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Jason Bay

metirish Jun 09 2011 05:53 PM

Sounds like he is being sat for the next few games too , Collins on the pre game talking about how it's darker here at Miller Park and that Bay might not be seeing the ball, yeah he actually said that . Collins then went on to talk about Bay sitting to give him time to " work on what they are working on". Burkhardt then talked about a few things the Mets might do , sit him for a few games and hope whatever he and the hitting coach is working on fixes things and he " hits the ground running" or bench him and bring up Duda. WOW

Ashie62 Jun 09 2011 06:06 PM Re: Jason Bay

This is playing out as one of the biggest FA busts not just Mets history but all of baseball..

Ceetar Jun 09 2011 06:18 PM Re: Jason Bay

metirish wrote: Sounds like he is being sat for the next few games too , Collins on the pre game talking about how it's darker here at Miller Park and that Bay might not be seeing the ball, yeah he actually said that . Collins then went on to talk about Bay sitting to give him time to " work on what they are working on". WOW Well, multiple players have cited Miller Park as being hard to pick up the ball. Beltran too on fly balls for instance. But they're just grasping at straws for Bay. Might as well just go 'no comment'.

Edgy DC Jun 09 2011 06:23 PM Re: Jason Bay

Ashie62 wrote: This is playing out as one of the biggest FA busts not just Mets history but all of baseball.. Smashie beats the rush to the broadest conclusions.

The Second Spitter Jun 09 2011 06:37 PM Re: Jason Bay

.....needs to go back on Primobolan.

The Second Spitter Jun 09 2011 06:50 PM Re: Jason Bay

Edgy DC wrote: Ashie62 wrote: This is playing out as one of the biggest FA busts not just Mets history but all of baseball.. Smashie beats the rush to the broadest conclusions. If he wasn't white, somebody would have labelled him that way 2 months ago.

Frayed Knot Jun 09 2011 07:27 PM Re: Jason Bay

I don't know that fans are quicker to tag non-white players as busts, just maybe throw labels around as to why a bit easier. As for Bay, they're going to have to use him at some point, not just because of the money but because it's too illogical to assume he simply forgot how to hit and will never get it back. Even if he'll never be what they hoped you gotta figure he'll be at least decent again.

TheOldMole Jun 09 2011 07:58 PM Re: Jason Bay

Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad?

Fman99 Jun 09 2011 08:01 PM Re: Jason Bay

All of my ideas on fixing the problem involve [crossout:21j0yqk5]setting him on fire dropping him into a canyon feeding him to genetically engineered dinosaurs in a resort run amok[/crossout:21j0yqk5] an extended stay in the minor leagues.

The Second Spitter Jun 09 2011 08:09 PM Re: Jason Bay

TheOldMole wrote: Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad? He stopped using steroids.

seawolf17 Jun 09 2011 08:21 PM Re: Jason Bay

Who? I thought we traded him for Jason Middlebrook a few years ago.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 09 2011 08:32 PM Re: Jason Bay

Fman99 wrote: All of my ideas on fixing the problem involve [crossout]setting him on fire dropping him into a canyon feeding him to genetically engineered dinosaurs in a resort run amok[/crossout] an extended stay in the minor leagues. Yeah, I've been thinking of making him Buffalo Bay for a while.

Ceetar Jun 09 2011 08:49 PM Re: Jason Bay

The Second Spitter wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad? He stopped using steroids. He should've stopped the way David Ortiz stopped. or A-Rod. Not the way Jeter or Manny Ramirez did.

Ceetar Jun 09 2011 09:16 PM Re: Jason Bay

AND HERE COMES DUDA. okay, only likely. Evans DFA though.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 09 2011 09:34 PM Re: Jason Bay

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Fman99 wrote: All of my ideas on fixing the problem involve [crossout]setting him on fire dropping him into a canyon feeding him to genetically engineered dinosaurs in a resort run amok[/crossout] an extended stay in the minor leagues. Yeah, I've been thinking of making him Buffalo Bay for a while. He's Canadian. He should like it fine.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2011 04:11 AM Re: Jason Bay

The Bergen Record has a new nickname for Jason Bay: Slumpdog Millionaire.

