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Bin Laden Dead

metirish May 01 2011 08:52 PM

Edgy alerts the world through the power of his FB page that the President is making a huge announcement at 11pm....CNN says it's Bin Laden.

Rockin' Doc May 01 2011 09:02 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Big news.

metsmarathon May 01 2011 09:03 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

yay!

metirish May 01 2011 09:09 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

batten down the hatches in Pakistan...killed at a mansion outside Islamabad with other family members...

Edgy DC May 01 2011 09:15 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Which intrigues the hell out of me. Not in a hole under the mountains at all, but in a wealthy suburb of the seat of our alleged ally.

Edgy DC May 01 2011 09:18 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Buncha peeps posting Obama got Osama. Clearly his numbers will fly, my political friends, but can we at least initially take a moment to credit the 10-year effort and gruesome sacrifice of the men and women pounding the sand?

metirish May 01 2011 09:20 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Which intrigues the hell out of me. Not in a hole under the mountains at all, but in a wealthy suburb of the seat of our alleged ally. a bad relationship just got worse....a human operation that killed him apparently , CIA people....huge crowds singing the Anthem outside the White House....unreal.

Frayed Knot May 01 2011 09:24 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Which intrigues the hell out of me. Not in a hole under the mountains at all, but in a wealthy suburb of the seat of our alleged ally. Conventional wisdom of his whereabouts has been tilting for some time now from the mountain region towards a safe-house somewhere in Pakistan.

metirish May 01 2011 09:25 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

CNN source over there saying that a Pakistani intel guy confirms death and being very hesitant to say anymore...can't be seen to have been helping the US but at the same time wanting the US to know that they were in on it ....they are probably fucked either way....last thing they wanted was him found on their soil.

Nymr83 May 01 2011 09:28 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

a nice big fuck you to anyone who believed they werent hiding out in pakistan, our "ally"

Nymr83 May 01 2011 09:33 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

conflicting reports of a missile strike and a team on the ground. maybe they called in the plane/drone? wheres Obama already? i want to go to bed...

Nymr83 May 01 2011 09:35 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

there he is!

Willets Point May 01 2011 09:37 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Pakistan is not a nation, more like five or six regional/ethnic groups loosely held together by the military. Even if the government are the USA's best friends they still have little control over most of what goes on within the boundaries of Pakistan

Nymr83 May 01 2011 09:39 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

i hate when people look like they are reading off a teleprompter. can't you just give us the jist of it? Obama says it was a firefight on the ground not a missile strike as was reported.

metirish May 01 2011 09:41 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2011 06:11 AM

Nymr83 wrote: i hate when people look like they are reading off a teleprompter. can't you just give us the jist of it? you could be reading from a prompter everytime you talk about Obama :)

Willets Point May 01 2011 09:43 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Nymr83 wrote: i hate when people look like they are reading off a teleprompter. can't you just give us the jist of it? Yeah right, and risk a verbal slip-up that you and your right wing buddies will parse as Obama's secret message to his Islamist master.

Nymr83 May 01 2011 09:51 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

read off notes on the podium then, i'm not belittling him for it, i'm just saying i personally find it annoying when a speaker has that staring-straight-ahead look.

Frayed Knot May 01 2011 09:51 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I wonder if we'll ever find out the identity of the specific soldier (if indeed they even know) who's responsible for the bullet(s) that killed him. Probably not as the military tends to like to keep that kind of stuff under wraps, but somewhere there may be a member of the military who knows he happened to be the guy in the right place and time.

Willets Point May 01 2011 09:53 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Coincidentally, 8 years ago today...

Nymr83 May 01 2011 09:54 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

If this happened a week ago, why didn't Al Qaeda try to spin the story in the interim by breaking the story themselves? I wonder if we'll ever find out the identity of the specific soldier (if indeed they even know) who's responsible for the bullet(s) that killed him. Probably not as the military tends to like to keep that kind of stuff under wraps, but somewhere there may be a member of the military who knows he happened to be the guy in the right place and time. Theres a cartoonist in Denmark who sleeps with a gun under his pillow because he made unflattering sketches of Mohammed. Revealing that soldier's name should be considered an act of a treason.

Frayed Knot May 01 2011 10:00 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Nymr83 wrote: If this happened a week ago, why didn't Al Qaeda try to spin the story in the interim by breaking the story themselves? I wonder if we'll ever find out the identity of the specific soldier (if indeed they even know) who's responsible for the bullet(s) that killed him. Probably not as the military tends to like to keep that kind of stuff under wraps, but somewhere there may be a member of the military who knows he happened to be the guy in the right place and time. Theres a cartoonist in Denmark who sleeps with a gun under his pillow because he made unflattering sketches of Mohammed. Revealing that soldier's name should be considered an act of a treason. Yeah, which is why the military tries to keep it under wraps. But I just wonder if there's a specific guy who knows it was him and if the public - or even his family - will even know that for a fact even at some future date. Be nice if his family would eventually know.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 01 2011 10:04 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Alright, it was me.

Edgy DC May 01 2011 10:06 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

His statement is that it should be celebrated by all who believe in peace and human dignity. That's not where I'm at.

Willets Point May 01 2011 10:06 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

See what happens when they repeal DADT.

Nymr83 May 01 2011 10:07 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Willets Point wrote: See what happens when they repeal DADT. It would be massively funny if the triggerman came out and claimed to be gay

Edgy DC May 01 2011 10:08 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Willets Point wrote: See what happens when they repeal DADT. Keep feeding Willets. He has the hot hand.

Willets Point May 01 2011 10:15 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Nymr83 wrote: Willets Point wrote: See what happens when they repeal DADT. It would be massively funny if the triggerman came out and claimed to be gay Wouldn't that be redundant.

metsguyinmichigan May 01 2011 10:15 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Clearly the world is better off with this punk dispatched. But I don't get the college kids celebrating in the streets in front of the White House like it's New Year's Eve in Times Square. Seems kinda odd.

Frayed Knot May 01 2011 10:17 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Clearly the world is better off with this punk dispatched. But I don't get the college kids celebrating in the streets in front of the White House like it's New Year's Eve in Times Square. Seems kinda odd. It's an excuse to go out and run around. It's not like College age kids need a big reason for one of those.

Edgy DC May 01 2011 10:27 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

As valadius will remind you, GWU hearts Obama in a big way. They were around 10 when this guy struck America. This is the narrative of their lives.

