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World Baseball Classic Thread

Edgy DC Nov 08 2005 11:12 AM

"WBC" just means corrupt boxing to me. (Actually, "boxing" means corrupt boxing to me, but that's another issue.) Anyhow, they [url=http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051107&content_id=1265785&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb]announced[/url] games to be hosted by Los Angeles of Anahei, where "fans are some of the most enthusiastic in all of baseball," according to Bud Selig. The BOB is hosting first round games, and Davey Johnson is looking good to manage the team, depending on how he does with Lastings Milledge and the Olympic qualifying team.

Willets Point Nov 08 2005 11:19 AM

I hope this works out. International baseball competition could be a lot of fun.

Edgy DC Nov 08 2005 11:23 AM

I'd like to see a non-MLB governing body.

Frayed Knot Nov 08 2005 11:36 AM

I'd fear the alternatives.

Edgy DC Nov 08 2005 11:47 AM

Yes, but at least you'd get multiple interests competing against each other. It'dlikely take a generattion or two before a world body became institutionalized enough to develp its own interests as an institution, apart from those of the members nations and thier leagues and players.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 08 2005 11:52 AM

I can't imagine MLB allowing any participation in an entity that didn;t ultimately promote itself. As far as Selig is concerned, MLB is baseball, the only governing body that actually matters..

MFS62 Nov 08 2005 11:57 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I'd like to see a non-MLB governing body. An International body? Wouldn't that be like Sweden (pointing to ABBA and) wanting to control the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? B'sides, I'm not sure the MLBPA would be too thrilled about it, considering the way those international sports governing bodies impose tough testing and penalties for substance abuse. Later

Johnny Dickshot Nov 08 2005 11:59 AM

The analogy would be Sony Music controlling the RnR Hall of Fame.

Edgy DC Nov 08 2005 12:00 PM

Agreed. But the way the other countries could show they have as much juice as MLB would be for them to threaten to hold an international tournament without the US participation --- decaring the winner "World Champion" if MlB doesn't allwo some adequalte power sharing in WBC.

Edgy DC Nov 08 2005 12:04 PM

I don't think that Japan --- with over 100 years of baseball --- is analogous to Sweden. And this wouldn't be ceding to a single nation, but an organization which includes delegates from all baseball-playing nations. Works in soccer. FIFA has it's corruptions, but they put on a hell of a difficult show every four years. It's more or less fair, every nation on earth has a crack at qualifying, and no league begrudges its players their participation.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 08 2005 12:20 PM

But then we're back to MLB's wish not to trump their own product with shorter, less lucrative one that doesn't necessarily serve to promote it. Baseball's FIFA is the IBAF, which is sanctioning the WBC, so maybe we're arguing over nothing: [url]http://www.baseball.ch/[/url]

Edgy DC Nov 08 2005 12:34 PM

I'd hope that the rest of the baseball world competing or threatening to compete without the US would create an interest for MLB. I don't see anyting about the WBC appearing at the IBF page. The competittions it shows include: The Baseball World Cup The Women's Baseball World Cup The International Cup The Olympics The Junior World Championship (called"AAA") The Yourth World Champeioship (called "AA") The World University Baseball Championship

Johnny Dickshot Nov 08 2005 12:45 PM

Q: Which leagues and/or organizations have been involved with establishing the World Baseball Classic? A: Major League Baseball (MLB) and the Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA) have joined together to establish the World Baseball Classic. The tournament, sanctioned by the International Baseball Federation (IBAF), will be conducted jointly by MLB and the MLBPA in cooperation with Nippon Professional Baseball (NPB), the Korea Baseball Organization (KBO), their respective players associations and other professional leagues from around the world.

Edgy DC Nov 08 2005 12:59 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 08 2005 01:02 PM

Missed that. Where's it from? Ah, MLB's WBC page.

Johnny Dickshot Nov 08 2005 01:01 PM

mlb.com

Edgy DC Nov 08 2005 01:03 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Nov 08 2005 02:14 PM

It says something of the International Baseball Federation's actual role in this, though, that their site says nothing at all about it.

Valadius Nov 08 2005 01:40 PM

They changed the name of the BOB! It is now called Chase Field.

OlerudOwned Nov 20 2005 04:19 PM

]Six managers named for WBC By Barry M. Bloom MILWAUKEE -- Major League Baseball said on Tuesday that six managers already have been selected to head some of the 16 teams that are participating in next year's inaugural World Baseball Classic, the first international hardball tournament ever to include Major League players. The games are scheduled to be played from March 3-20 in Japan, the United States and Puerto Rico. The list is headed by legendary home run hitter Sadaharu Oh, who will manage the Japanese squad. Former Major Leaguer Jim Lefebvre leads the budding Chinese national team and has done so since it was formulated two years ago with an eye toward the 2008 Bejing Summer Olympics. Former Yankees coach and player Luis Sojo will guide the Venezuelan team. Former Major Leaguer Roberto Kelly will head his native Panama. Francisco Estrada is Mexico's manager. And Manny Acta, the Mets third base coach, was announced on Monday to lead the Dominican Republic, replacing Tony Pena, who recently signed a contract with the Yankees to be their first base coach next season. "I feel grateful and happy that the Mets ... are giving me the opportunity to manage for my country," Acta told The Associated Press during a telephone interview from his home in Kissimmee, Fla. So our 3rd base coach will get a chance to manage the potential Dominican Powerhouse. Good luck to him. (Though he may not need it if he has Pujols, Vlad, Tejada, Papi, Pedro, and Colon.)

Spacemans Bong Nov 20 2005 09:36 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I'd hope that the rest of the baseball world competing or threatening to compete without the US would create an interest for MLB. I don't see anyting about the WBC appearing at the IBF page. The competittions it shows include: The Baseball World Cup The Women's Baseball World Cup The International Cup The Olympics The Junior World Championship (called"AAA") The Yourth World Champeioship (called "AA") The World University Baseball Championship That may tell you something about how crap the IBF is if their website has no mention of the WBC or MLB.

Valadius Nov 20 2005 09:41 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! The WBC. The IBF. Do the corrupt boxing federations need to be perpetuated throughout other sports? Honestly. This is too much.

Edgy DC Nov 20 2005 09:54 PM

I still don't like MLB running this party. MLB announces the team managers?

Valadius Nov 20 2005 09:57 PM

It's just more pennies for Bud Selig's piggy bank.

metirish Nov 30 2005 11:02 AM

[url=http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_3264291]Bonds to play for Team USA[/URL] Bobby Bo involved, I hadn't known that.

Edgy DC Dec 01 2005 09:40 AM

Our new firstbaseman, by the way, has already made a commitment to compete for Puerto Rico in the WBC. I'm not keen on Puerto Rico competing as if they were a seperate nation. Even with all the precedent of them standing alone on the international stage, it still sends a mixed message. Instead they should be kicking ass as a state in my invitational US Baseball Classic tournament, featuring a field of 64 teams, representing each of the 50 United States, rounded out with teams from, let's see, American Samoa, the District of Columbia, Guam, the Mariana Islands, Native America, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands. Need seven more: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Merchant Marines, and, uh, the Peace Corps. It'd rock and it's long overdue --- seeing Sergeant Shriver pitching to Delgado.

MFS62 Dec 01 2005 09:46 AM

Related to the Bonds story: In an interview with Keith Olberman, he said that he was "losing 40 pounds because it will put less stress on his knees." The cynics among us will say his new svelte look will be because he's off the 'riods. In any event, if he participates in the games, all players will be subject to the comprehensive Olympic drug testing program. Stay tuned for the next exciting chapter. Later

Willets Point Dec 01 2005 09:51 AM

]Need seven more Easy. The seven largest metropolitain areas in the US compete seperately from the rest of their states. The biggest cities are bigger than the smallest states and you got to imagine that upstate New Yorkers would love it if their team knocked-out the New York City team.

Edgy DC Dec 01 2005 09:57 AM

Nah, I'm sticking with my service teams playing the role of noble patsies. The David-and-Goliath angle will be all over California-Montana matchups, and that'd be no fun if Montana were to win and Cali cried that their player pool was watered down by all their best players playing on the LA, SF, and Long Beach squads. I'm sending out the invites this afternoon. Finals in Van Cortland Park.

MFS62 Dec 01 2005 09:59 AM

Sounds like the Little League World Series playoffs. Later

Willets Point Dec 01 2005 10:30 AM

The seven largest metro areas are New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, Miami & Washington (although then Washington, DC would have two teams so we'll give a team to metro area #8 - Houston).

Edgy DC Dec 01 2005 10:36 AM

The integrity of the staes must hold.

Edgy DC Dec 02 2005 09:54 AM

So, Livan Hernandez may compete with Puerto Rico, the sort of sticking point that has made Cuba's participation still up in the air. And MLB's dominance of the oversight for this event has got to be an impedeiment to Cuba. It would be somthing to field a team of Cuban nationals and Cuban defectors playing together.

sharpie Dec 02 2005 09:57 AM

Delaware's team prolly won't go far.

seawolf17 Dec 02 2005 10:27 AM

All-Delaware Team: C Chris Widger 1B John Mabry 2B Delino DeShields 3B Hans Lobert (1903-1917) SS Ken Szotkiewicz (1970) OF Randy Bush (1982-1993) OF Dave May (1967-1978) OF Kevin Mench SP Sadie McManhon (1889-1897) SP Ian Snell SP Chris Welsh (1981-1986) SP Bert Cunningham (1887-1901) RP Chris Short (1959-1973) RP Wayne Franklin RP Renie Martin (1979-1984) MGR/RP Dallas Green

sharpie Dec 02 2005 10:41 AM

Hans Lobert probably doesn't hit for average anymore.

MFS62 Dec 02 2005 11:50 AM

I never would have even thought about rooting against a team from delaware until I noticed the name of the manager. I wonder if Harmon Killebrew still would be able to DH for the Idaho team? Later

MFS62 Dec 05 2005 02:36 PM

Back to the real tourney http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/wbc/rosters.jsp?content=country In case you're interested. Later

seawolf17 Dec 05 2005 02:42 PM

I know Andruw Jones covers a lot of ground, but I think the Netherlands are going to be a bit overmatched.

sharpie Dec 05 2005 02:49 PM

A-Rod and Marco Scutaro get to be in their own little country.

MFS62 Dec 05 2005 02:54 PM

Back to the real tourney http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/wbc/rosters.jsp?content=country In case you're interested. Later

seawolf17 Dec 05 2005 02:55 PM

I know Andruw Jones covers a lot of ground, but I think the Netherlands are going to be a bit overmatched.

Valadius Dec 05 2005 03:06 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 05 2005 05:36 PM

Gah! Two double-posts! Scutaro's got an interesting situation. He could choose to play for either Italy or Venezuela. On edit: Venezuela, not Puerto Rico.

Valadius Dec 05 2005 03:13 PM

Also - Jose Oquendo, Manager of Puerto Rico.

MFS62 Dec 05 2005 05:09 PM

Valadius wrote: Gah! Two double-posts! Chalk it up to a system problem. Its too coincidental that both happened so close together. Later

seawolf17 Dec 05 2005 05:24 PM

Oh. I just thought you were losing it, 62; I figured I'd just give everyone deja vu. Sharpie didn't hold up his end.

metirish Dec 06 2005 07:19 AM

Coould it be really possible that Rodriguez thought he could play for both countries? ] It's time for A-Rod to get off the fence Tuesday, December 6, 2005 By BOB KLAPISCH SPORTS COLUMNIST DALLAS - While the baseball community is busy digesting the meaning of the World Baseball Classic - is it really a rule-the-globe tournament, or just a series of glorified spring training games? - the issue cuts far deeper for Alex Rodriguez, who can't decide if he'll play for the U.S. or the Dominican Republic. At first glance, it should be an easy choice: A-Rod was born in New York City, and as a full-fledged American citizen should be the starting third baseman on the U.S. squad, right next to Derek Jeter (who decided Sunday that he's playing). But the quirky WBC isn't quite the Olympics, and the eligibility rules are lax enough to allow Manny Ramirez, who became a U.S. citizen two years ago, to still represent the Dominican Republic. And that's why Andruw Jones, who was born in Curacao in the Netherlands Antilles, is playing for the Netherlands. Obviously, this tournament's legitimacy is diluted by its gerrymandered rosters, which has Mike Piazza playing for Italy. The Italian contingent, in fact, is more like the Italian-American squad, which is why there's been no hurricane of nationalist fervor whipping through this country. Not even FOX, baseball's primary vehicle to the masses, is interested in broadcasting the Classic. Still, there promises to be some entertaining moments, if the tournament boils down to a one-game, winner-take-all championship between the U.S. and the Dominicans. Who wouldn't want to see Barry Bonds facing Pedro Martinez, or Roger Clemens going one-on-one with Ramirez (especially with the residue of ill will between the two?) Put it this way: It'll be far better theater than your average spring training game, and by all accounts, the Latin squads (the Dominicans, Cubans and Puerto Ricans) will treat the games as if a world title were really at stake. Maybe that's why A-Rod still can't make up his mind. His parents were born in the Dominican Republic, which means he has every right (at least by tournament rules) to consider himself a teammate of Pedro and Manny and David Ortiz. Maybe he's worried about offending the game's top Latino players, although most American players have long since considered A-Rod one of their own. That's certainly true in the Yankee clubhouse, where Rodriguez mingled not with Mariano Rivera and Bernie Williams, but with Jeter, Jason Giambi and Tino Martinez (who despite his Spanish surname, is about as all-American as they come). Rodriguez does speak Spanish, but it's not the street dialect that many pro athletes speak. Instead, it's polished, schooled, perfectly enunciated - something out of a Berlitz tape. Rivera loves to tease A-Rod that whatever he's speaking, it's not real Spanish. Rodriguez would just smile and nod in agreement. Our advice is that A-Rod shouldn't spend too much energy soul-searching. The tournament wasn't designed for players to find their roots - it's just another gimmick to grow the game (and its revenues) around the world. Granted, it's a nice idea, but nothing worth questioning one's identity over. No Dominican player will consider A-Rod a traitor if he joins Jeter on the left side of the U.S. infield. And, conversely, no one in this country will hold it against Rodriguez if he honors his parents by joining the Dominican squad, the same way Piazza is getting a pass on playing for the Italian team. Yankee fans? They couldn't care less. In fact, they're more interested in seeing A-Rod take the Bombers to the World Series, or at least making up for the 0-for-11, no-RBI blemish attached to last year's AL Division Series. But the longer Rodriguez goes without making up his mind, the more of an issue this becomes. Ironically, the man who tries so hard to blend in is now standing out; of the 177 major-leaguers who have agreed to participate, only Rodriguez and Marco Scutaro have yet to pick a squad (and no one's waiting breathlessly on Scutaro's decision). The problem, of course, is that Rodriguez is still fighting his deepest demon, the one that craves universal approval. He went as far as to ask the players' union if he could somehow play for both teams - starting with one, and then switching uniforms if his first squad was eliminated early in the tournament. Cup officials told Rodriguez it doesn't work that way - not even for a tournament as loosely run as this one. Sooner or later, Rodriguez will have to cast his ballot, and we're betting he sides with Jeter and Clemens and Barry Bonds. Once Rodriguez joins, the Americans' roster will be the deepest, if not the most talented, in the tournament. The U.S. should prevail, although there's no way to measure how much national pride will factor into the outcome. After all, Fidel Castro is practically staking his political future on the performance of his Cuban players. The Dominicans consider themselves the game's finest talent breeders, and the Japanese take pride in their discipline and fundamentals. That's what the Americans will be up against. No wonder the U.S. contingent is already leaning on A-Rod to stop waffling. "We'd very much like A-Rod to be our third baseman," is what U.S. manager Buck Martinez said Monday. He was smiling but definitely not kidding. E-mail: klapisch@northjersey.com

Benjamin Grimm Dec 06 2005 07:24 AM

Am I the only one who doesn't care at all about the World Baseball Classic? I might watch an inning or two because any baseball in March is worth looking at, but I won't be rooting for the country I was born in, or for the country where my great-grandparents were born. I really don't care who wins. I just don't want any Mets players getting hurt. That's my rooting interest.

metirish Dec 06 2005 07:31 AM

Yeah I'm the same way,I just hope no Mets player will get injured,I'll be shouting for the US though, US V Cuba or the Dominican in a title game would have some juice I would think.

