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Don't trade Reyes

TheOldMole Jun 06 2011 08:17 AM

It just can't be said often enough.

metirish Jun 06 2011 08:28 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't trade Reyes signed - metirish

Ceetar Jun 06 2011 08:30 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

You think they're going to drag this out and torture us all the way into the free-free agent period? Or will they sign an extension this summer?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 06 2011 08:36 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Dudes with the 'don't trade Reyes' banner pictured in the Snooze today apparently were kicked out of the park. I was talking with the guy in the orange shirt at McFadden's last night. Meanwhile on a related topic, Bill Madden with about the worst piece of shit he's ever written this morning. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... _deal.html

metirish Jun 06 2011 08:44 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Dudes with the 'don't trade Reyes' banner pictured in the Snooze today apparently were kicked out of the park. I was talking with the guy in the orange shirt at McFadden's last night. Meanwhile on a related topic, Bill Madden with about the worst piece of shit he's ever written this morning. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... _deal.html OMFG , Mets owe it to him to trade him? ....Madden has out done himself.

MFS62 Jun 06 2011 08:45 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Meanwhile on a related topic, Bill Madden with about the worst piece of shit he's ever written this morning. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... _deal.html That reads like he wrote it before he even got out of bed this morning (while he was still jerkin' his gherkin to the picture of Jeter on his wall). Rating Madden columns is difficult, because its tough to tell the difference between worst shit and best shit. But I'd put this on the top 10 list, moving up fast, with a bullet. Later

The Second Spitter Jun 06 2011 08:45 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ceetar wrote: You think they're going to drag this out and torture us all the way into the free-free agent period? Oh, yeah.

Ceetar Jun 06 2011 08:46 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Dudes with the 'don't trade Reyes' banner pictured in the Snooze today apparently were kicked out of the park. I was talking with the guy in the orange shirt at McFadden's last night. Meanwhile on a related topic, Bill Madden with about the worst piece of shit he's ever written this morning. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... _deal.html Ted Berg already killed Madden for that one. Drivel. I'm not going to read it. Yeah, The7line guy is getting around. Called in to Boomer and Carton (actually they hunted him down as they were grossly misunderstanding the situation but at least they got him on and got the real facts. the news/traffic woman usually wears the shirts) is on Metsblog.

The Second Spitter Jun 06 2011 08:47 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Jesus.

metirish Jun 06 2011 08:50 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

My first reaction was that this would be like the Bruins letting ray Borque go to the Avs, but then I thought wait Wright isn't 39 years old......fuck off Bill.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2011 08:54 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I was able to tell it was stupid just by the headline. I started to Madden's article a quick skim to get the rough gist, but I found I couldn't even bring myself to do that.

Willets Point Jun 06 2011 08:58 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'm just here to say Don't Trade Reyes. There's no way I'm going to read that article.

Valadius Jun 06 2011 09:23 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

What Willets said.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 06 2011 09:33 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

It's gotten to the point where having won the Spink after a certain year threshold is almost an ANTI-quality seal.

metsguyinmichigan Jun 06 2011 09:41 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

What's Madden doing, trying to be the evil heir to Dick Young? Drive another Mets superstar out of town?

metsmarathon Jun 06 2011 09:42 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

don't fucking trade reyes. don't fucking trade wright. build a fucking winner and rake in the fucking dough.

Willets Point Jun 06 2011 09:54 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

metsmarathon wrote: don't fucking trade reyes. don't fucking trade wright. build a fucking winner and rake in the fucking dough. This.

TheOldMole Jun 06 2011 11:08 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

If they need to cut salary, trade Frankie before he vests. Better yet, sell the fucking team to someone who can afford to pay their salaries.

Vic Sage Jun 06 2011 11:31 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

don't fucking trade reyes. don't fucking trade wright. build a fucking winner and rake in the fucking dough. Rinse. Repeat. If they need to cut salary, trade Frankie before he vests. Better yet, sell the fucking team to someone who can afford to pay their salaries. This... and that.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2011 11:34 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Think is, I want Reyes retained as much as anybody, but part of me feels that the more agitation we participate in, the more his price goes up. If you were to walk into his agent's office and slam an offer on the table, what would it be?

Vic Sage Jun 06 2011 11:37 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

6yr/$100M - take it or leave it.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2011 11:38 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'd make him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2011 11:40 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Vic Sage wrote: 6yr/$100M - take it or leave it. You'd really open with a take-it-or-leave-it offer?

Vic Sage Jun 06 2011 11:45 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

no, i'd probably open with hookers and blow. but that's me. I don't know about Sandy.

Ashie62 Jun 06 2011 11:51 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

As long as ts' not Carl Crawford money we may be ok. Liked Bobby V saying keepin Wright, Reyes and Santana is par for the market.

Ceetar Jun 06 2011 11:58 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

What I'd start offering him? 90/5, that's $18 million a year. I'd auto-vest a 6th year at $20 ($2 buyout) based on 700 games played (140 per) and maybe a 7th based on 140 in year 6. Then I'd give him bonuses. Lots and lots of bonuses. 1 million or breaking the Mets all-time hits mark (the first time) 1 million for 1000 steals. 1 million for active leader in triples. things like that.

Vic Sage Jun 06 2011 12:06 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

i think $16-$18m/yr for 5-7 years is the right ballpark. If he signs elsewhere within those parameters, we have a right to be pissed.

Ceetar Jun 06 2011 12:15 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Actually, I guess to really make it fair you have say "bonus for passing Kranepool". Giving him a bonus for becoming the franchise leader in hits might be too close to saying "You get a million if you're better than David Wright"

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2011 12:16 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Buster Olney said last night - both in the pre-game and once during it - the the team is prepared to make him an offer "sometime this summer" (was I believe the wording he used). Not sure where Buster was getting his info from but I don't recall hearing something that concrete prior to now. Presumably that means they try something before the trading deadline just to see if the two sides are miles apart or just somewhat apart, or maybe just to see if the Reyes camp even wants to talk at all. Project out a little further and you get the idea that if they don't like what they hear (or don't hear) they'd be open to trading him but then that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms because, as Bobby said during the game, if you can't sign him then what can you realistically do and/or if you're dealing him away then you might as well deal everyone (Wright included) and start all over. And even if you do that you're still going to be stuck with Bay and Santana (or a large portion of their contracts) so how low is your payroll going to be anyway? Reyes is already making $11 this year so it's not like the payroll is going up by $19/yr if that's what his salary winds up being via a new deal because you're already 2/3 of the way there now. Shit, the Castillo deal coming off the books pays for most of the difference.

Ceetar Jun 06 2011 12:20 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Yeah, I've been sorta thinking of it along the lines of "Give him Castillo's money". I really thought they'd work out an extension in the Spring, but i wonder if Madoff/finances messed with that. After all, things like payroll taxes and bonuses would've had to come from this years budget if they signed him preseason. Now that all becomes next season stuff, and with the sale finalizing, the immediate economic future of the team (not Sterling obviously) is somewhat predictable and budgetable. It would make good PR sense too. Quiet down the fans, show them you do care about th em, and have the national audience talk about a lifelong Met at the All-Star Game instead of salivating and making up trade rumors when Reyes talks to say Tim Lincecum.

Frayed Knot Jun 06 2011 12:28 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I think the new guys were reluctant to start throwing out huge contracts immediately upon arrival because - well maybe because they couldn't with finances being up in the air and all - but also because they wanted to get the lay of the land. Reyes, after all, did NOT have this kind of year last season and has had the best parts of two entire seasons blown out of the water due to a variety of injuries. Also, as much of a cliche about how players are able to turn it on in a contract year, that's one of those things that's true except for when it isn't so let's not kid ourselves into believing that this kind of start was inevitable for Jose even if this is the kind of production from him we've imagined all these years. Now that Sandy et al have seen him up close and personal and now that a minority investor is (most of the way) in place I think things have changed and there will definitely be talks prior to the FA period in November. Whether those talks go anywhere or not ... "Crawford money", btw, is 7 years at just over $20/per and he was approx 1 year older at the time of his deal than Jose will be this fall.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2011 12:29 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Everybody in baseball isn't making the money they hoped to make. Nine teams are in violation of of MLB's debt service rules. Jimmy Rollins is out there competing for offers. If you're a leading shortstop on the free agent market, this isn't the ideal season. I still think he'll see $20 million per year over at least five years.

Ceetar Jun 06 2011 12:34 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: Everybody in baseball isn't making the money they hoped to make. Nine teams are in violation of of MLB's debt service rules. Jimmy Rollins is out there competing for offers. If you're a leading shortstop on the free agent market, this isn't the ideal season. I still think he'll see $20 million per year over at least five years. The best part is someone is going to drastically overpay for Rollins. I'm not sure I hope it's the Phillies or not.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2011 01:50 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I just hope it's not the Mets.

Ceetar Jun 06 2011 01:59 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I just hope it's not the Mets. geeze. That would be horrible. It'd be about as close to buying a Cano jersey as I could get.

Gwreck Jun 06 2011 03:24 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ceetar wrote: geeze. That would be horrible. Objectively, I really like Jimmy Rollins. He's just the kind of player that suits me: he speaks his mind; he's intelligent; he's not afraid to be cocky and have some swagger. Now, I of course dislike him because he's on the Phillies. And I used to dislike the Phillies for their blatant hypocrisy in obssessing over Reyes (nowadays, the obsession is just pathetic) when Rollins is just as much a showboat in his own way. I don't want Rollins on the Mets because he's older and less talented than he used to be. But he's exactly the kind of player I like. If he had been on the Mets all these years, we'd love him the same way we love Jose.

Fman99 Jun 06 2011 03:46 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't trade Reyes.

TransMonk Jun 06 2011 03:51 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I REALLY don't want the Mets to trade Reyes.

themetfairy Jun 06 2011 03:59 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't Trade Jose!

G-Fafif Jun 06 2011 04:20 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

No negocie Reyes. In any language, don't trade Reyes.

themetfairy Jun 06 2011 04:44 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

N'echangez pas Jose!

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2011 04:46 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Gwreck wrote: I don't want Rollins on the Mets because he's older and less talented than he used to be. But he's exactly the kind of player I like. If he had been on the Mets all these years, we'd love him the same way we love Jose. I agree.

Edgy DC Jun 06 2011 05:25 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

ceetar is just trying to rationalize the Cano jersey he alreay owns but hasn't had the courage to wear yet.

seawolf17 Jun 06 2011 05:36 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

On'tday Adetray Eyesray.

Ceetar Jun 06 2011 05:55 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: ceetar is just trying to rationalize the Cano jersey he alreay owns but hasn't had the courage to wear yet. You know, (Doncha know?) Cano is the first name I thought of. I then sat there for 15 seconds trying to figure if I was going to buy a Yankee jersey, which one would I buy? Not Tex, obviously not Jeter. I might go A-Rod just for the legendary aspect of it. No one else really appeals. Maybe Hughes if he was pitching. Swisher is cool but I don't see him remaining a Yankee for long. I don't like Rollins. I never liked Rollins. He always struck me as a bit of an overrated punk, going back to his first or second year. He was one of those guys that's been pretty hyped the whole time and he didn't seem worth it to me. I'm sure I'd like the guy if he was on my team, but in this specific context, of trading the best SS in the game that we adore for an older, lesser model that we hate, would feel like such a slap in the face.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 06 2011 07:46 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Gwreck wrote: geeze. That would be horrible. Objectively, I really like Jimmy Rollins. He's just the kind of player that suits me: he speaks his mind; he's intelligent; he's not afraid to be cocky and have some swagger. Now, I of course dislike him because he's on the Phillies. And I used to dislike the Phillies for their blatant hypocrisy in obssessing over Reyes (nowadays, the obsession is just pathetic) when Rollins is just as much a showboat in his own way. I don't want Rollins on the Mets because he's older and less talented than he used to be. But he's exactly the kind of player I like. If he had been on the Mets all these years, we'd love him the same way we love Jose. I'm with G on this. (Plus, Rollins does a great Rickey Henderson swing-and-run impression.) Rollins then, not Rollins now, of course.

The Second Spitter Jun 06 2011 07:54 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Gwreck wrote: Objectively, I really like Jimmy Rollins. He's just the kind of player that suits me: he speaks his mind; he's intelligent; he's not afraid to be cocky and have some swagger. Now, I of course dislike him because he's on the Phillies. And I used to dislike the Phillies for their blatant hypocrisy in obssessing over Reyes (nowadays, the obsession is just pathetic) when Rollins is just as much a showboat in his own way. I don't want Rollins on the Mets because he's older and less talented than he used to be. But he's exactly the kind of player I like. If he had been on the Mets all these years, we'd love him the same way we love Jose. This is how I feel exactly.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 06 2011 08:00 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I agree with the agreements. Like that Rollins also is a part of a tradition of exciting black players out of Oakland.

The Second Spitter Jun 07 2011 05:02 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

So we all agree Gwreck should be GM of the Mets......and President of the United States of America.

G-Fafif Jun 07 2011 05:44 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Has anybody yet said, "Don't Trade Reyes" today? Because Don't Trade Reyes.

themetfairy Jun 07 2011 05:53 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

N'echangez pas Reyes!

The Second Spitter Jun 07 2011 05:57 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

You sound so sexy typing that in French!

themetfairy Jun 07 2011 06:11 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

The Second Spitter wrote: You sound so sexy typing that in French! Merci, mon ami ;)

The Second Spitter Jun 07 2011 07:15 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

It's like Gomez, whenever Morticia speaks French. Hey Profiteers of Mets related t-shirts.....here's and idea: Front of T-shirt: Has anybody yet said, "Don't Trade Reyes" today? Back of T-shirt: Because.... Don't Trade Reyes! N'echangez pas Reyes! No negocie Reyes! , etc. Thank you, and put me down for 30 per cent.

Ceetar Jun 07 2011 07:20 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

email it to Darren at the7line.