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2011 05:19 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Is Donald Trump gonna demand to see the death certificate? [youtube:xpi9b0sk]rHJoj9IqeKg[/youtube:xpi9b0sk]

metsmarathon May 02 2011 07:12 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

obama never would've gotten osama if bush hadn't rigged those explosives.

metirish May 02 2011 07:15 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Me to very sleepy wife just after 13:30 am..... " they got Obama , killed him earlier today".. "huh?" " yeah they killed him in Pakistan , the president just gave a speech on TV" "You mean Osama right?" "right" meanwhile if you believe this the President was very involved...which I guess anyone who is in office would be right? http://www.slate.com/id/2292673/

soupcan May 02 2011 07:26 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: His statement is that it should be celebrated by all who believe in peace and human dignity. That's not where I'm at. This. metsguyinmichigan wrote: I don't get the college kids celebrating in the streets in front of the White House like it's New Year's Eve in Times Square. Seems kinda odd. And that. Personally, the whole 'U.S.A! U.S.A!' thing strikes me as being, oh, I don't know...misplaced?

Ashie62 May 02 2011 07:32 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

An historic day no doubt..Heartfelt thanks to all in uniform for protecting our freedom.

RealityChuck May 02 2011 07:35 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC May 02 2011 07:40 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I guess with the attack on the Qadaffi compound, the president was going for a twofer?

metsmarathon May 02 2011 07:40 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

yeah. i mean, it seems a little cliche anymore for the chanting of USA! USA! USA! but i guess it's out collective go-to. i don't know what would readily replace it. i nearly had an emotional response to the spontaneous singing of our national anthem at the white house. though it was much more of a group-shout. those soccer hooligans are way better at group song. i would've loved if the crowds burst out with god bless america. i'm just glad the yankees weren't on tv. they'd've dragged ronan tynan out from his bed underneath the bleachers to sing an hours-long rendition of GBA.

metsmarathon May 02 2011 07:40 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

RealityChuck wrote: that's fucking brilliant. i mean, i'm no obama guy, but that's just fucking brilliant.

themetfairy May 02 2011 07:43 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

RealityChuck wrote: i'm just glad the yankees weren't on tv. they'd've dragged ronan tynan out from his bed underneath the bleachers to sing an hours-long rendition of GBA. Well played.

metirish May 02 2011 07:45 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

This is just brilliant Man unknowingly liveblogs Bin Laden operation AP foreign, Monday May 2 2011 DIAA HADID Associated Press= CAIRO (AP) — A computer programmer, startled by a helicopter clattering above his quiet Pakistani town in the early hours of the morning Monday, did what any social-media addict would do: he began sending messages to the social networking site Twitter. With his tweets, 33-year-old Sohaib Athar, who moved to the sleepy town of Abbottabad to escape the big city, became in his own words "the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it." Soon the sole helicopter multiplied into several and gunfire and explosions rocked the air above the town, and Athar's tweets quickly garnered 14,000 followers as he apparently became the first in the world to describe the U.S. operation to kill one of the world's most wanted militants. His first tweet was innocuous: "Helicopter hovering above Abbottabad at 1AM (is a rare event)." The noise alarmed Athar, who had moved to the upscale area of Abbottabad to get away from city life after his wife and child were badly injured in a car accident in the sprawling city of Lahore, according to his blog in July. Nestled in the mountains around 60 miles (95 kilometers) northeast of the capital, Abbottabad is a quiet, leafy town featuring a military academy, the barracks for three army regiments and even its own golf course. As the operation to kill Osama Bin Laden unfolded, Athar "liveblogged" what he was hearing in real time, describing windows rattling as bombs exploded. He questioned whose helicopters might be flying overhead. "The few people online at this time of the night are saying one of the copters was not Pakistani," he tweeted. Athar then said one of the aircraft appeared to have been shot down. Two more helicopters rushed in, he reported. Throughout the battle, he related the rumors swirling through town: it was a training accident. Somebody was killed. The aircraft might be a drone. The army was conducting door-to-door searches in the surrounding area. The sound of an airplane could be heard overhead. Athar did not respond to media requests for comment — he explained in another tweet that a filter he set up to stop his e-mail box from flooding could be culling out requests for interviews. Soon, however, the rumbling of international events far beyond the confines of this quiet upscale suburb began to dawn on Athar, and he realized what he might be witnessing. "I think the helicopter crash in Abbottabad, Pakistan and the President Obama breaking news address are connected," he tweeted. Eight hours and about 35 tweets later, the confirmation came: "Osama Bin Laden killed in Abbottabad, Pakistan," Athar reported. "There goes the neighborhood." ---------

soupcan May 02 2011 07:52 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

metsmarathon wrote: yeah. i mean, it seems a little cliche anymore for the chanting of USA! USA! USA! but i guess it's out collective go-to. i don't know what would readily replace it. How about nothing?

MFS62 May 02 2011 07:53 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I'm proud of our troops. Later

Ashie62 May 02 2011 08:00 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 02 2011 08:01 AM

Ashie asks that you take four minutes to watch this and reflect [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZNNV4d_rA

metirish May 02 2011 08:01 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

You just don't fuck with the Navy Seals US Forces Told to Kill, Not Capture, Bin Laden National security official: 'This was a kill mission.' By Josh Voorhees | Posted Monday, May. 2, 2011, at 9:49 AM EDT The U.S. special forces team that raided Osama Bin Laden’s secret Pakistani compound Sunday was under orders to kill the al-Qaida leader, not capture him, a national security official told Reuters Monday. Reuters: '"This was a kill operation,' the official said, making it clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan." Still, U.S. officials have told reporters that, in the end, Bin Laden had a choice to surrender but refused. The Washington Post: Osama bin Laden had a choice … He could have surrendered. He refused, and the Navy Seals did what they were trained to do. The first head shot surely ended it, but they gave him a “double tap” … to make sure. Photo by Bay Ismoyo/AFP/Getty Images.

metirish May 02 2011 08:06 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Ashie62 wrote: Ashie asks that you take four minutes to watch this and reflect [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZNNV4d_rA Roger Daltrey is still a terrible singer?