The Second Spitter Jun 10 2011 04:51 AM Re: Jason Bay

Ceetar wrote: The Second Spitter wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad? He stopped using steroids. He should've stopped the way David Ortiz stopped. or A-Rod. Not the way Jeter or Manny Ramirez did. Slappy is a HOFer with or without steriods. Papi had a 112OPS+ in the Majors as a 22 year old in the 98 (which is not to say he wasn't on the gas) but his numbers map-out a natural curve. Whereas Bay's minors numbers are a dog's breakfast. The circumstantial evidence against Bay, while not irrefutable, is strong; - Radomski was supplying the Pirates clubhouse. - His minor league numbers spiked after he left the Padres - A 132OPS+ rookie season in 2003 at 25 after career SLG% of 491 in the minors looks downright sus in my book. - Phillips' "special case" comment (thought to be) implying that Bay was a "late bloomer", may have been Phillips' cute way of outing him. And let's be honest, Phillips is known for airing dirty laundry in post-GM life . - The Boston clubhouse wasn't exactly the paragon of virtue for steroids use (but I accept that few were in and around that time). - Shoulder injuries are known to be associated with steroid use (referring to the one he had in Boston). - Finally, the benefits of using steroids are residual insofar you can retain the benefits for a number of years until a serious injury. However when the muscle degrades through inactivity the benefit is permanently lost.

smg58 Jun 10 2011 06:52 AM Re: Jason Bay

Whatever the reason, I think the Mets need to hope that a team with a more hitter-friendly park is willing to gamble that all he needs is a change of scenery. I just don't see him giving the Mets more than Martinez or Duda could over the next 2 1/2 years.

metirish Jun 10 2011 06:57 AM Re: Jason Bay

smg58 wrote: Whatever the reason, I think the Mets need to hope that a team with a more hitter-friendly park is willing to gamble that all he needs is a change of scenery. I just don't see him giving the Mets more than Martinez or Duda could over the next 2 1/2 years. agree totally about his production relative to those guys , Bay might not hit 20 home runs over the next few seasons as a Met, if a team did take him the Mets would be paying most of his salary to be sure.What a shame that his first trip back to Pittsburgh and he is benched. Ojeda claims he got pull happy in Boston but that hardly explains his success in Pittsburgh does it?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2011 07:03 AM Re: Jason Bay

It's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where the Mets could trade Bay without throwing in about $40 million. And if you have to do that, there's little point to it.

Ceetar Jun 10 2011 07:10 AM Re: Jason Bay

It's certainly possible those other guys can outperform him, but let's wait for that to happen first. Obviously Collins isn't afraid to sit Bay so that should give those other guys opportunities. Those guys are also probably pegged to replace Beltran if he leaves.

86-Dreamer Jun 10 2011 07:35 AM Re: Jason Bay

Fman99 wrote: All of my ideas on fixing the problem involve [crossout]setting him on fire dropping him into a canyon feeding him to genetically engineered dinosaurs in a resort run amok[/crossout] an extended stay in the minor leagues. Am hoping someone in the media starts to run with this idea. Bay surely won't like it, but he needs to play his way out of this and the Mets can't afford another 20 hitless ABs.

TransMonk Jun 10 2011 07:52 AM Re: Jason Bay

The Second Spitter wrote: TheOldMole wrote: Any thoughts on why Bay is so bad? He stopped using steroids. I don't see this as being the case. It's not as if he was hitting monster bombs and now he only hitting pop flies. His problem seems to be mechanical and has to do primarily with his hand/eye coordination. It's not an issue of strength...he's just plain not seeing the ball. His whole body (feet, core, head, hands) is out of whack. I don't know what the solution is, but I would start with detailed one-on-one cage sessions with Hudgens followed up with watching some tape of his swing. It may be that Bay is not taking instruction from anyone and thinks he can fix it himself over time. If that's the case, it's not working, and he's a douche that deserves to get booed and ride the pine.