The Second Spitter Jun 07 2011 07:21 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Fuck Derwood, there are much more capable people here.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 07 2011 08:40 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't trade Reyes (no, no), Oh, don't you do it now, Don't trade Reyes (no, no) Don't give up like they want you to You can pay him with an I.O.U. I'll explain the facts to you, Don't trade Reyes Keep him around or our interest is through Don't trade Reyes (no, no), Oh, don't you do it now, Don't trade Reyes (no, no) He can steal a base or two Runs faster than Seattle Slew Flashier than Vida Blue Don't trade Reyes We want him and Sandy so should you Infielder with some pop, The best one in the sport He's an All-Star at shortstop And when he steals he's seldom caught Don't trade Reyes (no, no), Oh, don't you do it now, Don't trade Reyes (no, no) Fred you got some explainin' to do Saul and Jeff, you do too Step aside let Einhorn through Don't trade Reyes You mess this up we'll turn our backs on you [Instrumental break] When he steals he's seldom caught Don't trade Reyes (no, no), Oh, don't you do it now, Don't trade Reyes (no, no) I wouldn't say our team is through We still have Ike and David too, And watching Jose's fun to do Don't trade Reyes We want him here til 2022! Don't trade Reyes (no, no), Oh, don't you do it now, Don't trade Reyes (no, no) [Fade] Or you'll be sorry, baby Don't trade Reyes (no, no) We wanna love you Sandy Don't trade Reyes

Farmer Ted Jun 07 2011 09:26 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Be careful HOW you ask the Mets not to trade Jose... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_le ... ng-content

Ceetar Jun 07 2011 09:34 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Farmer Ted wrote: Be careful HOW you ask the Mets not to trade Jose... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_le ... ng-content ack, i read the comments. my eyes, my eyes!

metsguyinmichigan Jun 07 2011 11:06 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 07 2011 11:10 AM

I know security is heavy handed. But I can sorta see the team's point. They charge people gobs of money to advertise in the stadium. He's essentially taking that service for free. Not that GEICO would start having people walk around the stadium with signs to avoid paying for the giant billboard. But his sign was more about promoting him and his product that actually supporting Reyes, one might think. And when you walk around with a sign like that, you're blocking the view of someone who paid a lot of money to sit there. It's one thing to get your view blocked by a guy cheering on the team, it's another when the guy is promoting his own site. If the team periodically blocked your view with a DRINK BUD sign, you'd be irked. The team screwed up by giving him something he can parlay into exposure far greater than he ever imagined. I looked at the site. Liked the shirts with the neon players from Shea. The rest? Eh.

seawolf17 Jun 07 2011 11:07 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I looked at the site. Liked the shirts with the neon players from Shea. The rest? Eh. Some of them are funny, but not necessarily funny enough to buy. Although I do like the VALENTINE 2 one. I bought one of the neon guy shirts last summer; quality shirt.

Ceetar Jun 07 2011 11:42 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: metsguyinmichigan wrote: I looked at the site. Liked the shirts with the neon players from Shea. The rest? Eh. Some of them are funny, but not necessarily funny enough to buy. Although I do like the VALENTINE 2 one. I bought one of the neon guy shirts last summer; quality shirt. I like some of them. I'm not overly enamored with them persay, but I get that there would be demand for some of the Queens. It probably is more appealing to a certain demographic, and one that we like to pretend only goes to Yankees games, but are plenty prevelant in Mets gear as well. I kinda like the Even Lesbians Love Dickey one, but probably not something I would wear myself. But I think it fills a gap in Mets merchandise that they seem reluctant to fill except with corporate Pink/Touch stuff. While I get why they kicked him out, and maybe it's even fair (although plenty sketchy and heavy-handed by security, but that's what happens when you're security/cops/bouncers. You get heavy handed because that's your job and no one's policing you. They treated me the same way in Shea, perhaps worse, for a much tamer offense) but I can't help but wonder if it was MLB related. They were fine with the sign on SNY. Or maybe it just took them that long to figure out the legal twist to not having ".com" on your sign.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 07 2011 11:50 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Trying to sell shirts really weakens the impact of the message. Presumably these guys would be schilling "Get Manny" shirts a few years ago.

metirish Jun 07 2011 11:58 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Trying to sell shirts really weakens the impact of the message. Presumably these guys would be schilling "Get Manny" shirts a few years ago. or worse GOT MANNY? shirts.

SteveJRogers Jun 07 2011 05:11 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ceetar wrote: They were fine with the sign on SNY. Or maybe it just took them that long to figure out the legal twist to not having ".com" on your sign. Or it took them that long to realize that it was a merchandise site, and not someone pimping out his blog or fan community outlet. FWIW, I'm starting to think maybe this line of thinking is a bit counter productive in terms of starting fresh. Not to go back into the whole "cahhaw" (TM The Sports Pope Francesa) debate. But, the guy has been very often injured. And yeah the Mets medical staff can share the blame, but still. He is a bit of a headcase and has always shown signs of lack of maturity, I mean the Willie Randolph situation in Houston is exhibit A, to say nothing about his silly dances and everything. And yes, there are players and actions that are worse, but it does say a lot for someone when they somehow play BETTER when allowed to do clownish things and not so well when trying to tone it down. And finally the guy is clearly playing the best he's ever been because of the contract year. At his age, you have to figure he'll go back to his normal .280 self. And quite frankly, I think we've seen the best Reyes will ever be and it will be all downhill from this point forward. Call me by my nickname here all you want, but at this rate, everyone here is kidding themselves thinking at any point of their careers, even in 2011, that Reyes is better than Jeter. So, let's trade him when his value is clearly at his highest that it will ever be. Quite frankly, I'd like to see the Mets be on the opposite side of an Jim Fregosi deal, where the Mets fleece the hell out of a team. I don't think the Mets have had such a lopsided deal since Cone for Hearn.

Gwreck Jun 07 2011 05:17 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Steve, you're wrong. The two most glaring examples are: 1. The Jeter nonsense; 2. The idea that Retes is playing the best he's ever played *because* it's a contract year.

Edgy DC Jun 07 2011 05:26 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Steve pushing the Yankee agenda. What is it about Jose Reyes that is so offensive? That he hasn't always head in the game? Citing two- and three-year-old incidents. Neither did Babe Ruth.

SteveJRogers Jun 07 2011 05:35 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 07 2011 05:44 PM

Gwreck wrote: Steve, you're wrong. 2. The idea that Retes is playing the best he's ever played *because* it's a contract year. Prove me wrong, look at the stats this year as compared to the other years where he's been healthy for an entire season. I just had it done to me today by someone. There is NO WAY this is the norm for Jose Reyes. So the bottom line is, he is a contract year player. And yeah, I agree Jeter is a vastly overated player thanks to the NYC market overhype, but at the same time how was Reyes ever considered a more consistant player?

SteveJRogers Jun 07 2011 05:37 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: Steve pushing the Yankee agenda. What is it about Jose Reyes that is so offensive? That he hasn't always head in the game? Citing two- and three-year-old incidents. Neither did Babe Ruth. That's fair, but it also makes it more advantagous to trade him now and makes you wonder if this is the best that he'll ever be, and that this is a fluke spike based on it being a contract year.

Ceetar Jun 07 2011 05:47 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

SteveJRogers wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Steve pushing the Yankee agenda. What is it about Jose Reyes that is so offensive? That he hasn't always head in the game? Citing two- and three-year-old incidents. Neither did Babe Ruth. That's fair, but it also makes it more advantagous to trade him now and makes you wonder if this is the best that he'll ever be, and that this is a fluke spike based on it being a contract year. It would've been prudent to sign him off _last year_ when he was still one of the top SS in the league. Now he's one of the top _players_ in the game. If the tail end of his contract is like 2010, we'll be asking where to put the statue. Also, the "lack of maturity" stuff is merely fun-loving. Head in the game? He gets picked off first less than Henderson did. It's a drawback of being an aggressive player.

SteveJRogers Jun 07 2011 06:17 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ceetar wrote: It would've been prudent to sign him off _last year_ when he was still one of the top SS in the league. Now he's one of the top _players_ in the game. If the tail end of his contract is like 2010, we'll be asking where to put the statue. You think he still will be one of the top players in the game next year when his stats go back, drastically, to his norm and he returns to his often injured ways? Quite frankly, I'm starting to think we are guilty of the same things that happened to Jeter over the years. Overhyping simply because the player is just plain good and plays in New York. Hell, I've talked with several MFY fans and they wouldn't want him, even over the 2011 version of Jeter. For the same reasons I've mentioned; often injured, head case, playing over his head because its a contract year, etc. Also, the "lack of maturity" stuff is merely fun-loving. Head in the game? He gets picked off first less than Henderson did. It's a drawback of being an aggressive player. That's what they said about Manny. Before he started shoving senior citizens around, quiting on his team to force a trade, and oh yeah, failing a SECOND PED test. Not saying Reyes is a Manny-in-waiting, but...ah hell, look at comments made about Roger McDowell in the thread about his incident in SF earlier this year. A "fun loving attitude" on the surface could be the sign of something darker underneath a person. Especially when you start getting into your mid-late 20s and such. Sure, that's the definition of cherry picking right there, but, I don't know, I'd rather Reyes be someonelse's headache at this point. Especially when, as I mentioned, he played worse when asked to tone it down a bit and sulked in the Willie Randolph Houston situation.

G-Fafif Jun 07 2011 06:28 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

SteveJRogers wrote: Hell, I've talked with several MFY fans and they wouldn't want him, even over the 2011 version of Jeter. For the same reasons I've mentioned; often injured, head case, playing over his head because its a contract year, etc. And in what fucking universe are MFY fans the ultimate arbiter of player value? I've just talked to one Mets fan, and he wouldn't take the 2011 version of Jeter over impetigo.

SteveJRogers Jun 07 2011 06:38 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Fine, I talked with one impartial observer of the same conversation, and he said I was nuts for ever taking Reyes over Jeter (again at any point in his career) and agreed with the assertion that it would be a bad trade for the MFYs to take Reyes off of the Mets' hands. Reyes is simply not that good, and his career stats bear that fact out, and is more of an example of the New York overhype than Jeter ever was.

G-Fafif Jun 07 2011 06:43 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I just talked to an impartial observer who would rather expose himself to dangerous levels of pollen than the 2011 version of Jeter.

SteveJRogers Jun 07 2011 06:51 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Hey, you did ask to bring something to the table other than what MFY fans felt when it comes to a Reyes-Jeter debate.

G-Fafif Jun 07 2011 06:57 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Who cares what straw man MFY fans/impartial observers think? Unless they're scouts or seers, their opinion is as valid or as worthless as yours, mine or anyone's. It's not crazy (I don't think) to maintain reservations about Reyes for the money and years he'll command. If I could be convinced that a Reyes for Incredible Prospect Package trade would set the Mets on the path toward accelerated contention, and that the Mets wouldn't desperately feel the void of missing Reyes at short and at the top of the lineup, I'd be all for seriously considering it. But allusions to People You Know, just because they don't dig Reyes, aren't going to convince me.

Edgy DC Jun 07 2011 07:13 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I've talked to the neighbor's dog and he's saying all sorts of crazy shit.

seawolf17 Jun 07 2011 07:15 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Bobby V said it well the other night; if they don't have Reyes in the lineup/clubhouse/dugout/team store, they're going to be looking for a guy exactly like that for a long time.

Gwreck Jun 07 2011 07:23 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

SteveJRogers wrote: Prove me wrong, look at the stats this year as compared to the other years where he's been healthy for an entire season. Your argument is not that he's playing well, it's that he's playing well BECAUSE it's a contract year. Those were YOUR words.

Edgy DC Jun 07 2011 07:35 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

It's a fact that players perform misleadingly well in contract years. Look at Jeter. (Like I have to ask Steve to look.)

Edgy DC Jun 07 2011 08:06 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

He's had five completish seasons and two partial seasons. Those five completish ones are the five best offensive seasons from any shortstop in Mets history. I'll take that going forward.

The Second Spitter Jun 07 2011 08:16 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: Bobby V said it well the other night; if they don't have Reyes in the lineup/clubhouse/dugout/team store, they're going to be looking for a guy exactly like that for a long time. I'm pretty sure the Brain's Trust understand this -- if Reyes gives the Mets a home-team discount* (in the vicinity of 10-15%) it would go against what they believe in. The only thing that will prevent this is intervention from our esteemed owner. *Am I naive to believe that he'll give the Mets a home team discount?

Fman99 Jun 07 2011 09:00 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't. Trade. Reyes.

Willets Point Jun 07 2011 09:20 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Oh man, this has turned into a Steve Jeets thread. PS - Don't Trade Reyes.

metsmarathon Jun 07 2011 09:25 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

we're a third of the way into the season right now. fangraphs.com has reyes as the #2 player in the majors with 3.2 WAR. he's tied with joey votto, behind only jose bautista and his silly 4.9 WAR. derek jeter sits way down there at 0.5 WAR thus far. derek jeter is on pace for a 1.5 WAR season. if jose reyes stopped playing after the conclusion of tonights game, he'd still have been [u:22xauot7]twice [/u:22xauot7]as productive as derek jeter will be [u:22xauot7]for the entire season. [/u:22xauot7]baseball reference doesn't really love jose reyes' defense. they have him down as the 8th best player in the NL, 19th in the majors, at 2.1 WAR. granted, they have derek jeter at 0.2 WAR. derek jeter is on pace for a 0.6 WAR season according to baseball reference. if jose reyes stopped playing after the conclusion of tonight's game, baseball reference would show him as being over [u:22xauot7]three times [/u:22xauot7]as productive as derek jeter [u:22xauot7]for the entire season[/u:22xauot7]. if jose reyes regresses to his prior ways, he's still a 5+ win player when he's healthy. the only way derek jeter is a 5 win player next year is if he starts hanging out with arod's cousin. hell, i don't think derek jeter will amass 5 wins [u:22xauot7]total [/u:22xauot7]from now until the end of his career. i don't know who you're asking about these hypothetical jeter/reyes swaps, but it would help if they were remotely well-informed. as a side note, i heard on the radio today that micahel kay still expects derek jeter to hit 0.300 this year, despite hitting only 0.260 at the moment. which means that he expects derek jeter to suddenly hit over 0.320 for the remainder of the year. i'd consider him neither impartial nor knowledgeable.

Gwreck Jun 07 2011 09:33 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: It's a fact that players perform misleadingly well in contract years. Maybe, but Reyes is also going to be 28 years old on Saturday and finally completely healthy after some injury shortened seasons. That alone is more than enough reason for a player to put up a "misleadingly" good season.

metsmarathon Jun 07 2011 09:34 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

you generally expect healthy 28 year-olds to put up the best seasons of their respective careers.

Gwreck Jun 07 2011 09:38 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

The Second Spitter wrote: *Am I naive to believe that he'll give the Mets a home team discount? It may not be the Mets per se that would make Jose want to give a favorable rate. His family is set up here; his kids go to school here; there's a large Dominican community here and it's easy to get to the D.R., etc. Moving to -- say, San Francisco -- takes away some of those advantages and disrupts the family. I don't think that's worth $2 or $3 M a year over a 7 year deal, but it's certainly worth something. A second theory (perhaps more farfetched) is that Jose likes being in a place where he is automatically revered by the fans and that might be worth "something" as well. I suppose if Cliff Lee can turn down the biggest bucks for his services and instead play where he wanted to play, Jose Reyes could too.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 07 2011 09:43 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Willets Point wrote: Oh man, this has turned into a Steve Jeets thread. PS - Don't Trade Reyes. Is it weird that I was kind of waiting for this? Steve, even at his worst-- see last year-- he's a top-10 shortstop in the league. Assuming he's the injury-prone headcase that you say he is-- missing a month due to various injury/ailment, and posting a comparable-to-a-cocaine-addled-Carlos-Gomez OBA-- that's his FLOOR, man. Contract year or not-- and I'll point you to the studies deflating the contract-year phenomenon as soon as I get to a computer with a non-farty browser-- we're exploring his ceiling now. Whoever you're talking to that wouldn't swap Reyes for Jeter right now-- regardless of avowed team affiliation, avowed level of general interest in/knowledge of baseball, or the hat they're wearing-- either doesn't exist or is talking to you in between sips of mercury. Were I you, and not consciously trolling, I'd check my drinking water's toxicity, too.

