouse for Kaz Matsui, with numerous duffel bags and cardboard boxes spilling over the edges of a wheeled cart. But with the second base job very much up for grabs in the next six weeks, Matsui had better not take too long settling in. The Japanese infielder already has been evicted from his end locker of a year ago, replaced by veteran Bret Boone, and manager Willie Randolph made it clear Friday that he's not playing any favorites -- even if the incumbent is making $8 million this year. "I view it as a real competition," Randolph said. "We're in a business where, you know what, there's no babies here. You go out, win the job and take it. I've been told by management, for the most part, that we're going to play the best people. Obviously, you've got to consider stuff like contracts -- that's a reality of the game. But still, when it gets down to it, we're going to try and pick the guy that deserves to win the job." Matsui could take the heat off the front office by dazzling Randolph during spring training, but this time of the year has not been kind to him. In 2004, when he was still a shortstop, Matsui sliced open a finger while fielding a ground ball, and the injury hurt his early adjustment to the majors. A year ago, Matsui was hindered by back problems, and that opened the door for veteran Miguel Cairo. Perhaps the biggest challenge for Matsui is simply staying on the field. "It's a huge spring training for him," Randolph said. "The competition's going to be there. We have the young kid Hernandez, and Keppinger. That's going to be an interesting spot for us, but I feel real good about Kaz. I've said all winter long that he's going to have a good year for us, so we'll see." Numbers game? The Mets traded two creditable starters in Kris Benson and Jae Seo during the offseason, so it's not surprising that Randolph refused to guarantee a spot to the unreliable Victor Zambrano while discussing the rotation. When asked if Zambrano is a lock at No. 4, the manager shook his head. "No, not necessarily," Randolph said. "You might look at our rotation and say he's pretty much in there, but I'm never going to say that because you don't know. We have three or four guys in the back of the depth chart that might step up and knock my socks off. He has to compete." At first, Randolph mentioned only Pedro Martinez and Tom Glavine as the names set in stone, then was reminded of Steve Trachsel. But with a long list of backup candidates in camp and an older rotation, the Mets are bound to need plenty of insurance. Glavine, for instance, turns 40 next month. "It's just a number," Glavine said. "In many respects, I feel as good as I have in a long time. I had as good a winter workout-wise and throwing-wise as I've had in a long time, so I'm excited about it."

Nymr83 Feb 18 2006 05:32 PM

] I've been told by management, for the most part, that we're going to play the best people. Obviously, you've got to consider stuff like contracts -- that's a reality of the game. But still, when it gets down to it, we're going to try and pick the guy that deserves to win the job." i find the honesty about contracts refreshing. going into this year i'd divide the 2B playing time: 75% Matsui, 25% whoever makes the team as the backup... if the backup plays better his time increases and same for matsui, if either one is sucking up the joint their time goes to the next guy in line at AAA. I think Matsui deserves the chance to start the year at 2B but he hasn't earned himself much rope, if he's doing poorly and someone else is doing well i'd make the switch quickly.

Edgy DC Feb 18 2006 05:34 PM

Randolph Pulls Neck Muscle Equivocating

Johnny Dickshot Feb 24 2006 09:23 PM

Bumping and continuing ... Here's the Times article I was trying to remember. Basically, I think we Matsui fans should be rooting for a spring that's not only as good as Boone's, but b-e-t-t-e-r. ]February 24, 2006 When It Comes to Second, Mets Think Defense First By BEN SHPIGEL PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla., Feb. 23 — One by one, the players whose jobs were in absolutely no danger jogged to their infield positions on Field No. 4 Thursday morning. Then followed the first two contestants in the opening stages of a reality show fit for the Mets' new TV network: "Who wants to play second base?" Bret Boone and Kazuo Matsui fielded ground balls with the starters on the first day of full-squad workouts. The prospects Jeff Keppinger and Anderson Hernandez loosened up on a back field. Boone and Matsui were afforded the opportunity to work out with the regulars because of their status as veteran second basemen, Manager Willie Randolph said. But, in a way, the groupings offered an early insight into the Mets' assessment of the only wide-open race in camp. "I can say to you: 'The job is his.' But what does that mean?" Randolph said of Matsui. "If someone comes in and plays much better, then I'm going to pick the best guy." Unlike in right field, where Xavier Nady holds an advantage over Victor Diaz because the Mets traded Mike Cameron to acquire him, there is no clear-cut favorite at second base. And there is also the possibility that General Manager Omar Minaya could dump Matsui, picking up most of his $8 million contract, or revisit trade talks for the Devil Rays' Julio Lugo, whom he has long coveted. For the moment, the race comes down to Matsui, an often-injured converted shortstop; Boone, a three-time All-Star who lost his passion for the game last season; Keppinger, a talented hitter with gap power who, after a severe knee injury last season, wants to prove that he can still play; and Hernandez, a 23-year-old who is probably still a year away. It is not an ideal scenario, but the early feeling is that Boone will win the job if he can prove that he can still play. Boone was one of the American League's more feared hitters when he played for Seattle from 2001 to 2004 and has captured four Gold Glove awards, but he was released by Seattle and Minnesota last summer because of ineffectiveness. Boone said that he had not lost any range and that regaining his swing was proving the biggest challenge. Even if Boone does not rediscover his previous form as a hitter, his defense may be enough to boost him into the lead. Barring a trade, the second baseman figures to bat eighth in the lineup, placing a priority on defense. And with Carlos Delgado, a mediocre defensive player, at first base, the Mets are in position to sacrifice offense for defense at second base. "I think baseball people know about my defense," Boone said. "If that's what's going to help my chances get back into the major leagues, then that's fine with me." Boone's presence may wind up motivating Matsui, who has frustrated Mets officials with his penchant for sustaining injuries. Matsui arrived in camp in excellent shape and repentant for his two disappointing seasons with the Mets. He hired a private coach to help him improve his agility and strength during the off-season, and then revealed the results during live batting practice Thursday, slamming a homer to center field off Billy Wagner, the Mets' new closer. "He probably just got lucky and walked in on it," Randolph said. It was tough to tell whether he was kidding. Keppinger, who was leading the International League in hitting before fracturing his knee in a contentious spiking incident last June, performed adequately during a late-season call-up in 2004, but he still ranks below Hernandez on the organization's depth chart. Hernandez, an outstanding defensive player, is the heir apparent to the job, but there is no reason to rush him. After batting 1 for 18 with the Mets in a brief stint last September, Hernandez flourished in the Dominican winter league, earning rookie of the year honors and batting .455 in leading Licey to the league championship. "I played against major leaguers all winter," Hernandez said. "I know I can play against them now." The ultimate arbiter, of course, is Randolph, a man who expertly played second base for 18 seasons. He will also decide who gets to play alongside Delgado, Josι Reyes and David Wright on Field No. 4 and at Shea Stadium.

Nymr83 Feb 24 2006 10:08 PM

]Boone, a three-time All-Star who lost his passion for the game last season Or lost his needles, whichever...

Elster88 Feb 24 2006 10:15 PM

]Matsui must produce or sit It's odd that this wasn't the requirement for Kaz or Cairo last year.

Johnny Dickshot Feb 25 2006 12:16 AM

This guy for 2B!

Zvon Feb 25 2006 06:59 AM

Matsui took Wagner deep in the 1st live BP session. And Randolf says: "He probably got lucky and he walked into it, we'll see" ???? to the press. Cripes. The kid need confidence. Whatchu thinkin Willis? For a guy who wants his players to act mature and like a "team" thats the most rediculous thing he could have said to the press. If he wants to make a joke like that with a coach or something, fine. But to say that to the press when a guy on the "team" has been struggling to fit into the majors for 2 seasons now? And he's showing possible signs that he could? Willie, you make me wonder.

KC Feb 25 2006 07:51 AM

I love when jock humor gets written about in a paper and talk radio and the internet takes one liners off the cuff and chews on 'em and spits 'em and draws dumb conclusions about 'em and questions the quotee's balls about 'em when the jock humor quote means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. And zvon, dressed like that you shouldn't be wondering about anyone.

Zvon Feb 26 2006 12:01 AM

KC wrote: I love when jock humor gets written about in a paper and talk radio and the internet takes one liners off the cuff and chews on 'em and spits 'em and draws dumb conclusions about 'em and questions the quotee's balls about 'em when the jock humor quote means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. And zvon, dressed like that you shouldn't be wondering about anyone. Thats jock humor? Hope it translates that way to Kaz. ....and never judge a man by his cowl.

Johnny Dickshot Feb 27 2006 07:06 AM

The Boone: [url]http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002831344_ston27.html[/url]

Bret Sabermetric Feb 27 2006 07:13 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: The Boone: [url]http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002831344_ston27.html[/url] Does anyone view Boone as anything other than a steroids test-case? If he does well, wins the job with a strong spring, isn't the word going to be "He wasn't on 'roids, after all" and if his parachute doesn't open, isn't it going to be "Yup, roids"?

MFS62 Feb 27 2006 07:41 AM

Keppinger sent back to New York for medical tests. http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060226&content_id=1323649&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym At least it isn't the knee that was injured last year. Later

Elster88 Feb 27 2006 08:55 AM

That's too bad. He's our second baseman of the future.

Rotblatt Feb 28 2006 12:32 PM

According to the Boston Herald (via Rotoworld): ]Tony Graffanino said that he has been told by the Red Sox that every effort will be made to trade him to a team that will allow him to start at second base. It's more likely that Graffanino will end up as a utilityman on another team, though if an injury opens up a spot somewhere, he'd be a fine stopgap. At $2.05 million, he's pretty reasonably priced. Source: Boston Herald I wonder what it would take to land Graffanino. He'd almost certainly be an upgrade offensively and he's pretty cheap. Probably not an option unless we move Matsui, but still . . .

Bret Sabermetric Mar 01 2006 05:43 PM

Anyone hear that Boone packed it in today? http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/mlb/news/AAN4007312.htm Yup, roids.