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2005 07:52 AM

I'm certainly not going to get all hyped up over it and I suspect few are. On the whole this is going to be a much bigger deal for the smaller countries involved. If China, Austrailia or Venezuela can win a game or 2 against their deeper regional competition it'll be a shot in the arm for them. But I also think some are going a bit overboard in denouncing this. It's designed to promote the game and will be something that'll spice up the monotony of spring training once every couple of years. The rosters should be big enough, the precautions thought out enough, and the whole tourney short enough (I think the teams going to the final will play no more than 6-8 games) so that the it shouldn't be the major disruption that many are predicting. Various talkies are already laying the groundwork to blame every potential injury (during ST & the reg season too) on the tourney itself as if these players would be sunning themselves on the beach if not for this "travesty". Look, players get hurt during ST all the time (Benson last year, Chipper missed what would have been his rookie year on the last day of ST) so it's not like this year should be any different, tourney or no. I've even heard about how this season will feature reduced fundamentals due to missed practice drills. Yeah, right!

Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 07:56 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 06 2005 08:26 AM

Steve Trachsel wouldn't have hurt his back last year if he had been playing tournament ball like he should've been. His back stays intact, we''re a playoff team.

Elster88 Dec 06 2005 07:58 AM

Edgy DC wrote: His back stays intact, we''re a playoff team. Nah.

metirish Dec 06 2005 08:01 AM

From the article.... ]After all, Fidel Castro is practically staking his political future on the performance of his Cuban players So does that mean he'll quit or something if Cuba falis to impress?

Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 08:10 AM

]Nah. Assuming unknowns that serve the agenda is important part of such arguments.

Elster88 Dec 06 2005 08:23 AM

]Assuming unknowns that serve the agenda is important part of such arguments True. It's a trick I like to employ, too.

Centerfield Dec 06 2005 08:35 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Am I the only one who doesn't care at all about the World Baseball Classic? I might watch an inning or two because any baseball in March is worth looking at, but I won't be rooting for the country I was born in, or for the country where my great-grandparents were born. I really don't care who wins. I just don't want any Mets players getting hurt. That's my rooting interest. I'm with you Yancy. And at the risk of sounding un-patriotic, if I happen to catch a US-Dominican Republic game and Jeter is facing Pedro, I'm rooting for Pedro to strike him out on three pitches. In fact, just looking at the names associated with the US team, Jeter, Chipper, Asshead...ever since Piazza decided to play for Italy, I'm not sure there's anyone on our team I can even stomach rooting for.

Elster88 Dec 06 2005 08:47 AM

I hate Asshead.

metirish Dec 06 2005 08:49 AM

Damn I hadn't thought about that, it would be hard to cheer and root for Asshead in a tight spot...

OlerudOwned Dec 06 2005 09:21 AM

I just look foward to seeing A-Rod being shunned by whatever team he decides to play for.

Willets Point Dec 06 2005 09:30 AM

Centerfield wrote: ="Yancy Street Gang"]Am I the only one who doesn't care at all about the World Baseball Classic? I might watch an inning or two because any baseball in March is worth looking at, but I won't be rooting for the country I was born in, or for the country where my great-grandparents were born. I really don't care who wins. I just don't want any Mets players getting hurt. That's my rooting interest. I'm with you Yancy. And at the risk of sounding un-patriotic, if I happen to catch a US-Dominican Republic game and Jeter is facing Pedro, I'm rooting for Pedro to strike him out on three pitches. In fact, just looking at the names associated with the US team, Jeter, Chipper, Asshead...ever since Piazza decided to play for Italy, I'm not sure there's anyone on our team I can even stomach rooting for. Why do you hate America?

Centerfield Dec 06 2005 09:32 AM

Just so you know, I was standing when I posted that.

metirish Dec 06 2005 09:34 AM

Yeah I bet you hate the troops too.....shame on you..

SwitchHitter Dec 06 2005 10:30 AM

Hating guys on your team is a part of baseball. You root for your team anyway. Isn't that the definition of being a fan: you hate the players, you hate the manager, you hate the owners---but you love the team.

Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 10:36 AM

]Hating guys on your team is a part of baseball. You root for your team anyway. Isn't that the definition of being a fan: you hate the players, you hate the manager, you hate the owners---but you love the team. Nah, doesn't have to be.

KC Dec 06 2005 11:00 AM

>>>you hate the players, you hate the manager, you hate the owners---but you love the team.<<< I haven't felt that way about the Mets ever. .

Edgy DC Dec 06 2005 11:02 AM

Buck F. Martinez has been named U.S. manager, with Davey Johnson asked to be a coach. Huh? Their career winning percentages are like complements of one another. Martinez's is .465 and Johnson's is .564.

Frayed Knot Dec 06 2005 01:26 PM

And one more thing ... can the media folks who are adamantly against this actually take the time to learn at least a little bit about it before declaring it to be an impending disaster? I've heard several, just in the last day or two, saying some version of; "This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of ... and, by the way, who's going to be in it and what format are they using?"

metirish Dec 14 2005 06:41 AM

From klapisch today.. ] NEWS ITEM: Yankees block Posada, Mussina and Johnson from World Baseball Classic. Given their druthers, George Steinbrenner would keep all his players in camp next spring while the WBC is underway. The Yankees see no upside to the tournament; instead The Boss is haunted by the possibility of injuries to his stars, which explains why the Yankees requested that Major League Baseball rule against all their players participating. Teams do have the right to request their players be removed from the rosters. And in three cases, the Yankees prevailed. As reported by the New York Post, Jorge Posada was taken off Puerto Rico's team, and it's since been learned that Mike Mussina and Randy Johnson are being kept off the U.S. squad. The Yankees made the same request for Mariano Rivera, Jeter and A-Rod, but were turned down by the commissioner's office. Rivera may decide to sit out the tournament on his own, having told friends Panama has so little chance of winning he doesn't see the value of leaving spring training. And just where, exactly, will A-Rod land? He's so torn trying to choose between the U.S. and Dominican Republic, the third baseman recently told the commissioner's office and players' association he'll abide by whatever decision they make. Since then, A-Rod has started leaning towards the Dominican squad, as he revealed to WFAN on Tuesday.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2005 06:50 AM

If it's a news item, Alex Rodriguez should be called by his name.

metirish Dec 14 2005 09:29 AM

Well yeah you would think that , Klap is probably his buddy..more from him in the same article. ] THIS AND THAT: The Mets and Manny (Part Three). According to a major league executive, the Mets made a strong effort to trade Kris Benson to the Rangers recently, hoping to acquire starter Juan Dominguez and outfielder Laynce Nix and then package them with Carlos Beltran in exchange for Manny Ramirez. The deal with Texas dissolved, however, and Ramirez is no longer considered a front-burner issue at Shea.

Centerfield Dec 14 2005 09:36 AM

What a terrible deal that would be. Who would play center? Manny? Where could we find a centerfielder? Do you think the Pads would give us Cameron for Xavier Nady?

metirish Dec 14 2005 09:54 PM

Well the WBC just entered the polictical field...this is bullshit.. ] U.S. bans Cuba from Classic THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Cuba won't be allowed to send a team to next year's inaugural World Baseball Classic, the U.S. government told event organizers Wednesday. The decision by the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control was conveyed to Major League Baseball on Wednesday, according to Pat Courtney, a spokesman for the commissioner's office. A permit from OFAC is necessary because of U.S. laws governing certain commercial transactions with Fidel Castro's communist island nation. Paul Archey, the senior vice president of Major League Baseball International, and Gene Orza, the chief operating officer of the Major League Baseball Players Association, issued a joint statement saying the organizers would try to have the decision reversed. The commissioner's office and the union have jointly organized the 16-team tournament, which runs from March 3-20 in the United States, Puerto Rico and Japan. "We are very disappointed with the government's decision to deny the participation of a team from Cuba in the World Baseball Classic," Archey and Orza said. "We will continue to work within appropriate channels in an attempt to address the government's concerns and will not announce a replacement unless and until that effort fails." In Cuba, top sports officials met late Wednesday to discuss the issue, but no statement was immediately issued. Organizers had said the Cuban team likely would have included only players currently residing in Cuba and not defectors such as Jose Contreras, Orlando Hernandez and Livan Hernandez, who have become major league stars. In the tournament schedule announced last week, Cuba was to play its three first-round games in San Juan, Puerto Rico, facing Panama on March 8, the Netherlands on March 9 and Puerto Rico the following day. If the Cubans advanced, they would also have played their second-round games in Puerto Rico. "It is our policy that we do not confirm, deny or discuss licenses," Treasury spokeswoman Molly Millerwise said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "Generally speaking, the Cuba embargo prohibits entering into contracts in which Cuba or Cuban nationals have an interest." Rep. Jose Serrano, a New York Democrat, said Tuesday that he is circulating letters to be sent to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Treasury Secretary John Snow asking that Cuba be allowed to play. "Let's leave the politics out of this," Serrano said in a statement. "The World Baseball Classic should not be tainted by our grudge against Cuba's government. Cuba produces some of the finest baseball talent in the world and they deserve to participate." At last week's news conference in Dallas announcing tournament plans, Orza sounded nearly certain about OFAC granting a permit. "I do not think that is a serious impediment," Orza said, adding he was "very, very confident that the Cubans will play."

Edgy DC Dec 14 2005 10:06 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 16 2005 09:01 AM

I'd like to see the defectors put together a team (go Toca!) but obviously a team that reunifies them with their former countrymen would be ideal (if something of a pipe dream).

Nymr83 Dec 14 2005 10:59 PM

read more closely. the world baseball championship didn't bar anyone, the US government did.

MFS62 Dec 15 2005 06:50 AM

Didn't the Cuban team play the O's in OPACY a few years ago? Why is this different? The President is a big baseball fan. Let's see what he does. Later

seawolf17 Dec 16 2005 08:47 AM

A-Rod chooses (c) [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2260948]none of the above[/url]. ]"When faced with the decision to choose between my country, the United States of America and my Dominican heritage, I decided I will not dishonor either. "Sports participation should only include the admiration and respect an athlete has for a nation and family. I intend to play baseball only when I am dedicated to both. "Playing baseball for the New York Yankees allows you to honor and advance the interest of both without division." BARF.

metirish Dec 16 2005 08:56 AM

LOL...straight from his PR machine...oh and the IOC is not happy with Cuba getting banned by the Goverment.. [url=http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spcuba1215,0,275907.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines]Cuban ban hurts U.S. Olympic bids[/url]

Edgy DC Dec 16 2005 09:06 AM

That is pretty puke-worthy. Playing for your nation is not an insult to other nations, chump. Often it's an opportunity to show competitive respect for others. John McEnroe and Jimmy Conners were welcomed as heroes when they played Davis Cup for the United States against their hosts in Ireland. They then proceeded to respectfully pound their "family's" team to bits

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2005 09:09 AM

"When faced with the decision to choose between my country, the United States of America and my Dominican heritage, I decided I will not dishonor either. I'm so adverse to controversy I decided to take the wimpy way out. "Sports participation should only include the admiration and respect an athlete has for a nation and family. I intend to play baseball only when I am dedicated to both. No one really likes me anyway "Playing baseball for the New York Yankees allows you to honor and advance the interest of both without division." George said I couldn't go

metirish Dec 16 2005 09:16 AM

]George said I couldn't go He can say what he want's but this is how his decision will be seen, Rodriguez may have turned a non-issue into a controversey, no one would have cared who he had chosen but now with this stupidity people will be wondering what the hell is up with this guy.

Frayed Knot Dec 16 2005 09:23 AM

The Yanx have already put the kibosh on Posada, Unit, and Mussina. They apparently tried to do the same with Jeter but that request was denied (I have no idea what criteria the various committees are using). Meanwhile, Mariano was on the radio the other day claiming he hasn't decided yet but that the decision is totally up to him. Sure it is. Omar was quoted in one of the papers saying while that they haven't denied anyone's participation, they retain the right to do so and would monitor Pedro before making a decision (or something along those lines).

Willets Point Dec 16 2005 09:29 AM

Well you know, Jeter is the face of baseball so he has to participate.

HahnSolo Dec 16 2005 10:00 AM

Mariano's reason (per story above) is pretty lame as well. He's one of the best players in the nation's history, but won't participate b/c he doesn't think his team can win? Nice message to the homeland, Fruitbat! If everybody took his cue, we'd have three countries in the tournament. And don't worry, ARod, that Dominican lineup will be just fine without you.