Rockin' Doc Jun 07 2011 09:50 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

SteveJRogers wrote: Call me by my nickname here all you want, but at this rate, everyone here is kidding themselves thinking at any point of their careers, even in 2011, that Reyes is better than Jeter. Steve, I beg you, for your own well being. Please put down the crack pipe and seek help.

Ceetar Jun 08 2011 04:20 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

G-Fafif wrote: I just talked to an impartial observer who would rather expose himself to dangerous levels of pollen than the 2011 version of Jeter. You could probably make the case that you'd get more production from Luis Castillo than Jeter.

Ceetar Jun 08 2011 04:25 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

If the Yankees had just signed Jeter this year Yankees fans would be chasing him out of town already to a chorus of boos. Regardless, Reyes is awesome. I want to watch him be awesome year after year after year. 40 years from now I want to watch him do a silly handshake with David Wright at an old-timers game.

Vince Coleman Firecracker Jun 08 2011 04:52 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I keep seeing Reyes' career numbers brought up to push the idea he's not that great a player/he's not an on-base guy/etc. The problem with using his career numbers is that they include his first 1254 PAs in the majors, when he was a very different (and much lesser) player. Compare: Jose Reyes, age 20-22: 1254 PA/ .277 BA/ .303 OBP/ .395 SLG/ .698 OBP/ 83 OPS+/ 3.22 K:BB Jose Reyes, age 23-28: 3265 PA/ .293 BA/ .351 OBP/ .455 SLG/ .806 OBP/ 112 OPS+/ 1.30 K:BB This is a guy that very clearly made a pretty drastic adjustment to his approach to major league pitching early in his career and has never looked back. Now, you could argue that he doesn't make this adjustment without seeing a thousand major league plate appearances, but you could also argue that he just didn't belong in the majors as early as he was brought up. Either way, it's not all that fair to consider Reyes' career numbers as that accurate an assessment of his value when nearly a third of his career was, essentially, OJT.

seawolf17 Jun 08 2011 04:56 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ceetar wrote: Reyes is awesome. I want to watch him be awesome year after year after year. 40 years from now I want to watch him do a silly handshake with David Wright at an old-timers game. See, that's it. Jeter is an apt comparison in that respect, in that Reyes and Wright could be LEGENDARY with us, paying financial dividends well past their playing days with us as old guys bringing our kids and grandkids.

The Second Spitter Jun 08 2011 04:58 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 08 2011 05:10 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Trying to sell shirts really weakens the impact of the message. I'd love to understand the logic behind this pearl of wisdom.

Edgy DC Jun 08 2011 05:02 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Gwreck wrote: Edgy DC wrote: It's a fact that players perform misleadingly well in contract years. Maybe, but Reyes is also going to be 28 years old on Saturday and finally completely healthy after some injury shortened seasons. That alone is more than enough reason for a player to put up a "misleadingly" good season. I was joking. lol and rofl and pmsl and shit.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 08 2011 05:58 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

The Second Spitter wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Trying to sell shirts really weakens the impact of the message. I'd love to understand the logic behind this pearl of wisdom. You could try I suppose. I'm just saying they have motivation$ that go beyond the sentiment on the banner, who's to say they whether they believe in the cause or are just trying to sell shirts?

The Second Spitter Jun 08 2011 06:35 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Gwreck wrote: A second theory (perhaps more farfetched) is that Jose likes being in a place where he is automatically revered by the fans and that might be worth "something" as well. Not farfetched at all. Just like there are some destinations I believe he won't consider, like Philadelphia, where he is a subject of clubhouse ridicule. Jose strikes me as a "confidence player" (a term I'm not particularly fond of, but I digress) -- he's not the sort of guy that can play somewhere he doesn't feel secure and self-assured. Or somewhere where the natives will turn on you because you like to wear your cap pointing slightly to the left.

G-Fafif Jun 08 2011 07:14 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

The Second Spitter wrote: Jose strikes me as a "confidence player" (a term I'm not particularly fond of, but I digress) -- he's not the sort of guy that can play somewhere he doesn't feel secure and self-assured. Or somewhere where the natives will turn on you because you like to wear your cap pointing slightly to the left. Safe and secure...New York life for Jose.

Edgy DC Jun 08 2011 07:21 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Well, then, while we're all feeling confident in José's generosity and warm fuzzies about New York --- established relationships, Dominican community, hourly filghts to Santo Domingo, and all --- we return to the painfully uncomfortable fact that there's another, richer team in New York, and they need a shortstop. Desperately. Even as they desperately pretend they don't. The Mets'd do well to never let him hit that market. But the facts aren't changing (except for Steve) and we're really just going in circles here.

SteveJRogers Jun 08 2011 07:41 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Trying to sell shirts really weakens the impact of the message. I'd love to understand the logic behind this pearl of wisdom. You could try I suppose. I'm just saying they have motivation$ that go beyond the sentiment on the banner, who's to say they whether they believe in the cause or are just trying to sell shirts? Have to agree with Bucket on this one. Could be them trying to cash in on a popular cause these days. On the flip side, they are making Carter shirts, with proceeds of the sales going to brain cancer research. So they are out to make a buck, but I think they do have a self-awarness when it comes to how to go about doing their merch.

Ceetar Jun 08 2011 07:48 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I think it's probably a correlary to "When all you have is a hammer, all your problems are nails". When you run a small business, particularly one associated with something you love, you're always going to look for ways to profit. I mean, the guy runs a shirt shop. That's what he does, why not try to take advantage of it? Especially when he already was making the shirts a month prior. I've met him once or twice, seems like an alright guy. His desire for the Mets to keep Reyes is genuine

The Second Spitter Jun 08 2011 07:58 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

SteveJRogers wrote: Have to agree with Bucket on this one. Does that happen often?

G-Fafif Jun 08 2011 08:00 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: But the facts aren't changing (except for Steve) and we're really just going in circles here. Don't trade Jose.

G-Fafif Jun 08 2011 08:02 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

If the 7 Line suddenly produces OH YAY! WE TRADED JOSE! shirts, I'll agree the whole thing was a scam on the scale of the Springfield monorail. Until then, reasonably pure motives, tied to potential profits.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 08 2011 08:04 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Jose! Oh Stay! Oh Stay! Oh Stay!

seawolf17 Jun 08 2011 08:38 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Jose Reyes, Yankee, would make me very strongly consider hating baseball.

metirish Jun 08 2011 09:29 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: Jose Reyes, Yankee, would make me very strongly consider hating baseball. I can't even contemplate that , no please , please no.

Gwreck Jun 08 2011 12:08 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

From Buster Olney's ESPN blog: Jose Reyes won another game for the Mets, tacking another moment onto his early-season MVP candidacy. Day by day by day, he demonstrates how good he is and the impact he makes when he's on the field. There are natural questions that follow Reyes and whether he can stay healthy, given his injury history. When Fred Wilpon infamously stated in a New Yorker article that Reyes wouldn't get Carl Crawford money -- the outfielder got a seven-year, $142 million deal from the Red Sox -- the owner's skepticism was presumably based on those concerns. But Reyes is showing, again, that when he plays, he is a star. He's leading the National League in hitting, at .339. He's got 30 extra-base hits already, and a slugging percentage of .512. He's on pace for 49 doubles, 30 triples and three homers. Keep in mind that Reyes turns 28 this weekend. He's younger than Crawford. Reyes plays a premium position, and is an excellent defensive shortstop. As executives with other teams evaluate Reyes and quietly ask questions about his personality and his makeup, as the Red Sox did about Crawford, they will hear over and over what a good guy Reyes is, and how perfectly his personality would play in any baseball clubhouse. He brings a smile to the clubhouse every day, Mets manager Terry Collins said over the weekend, regardless how he played the day before, and Reyes desperately wants to play. "If you try to take him out of the lineup, he'll fight you," Collins said. There is an energy level that Reyes brings to the ballpark every day, the kind of energy that is needed in New York. Wilpon may be right; Reyes won't get Crawford money. If he keeps playing like this, Reyes may get more. And day by day by day, the same Mets fans who are extremely unhappy with the Wilpons and their ownership of the team are making more noise about wanting to keep Reyes. He is home-grown, he belongs to them, he is one of them. He has made it clear in the past: He loves playing in New York, and would like to stay When Fred Wilpon gave time for the interviews with The New Yorker and Sports Illustrated, he was trying to stir up sympathy and an understanding of what his family has gone through in the Madoff scandal. His words about Reyes, David Wright and Carlos Beltran obscured that other side of the story, however, and as the fans in Citi Field increasingly respond to Reyes and his success in 2011, Wilpon has to know this: Reyes' situation is becoming a referendum on the Wilpon ownership. If Wilpon wants to win back some of the favor of his fan base, the most efficient way would be to sign Reyes. If Wilpon doesn't re-sign Reyes, and the Mets' homegrown MVP candidate is traded or walks away as a free agent, a significant portion of the fan base that already knows it's in for a period of rebuilding may never forgive the owner.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2011 12:09 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Buster Olney writes with great wisdom.

TransMonk Jun 08 2011 12:22 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Agreed, Onley speaks the truth.

Centerfield Jun 08 2011 12:31 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Yup.

metirish Jun 08 2011 12:34 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

yup again.... fuck

Edgy DC Jun 08 2011 12:44 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Wait. His play putting the heat on Wilpon is good news, right?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2011 12:55 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I think it is.

metirish Jun 08 2011 12:57 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

It is great news, my fuck was there because as his value increases so are his chances of being gone soon I think.

Vic Sage Jun 08 2011 01:04 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

one of the things that most irritates me about criticism of Reyes is the Fatscesa Doctrine, which states that Reyes' stats are meaningless because he's not "clutch". Grrrrrrr. Of course, those dismissed stats indicate that Reyes is actually a more effective hitter with runners on than otherwise, in every situation. In fact, the tougher the situation, the greater is his OPS, increasing to nearly 100 points over his career average with RISP/2outs. As for post-season, he's only played in one, in 2006, at age 23. He had a bad series against the Dodgers (which the Mets won anyway), and then put up solid career avg numbers in the losing series against St.Louis. So its not like he has an A-Rod type history of failing in the post-season, either. The only legitimate knock on him is that he tends to finish seasons relatively weakly in Sept/Oct (.700 ops), after strong July (.789) - August (.819) performances. Clearly, this is not about "clutch", as his other numbers indicate, but about a guy whose game is predicated on his legs getting tired at the end of the year. Any manager with half a clue looking at these tendencies would rest Reyes more in the heat of August, to keep him stronger for the Fall, but the Mets haven't had such a manager since Bobby V left. But that's not Jose's fault... he plays full out until he's too run down to run well. But in Fatscesa's world, this is a character failing, indicating a lack of intestinal fortitude and therefore he's not worth big money. Of course, the rest of the Yankee-verse may feel similarly, which may make a "Reyes in the Bronx" scenario less likely. One can only relish the irony that their stupidity keeps them from valuing Reyes properly, which may keep them from driving up his price and allow the Mets an opportunity to keep him.

Edgy DC Jun 08 2011 01:05 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I think there's so much we don't know about the money that will be availalbe to the Mets and how they intend to spend it, our best bet is to root for good play and winning. Good news begets good news. As for Reyes not having the magic extra to make him Yankee-worthy, he'll grow that the minute it's necessary to the narrative. A-Rod and Damon did.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 08 2011 01:38 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I don't have all of the salaries at my fingertips, but I think there's a way to do the math that will make Jose affordable. Mets are currently at $140 million. The number they have to get to is less than that, reportedly no lower than $100 million. Subtract expiring contracts of Beltran, Castillo, Reyes, and Perez. (And Chris Young too. Maybe a few others?) Add in new, higher contract for Reyes. Assume that they'll find some way to avoid all or most of the 2012 obligation for Rodriguez. Factor in raises for some players. (Niese, Davis, and Pelfrey, most likely. Perhaps Murphy and Pagan too.) I bet you could come up with a number somewhere around $110 million. If retaining Reyes means no big free agent signings this winter, so be it. Stock up on inexpensive relievers and let Terry pick the best of the bunch to be his closer. (I'd argue that you don't need a designated closer, but I'll concede that nobody thinks that way anymore.) To replace Beltran, you can get an outfielder or two off the scrap heap (like they did with Capuano and Young last winter) and let Martinez and Murphy compete for the spot as well. Is this a recipe for a championship in 2012? Probably not, but it keeps them in the neighborhood of "not too bad" and avoids a tear-down that could set them back for several years. David Wright is under the Mets control through 2013. By the time he needs a new contract, Jason Bay will (thankfully) be off the books. (Who knows, maybe Bay will make himself an asset between now and the end of 2013, but that seems enormously unlikely.)

metirish Jun 08 2011 01:46 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'd not be surprised if the Wilpon's had given thought to Reyes having a crap season and getting him on the cheap.

Ceetar Jun 08 2011 01:54 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

The biggest thing the Mets need is a starting pitcher. Because everyone needs more starting pitching. But it'll likely be Santana-Dickey-Niese-Pelfrey as mainstays, barring injury/lackofrecovery. So it's not like they're out shopping for a bucket load of them, and that's not even counting Gee. Or unknowns like Schwinden or Cohoon being ready. Gotta address RF, but there are internal options of various degrees of potential, and plenty of ways to go. 2B is really looking like between Murphy/Turner/Tejada one of those guys might actually be workable there, at least in the sense of "we don't have to deal with this right now"

Edgy DC Jun 08 2011 02:03 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

metirish wrote: I'd not be surprised if the Wilpon's had given thought to Reyes having a crap season and getting him on the cheap. I think we'd be better slicing it business-wise a la Grimmy and staying away from that sort of speculative stuff. Let's not get ourselves too worked up. We're on a winning streak.

Ceetar Jun 08 2011 02:07 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: metirish wrote: I'd not be surprised if the Wilpon's had given thought to Reyes having a crap season and getting him on the cheap. I think we'd be better slicing it business-wise a la Grimmy and staying away from that sort of speculative stuff. Let's not get ourselves too worked up. We're on a winning streak. 4-2 over the next 6 gets us back to .500 to play the Braves. Angel Pagan is your cleanup hitter. let's get this party started.

Frayed Knot Jun 08 2011 02:17 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'd not be surprised if the Wilpon's had given thought to Reyes having a crap season and getting him on the cheap. I think that whole Wilponian rant in 'The New Yorker' was merely him just trying to impress writer Toobin that he wasn't just some doddering owner, but rather an ex-player who knows baseball. 'Look, just because we hire a GM for this kind of evaluation stuff that doesn't mean I'm incapable of reaching such decisions myself, he seems to be saying; 'I know the difference between good players and superstars and also between those who deserve top-shelf contracts and not ... ' In short, I don't think what he said really has any bearing on what eventually happens. The outside stories of why the Mets are going to deal Reyes are mostly based on several assumptions: 1) the team doesn't have the money -- logical, though largely speculative even if it does get passed off as hard fact by those who have no hard facts 2) the Alderson crew are strict 'Moneyball' adherents who are going to look at Reyes's (usually) pedestrian OBA and run for the hills -- stupidly and hopelessly uninformed 3) this team can't and won't be good for at least the next decade so blowing it up is the only choice -- Absurd. "Experts" read teams incorrectly (both ways) all the time even within the season that's currently going on, so this notion that they know what's going to occur even in the relatively short future is simply arrogant.

soupcan Jun 08 2011 02:23 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Reyes is the player I had been waiting all of my Met fan life to arrive. He is everything a fan could want. Good guy, great player, home-grown. I've been so irritated at the prospect that that they may trade/not re-sign him. Especially seeing the numbers he's been putting up this year. If he does get traded or they do not make a sincere effort to retain him, I could see myself walking away from the Mets unless and until there would be a new ownership structure in place.