MFS62 Mar 01 2006 06:56 PM

Bret, there's a thread on it,something like "Boonerang" Check down the page. Later

Bret Sabermetric Mar 01 2006 07:49 PM

Oh.

cleonjones11 Mar 01 2006 07:52 PM Bret Boone we hardly new ya

Todays picture of him looks like that Giambi "luckiest man in the world" near death photo. Steroids kill

Bret Sabermetric Mar 01 2006 08:12 PM

BOONE QUITS—“I just can’t cut it without my ‘roids.” PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Tears welled in Bret Boone's eyes, his lower lip quivering ever so slightly. Something inside had told him to go home. Boone's 14-year Major League career came to an end Wednesday in the dugout at Tradition Field. The three-time All-Star pointed to his chest pocket, said his steroids supply was missing and announced his retirement. "Something I've based my skills on has become a major, major job for me to inject without getting busted," Boone said. "I don't think it would be fair for me -- or fair to the Mets -- to continue something I've loved my whole life and had so much dependence on, and all of a sudden that supply isn't there anymore." Boone, 37, was in camp with the Mets on a Minor League contract, accepting a non-roster invitation to Spring Training. After batting .221 in 88 games for the Seattle Mariners and Minnesota Twins last season, Boone said he wanted to leave the game on his terms—high. "At the end of the day, physically I think I could still do it," Boone said. "It wasn't as easy as three or four years ago to get out there every day, but to me, I just lost it. I lost the supply of non-detectable performance-enhancers." Mets GM Omar Minaya said that he supported the decision. Boone was absent from camp on Tuesday, when the Mets went through their first intra-squad game, and decided to retire now rather than go through the team's exhibition schedule with the body of an aged, washed-up freak. "He did not disappoint us," Minaya said. "It takes a man to make a decision. One of the reasons we brought Bret on board this spring was because of the way he plays the game -- the way he gave steroids in the clubhouse, the substance abuse he brought to the game. That substance abuse was something that was contagious. I fully support his decision."

metirish Mar 03 2006 09:42 AM

] FORT MYERS - Tony Graffanino started at second base for the Red Sox in their Grapefruit League opener against the Minnesota Twins last night, but chances are the veteran infielder will be getting a new start this spring. Graffanino, who is third on the Sox depth chart behind Mark Loretta and Alex Cora, was told by general manager Theo Epstein earlier in camp the team will attempt to trade him if it appears his playing time will be limited and a better opportunity arises. He was 0-for-3 in the Sox’ 6-3 loss at Hammond Stadium. More than a dozen teams were represented by scouts at last night’s game, including the New York Mets, who are on the lookout for an established second baseman following Bret Boone’s sudden retirement Wednesday. “We’ve talked to Tony already, and we’re going to make sure he plays enough,” Sox manager Terry Francona said. “It’s kind of a win-win situation if he plays well, and he’s a good player. He could be with us, he could potentially be with somebody else. I think we all acknowledge that. I certainly don’t want him sitting. I wouldn’t do that to him.” http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=128843

Elster88 Mar 03 2006 09:43 AM

]We’ve talked to Tony already, and we’re going to make sure he plays enough,” Sox manager Terry Francona said. “It’s kind of a win-win situation if he plays well, and he’s a good player. He could be with us, he could potentially be with somebody else. I think we all acknowledge that. I certainly don’t want him sitting. I wouldn’t do that to him.” Careful Tito. You wouldn't want your fans thinking you're putting the needs of an aging player ahead of the needs of the team.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 03 2006 09:58 AM

I'd certainly hope not. BTW, who's Tito? That's Francona's dad's name--are people calling him Tito too?

Elster88 Mar 03 2006 09:59 AM

I thought they were. Could be wrong.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 03 2006 10:00 AM

No, you're right. It's actually listed as a nickname on BBREF.com. (His dad, John Patsy Francona, is just listed as Tito, like that was his real name.)

Yancy Street Gang Mar 03 2006 10:08 AM

He's lucky the "Patsy" thing didn't catch on.

Frayed Knot Mar 03 2006 10:13 AM

Isn't Tito just one of those all-purpose ethnic (Spanish? ... Italian?) nicknames meaning something along the lines of 'kid' or 'sonny-boy'? BB-Ref, like 'The Baseball Encyclopedia' before it, lists players by the name they're best known by. I never heard the father referred to as anything but Tito hence its use as the main heading. And while I've heard the son called Tito (moreso recently then during his playing days) it's not the first thing that comes to mind ergo it's listed as a nickname

Bret Sabermetric Mar 03 2006 10:22 AM

I never heard it while Terry was a player. And I don't keep up with his career much anymore. Is he still in baseball these days?

sharpie Mar 03 2006 10:26 AM

The difference between Tony Graffanino and Chris Woodward isn't great enough to go out and get Tony G.

MFS62 Mar 03 2006 10:27 AM

I just had a flashback. I recall a conversation between Mel Allen and Red Barber about the Tino vs Patsy name for the dad. Later

Yancy Street Gang Mar 05 2006 07:45 AM

From Newsday ]Matsui upstaged BY DAVID LENNON STAFF CORRESPONDENT March 5, 2006 PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. - If not for the $8 million the Mets owe Kaz Matsui, the second-base job already might belong to Anderson Hernandez. Even though Hernandez started at shortstop in yesterday's 5-4 win over the Nationals, he's still overshadowing Matsui, who played across from him at second. Hernandez, batting leadoff, went 3-for-4, scored three runs and had a stolen base. In the first three games, he's 5-for-7 and has scored every time he's been on base. The knock against Hernandez in his brief call-up at the end of last season was that he looked overmatched at the plate, as his 1-for-18 performance would indicate. But Hernandez shined in the Dominican winter league, and he appears comfortable now, if not confident. "I think I'm ready," Hernandez said. "When they called me up last year, I learned a lot from that. When I played in the Dominican, I learned more there. I got more patient at the plate. I didn't swing at everything." It's Matsui who has looked more like a rookie so far. He went 0-for-2 yesterday and is hitless in nine at-bats with two strikeouts. Perhaps the only thing holding back Hernandez is that his natural position is shortstop, and the 23-year-old concedes he's still getting a feel for the switch to second base.

KC Mar 05 2006 09:25 AM

Someone's knockin' at the door Somebody's ringin' the bell Someone's knockin' at the door Somebody's rinigin' the bell Do me a favour Open the door and let 'em in

Johnny Dickshot Mar 05 2006 11:06 AM

It's hard to say which is more ridiculous -- 18 plate appearances last season "proving" a guy can't hit, or 4 yesterday "proving" he can. There's an awful lot of spring training left.

smg58 Mar 05 2006 04:33 PM

I never figured out exactly who it was that gave up on Hernandez. At worst, Hernandez gave the impression that he might benefit from more seasoning. But yes, it's way too early to say whether yesterday's good hiting performance was indicative of anything.

Elster88 Mar 05 2006 05:57 PM

Tim Spehr once hit over .400 for an entire spring.

Elster88 Mar 05 2006 05:58 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: It's hard to say which is more ridiculous -- 18 plate appearances last season "proving" a guy can't hit, or 4 yesterday "proving" he can. There's an awful lot of spring training left. This is correct.

Edgy DC Mar 08 2006 08:47 AM

smg58 wrote: I never figured out exactly who it was that gave up on Hernandez. I think it was the Tigers.

metirish Mar 08 2006 08:58 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 08 2006 09:03 AM

Hernandez came in the Vance Wilson trade IIRC.

Edgy DC Mar 08 2006 09:03 AM

Did I miss something when I was ill? Has Bret Boone gone home? Maybe I should read back in this thread. Player G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG OPS CLambin 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 1.000 2.000 1.000 3.000 JKeppinger 2 5 1 2 1 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 .400 .600 .400 1.000 AHernandez 6 15 4 5 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 1 1 .375 .333 .333 .708 KMatsui 4 14 1 2 0 1 0 2 4 0 2 0 0 .143 .286 .143 .429

metirish Mar 08 2006 09:04 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 08 2006 09:06 AM

Yeah he retired last week, he cried and all, said he had lost the passion.

Edgy DC Mar 08 2006 09:05 AM

Oops, guess so.

seawolf17 Mar 08 2006 11:15 AM

"Passion," of course, roidheadspeak for "roids."

MFS62 Mar 08 2006 12:28 PM

Edgy, how can AH have a higher OBP than BA if he has no walks? Do HBP count? They aren't shown. LAter

Edgy DC Mar 08 2006 12:30 PM

Not shown, but, yes, he's been plunked.

metirish Mar 12 2006 11:02 PM

keppinger is pissed and I don't blame him..... ] Keppinger Keeps Hitting, but Support Is Still Missing E-Mail This Printer-Friendly Reprints Save Article By PAT BORZI Published: March 13, 2006 FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla., March 12 — As he looked out onto the field at Fort Lauderdale Stadium on Sunday morning, Mets second baseman Jeff Keppinger maintained a tight grin, as if forcibly preventing his mouth from saying something it should not. Not far away, Kazuo Matsui, the current and presumably inevitable starting second baseman, stretched on the grass. Even though Matsui has not done much this spring — he is hitting .143, with three errors — Manager Willie Randolph said Saturday that Matsui would play the most at second in the final three weeks of camp, and that he had "somewhat of an upper hand" in the competition with Keppinger and Anderson Hernandez. Hernandez would continue to mainly play shortstop until Josι Reyes returned from the World Baseball Classic, Randolph said. And though Randolph did not declare the competition over, he added this: "Keppinger really wasn't in the mix. Keppinger was kind of a long shot, and he's still kind of a long shot, but he's there." That hardly sounds promising for Keppinger, 25, a prolific minor league hitter who missed much of last season with a fractured left tibia. Keppinger seems to understand that Matsui is the incumbent, that the Mets have a big financial investment in him, and that the job is Matsui's to lose unless the Mets trade him — which may yet happen. What left Keppinger simmering and choosing his words carefully Sunday morning, however, was that he said he had not heard Randolph's assessment of his chances from Randolph. "I had a friend who was watching a telecast, and they put Willie on the headphones during the game, and he pretty much said the same thing," Keppinger said. "Whatever. I don't know. They don't really say much to me. When they put me in to play, I play. When they send me, I go. "It's not a surprise. I figured that would be kind of the way it would go. That's all right. I get in there, I do what I can, and hopefully somebody takes notice." The Mets took notice in 2004, acquiring Keppinger from Pittsburgh in the Kris Benson trade. Keppinger has hit better than .300 in every minor league season except his first, and .284 in a brief stint with the Mets in 2004. Last June 15, he was batting .337 for Class AAA Norfolk and leading the International League with 86 hits when Charlotte's Felix Martinez jammed his cleats into Keppinger's leg on a slide into second, ending Keppinger's season. The timing was awful. Six days later, Matsui went on the disabled list with a bruised left knee. On Sunday, Keppinger was 1 for 3 with a double after replacing an ill Chris Woodward at third base in a 3-2, 10-inning loss to the Orioles. That put his spring average at .316. Still, he cannot seem to make any headway. While still with the Pirates, Keppinger said he once asked a coach why his minor league hitting did not impress people. "He said when it came down to it, I'm not a scout's guy," he said. Right now, he does not appear to be Randolph's, either.

DocTee Mar 12 2006 11:37 PM

Talk about getting a raw deal-- Kepp deserves a shot-- if not here, then somewhere.