Ceetar Jun 10 2011 07:57 AM Re: Jason Bay

TransMonk wrote: I don't know what the solution is, but I would start with detailed one-on-one cage sessions with Hudgens followed up with watching some tape of his swing. It may be that Bay is not taking instruction from anyone and thinks he can fix it himself over time. If that's the case, it's not working, and he's a douche that deserves to get booed and ride the pine. Hard to tell. It seems like he's doing that. His quotes have been the "right ones" so far. These things aren't simple, but I do think he should do more work. more advance scouting, more tape studying. or less. Maybe he's overthinking. There's very little thinking involved in smashing BP home runs (and very little to criticique in a swing I'd imagine) but if he gets up there guessing fastball in but is worried in the back of his mind about a slider away? Could that create a tick of hesitation that causes him to miss?

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2011 08:02 AM Re: Jason Bay

TransMonk wrote: It's not an issue of strength...he's just plain not seeing the ball... I don't know what the solution is...

metirish Jun 10 2011 08:03 AM Re: Jason Bay

If you are to believe what you read and from what Collins says then Hudgens tweaked his swing in Spring Training and then had him go back to his old swing at some point and that didn't work either, Collins also thinks he is hearing advice from too many people and that Bay maybe "talking to someone else too" but he doesn't know that, an old coach somewhere?.....anyway trying to read between the lines , never a good thing for me Bay needs to drop the bat and get away from baseball.

86-Dreamer Jun 10 2011 08:07 AM Re: Jason Bay

hopefully he can turn it around, but looking pretty clear right now that he is the worst FA in Mets history, so I wondered how he compared to Fregosi - generally acknowledged as worst trade in Mets history. Its a close one: Fregosi: 382 Abs 5 HRS 32 RBI BA .232 OBP .311 SLG .344 JBay*: 405 Abs 7 Hrs 49 RBI BA .239 OBP .326 SLG .353 these are Bays most recent 405 ABs - not his entire stay, but wanted to lok at them over a similar time frame.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2011 08:10 AM Re: Jason Bay

The other thing to consider here is that Bay was expected to provide a lot more offense than Jim Fregosi was. I do think that Jason Bay is the worst free-agent signing in club history. The salary is very high, and the production (if you want to call it that) is very low. What can compare to this? Roger Cedeno was a flop, but not so high-priced. Bobby Bonilla? He was a jerk, but he produced. Same with Vince Coleman, although his best days were behind him. Who else is in the conversation? Glavine? Pedro? Tom Hausman? It's hard to argue that any of them turned out worse than Bay has so far.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2011 08:14 AM Re: Jason Bay

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The other thing to consider here is that Bay was expected to provide a lot more offense than Jim Fregosi was. I do think that Jason Bay is the worst free-agent signing in club history. The salary is very high, and the production (if you want to call it that) is very low. What can compare to this? Roger Cedeno was a flop, but not so high-priced. Bobby Bonilla? He was a jerk, but he produced. Same with Vince Coleman, although his best days were behind him. Who else is in the conversation? Glavine? Pedro? Tom Hausman? It's hard to argue that any of them turned out worse than Bay has so far. I agree. Nobody's even close, considering the money paid to Bay, his lack of production, and what was reasonably to be expected of Bay.

metirish Jun 10 2011 08:17 AM Re: Jason Bay

SNY on the pre game showed a stat, I think it was SLG and his compared trough the years to IIRC Doug Flynn, Rey Ordonez and basically some of the worst hitters ever to lift a bat.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2011 08:29 AM Re: Jason Bay

So far this year: 6 extra base hits (4 doubles and 2 homers) in 140 at bats. And three of those XBH came in April, in which he only played 9 games. He started out fairly non-sucky, but that didn't last.

smg58 Jun 10 2011 08:34 AM Re: Jason Bay

I guess we're treating the Ollie contract as a re-signing?

batmagadanleadoff Jun 10 2011 08:36 AM Re: Jason Bay

Bay's career Mets stats are very similar to Cleon Jones' dreadful 1967 season, Lee Mazzilli's 1977 rookie campaign and John Stearns' 1979 season.

smg58 Jun 10 2011 08:37 AM Re: Jason Bay

Benjamin Grimm wrote: He started out fairly non-sucky, but that didn't last. Which allows for at least some possibility that, like Wright, there's a medical reason behind his hitting woes (at least the recent ones).