Edgy DC Jun 08 2011 02:27 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

It wasn't too many weeks ago that the going wisdom was that this Mets team was going to be historically terrible. Wisdom is not in rushing to claim you know. Wisdom is siezing the unknown and humbly and carefully shaving away the nonsense to find the knowable within.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 08 2011 02:30 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

If he does get traded or they do not make a sincere effort to retain him, I could see myself walking away from the Mets unless and until there would be a new ownership structure in place. That's the referendum Olney's talking about. Whatever the facts are this is going to come down to that -- thanks largely to the Wilpons' ability to make a giant clusterfuck out of anything.

soupcan Jun 08 2011 02:39 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

That's a radical statement from me too. I've been disappointed in a lot of things the Mets have done over the years but I never considered 86-ing them (see what I did there?). Just the fact that I said it, is a huge deal. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool fan - as are we all, otherwise why the hell would we be 'here'? - and I spend a lot of money on that team. For me to consider this...? Well let's just say management should take what Olney said seriously.

Gwreck Jun 08 2011 02:41 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't have all of the salaries at my fingertips, but I think there's a way to do the math that will make Jose affordable. Player 2011 Salary 2012 Salary Already Signed Santana $22.5M $24M Bay $16M $16M Wright $14M $15M Dickey $2.25M $4.25M Carrasco $1.2M $1.2M Arbitration Pelfrey $3.925M $5.5M (?) Pagan $3.5M $5M (?) Cheap Returnees Niese $.452M $.5M Parnell $.4335M $.475M Davis $.432M $.475M Murphy $.422M $.475M Thole $.42M $.475M Beato $.414M $.475M Gee $.4M $.45M Turner $.4M $.45M Possible Returnees/Would Need to Be Replaced Capuano or Extra Starter $1.5M $2M Paulino or Backup Catcher $1.35 $1.5M Hairston or Backup Outfielder $1.1M $1.25M Byrdak or Lefty $.9M $1.2M Harris or Backup $.8M $1M Not Returning Beltran $18.5M --- Igarashi $1.75M --- Young $1.1M --- Perez $12M --- Castillo $6M --- Matthews Jr. $1M --- Plus You'll Need To Fill Another 4-5 Spots --- $7M TOTALS $135.1485* $82.85M Which Leaves us to Consider Reyes $11M ??? Rodriguez $11.5M $17.5M *includes Reyes and Rodriguez

TransMonk Jun 08 2011 02:51 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Affordable Jose in 2012 is one thing, affordable Jose in 2016 or beyond is another...especially when we're having this same conversation about Wright in a year or so. I'm not saying they can't afford him...I'm just saying it's not quite as simple as estimating a budget for next year. I want him back like everyone else, but it certainly isn't as black and white as the figures above.

Ceetar Jun 08 2011 02:53 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Extend Wright now* too and then announce them both as co-captains. *when he returns.

Fman99 Jun 08 2011 03:23 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

We're paying Gary Mathews Jr. a million dollars this year? Hope he kissed them first. Fucking A.

Vic Sage Jun 09 2011 07:21 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

It wasn't too many weeks ago that the going wisdom was that this Mets team was going to be historically terrible. i don't know about historically terrible, but even after this little uptick, they're still not good. I think my prediction of 75 wins is still in the right ballpark. Wisdom is not in rushing to claim you know. Wisdom is siezing the unknown and humbly and carefully shaving away the nonsense to find the knowable within . stop eating at chinese restaurants. the fortune cookies are getting to you.

Edgy DC Jun 09 2011 07:56 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

You're going to have to trust me then.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 14 2011 04:13 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Marty Noble weighs in. (But I think he dozed off while typing the last paragraph.) Reyes trade would impede Mets' recovery Shortstop could bring impressive haul, but value greatest in NY By Marty Noble / MLB.com NEW YORK -- As the Mets hover at or near .500, the chances of them finishing this thus-far schizophrenic season with Jose Reyes in their employ aren't half bad. Their mercurial shortstop has sped to the lead of the batting race and played his best baseball since 2006, forcing the club's GPS to recalculate. The Mets must determine his value and decide whether it is prudent to deal him for pieces of an unclear future. With little input from general manager Sandy Alderson, the rest of us concluded that Reyes would be joining the e-Mets -- erstwhile Mets -- at some point in July. The possibility existed for sure, but Alderson -- his poker face in a jar that he keeps by the door -- gave no indication of his leaning or whether he was leaning at all. This much we know: The general manager has witnessed such superlative performance for most of the team's 65 games that his perceptions of Reyes must have changed -- from whatever they were to something they were not. Again, we must speak vaguely because Alderson does. From this press-box perspective, Reyes, the Mets generally and Terry Collins unquestionably, have exceeded expectations. No Mets bandwagon has been built or occupied yet, and none should be at this point. The road separating the 32-33 record the team carries into its Monday night game against the Pirates and a 162-game record that represents genuine progress is long and potentially treacherous. But through all the injuries, growing pains, financial uncertainty and the general disorder inherited from the previous regime, a glimmer is visible. Perhaps these Dark Ages won't last quite as long as feared and won't be quite so dark. For every game David Wright and Ike Davis are unavailable, Ruben Tejada gains the best kind of experience -- on-the-job training. And for each inning Johan Santana misses, Dillon Gee polishes the notion that offspeed pitching works. And more conspicuously than any of that, Reyes, the ultimate triple threat, plays the game as if he embodies the skills of Rey Ordonez, Mookie Wilson and John Olerud, and the high-octane additive that fueled Wally Backman. He is a wonderful player again. His value to other clubs has seemingly increased; his value to the Mets has seemingly soared and added new elements to the "Do we deal him?" discussion. If Alderson and his band of vanguard evaluators see the performances of Tejada, Gee, Davis, Jon Niese, Josh Thole, Angel Pagan and Justin Turner as indications of genuine potential, and if they sense that Santana, Wright and Jason Bay can be the players they were, then the Mets are not the fourth-place contenders they appeared to be when Ollie Perez lockered among them. And Reyes can't be traded or allowed to leave. Davis, Tejada, Wright and Reyes make a nice infield, not great but certainly more than representative. As a foursome, they are young enough to have futures that extend beyond 2014, and enough differences in age exist among them that a four-at-once overhaul is unlikely. We don't yet know enough about Thole, Gee, Niese or Bobby Parnell. And to ask for all of them to reach their potential when Reyes, Wright, Santana and Bay are prospering is to ask for a encore of 1969. That summer was characterized as a Miracle. Moreover, we can't begin to know all the fiscal obstacles facing Alderson from the Wilpon family's diminished treasury. A future without Reyes would add to the obstacles. It will be a challenge with him. Going on without him -- notice it doesn't say moving forward without him -- seems implausible, a giant step backward for the sake of taking several smaller steps forward. The Mets could play for another 25 years and not have a player with such skills on their roster. Reyes, even more than Wright, is an attraction. The club ought to look to its past to see the impact of an attraction. The Mets have had precious few special attractions in their nearly 50 seasons -- Tom Seaver, Dave Kingman, Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Ordonez and Mike Piazza. Each of them provided a better-than-average chance for a spectators to see something extraordinary, something worth a dozen replays. Reyes warrants a place on that short list. In that regard, his value is greater to the Mets than to other clubs, even though his performance to date has to have enhanced his value to others. If the Reds had interest in mid-May, what do they think now? Imagine the Reds of Joey Votto, Jay Bruce and Brandon Phillips with a player as dynamic as Reyes added. How would the Mets read that added interest? What would their price be? How would other clubs regard Alderson's image of being an astute roster/payroll manager? No club wants to mortgage its future, even for a fleet, 28-year-old, switch-hitting shortstop with an exceptional arm, above average glove, untold and contagious energy and the ability to dominate an opponent. Perhaps none of that will develop. Perhaps the Mets will dismiss the notion of dealing the second-most-talented player -- to Strawberry -- they have developed and allow Reyes to be part, a focal point, of their next period of success. Perhaps the dynamo they know is...

The Second Spitter Jun 14 2011 04:53 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Gwreck wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't have all of the salaries at my fingertips, but I think there's a way to do the math that will make Jose affordable. Player 2011 Salary 2012 Salary Already Signed Santana $22.5M $24M Bay $16M $16M Wright $14M $15M Dickey $2.25M $4.25M Carrasco $1.2M $1.2M Arbitration Pelfrey $3.925M $5.5M (?) Pagan $3.5M $5M (?) Cheap Returnees Niese $.452M $.5M Parnell $.4335M $.475M Davis $.432M $.475M Murphy $.422M $.475M Thole $.42M $.475M Beato $.414M $.475M Gee $.4M $.45M Turner $.4M $.45M Possible Returnees/Would Need to Be Replaced Capuano or Extra Starter $1.5M $2M Paulino or Backup Catcher $1.35 $1.5M Hairston or Backup Outfielder $1.1M $1.25M Byrdak or Lefty $.9M $1.2M Harris or Backup $.8M $1M Not Returning Beltran $18.5M --- Igarashi $1.75M --- Young $1.1M --- Perez $12M --- Castillo $6M --- Matthews Jr. $1M --- Plus You'll Need To Fill Another 4-5 Spots --- $7M TOTALS $135.1485* $82.85M Which Leaves us to Consider Reyes $11M ??? Rodriguez $11.5M $17.5M *includes Reyes and Rodriguez Didn't see this before, but the ways you remind me of Doug Pappas is scary.

G-Fafif Jun 14 2011 05:19 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Marty Noble wrote: then the Mets are not the fourth-place contenders they appeared to be when Ollie Perez lockered among them. Marvelous phrasing. The Mets could play for another 25 years and not have a player with such skills on their roster. Struck me as exaggeration until I realized they've played 25 years and not had a player with such skills on their roster.

Frayed Knot Jun 14 2011 06:23 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Nice to see a writer say publicly - and right up top no less - that the inevitability of a mid-season Reyes trade has always been opinion passed off as fact even as it was never built on anything other than speculation.

Ashie62 Jun 14 2011 07:14 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Have the Mets breathed even a hint of what they may do about Reyes? the end of July is not that far off..

Ceetar Jun 14 2011 07:16 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ashie62 wrote: Have the Mets breathed even a hint of what they may do about Reyes? the end of July is not that far off.. I think Alderson said yesterday they haven't not gotten to the point of talking or something wit hthe agent, who's overseas atm?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 14 2011 07:32 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

My hunch is that they may get the ball rolling once the Einhorn money is official. (Hope there's no "setback" on that front!)

metirish Jun 14 2011 08:14 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Benjamin Grimm wrote: My hunch is that they may get the ball rolling once the Einhorn money is official. (Hope there's no "setback" on that front!) This deal should be official end of June right?

Ceetar Jun 14 2011 08:22 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

From a PR standpoint, how about Reyes just before the All-Star Game. Then on a national stage the Mets get talked about as being loyal to their fanbase, keeping one of the best players in the game, and on some level dispell some of the 'too broke to compete' stuff.

Edgy DC Jun 14 2011 08:56 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Trying to get maximum PR value out of a signing may be too much of an over-reach. ("Rawjah Clemens is on Jawge's box!") Getting it done for it's own sake is going to be hard enough.

G-Fafif Jun 14 2011 09:00 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: Trying to get maximum PR value out of a signing may be too much of an over-reach. ("Rawjah Clemens is in Jawge's box!") Too bad Rawjah isn't in Jawge's box right now.

metsmarathon Jun 14 2011 09:06 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

+1

metirish Jun 14 2011 09:15 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

G-Fafif wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Trying to get maximum PR value out of a signing may be too much of an over-reach. ("Rawjah Clemens is in Jawge's box!") Too bad Rawjah isn't in Jawge's box right now. damn .....lol

Ashie62 Jun 14 2011 09:20 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

That is hilarious!!!! I'm hoping Einhorn squeezes Wilpon before signing the paper and says "Oh, this is predicated on making a real offer to Jose."

Ceetar Jun 14 2011 09:21 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: Trying to get maximum PR value out of a signing may be too much of an over-reach. ("Rawjah Clemens is on Jawge's box!") Getting it done for it's own sake is going to be hard enough. True. I just mean getting it done by the All-Star Game though, so we dont' have to sit through the trade rumors at the game whenever Reyes gets cozy with another star.

attgig Jun 14 2011 09:46 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Gwreck wrote: Player 2011 Salary 2012 Salary Already Signed Santana $22.5M $24M Bay $16M $16M Wright $14M $15M Dickey $2.25M $4.25M Carrasco $1.2M $1.2M Arbitration Pelfrey $3.925M $5.5M (?) Pagan $3.5M $5M (?) Cheap Returnees Niese $.452M $.5M Parnell $.4335M $.475M Davis $.432M $.475M Murphy $.422M $.475M Thole $.42M $.475M Beato $.414M $.475M Gee $.4M $.45M Turner $.4M $.45M Possible Returnees/Would Need to Be Replaced Capuano or Extra Starter $1.5M $2M Paulino or Backup Catcher $1.35 $1.5M Hairston or Backup Outfielder $1.1M $1.25M Byrdak or Lefty $.9M $1.2M Harris or Backup $.8M $1M Not Returning Beltran $18.5M --- Igarashi $1.75M --- Young $1.1M --- Perez $12M --- Castillo $6M --- Matthews Jr. $1M --- Plus You'll Need To Fill Another 4-5 Spots --- $7M TOTALS $135.1485* $82.85M Which Leaves us to Consider Reyes $11M ??? Rodriguez $11.5M $17.5M *includes Reyes and Rodriguez interesting in that they can still sign krod, and still be at 100mil. I always assumed krod would take us to the max budget.

attgig Jun 14 2011 09:47 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

TransMonk wrote: Affordable Jose in 2012 is one thing, affordable Jose in 2016 or beyond is another...especially when we're having this same conversation about Wright in a year or so. I'm not saying they can't afford him...I'm just saying it's not quite as simple as estimating a budget for next year. I want him back like everyone else, but it certainly isn't as black and white as the figures above. I'm glad in 2016, we won't be paying santana nor bay. that'll make jose and wright more affordable... it really is about 2012, and 2013. 2014, they're both off the books (buyouts i believe)

G-Fafif Jun 14 2011 06:36 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't trade Reyes.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 14 2011 06:50 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Yeah, I don't think we should trade this guy.

metirish Jun 14 2011 06:53 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

At this stage if he doesn't get three every night it's a bad night. Don't trade Reyes

Ceetar Jun 14 2011 07:58 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

G-Fafif wrote: Don't trade Reyes.