Frayed Knot Mar 12 2006 11:49 PM

It's probably going to be somewhere else. The batting avg looks nice and all but he doens't hit for much power, doesn't walk alot, and I don't think they're too thrilled with his overall defense. Willie's opinion aside, I don't think I've ever read a view on Kepp that doesn't tag him as a utility type player at best. And now at this point he's probably been passed by Hernandez on the pecking order.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 13 2006 06:02 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: The batting avg looks nice and all but he doens't hit for much power, doesn't walk alot, and I don't think they're too thrilled with his overall defense. Almost identical offensive stats to Matsui's. How thrilled are you with HIS defense? Another face-saving, ass-covering, money-wasting, veteran-protecting move. Good job.

heep Mar 13 2006 12:21 PM

If I were Kepp I would be pissed by Randolph's comments. Willie did not do the right thing here. You don't tell a player that he is a long shot through newspapers. I think a manger should respect his players a little more than that. That sucks.

KC Mar 13 2006 06:58 PM

BS pointed this link out in another thread related to this thread ... http://theeddiekranepoolsociety.blogspot.com/2006/03/willie-randolph-threading-on-some.html

Bret Sabermetric Mar 13 2006 07:22 PM

Yeah, but you left out all my abuse. That's like a hug without a kiss.

KC Mar 13 2006 07:29 PM

It's a 14 page thread, I'm pointing out your good link find to add to it. Your thread is still there if someone wants to comment. No biggie. And, uh, can we please just stick to baseball?

Bret Sabermetric Mar 13 2006 07:35 PM

Just funnin' you, KC. You know I can't stay mad at you, you lovable lug, you.

KC Mar 13 2006 07:56 PM

Strike two.

Zvon Mar 14 2006 03:13 AM

="KC"]Strike two. Funny you should say that cause thats what I was thinkin in regards to Randolphs latest negatory "team" comment in regards to Kepp. Strike one also delt with the second base situation. I suppose saying something stupid instead of saying nothing at all, or having verbal diarrhea as opposed to tactfully sidestepping an issue without stepping on a players work or worth, dont make him a bad manager. But it sure dont help with my perceptions of him as a "team" manager. Makes you wonder if Willies trying to have some built in scapegoats should his "team" flounder. Regardless of my hopes for Matsui to come around, all indications from what I was led to believe was a competition for the spot indicates he's not the best man for the job. For Willie to not only string us along with his open competition rap, but diss Keppinger outright when it was totally unnecessary is a little distressing to me. This is twice youve made me wonder Willie. Three wonders and ..............and ..........and Im gonna start calling you Wonder Willie.

KC Mar 14 2006 09:12 AM

I have problems with the whole diss concept, always have since it reared it's utlra-popular head some twenty years ago. Kepp will probably be selling insurance by this time 2008.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 14 2006 09:59 AM

KC wrote: Kepp will probably be selling insurance by this time 2008. Send this thread off to the Predictions Archives, please.

Zvon Mar 14 2006 11:57 AM

KC wrote: I have problems with the whole diss concept, always have since it reared it's utlra-popular head some twenty years ago. 20 years ago? Wow, Im getting old. *Z throws snap ~*~* (personally, I go with anything that saves typin complete or proper words. The only reason I spell cool-kool is cuz the letters are all in a bunch.)

Johnny Dickshot Mar 17 2006 07:46 AM

Depending on the severity of Kazzy's injury, this could be it for him. I guess we'll know more today after the MRI. In case you didn't see it, he had to hold between 1st and 2nd to see whether a shallow bloop would be caught, and it when it wasn't, had to accelerate suddenly and slide to beat a throw. On the slide looked like his toe caught the dirt for a moment and his knee did one of those East-West shakes you hate to see. Fans will blame flaws in character and a million other things, but I think in the end Kaz was just too brittle.

MFS62 Mar 17 2006 08:40 AM

Since Anderson Hernandez is away from the team for a few days attending a funeral, it will be interesting to see if Willie stays with Keppinger full time, or plays Woodward at second. With Reyes still with the DR team in the WBC, Woodward has been seeing a lot of time at short. But Willie has said he wants to give Woody a look at second. Later

Johnny Dickshot Mar 17 2006 08:45 AM

Hernandez was back last night... saw him the dugout, pretty sure.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2006 10:02 AM

Andy Handy will see some time for sure. Sucks that Reyes is with the DR team but barely playing. I've seen too many injuries of a guy locking his leg up against a base. Can't they anchor them more loosely, use big ol' rubberbands or something?

MFS62 Mar 17 2006 11:11 AM

A friend of mine, a Jays fan, suggested this as a solutiojn to the second base situation. ]I think the Mets' best move is to take Lastings Milledge out to second base and start with "This is where you stand". What do you think? Later

Yancy Street Gang Mar 17 2006 11:18 AM

I'm tired of them playing guys out of position. Lastings' time will come. They don't need to rush him AND make him a second baseman all at once. If Kaz can't do it, let Andy or Kepp have a shot.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 17 2006 11:20 AM

The Boston Herald speculated that the Mets would have interest in Alex Cora a few days ago. You wonder whether this situation intensifies any efforts underway (if any) to see if they can get him, and/or whether the Bosox would have any interest in trading him.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2006 11:24 AM

Betcha Bret Boone found his passion some time yesterday evening.

Vic Sage Mar 17 2006 11:31 AM

i don't see the point in signing an Alex Cora or Grafaninno, or that type of utility infielder, to be our starting 2bman. They're no better than Matsui... or Woodward, for that matter. If the Mets are NOT going to go with Matsui (due to injury or performance), they might as well go with the cheap available options on hand. No need to pick thru somebody else's trash.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2006 11:45 AM

The thing about Graffaanino is that he hit .319 in 51 games after coming over from KC last year. Now, it's very easy to make too much of that, and say they picked his spots and all. He hit well at KC also, but they, like Boston have a hitters' park. The other thing about him is that he's beein hittting about .100 in spring training this year. They have a few more weeks to get a good look at what they've got. Here's hoping they stay in house.

Vic Sage Mar 17 2006 12:23 PM

In judging a 33-year old career utility infielder's ability, he has a .700 lifetime OPS over the course of 2000 ABs to attest to his mediocrity. Isn't that more pursuasive than the few hundred he accumulated in 2 hitter's parks as a part timer in the AL last season? Do you really think he suddenly learned to hit at age 33? Do you really think he'd approach those numbers as a starting 2bman in Shea? If so, you're goofy. And if not, why are you raising this point?

Edgy DC Mar 17 2006 01:02 PM

]Now, it's very easy to make too much of that ]Now, it's very easy to make too much of that ]Now, it's very easy to make too much of that ]Now, it's very easy to make too much of that ]Now, it's very easy to make too much of that ]Now, it's very easy to make too much of that ]Now, it's very easy to make too much of that ]Here's hoping they stay in house. ]Here's hoping they stay in house. ]Here's hoping they stay in house. ]Here's hoping they stay in house. ]Here's hoping they stay in house. Why people look for conflict where there is none is beyond me.

Vic Sage Mar 17 2006 01:09 PM

]The thing about Graffaanino is that he hit .319 in 51 games after coming over from KC last year. why people post data that they themselves regard as irrelevant is beyond me. You raised an irrelevant issue. If somebody were to post that Grafaninno hit well last year so we should take a look at him, i could totally understand you responding in exactly this fashion. That you yourself raised it, outside of any such context, to negate an argument nobody had made just seems pointless to me. but that, obviously, is just me.

Edgy DC Mar 17 2006 01:17 PM

Yes, it's just you. I raised it to show why we hear so much about him. I examined then dismissed it. It's done all the time in every quarter. It wasn't done great, but clearly enough to show where I stand. Then you actually repeat some of my dismissal, as if I didn't write it first, in order to push on me an argument the opposite of what I clearly made.

Vic Sage Mar 17 2006 01:23 PM

i said "obviously".

seawolf17 Mar 17 2006 01:34 PM

Yeah, but Graffanino's a nice Long Island boy. Bring the ol' hometown hero home. (just kidding)

Edgy DC Mar 17 2006 04:37 PM

Sprained medial collateral ligament --- out three weeks. He characterized the pain he experienced as "not that bad" and said, "I don't know how I am going to feel tomorrow." He also said the injury was "really disappointing." "Any injury is disappointing," he said, acknowledging that this one had "kind of put him back." He noted, "I'm not going to rush back."

Edgy DC Mar 17 2006 04:39 PM

It seems to me that he might miss opening day but not be put on the DL, which would mean either that that (a) Woodie or Valentin is the opening day secondbaseman or (b) one less pitcher goes north in order to clear room Hernappinger.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 17 2006 04:42 PM

They might as well put him on the DL, since it can be effective yesterday. That means they can activate him two or three days into the season. Since Kaz's recovery might go slower than anticipated, the Mets can at least have that extra player for the first several games (or more) of the season. It would allow them to carry that extra pitcher during the initial period when starters may not be able to go as deep into the game.

abogdan Mar 18 2006 04:50 PM

Kaz won't see Shea until at least May. They'll DL him, then send him down to extended spring training for a few weeks to make sure his knee is rehabbed.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 18 2006 04:56 PM

I think he's done for here. I was as willing to give him a 100 or 150 at-bat shot to start with as anyone, but that was dependent on his staying off the DL for any reason, having a bad start, etc etc etc. He's just not been dependable physically. It's sad. This'll give the others a shot, and if they suck, then Kaz becaomes an option to revisit in May if necessary. If not necessary, sell him. But for now they just ought to plan to be without him. Too bad.