Edgy DC Dec 23 2005 08:20 AM

Lots of movement on the Cuba front. 1) Baseball officials re-applied for a permit to allow Cuba to participate. 2) Puerto Rico has threatened to withdraw San Juan as a tournament host if Cuba is not allowed to participate. 3) US Congressman Lincoln Diaz-Blart (R-FL, 21st C.D.) is working with expatriates to put together a team of defectors to represent Cuba.

Frayed Knot Dec 27 2005 09:41 PM

Hideki Matsui is the latest to "decide" not to play. Funny how all those MFYs are deciding this at the same time even though the teams aren't supposed to be able to block their guys except for injury reasons. Although, to be fair, it is going to be a pain for U.S.-based Asian players to participate. They'd have to be over here for the beginning of ST, then heading to Asia where their team's early round games would be, then come back here for a while, then head to the west coast if their team is still in it, ...

Edgy DC Dec 28 2005 07:57 AM

He explained it all in a fifteen-page letter to Saduaharu Oh. Wow. How do you maintain your stature in your native country while forsaking them for the interests of the big-bucksing Yankees, when honor is a primary value in your country? Get the Yankee PR department to work with some Japanese lawyers in helping you write a torturous letter. Mets, Met farmhands, former Mets, and former Met farmhands who are already on a roster (acknowledging that some of these rosters have 40 or more players and still need to be pared down): Australia Justin Huber Canada Jason Bay Chinese Taipei Dominican Republic Pedro Martinez Italy Mike DiFelice Mike Piazza Marco Scutaro (currently unaffiliated, but expected to be designated as Italian, after MLB DNA testing) Korea Dae-Sung Koo Mexico Rigo Beltran Karim Garcia Panama Bruce Chen Puerto Rico Carlos Baerga Carlos Beltran Carlos Delgado Rey Sanchez United States Jason Isringhausen Al Leiter Billy Wagner David Wright Venezuela Edgardo Alfonzo Miguel Cairo Melvin Mora Victor Zambrano

Elster88 Dec 28 2005 08:20 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: Funny how all those MFYs are deciding this at the same time even though the teams aren't supposed to be able to block their guys except for injury reasons. If the MFYs really are exerting pressure to keep their players from competing in this thing, I hope the Mets do the same. I don't really give a crap about this thing. I'm not going to go nuts if the US wins.

Edgy DC Jan 02 2006 07:55 PM

Korea (and I'm assuming that means South Korea) has announced their 30 man roster and Jae Weong Seo has agreed to participate. I'm assuming that means it's all cleared with the Mets. I think the team considers Seo their top pitcher. They apparently have included five players on their roster who play a very short centerfield.

Nymr83 Jan 02 2006 08:42 PM

]I think the team considers Seo their top pitcher. At least someone realizes that he's good.

Edgy DC Jan 02 2006 08:52 PM

]I'm not going to go nuts if the US wins. Maybe not, but I can imagine some pro-Dominican enjoyment if Pedro Martinez outpitches Roger Clemens.

seawolf17 Jan 08 2006 11:30 AM

A-Rod says [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=klapisch_bob&id=2284007]no[/url] again.

metirish Jan 08 2006 08:20 PM

This thing looks like being a disaster, they should hold it a week after the WS so players can go full bore .

seawolf17 Jan 08 2006 08:29 PM

Sounds like the players are already fully bored. So is everyone else.

metirish Jan 08 2006 08:30 PM

hahaha...so true wolf.

Frayed Knot Jan 08 2006 08:53 PM

Poor Alex, a man without two countries.

metirish Jan 08 2006 08:54 PM

He's an Island onto himself, time to pitch a tent Alex.

metirish Jan 15 2006 08:38 PM

News on the WBC.. http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060112&content_id=1294742&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Willets Point Jan 15 2006 10:30 PM

That's more like news that news is coming.

metirish Jan 17 2006 08:35 PM

Our National nightmare is over....... ] Alex Rodriguez to play in World Baseball Classic By JON HEYMAN STAFF WRITER January 17, 2006, 10:23 PM EST After much deliberation and some arm twisting, Alex Rodriguez has decided to play in the World Baseball Classic. "Alex will play for the United States," Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, told Newsday Tuesday night. Rodriguez met last Tuesday with baseball commissioner Bud Selig and top union lawyer Gene Orza, and both Selig and Orza made personal pleas to Rodriguez to play. "In the end, Alex thought it was important that he honor his citizenship,'' Boras said. "He also felt playing wouldn't interfere too greatly with his goal of being a world champion.''

metirish Jan 17 2006 08:36 PM

]"He also felt playing wouldn't interfere too greatly with his goal of being a world champion.'' Huh?

OlerudOwned Jan 17 2006 08:39 PM

I'd be great if he didnt make the final cuts, just for being so annoying.

Edgy DC Jan 17 2006 08:43 PM

The World Baseball Classic: finally the competition to find out which is the greatest baseball nation in the world, to be decided by the greatest players in the world... competing under duress.

Frayed Knot Jan 17 2006 09:29 PM

I'm not sure that Hamlet was this wracked by indecision.

metirish Jan 18 2006 08:02 AM

This article from Klapisch is comical,more for how he explains the thinking that seems to go into every Gay-Rod decision........is he that insecure that he wants everyone to like him?..you can read the full statement on ..www.arod.com ] Wednesday, January 18, 2006 By BOB KLAPISCH SPORTS COLUMNIST The hours were tick-tick-ticking away, the deadline fast approaching for the World Baseball Classic's teams to finalize their rosters. Yet, as midnight approached, an entire industry still was waiting out Alex Rodriguez's decision. Or, to be more precise, his indecision. Was A-Rod playing for the Americans or Dominicans? Was he in or out of the tournament? The drama didn't end until 10:07 p.m., when Rodriguez's agent announced his client will be joining the U.S. team. No doubt A-Rod's decision was popular with the union, which had been pressuring him all day to end his holdout. But the Dominicans, whose president called A-Rod as part of a recruiting effort, felt jilted. So were the Yankees, who been assured by the third baseman that he'd spend spring training in Tampa. According to one Yankee insider, Rodriguez went as far to relay a personal message to George Steinbrenner last month. "Tell him I'm [sitting out] for him," A-Rod said. But that promise melted under the heat generated by the union and to a lesser degree the commissioner's office, each of whom had a stake in Rodriguez's participation. Play, they whispered to him. Just play. Pick a roster, any roster. It doesn't matter if it's the Americans or the Dominicans. Baseball's version of the Olympics needs the presence of the game's star athlete, is how the sales pitch went. One member of the American team further appealed to A-Rod by text messaging his cellphone. "Why are you doing this?" the player wrote, referring to Rodriguez's holdout. "You're just [cementing] the very perception that people criticize you for, that you try to please everyone." Such piercing logic finally broke A-Rod. A few minutes after 11 p.m., his Web site, A-Rod.com, carried the official wording of his flip-flop. "Following discussion with my family and agent, the Commissioner, and the Major League Baseball Players Association, I have decided to participate in the World Baseball Classic. "In recent weeks, following dialogue with caring friends and players, both Dominican and American, I reached the conclusion that if I played in the Classic, I would play for the United States and honor my American citizenship. "I appreciate the support and understanding of my fellow Dominican players and friends who aided me in making this decision. "The World Baseball Classic offers baseball and its fans an exciting new forum and I look forward, if selected, to representing the United States in what will be baseball's greatest international competition." That represented a stunning turnaround to those closest to A-Rod, especially those who'd been expecting a 6 p.m. announcement on the Web site. But when the hour came and went without any word, Yankee officials nervously began calling around, asking if anyone knew the reason for the delay. Rodriguez's handlers were questioned, including agent Scott Boras. In or out? Everyone wanted to know. Finally, the third baseman was reached and his answer only further muddied the waters. A-Rod told an intermediary that he "wasn't ready yet" to say he was blowing off the WBC -- only that he was "still working" on the wording of his statement. While Rodriguez insisted he was "99.9 percent sure" he was not going to play, that he'd yet to commit to a Yankees-only spring training was as maddening as it was comical. Or as one Yankee insider said, "Now I know how Alex drives everyone crazy." Why was it so hard for Rodriguez to reach a verdict? Because of the same demon that's haunted him throughout his career: the insatiable need to be universally liked. The longer Rodriguez vowed neutrality, the more restless the mob became. The union and commissioner wanted Rodriguez on board because he would instantly legitimize the tournament, as well as reverse a series of public-relations setbacks. Cuba is banned for now from participating, but is lobbying the U.S. government for permission to play in the tournament. In the meantime, the International Baseball Federation has vowed to withhold any sanctioning of the tournament and Puerto Rico has refused to host any of the first-round games unless the Cubans are allowed back in. On the American side, several key players -- John Smoltz and Barry Zito among them -- have changed their minds about playing. None of the Americans from the world champion White Sox lent his name to this cause. And no one was really sure if Roger Clemens would be healthy enough by March. Though the U.S. team promises to be a strong one, it's no means a blow-away favorite, which is why A-Rod's decision means so much. As well, the Dominicans were leaning on Rodriguez to acknowledge his Latin roots. Despite being American-born and a U.S. citizen, Rodriguez had been pressured by elected Dominican officials, not to mention his Dominican-born mother. So Rodriguez announced last month that he wasn't playing. The controversy was over, it seemed, even after The New York Times hinted two weeks ago that Rodriguez was dipping his toes in the water again -- this time for the Americans. Turns out, it was officials from the players' union who were suggesting that, even though none had directly consulted with Rod. As recently as last weekend, there was no sign that Rodriguez was facing a public-relations crisis. He attended Derek Jeter's charity golf tournament in Tampa, mingling with the likes of Reggie Jackson and Michael Jordan, without telling anyone he still was torn by the WBC. By Monday morning, all that was left was A-Rod's announcement. By then, MLB was busy finalizing its rosters: Each team had to submit a pool of 60 players, which then would be pared down to 30 by March 3. Anyone left off the initial 60 would not be permitted to play, not even sought-after stars such as Rodriguez. The U.S. squad had 42 names ready Monday night; the other 18 would be identified by Tuesday's midnight deadline. No wonder the Rodriguez saga was so all-consuming. This was the last chance, not just for him, but for all those waging a peer-pressure campaign. By 8 p.m., there still was no word. Nothing at 9 p.m., nothing at 10 p.m., either. Calls to Rodriguez's cellphone went directly to voice mail. Seven minutes later the world had its answer. Rodriguez had made up his mind. Again. E-mail: klapisch@northjersey.com

MFS62 Jan 18 2006 08:09 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jan 18 2006 08:12 AM

]Marco Scutaro (currently unaffiliated, but expected to be designated as Italian, after MLB DNA testing) Edgy, your posts are like Forrest Gump's box of chocolate. You never know what you're going to get. Well done. EDIT: What are the odds that Pedro knocks A-Rod right on his can for playing for "the other side"? What are the odds that Pedro knocks A-Rod down just for being A-Rod? Later

Edgy DC Jan 18 2006 08:09 AM

If the IBF doesn't sanction this, I'm not participating. That's final. -ish.

metirish Jan 18 2006 08:19 AM

This was probably posted but Nomar will play for Mexico, both parents are from there.

Frayed Knot Jan 18 2006 09:17 AM

Typical ARod. By trying so hard to make a decision that will piss off as few people as possible and put himself in the best light, he resorts to torturing himself for weeks on end and winds up pissing off a whole lot more people than he would have initially and comes off like a sniveling wimp in the process. There's always a guy in every niche who -- despite the best of intentions, and despite the advantages of being reasonably smart, good-looking, popular, and accomplished -- manages to look and sound like a complete dork with almost frightening frequency. A-Rod is offically the Al Gore of baseball.

Elster88 Jan 18 2006 09:27 AM

It's amazing that it happens to one of the most talented players in, dare I say it, history. Skill, money, and looks, and he's still a weenie. It must take an absolutely terrible loser-personality to pull that off.

Edgy DC Jan 20 2006 10:07 AM

Sports Illustrated is reporting that Cuba is back in after securing visas for the team by proimising to donate any money gained to victims of Hurricane Katrina.

seawolf17 Jan 20 2006 10:26 AM

Eh, too little too late. I think MLB really screwed the pooch on this one, top to bottom.

Frayed Knot Jan 21 2006 07:11 AM

I'm trying to confirm rumors that ARod has changed course yet again as is now offerring to play for Cuba in the upcoming WBC. After all, he did have an uncle who visited there once and those memories mean a lot to him.

abogdan Jan 24 2006 12:18 PM

Bonds is out b/c of injury risk. Who does that move into LF for the US? Berkman? Chipper? Luis Gonzalez?

metirish Jan 26 2006 05:29 PM

] Classic sets pitch limits THE ASSOCIATED PRESS January 26, 2006, 6:57 PM EST The World Baseball Classic set its pitch limits and mercy rules Thursday, designed to protect pitchers in the early stages of spring training and cut short one-sided games. Pitchers in the first round of games, scheduled from March 3-10, will be limited to 65 pitches. The amount rises to 80 pitches for the second round, set for March 12-16, and 95 for the semifinals on March 18 and the championship March 20. A 30-pitch outing must be followed by one day off, and a 50-pitch outing must be followed by four days off. No one will be allowed to pitch on three consecutive days. Pitchers who reach the limit will be allowed to complete the current plate appearance. The usual rule that a starting pitcher must throw at least five innings to get credit for a win will be waived. All games will use designated hitters. Games will be stopped after five innings when a team is ahead by 15 or more runs and after seven innings when a team is ahead by at least 10 runs. A game can be stopped in the middle of an inning if a team reaches the threshold. Limits also were set on players in the tournament from any major league team: 14 from an organization and 10 from its active 25-man roster or disabled list last Aug. 31. A major league team is allowed to waive the limit for its players. The tournament organizers -- the commissioner's office and the players' association -- also may block "players whose participation would otherwise impose an undue hardship" on their major league team. The rules gave the examples of "too many starting pitchers, too many catchers." The 16 teams in the WBC must submit final 30-man rosters five days before their openers. Teams can replace disabled players from names on their preliminary 60-man rosters, but only for following rounds. The tiebreakers in the standings used for advancement will be head-to-head record, followed by fewest runs allowed per inning, fewest earned runs allowed per inning, highest batting average in head-to-head games and a drawing of lots. The tiebreakers are based on International Baseball Federation rules. The WBC also stated its previously discussed rules on eligibility. A player can represent a country if he is a citizen, qualifies for citizenship, holds a passport or is qualified to hold a passport, is a legal resident, was born in the country, has a parent who is or was a citizen and has a parent who was born there.