TransMonk Jun 15 2011 07:19 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Yeah...don't trade him.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 15 2011 07:22 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'm inclined to agree, but Steve Rogers' contrary opinion gives me pause... After all, when was the last time he was wrong about anything?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 15 2011 07:53 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Quick, nobody read Tim Smith's idiotic column in the Snooze today.

TransMonk Jun 15 2011 07:55 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Yuck!

holychicken Jun 15 2011 08:25 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Trade Reyes already while his value is still pretty high, DAMNIT! I mean, seriously, the Blue Jays should do this before Jo-Jo's value drops too much.

metirish Jun 15 2011 08:27 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Quick, nobody read Tim Smith's idiotic column in the Snooze today. Jesus wept , For 15 days (or more depending upon the healing of the ailing calf) the Yankees will get an idea of what it's like not to have Jeter at short. It's the Ghost of Yankees future. Perish the thought, some would say. you sir are an idiot. Moving Jeter out at shortstop will be harder than trying to confiscate Superman's cape. Convincing him that the best course of action was going on the 15-day DL to let his calf muscle heal rather than trying to rest it for a week and come back and play was a piece of cake by comparison. but I thought Jeter was all about the team?

holychicken Jun 15 2011 08:30 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Quick, nobody read Tim Smith's idiotic column in the Snooze today. "He was placed on the 15-day DL, which puts on hold his assault on 3,000 hits." "Jeter - who struggled at the plate out of the gate - is now limping toward the 3,000-hit milestone." Ah, I see. . . it's the old time-honored limping assault!

MFS62 Jun 15 2011 09:16 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

If he had any guts, and it was all about the team, he should have moved to third and let A-Rod play short when he joined the team. Oh, and don't trade Reyes. Later

soupcan Jun 15 2011 10:00 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't trade Reyes....!

TheOldMole Jun 15 2011 03:13 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't trade Reyes.

TransMonk Jun 15 2011 03:15 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

No comercio Reyes!

G-Fafif Jun 15 2011 03:16 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Don't trade the most dynamic, most exciting, perhaps best player in baseball. Ah, what kind of idiot organization would do that?

seawolf17 Jun 15 2011 03:17 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Holy hell, people. NOBODY IS EFFING TRADING JOSE REYES. Okay?

G-Fafif Jun 15 2011 03:24 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: Holy hell, people. NOBODY IS EFFING TRADING JOSE REYES. Okay? Whew! That's a relief.

Rockin' Doc Jun 15 2011 04:34 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: Holy hell, people. NOBODY IS EFFING TRADING JOSE REYES. Okay? I hope you're right, but I think you are giving the Mets ownership too much credit.

Ashie62 Jun 15 2011 06:16 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ask Einhorn. He has 5 weeks to make up his mind.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 15 2011 06:35 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Just don't.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 15 2011 06:36 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'm starting to think trading Reyes might not be a great idea.

soupcan Jun 15 2011 07:02 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ashie62 wrote: Ask Einhorn. He has 5 weeks to make up his mind. You know, it's not so far-fetched to think that it may behoove Einhorn to support a trade. The guy wants to be the majority owner. The path to ownership for him is dependent on the current ownership not being able to afford the team and/or be able to return his $200,000,000.00. If Reyes stays, it would stand to reason that the team would be more successful than if he leaves. More successful team = more revenue for current ownership = higher probability that they can pay him back = no majority ownership for Einhorn. Now the flipside could be that Einhorn thinks the Wilpon/Katzes are going to come out on the short end of Picard's lawsuit anyway and reaping the benefits of that, having a player like Reyes on HIS team would be a favorable thing. Just saying that we, as fans, should not assume that Einhorn is Jose's (and our) white knight

Ceetar Jun 15 2011 07:48 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

soupcan wrote: Ashie62 wrote: Ask Einhorn. He has 5 weeks to make up his mind. You know, it's not so far-fetched to think that it may behoove Einhorn to support a trade. The guy wants to be the majority owner. The path to ownership for him is dependent on the current ownership not being able to afford the team and/or be able to return his $200,000,000.00. If Reyes stays, it would stand to reason that the team would be more successful than if he leaves. More successful team = more revenue for current ownership = higher probability that they can pay him back = no majority ownership for Einhorn. Now the flipside could be that Einhorn thinks the Wilpon/Katzes are going to come out on the short end of Picard's lawsuit anyway and reaping the benefits of that, having a player like Reyes on HIS team would be a favorable thing. Just saying that we, as fans, should not assume that Einhorn is Jose's (and our) white knight eh. if that's the case it behooves the Wilpons to keep him. And Einhorn has no say.

soupcan Jun 15 2011 08:00 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ceetar wrote: eh. if that's the case it behooves the Wilpons to keep him. And Einhorn has no say. You're forgetting that the Wilpons may not be able to keep him.

Ceetar Jun 15 2011 08:03 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

soupcan wrote: Ceetar wrote: eh. if that's the case it behooves the Wilpons to keep him. And Einhorn has no say. You're forgetting that the Wilpons may not be able to keep him. Then they should just sell now. But 200million wasn't a random number, it was factored in based on budget.

Edgy DC Jun 16 2011 07:29 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

There's a lot of over-thinking going on.

TransMonk Jun 16 2011 09:16 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

From Metsblog, via the FAN's interview with Alderson this morning: He spoke about the future of Jose Reyes, and said he intends to reach out to his agents soon. He is aware of the fan sentiment regarding Reyes and acknowledged that has an effect on these kinds of decisions. However, while Reyes has expressed his loyalty to the Mets and the fans, he doesn’t know if Reyes intends to test free agency this winter.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 16 2011 09:35 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

From Metsblog, via the FAN's interview with Alderson this morning: He spoke about the future of Jose Reyes, and said he intends to reach out to his agents soon. He is aware of the fan sentiment regarding Reyes and acknowledged that has an effect on these kinds of decisions. However, while Reyes has expressed his loyalty to the Mets and the fans, he doesn’t know if Reyes intends to test free agency this winter. I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't go FA.

Ceetar Jun 16 2011 09:50 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

From Metsblog, via the FAN's interview with Alderson this morning: He spoke about the future of Jose Reyes, and said he intends to reach out to his agents soon. He is aware of the fan sentiment regarding Reyes and acknowledged that has an effect on these kinds of decisions. However, while Reyes has expressed his loyalty to the Mets and the fans, he doesn’t know if Reyes intends to test free agency this winter. I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't go FA. We'll see. This means Alderson hasn't actually offered him an opportunity not to test them. give him something that works 5/6 with option years and what not and maybe he won't test free agency.

TransMonk Jun 16 2011 09:58 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I agree...I think he's gonna test the market. Why wouldn't he? But still, I don't think he should be traded.

Ceetar Jun 16 2011 10:08 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

TransMonk wrote: I agree...I think he's gonna test the market. Why wouldn't he? But still, I don't think he should be traded. Because he wants to stay and they come to an agreement that makes him plenty happy? They get the MTA to name the 7 Express train after him?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2011 10:57 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Mike Piazza never tested free agency in 1998. And he came a lot closer than Jose Reyes is now. (He was just a week or two away.)

TransMonk Jun 16 2011 11:04 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I don't think Piazza gave the Mets a discount, the Mets gave him pretty much what he wanted...right? I suppose Reyes could sign and be done with it...but I think he'd at least like to see what he's worth this winter.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 16 2011 11:14 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Mike Piazza never tested free agency in 1998. And he came a lot closer than Jose Reyes is now. (He was just a week or two away.) Piazza was during the season? My brain in all mush. Still think Reyes goes FA. This is his 1 big pay-day shot & I'm not sure even he knows what he can get at this point.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 16 2011 11:20 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Piazza was following the season, but shortly before open-season on FA began. I'd be very surprised if JoseJose doesn't go past that date, just to see what he could earn. Why not?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2011 11:21 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

No, Piazza signed during that period between the end of the season and the time he was permitted to talk to other teams. I think it was while the playoffs were going on. My point in bringing that up is that not all players take the free agency plunge, even if they're only days away from being eligible. We can say, "Of course Reyes will test the market! Why wouldn't he?" And the answer could be the same reason (whatever it was) that Mike Piazza didn't test the market. (And many other players as well, I'm sure. Piazza is the one that comes first to mind for me.)

Frayed Knot Jun 16 2011 11:30 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I remember the year Mark McGwire was traded to StL and how everyone knew it was just a rental because he was going to play out the season then run back to the west coast so he could be with his son and all that stuff. And then he wound up signing with the Cards before the season even ended. IIRC, the home-team "window" where a team has exclusive rights to their own FAs at the end of the year is shorter now than the two weeks or so that it used to be.

TransMonk Jun 16 2011 12:26 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Mike Piazza didn't test the market because the Mets offered him a then record-breaking 7 year $91M deal.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 16 2011 12:35 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Yeah, but he could have waited two or three weeks to see what other teams were offering.

TransMonk Jun 16 2011 12:49 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I guess...I'm just saying that the Mets aren't exactly going to be offering Reyes a 7 year $145M deal off the bat. Will he take 5/$90M (WAG) if he think he can get more...especially where the years are concerned? Piazza was being offered 7 years back when those types of deals were rare to none.

Vic Sage Jun 16 2011 01:16 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

why don't we offer him Piazza's deal? It worked once...

A Boy Named Seo Jun 16 2011 05:54 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Bloop triple? Maybe don't trade him.

Ceetar Jun 16 2011 07:13 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Bloop triple? Maybe don't trade him. and Oh No! In year 6 that might've only been a bloop double!

Elster88 Jun 16 2011 08:13 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I actually am enjoying his great season a little less because I don't think he'll be on the team next year. I feel like a greasy WFAN caller.

Ceetar Jun 16 2011 09:36 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

on pace for 234 hits.

metirish Jun 17 2011 09:40 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Scott Boras courting Reyes http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/new- ... dar-061711

Ceetar Jun 18 2011 06:32 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

metirish wrote: Scott Boras courting Reyes http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/new- ... dar-061711 I can kinda picture Boras following Reyes around drooling.

Ashie62 Jun 18 2011 08:22 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

42 days til the deadline. We do NOT need an extended Mets losing streak.

metirish Jun 18 2011 10:11 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Can't wait to see the book Boras has made up for Reyes.

A Boy Named Seo Jun 18 2011 10:23 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

"You say his hat is 2 big?? He needs that big hat to house his giant, smart ballplayer's brain. You gotta pay extra for that." "What, he dances all crazy?! Jeff, that's entertainment value. It's like Salsa night at the park every night. Or Samba. Whatever. But it ain't free."

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 18 2011 03:46 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

"Thanks, but no thanks." “No chance,” Reyes said, about the possibility of switching agents. “We talked a couple of times on the phone. He’s always tried to get me since the minor leagues, but like I said, I’m happy with my agents.”

TransMonk Jun 18 2011 04:41 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

That's a good thing. If he had switched to Boras, my hope that he would return next season would have given up the ghost.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2011 08:38 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

True dat.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 18 2011 09:13 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

The Franchise talks. "Unless you have a game plan to go in a different direction, you can't get rid of him. He's too good," Seaver said on Saturday evening. Seaver made it clear that he was not advocating for the Mets to sign Reyes or let him go. He simply stated that the Mets need to be prepared to deal with the loss of a player of Reyes' caliber... Seaver views Reyes as a player "you build around." If the Mets don't re-sign Reyes, Seaver wondered, "What are you going to replace him with?" "If you're trading the franchise player ... you are in a regroup mode. I'm not saying rebuilding mode, but you're in a regroup mode," said Seaver, who was on hand Saturday in support of Bring Change2Mind, a mental health awareness group. "The people that they have now are too smart not to have a plan to regroup (if they don't retain Reyes)," Seaver added. Feel free to sub "rebuild, but with David Wright and Johan contractually obligated to stick around" for "regroup."

bmfc1 Jun 19 2011 06:48 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I will summarize Joel Sherman's column from today: The Mets are damned if they do and damned if they don't. http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/for ... MUjUbedMtJ

TheOldMole Jun 19 2011 07:21 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

No, they're only damned if they do.

themetfairy Jun 19 2011 11:57 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

N'echangez pas Jose!

Ashie62 Jun 19 2011 06:35 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

How about getting over .500 for a few games to at least help to keep Jose here.