Edgy DC Mar 18 2006 05:19 PM

Well, there's a remander to be seen. If the opening day secondbaseman is Woodie or Valentin, you know that it's merely placeholding until Kazuo is ready to reclaim or re-lose his job. If the opening day secondbaseman is Keppinger or Hernandez, you know that they're auditioning for a replacement, someone to help them get him out of their heart.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 08:46 AM

As with Ordonez in '00, the Mets have lucked out here, getting saved from their dumbness and CYA-policy of playing the inferior but highly paid infielder through the sheer happenstance of him getting injured. This is not how a smart club operates. A smart club looks at the inferior infielder, and says "This guy can't play for us, whatever the numbers on his contract are" and shitcans him the second they come to this point of view. The Mets OTOH play the inferior player, even groove his position for him against all logic and common sense, unless he gets injured. With just the right injuries, and none of the wrong ones, this club can contend in 2006. I'd prefer to have the Mets, and not the Fates, making their own personnel decisions.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 20 2006 09:15 AM

I read something the other day (I wish I remembered where; Newsday, perhaps?) that one reason that Keppinger has little chance is because Willie only evaluates second basemen on defense; offense doesn't enter into the picture. If that's the case, though, then why was Matsui considered the front runner up until he got injured? If Kaz brings anything to the table, it's his bat, not his glove. It's obvious that the $8 million would have dictated his playing time, and still may, once he recovers. Of course, despite what Bret repeatedly says, the Mets are hardly unique in trying to salvage something from a high-salaried player. Like him, I wish the Mets would make their determinations more on skill than salary, but clearly they don't. Meanwhile, I don't have a clear preference in the race between Hernandez and Keppinger. May the best man win. I do know that I'd rather see one of those two than Woodward or Valentin. Let's get on with the future, whatever it is.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 20 2006 09:20 AM

When did it become clear that Matsui was the "inferior" of the 3 candidates? ZiPs projections: Matsui 270/339/385 7 HR, 26 2B, 8 SB, 49 BB Keppinger 294/342/367 6 HR, 17 2B, 29 BB, 7 SB Hernandez 268/307/343 5 HR, 15 2B, 26 BB, 26 SB Defensively they would rank: 1. Hernandez 2. Matsui 2a. Keppinger Versatility: 1. Hernandez 2. Matsui 3. Keppinger

Elster88 Mar 20 2006 09:22 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: When did it become clear that Matsui was the "inferior" of the 3 candidates? Well, Keppinger and Hernandez BOTH have hit over .300 in AAA. And Keppinger is hitting over .300 this spring.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 09:27 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I read something the other day (I wish I remembered where; Newsday, perhaps?) that one reason that Keppinger has little chance is because Willie only evaluates second basemen on defense; offense doesn't enter into the picture. And how dumb is that policy? "Of course, despite what Bret repeatedly says, the Mets are hardly unique in trying to salvage something from a high-salaried player." This is kinda like arguing that you shouldn't be punished, Yancy, because all the other kids peed in the lemonade, too. If all the other MLB clubs jumped off the Empire State building, young man, does that mean that you had to? "Like him, I wish the Mets would make their determinations more on skill than salary, but clearly they don't." And that's self-destructive, to my mind. ] Meanwhile, I don't have a clear preference in the race between Hernandez and Keppinger. May the best man win. I do know that I'd rather see one of those two than Woodward or Valentin. Let's get on with the future, whatever it is. Well, if enough bad players get hurt, there's a chance to make some progress this year. Have we been reduced to rooting for selective team-improving injuries?

Yancy Street Gang Mar 20 2006 09:31 AM

If all kids pee in lemonade, I'd stick to drinking water. But I wouldn't identify one of the kids as more evil or ill-mannered than any of the others.

Edgy DC Mar 20 2006 09:36 AM

Yeah, ZIPS seems to be drawing conclusions from broader data than that. The main problem with Matsui is that he's been getting hurt a lot. It's good that they have alternatives. It was less than a year ago that Anderson Hernandez was widely looked at as the punchless failed prospect the Mets traded Vance Wilson for. I searched for the thread noting the trade but couldn't find it. I did learn, however, that Dickshot lives in his parents' basement.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 09:40 AM

Let's get serious for a moment, Yancy. As a Met fan, you want the Mets to gain an edge over the other teams, right? You want the Mets to make better, smarter choices on which players to sign, to bench, to send to the minors, etc., in the hope that these smarter and better choices will result in a competitive edge. If 29 other MLB clubs say "This guy's no good," but you think he is good and you sign him and play him, that's a good thing if he plays well, correct? So why justify a move that you think foolish by saying "That's what some other MLB clubs' policy is"? The essense of competitive edge is to do things differently from your competitors, and better, too. In the Mets' case, their policies are more exteme than other clubs in CYA-ness, but it's hardly sufficent in any case to say that other teams have C'ed their A's so the Mets should too.

Elster88 Mar 20 2006 09:44 AM

]In the Mets' case, their policies are more exteme than other clubs in CYA-ness I love how shaky theories have somehow become facts over the years.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 09:46 AM

JD-- ZIPS focuses on this year, correct? The marginal edge they're giving Matsui is in 2006, right? Not beyond? I think (if I'm correct) that Hernadez and Kepp have longer-range futures than Matsui. They may have growth potential further down the road (and the Mets control them longer down that road) than Matsui, who at best is a Met through October. So a small edge in this year ZIPS projection may be outweighed by future considerations. At a small cost in OPS for 2006, which could get outweighed by defensive considerations, the Mets may be able to develop some useful players for 2006 and beyond.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 20 2006 09:49 AM

I'm not justifying the move at all. Anytime they choose to play a player for salary rather than performance reasons, I lament it as you do. I do wish they'd be smarter than other teams. But when they're not I don't then decide that they're more foolish or evil than other teams. I'm not cutting them slack for it. I'm not saying it's okay because others do it. I'm just saying that that's the way it is, and I'll save my outrage for things more important than who plays second base for the Mets.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 20 2006 09:54 AM

I was only pointing out the careless use of the word "inferior" when you meant, "better long-range futures."

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 09:58 AM

Elster88 wrote: ]In the Mets' case, their policies are more exteme than other clubs in CYA-ness I love how shaky theories have somehow become facts over the years. The way this works, Elster, is that if you disagree with my conclusions, or my theories, shaky or otherwise, you get to argue them with me. I'm always happy to talk baseball. But I think everyone understands that that's my opinion--do you really want me to specify in every post that the opinions expressed herein are mine and mine alone, and that I realize not every CPFer agrees with my opinions, bbbyyy, at interminable length in every post? I mean I'll do it, if you really want it, but I've had some calls to shorten my posts (and some to eliminate them entirely).

Elster88 Mar 20 2006 10:06 AM

*sigh* Edit: Wow. Wally is scary looking in that picture.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 10:13 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I was only pointing out the careless use of the word "inferior" when you meant, "better long-range futures." And in the context of the Mets' overall interests, which I assume applies to all personnel issues, the word "inferior" is anything but careless. What's careless, by the way, is your using the phrase "better long-term futures" instead of what I presume you meant, "worse long term futures," either of which would apply to Matsui and not to some mix'n'match combo of Matsui and Keppinger/Hernandez.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 20 2006 10:23 AM

I didn't presume anything.

Vic Sage Mar 20 2006 10:54 AM

]This is not how a smart club operates agreed. Now, a separate exercise: Name the "smart clubs" that operate differently.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 11:20 AM

Vic Sage wrote: ]This is not how a smart club operates agreed. Now, a separate exercise: Name the "smart clubs" that operate differently. Maybe this would work as a separate thread, but I'll start here. The Yankees did very well to take starts away from their veteran pitchers (like Bud Daley and Bob Turley) and give them to promising young (but unproven) kid pitchers like Al Downing and Jim Bouton around 1962 and 1963. It would have been easy to claim that Turley, especially, was a former Cy Young winner to justify starting him for years and years, but they just saw that, while Downing and Bouton were risky, and could call their judgment into question, they seemed capable of pitching better than Turley and Daley into the future. Is this what you had in mind?

Yancy Street Gang Mar 20 2006 11:26 AM

How about a modern-day example, where there's a greater salary disparity? I doubt that Bud Daley and Bob Turley were making that 1963 equivalent of $8 million. Didn't the Yankees continue to play Giambi even when he was pathetic? (And, unfortunately, that ended up working out for them.)

seawolf17 Mar 20 2006 11:27 AM

I'd bet he was thinking about a team operating currently, or at least under a somewhat more modern financial/free agency/media overload structure.

Vic Sage Mar 20 2006 11:54 AM

thats my point, Yancy. If you want to use examples from 40+ years ago, you're ignoring the other factors that "smart teams" have to deal with in order to compete in 2006. Its all well and good to say cut or bench Matsui and play Keppinger, but Matsui still, in my view (at least until his latest injury), had more UPSIDE than Keppinger, or at least Keppinger has neither the power, speed nor defense to outplay Matsui in any significant way, so why WOULDN'T you give the incumbant the benefit of the doubt, since you're paying him $8m anyway? If Matsui gets hot, and plays as MANY scouts thought he would (not just the Mets) you've got a 2bman who can give you 20hrs/20SBs, and a chip to trade (if the Mets are out of it). If he flops, you still have a mediocrity like Keppy (or Woodward, for that matter) available. Burying him in ST would've rendered him worthless and untradeable, to no great end. Unless you really believe in Anderson Hernandez... but i don't. Not be a longshot. Where we differ is (1) our assessments of Matsui to date, and (2) that you seem to think any decision to play Matsui over Hernandez (or Keppy, or whoever) is, by definition, strictly a CYA move. I, on the other hand, understand that its their job to know more about these guys' potential than i do, and since Omar's and Willie's jobs depend on winning, not just covering their asses, they'd want to play anybody over Matsui if they thought they'd get a significant upgrade at the position. Or if they thought that maximizing Matsui's playing time early could make his contract (or some portion of it) more moveable, allowing Omar more room to make subsequent moves at the deadline (since Wilpon apparently has him working on a pretty firm budget), this too seems something a "smart club" would do. What doesn't necessarily strike me as "smart" is handing the position over to a low-walk, low-slg, low-speed, singles-hitting 2bman with limited range, or to turn it over to a guy with 1 good minor-league season (which many scouts have concluded was "fluky"), unless they absolutely had to. Now, with Matsui's injury, it appears they may have to, and if either of these guys play well, i think it unlikely that Matsui will get much of a chance to get his job back, regardless of his contract.

Elster88 Mar 20 2006 11:59 AM

You're missing the most salient point in that coherent, intelligent post, Vic: MATSUI SUCKS!!!!!!!!

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 12:05 PM

="Vic Sage"]If he flops, you still have a mediocrity like Keppy (or Woodward, for that matter) available. . And herein lies the CYA-ness of the Mets' position. The call asto when they decide he's flopped occurs precisely when his contract is drawing to its final few hours or days. Two years, and one ST, of suckitude, and you're still holding onto Matsui's potential to hit 20 HRs for you? (But why have you given upon him as Gold Glove shortstop? That, I don't get at all.) The problem with using contemporary ballplayers is that their ultimate suckitude is still open to argument. I could cite Matsui or Ishii as examples of players whose salary needed to be eaten, and there will always be those (like you) who'll say "No, he's still capable of great baseball--you don't know in the strictest ontological sense of that term bbbyyyy...." And once they're far enough in the past to draw safe conclusions, the argument always goes back to "That's not how baseball is played in 2006."

Yancy Street Gang Mar 20 2006 01:22 PM

Do you really have to go back 44 years to find an overpaid player who's since retired? Find an example from within the last twenty years. An example from well after the beginning of free agency would still be valid.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 20 2006 07:22 PM

Okey, dokey, I'll find you more recent examples. But before I do, I want to point out how the principle is not really influenced by financial structure changes. Veterans make a lot of money and have long track records, compared to younger players. Always been true, always will be true.You'll never convince me that George Weiss felt any easier wasting $40,000 of salary than Omar Minaya does about wasting 8 mil. Nevertheless, he gave( or Stengel convinced him to give) Bouton and Downing starting jobs while they had no track record to speak of.