Ceetar Jun 10 2011 08:41 AM Re: Jason Bay

I'm going to stick to the "first year in NY" thing. He only really got about half a year last year, so if we assume a 'full season' is about 150 games, he's at 134. So let's say he sucks for roughly 16 more games, Sits in three of them, and reawakens on the second homestand against the Yankees, hitting 9 RBI on Friday night including a 3-run dinger off the opposite foul pole that's initially ruled in play.

Ashie62 Jun 10 2011 10:43 AM Re: Jason Bay

smg58 wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: He started out fairly non-sucky, but that didn't last. Which allows for at least some possibility that, like Wright, there's a medical reason behind his hitting woes (at least the recent ones). I'm going with the quasi medical reason of "aging."

Ashie62 Jun 10 2011 10:44 AM Re: Jason Bay

Ceetar wrote: I'm going to stick to the "first year in NY" thing. He only really got about half a year last year, so if we assume a 'full season' is about 150 games, he's at 134. So let's say he sucks for roughly 16 more games, Sits in three of them, and reawakens on the second homestand against the Yankees, hitting 9 RBI on Friday night including a 3-run dinger off the opposite foul pole that's initially ruled in play. You predicted Bay would breakout in the first MFY series...It's one thing to be optimistic..but..cmon.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 10 2011 10:46 AM Re: Jason Bay

I know. I'm really starting to realize how tiresome "optimism" can be.

Ceetar Jun 10 2011 11:22 AM Re: Jason Bay Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 10 2011 11:40 AM

Ashie62 wrote: Ceetar wrote: I'm going to stick to the "first year in NY" thing. He only really got about half a year last year, so if we assume a 'full season' is about 150 games, he's at 134. So let's say he sucks for roughly 16 more games, Sits in three of them, and reawakens on the second homestand against the Yankees, hitting 9 RBI on Friday night including a 3-run dinger off the opposite foul pole that's initially ruled in play. You predicted Bay would breakout in the first MFY series...It's one thing to be optimistic..but..cmon. Because your guesses for why he's slumping are any better?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 10 2011 11:40 AM Re: Jason Bay

The Fregosi comparison is really pretty galling.

MFS62 Jun 10 2011 08:47 PM Re: Jason Bay

As I've mentioned before, I am still trying to get my head around some of the newer statistical measurements. The one I've struggled with is WAR (wins above replacement player). I had heard this is the ultimate scrubbenie, a composite of statistics of someone barely on the 25 man roster. But I've never been able to envision the productivity of that baseline player. I just looked at Jason Bay's stat line for the year. Now I understand. Later

The Second Spitter Jun 11 2011 12:19 AM Re: Jason Bay

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Bobby Bonilla? He was a jerk, but he produced I feel obligated to defend my boy: Why was he a jerk? Was it because Mets fans started abusing him without provocation because he didn't live up to his billing as the next Darryl Strawberry (and they were still pissed cos Strawberry bailed?) Or because he became the fall guy for a team of under-performing, overpriced malcontents, even though he was one of the few that gave them what they bargained for? Or because he stood-up for the organization against a person who made a career defecating on the Mets?'

Benjamin Grimm Jun 11 2011 05:01 AM Re: Jason Bay

Okay, I'll amend that to say that he was perceived as a jerk. (I never had a problem with him either, although the earplugs thing was pretty stupid. And didn't he make a stink about an official scorer's call? Maybe he was a bit of a jerk.)

The Second Spitter Jun 11 2011 05:29 AM Re: Jason Bay

Okay, I'll amend that to say that he was perceived as a jerk. (I never had a problem with him either, although the earplugs thing was pretty stupid. And didn't he make a stink about an official scorer's call? Maybe he was a bit of a jerk.) Perceived is exactly right. Here are some things I've heard Mets fans say about Bonilla: 1. Bonilla juiced because he was under the radar for so long. 2. Bonilla cajoled Vince Coleman to throw the firecracker. Variant: Bonilla didn't stop Vince Coleman from throwing the firecracker. 3. Bonilla interfered with Doc's rehab. 4. Bonilla hung-out with the wrong people while he was in New York (from a CPFer!). 5. Bonilla's introductory press conference reminded me of Gary Carter's (implying they were both phonies) (from his UM Memories page). 6. Bonilla had an arrangement with the Braves to disrupt the Mets during the 1999 NLCS. Doug Pappas (Lord, bless his soul) summed-it perfectly once: "If Bonilla was on the Mets between 85-90, he could have put up exactly the same numbers and behaved exactly the same way, and he would have been revered by Mets fans on par with HoJo, Dykstra or Mazzilli".