Nymr83 Jan 26 2006 05:59 PM

Edgy DC wrote: The World Baseball Classic: finally the competition to find out which is the greatest baseball nation in the world, to be decided by the greatest players in the world... competing under duress. the way some of these guys are running away it makes playing for Castro seem like fun... ]Pitchers in the first round of games, scheduled from March 3-10, will be limited to 65 pitches. The amount rises to 80 pitches for the second round, set for March 12-16, and 95 for the semifinals on March 18 and the championship March 20. A 30-pitch outing must be followed by one day off, and a 50-pitch outing must be followed by four days off. No one will be allowed to pitch on three consecutive days. this should be called the "Sorry DR, you're going to have to pitch guys other than Pedro, rule." ]The WBC also stated its previously discussed rules on eligibility. A player can represent a country if he ... qualifies for citizenship... thats pretty broad... so theoretically if Israel fielded a team (not likely considering the israelis i know...they'd try to headbutt or kick the ball) Shawn Green would be eligible to play for them despite having never entered the country (Israeli law allows any jew to become a citizen) I'm sure that the laws of other countries could also create strange things like this, I'd prefer they narrowed it down to people who ARE citizens.

Edgy DC Jan 26 2006 07:37 PM

Yeah, it's the way the Olympics does it for some sport. But if the player's actual country doesn't mind, I guess I shouldn't. I guess the only real victim of Piazza playing for Italy is whoever the catcher he knocked off the Italian roster is. But it's theoretically the Piazza factor that allowed Italy their automatic qualification. If there was a qualifying tournament, they'd have been unlikely to advance to the Classic without the slumming Americans (or perhaps Argentinians). But the fun of seeing international competition is often the joy of seeing the struggle of anonymous and seemingly overmatched Davids facing down the Goliaths of the best nations.

seawolf17 Jan 27 2006 07:37 AM

Mercy rules? So glad our major league athletes have finally graduated to [url=http://www.progressiveboink.com/dugout/archive/nick14.htm]Little League[/url]. Baseball really screwed up this whole thing, didn't they? edit:AAAAAAAAAAAA! He's enormous!!!!!!!

metirish Jan 27 2006 07:41 AM

A ll hail to Seaver..

Elster88 Jan 27 2006 07:41 AM

HAIL

ScarletKnight41 Jan 27 2006 07:42 AM

Hail!

Edgy DC Jan 27 2006 07:43 AM

Best Super-Seaver post ever.

Edgy DC Jan 27 2006 07:49 AM

Back to business, David Wright has said he expects that A-Rod has knocked him off the US roster.

metirish Jan 27 2006 07:54 AM

That would probably make A-Rod very upset, keep this info from him, David will be busy working on his woman skills anyway...

metirish Jan 27 2006 08:35 PM

Pedro speaks ] Pedro: A-Rod made an error Mets' ace thinks the Yankees' star should play for 'us,' not U.S. BY KEN DAVIDOFF STAFF WRITER January 27, 2006, 10:08 PM EST Pedro Martinez and Alex Rodriguez are longtime friends, so much so that last winter, during Martinez's free agency, the right-hander met with and confided in the Yankees' third baseman. Yet Martinez, who wound up signing with the Mets, is disappointed that A-Rod has chosen to play for the United States -- instead of the Dominican Republic -- in the upcoming World Baseball Classic. Martinez chose to share this sentiment publicly. "Alex is American because he was born in the United States, but after what Mike Piazza -- a future Hall of Famer -- did, who will be playing for Italy, and Nomar Garciaparra, who will be playing for Mexico, he had an excuse to do the same with the Dominican Republic," said Martinez, who intends to pitch for his native Dominican Republic. Martinez's statements were spoken to the Dominican-based television network Color Vision. ESPN.com first reported of the interview here. "Now Alex must prepare for the nasty comments that will arise in the Bronx, where almost half of the citizens are Latino and purely Dominican," Martinez said. "In fact, when Alex gets [to the Dominican Republic] it's possible that not even the reporters will be here to welcome him." Rodriguez, who couldn't be reached for comment Friday, agonized over his WBC decision, initially hinting he would play for the Dominican, then declining to select a team, then dropping out, then ultimately signing on for the U.S. team. In announcing his (seemingly) final decision, Rodriguez credited a telephone conversation he had with Manny Ramirez, the Dominican native, who told A-Rod he could play for the U.S. club. Ramirez and Martinez are good friends, having played together for the Boston Red Sox. On other topics, Martinez, who didn't attend the Mets' caravan this past week, confirmed that he recently married Carolina Cruz, a Dominican reporter for ESPN. He also spoke extensively about his notoriously ailing right big toe, saying that he is still waiting for the specially designed shoe from Nike that, he hopes, will provide the necessary cushion. "I have faith in God, and I know I'll be ready," Martinez said. "I'm being optimistic that I'll be able to play the World Baseball Classic and the 2006 season." The injury, Martinez said, resulted from "irregular movement" from his pitching delivery, damaging the cartilage of the toe. "The pain became insufferable during the 2004 season, and I had to take a cortisone shot in order to tolerate the pain and be able to help Boston win the World Series," he said. "Last year, the pain returned in June, but the doctors recommended that, rather than ignoring the wound by applying cortisone, I rehabilitate the foot instead, which is what we're doing right now." His friendship with A-Rod might need some rehabilitation, as well, following Martinez's television appearance in the Dominican.

Edgy DC Jan 27 2006 09:55 PM

I like how it's not the Dominicans in Santo Domingo that should be upset, but the ones in the Bronx. Huh?

Nymr83 Jan 27 2006 09:57 PM

Pedro isn't the brightest of ballplayers (as evidenced by his pitching exhibition games in the WBC when he is still hurting)

metirish Jan 27 2006 10:08 PM

Pedro strikes me as a very smart person, representing his country obviously means a lot to him.

Frayed Knot Jan 27 2006 10:35 PM

="Nymr83"]Pedro isn't the brightest of ballplayers (as evidenced by his pitching exhibition games in the WBC when he is still hurting) This attitude is silly. If there were no such thing as the WBC Pedro would be throwing (more or less) the same amount of pitches at roughly the same time of year ... just in Florida against ST Braves & Nationals et al instead of wherever against Venz & maybe the U.S. With pitch limits, 30-man rosters, and a max total of 8 games (and even that's only for the teams that get to the finals) a starter like Pedro will likely pitch (at most) parts of 3 games spread out over 3 weeks. And with Manny Acta as his manager it's not like there's any danger of someone gonna go to the whip over him anyway. The nay-sayers for this tourney are acting as if the players ** Oh God, they might get hurt!!!!" ** would be sunning themselves on the beach otherwise and have already set-up the scenario to blame the WBC for every injury that occurs. Trachsel & Benson, you may recall, each got hurt last Spring w/o ever leaving the Sunshine State. If Pedro's toe isn't ready he won't play - but if that occurs I'd treat it as a bad thing not a good. It means that he'd also likely be behind for ST (and maybe the reg season) if that's the case. As of a day or two ago, Omar was quoted as saying that Pedro in the tourney is still about 50/50 at this point.

Elster88 Jan 28 2006 01:38 AM

]The nay-sayers for this tourney are acting as if the players ** Oh God, they might get hurt!!!!" ** would be sunning themselves on the beach otherwise and have already set-up the scenario to blame the WBC for every injury that occurs. Trachsel & Benson, you may recall, each got hurt last Spring w/o ever leaving the Sunshine State. There's a huge difference between pitching to Albert Pujols in a WBC game and the Norfolk Tides in a normal spring training game. The yay-sayers for this tourney act like the players would put the same effort into a WBC game when they are representing their country as they would if they were just playing against Cleveland's split squad team in a regular spring training game.

Frayed Knot Jan 28 2006 07:22 AM

But you'd be pitching to the likes of Albert Pujols in reg ST also. The only real argument for increased injuries due to the WBC is the notion that these players are going to "try too hard" in March above and beyond what they normally would, a speculative point IMO and something that can be "solved" simply by everyone keeping their collective heads about them. Again, this is a handful of games (3-8 per team) involving a small pct of the MLers (15%?) that are being played once every couple of years at a time when the players would pretty much be doing the same thing anyway - just in a different format. And it's not like I'm getting all gung-ho over this, it just seems as if the case is being made in advance from many quarters to blame all potential injuries on the WBC as if they'd be non-existant otherwise because reg ST is nothing but a leisurely day at the park. Except that there was Mookie's eye injury - and at least one of Payton's elbow blowouts - and Trax & Benson last year - and Ventura's devastating ankle w/the ChiSox - and when Chipper's ML career was delayed an entire year when he blew out his knee sliding - or hell, let's throw in Ray Fosse's, Ted Williams' and Harmon Killebrew's AS Game injuries and ban that.

Elster88 Jan 28 2006 11:59 AM

I think what we Americans don't realize is how much this tournament means to other countries. I don't see why it's so hard to believe that someone like Pedro is going to be pushing himself a lot harder in the WBC then in a split squad game. Yes, obviously Pujols plays in spring training. But I don't get why people don't believe that competing in the WBC is much different than in ST. Players only play half games, or even a couple of innings in some ST games. Players will take games off all the time. Pujols or another nasty hitter is getting more at-bats in the WBC, and is going to be playing more games. You're going to see him more often, and thus be trying to get him out in tight spots more often. Everyone is going to be playing harder. I repeat: Do you really not think that a player, playing for his country, is going to get more revved up then he will for a split squad game in Port St. Lucie? You don't think they're going to care more when it's 2-2 in the ninth? You really think they give a crap if they win or lose ST games? If you don't think there is a difference between WBC and ST and the effort put forth in those two types of games (and thus the increased chance for injury), then I don't know how to argue my point. But I think the difference between ST and WBC is huge, and obvious. Just one man's opinion.

Nymr83 Jan 28 2006 12:23 PM

not only that, but players who are INJURED (read: pedro) might take the mount when in ST they'd just throw on the side and call it a day.

Rockin' Doc Jan 28 2006 12:38 PM

I do agree with Elster's point that the intensity level of WBC games will be greater than that generally displayed (particularly by veterans) in spring training games. For other countries, the WBC is analogous to the Olympics as far as baseball is concerned. Only now, they truly have their best players representing their country. Luckily the number of games to be played by each team will be rather minimal as Frayed Knot pointed out previously. I'm glad to see that pitch limits and appearance limits have been installed to protect pitcher's arms.

Frayed Knot Jan 28 2006 02:28 PM

I do realize that this tourney means more to the smaller countries than it does here. Essentially, this tourney exists for the benefit of the smaller countries. I just don't equate "getting more revved up" to increased injuries. The main chance of that happening is if pitchers were over-extended too early but they've put the rules in to prevent that. Pedro's not going to be pitching to ARod in the late innings because he'll either be long out of the game by then or it will be in the finals in late March when he'll have built up to near full-game strength anyway. These will be squads carrying 4-5 closers on their rosters and I suspect the usage will be closer to that of AS games then it will to late-Sept pennant drive contests. Even a star pitcher will be used in this tourney for at most portions of 3 games. It's not like they're going to undergo a month-long diet of high-tension games. Again, it's not that I'm all jazzed up over this, I just think that much of the worry about it is overblown.

Nymr83 Jan 28 2006 03:00 PM

]I just don't equate "getting more revved up" to increased injuries. my concern is that the "importance" of the games will cause guys to play when they should be taking it easy to rehab an existing injury

Frayed Knot Jan 28 2006 03:22 PM

Which is pretty much what started this part of the discussion ... but if Pedro (or anyone for that matter) decides to play through an existing injury then shame on them and let's then blame stupidity for their loss rather than the existance of the WBC. Besides, his toe is being monitored and Omar has already said he's no better than 50/50 to play at this point. But y'know what, if Pedro's toe is going to be a problem after 5 months off then it's going to be a problem all year long. So rather than feeling grateful that he'll be taking the WBC off I'd be worried that he felt he had to and that he's not going to be ready for the season. I'm going to trust Petey and the powers at be to make the right call on this one.

Nymr83 Jan 28 2006 04:01 PM

i'm pretty pissed that its an issue at all after he was allowed to pitch winterball, he shouldn't have done that if he wasnt 110%. the Mets (quite properly in my opinion) shut him down in september for his health, he shouldnt have pitched again until spring training.

Elster88 Jan 28 2006 04:16 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: I just don't equate "getting more revved up" to increased injuries. The main chance of that happening is if pitchers were over-extended too early but they've put the rules in to prevent that. Yeah, I'm really only speculating that getting worked up makes it more likely for someone to get hurt. I was just making the conclusion that "playing harder --> increased injury change", which is admittedly somewhat shaky. I get very nervous when it comes to Pedro. I want him to play the whole of the 2006 season. Frayed Knot wrote: Pedro's not going to be pitching to ARod in the late innings because he'll either be long out of the game by then or it will be in the finals in late March when he'll have built up to near full-game strength anyway. Your main point is a good one. I hope the managers are careful not to overextend or even just regular-extend these guys. Like I said, I'm just extra nervous about Pedro. And Delgado. And anyone else that is a key to 2006. Young David isn't going to enter this silly tournament, right?

A Boy Named Seo Jan 28 2006 04:25 PM

I'm kinda psyched about this silly tournament and wanna check out an Anaheim game or two.

Elster88 Jan 28 2006 04:28 PM

="Frayed Knot"]Which is pretty much what started this part of the discussion ... but if Pedro (or anyone for that matter) decides to play through an existing injury then shame on them and let's then blame stupidity for their loss rather than the existance of the WBC. Besides, his toe is being monitored and Omar has already said he's no better than 50/50 to play at this point. But y'know what, if Pedro's toe is going to be a problem after 5 months off then it's going to be a problem all year long. So rather than feeling grateful that he'll be taking the WBC off I'd be worried that he felt he had to and that he's not going to be ready for the season. I'm going to trust Petey and the powers at be to make the right call on this one. You're probably right. I heard on the FAN today that even though Pedro is so huge in the DR and even though he really wants to play he might call it off because of his Shaqtoe. I should stop acting like Little Petey is a porcelain doll too. He's a grown man. He just acts like a silly kid.

Nymr83 Jan 28 2006 04:30 PM

see, Delgado i don't care about...there is no pre-existing injury that shut him down at the end of last year and which still lingers, he can participate if he wants, its an injured pitcher that i want to keep out of it

Elster88 Jan 28 2006 04:30 PM

Pedro is my main concern too.

Edgy DC Jan 28 2006 10:14 PM

Manny Acta looking to take Reyes.