Matt Murdock, Esq. Mar 20 2006 08:23 PM

1) the difference in salary between a rookie and a veteran has widened geometrically since pre-FA days. 2) the proportional amount of a team's personnel budget consumed by such veteran salaries is wider, as well, and "eating" a salary today can paralyze a team, whereas eating one then may have reduced profitibility, but not by much, and certainly didn't prevent teams from making such decisions. And even THEN, they preferred to go with veterans, by and large, so your hunt for examples will likely be more difficult post-FA, but not so easy pre-FA either.

Nymr83 Mar 20 2006 09:23 PM

I disagree with the proposirion that eating a modest salary (less than $10 million for one year, 8 over 2, 6 over 3, etc) would "paralyze" a team like the Mets/Dodgers/Yankeea/RedSox/Cubs/WhiteSox/Orioles/Rangers/etc. I'd say about half the teams in the majors could eat such a salary without it having a big effect on their ability to afford players, and some more teams could do it with only a modest effect. I'd say that only 3 or 4 teams would be close to "paralyzed" by it (the Marlins, Pirates, and D-Rays come to mind.)

Bret Sabermetric Mar 21 2006 07:01 AM

Also, that George Weiss didn't fundamentally believe that every five dollars in a negotiation came directly out of his hide. That's the crucial thing, what GMs and owners felt about money, not what we now know the value of their franchises, and the puniness of players' salaries, to have been. Nonetheless, the single best example of a smart franchise voluntarily doing without the services of a highly-paid superstar-- first burying him in a lineup whose star attraction he had been signed up to be, then benching him, then cutting him-- would be George Foster in 1986. As with Rey Ordonez, I'd also remind you that I'm not necessarily calling for the Mets to cut Kaz outright: first I'd have them try to trade him (even for a fraction of his so-called value: when you're trading him from the position that he's a 20 HR shortstop instead of a mediocre bad-fielding 2b man, you're not really trying to move him, are you? ). Then I;'d have them turn him into a utility infielder/pinch-runner/ pinch-hitter type and play Hernandez or Keppinger ahead of him. Then I'd cut him, if it was clear that another player could replace him easily in that role. As George Weiss and Frank Cashenunderstood, you' ve already paid him the frickin' money. The only thing he's doing in the starting lineup is covering the fact that you paid him too much money. Another thing that bothers me is this: Vic says that Matsui is still capable of hitting 20 HRs and stealing 20 bases. Let's forget about the hallucinogenic drugs Vic obviously mainlining for a moment, and pretend he's serious. If this has any chance of being true, then don't you think maybe there's one GM out there who'd be willing to obtain such a fabulous player at a nice price, in exchange for some semi-valuable property? And if Vic is indeed headed for 60 days of detox, and there's no way on God's green earth that Kaz is hitting 20 MLB HRs in a season ever, then why can't the Mets recognize the limits that 29 other GMs are telling them exist? Why? $$$$$ and CYA, is why. I don't go to ballgames to watch Fred Wilpon's fat wallet or his fat ass being covered up.

Rotblatt Mar 21 2006 07:47 AM

One of the daily rags says Hernandez is all but assured of the 2B job. Personally, I think that's ridiculous. Hernandez's line is .286 AVG/.306 OBP/.286 SLG/592 OPS, with 4 K's, no walks, and no extra base hits. That's not good. Keppinger, meanwhile, is putting up a perfectly respectable .265 AVG/.324 OBP/.471 SLG/795 OPS with 3 BB & 3 K, with 5 doubles in only 34 AB. This sucks for Keppinger, and frankly, I think it's bad for the Mets as well--and maybe even Hernandez. He looks like he could use another few months at AAA.

abogdan Mar 21 2006 07:47 AM

Just throwing this out there because you know the rumors will be starting up again. [url=http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5429850?print=true]Soriano Refuses to Play Outfield[/url]: ]VIERA, Fla. (AP) - Alfonso Soriano refused to play the outfield for the Washington Nationals in what was supposed to be his spring training debut Monday night, and general manager Jim Bowden said his biggest offseason acquisition will go on the disqualified list if he doesn't agree to switch positions this week. "The player refused to take the field, which we believe is a violation of his contract," Bowden said. Soriano, a four-time All-Star second baseman, was listed as batting leadoff and playing left field on a lineup sheet posted in the Nationals' clubhouse before Monday night's 11-5 loss to the Los Angeles Dodgers. But when the Nationals took the field in the top of the first, Soriano wasn't out there. With play just about ready to start, left field was empty. Confused players and fans looked toward Washington's dugout. The only person to emerge, however, was Nationals manager Frank Robinson. He approached plate umpire Mike Estabrook and made a defensive switch, moving Ryan Church from center field to left and putting Brandon Watson in center to replace Soriano at the top of the lineup. The Nationals already have an All-Star second baseman in Jose Vidro, so they told Soriano they want him to move to the outfield, and he indicated he doesn't want to do that. But Monday provided his most concrete - and visible - objection. "I just hope they can fix the situation," Washington outfielder Jose Guillen said. "That's up to the people upstairs and Soriano. I think everybody's a grown-up man here. I just hope for the best for the team and those guys, and that they can fix the situation. But that's pretty much not my business." When Soriano first reported to camp last month, the question of whether he would accept the switch was left open until his return from the World Baseball Classic. Soriano played for the Dominican Republic, which was eliminated in the tournament semifinals Saturday. He joined the Nationals on Monday and worked out with teammates in the afternoon, but he wouldn't speak to reporters. The Nationals acquired Soriano from Texas in a December trade that sent outfielders Brad Wilkerson and Terrmel Sledge and pitcher Armando Galarraga to the Rangers. After the deal, Washington made it clear that Vidro would keep his spot at second; Soriano made it clear that he wasn't happy. Soriano lost his arbitration case this winter and is due to be paid $10 million this season, still a record for the highest salary awarded in arbitration. The Nationals are off Tuesday, then travel to play the St. Louis Cardinals in Jupiter on Wednesday. If Soriano refuses to play in that game and again at home against the Baltimore Orioles on Thursday, the Nationals will take action. "We told him if we get to Thursday, and he refuses to play left field, we told him at that point we will request that the commissioner's office place him on the disqualified list, at that time - no pay, no service time," Bowden said. "If he refuses to play and goes home, and the commissioner's office accepts our request to place him on the disqualified list, then at that point, if he were to sit out this year, he would not be a free agent, he would stay our property because his service time would stay the same." Robinson sat down privately with Soriano for 20 minutes before the game Monday to explain the team's position. "If he's going to play here, he's going to have to be out in left field," Robinson said. "He said he's ready to play, he needs to play, he's ready for the season, and I penciled him in the lineup in left field." Robinson said the meeting with Soriano was civil, but the player's position was clear. "He's very sensitive, and he has a mind-set," Robinson said. "He lets you know how he feels." Trading Soriano, already a possibility, becomes more likely now - with less than two weeks remaining before opening day. "He's going to play left field. He needs to be out there now the next couple of weeks to play, and if he's not going to play for us, we need to know so we can go forward," Bowden said. "We obviously will field offers, but we're not going to give the player away. If we can make a deal that makes sense, we will."

Bret Sabermetric Mar 21 2006 08:45 AM

Do you think Soriano could "play" left field by standing out there while batted balls bounce to his left and to his right? This could get interesting.

old original jb Mar 21 2006 09:09 AM I can't believe that Robinson is tolerating this.

I always thought that Frank Robinson brooked no nonsense.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 21 2006 09:11 AM

I think you have it mixed up. Brooks Robinson franked no nonsense.

smg58 Mar 21 2006 10:44 AM

I do think Keppinger has outperformed Hernandez so far, and probably wouldn't benefet as much from more seasoning, but we'll see what happens. Soriano... they'd have to take Matsui and only one other player, presumably an outfielder. (Matsui, assuming he gets off the DL, would actually be an upgrade for them at SS.) I may have considered throwing in Bannister at one point, but absolutely not now.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 21 2006 10:48 AM

smg58 wrote: and only one other player, presumably an outfielder.. That would be Milledge.

Elster88 Mar 21 2006 10:49 AM

smg58 wrote: I do think Keppinger has outperformed Hernandez so far, and probably wouldn't benefet as much from more seasoning, but we'll see what happens. Soriano... they'd have to take Matsui and only one other player, presumably an outfielder. (Matsui, assuming he gets off the DL, would actually be an upgrade for them at SS.) I may have considered throwing in Bannister at one point, but absolutely not now. Why in the world would the Nats trade Soriano for Matsui and Bannister? Oh wait, you're not even willing to throw in Bannister? Bret is right, we're not getting Soriano unless a guy like Milledge goes away.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 21 2006 10:54 AM

The Nationals have a guy who's making $10 million this year, and refuses to play. They're not in the strongest of bargaining positions. Few teams are in a position to take on $10 million in late March. A smart GM should be able to take advantage of that. My fear is that Omar will be so eager to make the deal that he won't leverage that advantage.

MFS62 Mar 21 2006 10:57 AM

Putting together some thoughts about second base: From today's NY Daily News: Victor Diaz still has a minor league option. From discussions about Soriano: He's a head case, a good hitter, but lousy fielder. Idea: Hey! We have one of those. Why not option Diaz to AAA, put him on a diet, and play him at second base every day to see what he can do? From prior reports when we got him, Diaz wasn't terrible. It was just that he concentrated more on his hitting than his fielding. But now, maybe he can be convinced that improving his defense would be his best shot at becoming a major league regular. Whaddaya' think? Later

Yancy Street Gang Mar 21 2006 11:02 AM

I suppose I've heard worse ideas. The Mets don't have a long-term answer at second base, and they don't seem to have any immediate plans for Diaz. I guess they can let him play second in Norfolk and get him into the mix for next year. But is Diaz a good enough hitter to make up for his glove in the infield? Also, I doubt that he's the head case Soriano is.