batmagadanleadoff Jun 11 2011 07:17 AM Re: Jason Bay

"If Bonilla was on the Mets between 85-90, he could have put up exactly the same numbers and behaved exactly the same way, and he would have been revered by Mets fans on par with HoJo, Dykstra or Mazzilli". And if Warren Spahn was a Met in the 1950's, he'd'a had the queen's balls. Put me down in the Bonilla was a big freaking jerk who produced for the Mets the first time around camp. But back to Bay. And what others are saying about Citi Field: Collins hoped a few games away from Citi Field would be good for Bay, but that hasn't been the case, though [Howard] Johnson [Bay's 2010 hitting coach] agreed it's become an issue. "There's no question that now it's a factor," Johnson said of Bay, who had just six homers and 47 RBIs in 95 games before a concussion ended his first season with the Mets last July. "We had a lot of conversations about that last year. Just driving in some runs isn't good enough for him. In baseball, you're paid for what you did in the past. http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/gee ... z1OyMa9XS1

Ceetar Jun 11 2011 07:30 AM Re: Jason Bay

That struck me as a comment on the fans and booing and psyche. but maybe.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 11 2011 07:45 AM Re: Jason Bay

Ceetar wrote: That struck me as a comment on the fans and booing and psyche. but maybe. You might be right. The article doesn't explain whether CF's dimensions, or its' booing fans, or something else is the issue. I assumed Hojo was referring to its' dimensions.

Ceetar Jun 11 2011 07:57 AM Re: Jason Bay

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ceetar wrote: That struck me as a comment on the fans and booing and psyche. but maybe. You might be right. The article doesn't explain whether CF's dimensions, or its' booing fans, or something else is the issue. I assumed Hojo was referring to its' dimensions. I assumed Hojo should shut up. Jason Bay was not really driving in runs last year, and that's part of the reason he lost his job.

The Second Spitter Jun 11 2011 08:02 AM Re: Jason Bay

batmagadanleadoff wrote: And if Warren Spahn was a Met in the 1950's, he'd'a had the queen's balls. What the fuck does mean? The point was that the were far worse "jerks" on the 1986 Mets that fans chose to ignore because they were a winning team. Bonilla was a scapegoat. batmagadanleadoff wrote: Put me down in the Bonilla was a big freaking jerk who produced for the Mets the first time around camp. Not as half a big freaking jerk as you.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 11 2011 10:12 AM Re: Jason Bay

"I believe what we were looking for there, D, was 'Your Mama.' 'Your... Mama.' You had the last correct answer, so it's still your board."

metsguyinmichigan Jun 11 2011 10:27 AM Re: Jason Bay

I don't have a big problem with Bonilla, round one. Not entirely his fault that he was thrust into a leadership role he was not suited for. I think fans expected him to carry a team, when in fact his is a better complimentary player. Klapisch was trying to -- and succeeded in -- push Bonilla's buttons. I liked that he stood up to Klap, but wish he had done it in a better way. Offering to show him the Bronx was the read meat that Klap was looking for. I've got a Bonilla road jersey that I got at Manny's Baseball Land outlet store on sale. It's a neat jersey.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 11 2011 11:53 AM Re: Jason Bay Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 11 2011 11:59 AM

The Second Spitter wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: And if Warren Spahn was a Met in the 1950's, he'd'a had the queen's balls. What the fuck does mean? The point was that the were far worse "jerks" on the 1986 Mets that fans chose to ignore because they were a winning team. Bonilla was a scapegoat. batmagadanleadoff wrote: Put me down in the Bonilla was a big freaking jerk who produced for the Mets the first time around camp. Not as half a big freaking jerk as you. I see your logic. Bonilla's not a jerk because there were jerks on the '86 Mets. And me, today I'm a jerk because I think Bonilla's a jerk. Yesterday I was a jerk because I wondered if Wright might've complained in private, to Francoeur about Citi Field. Two months ago, I was a jerk because you cheated on Lunchie's rawk quiz. I'm always a jerk if my opinion isn't consistent with yours, or probably anybody else's. And I'm especially always a jerk whenever I respond in kind, to posters who call me a jerk.

batmagadanleadoff Jun 11 2011 11:55 AM Re: Jason Bay

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: "I believe what we were looking for there, D, was 'Your Mama.' 'Your... Mama.' You had the last correct answer, so it's still your board." Did you just call me a jerk, too? Because I'm honestly not sure, but would like to know.