Edgy DC May 02 2011 08:08 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

You just don't fuck with the Navy Seals US Forces Told to Kill, Not Capture, Bin Laden National security official: 'This was a kill mission.' By Josh Voorhees | Posted Monday, May. 2, 2011, at 9:49 AM EDT The U.S. special forces team that raided Osama Bin Laden’s secret Pakistani compound Sunday was under orders to kill the al-Qaida leader, not capture him, a national security official told Reuters Monday. Reuters: '"This was a kill operation,' the official said, making it clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan." Still, U.S. officials have told reporters that, in the end, Bin Laden had a choice to surrender but refused. The Washington Post: Osama bin Laden had a choice … He could have surrendered. He refused, and the Navy Seals did what they were trained to do. The first head shot surely ended it, but they gave him a “double tap” … to make sure. Photo by Bay Ismoyo/AFP/Getty Images. Seems like conflicting reports. This is the problem with the drone war. It's become so politically untenable for the president to bring these guys to justice, that it's much easier to order executions, turning the president into judge and jury.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 08:13 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

metirish wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Ashie asks that you take four minutes to watch this and reflect [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZNNV4d_rA Roger Daltrey is still a terrible singer? I was referring to the pain of the deceased first responders families in attendance.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 02 2011 08:23 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Daltrey did OK given the fact that he was 82 years old at the time of that performance. I don't wanna be a douchebag but I hate everything that's come of Bin Laden including the supposedly "good" stuff like cops and firefighters getting into concerts for free because it was all a part of surrendering anything and everything in the name of a tragedy for the last 10 years. I hate even being reminded of 9/11.

Edgy DC May 02 2011 08:28 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Sort of what I mean in my post above. Among the things we've surrendered is our commitment to due process. I watched In the Name of the Father last week. As the Brits, in the face of their war against Irish terrorists, pass an emergency law allowing them to hold a guy for a week without charging him, it's responded to as a travesty. That's almost quaint, now that we in America can hold terrorism suspects prettty much forever without charging or trying them.

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2011 08:32 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Buried at sea, according to CNN.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 02 2011 08:40 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I don't feel much better, really. And I sure as hell don't feel safer. Also, I don't tend to high-five people after executions, even justified ones. It's not really a matter of principle; it just feels a little funny, you know? (It feels even odder considering all of the civil-liberties tradeoffs and various body-count-jacking crusades, as JCL and Edgy suggested.) One thing I do know: after being disassembled on the weekend news shows and preempted just as his show reached its denouement, Donald Trump has probably had better weekends.

metirish May 02 2011 08:43 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Sort of what I mean in my post above. Among the things we've surrendered is our commitment to due process. I watched In the Name of the Father last week. As the Brits, in the face of their war against Irish terrorists, pass an emergency law allowing them to hold a guy for a week without charging him, it's responded to as a travesty. That's almost quaint, now that we in America can hold terrorism suspects prettty much forever without charging or trying them. Irish terrorists???? , nothing quaint about how successive British governments treated people they looked at as "Irish terrorists" , surprised such a statement would come form you.

Edgy DC May 02 2011 08:44 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Is there a precedent for us controlling and disposing of the remains of an enemy leader? Won't it feed the martyrdom movement for his remains to be disposed of this way?

soupcan May 02 2011 08:45 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Sort of what I mean in my post above. Among the things we've surrendered is our commitment to due process. Right. Whatever happened to 'changing our way of life is tantamount to letting the terrorists win'? Granted there are some things that just become logical and necessary when faced with the realities of spontaneous violent attacks, but fucking with the constitution and becoming a more jingoistic (if that were even possible) and racist nation is exactly the goal of terrorsism. It's not that we live that they despise, it's how we live.

Edgy DC May 02 2011 08:52 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

metirish wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Sort of what I mean in my post above. Among the things we've surrendered is our commitment to due process. I watched In the Name of the Father last week. As the Brits, in the face of their war against Irish terrorists, pass an emergency law allowing them to hold a guy for a week without charging him, it's responded to as a travesty. That's almost quaint, now that we in America can hold terrorism suspects prettty much forever without charging or trying them. Irish terrorists???? , nothing quaint about how successive British governments treated people they looked at as "Irish terrorists" , surprised such a statement would come form you. There were (and still are, to a thankfully far lesser degree) Irish terrorists --- Republicans and Loyalists --- no doubt about it. It didn't justify how the UK suspended the civil rights of their alleged subjects, naturally, and I certainly don't mean to suggest otherwise. It was indeed a travesty when the Brits dialed back the rights of the accused, and the Guilford Four/Birmingham Six case was a natural outcome of living under such a system. It's just a travesty now to a lesser degree than what the USA has done in the face of terrorism, suspending those rights entirely. Unlike the Brits, we have a Constitution, but we're now afraid to live under it. And to be accused of being a terriorist by the US is to disappear into a black hole where no justice can enter. Due process is simply one of the greatest things about living in a democracy. Or maybe it was. I'm almost ready to build a monument to it.

metsmarathon May 02 2011 08:58 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

yeah. i don't know if i'm happy, necessarily, and i certainly didn't feel the need to engage in any revelry. it's just that i'd assumed there was a 50% chance that he was already dead already, and about a 99% chance that he was largely irrelevant anymore. i guess i'd feel differently if i were of the 9-11 generation, y'know, where they're going to high school or middle school and all of a sudden the baddest motherfucking bogeyman steps out and whomps around, rocks the very foundations of your world, and scares the living shit out of you and your family and your nation. and all of a sudden, ten years later, your young and exuberant and looking for something meaningful to party about, and then comes news that the bogeyman is dead. i guess i can see hte revelry in that regard. but i wonder how much of it is revelry of opportunity... who am i to judge, though, i suppose. apparently a handful of facebookers are confused and seem to think that the kill was last week. must be the "monday" thing. pesky time zones. why can't the whole world run on Eastern? if it's sunday here, it should be sunday there too. amiright? i'd been wondering what angle rush and hannity and their ilk would take on this. and i think the burial at sea angle is going to be their go-to. hell. if they don't believe that obama's birth certificate is real, how the hell are they going to trust that whatever pictures and video and miscellaneous documentation isn't faked? i mean, they would probably call the body a fake if they were present at the autopsy, but this just gives them an actual foothold for their delusions and intellectual dishonesty.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 08:59 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Due process for Bin Laden?