MFS62 Mar 21 2006 11:16 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Also, I doubt that he's the head case Soriano is. Sorry if that was misleading. Didn't mean to imply that. I was thinking more about the good hitter, lousy fielder part. From things I've heard, Diaz' only problem is limited range. (Which is why I suggested the diet) He reportedly has good hands, catches anything near him and turns the DP well. (Those were the same things I heard from my Canadian friends about Jeff Kent when he was in the Jays' organization.) Later

heep Mar 21 2006 11:24 AM

I don't think, nor do I hope, that Soriano is on the Mets' radar. Keppinger has outplayed Hernandez this spring thus far, and if he continues to hit, play him. One paper this morning stated that the Mets have buried Keppinger. Why? Is he not likable? I like rooting for the underdog, and I am pulling for him. If he does get the opening day job, I hope he hits .350 in the first month of the season.

metirish Mar 21 2006 11:28 AM

heep if you go to page 14 here you will find an article I posted that may explain things, Jon Heyman says the Mets have no interest... http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spsori214670490mar21,0,3683967.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

smg58 Mar 21 2006 11:23 PM

Is now a good time to point out that Todd Walker had a higher OPS than Soriano the last two seasons? And it's not like he's any worse of a fielder. Nor would anybody suggest Milledge as a fair exchange.

Edgy DC Mar 22 2006 12:02 AM

]Keppinger has outplayed Hernandez this spring thus far, ... He has outhit him, somewhat. Yeah, the difference is .231 in OPS, but, at this juncture, that's the difference between a walk here and a few extra bases there. The Mets (and most objective watchers) still respect Anderson's versatility, speed and defense more. (Matsui's also.) ]...and if he continues to hit, play him. There's a strong argument that, unless all other considerations are close to even, it's reckless to make decisions based on a few dozen spring training at-bats. ]One paper this morning stated that the Mets have buried Keppinger. Why? Is he not likable? He's gotten 38 plate appearances, as many as Anderson, tied for ninth most on the team, and more time at second than anybody, save Matsui. I should be so buried.

Nymr83 Mar 22 2006 12:06 AM

smg58 wrote: Is now a good time to point out that Todd Walker had a higher OPS than Soriano the last two seasons? And it's not like he's any worse of a fielder. Nor would anybody suggest Milledge as a fair exchange. Soriano is just way overvalued, one of the best 2Bmen and (#2 hitters!) was traded this offseason and that was Mark Loretta....boy do i wish we'd demanded him for Cameron.

Rotblatt Mar 22 2006 07:55 AM

Edgy DC wrote: ]Keppinger has outplayed Hernandez this spring thus far, ... He has outhit him, somewhat. Yeah, the difference is .231 in OPS, but, at this juncture, that's the difference between a walk here and a few extra bases there. The Mets (and most objective watchers) still respect Anderson's versatility, speed and defense more. (Matsui's also.) The problem is that Hernandez hasn't walked or hit for an extra base even once in 38 at bats, and it's not like he has a strong history of doing either--he's only had a good half season. Don't get me wrong, I like Hernandez, but he just doesn't look ready yet. ] ]...and if he continues to hit, play him. There's a strong argument that, unless all other considerations are close to even, it's reckless to make decisions based on a few dozen spring training at-bats. ]One paper this morning stated that the Mets have buried Keppinger. Why? Is he not likable? He's gotten 38 plate appearances, as many as Anderson, tied for ninth most on the team, and more time at second than anybody, save Matsui. I should be so buried. Those are all good points, Edge. At the very least, they're still looking at Keppinger--or were, before Reyes got back.

Frayed Knot Mar 22 2006 10:37 AM

"The problem is that Hernandez hasn't walked or hit for an extra base even once in 38 at bats, and it's not like he has a strong history of doing either--he's only had a good half season." So you're saying that the radio callers should maybe put the Andy-Handy bronze plaque on hold for a bit yet?

Elster88 Mar 22 2006 10:47 AM

="Frayed Knot"]"The problem is that Hernandez hasn't walked or hit for an extra base even once in 38 at bats, and it's not like he has a strong history of doing either--he's only had a good half season." So you're saying that the radio callers should maybe put the Andy-Handy bronze plaque on hold for a bit yet? It's not just the radio callers.

Edgy DC Mar 22 2006 10:50 AM

They split time there yesterday. Hernandez got the first three at-bats (1-3) and Keppinger the last (1-1). I'm not saying the Mets are right if they go with Hernandez over Keppinger. I'm saying that if they do, it's likely not because (1) Keppinger's white, (2) they hate him, or (3) he smells bad. But rather esoteric stuff like projectability, defense, and versatility (if and when Matsui reutrns). I guess I'm also saying that he hasn't been buried. I agree that I'd want to see Anderson maybe find a few gaps or work out a hard-foulght walk or two --- display a full range of his skils --- before handing him a big league job.

Vic Sage Mar 22 2006 10:59 AM

] agree that I'd want to see Anderson maybe find a few gaps or work out a hard-foulght walk or two --- display a full range of his skils --- before handing him a big league job. I agree, but they handed Reyes a big league job without waiting for him to do that. What makes you think they'll wait for Handy Andy to display such skills?

Edgy DC Mar 22 2006 11:06 AM

I don't really, though Reyes was under a different regime. A few things will likely happen before this shakes out.

Vic Sage Mar 22 2006 11:11 AM

Reyes was handed the everyday job as a leadoff hitter by Willie Randolph, at the same time that he was keeping Wright in the bottom 1/2 of the order because he "was a young player and he wanted to bring him along slowly". Reason #349 that Willie is an idiot.

Elster88 Mar 22 2006 11:17 AM

Vic Sage wrote: Reyes was handed the everyday job as a leadoff hitter by Willie Randolph Art Howe. Not that Willie necessarily had to keep him there. I'd call it reason number #348 and 1/2.

Vic Sage Mar 22 2006 11:37 AM

i'll restate: "In 2005, Randolph allowed Reyes to retain the job of leadoff hitter after demonstrating in 2004 that he was not yet ready for that responsibility, and as he continued to demonstrate throughout the 2005 season by barely accumulating a .300 OB%" I still think his judgment on this issue (especially in the context of his decision-making about Wright) ranks as #349.

HahnSolo Mar 22 2006 01:32 PM

Francesa just said he spoke with Omar off the air, and Omar expects Hernandez to start the season at second base. Not an earth shattering news brief, I know. He also said Omar was willing to part with Matsui for Soriano. The Nats asked for Milledge. Gee both sides making an unreasonable demand, what a shock.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 22 2006 01:45 PM

Well, geez, of course he'd deal Matsui for Soriano even up. They're both poor fielding second basemen in their walk years, but Soriano's only getting $2 million more, and for that money you get a lot more offensive production. It's good to hear that Omar refrained from dealing Milledge for Soriano. I'm still not confident that Lastings will still be Mets property in 2007, but that tidbit of news is a good sign.

Elster88 Mar 22 2006 02:05 PM

Vic Sage wrote: i'll restate: "In 2005, Randolph allowed Reyes to retain the job of leadoff hitter after demonstrating in 2004 that he was not yet ready for that responsibility, and as he continued to demonstrate throughout the 2005 season by barely accumulating a .300 OB%" I still think his judgment on this issue (especially in the context of his decision-making about Wright) ranks as #349. Reyes retained the job at least partly by default. It's not like we had a better option. I'll stick with 348 and a 1/2 myself. Maybe 1/4.

Rockin' Doc Mar 22 2006 10:38 PM

I hope that the Mets want no part of Soriano and his prima donna attitude. Let Hernandez and Keppinger handle second base. If neither of them displays that they are ready to be starters by the time Matsui comes off the DL, then give him a shot at it. If Hernandez or Keppinger is doing well when Matsui is ready, then look to move Matsui. Just please, don't let Soriano anywhere near a Mets uniform.

Edgy DC Mar 24 2006 03:16 PM

Atlanta Journal-Constitution says... meet Jeff! Jeff Keppinger on... Published on: 03/03/06 THE MOMENTS • Highlight of high school career (Parkview): "We won the state championship my sophomore year against Walton. I was MVP all three years." • Highlight of college career (Georgia): "In the [2001] regional, we lost the opening game. In the second game on Saturday, I hit for the cycle. The next day in the final game, I went 5-for-5. I was 4-for-4, I'd already hit two home runs in the game, and they decided to pitch to me. We were losing by one, with two outs. I hit a two-run homer and we won 9-8 against Coastal Carolina." • Highlight of pro career (drafted by Pirates, traded to Mets): "The funniest thing is my first year [in the minors] I was in the home run derby [in the South Atlantic League]. All the people now who tell me I have no power, I tell them that. I think I hit one. They pick the home run derby the first month-and-a-half of the season. I had, like, seven. I had two games in one week when I hit two, so I had four in a week." • How about your real highlight? Was it your major league debut (Aug. 20, 2004)?: "Yeah, it was in San Francisco. We were in a playoff race. My dad and mom were there. My wife, who was then my girlfriend, flew in. Getting my first hit [the following night] and getting my first home run. I hit a home run to start off a game. I think we set a record [a team-record seven leadoff homers on the season]. To be a part of that, to know I had one of them." • Most embarrassing baseball moment: "I was 7 or 8. We beat the Red Devils like 25-0 every year. In Margate, Fla., we had the lead in the last inning. I was at shortstop, the bases were loaded with two outs. We're up by three. Guy hit a ground ball to me. The ball went right between my legs. ... We lost. I went home crying. My mom and my brother still [rib me] about that. All they have to say is 'Margate.' " PLAYING FAVORITES • Favorite TV show: "Judge Judy" • Favorite musician: Tom Petty (How about a BLC vote, Jeff?) • Favorite movie: "Wizard of Oz" • Favorite baseball player, growing up: Pete Rose • Favorite athlete now, in a sport other than baseball: Tiger Woods SHORT ANSWER • Loves about spring training: "I'm competing for a job this year, but I've never really looked at it that way. It's just a time to get ready, relax, get loose and get used to playing every day." • With whom/where you worked out in the offseason: He hit at Renz Baseball Academy in Duluth. "I did a lot of swimming at SwimAtlanta. Twice a week, I swam laps, freestyle and backstroke. It was good to keep weight off my leg." • Craziest, or most fun thing you did in offseason: "Got married." • Best thing about playing baseball in college: "It helped me mature and learn how to play the game." • Best advice you've ever gotten about baseball: "Play hard every day. Don't take the game for granted. From my grandfather, my mom and my dad." GWINNETT FLAVOR • Biggest influence growing up? "My brother Billy." • Last time you were at Parkview? "Last day of school my senior year." • Is your wife from Gwinnett, by chance? "Yeah, she went to Parkview. She's my best friend's little sister. Her name is Morgan [Jaillett] Keppinger." • You got some dirt on the other baseball guys from Gwinnett? "My brother-in-law grew up with [Jeff] Francoeur. He said when [Francoeur was little] he used to say, 'Hi, I'm Jeff-wee.' " FILL IN THE BLANK • Three people I'd like to play golf in a foursome with: "Tom Glavine. Maybe now he'll call me in the offseason. The president. Pete Rose." (Forget about Rose, Jeff. You'll lose your shirt, to start.) • Most famous person I've ever met is: Muhammad Ali. • If I weren't a baseball player I'd be a: "Probably a lawyer." • Last summer job was: "I've never had a job. Baseball." • The sport I played most recently, other than baseball was: Golf. • A sport I'm awful at is: "You've got me stumped." • Last thing I cooked was: "Pork tenderloin." • Secret talent : "Ping-Pong."