G-Fafif Jun 11 2011 02:15 PM Re: Jason Bay

I can't believe Jason Bay has been benched from his own thread.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 11 2011 02:19 PM Re: Jason Bay

He must be a jerk!

Ashie62 Jun 11 2011 03:27 PM Re: Jason Bay

He owns the jerkstore.

metirish Jun 11 2011 03:37 PM Re: Jason Bay

Not taking sides here but not seeing where batmag is being a jerk here.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 11 2011 05:14 PM Re: Jason Bay

batmagadanleadoff wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: "I believe what we were looking for there, D, was 'Your Mama.' 'Your... Mama.' You had the last correct answer, so it's still your board." Did you just call me a jerk, too? Because I'm honestly not sure, but would like to know. Nah. Just having fun with the what-the-hell-was-that ad hominem.

MFS62 Jun 12 2011 08:33 AM Re: Jason Bay

When the Mets signed Bobby B, Massive Mike and the Cretinous Canine (Francessa and Russo) were negotiating their own contracts (for $400,000 IIRC). If you listened to their show back then, they always seemed to be insanely jealous of the contracts the players got. When the terms of Bonilla's contract were announced, and for as long as he stayed with the club, they called him "The $29 million dollar man". They always made it sound as though that was his salary for one year, not the entire contract, and that he should be expected to put up incredible numbers. That said, with the exception of one short time, Bobby always hustled and, as he said when he signed, he gave the fans the numbers "on the back of his baseball card". I never had any problem with him. Later

dgwphotography Jun 12 2011 08:58 AM Re: Jason Bay

I never had a problem with him. Bonilla's biggest problem is that the Mets expected him to be something he wasn't, a cornerstone to be built around. I remember one opening weekend (1999?) when he stayed in the line up and played on basically one leg, because Piazza was on the DL - the invective hurled at him from the fans was unbelievable. Here was a guy playing hurt for the team, and just being vilified by the crowd. I never understood it.

Frayed Knot Jun 12 2011 10:07 AM Re: Jason Bay

The Bonilla/Carter comparison is interesting. Carter had a bad rep among some (esp with other players) of being a phony on the basis that no one could be that smiley and up all the time and therefore it had to be an act. Except that that was truly who he was. Might have been overly annoying at times, but it wasn't faked. Bonilla not only also came with the big smile but the Mets clearly played up (and over-played) the "good guy" angle. It was when he didn't always measure up that rep (fit over the error and subsequent lies about it, Klapisch, butting heads with M&MD on signing day) that the conflicts started. Also, he committed the sin that many import Mets seem to fall victim to: the bad first season (BA & OBA down 50 pts from previous season; SLG down 60). By the time he righted his ship the team was sinking and by the time he was hitting like an AS he was gone.

The Second Spitter Jun 12 2011 10:13 AM Re: Jason Bay

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I see your logic. Bonilla's not a jerk because there were jerks on the '86 Mets. And me, today I'm a jerk because I think Bonilla's a jerk. Yesterday I was a jerk because I wondered if Wright might've complained in private, to Francoeur about Citi Field. Two months ago, I was a jerk because you cheated on Lunchie's rawk quiz. I'm always a jerk if my opinion isn't consistent with yours, or probably anybody else's. And I'm especially always a jerk whenever I respond in kind, to posters who call me a jerk.

