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Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

Frayed Knot Jun 14 2011 11:17 AM

... or whatever the exact title is. Anyway, it's a very nicely done hour-long HBO documentary on the two opposites who formed tennis's best rivalry from quite possibly its best era. Gets an extra thumbs-up from me as Borg was one of my favorite athletes of all time.

Vic Sage Jun 14 2011 11:23 AM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

i always thought that STAR TREK named the Borg after Bjorn Borg, for his machine-like efficiency and emotionless style. they probably didn't, but i like to think they did.

metirish Jun 14 2011 11:59 AM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

Watched it Saturday night , enjoyed it and brought back memories of when I really enjoyed watching and playing tennis, I miss the serve and volley game , last player I really liked was Patrick Rafter. Interesting that McEnroe really missed and came to realize needed Borg after he retired, Borg coming back ten years later with a wood racket was was interesting and showed how much the game was changing, watching the video of their games I wondered if either would make it against the current crop.

Frayed Knot Jun 14 2011 12:39 PM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

The one thing that was news to me was the part about how close the two were at the time. They were so outwardly different that I don't think it ever occurred to me that they'd even be on speaking terms much less be as much like friends as you can be while living a continent apart and battling it out in that sort of environment. I'm certainly no tennis expert, but it always seemed to me that McEnroe was a creature of his time, that the novelty of his spinning left-handed serve and the magical touch he had wouldn't have succeeded in the era of high-power rackets and larger more athletic players. The normal sized (J-Mac was a skinny-ish 5' 11" or so) country club set which thrived in tennis for so long was suddenly being replaced by 6' 3" boomers like Yannick Noah and Boris Becker with rocket serves coming off the high-tech howitzers attached to their hands which simply blew away the deft and creative generation before them. Borg, while not huge (6' 1"?), had a great build and was a conditioning freak which I think would have given him the chance to compete in the later era - at least had he not taken nearly a decade off and then made no upgrade in equipment. Think of some 1980s-era golfer using woods made of actual wood trying to compete in this week's U.S. Open against today's crowd using their metal drivers with titanium shafts and heads the size of a door-stop. i always thought that STAR TREK named the Borg after Bjorn Borg, for his machine-like efficiency and emotionless style. they probably didn't, but i like to think they did. I'd bet 'Yes' on that one. The funny part was that Borg talked about how much he burned inside but just kept it hidden so well. The one time I saw him argue with the umpire he walked up to the chair and just laid a cold Nordic glare at him. Several warnings were given but Bjorn never moved and seemingly never blinked. When he had accumulated enough penalty points to lose that game he simply walked back to the baseline and continued the set. Never said a word the entire time.

Edgy DC Jun 14 2011 07:34 PM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

Did I read somewhere that BB developed a heroin habit that ate through his funds and led to his failed comeback.

Frayed Knot Jun 14 2011 08:08 PM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

Edgy DC wrote: Did I read somewhere that BB developed a heroin habit that ate through his funds and led to his failed comeback. Wasn't mentioned in the piece and I certainly don't recall any such stories. He did lose a ton of cash due to bad investments including a clothing line gone bad. There was also a sleeping pill issue that landed him in the hospital for like an hour that stirred stories of attempted suicides and such. But he claimed the comeback was never about money (don't they all?) and he's financially good now. Also looks great for whatever that's worth. The beard is gone and the hair is more tamed and has gone silver but he still looks like he could play a few sets.

Ashie62 Jun 14 2011 08:20 PM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

Borg denies drug rumors and suicide attempt. Also neither man won a major after the age of 25. http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/22/sport ... erior.html

soupcan Jun 15 2011 11:17 AM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

Haven't seen 'Fire & Ice' so I don't know if this was mentioned but Tatum O'Neal was on Howard Stern this morning and alluded to the fact that McEnroe blamed her for his losing the number #1 ranking and never being able to regain it or return to the level he had previously been at.

Frayed Knot Jun 15 2011 11:36 AM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

She was mentioned a few times, mostly in context with both players having gone through "off-court distractions", ie, divorces. Part of the slant of the show was to show how neither player won a Grand Slam after the age of 26 because they no longer had the ability to feed off of each other. Probably partly true, although the skewing of the game of tennis towards such a young age and the desire at some point to break away from the game that's consumed them since early teens to a more normal life has a lot to do with it also. Marriages, children, and other outside interests that exist at age 25 where they didn't at 17 are certainly a big factor. Whether McEnroe claims that Tatum (who at some point developed major drug habits) was especially distracting to a top athlete wasn't mentioned and I think that was all a bit later on anyway.

soupcan Jun 15 2011 11:45 AM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

Not to go all off-topic on you but Tatum said that she did not do drugs while married to McEnroe and it was only after the marriage fell apart and the divorce turned bitter that she started her habits. She blamed the collapse of her marriage on her upbringing, basically saying that her incredibly fucked up parents gave her zero tools in terms of dealing with relationships and were at best poor role models.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 15 2011 12:13 PM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 15 2011 12:15 PM

Should have married Kelly Leak like she was supposed to. Semi-related uninteresting factoid: Howard Stern and Bjorn Borg were both on our weekly swimming pool cleaning route for awhile. They didn't live far from one another.

metirish Jun 15 2011 12:14 PM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

One thing I found interesting and it comes directly form the program is that even though Borg quit at 25 by his own admission he was feeling that way for at least a year and more, only three years separate those guys but when Borg was thinking of quitting McEnroe was only 21/22 and entering his prime, Borg was already burnt out. Great scene with Charlie Steiner getting in to a fight with one of the Brit hacks during a McEnroe press conference , the Brits really did't like him at all and it caused a lot of friction among the guys from the US.

Ashie62 Jun 15 2011 02:32 PM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Should have married Kelly Leak like she was supposed to. Semi-related uninteresting factoid: Howard Stern and Bjorn Borg were both on our weekly swimming pool cleaning route for awhile. They didn't live far from one another. Stern & Borg cleaned swimming pools?

Frayed Knot Jun 15 2011 02:57 PM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

Ashie62 wrote: Should have married Kelly Leak like she was supposed to. Semi-related uninteresting factoid: Howard Stern and Bjorn Borg were both on our weekly swimming pool cleaning route for awhile. They didn't live far from one another. Stern & Borg cleaned swimming pools? It's a little known fact, but yes, yes they did.

Edgy DC Jun 16 2011 07:06 AM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

You guys work with Buttermaker?

dgwphotography Jun 17 2011 10:34 AM Re: Borg & McEnroe: Fire & Ice

i always thought that STAR TREK named the Borg after Bjorn Borg, for his machine-like efficiency and emotionless style. they probably didn't, but i like to think they did. I always thought it was a shortening of 'cyborg'. The funny thing is this exchange in Star Trek: First Contact: After Picard first mentions the Borg to Lily in FC, she says: "Borg, sounds Swedish." Later when she sees them she says: "Definitely not Swedish."