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2011 08:59 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Is there a precedent for us controlling and disposing of the remains of an enemy leader? Won't it feed the martyrdom movement for his remains to be disposed of this way? I think they figured it's better to have him buried at sea than to have a grave somewhere that could become a focal point of protests, pilgrimages, visits from Harry Houdini fans, or whatever.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 09:02 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Frankly, I feel satisfied that justice has been served.

Edgy DC May 02 2011 09:03 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Ashie62 wrote: Due process for Bin Laden? Due process for everybody. For our own sake. I think they figured it's better to have him buried at sea than to have a grave somewhere that could become a focal point of protests, pilgrimages, visits from Harry Houdini fans, or whatever. If we're truly not at war with Islam, I would offer his remains to his next of kin.

Ceetar May 02 2011 09:08 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: If we're truly not at war with Islam, I would offer his remains to his next of kin. In a "We respect your religion, but not your actions" kind of way, that makes sense.

metirish May 02 2011 09:11 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Due process for Bin Laden? Due process for everybody. For our own sake. I think they figured it's better to have him buried at sea than to have a grave somewhere that could become a focal point of protests, pilgrimages, visits from Harry Houdini fans, or whatever. If we're truly not at war with Islam, I would offer his remains to his next of kin. I like the sentiment but........do you want this guys body paraded around whatever city held high above the masses with american fags burning and him being hailed a martyr.

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2011 09:17 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Yeah. I think we're all better off with there not being a "Tomb of bin Laden" If they buried him at sea according to Muslim rites, then I think they took the high road. If Donald Trump was president, he would have fed bin Laden's body to pigs.

Edgy DC May 02 2011 09:20 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Well, most of his family has disowned his campaign, but he'll be hailed as a martyr anyhow. My thinking is that we discredit that movement by giving them as little pamphet material as possible.

metirish May 02 2011 10:01 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Some questions..... #7 is most interesting. http://www.slate.com/id/2292705/ 7. Who knew? The U.S. says the area around the compound has "lots of retired military." The Washington Post reports that it's "the headquarters of a brigade of the Pakistan army's 2nd Division." Despite this, the U.S. adds that "the compound was built in 2005," apparently "for the purpose of harboring" Bin Laden. How could he have arranged the construction of such a facility, and then moved into it with his family, without anyone in the local Pakistani military network knowing about it?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 02 2011 10:12 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Pakistan's intelligence services have long been "credited" with: 1) Being the most active sponsor of escaped Taliban leaders following the initial alliance/US attacks in Afghanistan in 2001. 2) Supporting and-- in some cases-- actively aiding Taliban and Al Qaeda reorganization efforts in Pakistan and border regions of Afghanistan, by way of both informational and material resources. 3) Assisting in the movement of OBL and supporting his comfortable exile, along with that of other Al Qaeda operational higher-ups. It's the reason why the "alliance" with Musharraf was a bit of a joke from the beginning-- his CIA/FBI were working directly opposite his supposed efforts.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 10:14 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Pakistan's intelligence services have long been "credited" with: 1) Being the most active sponsor of escaped Taliban leaders following the initial alliance/US attacks in Afghanistan in 2001. 2) Supporting and-- in some cases-- actively aiding Taliban and Al Qaeda reorganization efforts in Pakistan and border regions of Afghanistan, by way of both informational and material resources. 3) Assisting in the movement of OBL and supporting his comfortable exile, along with that of other Al Qaeda operational higher-ups. It's the reason why the "alliance" with Musharraf was a bit of a joke from the beginning-- his CIA/FBI were working directly opposite his supposed efforts. Yes, and Mushareef extorted Bush for 3 Billion dollars.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 10:15 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Well, most of his family has disowned his campaign, but he'll be hailed as a martyr anyhow. My thinking is that we discredit that movement by giving them as little pamphet material as possible. He would be hailed as a martyr if killed, captured, or dead of natural causes.

Edgy DC May 02 2011 10:16 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Which to me is why we give his remains the most conscientious treatment possible. The world is watching. I don't think candidate Obama would have approved of many of the details of this raid had they been carried out under President George Bush.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 10:21 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I'm looking forward to going through Penn Station the next few days..

soupcan May 02 2011 10:24 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Not me at GCT. Whenever they step up the security it makes me that much more uncomfortable. Soldiers in fatigues carrying M-16s is not something I like seeing on a daily basis.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 10:27 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

soupcan wrote: Not me at GCT. Whenever they step up the security it makes me that much more uncomfortable. Soldiers in fatigues carrying M-16s is not something I like seeing on a daily basis. I'm being facetious...I work in lower Manhattan, my brother, the rock..The rifles will be out soon, if not already.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 10:37 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Ashie62 wrote: soupcan wrote: Not me at GCT. Whenever they step up the security it makes me that much more uncomfortable. Soldiers in fatigues carrying M-16s is not something I like seeing on a daily basis. Penn Station, The Path. GCT will suck..I work in Lower Manhattan, my brother at Time-Life...Not fun. The sentiment where I work is Bin Laden's head on a stick would have been preferable.

soupcan May 02 2011 10:45 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I'm down here too. So silly the extra security. Like today, there's going to be retaliation. Because, you know anytime in the past 10 years just wasn't the right time.

Gwreck May 02 2011 10:49 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

soupcan wrote: Soldiers in fatigues carrying M-16s is not something I like seeing on a daily basis. I've always been baffled as to what useful security function these soldiers standing around in the hallways in Grand Central (or Penn) serve.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 02 2011 10:55 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

If someone harms a single commuter-market heirloom-tomato, triple-smoked smelt, or sixpack of mini-sourdough-Ciabatta... we all lose.

metirish May 02 2011 11:11 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Mayor Bloomberg is urging people to " oh shut up about the beefed up security presence and go see a Broadway Show you ungrateful pricks".

Frayed Knot May 02 2011 11:13 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

metsmarathon wrote: RealityChuck wrote: that's fucking brilliant. i mean, i'm no obama guy, but that's just fucking brilliant. The only way it's better is if it's specifically addressed to Trump with a part added about "while you were diddling around with D-list celebrities and taming that chinchilla on your head".

Ashie62 May 02 2011 11:23 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

metirish wrote: Mayor Bloomberg is urging people to " oh shut up about the beefed up security presence and go see a Broadway Show you ungrateful pricks". That made me laugh.