attgig Jun 20 2011 11:02 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?conte ... 081241&v=3 http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... m&c_id=mlb nice little article about the man's 3baggers. NEW YORK -- It takes 11 seconds. The game's leading hitter, Jose Reyes, crushes a baseball. One. He watches it fly Two, three. Down goes his head as he rounds first base. Four. By this point, he is moving, really moving, still accelerating. Five. Now he's flying. Six, seven. He's rounding second base now, heading for third. Eight. In comes the throw. Nine. In comes Reyes, headfirst to the bag. Ten. Bang, bang. Safe. Eleven. Then Reyes pops up from third base, claps his batting gloves together and raises his right arm over his head. Some of the three dozen Mets players and coaches in his dugout -- many of them tenants of the top step before the ball even lands -- salute him in kind. It is a triple. It is a high-speed car chase. It is one of the most exciting plays in baseball, courtesy one of its most exciting players. It is getting ridiculous. "He's hit so many triples," teammate Willie Harris said, "to the point where it's raising questions." * * * Twelve times this season, Reyes has tripled. Twelve times he has performed his headline act, buzzing around the bases in approximately 11 seconds. In what could ultimately become his final half-season with the Mets, Reyes is submitting one of the most remarkable half-seasons in franchise history, transcending the usual level of superstar and entering that rare echelon above. Leading the National League in hits (103), batting average (.341) and multi-hit games (35, more than any shortstop at this point of the season since 1920), Reyes has drawn the most attention for his triples -- and for good reason. He is on pace for 27 of them, which would rank seventh in Major League history and place him among the league's foremost triples hitters since the end of the dead-ball era. Since 1926, no Major Leaguer has hit more than 23 triples in a season. Since 1950, only two -- Curtis Granderson for the Tigers in 2007 and Lance Johnson for the Mets in 1996 -- have hit more than 20. Reyes is threatening those standards in part due to transcendental skills, in part due to his home ballpark and in part due to chance. "The funny thing about triples is they just kind of happen," said Granderson, who hit 23 of them in 2007 but no more than 13 in any other season. "There's nothing you can do mechanically to go ahead and hit a triple." The only thing a hitter can control, Granderson said, is his baserunning effort -- and Reyes already maximizes that with regularity, leading Mets general manager Sandy Alderson to note: "I wouldn't call anything he does an aberration." Instead, Reyes makes his own luck, as the adage goes. Consider his most recent triple. Shooting a low fly ball to shallow center field in Atlanta on Thursday, Reyes watched the ball glance off center fielder Jordan Schafer's glove and fall to the grass. Though the ball came to rest mere feet from the spot of Schafer's dive, Reyes never slowed, accelerating past second base and on to third. Unable to slap Schafer with an error, Turner Field's official scorer ruled it a triple. Mostly, though, Reyes' three-base hits have emerged from a different -- and rather consistent -- mold. Batting left-handed, Reyes shoots a ball into Citi Field's right-center field gap, between two outfielders. He begins thinking triple when he rounds first base, usually arriving at third base several seconds later without much issue. "With the kind of speed that I have, I know that I'm going to make it there easy," Reyes said, "no matter how hard I hit the ball." Throughout his career, Reyes can recall only one attempted triple that went awry, when Alfonso Soriano, then with the Nationals, gunned him down in 2006. At the time, it appeared as though Reyes would develop into a perennial 20-triple threat, using both his speed and Shea Stadium's spacious outfield gaps to his advantage. However, after he tripled 19 times in 2008, injuries began to hamper him, preventing him from exploiting the even more generous dimensions of his new home park. Reyes found himself unable to take advantage of Citi Field in the same way that Granderson abused Comerica Park back in 2007. Until now. * * * From every last brick to every last blade of grass, Citi Field has always been uniquely suited to Reyes. Its outfield gaps rank among the largest in baseball, extending from the 408-foot mark in dead center field to 415 feet in right-center. Just as the park has frustrated right-handed power hitters such as David Wright and Jason Bay, taunting them with its oversized dimensions, it has beckoned Reyes with its promise of triples. In many ways, Citi Field is anomalous, given its high walls and quirky outfield dimensions. And that has certainly played a role in the frequency of Reyes' triples, not only allowing a greater percentage of them to fall safely on the outfield grass, but also ensuring that only a few of his line drives will clear the fence for homers. Indeed, Reyes is hitting home runs less than one percent of the time, the lowest rate of his nine-year career. His rate of home-runs-per-fly-balls is below three percent for the first time since 2004, when he owned a skinnier body and lacked his current pop. Most of the shortstop's other offensive ratios currently fall in line with his career norms, save one: he is striking out significantly less often than ever before. That has allowed him to put more balls in play, which in turn has translated into more triples. As in most areas of the game, some of that is due to luck and will level out over time. Some is due to Reyes' otherworldly run at the plate. And some is due to Citi Field, which harkens back to older stadiums with more spacious -- and, in some cases seemingly limitless -- dimensions. Though there is no sure way to measure a ballpark's ability to produce triples, ESPN offers an attempt with its "Park Factor" index, which quantifies stadium tendencies by comparing a team's power-hitting statistics at home and on the road. Citi Field ranks sixth in its triples factor this season, no doubt in large part due to Reyes. It was also sixth last season and seventh in 2009, consistently ranking behind Coors Field in Colorado (which, contrary to popular perception, boasts larger dimensions than those of Citi). In Granderson's view, ballparks do play a significant role. Whereas Comerica's deep gaps and ample foul ground once gave Granderson time to run the bases, Yankee Stadium has afforded him no such luxuries. As a result, Granderson hit merely seven triples last season, his first in New York. But ballparks aren't everything. Alderson calls his shortstop's stadium splits a "casual correlation" and Reyes understands that Citi has helped to some extent. Still, he is not sold on the magnitude of its influence, dismissing the fact that 10 of his 12 triples have been hit at home. "It does not matter where I play," Reyes said. "It's nothing to do with the ballpark because anywhere that I put it in the gap, I'm going to try to make it to third base." Even so, Reyes' snug fit in Queens is something worth noting from a front-office perspective. Just as the Yankees have traditionally loaded up on left-handed sluggers, the Mets have made pitching and left-handed hitting their priorities, catering to the park in which they play. Their two most prominent free-agent acquisitions last winter were fly-ball pitchers, and their first 14 selections in this month's First-Year Player Draft were either pitchers, left-handed hitters or switch-hitters. Presumably, catering to Citi Field would also mean considering Reyes when deciding whether or not to move back or scale down the outfield fences -- a perennial discussion since the ballpark's opening in 2009. Talks have again taken place this year, but Alderson said that team officials have not specifically mentioned Reyes in their discussions. Some part of that may be a reflection of uncertainty. * * * At least lately, no review of Reyes seems complete without a prognostication of his future. Given the shortstop's impending free agency, many around the team believe there is little chance he will still be with the Mets come August; others think he will at least last the season. Either way, whisking Reyes from Citi Field would mean supplanting a generational talent from a ballpark uniquely suited to his abilities. Other stadiums around the league, such as Comerica, Coors Field and AT&T Park in San Francisco, could have similar effects, but Reyes admits he has grown comfortable at Citi -- he's hitting .375 at home this season. It is in Queens, after all, where he has launched most of his triples, his 11-second fluorescent highlights. Unlike home runs, which create a sudden and impulsive frenzy, triples crescendo. The crowd begins to buzz on contact, increasing its volume as Reyes rounds second. By that time, the line between fans and teammates often blurs. "There's nothing better," Mets outfielder Angel Pagan said, "than seeing a fast guy run fast." In terms of sheer excitement, Reyes said, triples can be more thrilling than home runs, more exhilarating than stolen bases, more stirring than nearly any other play in baseball. "A triple's exciting, man," Reyes said. "People love it. And I love it, too." The 11 seconds of a triple, he knows, can define reputations, contracts and careers. For Reyes, those 11 seconds may have the power to do all three. he would be at 13 if not for the blown call on april 27th. http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?conte ... 238339&v=3

Ashie62 Jun 20 2011 02:24 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Chicks dig the stand up Triple.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 20 2011 03:00 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Allen Barra chimes in: Jose Reyes: A Franchise Player the Mets Can't Possibly Replace? By Allen Barra Mon., Jun. 20 2011 at 2:40 PM ?Judging from the enthusiasm being displayed on the radio call-in shows, Mets fans may be putting a little too much stock in Jose Reyes' resounding statement on Friday that he's not going to go with Scott Boras as his agent in upcoming contract negotiations. That is, if they are assuming that because he's not signing with Boras, he's going to remain a Met. Yes, players have made promises in the past and then switched agents, but I don't recall any being quite as emphatic as Reyes: "No chance. I am happy with my agent." That's because he knows his agent, Peter E. Greenberg, is very good and has had much more experience dealing with the Wilpons than Boras has. Reyes is also smart enough to understand that it's the attractiveness of the client that makes for the deal, not the agent. Or simply put, Jose knows that given the kind of year he's having and considering the sparseness of available talent at perhaps the game's key defensive position, he brings a lot to the table for negotiations with any team. In fact, he brings much more to the Mets' table than they're likely going to want to deal with. There's been some recent talk of the Mets signing Reyes for a second straight three-year contract extension before the July 31 trade deadline -- or even before the end of the season -- but as Tyler Kepner puts it in Saturday's New York Times, "The Mets may stay close enough to contention that they will keep Reyes ... But even if they offered Reyes a new contract before the end of the season, why would he accept? Why, indeed. How can Reyes possibly find out what he's worth if he doesn't wait until he's a free agent and all interested parties -- i.e., the Angels, Red Sox, Yankees (whom I still insist could shock everyone on this) or possibly even the Brewers, who, though they don't have the revenue of a "big market" team, may have enough to put in a bid for the one player who could put them over the top. (And some are making the same argument for the Rays.) What has changed in the past few weeks about the Mets financial situation that would suddenly make Fred Wilpon eat his words and decide that Jose is worth (as he told the New Yorker a few weeks ago) Carl Crawford money. (Crawford signed a seven-year, $142 mil deal with the Red Sox last winter.) There's something else for the Mets front office to think about. In Sunday's Daily News, Tim Smith spoke to the Mets' all-time greatest franchise player, Tom Seaver -- whom, lest we forget, they allowed to depart New York. (Tom Terrific was in town for Mets-Angels.) Seaver compared Reyes to two of the old Big Red Machine's major stars, Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan: "He's that level of player, but what are you gonna replace him with?" Well, I dunno, Two weeks ago Reyes was having a fine season, but he wasn't leading the National League in hitting and nobody was comparing him to Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan (though I think for much if [sic] his career he's been at or near their level). What a difference a hot dozen or so games and 20 points on your batting average can make. The point is this: Who says the Mets are really serious about having any "franchise player" at all? What are the indications that they're serious about even having a franchise? If they are in as deep a financial hole as they appear to be, they're not going to be bidding for any other free agents besides Reyes, which means, given the apparent dearth of minor league prospects, they plan on taking two or three years off before they really think about building a contender. Why then would Jose want to stick around on a mediocre team that has little chance of making the playoffs even if the Mets did meet his asking price? "The Mets," writes Smith, "have to decide whether their championship hopes rest with Reyes or the pieces they can assemble without him." I'd say that's putting it all too grandly. I'd say what the Mets have to do first is decide whether they really have any "championship hopes" with or without Reyes. If the Mets are serious about being contenders any time in the next three-four years, then there isn't any question that they had better make every effort to convince Jose Reyes that Carl Crawford is soon going to be wishing he was getting Jose Reyes money.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 20 2011 03:09 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Here's an overlooked category that Reyes has been leading the league in for most of this season: The media should take note.

Edgy DC Jun 20 2011 03:15 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

There's a lot of dubious stuff and opinion stated as fact in there. "Judging from the enthusiasm being displayed on the radio call-in shows...." There's a weak lede. "...the sparseness of available talent at perhaps the game's key defensive position...." Is it any more sparse than anywhere else? He's having an MVP year, so he's be a catch at any position. And what's with "perhaps"? Almost no study would conclude that shortstop trumps catcher in defensive contributions. "How can Reyes possibly find out what he's worth if he doesn't wait until he's a free agent and all interested parties -- i.e., the Angels, Red Sox, Yankees (whom I still insist could shock everyone on this)...." Why would anyone (much less "everyone") be shocked that the Yankees would pursue a very good player in the midst of a career season? As for the Seaver thing, his full comment was not to deal him without a plan to go forward. Well, sure. And I'm sure the Mets will have a plan and they'll convince themselves it's a solid one even if they have to delude themselves. "Why then would Jose want to stick around on a mediocre team that has little chance of making the playoffs even if the Mets did meet his asking price?" Come on. Really, Allen? Barra has written some great stuff (thank you, Village Voice), but this is just tabloid trade deadline slavering. Hype mongering.

Ceetar Jun 20 2011 05:31 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

True, but still, any article raving about Reyes is at least not completely worthless.

attgig Jun 21 2011 02:15 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

wow, front page of cnn.com in the list of latest news is a link: - Most compelling everyday MLB star SI leads me to: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... ?hpt=hp_t2 Reyes just what game, and Mets, need but his future is a mystery At a time when baseball has a shortage of compelling players -- you'd have to get through Justin Verlander, Tim Lincecum, Roy Halladay and Brian Wilson before you found such an everyday player -- shortstop Jose Reyes of the New York Mets has emerged as exactly what the game needs: equal parts excitement and mystery. The excitement is easy to see. Reyes leads the National League in batting, hits, triples and runs and is second in stolen bases -- making him the poster player in this age when offense and slugging have been rolled back to levels not seen in almost two decades. The mystery of Reyes is what makes him the most compelling position player in the game. Will he be traded? Can the Mets afford to re-sign him? Can they afford not to re-sign him? And, most intriguing of all, is he really this good? What we're watching is the right player at the right time just now entering his prime and playing at full health. But keep this in mind, too: Reyes is 28, will reach 1,000 games played next week, gets on base over his career at a rate barely better than the league average (.339-.336) and has played 140 games in a season just four times. After a great body of work to judge him, he suddenly seems so much more valuable because of a ridiculously hot stretch of 23 games in which he has put up a slash line of .402/.431/.637. And every night he seems to be standing on third base before you can blink. "Right now he's like [Barry] Bonds or [Albert] Pujols when those guys are hot," said one scout after filing his report on Reyes and the Mets. "You basically have to avoid him whenever you can, because he's on absolutely everything. It doesn't matter what you throw him. "He's healthy and really focused right now. [Manager] Terry Collins deserves a lot of credit for having that team play hard. Carlos Beltran is playing hard. He's played himself into a valuable trade chip. And Reyes is playing as hard as anyone." What every team must decide is whether this is just the beginning of his greatness that will be worth more than $100 million, or a window of heightened performance and focus fostered by playing in a contract year. Is he Jimmy Rollins, a championship shortstop with an MVP in his near future, or another J.D. Drew, Adrian Beltre or A.J. Burnett, with his best baseball coming in a salary drive? The first team that must make that determination is his own, with New York general manager Sandy Alderson making the final call. "People keep saying, 'You have to trade him, you have to trade him,"' said one club source. "That's not the case at all. Sandy really only now is getting to know the person and the player. I'm sure there will come a point where we sit down and see what Jose wants. But there's nothing that says we won't try to keep the guy." As it happened, Reyes took his game to another level once owner Fred Wilpon was quoted in The New Yorker saying that Reyes won't get Carl Crawford money. The Red Sox gave Crawford $142 million over seven years last offseason. Said one NL executive, "Crawford wasn't worth that money, but he was worth that money to the Red Sox. It's Red Sox money. It's only a matter of one team deciding what a player is worth." Reyes has an argument to seek Crawford money. At 28, he is one year younger than when Crawford hit free agency and, unlike Crawford, he plays a premium position in the middle of the field. Otherwise, they are similar players. Take a look at how Reyes' career numbers today compare to those of Crawford as a free agent last year: Player Age BA/OBP/SLG OPS G R Crawford 29 .296/.337/.444 .781 1235 765 Reyes 28 .290/.339/.440 .779 993 688 There is only one scenario in which the Mets trade Reyes, and that is an overwhelming offer that is too good to pass up. The Mets have studied how the Red Sox have turned free-agent losses into draft picks (Pedro Martinez into Clay Buchholz, for instance) and to move Reyes would take nothing less than three top prospects, including one no-doubt first-round talent that is already major league ready. The Mets stand just five games out of the wild card. Their attendance is down 13 percent, representing a loss of 4,233 fans per game -- the biggest decline in baseball except for the Los Angeles Dodgers. New York still has 33 home games to play after the July 31 trade deadline -- 41 percent of its gates. At a time when the cash-poor Wilpon is heavily dependent on gate receipts, can he afford to trade his best and most exciting player? There are two teams that play out of ballparks that influence every personnel decision from the draft all the way to the major league roster: the Padres and Mets. New York has to build a team around athletic players who can cover ground and don't rely on hitting flyballs. In short, it needs players just like Reyes. He is a career .320 hitter at Citi Field with a .375 OBP and .498 slugging percentage there in 123 games. In fact, Reyes has a higher slugging percentage at Citi Field than teammate David Wright, with nearly as many triples (18) as Wright has home runs (21). The minute the Mets lose Reyes, if they don't re-sign him, is the minute they start searching for someone exactly like Reyes to replace him. "I think they'll look at doing what they can to keep him," the scout said. "And if that's the case, then the guys they could trade are David Wright and Mike Pelfrey. I like Wright and he still has value. He's just beaten down by everything that's happened with that franchise and by the ballpark. He'll be a better player somewhere else." The Mets plan to spend between $100 million and $120 million on payroll in each of the next three years -- a cutback between 15 and 25 percent -- so re-signing Reyes would cause some roster pruning. That's one risk associated with keeping him. Another risk would be paying a speed player great sums of guaranteed money through about age 34. The Mets would be banking on Reyes keeping his legs healthy -- the key to his value. Remember, the Cubs gave Alfonso Soriano $136 million before the 2007 season under the evaluation that he could play center field and steal bases in addition to providing power. He quickly devolved into a poor defensive corner outfielder who stopped stealing bases. The market for Reyes is bound to be a good one. The Giants could be a stealth player, with $21 million coming off the payroll this year (but Lincecum due for a big raise) and the Barry Zito contract coming off after 2013. The Tigers, Orioles, Twins, Mariners, Angels, Reds, Nationals, Cardinals and Brewers all will have money to spend. At some point next month the Mets are likely to engage Reyes in discussions, if only to gauge his interest in remaining with the club as weighed against the chance to shop his services. Meanwhile, they get to watch him for another six weeks -- does he stay healthy? Does he continue to hit 54 points above his lifetime average? -- and wait for other clubs to approach them about possible trades. The Mets are under no pressure to trade Reyes. The pressure comes from whether they want to make a leadoff hitter their franchise player, and just how much of a cost that commitment will require. didn't expect Reyes to be off the first page of cnn.com

Edgy DC Jun 21 2011 02:17 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

"Right now he's like [Barry] Bonds or [Albert] Pujols when those guys are hot," said one scout after filing his report on Reyes and the Mets. "You basically have to avoid him whenever you can, because he's on absolutely everything. It doesn't matter what you throw him." Now, slow down, sailor.

attgig Jun 21 2011 02:30 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

just noticed this part: "He's healthy and really focused right now. [Manager] Terry Collins deserves a lot of credit for having that team play hard. Carlos Beltran is playing hard. He's played himself into a valuable trade chip. And Reyes is playing as hard as anyone."