Frayed Knot Jan 29 2006 08:41 AM

]Young David isn't going to enter this silly tournament, right? He's on the current (50 man?) roster which will eventually be cut down to 30 and DW himself has speculated that the late addition of Sir Alex of Arodia might spell his exit from the final squad.

metirish Jan 30 2006 01:34 PM

Decent article on the cup .... ] World Baseball Classic quietly causing concern By Barry Rozner Daily Herald Sports Columnist Posted Monday, January 30, 2006 It wasn’t just that people didn’t want to talk about the World Baseball Classic at SoxFest over the weekend. It was the way they didn’t want to talk about it. “Uh, uh. Don’t ask me,’’ White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said with a smirk. “I’ve already gotten in trouble for it.’’ If Williams and every other GM in baseball could say what they think, it might be that the WBC was a bad idea from the start. It got worse as the tourney was slated for March, when pitchers are easing their arms back into shape, ripping up scar tissue and remembering what it’s like to be in pain every minute of every day from February to October. Now, instead of coasting, Sox pitchers such as Javy Vazquez (Puerto Rico) and Freddy Garcia (Venezuela) have to pitch for their home countries or face harsh words — or worse — at home. Asked whom he would root for, the United States or Venezuela, Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said, “Venezuela. I have to. They might shoot me if I don’t.’’ Who’s to say he wasn’t at least half-serious? While many of the best American players blow it off, Latin players pretty much have to represent their countries if they are extended an invitation. So let’s talk about what no one was talking about this weekend: Someone’s probably going to get hurt in the WBC and cost his team a chance at the postseason in 2006. There will be injured pitchers who don’t even reveal their injuries until June or July. There will be pitchers who suffer wear and tear and stressful innings long before their shoulders are ready for such a burden. And there will be pitchers, perhaps Garcia and Vazquez among them, who haven’t even recovered from last fall yet and will struggle during the season because of the early stress of the WBC. Players and execs alike are rolling their eyes but keeping their mouths shut on orders from above as the tournament approaches. MLB might be able to silence the GMs today, but come the end of the tourney, some are going to be screaming at baseball boss Bud Selig to give them back the 200 innings, Gold Glove or 100 runs scored they just lost to an exhibition game that few in the States seem to have any interest in right now. There’s nothing wrong with the idea of a world tournament. We’re all for it, but baseball hasn’t figured out yet when or how to do it. If it’s that important to Selig, do it in-season and take a couple of weeks out of the schedule when pitchers are ready … and less likely to get hurt. Of course, MLB isn’t going to forfeit tens of millions. Fine, start the season a few days early, go a few days late and shut it down for two weeks in the middle and dump the All-Star Game. You can’t compare this world tourney to the Olympics or any other cup because in no other sport does a player — in this case a pitcher — rely solely on a few strands of tissue for his living. If damaged, a bad shoulder can ruin a season or a career. It’s a terrible risk to take, and there are going to be baseball execs in Florida and Arizona holding their breath until the WBC is over. After that, don’t expect them all to hold their tongues. http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/rozner.asp?id=148597

Frayed Knot Jan 30 2006 02:09 PM

I hate sounding like I'm beating the same drum over and over here while coming off like some Selig marketing toady -- and I wouldn't if I didn't think some of the arguments against this thing are just so over the top: From the above piece: "It got worse as the tourney was slated for March, when pitchers are easing their arms back into shape, ripping up scar tissue and remembering what it’s like to be in pain every minute of every day from February to October." Hold all new entries! It's only January but the "overstatement of the year award" has already found it's winner. "There will be injured pitchers who don’t even reveal their injuries until June or July" As expected, all injuries are to be blamed on this no matter when they show up and regardless of whether cause can be determined. Nothing like starting with the conclusion and then retro-fitting the evidence to support it. "There will be pitchers who suffer wear and tear and stressful innings long before their shoulders are ready for such a burden." "All those innings" are going to number less than 10 for almost everyone and are going to occur in place of innings they'd be pitching anyway, not in addition to. "Players and execs alike are rolling their eyes but keeping their mouths shut on orders from above as the tournament approaches." The players and execs also signed off on this or it wouldn't be happening.

Frayed Knot Feb 15 2006 07:59 AM

Team USA announced their final 30-man roster yesterday. Only Wagner is on it from our squad. Wright & LoDuca got the boot as they cut down from the initial 50-some roster. [u:7ed22b1613]Pitchers[/u:7ed22b1613] Rogers Clemens Jake Peavy C.C. Sabathia Dontrelle Willis Chad Cordero Brian Fuentes Todd Jones Brad Lidge Joe Nathan Scot Shields Huston Street Mike Timlin Billy Wagner Dan Wheeler [u:7ed22b1613]Catchers[/u:7ed22b1613] Michael Barrett Brian Schneider Jason Varitek [u:7ed22b1613]Infielders[/u:7ed22b1613] Derrek Lee Mark Teixeira Chase Utley Michael Young Derek Jeter Chipper Jones Alex Rodriguez [u:7ed22b1613]Outfielders[/u:7ed22b1613] Johnny Damon Jeff Francoeur Ken Griffey Matt Holliday Vernon Wells Randy Winn, of Giants Decent starters, good bullpen, great IF, so-so outfield

Edgy DC Feb 15 2006 08:12 AM

Dan Wheeler?

Nymr83 Feb 15 2006 09:06 AM

The Post had Randy Winn mistakenly listed at Catcher.

Willets Point Feb 15 2006 09:55 AM

Dominican Republic is so going to school the USA. When the WBC starts we should have IGT's to get us warmed up for the regular season (and keep this thread from growing into a monster).

metirish Feb 17 2006 09:51 AM

Chipper Jones might opt out of the WBC, would that open the door for David Wright?. [url=http://www.ajc.com/friday/content/epaper/editions/friday/sports_345fb7a5072331150010.html]Chipper may opt out of World Classic[/url] Get well soon Shea.:) sorry, registration required...here it is ] Lake Buena Vista, Fla. --- Chipper Jones was the strongest and fittest that he'd been in years. Then he got sick. The Braves third baseman said he lost eight pounds in eight days during a recent bout with the flu, but that's not the reason Jones might withdraw from the upcoming World Baseball Classic. His 18-month-old son, Shea, had a serious intestinal virus and was in and out of an Atlanta hospital for a month. The toddler's condition has improved and stabilized, but Jones wants to make sure Shea is OK before deciding whether to go to Phoenix March 2 for the start of the United States' team training camp. "I would love to play [in the Classic], but my family's most important," said Jones, who reported to spring training along with Braves pitchers and catchers on Thursday, five days before position players were due. If his son remains stable, Jones still plans to play in the WBC. But if Shea has any more problems, Dad doesn't want to be any further away from home than is absolutely necessary for his job. If he had to get back to Atlanta in a hurry, Jones could do it easier from training camp than Arizona. "If everything stays the way it is now with Shea, I'll play [in the WBC]," Jones said. Outfielder Jeff Francoeur is also on the U.S. team for the inaugural Classic. Braves players set to play for other countries include center fielder Andruw Jones (Netherlands); pitcher Jorge Sosa (Dominican Republic); reliever Chris Reitsma and infielders Pete Orr and Scott Thorman (all Canada), and pitcher Oscar Villarreal (Mexico). Jones said before he got sick a few weeks ago, he was "jacked up" with excitement about the WBC and the Braves' season. After injury-plagued seasons in 2004-05, he decided to hire a personal trainer this winter. Jones followed a schedule of rigorous, supervised workouts in Atlanta and at his Texas ranch (yes, the trainer went with him out west). Teammates who saw him said he was noticeably more muscular. Jones said he was up to 228 pounds last month and in outstanding shape --- similar, he said, to the condition he was in during his 1999 National League MVP season when he hit .319 with 45 homers. Thursday, he was so weak after one round of batting practice, he went back to his rental house to sleep. "It feels like a lot of what I worked for this offseason, I lost," he said. "When you take 10 days off, it's easy to lose it, when a bowl of chicken soup is all you can eat. I had a legitimate 100-plus fever for eight days. "I felt like I had to get down here [to spring training] as soon as I could and get started again." In the next two weeks of Braves camp, he hopes to regain his strength and conditioning. He's worked hard and made sacrifices for the upcoming season, and Jones doesn't want to see the efforts wasted. He agreed in November to restructure his contract, taking a pay cut for this season --- from $17 million to $11 million --- and getting two option years (2007-08) converted to guaranteed years. The restructuring, which was Jones' idea, was done to help the Braves free up some salary to fill other needs, including their attempt to re-sign shortstop Rafael Furcal and get a closer. They failed in both pursuits, though the Braves were able to replace Furcal with a quality shortstop, Edgar Renteria. "I've liked Edgar a long time," Jones said of the former Florida and St. Louis All-Star. "I thought we should have been in the running for him a long time ago. Clutch hitter, situational hitter, Gold Glove-caliber shortstop. You can't ask for anything more." But Jones acknowledged the Braves enter spring training with some questions, notably at closer and the top of the batting order. Second baseman Marcus Giles will probably replace leadoff man Furcal, who served as the spark plug of Atlanta's offense with his combination of switch-hitting power and speed. "I'm sure Gilly will be the first option," Jones said. "He's certainly not the prototypical leadoff hitter. I'm not saying he can't adjust. But it's going to be different than it has been around here."

abogdan Feb 17 2006 10:45 AM

Looks like the US's strategy will be 4 innings from their 4 starters and then a steady stream of relievers to finish it out.

Frayed Knot Feb 17 2006 11:45 AM

Due to pitch count limits that's going to be everyone's strategy. It virtually has to be. Always fun to see Mt. St. George erupting all over the papers today about this tourney and about his "disappointment" in the few of his players who the Yanx didn't threaten (I mean encourage) out of participating. I wonder what he's actually more mad about?: that they might get hurt; or that those marquee names won't be in Tampa to ramp up attendance in ST games.

abogdan Feb 18 2006 11:03 AM

Right, but you could have 10 starters and have each do a tandem start like some teams do in the low minors, instead of using 7 pitchers a game.

metirish Feb 19 2006 07:10 PM

I read an interesting bit of info today in ESPN the mag, Carlos Lee is of course one of the big stars on the Panama squad, his younger brother is also part of that roster, his name?...Carlos Lee...weird.

metirish Feb 19 2006 09:20 PM

Bob Klapisch on Pedro....I hope he doesn't pitch for the DR... ] Sunday, February 19, 2006 By BOB KLAPISCH PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- After watching Pedro Martinez long-toss for 15 minutes on Saturday, it's a dead heat who's being more cautious -- the Mets' ace, who's clearly still in pain, or the Mets' hierarchy, which is inexplicably afraid to order Pedro out of the World Baseball Classic. Say what you want about George Steinbrenner and his off the charts buffoonery quotient: The Boss is the only owner who's honest about his fears of the upcoming international tournament. When The Boss blasted the WBC the other day, he wasn't just taking on Bud Selig, he was challenging Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez and Johnny Damon to remember their priorities. The Mets, who have six players headed for the tournament, have no stomach for this fight, even though in Pedro's case they have everything to lose. Martinez himself says he's a week behind the other Met pitchers, still unable to run or move side to side -- and most significantly, not yet throwing off a mound. The long-toss session in the outfield at least proved there's nothing wrong with Pedro's arm, but his big right toe remains mysteriously sore, even though it's been almost five months since his last start. With the first round of the WBC scheduled to begin in two weeks, it's virtually impossible to envision Martinez pitching for the Dominican Republic. But he nevertheless prattled on about his plans to leave the Mets in early March. "I would love to represent my country and to actually be a part of it even if it's not in the first round," is what Martinez said. Any Met official should've cringed, remembering that Pedro is already in his decline phase -- 34 years old and no longer topping 90 mph on the radar gun. The potential crisis here is obvious: without a healthy Martinez, the entire off-season resurrection could crumble. That's how questionable the rotation might be, given the age of the Nos. 2 and 3 starters (Tom Glavine and Steve Trachsel are a combined 75 years old) and the fact that Jae Seo and Kris Benson are gone. If Martinez is headed for a long summer looking for special-fitting shoes or different painkillers, the Mets will need the help of two potential saviors. The first is A's general manager Billy Beane, who eventually could decide to trade Barry Zito. The other is rookie Mike Pelfrey, who impressed everyone in camp with his blistering fastball on Saturday. While Pedro was reduced to a game of catch with manager Willie Randolph, the Mets' No. 1 draft pick offered glimpses of why he's the club's best pitching prospect of the last two decades, and why he was able to hold out for a $3.55 million signing bonus on top of a total contract worth $5.25 million. The 6-foot-7, 210-pound Pelfrey is blessed with near-perfect mechanics -- straight over-the-top release point, long, loose follow-through -- although the right-hander modestly says, "This is still a work in progress." The Mets made no attempt to hide their enthusiasm. When asked about Pelfrey, Randolph said, "He's huge. I was impressed with how the ball flew out of his hand." There are some baseball people who believe Pelfrey already is the franchise's most talented pitcher -- even today, without having thrown an inning in the minor leagues. But don't expect the Mets to hurry Pelfrey to Shea in 2006 or even 2007, no matter how great the temptation. Instead, they'll wait for Pedro's contract to expire to anoint the next ace, even if Martinez, creakier with each passing summer of his four-year deal, becomes just a 12-15 game winner. In the meantime, the Mets would be doing Martinez a favor by muscling him out of the WBC, giving him a face-saving way out of his commitment to the Dominican Republic. The political pressure on Martinez is, of course, enormous. Just ask Alex Rodriguez what it's like to say no to an entire country obsessed with beating the Americans. Even though fellow countryman Bartolo Colon is the AL's reigning Cy Young Award winner, it's Pedro who's considered the Dominicans' No. 1 pitcher and their best hope of becoming world champs. Those close to Martinez insist he's no dummy, that he would love to get out of the tournament -- and will do so in the first round, as he's already hinting. But he first needs someone to take the heat for him, either Randolph or general manager Omar Minaya. But so far, neither one of Pedro's superiors has taken the initiative. Minaya, in fact, continues to champion the tournament, saying, "If it's good for baseball, then it's good for the Mets." The GM is sticking to his belief that "no one knows Pedro's body better than him. We trust him to make the right decision." Pitching coach Rick Peterson is similarly downplaying Martinez's dilemma, likening him to an Indy 500 race car that simply needs more maintenance than a family sedan. It's not quite that simple, of course. If Pedro is a race car, then his tender sesamoid bone is proof that he's paying the price for years of running at super-high RPMs. The pitching coach said as much, describing the "violent" rotation of Martinez's right foot during his delivery. It's been bothering Pedro since 2004 and forced him to end his season prematurely last September. Now the Mets are left wondering what to do about 2006 and beyond. Keeping Pedro in camp in March is the first step on the road map to prosperity. And then, sooner or later, the Mets will come to their turning point moment, choosing between Zito or Pelfrey, officially ushering in the post-Pedro era. E-mail: klapisch@northjersey.com

seawolf17 Feb 21 2006 10:32 AM

Everybody run over to [url=http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2192855&cp=2164444.2167093&parentPage=family]mlb.com[/url] and order your Dominican Republic #9 REYES jerseys!