Edgy DC May 02 2011 11:31 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

ESPN, stuck for something to say, turns to erstwhile Cranepoolio Jason Fry.

sharpie May 02 2011 12:02 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

The train stations in Paris and Strasbourg had armed soldiers walking around as well. They are, however, next to Spain where there was a terrorist train bombing.

metirish May 02 2011 12:20 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Live blogging here form a WH briefing.....interesting to hear from Carney and Brennen , 6:57pm on is the briefing. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... death-live

metsguyinmichigan May 02 2011 01:12 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Overheard in the newsroom: Bin Laden's biggest mistake -- downloading the FourSquare app. But he was the mayor of Mysterious Abbottabad Mansion for a couple days, which, you know, counts for something.

soupcan May 02 2011 02:21 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

A friend posted this as his facebook status: ?"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr. Close to how I feel but so far from my being able to articulate.

Benjamin Grimm May 02 2011 02:23 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I respect that, but I find that I can rejoice in the death of an enemy.

soupcan May 02 2011 02:25 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I don't think it was the rejoicing as much as it was the level of rejoicing that bothered me.

Ashie62 May 02 2011 05:38 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I respect that, but I find that I can rejoice in the death of an enemy. That

Rockin' Doc May 02 2011 07:30 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I think that Bin Laden reaped what he sowed and I feel no remorse at his passing, but I find no joy in it either. I am proud of and grateful for the difficult duty our military personnel perform for the benefit of our citizenry.

Nymr83 May 02 2011 07:32 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Definitely rejoicing. Responding to a few things in this thread, some a few pages back: 1. I don't feel that terrorists are entitled to a chance to surrender. They've declared themselves to be at war with the U.S. and are more akin to Pirates than common criminals. While entitled to Due Process if captured , I don't feel an obligation to attempt to capture them when killing them will do. Of more practical consideration: Would you rather have a corpse or a live body to fight with Pakistan for possession of? 2. I think they followed a reasonable course of action with regard to the body. You don't want his grave to become some sort of holy place for terrorists. The Russians hid Hitler's remains for much the same reason. 3. I don't find the soldiers carrying guns in places like the Staten Island Ferry Terminal and Grand Central uncomfortable or anything. I do wonder if there would be better uses for that manpower. 4. Pakistan is a huge fucking mess and our long-standing relationship with them is perplexing and misguided.

Edgy DC May 02 2011 08:19 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Nymr83 wrote: 1. I don't feel that terrorists are entitled to a chance to surrender. They've declared themselves to be at war with the U.S. and are more akin to Pirates than common criminals. You're apparently not alone. The problem is that it makes it this law-and-order thing as easy as arbirarily declaring people terrorists, and therefore with no rights. And that's the power of a king. Nymr83 wrote: While entitled to Due Process if captured , I don't feel an obligation to attempt to capture them when killing them will do. But by declaring an outright right to klll them, due process is already gone. It seems so easy with somebody as obviously as guilty as bin Laden, but we're executing people all over the globe without feeling any need to engage them. And it's not because of national security or fear for the lives of our servicemembers or anything, or even anything so noble as saving money. It's because our executive has no faith in our courts and our courts have no courage to re-assert their role. Executives always over-reach beyond their Consitutional powers in times of crisis. Lincoln did and Roosevelt did. (And Obama and Bush and Clinton before them certainly have.) But I think we do well in pressing the legislature and courts to slap them back.

TransMonk May 02 2011 08:24 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I'm completely underwhelmed by the news. I'm of the opinion that Bin Laden was just one (albeit the most well known and hated) head on an unbeatable Hydra...at least, unbeatable in the way that we choose to fight it. We're still mired in conflicts in three middle-eastern countries (and he wasn't hiding in any of those three) with no quick ends in sight. But hey, anything that gives Bush the slightest of middle fingers can't be all that bad.

G-Fafif May 02 2011 08:50 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

A friend posted this as his facebook status: ?"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr. Close to how I feel but so far from my being able to articulate. Intriguing thought -- but a fake quote.

MFS62 May 02 2011 09:51 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

About the "Due Process" discussion. According to "on the ground" radio news reports of what went on during the raid, he was offered surrender, but chose to resist and fight. Once killed, Islamic law requires burial within 24 hours, and burial at sea is an option. Oh, we still can't find Dick Cheney. Later

Edgy DC May 02 2011 10:08 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Whether he was offered a chance to surrender is disputed by several accounts. Maybe it's true. But few seem troubled by the distinction. (Reuters) - The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters. "This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan. I'm not sure what the Cheney thing is supposed to mean.

MFS62 May 02 2011 10:25 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: I'm not sure what the Cheney thing is supposed to mean. Both supposedly "in a bunker" for years. A lame attempt to lighten up a very serious thread. My bad. Later

Carnac the Metnificent May 03 2011 06:47 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

A: It was right near Morabad and Bordickabad RIP ... WHOOSH Q: How were the troops able to find Abbottabad?

dgwphotography May 03 2011 08:25 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I think Joe McNally had the best, and most human, take on this: http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/2011/05/ ... yesterday/

metsguyinmichigan May 03 2011 10:15 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I don't think there was an intent to take him alive. Considering all that has gone on with the potential KSM trial, do you really think they were going to bring Bin Linden into a court room with even a risk that he could go loose?

Edgy DC May 03 2011 10:54 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

No, I don't think they were going to, but I think they should have.

metirish May 03 2011 07:06 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

a special edition Time magazine on display

metirish May 03 2011 07:12 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

dgwphotography wrote: I think Joe McNally had the best, and most human, take on this: http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/2011/05/ ... yesterday/ thanks for linking that...good stuff.

duan May 04 2011 03:54 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I go back to what Edgy talked about earlier. There has been no greater subversion of Democracy than the unwinding of the right to trial that has been lead by the USA and aided by the UK, ourselves and numerous others that has been couched in vague terms of a 'War on Terror'. Guantanamo Bay, the flights of rendition and all the related stuff have been appalling breaches of every right of humanity that the USA purports to uphold - it is directly equatable with the internment policies of the British Government & the barbarity and hypocrisy that lead to the Birmingham Six, Guildford Four & Maguire Seven being wrongly convicted. However it has taken those to new levels. There is no doubt in my mind that the ordered execution of Bin Laden is a criminal act, in the exact same way as what he perpetrated was a criminal act. I'm not going to boo Barak Obama for it and I will still welcome him to Ireland with a warm handshake but I really feel, that where he could have been different he's allowed himself be indoctrinated into the hawkish nature of secret services and the belief that the "USA" has the right to ignore it's own laws when it feels like it. To try a man like Osama, allowing him legal representation and to burden yourselves with the obligation of proof would have been a much, much braver thing to do. One of the other things to note, is that Osama Bin Laden