Ceetar Jun 21 2011 02:36 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

a lot of misinformation in there. the payroll quotes. That Reyes has only been really good for 27 games. That it started when the Wilpon article came out. Cites 'only 4' seasons of over 140 (and it's over 153) games like he's hurt more often than not but really that's 4/7 and last year he played 133 and would've probably hit 140 except for a weird health thing and a mismanaged injury by his dope of a manager.

Edgy DC Jun 21 2011 02:39 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Well, it's Verducci.

metirish Jun 21 2011 02:56 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

@AdamRubinESPN Adam Rubin Mets announce they approached Reyes' agent. Reyes said he's not interested talking in-season.

metirish Jun 21 2011 03:02 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

David Waldstein Mets were prepared to make an offer to Reyes, but Reyes agents said not to

Benjamin Grimm Jun 21 2011 03:04 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ooooooh, SNAP! I'm not rooting for this, but wouldn't it be something if he pulled a hammy tonight and missed the next seven weeks? Would that be irony? (I'm not quite sure.)

TransMonk Jun 21 2011 03:05 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Trade that money-grubbing bum!!!

metirish Jun 21 2011 03:06 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ooooooh, SNAP! I'm not rooting for this, but wouldn't it be something if he pulled a hammy tonight and missed the next seven weeks? Would that be irony? (I'm not quite sure.) I had similar thoughts No surprise here as Reyes said it in ST that he wouldn't talk contract during season, no surprise but a little more hope gone all the same.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 21 2011 03:20 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I imagine the Mets let this be known to soften the blow in the event he gets dealt in a few weeks -- that, and maybe to stop getting asked about the contract every damn day. No surprises here, right? I mean, he's still gonna go where they pay him most.

metirish Jun 21 2011 03:23 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

No doubt Bucket " hey , we had a GREAT deal on the table and well Jose and his people didn't wanna see it, we tried"

TransMonk Jun 21 2011 03:25 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

All the Mets can do is try...which they did and they will...but they will most likely be out-bid. I'm still opposed to trading him unless we get value back...otherwise, I'm all for the 50 doubles, 20 triples, 50 steals ride for 2011 and the two draft picks. That said...my optimism for him returning in 2012 is all but gone.

attgig Jun 21 2011 03:26 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

i wonder if he would keep that stance if there was a trade. ie, trade, pending a 2 day negotiating window btw the new team and reyes.

TransMonk Jun 21 2011 03:35 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

metsblog wrote: ...according to Dunn, Reyes said once again he wants to finish his career with the Mets – he just doesn’t want any distractions during the season. Isn't this a distraction every single day? What exactly does he have to negotiate? He's got an agent. If he were to sign an extention, the distration would go away.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 21 2011 03:37 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

That's how I see it too. The agent talks to the club, and he either comes to Jose and says "We have a deal" or he doesn't?

Ceetar Jun 21 2011 04:12 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

...according to Dunn, Reyes said once again he wants to finish his career with the Mets – he just doesn’t want any distractions during the season. Isn't this a distraction every single day? What exactly does he have to negotiate? He's got an agent. If he were to sign an extention, the distration would go away. Monday: Martino: "Hey Reyes, how are the negotiations coming?" Tuesday: Rubin: "Hey Reyes, how are the negotiations coming?" Agent: "Hey Jose, Alderson's floating the idea of an option year based on games played from 2015-2017. What do you think?" Wednesday: "Martino: "Reyes, do you think you'll sign with the Mets by the All-Star Break?" Agent: "Alderson seems open to the idea of bonuses based on hits milestones, 2000, 2500. Sound good?" Thursday, off day, "Martino, Rubin, Popper, Lennon, etc: Someone said that you're nearing a deal. Is this true? More or less than Crawford? How do Fred's comments make you feel now?" The only real thing this changes is it tells the media to STFU. for a day or so. Doesn't mean Alderson can't write up a number, put it in a text, and send it to Reyes' agent.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2011 04:35 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I wonder if with today's news that Reyes won't entertain contract talks until after season's end, we are now past the rubicon where the Wilpons' self-centered actions to retain majority ownership of the Mets are inconsistent with the well being of the team itself. If it should become known that Einhorn would otherwise be willing to pay for Reyes' next Mets contract but for the fact that Einhorn is primarily hoping that the Mets flounder enough to force the Wilpons to sell their shares of the team -- then maybe it's time for the Wilpons to sell now. Not that this would ever happen, I know. Someone's gonna have to pry the Wilpons' cold and clammy death grip from the Mets before they're gotten rid of.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 21 2011 04:36 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Benjamin Grimm wrote: That's how I see it too. The agent talks to the club, and he either comes to Jose and says "We have a deal" or he doesn't? I agree. I'd guess that Reyes "no contract talks" is just a negotiating tactic.

Ashie62 Jun 21 2011 04:58 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

He can be traded now. I almost hope the fucker pulls a hammy.

RealityChuck Jun 21 2011 05:54 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I don't see any reason to trade him. No one is going to give the team anyone who's going to be any better than the draft choices the Mets will get if he signs elsewhere. There's no one to play shortstop this year, anyway (if another team has a solid shortstop prospect, why aren't they playing him instead of trading for Reyes?). Wait until the end of the season, give Jose a legitimate offer, and take the draft picks if he doesn't like it. People say "there is no such thing as a pitching prospect." I'll add that there's no such thing as a prospect. Its always a crapshoot until the player gets to the major leagues. So why throw away this season for a couple of players who project to be utility men at best?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 21 2011 06:10 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

RealityChuck wrote: I don't see any reason to trade him. No one is going to give the team anyone who's going to be any better than the draft choices the Mets will get if he signs elsewhere. How do you know if you don't shop him? There's no one to play shortstop this year, anyway (if another team has a solid shortstop prospect, why aren't they playing him instead of trading for Reyes?). Tejada can play the position. Wait until the end of the season, give Jose a legitimate offer, and take the draft picks if he doesn't like it. Fine with me but I'd exlore all possibilities. Compensation for departing FA's may look different by this winter too, it's certainly no sure thing either. People say "there is no such thing as a pitching prospect." I'll add that there's no such thing as a prospect. Its always a crapshoot until the player gets to the major leagues. So why throw away this season for a couple of players who project to be utility men at best?

I don't agree with a lot of this. There are lots of prospects and lots of ways to project the likelihood they're any good. Just because many fail doesn't mean any will. One way to succeed with prospects is to obtain them in volume, a trade is one way to do that and shouldn't be necessarily dismissed. We're also on the verge of a tough stretch in the schedule and already badly undermanned, there may not be much of a season to salvagein a few weeks, at any rate it needn't be decided now.

Edgy DC Jun 21 2011 06:13 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

RealityChuck wrote: I don't see any reason to trade him. No one is going to give the team anyone who's going to be any better than the draft choices the Mets will get if he signs elsewhere. I don't know why that's such a certainty. It happens every year. There's no one to play shortstop this year, anyway... Sure there is. He's playing second right now. ...(if another team has a solid shortstop prospect, why aren't they playing him instead of trading for Reyes?). I imagine such a person would be dealt because he isn't yet believed to be ready to consistently perform in the major leagues. Especially for a team with greater expectations than the mean. The Mets believed that about Melvin Mora and gave him up for Bordick. Wait until the end of the season, give Jose a legitimate offer, and take the draft picks if he doesn't like it. There's certainly motivation for both sides to think about trying to move more quickly. People say "there is no such thing as a pitching prospect." Who says that? I'll add that there's no such thing as a prospect. Its always a crapshoot until the player gets to the major leagues. It's a crapshoot in the big leagues too. But some bets are better than others. I don't get it. There's nothing mutually exclusive about prospect and crapshoot. Nobody's perfomance is guaranteed in advance. Until it happens, it exists as a matter of degrees of probabliity. So why throw away this season for a couple of players who project to be utility men at best? I don't think trading players is throwing them away. I don't think the Mets would intend to trade him for players that project to be utility players at best, but rather only for players who they believe likely to be better than the players they would get in the draft, or they won't trade him at all.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 21 2011 06:34 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Well, right now I'm hoping that the Mets sign Jose during the "Piazza Period" between the last game of the season and the day that everyone is free to negotiate with all players. That's what I'm hoping.

attgig Jun 21 2011 06:39 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, right now I'm hoping that the Mets sign Jose during the "Piazza Period" between the last game of the season and the day that everyone is free to negotiate with all players. That's what I'm hoping. same here. no need to hate on him for telling the media now exactly what he told the media a few months ago. he can just repeat the same answer anytime the media asks him anything about a contract. I hope he has an awesome season though, where ownership is forced to offer him a contract. i want him to be a Met for life.

Elster88 Jun 21 2011 07:54 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

...(if another team has a solid shortstop prospect, why aren't they playing him instead of trading for Reyes?). I imagine such a person would be dealt because he isn't yet believed to be ready to consistently perform in the major leagues. Especially for a team with greater expectations than the mean. The Mets believed that about Melvin Mora and gave him up for Bordick. This thread breaks my heart in so many ways. Can we talk about Beltran's called strike three again?

Edgy DC Jun 22 2011 07:12 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

"I never like to play GM, but Reyes is a good player. He's a game-changer. It's not my checkbook. I'm not making the decisions. But if I had a team, I'd pick Reyes. He's a good kid. He's got some tools. His speed - it's very important. You're going to get that everyday and that's not going to go into a slump. He plays good defense, he's got good attitude. He loves to play the game. What else can you ask for?" --- Carlos Delgado "Speed don't slump" is a pretty solid principle and I like it, but no more so than "You can't steal first." And getting to first is a skill that can slump. Moreover, speed may not slump, but it does get hurt and it does grow old --- earlier than other skills, typically.

Centerfield Jun 22 2011 08:05 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'm disappointed on so many levels. I was hoping that Jose wasn't just giving lip service and really did want to stay here. I was hoping he'd give a hometeam discount, that he would come out and say "Hey, they put a fair offer out there, I'm ready to sign." I guess that's asking for a lot. I can't blame the guy, but I'm still disappointed. I'm really disappointed that Sandy and company screwed the pooch on this one. The time to get this deal done was last winter. They could have locked him up for less money. Stupid. But more than anything, I'm disappointed that this wonderful season will be tainted with thoughts that this is his last year here, and that with each hit and stolen base, he's driving up his price tag and making himself more appealing to other teams. I will be crushed if he leaves. If he signs with Philly or the MFY's, I may seriously consider taking a break from baseball.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 22 2011 08:09 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'm actually thinking of breaking with all you guys and saying, let's just see what he brings back in a trade. If it's not the kind of thing that knocks your jocks off, then you don't have to do it, but for now we're the only team out there with a JoseJose to trade, don't think the Eggheads running this team now don't know that.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 22 2011 08:23 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Centerfield wrote: I'm really disappointed that Sandy and company screwed the pooch on this one. The time to get this deal done was last winter. They could have locked him up for less money. Stupid. How many here were all for signing Reyes before this season started, especially given Reyes' most recent injury issues?

Ceetar Jun 22 2011 08:29 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Centerfield wrote: I'm really disappointed that Sandy and company screwed the pooch on this one. The time to get this deal done was last winter. They could have locked him up for less money. Stupid. How many here were all for signing Reyes before this season started, especially given Reyes' most recent injury issues? I would've taken five of 6 years of Reyes' 2010 numbers in a heartbeat. Especially for the smaller yearly sum that he'd have gotten. I guessed he'd reach or top 20 million per if they let him play out the year.

TransMonk Jun 22 2011 08:29 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Centerfield wrote: I'm really disappointed that Sandy and company screwed the pooch on this one. The time to get this deal done was last winter. I disagree with this. Reyes was merely average in 2009-2010 while missing considerable time with injury. Hindsight is 20/20 and Sandy had no way of knowing that Reyes was going to blow up in this manner. He ran the risk of overpaying at a time when the team had no extra money to overpay. Also, we have no way of knowing if Jose was going to test the market even if a Mets offer was made last winter. The way I see it, both sides were better off waiting to see how 2011 was going to pan out for Jose. Reyes is sitting better off than the team right now. If a trade is there...I'm not opposed to taking it if there is value.

TransMonk Jun 22 2011 08:31 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'm still of the opinion that the 2017-18 Mets have no business paying $20M/year to a 34-35 year old shortstop...no matter how good his 2011 numbers are.

Edgy DC Jun 22 2011 08:33 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that no longterm deals were going to be signed in 2010-2011. Sandy didn't have the money to playe with. He may now, but the lay of the land is different.

Centerfield Jun 22 2011 09:00 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Centerfield wrote: I'm really disappointed that Sandy and company screwed the pooch on this one. The time to get this deal done was last winter. They could have locked him up for less money. Stupid. How many here were all for signing Reyes before this season started, especially given Reyes' most recent injury issues? I can't say how many were, but I was.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 22 2011 09:04 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Centerfield wrote: Centerfield wrote: I'm really disappointed that Sandy and company screwed the pooch on this one. The time to get this deal done was last winter. They could have locked him up for less money. Stupid. How many here were all for signing Reyes before this season started, especially given Reyes' most recent injury issues? I can't say how many were, but I was. Check out the second post in the Expectations for Jose Reyes thread (bumped up for your convenience).