metirish Feb 23 2006 07:22 AM

] Pedro to miss first round WBC BY JON HEYMAN AND DAVID LENNON STAFF CORRESPONDENTS February 23, 2006 PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Pedro Martinez's lingering right big toe injury will keep him out of at least the opening-round games of the World Baseball Classic, Newsday has learned. Martinez said yesterday he is hoping to join his Dominican team for later rounds "if everything goes perfectly." "Without a doubt my country's people expect me to perform, but only if I'm healthy," Martinez told Newsday. "They know in the long run it's better to see me pitch every five days than not at all, even if it's the Classic." Mets officials met Tuesday with officials from the Dominican team and are closely monitoring the situation involving their star pitcher. They say they are putting their "trust" in Martinez to make the prudent calls. "We have full trust in Pedro," general manager Omar Minaya said. "I think he wants to play, and he's going to do everything he can to play. But he is very understanding of the bigger issues. We're confident he'll be OK as far as the season goes. He's not going to risk his career or his year for the sake of playing." Interest in Martinez's participation is high in his homeland, where he is an icon. Martinez said he would "love to play," but he understands his importance to the Mets and stressed he will not do anything to risk further injury. He has been diagnosed with cartilage damage in the toe, the same injury that hampered him late in the 2004 and '05 seasons. Martinez pointed out several steps remain before he's ready to pitch. "I'm optimistic, but I'm still trying to work my way through things," Martinez said. "Hopefully, my toe gives me the right signs. I need to work, and hopefully everything goes perfectly. If I'm not in position to help them, I don't want to mess it up." After his long-toss session on the outfield grass yesterday at Tradition Field, Martinez said his toe is "improving." He said he hopes to throw off harder ground or the front slope of the mound by the weekend. However, he also said, "I can't put a timetable on it. My body reacts differently every day." Martinez used plastic cleats for yesterday's sessions and is working his way up to his metal spikes, which have been modified by Nike to accommodate his injury. The Dominican team, a WBC favorite, plays first-round games against Venezuela March 7 and vs. Italy March 9, in Orlando. Stan Javier, general manager of the Dominican team, understands the uncertainty of the situation despite Martinez's strong desire to play. "Right now we have to wait and see how he feels," Javier said. "That's why it's so important to have the first week of spring training. He knows what he needs to do. He's been in the game a long time."

Nymr83 Feb 25 2006 09:38 PM

9PM Friday on UPN- China v. Korea! yikes, i cant believe they are putting this on primetime television especially for a game between 2 teams clearly in the lower half of the pool.

Frayed Knot Feb 26 2006 08:18 PM

Nationals P Brian Lawrence was diagnosed with a torn labrum and is out until after midseason. Dammit, I knew this was going to happen as soon as the WBC got going. Oh, wait a minute!

Nymr83 Feb 26 2006 08:19 PM

Obviously he got hurt getting ready to watch the tournament.

Rotblatt Feb 28 2006 11:30 AM

Clay Davenport over at BP weighted Pool A (first game this Thusday) in what was a pretty instructive look at how to handicap teams without having much first-hand knowledge of them. It's subscribers only, but he picks Japan as the favorites, with Korea suprisingly close behind. From Davenport's projections, Taiwan won't even come close, and China's a joke. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4809 Maybe it's the Chiba/White Sox thing, but I really want Japan to kick ass and take names in the WBC. Does that make me un-American?

Rotblatt Feb 28 2006 11:56 AM

I finally took a look at the rosters, and this could be kind of fun. I'm curious as to which players are going to come from out of nowhere to impress us . . . Pool B sucks aside from the US, but the DR & Venezuela should both be pretty good from Pool D. Puerto Rico looks like it'll be the best in Pool C, but Cuba's kind of a dark horse candidate . . . My best guess so far: Korea, Japan, US, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, DR & Puerto Rico advance to Round 2. Of those, Japan, US, DR & Venezuela advance to the Semi's. Clearly, the US & DR have the best players, but I think Japan has a bit of an advantage in that they'll be taking this more seriously than the scattered US players. I'm really looking forward to this. I had joked with my girlfriend about buying tickets to Puerto Rico to see this, and I kind of wish I had done it now.

ABG Feb 28 2006 12:47 PM

I'll actually be in Florida for work over next week. I was really hoping to catch Venezuela-D.R., but it appears to be sold out. I'll probably check out Signore Piazza's squad against Venezuela instead.

metirish Feb 28 2006 02:01 PM

ties? ] NEW YORK (AP) -- Get ready for ties in the first World Baseball Classic. Organizers said Tuesday that games in the first two rounds of the tournament will be ended after 14 innings, even if teams remain tied. In addition, the tournament's technical committee may suspend semifinal games after 14 innings if "pitcher availability for both teams would be substantially jeopardized by not suspending the game and pitcher availability would be substantially enhanced by resuming the game as a suspended game on the next day." Ties would count as half a win and half a loss in determining a team's winning percentage, organizers said. Rain also could cause situations that deviate from normal major league rules. Game can be suspended, even if they have not gone long enough become regulation games. If the game affects which teams will advance, organizers will attempt to schedule the completion of the game for the following day. If it the game is suspended again during the first two rounds or the game isn't finished, the team that is ahead would be declared the winner if it is a regulation game, it would be a tie if the teams are even or it would be ruled "no game" if it hasn't become a regulation game.

Willets Point Feb 28 2006 02:04 PM

="metirish"]ties?

SI Metman Feb 28 2006 03:09 PM

I was looking at the ol' TV Guide and saw that UPN 9 will be airing China vs Korea live on Friday night at 9 PM. ESPN2 will be airing a condensed version at 12:30 AM and has Taipei vs Japan at 4 AM. Both games are from the Tokyo Dome.

Frayed Knot Mar 01 2006 07:39 AM

The [url=http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/060301wbctv.html]entire grid[/url] for those jonesing for your TV baseball fix. There will prolly be local stations - like the Ch 9 example from SI's post - that will pick up games listed as only available over ESPN Deportes.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 01 2006 07:44 AM

Another guy I met in line for tixx the other day was explaining he was born in the Domincan Republic and didn't know much about baseball (?) till became a Met fan during the 1986 series. His advice: Get the pulse of interest in the WBC at Barber Shops in upper Manhattan. Nobody will be getting a haircut, but they will be packed anyway.

Elster88 Mar 01 2006 07:47 AM

How do you pronounce Taipei? When playing Little League World Series for Nintendo, we always went with "tie-PAY".

metirish Mar 01 2006 07:47 AM

I'll watch no doubt, Spring Training games get me excited this time fo year,I wonder if people in Holland care.

Frayed Knot Mar 01 2006 07:49 AM

we always went with "tie-PAY". Yup!

metirish Mar 01 2006 12:54 PM

Great, now it's Pedro's turn. ] THE ASSOCIATED PRESS March 1, 2006, 2:44 PM EST PHOENIX -- Mets closer Billy Wagner and Cleveland pitcher C.C. Sabathia withdrew Wednesday from the U.S. roster for the World Baseball Classic and were replaced by Washington right-hander Gary Majewski and Yankees left-hander Al Leiter. Leiter becomes the fourth player from the Yankees on the 30-man roster, joining shortstop Derek Jeter, third baseman Alex Rodriguez and center fielder Johnny Damon. Two other Nationals are on the team: closer Chad Cordero and catcher Brian Schneider. The roster for the first round, initially announced Feb. 14, has to be finalized by noon EST Wednesday. "Although I would love to pitch in the inaugural World Baseball Classic and am proud to represent my country, I will not be ready to pitch in a competitive-game environment when play begins on March 7," Sabathia said in a statement released by the Indians.

Frayed Knot Mar 01 2006 02:17 PM

Wagner also playing the "not ready" card. Also talked about wanting to get more familiar with his new team. If these players continue to defect like this it's not going to be a good sign for the WBC as a whole. The players - as a whole - signed off on this but now too many individuals aren't so enthusiastic and this pulling out just gives credence to the nay-sayers who claim it's too much too soon even as MLB tries to promote it as something everyone's on board with.

Frayed Knot Mar 02 2006 08:28 AM

Pedro now apparently out for all rounds in addition to the previously announced 1st-round no-show. I suppose he'll remain on their roster so could conceivably decide that he's OK and parachute in in the DR reaches a final, but he's almost certain to skip the whole thing. Big bad Vlad also out due to recent deaths in the family. BA presents the WBC's [url=http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/060302wbccuba3b.html]five best players you've never heard of[/url]

Benjamin Grimm Mar 02 2006 08:31 AM

I'm starting to relish the idea of this being a major flop.

Rotblatt Mar 02 2006 08:42 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: Pedro now apparently out for all rounds in addition to the previously announced 1st-round no-show. I suppose he'll remain on their roster so could conceivably decide that he's OK and parachute in in the DR reaches a final, but he's almost certain to skip the whole thing. Big bad Vlad also out due to recent deaths in the family. BA presents the WBC's [url=http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/060302wbccuba3b.html]five best players you've never heard of[/url] Cool. Note that there are two Japanese players in that list of five. I'm totally rooting for them.

metirish Mar 02 2006 10:16 AM

Manny Acta on Pedro. ] "It's a shame, but Pedro won't pitch in the Classic," Dominican manager and Mets third-base coach Manny Acta told ESPNdeportes. "I met with Pedro to talk about this; he did everything he could, and he was ready to join the team later in the competition, but his injury delayed his preparations."

Elster88 Mar 02 2006 10:27 AM

]Pedro now apparently out for all rounds in addition to the previously announced 1st-round no-show. I suppose he'll remain on their roster so could conceivably decide that he's OK and parachute in in the DR reaches a final, but he's almost certain to skip the whole thing. From what I'm hearing, they weren't leaving this option open to players. They wanted guys who were healthy out of the gate on the roster. I could have that all mixed up.

Frayed Knot Mar 02 2006 11:22 AM

No you're right, I had it wrong. Turns out there's even a rule for this WBC where a player who participates in an exhibition game with his reg team CAN'T then go join his national WBC team. Not that Pedro has been in an official ex-game yet (nor have the Mets even had one) but the speculation I heard (and then repeated) that he had the option of doing one then the other isn't true. Bottom line: he's out of WBC entirely.

metirish Mar 02 2006 11:34 AM

FK, I'm watching the Phillies play the yanks on YES and Benie Williams is playing, Kay just said Bernie will be leaving the team after the game to join up with the PR WBC Team.

Frayed Knot Mar 02 2006 11:37 AM

OK, maybe that rule applies to exhib-games after a particular date. ARod, Jeter & Damon are playing too.

metirish Mar 02 2006 11:39 AM

Of course that must be it, I'm just happy Pedro and Wagner are out.

Frayed Knot Mar 02 2006 11:44 AM

Except that the reason Pedro isn't pitching is that he's way behind in where he should be at this point. That's a bad thing, not a good. I'd rather he be healthy and pitching for the DR.

ABG Mar 02 2006 12:41 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Except that the reason Pedro isn't pitching is that he's way behind in where he should be at this point. That's a bad thing, not a good. I'd rather he be healthy and pitching for the DR. Well, yeah, but everything's relative. I wish he was 28 still and hitting 97 on the gun, but that's not what we have.

Frayed Knot Mar 02 2006 01:56 PM

I should have read Rubin's column first instead of repeating things I heard from various radio sources - most of which turned out to be incorrect; "Players on WBC active rosters are not permitted to participate in Grapefruit League games once the tournament begins. So even though the Mets got special permission for Martinez to remain in Port St. Lucie during the tournament and to join the Dominican team only for his games, Martinez would have been barred from spring-training games, potentially setting back his preparation for the season." Only for injury or bereavement replacement can a player be added to the tourney at a later stage.

Spacemans Bong Mar 02 2006 10:12 PM

First Mets jersey sighting amongst the Korean fans. I assume a Koo or Seo jersey.

Frayed Knot Mar 05 2006 12:30 PM

Sign at the stadium in Yankee camp in Tampa: "Thank you for expressing your concerns. We are sorry that certain players will not be present for portions of spring training. There players have elected to participate in the World Baseball Classic ... The New York Yankess [sic] did not vote to support this event. Any comments you have regarding the World Baseball Classic should be directed to the commissioner of Major League Baseball or the Major League Baseball Players Association." Wah fuckin' Wah! I mentioned a while ago that I suspect that George is at least as concerned over a potential loss in his precious ST attendance as he is about the possiblity of injuries. This note says at least as much about how the Yanx get pissed off when MLB doesn't act like a satellite revolving around the Yanquis (something which is the proper order of things from the NYY vantage point) as it does about their spelling skills. The Yanx, btw, did NOT vote against the WBC (as has been widely reported), rather they abstained in the vote - giving themselves the out of claiming they didn't vote against it in case this thing is a success. They did the abstain thing during the last collective bargaining agreement vote also.

Johnny Dickshot Mar 06 2006 05:36 AM

A MFY Spokesmen lying to the Times said that George didn't even sanction the sign above, but those mavericks in the ticket office did.

seawolf17 Mar 06 2006 06:03 AM

They spelled Yankees wrong. Classic.

Rotblatt Mar 06 2006 07:28 AM

="seawolf17"]They spelled Yankees wrong. Classic. hah! Thats hilariss.

Rotblatt Mar 07 2006 11:09 AM

MLB is so fucking cheap, it's not even funny. They can't broadcast the radio for these games for free? I mean, seriously, that's ridiculous. Even better, their scoreboard/Gameday thing is down (and has been all day), meaning there's no way to follow the game live WITHOUT paying for it.