Edgy DC May 04 2011 05:51 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

And at that point the Navy Seals burst in on Duan and flew him off to a secret prison in the UAE, but not before he bravely hit submit mid-sentence.

duan May 04 2011 06:13 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: And at that point the Navy Seals burst in on Duan and flew him off to a secret prison in the UAE, but not before he bravely hit submit mid-sentence. Indeed. this be the problem with being too busy in work. One of the other things to note is that this has actually brought Osama Bin Laden back from the death of irrelevancey. What did Osama Bin Laden want, he wanted an end to the governance by 'Western' supported dictators of 'Islamic' states. However, the fact of the matter is in Egypt, Tunisia (and messily) Libya & Syria, the people are doing this - and doing it as Muslim/Christian/Other- not trying to install imams as leaders of caliphates - but yearning for the democracy & freedom from tyranny. Robert Fisk wrote a great piece on it.

duan May 04 2011 06:14 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-was-he-betrayed-of-course-pakistan-knew-bin-ladens-hiding-place-all-along-2278028.html

themetfairy May 04 2011 06:41 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

This article gives voice to my reaction. “Yesterday, Yom Hashoah, Bin Laden was killed. The proper reaction is sobriety, not revelry. This is a time to remember those who died, pray for those who fight, meditate anew on wickedness and redouble our dedication to justice.” - Rabbi Sharon Brous

Edgy DC May 04 2011 06:57 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

duan wrote: Edgy DC wrote: And at that point the Navy Seals burst in on Duan and flew him off to a secret prison in the UAE, but not before he bravely hit submit mid-sentence. Indeed. this be the problem with being too busy in work. One of the other things to note is that this has actually brought Osama Bin Laden back from the death of irrelevancey. What did Osama Bin Laden want, he wanted an end to the governance by 'Western' supported dictators of 'Islamic' states. However, the fact of the matter is in Egypt, Tunisia (and messily) Libya & Syria, the people are doing this - and doing it as Muslim/Christian/Other- not trying to install imams as leaders of caliphates - but yearning for the democracy & freedom from tyranny. Robert Fisk wrote a great piece on it. Great point. And this is what Bush so advocated for in his rhetoric, even as he worked against it in his prosecution of the war.

batmagadanleadoff May 04 2011 08:10 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

metirish wrote: a special edition Time magazine on display X marks the spot. May 20, 2011 issue May 7, 1945 issue April 1, 2003 issue June 19, 2006 issue

soupcan May 04 2011 08:17 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Osama gets the biggest, boldest 'X'. Wonder if the other guys are high-fiving him over that?

seawolf17 May 04 2011 08:29 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Someone else ask who the guy on the bottom is, please, so I don't look like the clueless one.

batmagadanleadoff May 04 2011 08:33 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

duan May 04 2011 08:53 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: . And this is what Bush so advocated for in his rhetoric, even as he worked against it in his prosecution of the war. Well there's the rub, and why I'm fundamentally distrustful of the view of the world espoused by the greater "security service". They've kept a lot of corrupt & malevolent guys in office (and armed to the teeth) on the grounds that they can keep things "in check" or be "worked with".

dgwphotography May 04 2011 09:24 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I guess not everyone feels a middle finger is appropriate or necessary: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011 ... eedfetcher House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi called former president George W. Bush to thank him. "I wanted him to know the appreciation that many of us have in a bipartisan way," she said. "We have all recognized in our public comments that his role was important in having this success." Panetta, however, told NBC Nightly News that the information came "from a lot of sources" but that "clearly some of it came from the detainees and the interrogation of detainees." He said the interrogation techniques used included "waterboarding."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 04 2011 09:38 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Considering that the White House has made 2-3 directly contradictory statements about what exactly occurred during the Bin Laden operation, I think it's probably a little hasty-- and more than a little distasteful-- to turn this into a referendum on torture. [And by the way, assuming "enhanced interrogation"-- FUCKing euphemisms, man-- produced this direct chain of events (namely, an assassination of a guy hiding in plain sight within the borders of an ostensible US ally after ten years) then perhaps it's not the most efficient way to obtain intelligence, yes?]

TheOldMole May 04 2011 10:09 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Right now on this page: BIN LADEN DEAD followed by NEW FUNNY LINKS THREAD.

Willets Point May 04 2011 10:13 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

TheOldMole wrote: Right now on this page: BIN LADEN DEAD followed by NEW FUNNY LINKS THREAD. And then BBQ - Smoking - Grilling.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 04 2011 10:14 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

TheOldMole wrote: Right now on this page: BIN LADEN DEAD followed by NEW FUNNY LINKS THREAD. With the newest entry in the latter being a Tumblr thread about the former. It's all one big Mobius loop of tragedy and comedy these days.

Frayed Knot May 04 2011 10:53 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Speaking of backtracking, the earlier reports that OBL was armed and using a woman as a human shield have now been amended. And by amended I mean that when they said armed and using a woman as a human shield they really meant to say that he was neither armed nor using a woman as a human shield. Reports about the fatal bullet have it hitting him at or near the eye. No word as yet as to whether he was getting a massage at the time.

seawolf17 May 04 2011 11:12 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

By the way, releasing the photos of a dead Osama Bin Laden would be an exceptionally bad idea.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 04 2011 11:15 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Frayed Knot wrote: Speaking of backtracking, the earlier reports that OBL was armed and using a woman as a human shield have now been amended. And by amended I mean that when they said armed and using a woman as a human shield they really meant to say that he was neither armed nor using a woman as a human shield. Yeah, that was a weird detail to accidentally release.

Edgy DC May 04 2011 11:18 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

There's no way he could have been taken alive. He had a stapler!

metirish May 04 2011 11:24 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

seawolf17 wrote: By the way, releasing the photos of a dead Osama Bin Laden would be an exceptionally bad idea. I agree, reading that the photos clearly show skull matter as it's blown away. and this....really , this needs to happen? The White House has provided more details of President Obama's visit to Ground Zero tomorrow (Thursday). The trip will include a wreath-laying ceremony at Ground Zero, with Obama also having private meetings with the families of 9/11 victims and a public meeting with first responders. The White House also invited George Bush to accompany Obama, but Bush declined. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... -aftermath

metirish May 04 2011 11:33 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

BREAKING NEWS. Obama has decided not to release images of Bin Laden.

metirish May 04 2011 03:04 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

If the UK had launched the raid on Bin Laden http://motherjones.tumblr.com/post/5184 ... d-the-raid

Edgy DC May 04 2011 03:25 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I'm going to guess members of Congress will be shown the photos and evidence, and persumably some other world leaders also.