The Second Spitter Jun 12 2011 10:40 AM Re: Jason Bay

Klapisch was trying to -- and succeeded in -- push Bonilla's buttons. I liked that he stood up to Klap, but wish he had done it in a better way. Offering to show him the Bronx was the read meat that Klap was looking for. It's widely agreed that Jeff Torborg put Bonilla up to it. The Klap had gone grovelling to Torborg the day before, in private telling him not to take the book personally. When Bonilla saw him the next day in the clubhouse the first thing he said to the Klap was: "Hey Bobby why don't you suck my dick? But don't take it personally". I've got a Bonilla road jersey that I got at Manny's Baseball Land outlet store on sale. It's a neat jersey. I've always regarded you as a man of exceptional taste.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 20 2011 07:41 AM Re: Jason Bay

This is from an article in the New York Times that discusses Jason Bay's albatrossness: But given the length and size of his contract, Bay will be as much of an albatross as any player in team history if he cannot rediscover his old form. He is slated to earn $16 million per year in 2012 and 2013. The deal also includes a $17 million option for 2014 that will vest if Bay has at least 600 plate appearances in 2013 or at least 500 in both 2012 and 2013. I was unaware of (or had forgotten) that there's a possibility that Bay's contract with the Mets could extend to a fifth year. Obviously, unless Bay gets his act together in a big (and by now, unexpected) way, there's no way the Mets will let him get the required number of plate appearances in 2013. They'd surely release him before that happened.

Ceetar Jul 20 2011 07:49 AM Re: Jason Bay

Benjamin Grimm wrote: This is from an article in the New York Times that discusses Jason Bay's albatrossness: But given the length and size of his contract, Bay will be as much of an albatross as any player in team history if he cannot rediscover his old form. He is slated to earn $16 million per year in 2012 and 2013. The deal also includes a $17 million option for 2014 that will vest if Bay has at least 600 plate appearances in 2013 or at least 500 in both 2012 and 2013. I was unaware of (or had forgotten) that there's a possibility that Bay's contract with the Mets could extend to a fifth year. Obviously, unless Bay gets his act together in a big (and by now, unexpected) way, there's no way the Mets will let him get the required number of plate appearances in 2013. They'd surely release him before that happened. Which could mean his contract is almost half over. Unless it explodes the rest of the way though, Sandy's gonna have an interesting time dealing with this outfield in the offseason. No way they let that contract vest though. Another faux option year that's really an easy out for the front office. Just sitting him against tough righties would keep that from happening.

MFS62 Jul 20 2011 08:04 AM Re: Jason Bay

Ceetar wrote: Just sitting him against tough righties would keep that from happening. The way he's beem swinging, Bay would consider me a tough righty. Later

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 20 2011 08:11 AM Re: Jason Bay

I think he's at the stage of his career where he's best to be a veteran backup type for a winning team. The dumb contract assures he won;t be unless the Mets pay 90% of it and he does so for another franchise. Which I'm sure they will.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 20 2011 08:15 AM Re: Jason Bay

I think he'd be well suited for a role as a crafty veteran pinch hitter, who you call on when you need somebody to ground into a double play. I wonder if Bay would be open to an "early retirement" package? Offer him $6 million at the end of the season to just walk away. He'd gain two years to spend with his kids, rather than flailing futilely in front of booing throngs. The $6 million alone would set him for life, even if he didn't already have millions in the bank. Yeah, I know. He wouldn't go for it, his agent wouldn't go for it, and the players union wouldn't go for it. But I think it would be a nice way out of this mess for everybody.

Ceetar Jul 20 2011 08:19 AM Re: Jason Bay

Phillies looking for some Righty power right? smaller park, he still hits lefties..

Vic Sage Jul 20 2011 08:25 AM Re: Jason Bay

yeah, i'm sure they'd give us Worley and Dominic Brown for his massive contract.

batmagadanleadoff Jul 20 2011 09:31 AM Re: Jason Bay

Excerpt from Oliver Perez With a Bat? But the batting order offered a glimpse at how far Bay has fallen. ķEven with Beltran, Jose Reyes, David Wright and Ike Davis out with injuries, Bay still batted sixth. The top of the order looked like something from a split-squad game in spring training: Angel Pagan, Willie Harris, Daniel Murphy, Hairston and Lucas Duda. Bay's looking so bad at the plate -- he looks like he can't even see the pitch.