Yancy Street Gang Mar 24 2006 03:48 PM

His secret talent isn't a secret anymore. Didn't Willie Randolph say something about Ping Pong skills being the thing he looks for most in a secondbaseman?

Bret Sabermetric Mar 24 2006 03:56 PM

Rose retired when Keppinger was, like, 5. Did you have a favorite ballplayer when you were 5? I was blithely unaware that Ebbets Field got torn down when I was five, and my dad was a big Dodgers fan.

Rotblatt Mar 24 2006 05:34 PM

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=AuU4c7zoAAUiv6gLOU8qB50RvLYF?gid=260324124]Recap from today's game.[/url] ]Chase Lambin hit a two-run, pinch-hit homer off a TV truck well beyond the right-field wall for the Mets. Including today's 2 at bats, Chase Lambin has an OPS of .969 . . . . . . in 9 at bats, which makes it close to meaningless, but that begs the question, why isn't he playing more? Hernandez is swinging a limp noodle and doesn't get on base. Keppinger, meanwhile, IS getting playing time and is making the most of it (.846 OPS in 37 AB), but he's being ignored anyway. Between Matsui being out and Reyes being at the WBC, why couldn't they have gotten Lambin some more playing time? And why are we completely disfunctional when it comes to managing our second basemen? And relief pitchers? And catchers/first basemen? But mostly second basemen.

Yancy Street Gang Mar 24 2006 05:37 PM

If Keppinger's getting playing time, maybe he isn't really being ignored.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 24 2006 06:38 PM

Rotblatt wrote: And why are we completely disfunctional when it comes to managing our second basemen? And relief pitchers? And catchers/first basemen? But mostly second basemen. Don't forget managing young starters--the best way to get shitcanned last year into middle relief or AAA was to pitch a few good games.

abogdan Mar 26 2006 08:20 AM

Tony Graffanino likely to be [url=http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=132235&format=text]released by Wednesday[/url]: ]Tony Graffanino’s days with the Red Sox may be about to come to an end. The veteran second baseman is currently on waivers, according to sources, and will likely be traded or released by Wednesday. With interest in Graffanino believed to be tepid, the Sox may opt to release him by March 29, which is the deadline for teams to get rid of players with non-guaranteed contracts and be only responsible for one-quarter of the salary. In Graffanino’s case, that would be $512,500 of a $2.05 million deal. The Sox undoubtedly are making one final effort to trade the 33-year-old, who was acquired from the Kansas City Royals last July 19. The current waivers, which are revocable, would allow the Sox to pull him back if another team puts in a claim in order to try to work out a deal. Graffanino, who lost his starting job when Mark Loretta was acquired from the San Diego Padres, is batting .182 with two doubles and two RBI in 12 games. The Sox have played him at third in several games to showcase his versatility.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 26 2006 08:27 AM

Quick--let's rent a bulldozer to dump money on Graffinino before March 29th so the Mets don't have to open the season with some miminum wage rookie manning 2b. If we wait until the 30th, he may sign with another team. Maybe the Mets can get him for just a few good prospects--what do you say?

Nymr83 Mar 26 2006 12:22 PM

if he becomes a free agent and doesnt mind some time at Norfolk i'd be in favor of signing him. I don't think anything should be traded to get him though.

DocTee Mar 26 2006 08:05 PM

From nymets.com: Second base second fiddle: Two days after Matsui injured his knee and removed himself from second base competition, the Mets played two split-squad games. Anderson Hernandez played second base in the home game, and Jeff Keppinger played second in a game against the Nationals in Viera, far from the eyes of Randolph and most of the staff. The Mets have played five games since then, and Hernandez has started each at second base. Keppinger has played third in some, replaced Hernandez in others and not played in one. Enough said? It should be. Hernandez will be the Mets' second baseman until Matsui's return and, in the minds of some, after Matsui is ready to play again, probably 10 days to two weeks into the season. If Hernandez wasn't the choice, he wouldn't have spent so much time on the left flank of Jose Reyes. Teammates consider Hernandez the best defensive player of the three, Matsui and Keppinger superior to Hernandez as offensive players, and Keppinger the best mix of offense and defense. And some wonder why Keppinger hasn't been give more of chance to win the job.

Frayed Knot Mar 26 2006 10:50 PM

"Between Matsui being out and Reyes being at the WBC, why couldn't they have gotten Lambin some more playing time? And why are we completely disfunctional when it comes to managing our second basemen? " I admit to knowing next to nothing about Chase Lambin but it doesn't seem to be only club mgmt; few others seem to think much of him either. A quick check of a few ratings of the Met system shows that BA doesn't rank him even among the top 10 Met prospects and John Sickels keeps him out of the top 20. And this is out of what now is a near bottom-of-the-barrel farm system. Maybe it's because he'll turn 27 in mid-summer and players fall off everyone's prospect-o-meter by that age. BP had better things to say based mostly on last year's sudden power spike (slugging jumped from ~.400 to ~.600 from '04 to '05). Maybe folks want to see him do it again before they take things seriously. Looks like the 2nd base situation is going to do some shaking out this season. Who knows where it'll wind up?

heep Mar 27 2006 12:18 AM

I feel for Keppinger. Interesting how Noble reported players on the team were wondering why he did not get more of a look and he is the best combo of offense and defense. I understand the preference for Hernandez, but if he doen not come on against major leaugue pitching, the cream will rise to the top.

Edgy DC Mar 27 2006 12:32 AM

]Interesting how Noble reported players on the team were wondering why he did not get more of a look... He's gotten only two fewer plate appearances than Anderson (51-49), no matter what the other players think. ]...and he is the best combo of offense and defense. Who is saying that? ]I understand the preference for Hernandez, but if he doen not come on against major leaugue pitching, the cream will rise to the top. Hopefully, if they indeed have some cream.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 27 2006 06:26 AM

Edgy DC wrote: ]...and he is the best combo of offense and defense. Who is saying that? . Are you blind? DocTee above quotes nymets.com as saying that "teammates" make that claim. Or are you complaining that "teammates" could be anyone or no one, and we don't know that the quote isn't being manufactured by the evil Keppinger Advocacy Group. Is this yet another attack on the integrity of journalists in general, conveniently made whenever something appears that doesn't support your own agenda, but conveniently forgotten whenever you wish to cite some report in the papers? if Nymets.com can't find a Met willing to attach his name to a quote about his teammates' relative abilities, then it's as if the quote doesn't exist? Or are you just blind?

Rotblatt Mar 27 2006 08:04 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: I admit to knowing next to nothing about Chase Lambin but it doesn't seem to be only club mgmt; few others seem to think much of him either. A quick check of a few ratings of the Met system shows that BA doesn't rank him even among the top 10 Met prospects and John Sickels keeps him out of the top 20. And this is out of what now is a near bottom-of-the-barrel farm system. Maybe it's because he'll turn 27 in mid-summer and players fall off everyone's prospect-o-meter by that age. BP had better things to say based mostly on last year's sudden power spike (slugging jumped from ~.400 to ~.600 from '04 to '05). Maybe folks want to see him do it again before they take things seriously. Thanks for the research, Frayed! At the risk of being (more) pedantic, I STILL don't get the lack of love (apparently anywhere) for Lambin. He was at the University of Lousiana-Lafayette at 23, so he got a late start. He then advanced from Brooklyn to AA over the next 2 years, posting OPS's of .763 (179 AB @ As), .770 (401 AB @ A+) & .721 (410 @ AA). So not only has he done pretty well in our farm system, he hasn't actually been there for long. I mean, he hasn't been spinning his wheels in one spot at all. Anyway, he repeated AA at the start of last year, posting a 1.053 OPS in 181 AB, then getting promoted to AAA, where he split time at second, posting a .876 OPS in 211 AB. I'm sorry, but that's flat-out impressive to do that well in your first stint at AAA. His numbers at each stop are comparable to Keppinger's but he displays a lot more power, and he's only 9 months older. So, again, why no love? Are scouts just not aware of him? Does he look THAT bad fielding second? No one seems to know . . . PECOTA forecasts: Lambin, .251 AVG/.319 OBP/.432 SLG/.751 OPS, -3 FRAA Keppinger, .290 AVG/.338 OBP/.392 SLG/.730 OPS, 2 FRAA Hernandez, .266 AVG/.313 OBP/.372 SLG/.685 OPS, 1 FRAA (SS)

Nymr83 Mar 27 2006 10:30 AM

]we don't know that the quote isn't being manufactured by the evil Keppinger Advocacy Group Where do I join KAG?

Vic Sage Mar 27 2006 02:46 PM

]Are scouts just not aware of him? Does he look THAT bad fielding second? No one seems to know . . maybe he pisses in the clubhouse shower?

Rotblatt Mar 27 2006 03:36 PM

Vic Sage wrote: maybe he pisses in the clubhouse shower? Even there, Lambin has the edge--according advanced forecasting by PECOTA, he's on pace to dribble 4% less than Hernandez. Keppinger isn't expected to piss in the shower at all this season, which would seem to give him the edge, but he's ALSO predicted to make roughly 116 "don't drop the soap" jokes to Lambin's 12, putting Lambin back in the lead. I just don't get it . . .

Yancy Street Gang Mar 27 2006 03:38 PM

I remember years ago Madonna telling David Letterman that peeing in the shower was a good way to cure athlete's foot.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 28 2006 06:22 AM

Rotblatt wrote: Does he look THAT bad fielding second? No one seems to know . . . This bothers me. Assuming the guy looks bad at 2B, why not turn him into a utility infielder, and have him back up at the major league level, PH, etc. We have a place like that for Julio Franco and Jose Valentin (and before that for Matt Franco and John Valentin) so if this guy can hit, and is cheap, and is home grown, and has some growth potential, why not see if he can hit at the MLB level, and save a little money that you can then spend on the FAs that (you claim) would bust your budget? You'd have to think a guy with Lambin's record would hit about as well as Julio or Jose, and has some potential to improve, which they plainly do not have. If he's a bust, are guys like Franco and Valentin so hard to pick up in mid-season?