Centerfield Mar 07 2006 11:22 AM

People are saying more people will be pulling for Mexico than team USA despite the fact the matchup takes place on US soil. Maybe some of it has to do with the US putting together a team that is really, really hard to root for. Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, Roger Clemens, Alex Rodriguez, and Chipper Jones. Sheesh. I may have to root for Canada.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 07 2006 11:27 AM

I'm hoping that the winner will come from Latin America. It would mean much more to the fans than it will to us if the US wins. Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Mexico are all kosher for me. Cuba, too, I guess.

Rotblatt Mar 07 2006 11:28 AM

Well, I'm able to listen using my password from last year's MLB radio subscription, so I withdraw my complaint.

Elster88 Mar 07 2006 11:28 AM

I just don't give a crap. I'm surprised people are actually rooting for a team.

Rotblatt Mar 07 2006 11:44 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 07 2006 12:02 PM

Elster88 wrote: I just don't give a crap. I'm surprised people are actually rooting for a team. I can't explain it, but I'm totally into it. Probably because I want to see Team America fall on their asses: ]America... America... America, F*** YEAH! Coming again, to save the mother f***ing day yeah, America, F*** YEAH! Freedom is the only way yeah, Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too, America, F*** YEAH! So lick my butt, and suck on my balls, America, F*** YEAH! What you going to do when we come for you now, it’s the dream that we all share; it’s the hope for tomorrow F*** YEAH! edited for posterity. edited again for posterity.

Nymr83 Mar 07 2006 11:45 AM

I thought the use of the F-word on this board was restricted to IGTs of games the mets lose.

Lundy Mar 07 2006 12:04 PM

I really am looking forward to this tournament. Although I wish there were Mets to root for, I will be pulling for Jeter, Rodriguez, Clemens, and the rest of Team USA.

seawolf17 Mar 07 2006 12:16 PM

I will root for Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez and Roger Clemens on the 38th of Neveruary.

Rotblatt Mar 07 2006 09:28 PM

Italian-America crushes Australia, 10-0. Piazza goes 1-3 with a double and a walk. He didn't allow a SB, either. Of course, only one Autstralian reached base, so . . . Pitching for Italy: Gilli, who went 4.2 IP, with 1 H, 7 K and 0 BB. Sweet line. Anyone know anything about him? #8 hitter, Saccomanno (3B) went 2-4 with a double, a dinger & a walk. DeSantis releived for Gilli and went 2.1 perfect innings, K'ing 2.

Frayed Knot Mar 07 2006 09:34 PM

I suspect that in a fair fight (ie; no distant relatives allowed) Australia would likely beat Italy; they've produced a handful of ballplayers and prospective ones of late. But, unfortunately for the Aussies, their country is even younger than this one and they don't have a big enough population to have sent a significant number of emigrees here.

Rotblatt Mar 08 2006 07:51 AM

I'm psyched to see how Cuba does today (1:00 p.m. EST). Panama doesn't have a lot of major leaguers (Bruce Chen, Einar Diaz, Olmedo Saenz, Carlos Lee, Jose Macias & Ruben Rivera) but enough that it should be a good test for Cuba.

soupcan Mar 08 2006 08:11 AM

From everything I've been reading it seems that Cuba is more than just a sleeper. The team has been practicing together for three months.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2006 11:30 AM

I have to admit, I'm paying more attention to this thing, and liking it more, than I expected to.

Rotblatt Mar 09 2006 03:08 PM

Vladdy (on the bereavement list) is going to join the Dominicans in time for the 3rd game of Round 2. Sick, sick, sick lineup, and their defense will improve as well.

Rotblatt Mar 09 2006 03:23 PM

Alan Schwartz from [url=http://www.baseballamerica.com/chat/chat.php?id=2006030901&rnd=4]BA[/url] did a live chat on the WBC. Here's a little bit about Gourriel--and the Mets, but don't get your hopes up. ] Q: nate from madison,wi asks: what are the chances that Gorriel of cuba defects, that kid can play. could he break latin player signing records? A: Alan Schwarz: Mr. Gourriel is hereby invited to defect at my Manhattan apartment, where I will have an agent contract waiting for him.....Seriously, I left my Cuban Guide to Defection at home, and have no insight into his desire to do that. (Omar Linares, his predecessor as Best Cuban Not to Play in Majors, routinely said he was loyal to Castro and proved it.) Again, while I have no specific knowledge, I would think that players in general might be less anxious to defect now that Castro has one ventricle out the door. And yes, Gourriel would get at least a top first-round contract ($4 million?), especially since he'd be on the open market. I hear the Mets need a second baseman.... I wasn't sure if he'd be drafted or wind up on the open market if he defected. Since it's the latter, I suspect it would come down to Boston or the Mets. Frankly, we need it more, and probably have more to spend then Boston. I should stop dreaming, but jesus does that kid sound exciting. I can't wait to see him on the TV & not just hear about him . . .

MFS62 Mar 09 2006 03:49 PM

This email came to my friend in Canada from the canadian hall of fame today. Thought I'd share. Later ************************************************************************************ Canadian upset of USA amazing but explainable High times in 90's bearing fruit now by Tom Valcke, president & CEO of the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame & Museum St. Marys - Canadians shouldn't be nearly as shocked as our friends south of the 49th parallel over our 8-6 upset of Team USA in the World Baseball Classic. National pride and baseball passion have been increasingly oozing out of both players and fans in each of the four host cities as the inaugural battle of the world's best players is gaining momentum, and the stars and stripes' faithful are quickly learning that the globalization of America's pastime is already well underway. Nobody but manager Ernie Whitt and his troops thought we had a chance to throw maple syrup on their parade. Granted, the absence of Cy Young winning Eric Gagné, premier starter Rich Harden, 33-save man Ryan Dempster and three-time batting title and former MVP Larry Walker does help build the case for the 'David versus Goliath' analogy. But this team has heart, and Stubby Clapp's unrelentless energy and get-dirty approach can be contagious, especially when it comes down to one nine-inning game against anybody. Also, with Walker on the coaching staff, don't think any player is going to have the nerve to come into the dugout not having left everything they had out on the field, the way Walker did throughout his outstanding career. Baseball Canada's front office deserves credit as well, as the integrity and credibility of their management team of Jim Baba, Greg Hamilton and Andre Lachance has given the Ottawa-based operation an unprecedented and deserving level of efficiency and respect. President Ray Carter oversees this very well-run ship that has had its share of rough seas in its evolution but is running on smooth under his leadership. Coupled with this, unquestionably the biggest win in the 40 year history of Canada's national team program, our impressive performances at recent World Cups and the near miss of a medal at the Athens Olympics have spurred many media, fans, and budding national federations to ask what Canada is doing now to reach these new heights. But the secret is only partly about what we're doing now. It is equally significant to understand what was happening in our country a decade or so ago, from the grass roots all the way up to the Major Leagues. The dropout rate for baseball players tends to peak when youngsters are in the neighborhood of being 12 years of age, which coincides with our roster of twenty-somethings currently busting out in Phoenix. Chronologically, Canada hosted (Brandon, Manitoba) and won its first ever World Junior Championship in 1991, taking and keeping the National Junior program to new heights. Also in 1991, Major League Baseball ownership decided to incorporate Canadians in their annual First Year Player draft, and in short order, scouts became so plentiful in Canada that it became impossible for a quality prospect to be overlooked. In 1992, The Toronto Blue Jays brought the first-ever World Series title to Canada, and baseball was played as an official medal sport for the first time in the Barcelona Olympics. The Blue Jays repeated their amazing feat in 1993. The Expos had baseball's best record when the 1994 season was cut short due to the strike. Three national training centres were emerging, the National Baseball Institute in Vancouver, the Academy of Baseball Canada in Montreal, and the Prairie Baseball Academy in Lethbridge, Alberta. When the top of the sport's pyramid does well, it helps the foundation. And it works both ways. When more kids are recruited and retained, it gives the national team program a higher quantity and quality of players in the pool at selection time. While baseball was booming during this period on so many fronts in the early-to-mid 90's, more kids signed up, more parents watched baseball on television, and more coaches committed themselves by researching their responsibilities and attended clinics, all contributing to strengthening the base. Baseball fever was never as hot in the north, and consequently, fewer youth quit baseball. It is now evident that the cream has surely risen to the top. Canada placed 19 players in the Major Leagues last year, and not just roster-fillers, but impact players such as 2004 National League Rookie-of-the-year Jason Bay, rock-solid veteran Corey Koskie, Twins emerging slugger Justin Morneau, and the seemingly ageless masher, Matt Stairs. There have been a total of 221 Canadians to play in the Major Leagues. Our starting line-up versus the USA made a total of $6.6 million dollars in the majors last summer, while the USA starters earned $74 million dollars. Would we have beaten them in a best-of-seven series? Unlikely. But that is the beauty of baseball, and the power of the Maple Leaf when it gets placed on the chests of our best players.

Rotblatt Mar 10 2006 05:34 AM

Well, I got to see a couple Gourriel at bats last night, and color me impressed. He was very patient at the plate and working from behind in the count didn't bother him. In his first at bat, he watched a couple go by, then yanked a slider that looked a little low on the outer half of the plate into deep left field for a ground rule double. From what I could tell through the crappy MLB.tv quality, he has very quick hands. I was impressed he managed to pull that ball . . . They showed his HR from the other day too, and it struck me how level his swing is--he doesn't seem like he's trying to hit home runs. Everything's on a line. He ended up 1-3 with 2 BB and a K in Cuba's route of the Netherlands.

Rotblatt Mar 10 2006 05:45 AM

3/8 In exhibition games, Japan beat Seattle 4-2 on Wednesday. RHP Koji Uehara, who shut down Chinese Tapei for 5 innings in the first round, dominated Seattle, allowing only 1 hit, which was quickly erased on a DP. He struck out 6, walking none. Uehara is maybe their third or fourth best starter. Ogasawara, Kawasaki, Ichiro & Nishioka all had RBI singles. Kawasaki also bunted for a base hit, stole second, then scored on a Nishioka single. Ichiro went 2-4 against his American team. 3/9 A squad of mostly AAA Rangers defeated Japan yesterday, 8-4. Japan ace Daisuke Matsuzaka pitched a solid 4 innings, allowing 1 unearned run while striking out 4. As soon as Matsuzaka left, the bullpen was exposed--Tsuyoshi Wada and Hiroyuki Kobayashi combined to allow 7 runs.

Rotblatt Mar 10 2006 05:50 AM

3/9 Korea lost 7-4 to the split-squad Royals. Korean captain, Jong Beom Lee, went 2-4 with a ribbie and 2 K's and chalked the loss up to time difference and jet lag. He's confident that by the time Round 2 starts, they will be ready. Chan Ho Park got the nod for Korea, and only lasted two innings, giving up 4 hits & 2 runs, K'ing 1. Seo & Kim pitched in relief of Park, but I can't figure out how they performed.

MFS62 Mar 10 2006 06:02 AM

So now, for the USA team, it all comes down to having to beat South Africa. "Oh no! Not the Boer worms!" * Later *= can you name that movie upon which that terrible pun was based?

Willets Point Mar 10 2006 06:23 AM

Flash Gordon. Never saw it but in college some of my friends went around saying "Bring meeeeeee ... the bore worms!"

MFS62 Mar 10 2006 06:35 AM

Bingo! Please report to the front desk and pick up your prize. If they could quote that picture, you must have had interesting friends. Later

Nymr83 Mar 10 2006 08:43 PM

well, the 7 teams that i think most people would have picked to advance have done so along with mexico (who i thought were 50/50 with canada to be the 2nd team out of that pool.) any baseball is good baseball at this point...

KC Mar 12 2006 02:14 PM

If anyone is interested, the USA vs. Japan in on ESPN2. The NYT's in- ability to get the tv scheduling right for this tournament is mind-boggling. They have it listed as being on tonight at 8?

Bret Sabermetric Mar 12 2006 05:04 PM

Nymr83 wrote: any baseball is good baseball at this point... which is why it makes sense to market at the time of year they're putting it at. I think you hardcore fans would watch a deathmatch between the second grader boys and the second grade girls now, you're so hard-up for a baseball game.

Rotblatt Mar 12 2006 05:26 PM

Bret Sabermetric wrote: ="Nymr83"]any baseball is good baseball at this point... which is why it makes sense to market at the time of year they're putting it at. I think you hardcore fans would watch a deathmatch between the second grader boys and the second grade girls now, you're so hard-up for a baseball game. Hey, Bret, watch the games first, THEN judge. Japan-USA was as good a game as I've ever seen. Well, at least games that didn't involve the Mets.

Bret Sabermetric Mar 12 2006 05:40 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 12 2006 06:38 PM

Rotblatt wrote: Hey, Bret, watch the games first, THEN judge. Fair enough. I find it hard to get excited about games where the most important quality for most of you is the avoidance of Mets injuries. (Or the preponderence of Yankee injuries.) I got to wonder if the players are holding something back and, if not, why not. But I love the idea of the games. In a lot of ways, I fantasize that WBC baseball will someday replace MLB. It restores something that's lacking for well over a century--the concept of local pride. The players are from the places on their uniforms (for the most part) and there's a real bond between the players and the places they play for. That's wonderful, and I like to see that. I just wish they could play balls-to-the-wall. This pitch-limit, mercy rule, no injuries stuff retards my interest. Or maybe my interest is just retarded to begin with. OE: fix'd coding OE2: fix'd coding correctly

holychicken Mar 12 2006 05:57 PM

Bret, You have to realize that at least a couple of those concessions (well, at least the pitch count limit) were put in place to get a majority of the MLB owners on board. To be honest, and I guess I am in a minority here, but I definitely am behind the WBC. So far, it has been pretty enjoyable. . . as you have said, the players show more passion than you see a lot of the time and the fact that it is pretty much ALL playoffs gives each game so much meaning. The Japan US game that was just on was really exciting. Sure, there were a few bad calls. . . but it wouldn't be baseball without bad calls. And, if it didn't have bad calls, what would we get worked up over?

Rotblatt Mar 14 2006 08:32 PM

Watanabe looks like the likely starter for Japan tomorrow. Watanabe went 4.2 innings against Korea and allowed only 3 hits, K'ing 1, but he also hit 3 batsmen. Korea looks to counter with Sunny Kim, who got battered but not broken by Japan in 3 innings against Japan, allowing 7 hits and 2 earned runs, striking out 1. This should be a mismatch of starting pitchers in Japan's favor, but we'll see how it plays out. Should be a fun game.

metsmarathon Mar 15 2006 09:21 PM

edit... avi stopped by. post contents moved to be more appropriate thread bitching about the lack of availability of WBC televisings. carry on.