attgig Jul 20 2011 09:33 AM Re: Jason Bay

maybe he'll go the way of alex rios. Just put him on waivers, and wait for the white sox to pick him up off of waivers, and give him away for free. Or could go the way of Vernon Wells. Trade him to the angels for players that the manager just won't play and an extra OF'er. then just cut the extra OF'er midway through the season, and trade away the other guy for minor leaguers.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 20 2011 10:24 AM Re: Jason Bay

Alex Rios wasn't pushing 33, though.

seawolf17 Jul 20 2011 10:30 AM Re: Jason Bay

No, but Vernon Wells is; and Bay's is actually a more reasonable contract than either Rios or Wells. After this year, it's "only" two years, $35 million (including the 2014 buyout). If they take back a Carlos Zambrano-like contract ($18 million in 2012, then FA), then I could see it happening.

Edgy DC Jul 20 2011 10:35 AM Re: Jason Bay

I don't know what's going to happen, but what might be most illustrative is to try and find out what Alderson (and his lieutenants perhaps) have done with burdensome contracts at their previous stops.

TransMonk Jul 20 2011 10:43 AM Re: Jason Bay

Or just look at what they have done with the burdensome contracts in New York: March 18, 2011: Luis Castillo released by the New York Mets. March 21, 2011: Oliver Perez released by the New York Mets. July 12, 2011: Francisco Rodriguez traded by the New York Mets with cash to the Milwaukee Brewers for two players to be named.

Edgy DC Jul 20 2011 10:54 AM Re: Jason Bay

Those aren't as analogous as I would hope, as none represent the middle of the contract, and the last one doesn't represent a gross underperformance.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 20 2011 11:01 AM Re: Jason Bay

Yeah, I'm sure that Sandy would have little trouble releasing Jason Bay just before, or during, the 2013 season. (Especially with that 2014 option looming.) But can he find a creative way to unload Bay before then?

Centerfield Jul 20 2011 11:05 AM Re: Jason Bay

Sure. He needs to call the other owners in baseball and convince them what a great fit Omar Minaya would be as their next GM.

Gwreck Jul 20 2011 11:11 AM Re: Jason Bay

If the money is a sunk cost (it is) and the Mets aren't going anywhere this year (they aren't) then I would just continue to play him every day this year. You bring him in, sit him down and tell him that he's got until the end of the year to show he's a quality player. If not, he's going to be nothing more than a backup going forward from now until the end of this horrible contract, and that Duda/Evans/Murphy/whomever is going to be the starter.

Ashie62 Jul 20 2011 11:33 AM Re: Jason Bay

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think he'd be well suited for a role as a crafty veteran pinch hitter, who you call on when you need somebody to ground into a double play. I wonder if Bay would be open to an "early retirement" package? Offer him $6 million at the end of the season to just walk away. He'd gain two years to spend with his kids, rather than flailing futilely in front of booing throngs. The $6 million alone would set him for life, even if he didn't already have millions in the bank. Yeah, I know. He wouldn't go for it, his agent wouldn't go for it, and the players union wouldn't go for it. But I think it would be a nice way out of this mess for everybody. The Union wouldn't go for it, but as for Bay...he is Canadian.

dgwphotography Jul 20 2011 01:48 PM Re: Jason Bay

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think he'd be well suited for a role as a crafty veteran pinch hitter, who you call on when you need somebody to ground into a double play. He really has become an overpaid Tom Paciorek...

seawolf17 Jul 20 2011 01:51 PM Re: Jason Bay

dgwphotography wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think he'd be well suited for a role as a crafty veteran pinch hitter, who you call on when you need somebody to ground into a double play. He really has become an overpaid Tom Paciorek... HOLY CRAP that is terrifying.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 20 2011 02:07 PM Re: Jason Bay

The team needs to stop offering contracts with vesting clauses.

Edgy DC Jul 20 2011 02:11 PM Re: Jason Bay

I don't want to view all vesting options as the same. The only way he gets 600 trips in 2013 for the Mets will be if he profoundly rebounds. Well structured, they should provide some protection to both player and team.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 20 2011 02:18 PM Re: Jason Bay

Yeah, the vesting portion isn't the problem with Jason Bay's contract. It can and will be easily avoided.

Ashie62 Jul 20 2011 02:47 PM Re: Jason Bay

Somebody get Bay some Stanazol.