MFS62 Jun 22 2011 09:05 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: "Speed don't slump" is a pretty solid principle and I like it, but no more so than "You can't steal first." And getting to first is a skill that can slump. Moreover, speed may not slump, but it does get hurt and it does grow old --- earlier than other skills, typically. Exactly. Your Honor, I place in evidence Luis Castillo as an example of a player signed to a long term contract with a "speed game" who had few other skills to compensate when his speed eroded quickly. Later

Centerfield Jun 22 2011 09:09 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

TransMonk wrote: I'm really disappointed that Sandy and company screwed the pooch on this one. The time to get this deal done was last winter. I disagree with this. Reyes was merely average in 2009-2010 while missing considerable time with injury. Hindsight is 20/20 and Sandy had no way of knowing that Reyes was going to blow up in this manner. He ran the risk of overpaying at a time when the team had no extra money to overpay. Also, we have no way of knowing if Jose was going to test the market even if a Mets offer was made last winter. The way I see it, both sides were better off waiting to see how 2011 was going to pan out for Jose. Reyes is sitting better off than the team right now. If a trade is there...I'm not opposed to taking it if there is value. I don't think it's hindsight at all. I posted this back in January: This is stupid. Sign an extension now when his value is not great. Sure, in the worst case scenario, you may dodge a bullet if he tanks this year, but barring an unmitigated disaster, there is little to gain. The scenarios as I see them are: 1. If he has a great year, you end up paying more. Lots more. 2. If he has a so-so year, you still have to bring him back (there are no other real options, within the organization, or via free agency) but then you pay more because other teams are in the mix. 3. If he has a bad year, you may be able to save some money, but you have to bank on the fact that no team will pony up the cash and gamble that he returns to form. In other words, you might save money, but you might not. 4. If he has a bad year, and suffers some sort of injury that will affect the rest of his career, you've dodged a bullet. To me, scenarios 3 and 4 are not enough to offset 1 and 2, which I feel, are more likely to happen anyway. Plus he's a home-grown player. Sandy should be talking to him right now.

TransMonk Jun 22 2011 09:34 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'm still with Sandy on his decision to wait (the hindsight I referred to is more his than yours). And I still bet that Jose would have waited it out even if the Mets had made him an offer. Other than Jose saying the obligitory "I love New York. I want to play my whole career here" (what else is he supposed to say?), Jose has never given any indication that there would be a hometown discount or that he wasn't going to test the FA market.

Ceetar Jun 22 2011 09:38 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

MFS62 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: "Speed don't slump" is a pretty solid principle and I like it, but no more so than "You can't steal first." And getting to first is a skill that can slump. Moreover, speed may not slump, but it does get hurt and it does grow old --- earlier than other skills, typically. Exactly. Your Honor, I place in evidence Luis Castillo as an example of a player signed to a long term contract with a "speed game" who had few other skills to compensate when his speed eroded quickly. Later Reyes has a few other skills to compensate. You know how Reyes smacks the ball off walls for triples, or drives it into the gap? Reyes already has 3x as many home runs as Castillo. Castillo was pretty good defensively, but Reyes is better. Reyes is not going to stop hitting the ball well. His total bases numbers will likely come down, but probably not his XBHs. Now, he might not be worth 20 million near the end of the contract, but he won't be a liability.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 22 2011 09:54 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Everybody's got an opinion on this topic, including this guy -- Mets should say 'no way' to Jose Reyes -- who appears on the ESPN web-site occasionally, and who , in my opinion, generates the most unreadable junk of any media member writing on the Mets. I'll take this writer over --under, really-- your Klapisches, Chass's and anybody else you might think is the media person writing the crappiest crap about the Mets. Rob Parker makes Joe Morgan sound like Bill James.

Vic Sage Jun 22 2011 11:41 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

"Speed don't slump" is a pretty solid principle and I like it not entirely true, and, IMO, not true at all in Reyes' case. He has historically gone into September swoons, with significant late season drops in OPS. While idiots like Fatscessa have used this as evidence that Jose isn't "clutch" (and therefore could never be a "true yankee"), all other stats indicate jose does just fine in any kind of "clutch" scenario you can conjure up. What he HAS done, though, is routinely fade in September, after each hot August. If you dismiss the absurd "clutch" argument, the explanation seems apparent: a guy like him, who thrives on speed and energy, just runs out of gas after being run into the ground in the summer heat. "speed doesn't slump?" I think it does.

Edgy DC Jun 22 2011 11:54 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I think it's clear that Delgado, when saying His speed - it's very important. You're going to get that everyday and that's not going to go into a slump. is speaking of the ability to run, as opposed to the ability to hit, something that's not particularly well measured in OPS.

Vic Sage Jun 22 2011 11:54 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

why the Mets probably won't trade Reyes... so says grant brisbee. And if your name is "grant brisbee", your a sports writer that needs to be taken seriously. That name just yells "sportswriter" to me. http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/6/22/22367 ... umors-news

Ceetar Jun 22 2011 12:41 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: I think it's clear that Delgado, when saying His speed - it's very important. You're going to get that everyday and that's not going to go into a slump. is speaking of the ability to run, as opposed to the ability to hit, something that's not particularly well measred in OPS. u It's why "he's taking his troubles out into the field" is a sign of letting the slump get to you.

Vic Sage Jun 23 2011 11:09 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: I think it's clear that Delgado, when saying His speed - it's very important. You're going to get that everyday and that's not going to go into a slump. is speaking of the ability to run, as opposed to the ability to hit, something that's not particularly well measured in OPS. To the extent its the basis of Jose's game, i'd say it pretty much is measured by the sinking september OPS. Its not like Jose forgets how to hit late in the season. It's not about "ability"; its about "production". And sure, hitting and OPS can fluctuate by periodic slumps, that doesn't mean the person slumping doesn't have the ABILITY to hit. Just as, when a player whose game is entirely about his legs, loses his legs late in the season due to exhaustion, or the accumulation of niggling injury, his production is bound to slump. I really don't see the difference, or any basis for the false truism that "speed doesn't slump." It slumps just like any other skill over 6 months/162 game season.

Edgy DC Jun 23 2011 11:31 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

No it doesn't. I think it's pretty clear that a guy runs much closer to his mean throughout the season than he hits.

Ashie62 Jun 23 2011 04:24 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I think we be keepin Wright and Reyes be-leavin.

Ceetar Jun 23 2011 07:48 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ashie62 wrote: I think we be keepin Wright and Reyes be-leavin. this would be a comment from 2017?

Rockin' Doc Jun 23 2011 09:49 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Although it's been said many times, many ways, don't trade Reyes

TheOldMole Jun 23 2011 10:47 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

And do whatever it takes to sign him.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 24 2011 04:12 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Yeah! At this point I'm more concerned about him departing through free agency than through a trade. I want Jose to finish the 2011 season as a Met. And I want him to be back with the club for 2012 spring training, with a fresh new bright-and-shiny contract.

seawolf17 Jun 24 2011 08:12 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

From FaFiF: http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2 ... ing-reyes/ If the Mets were going to go balls-to-the-wall to get the guys they need to surround Reyes & Wright, then definitely sign Reyes. But you know they’re not going to do that. If they sign Reyes, that will be IT. If they sign Wright next year, that will be IT. And that leaves us with the same team we’re treading water with now, minus a few guys who are contributing, with two long-term big money deals added in. I refuse to have that kind of defeatism.

metirish Jun 24 2011 08:21 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I do wonder what impact it might have on Wright if the Mets don't sign Reyes, for the reasons highlighted above , he might say screw this and head for FA and go to a team that matches his ambition.

attgig Jun 24 2011 08:41 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: From FaFiF: http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2 ... ing-reyes/ If the Mets were going to go balls-to-the-wall to get the guys they need to surround Reyes & Wright, then definitely sign Reyes. But you know they’re not going to do that. If they sign Reyes, that will be IT. If they sign Wright next year, that will be IT. And that leaves us with the same team we’re treading water with now, minus a few guys who are contributing, with two long-term big money deals added in. I refuse to have that kind of defeatism. agreed. so much money outside of reyes/wright are coming off the payroll. it will NOT be "IT". Plus, with a front office that actually cares about draft picks and a farm system (plus, possible trades of other folks like a krod in particular), we can have some decent prospects come back our way.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 24 2011 08:42 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: From FaFiF: http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2 ... ing-reyes/ If the Mets were going to go balls-to-the-wall to get the guys they need to surround Reyes & Wright, then definitely sign Reyes. But you know they’re not going to do that. If they sign Reyes, that will be IT. If they sign Wright next year, that will be IT. And that leaves us with the same team we’re treading water with now, minus a few guys who are contributing, with two long-term big money deals added in. I refuse to have that kind of defeatism. I just filed my response there but didn't get too much into the writer's foot-stampiness and wound-lickingingness. I don't sign on for that part of it either.

G-Fafif Jun 24 2011 08:57 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: From FaFiF: http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2 ... ing-reyes/ If the Mets were going to go balls-to-the-wall to get the guys they need to surround Reyes & Wright, then definitely sign Reyes. But you know they’re not going to do that. If they sign Reyes, that will be IT. If they sign Wright next year, that will be IT. And that leaves us with the same team we’re treading water with now, minus a few guys who are contributing, with two long-term big money deals added in. I refuse to have that kind of defeatism. Kind of an opposing viewpoint from a good friend whose writing (in e-mail form) I enjoy, so I asked him I could string his thoughts together into a post, and he said sure. His voice represents the nagging doubts deep inside my Met psyche. Don't Trade Reyes. Are you absolutely sure? Yes. Don't Trade Reyes. Are you sure that's the best thing? Absolutely. Don't Trade Reyes. Isn't it worth exploring every avenue? Um, well, yeah. But Don't Trade Reyes. But isn't he your most tradable commodity? And isn't he going to command a whole lot of money a cash-strapped organization isn't necessarily equipped to provide? And will the team be able to improve over the long haul if they make that commitment? Shut up! Don't Trade Reyes! If you say so...still, you might want to think about it. Quit nagging at me! Don't Trade Reyes! Fine. We won't. But are you sure...?

Ashie62 Jun 24 2011 09:53 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ceetar wrote: Ashie62 wrote: I think we be keepin Wright and Reyes be-leavin. this would be a comment from 2017? That would be terrific! But Jose's days as a Met may be windlng down..quickly..

Ashie62 Jun 24 2011 09:55 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

You don't have to trade Reyes. You are guaranteed two draft picks and the chance to speak to him first.

Edgy DC Jun 24 2011 11:27 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

seawolf17 wrote: From FaFiF: http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2 ... ing-reyes/ If the Mets were going to go balls-to-the-wall to get the guys they need to surround Reyes & Wright, then definitely sign Reyes. But you know they’re not going to do that. If they sign Reyes, that will be IT. If they sign Wright next year, that will be IT. And that leaves us with the same team we’re treading water with now, minus a few guys who are contributing, with two long-term big money deals added in. I refuse to have that kind of defeatism. Yeah, agreed. I'm very happy with the idea of signing Reyes and Wright and building through their pipeline.

Edgy DC Jun 24 2011 11:30 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Ashie62 wrote: You don't have to trade Reyes. You are guaranteed two draft picks and the chance to speak to him first. Sure, but the offer that comes may well be more valuable to the Mets than that. Seems like two days ago that he was the valuable commodity teams were asking for at the deadline. Seems like yesterday, as he struggled to get healthy, that the Mets were mocked for treating him as untouchable.

TransMonk Jul 20 2011 10:46 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Buster Onley tweets: Mets are 100 percent sure they are not trading Reyes

Rockin' Doc Jul 20 2011 11:22 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

That's a positive start to resolving Reyes' future status with the Mets. Now, they just have to make him a competitive offer and get him resigned. Nice to see that Sandy Alderson says that "resolving the Reyes situation in a favorble way is a top priority."

Edgy DC Jul 20 2011 12:01 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

I'm not sure getting him re-signed will automatically follow making a competitive offer, though, especially since "competitive offer" remains a highly subjective term. Still some adventure to come.

Vic Sage Aug 08 2011 10:30 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

As long as he's going to keep this up, how about a deal like this: 4 years / $15m guaranteed, plus $2.5m/yr in makeable incentives (GGs, SSs, MVP votes, all-star appearances, post-season, ws); PLUS, if he reaches 700+ plate appearances in a season (a threshold he exceeded from 2005 to 2008), he gets (1) an additional $2.5m, plus (2) it extends the deal for an additional season at $17.5m (plus the $2.5m in incentives), for up to 4 additional option years. If the PA threshold isn't met to vest any of the option years, the balance of contract can be bought out for $10m after last guaranteed year. So, the deal would provide no less than 4yr/$70m, but could go up to 8 year/$160m, based on health and production.

soupcan Aug 08 2011 11:35 AM Re: Don't trade Reyes

That's great until some other team guarantees him 7yrs./$140mm unconditionally.

Edgy DC Aug 08 2011 12:24 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

The guy's going to get $100 million one way or another. It looked true enough before the season and sure looks that way now, unless the MRI says something strongly different.

Vic Sage Aug 08 2011 01:46 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

It looked true enough before the season... I'm not sure about that; he was coming off his 2nd consecutive injury shortened season, having played only 4 full seasons out of 8 in his career to that point (now 4 out of 9). And by "full", i mean showing up for 150+ games. Of the 4 full seasons he played, his OPS+ on 2 of the 4 were 101 and 102. So, until this season, i wouldn't say that it looked true enough that he was going to get a $100m guaranteed deal based on 2 great seasons, 2 good ones, and 4 mediocre-to-good partial seasons. Of course, this year he has put up 2/3rds of an MVP season, far and away the best of his career, so that definitely changed the calculations. until his 2nd hammy of the 2nd half. Now, if he goes on the DL again and misses 2-3 weeks, and comes back as comparatively weakly as he did after the 1st DL stint, is it still true enough that he's a 6yr/$120m player? And should the Mets sign him at that price anyway, if competition drives the price up to that level? Sure, in a universe of infinite resources, like the Bronx, where you just swallow your mistakes and don't let them inhibit you from making future moves, well then of course, bring back the prodigal son at whatever price. But if you want the franchise to be run from a perspective of rationality within a universe of finite resources, which is what some of us celebrated in Alderson's hiring, does this kind of high risk / high reward player make sense (given that the rewards were primarily seen in 2006, 2008 and 2/3rd of 2011)? i'm not saying not to try and re-sign him (i'm on record in this thread advocating against trading him and for re-signing him), but i would understand if Alderson chose to offer some kind of qualified deal (with a high payoff potential) rather than lock him in for 6-7yrs@$120-$140m, and if another owner wanted to give him that, then we lose him. I'd be sad, but i'd understand it.

Ashie62 Aug 08 2011 02:12 PM Re: Don't trade Reyes

Edgy DC wrote: The guy's going to get $100 million one way or another. It looked true enough before the season and sure looks that way now, unless the MRI says something strongly different. I'm looking at it that Reyes may be even more affordable to the Metsies. I guess there is some GM out there that would guarantee Reyes 7 years but I doubt Sandy is one of them..