Frayed Knot May 04 2011 05:29 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: I'm going to guess members of Congress will be shown the photos and evidence ... Do you suppose that there are members of Congress who are asking for them as proof that it actually happened?

Edgy DC May 04 2011 05:45 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Probably one or two (and they want the long-form video, if you please). But my guess is that it's important for the administration to have a multi-lateral backing for their claim in order to keep the inevitable conspiracy theories as far to the fringes as possible.

Edgy DC May 05 2011 05:33 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Virtually every paper I pick up is describing the action as a targeted killing. If there's any notion left that this was an arrest mission with bin Laden's homicide justified by him resisting arrest, few news sources seem to care enough to print it as such.

The Second Spitter May 05 2011 07:17 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead Edited 1 time(s), most recently on May 08 2011 08:28 AM

First chance I've had to add my $0.02 -- Haven't had a chance to catch-up with him, but we briefly chatted over the phone and he said that many people may say "so what?" or "what's changed?" but imagine the feeling you'd get if you worked for 10 years to achieve something, saw good people around you die for that cause, compelled you do things against good conscience and then it finally pays-off?

Benjamin Grimm May 05 2011 07:30 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Can you imagine the exhilaration that whichever SEAL it was experienced when he rounded a corner, or entered a doorway, and saw bin Laden himself standing there? When they went in, they weren't sure that bin Laden was there. As I understand it, their instructions were to make a hasty exit if their tip proved false. (That would have been rather awkward, though, wouldn't it?) They also grabbed a bunch of laptops, and CD's, and other electronic media. There's probably a wealth of information on those disks that can easily be of more value than even the death of Osama bin Laden.

Edgy DC May 05 2011 07:45 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I agree that the "so what?" response is shallow, carelessly thoughtless, and grossly inconsiderate of the men and women that have been pursuing him (and shedding their blood in the process) for a decade. In my arguments to restore the value and of due process and challenge our leaders to work within a Constitutionally legal framework, I find little common cause with the "so what?" faction.

The Second Spitter May 05 2011 08:59 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

My personal view is that I lack the standing to judge on this issue. Something completely unrelated -- as usual little credit will go to Dick Marcinko. For me he's as close to a real superhero as you're gonna find and it's great that his legacy lives on and on. In case anybody's interested to learn more about the man, his autobiography is called "Rogue Warrior" -- it's one of those books that compels you to read it from cover-to-cover in one sitting. He also wrote a series of "fictional" books.

HahnSolo May 05 2011 10:51 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Marcinko is an unbelievable guy...I met him filming a commercial for one of his novels (I was an ad/promo guy for his publisher). What a character.

metirish May 05 2011 12:38 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

NYT blog Back at Ladder 54 Engine 4 in Midtown, where Mr. Obama had an early lunch, firefighters said they enjoyed the visit from the president, who thanked them for their service, took off his jacket and settled in for a lengthy conversation, at one point discussing the relative merits of the Mets, the Yankees, the White Sox and the Cubs.

Edgy DC May 05 2011 12:57 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Mr. Obama? I hate when papers do that.

Frayed Knot May 05 2011 01:00 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Barack has shown himself to be willing to stick to his guns and the less-trendy White Sox, which means he's got to be anti-Yanqui and go with the less-trendy Mets as his NL squad or at least as his choice during subway series games while leaving the front-running to his Secretary of State.

RealityChuck May 05 2011 01:18 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Mr. Obama? I hate when papers do that. That's been New York Times style for decades.

Edgy DC May 05 2011 01:46 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Yeah, I know. But not my style.

metirish May 05 2011 02:06 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I read though that they wouldn't use Mr. Bin Laden.

metirish May 05 2011 02:17 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Questions Osama bin Laden death: Pakistan says US may have breached sovereignty Pakistan's foreign minister said on Thursday that US forces may have breached his country's sovereignty, raising fresh doubts about the legality of killing Osama bin Laden. Clutching UN security council documents, Salman Bashir said: "There are legal questions that arise in terms of the UN charter. Everyone ought to be mindful of their international obligations." His comments, at a press conference in Islamabad, may have been aimed as much at preventing India from launching a unilateral raid on Pakistan territory in revenge for the 2008 Mumbai massacres as reproaching Washington. Bashir added that this "violation of sovereignty, and the modalities for combating terrorism, raises certain legal and moral issues which fall ... in the domain of the international community". As more detailed accounts of the assault on Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad by US special forces emerged, international lawyers, religious leaders and human rights groups called for clearer justification of the legitimacy of the raid. In London, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, said American confirmation that the al-Qaida leader was not holding a weapon when he died was disturbing. "The killing of an unarmed man is always going to leave a very uncomfortable feeling because it doesn't look as if justice is seen to be done," he said. "When we are faced with someone who was manifestly a war criminal in terms of the atrocities inflicted it is important that justice is seen to be served." In the wake of reports that only one of those who died opened fire on the US Navy Seals team, repeated revisions of the initial, official version of events have reinforced international unease. The veteran Cuban leader, Fidel Castro, was among those who exploited those doubts. The US president, he wrote, "has no way to hide that Osama was executed in the presence of his children and wives". Following years of targeted killings by US drones along the Afghan/Pakistan border and in Yemen, the death of Bin Laden plays into a climate of legal and political suspicion about the lawfulness of American overseas strikes. The International Committee of the Red Cross discussed the Bin Laden case in Geneva. "The ICC do not ... have enough facts to assess the legal and humanitarian implications," a spokesman said. Earlier this week, the UN's independent investigator on extrajudicial killings, Christof Heyns, said there was "considerable dispute in legal circles as to whether we are dealing with an armed conflict in respect of al-Qaida in Pakistan". Prof Nick Grief, an international lawyer at Kent University, said that the attack had the appearance of an "extrajudicial killing without due process of the law". He added: "It may not have been possible to take him alive... but no one should be outside the protection of the law." Even after the end of the second world war, Nazi war criminals had been given a fair trial, Grief added. Comparisons between Bin Laden and Nazi war criminals have set the context for debates over whether greater effort should have been made to capture the founder of al-Qaida alive and bring him to justice in an international court. The writer Toby Young said that a different second world war analogy applied, since al-Qaida had not surrendered, unlike the Nazis in 1945. Comparisons should not be with Nazi war trials, he wrote, "but with the plot to assassinate Hitler ... Had the Allies succeeded in assassinating any of the Nazi leaders during the Second World War, we would have applauded those responsible." Most legal opinion in the United States has accepted the White House's rationale that the US is at war with al-Qaida. Steven Ratner, a professor at the University of Michigan law school, said: "A lot of it depends on whether you believe Osama bin Laden is a combatant in a war or a suspect in a mass murder." If Bin Laden was a combatant, then "whether he has a gun or not really doesn't matter", Ratner said. "You're lawfully permitted to kill combatants." The US administration has asserted that he had two weapons within reach. But David Scheffer, of Northwestern University school of law, pointed out that Bin Laden was indicted in Manhattan US district court in 1998 for conspiracy to attack US defence installations. "Normally when an individual is under indictment, the purpose is to capture that person to bring him to court to try him," Scheffer said. "The object is not to summarily execute him if he's under indictment." Such questions may only be resolved if the instructions given to the US navy Seals are published and clarification given about what efforts were made force Bin Laden to surrender. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... overeignty Bold is mine.