HahnSolo Mar 17 2006 08:48 AM

I'm wondering if this tournament would not have been better suited with fewer teams and maybe a double elimination format (as I see others have suggested). For ex., two pools of six teams rather than four pools of four. Get rid of the dead weight (sorry China, South Africa, and Italy), play double elimination in each pool, then have each pool's champ play a two out of three championship. Then we don't have to worry about earned runs per innings played.

Frayed Knot Mar 17 2006 08:59 AM

Except that I think in large part this tourney was concocted specifically with those lesser teams/countries in mind. THOSE are the places you're trying to pump-up baseball both as a source of talent and a consumer's market. Yeah, China & China aren't going to be challenging their Asian neighbors for supremacy anytime soon, but it gives them something to shoot for. When the US made the Soccer World Cup draw (in the early '90s sometime) and then hosted it 4 years later (thus gaining an automatic bid) no one expected them to place highly either time, but it provided a valuable experience boost AND an attendance/interest boost that paid dividends later on. And now, a ranking that came out just this week in advance of this year's WC has the US squad ranked 5th in the world. There are things they need to fix before trying this again, but I don't think becoming more exclusive is one of them.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 17 2006 09:07 AM

The Italy team was a joke. I wasn't paying enough attention to South Africa or Netherlands to know whether I'd have a similar opinion about them. I was surprised that it was hard to come up with 16 legitimate teams. I wonder if there are more Latin American countries where baseball is growing. Do they play in Nicaragua? Guatemala? Haiti?

Willets Point Mar 17 2006 09:26 AM

I give a lot of credit to South Africa for putting a team of amateurs. They'll probably develop as a team and a fan base for being able to hang with Mexico and Canada. Italy probably hurt themselves by not playing any real Italians. The Netherlands are the strongest baseball nation in Europe and they even won a game against Panama. I was wondering what other nations might compete in a future WBC and looking at other international competitions (the Baseball World Cup & Olympics) the only other countries that come up are Nicaragua and Colombia. I guess Britain and Ireland might be able to send teams too but that's about it for the baseball world for now.

Nymr83 Mar 17 2006 01:56 PM

I think the double-elimination is a must. I wouldn't cut teams out though and i'd even look into adding a "qualifying" tournament the previous november for newcomers plus those who didnt make it out of the 1st round in the previous tournament.

ScarletKnight41 Mar 18 2006 06:17 AM

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2006/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=2373315]Jim Caple's Thoughts On WBC Umpiring[/url] 1) He proposes that every WBC umpiring crew have at least one umpire that speaks the language of the non-English speaking manager; and 2) His imagined, translated exchange between Oh and Davidson is hysterical.

Willets Point Mar 18 2006 01:10 PM

]The question is whether his ejection was due to faulty translation or superb translation. Funny.

Rotblatt Mar 21 2006 11:05 AM

Nifty article about WBC follow-up by [url=http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Amn2TweRXFppZTCfuLzeEbgRvLYF?slug=cnnsi-wbcwinnersandlo&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns]Tom Verducci[/url] from SI.

Centerfield Mar 21 2006 11:38 AM

Akinori Otsuka The former Padres reliever, now with Texas, called San Diego closer Trevor Hoffman on Sunday morning and asked if he could use his signature Hell's Bells song if he had a chance to close the championship game. Hoffman gave his blessing, and Otsuka did him proud with a five-out save. That's really cool. How funny is it that Team Japan uses AC/DC to close out their victory.

Rotblatt Mar 21 2006 12:16 PM

="Centerfield"]That's really cool. How funny is it that Team Japan uses AC/DC to close out their victory. Well, AC/DC IS a little more menacing than [url=http://www.puffyamiyumi.com/]Puffi Ami Yumi[/url].

Edgy DC Mar 21 2006 12:33 PM

They should bring the Pink Lady.

Edgy DC Mar 21 2006 01:54 PM

Interview with Paul Archey, the MLB executive who helped "shape" the WBC. Mets content: apparently the rules were that no more than ten players may be taken from any big-league organization. When more than ten were requested, the team asking for the most MLB players would be asked to throw one request back. He specifically mentions the Mets in this scenario.

Rotblatt Mar 22 2006 08:43 PM

Davenport with a little follow-up on his estimation of world talent from the mailbag at [url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4892]Baseball Prospectus:[/url] ][url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3794]Rolling Some Cubans[/url] You wrote this article a year or so ago and I found it incredibly interesting at the time. As I was watching the Cubans play in the World Baseball Classic tournament I couldn't help but think back to this research and wanted to get your impressions. It's tough to imagine a Double-A team--say a Southern League All Star team--performing this well. Are we seeing a Cuban team that is significantly better than the average play in their league? Or is this performance in the WBC more due to getting hot at the right time and having a small sample size for us to examine? --S.B. There is a big difference between the American minor leagues and the national leagues of other countries. When I say that the talent level of the Cuban league is approximately that of short-season A ball, I am talking only about the average level of play. The standard deviation of the level of play is much tighter in American leagues than in other leagues--because the top players get promoted out. In Cuba, or Korea, or Japan, there is no higher league for promotion, so the players remain there and dominate. I think most of the players--the ones who actually played in the WBC--for Cuba (and Japan, and Korea) would be either in the majors or, at least, on their way up through AA if they had identical skills and ages and had grown up here. Osmani Urrutia is a very good player. However, the only reason he has hit .400 for four (five?) straight years in Cuba is because the average level of play is so low and his home park of Las Tunas has to have a park factor of at least 115. His translated line is sort of between Eric Chavez and Derek Jeter; same overall EqA, with BA and SLG between the two. Imagine one of them playing in Asheville--that's a 114 park in the low minors South Atlantic League. I don't think a .400 season would be at all remote for them. So, yes to one of your speculations; while the average player on a Cuban team may be comparable to the American low minors, the best ones are substantially better, because the best ones in America get promoted. Five years ago, Urrutia was playing in a Sally League equivalent and still is. Without promotion, the SAL All-Star team would feature the players who were there five years ago; just from 1999 (grabbing the 2000 Baseball America Almanac), the Sally league included Juan Pierre, Matt Holliday, Rafael Furcal, Jay Gibbons, Travis Hafner, which would be a more reasonable match for a Cuban All-Star team than a current SAL All-Star team. --Clay Davenport

Frayed Knot Mar 22 2006 08:57 PM

What those who (wrongly) expected the Americans to dominate missed is that, while we probably have the best overall depth, plucking an A-S team from any of the other countries who have pro leagues (Japan, Korea, Cuba - or significant players in MLB: PR, DR, Venz) negates that depth as does the unpredictability of a short series. It'll be interesting to see what happens if/when Cuban players are finally freed. There'll certainly be some quality players from there, but I'm not sure if anyone has a handle on what kind of [u:693a681ab5]quantity[/u:693a681ab5] they have who can play at an ML level.

duan Mar 23 2006 05:41 AM

I think the wbc should be played in a two week window at the now "all-star" break. The all star game's a joke and is basically an irritant in the season. The WBC has the potential to be *really* good. You need the weaker teams in because that's how they get better - if you make it a closed club you simply take the fun out of it. it'd be brilliant mid season - you only have to do it every two/four years too. That makes it a real treat.

Edgy DC Mar 23 2006 06:44 AM

Where does the Football Wrold Cup fall relative to most European leagues' seasons, Duan? Is the "integrity of the schedule" (keeping the season the same amount of games every year) important to them?

duan Mar 23 2006 08:08 AM

The World Cup happens every four years. The european championships happen every four years (the alternate even years to the WC) These both happen in the summer after the club season is over and take about a month. They're "Bigger then club football" (although there's ongoing complications with that as obviously clubs pay the players day to day salaries - though they do get bonuses for being part of national squads, generally worked out on a collective basis). The club season runs from August to May, culminating at a European level with the Champions League final and domestically with either the "last day of the season" in leagues or the "FA" Cup Final. Don't forget the size of the average top league is 20 teams (some are 18) which means 38 games and then the very top clubs (champions of the previous season plus up to 3 more depending on strength of the league) participate in the European Cup.

Elster88 Mar 23 2006 08:13 AM

Not that it bears on the conversation, but aren't the teams that compete in the European Championships the same club teams as usual? It'd be like the Mets, Braves, etc. playing against Bobby V's team, etc. right?

Edgy DC Mar 23 2006 08:37 AM

No, the Euorpean Cup is for national teams from the European nations. (Will Israel now be eligible?) There's also the European Team Cup that I think invites the top teams (the teams that have won championships) from each premiere league. My question is because most teams are done with their schedule, they don't have to worry as much about their players injuring themselves in the national cause. A mid-season WBC would be fretful for a team tied for first sending their ace pticher off to pitch for somebody else for a few weeks.

Elster88 Mar 23 2006 08:41 AM

Is the Team Cup a yearly event?

Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2006 08:50 AM

I also can't see stopping the regular season for two weeks in July. Eliminating the All Star Game would be no significant loss, and there may very well be better things to do during that three-day break. But expanding the break to 14 days would be a serious drag. One of the nice things about the WBC is it injected some meaning into March games. July doesn't need that kind of help.

Willets Point Mar 23 2006 09:20 AM

That's another advantage of my November WBC proposal that Frayed Knot poo-pooed on the assumption that diva ballplayers would not want to play a longer "season" once each four years: If a player is injured in the WBC he has the maximum offseason time to recover before the next MLB season.

Frayed Knot Mar 23 2006 10:02 AM

I'm very much against a mid-season WBC for all the season interrupting reasons. I'm not all that worried about injuries cropping up. There were a total of 39 games played in this thing which is less than what's played in a regular MLB sked over 3 days. Throw in that only about 1/3 of the total rosters were MLB players and the injury possibility adds up to the same as about a day or two in reg season ball. Steinbrenner's whining aside, it's just not all that big a risk.

Edgy DC Mar 23 2006 10:07 AM

No, but it's a much bigger risk than March and much much bigger risk than November. Most importantly, considering teams bend over backwards to come up with reasons to keep the Pedros of the world out of a single inning in the All-Star Game, they'll certainly be balky when it comes to a July WBC.

duan Mar 23 2006 11:56 AM

Sorry I wasn't very clear earlier on. The European Championships are held every FOUR years and are for NATIONAL TEAMS - it is like the World Cup except just for Europe (and with 16 teams rather then 32) The European Cup (more commonly known now as the Champions League) is for club teams and it is held every season. It is rather complicated who qualifies for it. EVERY champion of a national league does, but as leagues get stronger they get additional places. ie: in Ireland First gets in, in Scotland First and Second, in England First, Second, Third & Fourth. - ( who get's what is decided by what's called the 'CoEfficient' which is a mathmatical representation of how well a country's teams have done in these competitions over a 5 year period.) There's also a seeding process at certain points. The reason i was suggesting a 'midseason' classic is that the big issue with playing this at the start of the year is pitchers not having had to time to 'get their arms ready'. That wouldn't be the case with a midseason classic. The issue with November is that it's SO far after the regular season that it's hard to think it makes sense for people who finish playing on Sep 30 to start again on Nov 1st. Baseball's prolonged climax means that but for the 8 teams involved there'd be a crazy gap. [side note] Israel & Israeli teams have been participating in UEFA - european football's governing body - competitions for decades.

Willets Point Mar 23 2006 02:08 PM

This is totally stupid and unrealistic, but I wasted time thinking on it so now I share my labors with you. The World Baseball Champions Cup (based on 2005 season) Includes champions of: Italy's Serie A1 - Foritudo BC Bologna Japan's Nippon Profession Baseball (NPB) - Chibba Lotte Marines Korea's Korea Baseball Organization (KBO) - Daegu Samsung Lions Mexico's Mexican League - Angelopolis Tigres Netherlands' Dutch Major League - Rotterdam DOOR Neptunes United States/Canada Major League Baseball (MLB) - Chicago White Sox MLB and NPB as the top leagues in the world get a second team based on best regular season record: NPB - Fukoka SoftBank Hawks MLB - St. Louis Cardinals 1st Round: 1. Rotterdam v. Bologna 2. Angelopolis v. Daegu Samsung 2nd Round: 3. Fukuoka SoftBank v. Rotterdam/Bologna 4. St. Louis v. Angelopolis/DaeguSamsung Semi-Finals 5. Chicago v. Winner of #3 6. Chibba Lotte v.Winner of #4 Finals 7. Winners of Semi-Finals We now return you to less delusional posts.

Nymr83 Mar 23 2006 02:19 PM

The problem is that while some of these countries can field a competitive national TEAM only the U.S. and Japan have individual professional teams on the same high level.

Willets Point Mar 29 2006 11:45 AM

From the Onion: ] Injury-Free U.S. Team Deems World Baseball Classic 'A Complete Success' March 23, 2006 | Onion Sports ANAHEIM, CA—Players on Team USA, along with MLB owners and managers, rejoiced Thursday night following their final game of the World Baseball Classic, a 2-1 loss to Mexico, as the Americans came out of the tournament safe, sound, and in one piece. "There is an amazing sense of accomplishment among these healthy, injury-free players. Wearing this uniform, and not getting hurt while inside of it, will be something these players are going to remember for the rest of the regular season," said Team USA manager Buck Martinez while helping each player navigate an awkward step up into the clubhouse. "We didn't emerge victorious, but we did emerge completely unscathed. I say we are the real winners here." Following their elimination from harm's way, Martinez joined his 30 healthy players in a cautious locker-room celebration, during which they gingerly spritzed shatterproof plastic bottles of champagne on each other. and ] Ichiro: 'The Best Part About Playing For My Country Was Not Playing For The Seattle Mariners' March 23, 2006 | Onion Sports SAN DIEGO—In an interview following Japan's 10-6 victory against Cuba in the World Baseball Classic championship game Monday, Ichiro Suzuki called the tournament a "great opportunity to represent anything besides the Seattle Mariners." "Playing alongside my countrymen on the world stage was nice, but the highlight of the event for me was not having to watch helplessly from the on-deck circle as [Seattle outfielder] Willie Bloomquist pops out for the fourth time in one game," said Ichiro, who has been contemplating a return to his non-Mariner roots since late 2003. "Honestly, I would have played for the Netherlands team if it meant 17 days away from the Mariners spring-training camp." Although he said that the legendary Sadaharu Oh did a fine job coaching Team Japan, Ichiro added that "next to Mike Hargrove, any idiot in a baseball cap would seem like a decent manager."

Rotblatt Mar 29 2006 12:33 PM

Hah! Both hilarious.