Rotblatt Mar 28 2006 07:42 AM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: This bothers me. Assuming the guy looks bad at 2B, why not turn him into a utility infielder, and have him back up at the major league level, PH, etc. We have a place like that for Julio Franco and Jose Valentin (and before that for Matt Franco and John Valentin) so if this guy can hit, and is cheap, and is home grown, and has some growth potential, why not see if he can hit at the MLB level, and save a little money that you can then spend on the FAs that (you claim) would bust your budget? You'd have to think a guy with Lambin's record would hit about as well as Julio or Jose, and has some potential to improve, which they plainly do not have. If he's a bust, are guys like Franco and Valentin so hard to pick up in mid-season? See, that's exactly it--he looks like he might be able to put up comparable numbers to past-his-prime Valentin. Of course, I don't KNOW because I've only seen about 2 at bats from him and I haven't seen him field at all yet. But wouldn't it be nice to test him out? It's too late for him to make an impression now because we wanted to give Self, which means I guess Chase will battle with Keppinger & Basak for playing time at Norfolk.

MFS62 Mar 28 2006 01:24 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I remember years ago Madonna telling David Letterman that peeing in the shower was a good way to cure athlete's foot. Well, I guess if you're not going to use that urine to toughen up your hands (a la Alou) then you might as well put it to other good uses. Back to Keppinger. A while ago, Edgy mentioned a player who's situation I liken to Keppinger's, in terms of being a second baseman who had good minor league numbers but never seemed to get a real chance in the bigs - Jason Hardtke. Neither was considered to be a great fielder. Jason hit for more power, but Jeff has hit for higher averages. LA had a guy like that in Adam Riggs a few years ago. He never seemed to get a chance, either, despite some impressive minor league numbers. You wonder how guys get labelled (such as a AAAA player) and how tough it is to get rid of that label. I'm not saying Jeff has that tag yet, but it sure looks like he could get it soon. Later

sharpie Mar 28 2006 03:37 PM

And Tony Graffanino just signed with his old team, those Kansas City Royals.

Edgy DC May 01 2006 12:27 PM

The Newark Star Ledger wrote: Before the game, Randolph said that, as long as the team is playing well, the second-base job belongs to Kaz Matsui even when Anderson Hernandez (bulging disk) returns from the disabled list. Hernandez started the season as the Mets second baseman when Matsui was on the DL. Matsui, who had hit in eight straight games, promptly went 0-for-5. As much as I think Matsui is the better choice, it seems Randolph is going with the old saw of "Don't tinker with a winning lineup," I don't think much of that. It was the same logic that kept Anderson Hernandez in the lineup, before his injury, and now it's to keep him out?

Centerfield May 01 2006 12:30 PM

I think he uses the line in order to seem consistent. Team was winning with Hernandez, hence no Matsui. Team winning with Matsui, hence no Hernandez. It is probably easier than admitting "I was wrong, Matsui is better."

Nymr83 May 01 2006 01:33 PM

A better statement for Willie to make would have been "the job is Matsui'd as long as he is playing well." The team's record shouldn't matter. Play well, play more, its that simple.

Centerfield May 01 2006 02:19 PM

Yeah, that probably would have made more sense.

smg58 Jun 01 2006 08:44 AM

So is Valentin the guy at second base right now, or are they platooning him with Woodward? And do they keep Kaz around, or is it only a matter of time before he gets DFA'd?

Johnny Dickshot Jun 01 2006 08:53 AM

I don;t mind Kazoo as a bench player: He can pinch-run, bunt if needed, switch-hit, fill in defenssively at 2nd (or SS, in an emergency). Once in a while, he can drive one to the gap for xtra bases. Don't see a great need for him in that capacity but while Valentin is an everydayer, you're gonna need a LH bat on the bench. It's Kaz for now.

Edgy DC Jun 01 2006 10:15 AM

I don't think they'd ever look to him as a defensive replacement, though they would with Hernandez if he were around. Valentin thus far seems like the veteran he is --- sure-handed but not rangey. He make a fine diving stop to his right last night, though he got a nice long clean hop. An inning or two later, he waved at a hard hit but catchable ball to his left. This could remain interesting. I don't think Kaz is going to get buried. He'll probably eventually hit his way into more playing time, as Valentin did. I strongly doubt he'll see full-time status again on this side of the Pacific, but the Mets may need something more from him before the year is over.

Edgy DC Jun 05 2006 12:26 PM

It's official. Willie has named Valentin his secondbaseman "unitl further notice."

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 12:30 PM

Deserved.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 12:30 PM

Kaz, good luck in Japan next year. He'll probably hit .350.

sharpie Jun 05 2006 12:33 PM

Not sure if Kaz will make it through the year with the Mets. I'd rather go out and find a lefty slugger. Valentin has become mrs. sharpie's favorite Met. It's that Latin American dictator look.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 12:37 PM

I can't imagine why another team would take him. We'd probably have to cut him.

MFS62 Jun 05 2006 12:43 PM

Elster88 wrote: I can't imagine why another team would take him. We'd probably have to cut him. The only team I can think of that might take him is Seattle. They are currently playing kids in the middle infield, they are owned by a Japanese Conglomerate, and have a Japanese President. And their city has a relatively large Japanese-American population. They not only have a Japanese superstar (Ichiro) but a Japanese catcher, too. I have no idea who the Mariners have who the Mets might want. Later

Vic Sage Jun 05 2006 12:45 PM

the kids seattle has in its middle infield have been terrific. I see no reason why they'd take on Kaz' salary, merely to back them up, regardless of his race.

Frayed Knot Jun 05 2006 01:12 PM

At this point, trading Kaz and simply cutting him is virtually the same thing. A trade get you almost nothing in return and will still cost you most of the remaining money (~ $5mil). Throw in the fact that Kaz has almost complete veto power over a deal and (guessing here) will likely return to Japan for next year anyway, thrying to strike a deal that satisfies all the right condition might just be more of a headache than it's worth.

metirish Jun 05 2006 01:24 PM

Jon Heyamn today says the Mets are talking to the Nats about Vidro and the D-Rays about Lugo, even though he's a SS he'd fit at 2nd.

Nymr83 Jun 05 2006 04:19 PM

me gusta Jose Vidro, hopefully Minaya does too. i'm lukewarm on Lugo but its hard to doubt that he's an improvement over our internal options.

seawolf17 Jun 05 2006 04:24 PM

I don't know that Lugo gives us anything we don't already have; I see no point in trading anything for him. Vidro... if he can stay on the field, he's a nice fit.

Zvon Jun 05 2006 04:27 PM

Getting Vidro would be phenominal.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 04:33 PM

I'm waiting for Valentin to fall off the cliff. If we can find someone elsewhere without giving up to much, I'd be for it.

sharpie Jun 05 2006 04:47 PM

He's hit 25-30 homers every season when healthy. If he can do that and hit .240-.250 and play good defense out of the number 8 hole then I'm happy.

Elster88 Jun 05 2006 04:55 PM

I don't think he can. And his defense is poor.

Nymr83 Jun 05 2006 04:56 PM

I'm not about to turn into a Valentin-defender, but I think with no viable everyday 2Bman you play the hot hand, and thats him atm.

sharpie Jun 05 2006 05:06 PM

Yeah, I know, his reputation is as a poor-fielding shortstop. I have to say, however, that he's looked pretty good at second base.

DocTee Jun 05 2006 05:11 PM

With Mark Ellis out until the All Star Break, Oakland may be in the market. While they surely don't want Kaz, they may drive up the asking price for other available 2B-men.

smg58 Jun 06 2006 12:37 AM

Maybe the Pirates would deal Castillo or Freddy Sanchez. They're stupid, and I see no problem trying to exploit that fact. Speaking of stupid teams, I could see the Royals parting with Grudzalainek at some point, as he's not helping them much. Adam Kennedy's been in a lot of rumors, but surprisingly none here that I'm aware of. The Reds always seem to have too many second basemen, so it couldn't hurt to ask about Freel or Rich Aurillia. All that being said, I'm not in any hurry to pull the trigger on anything as long as Valentin is doing well, but there's no reason not to work the phones.

Elster88 Jun 06 2006 09:00 AM

I don't think that the Royals and Pirates are necessarily stupid....just poor.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2006 09:09 AM

A newspaper report out of Texas has the stRangers about to DFA D'Angelo Jiminez (they just traded for Jerry Hairston Jr.). He's not hitting now but has had decent OBAs in the past. He's also reportedly a PiTA who isn't always given to working all that hard. He's not someone I'd simply hand the 2nd base job over to but it's possible they'd see him as a platoon - or maybe just as a better bench player than Kazoo.

Elster88 Jun 11 2006 09:05 PM

]But Randolph is fine with the situation and wants to let it play out after the trade of Kaz Matsui to Colorado as Jose Valentin and Chris Woodward take over second base. "We don't have a so-called everyday second baseman," Randolph said before Sunday's game against the Diamondbacks. "The guys we have out there, they put their heads together and get the job done just fine." Woodward started Sunday, but Valentin will get the majority of the playing team because the veteran has a more lethal bat and has been an everyday player most of his career. Randolph is willing to let it play itself out for now. "You don't have to anoint guys and this and that," he said. "There is no reason to do that. We can let Jose play, Chris play. I've been on many teams where it was a platoon situation or someone steps up. That's fine, as long as they get the job done." I'm not a fan of the platoon.

Rockin' Doc Jun 11 2006 09:39 PM

I thought Platoon was pretty good.

*62 Jun 11 2006 10:46 PM

sharpie wrote: Yeah, I know, his reputation is as a poor-fielding shortstop. I have to say, however, that he's looked pretty good at second base. we haven't exactly been throwing Bill Mazeroski out there these past few seasons ......... he's adequate

Nymr83 Jun 11 2006 10:54 PM

]I'm not a fan of the platoon. why not and what is your solution? i think the platoon, provided that whoever is "hot" gets most of the time, is a good way to fill the position while also keeping a needed bwench player fresh.

Elster88 Jun 11 2006 11:33 PM

Nymr83 wrote: ]I'm not a fan of the platoon. i think the platoon, provided that whoever is "hot" gets most of the time, is a good way to fill the position while also keeping a needed bwench player fresh. What you describe is not a platoon.

Nymr83 Jun 11 2006 11:52 PM

what i'm describing is what willie seems to be doing, he can call it whatever he wants as long as he keeps doing it

Elster88 Jun 12 2006 08:55 AM

That's nice. ______________________ But back to what I was saying, I am not a fan of the platoon.

Yancy Street Gang Jun 12 2006 09:28 AM

I have no objection to platoons. (They're rarely seen anymore. When was the last real Mets platoon?) Anyway, Wally Backman was pretty pathetic against left-handed pitchers. It was good to have a Tim Teufel to step in for him.

Elster88 Jun 12 2006 09:30 AM

In a situation like that I have less of a problem with it. But the standard righty/lefty platoon, just because neither player is really good and because everybody "just knows" that you hit better when the ball breaks into you...that has never worked for me. Off the top of my head the only one that I can think of is Spencer/Garcia.