Edgy DC May 05 2011 02:31 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Pakistan will unfortunately drop it's claim for a payoff. There's a prediction.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 05 2011 02:45 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

There's a certainty.

metsguyinmichigan May 05 2011 03:06 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

RealityChuck wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Mr. Obama? I hate when papers do that. That's been New York Times style for decades. When I worked for the Bridgeport Post and Telegram in the late 1980s, our use of courtesy titles ended after Meat Loaf appeared before a planning board or something and was called "Mr. Loaf."

Nymr83 May 05 2011 06:30 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Pakistan will unfortunately drop it's claim for a payoff. There's a prediction. I think Pakistan would be quite happy to have this all go away as soon as possible, the "payoff" being less questions pointed at them as to how Osama got there and who knew about it.

metirish May 05 2011 07:26 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Washington Post reporting that the CIA were watching the Bin Laden house from a safe house for a long time.

The Second Spitter May 06 2011 04:35 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Can you imagine the exhilaration that whichever SEAL it was experienced when he rounded a corner, or entered a doorway, and saw bin Laden himself standing there? An ordinary soldier probably would have bucked his first shot -- just like LHO did (and don't let anyone make you believe otherwise, it was an extremely easy shot). However, SpecWar soldiers are on another level of human being. They are so conscious of their surroundings it's scary. Their responses are 95 per cent automated.  I'd bet on them everytime. What's interesting about OBL's case, is that reports suggested he was double-tapped (although wasnt explicitly stated, as such). Nowadays the policy of SOCOM teams is to triple-tap, even with 5.56mm weapons. HahnSolo wrote: Marcinko is an unbelievable guy...I met him filming a commercial for one of his novels (I was an ad/promo guy for his publisher). What a character. No fricken way! I'd love to meet him. I know people who have, and they say when he walks into a room, his mere presence absorbs everybody's attention.

Benjamin Grimm May 11 2011 08:00 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

metirish May 14 2011 07:51 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

NY Post today

Nymr83 May 14 2011 08:50 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

I'm no expert, but porn is likely considered "un-islamic." I think we should release Osama's porn collection so as to leave no doubt as to what a hypocrit he was. Excuse me while I go watch...alone...in the dark...

metirish May 14 2011 10:25 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Post has that covered too

Edgy DC May 15 2011 05:30 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Sounds like the editorial team at The Post is overdue for it's periodic punching.

Frayed Knot May 15 2011 05:35 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Yeah, especially since I can't believe they missed 'Guerrillas Gone Wild'

Edgy DC May 17 2011 01:35 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Senator John McCain says torture isn't effective intelligence gathering, and isn't what led us to Bin Laden's door. Hey, Senator Rick Santorum, do you concur? I don't, everything I've read shows that we would not have gotten this information as to who this man was if it had not been gotten information from people who were subject to enhanced interrogation. And so this idea that we didn't ask that question while Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was being waterboarded, he doesn't understand how enhanced interrogation works. I mean, you break somebody, and after they're broken, they become cooperative. And that's when we got this information. And one thing led to another, and led to another, and that's how we ended up with bin Laden.

metirish May 17 2011 01:48 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Is it me or is that quote hard to understand?, did McCain say that or Santorum? The first line is brutal to read.

Edgy DC May 17 2011 01:56 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Yes it is. It's Santorum speaking and disagreeing with McCain, and demonstrating that torturing logic and facts is as brutal and fruitless as torturing prisoners.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 17 2011 01:59 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Awful how the right has claimed torture as a core issue along with small government! and less taxes.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 17 2011 02:00 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Looking at Rick Santorum sometimes gives me hope. Because if he's a published author and two-term senator, then people like us really can do anything. Then I remember that he has, like, 7 kids, and I'm a little sad again.

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2011 07:32 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

soupcan May 19 2011 08:35 AM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Senator John McCain says torture isn't effective intelligence gathering, and isn't what led us to Bin Laden's door. Hey, Senator Rick Santorum, do you concur? I don't, everything I've read shows that we would not have gotten this information as to who this man was if it had not been gotten information from people who were subject to enhanced interrogation. And so this idea that we didn't ask that question while Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was being waterboarded, he doesn't understand how enhanced interrogation works. I mean, you break somebody, and after they're broken, they become cooperative. And that's when we got this information. And one thing led to another, and led to another, and that's how we ended up with bin Laden. Well yeah, Santorum's obviously correct here. Not like McCain's got any firsthand knowledge of torture or anything.....oh, wait.

Edgy DC Dec 08 2011 02:27 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Whoah. Look who just pulled it out during a press conference. [youtube:1426iqf6]vnObS88mE8Y[/youtube:1426iqf6]

Fman99 Dec 08 2011 07:33 PM Re: Bin Laden Dead

Edgy DC wrote: Whoah. Look who just pulled it out during a press conference. Please, haven't we had enough Bernie Fine coverage?