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Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltran)

Edgy DC Jul 26 2011 07:46 AM

Pelfrey needs to shut up and pitch. The one who can save Carlos (who could have saved Carlos already) is the one in the mirror, Mike. Seriously, I hate when folks whine that their team should be acquiring better players at the deadline. They acquired you. Make them look good for it. Anyhow, Pelf and Collins are rhetorically sparring to Mike F. Puma here about poormouthing, and it's not hard to get the idea here (unless you're Mike) that Pelfrey's Met life is on the line. Collins warns Mets before win over Reds Mets Blog Mets on Twitter By MIKE F. PUMA CINCINNATI -- Subliminal messages -- the same kind manager Terry Collins says have no place in the Mets' universe -- are starting to permeate the clubhouse walls. Negative vibes hit Mike Pelfrey just about every time he hears another trade rumor about Carlos Beltran, who will likely be dealt before Sunday's non-waiver deadline. "I understand that if you want to get something back for him you have to trade him," Pelfrey told The Post before the Mets beat the Reds 4-2 last night. "But in the same sense I would think if we ended up getting rid of him, the front office's view is that we don't have a chance, because he gives us our best chance to win. If he's not here, then they felt we can't rebound from where we're at." The Mets (51-51) desperately want to believe they are alive. Last night they received 6 2/3 strong innings from R.A. Dickey and a four-run outburst in the seventh to snap a two-game skid. Pelfrey's pessimism -- or is it pragmatism? -- is exactly the kind of talk Collins doesn't want to hear. The manager conducted his pre-game chat with the media several minutes after Pelfrey made that comment, unknown to Collins, and was asked what kind of chatter in the clubhouse would alarm him in the aftermath of a Beltran trade. "You're going to hear guys say, 'The front office is giving up on us,' or 'We don't have a chance now' or 'We didn't get much for him,' " Collins said. Then he offered a warning shot: "We've got guys that are playing for their jobs, too. The minute they give up and quit, they won't be here next year. (OUCH, MIKE!) I want the guys to play 162 [games] and play hard." Pelfrey said there are too many professionals in the clubhouse for the Mets, who began last night's play 8½ games behind the Braves in the wild-card race, to give up. But he also has been with the team long enough to question the organization's mentality around the trade deadline. "In the past we've kind of been close, and moves are kind of made at the deadline where guys are kind of like 'We could have used this, we could have used that and been right there,' " Pelfrey said. "It hasn't happened a couple of times, and I know it's kind of gotten to some guys." Pelfrey wants the best for Beltran. "For his sake, I hope he goes wherever he goes and wins it all," Pelfrey said. Beltran played a supporting role last night, with a sacrifice fly in the seventh that accounted for the Mets' first run. Daniel Murphy's 2-for-5 performance that included a two-run double in the seventh fueled the Mets' 11-hit attack. Dickey (5-8) allowed two earned runs on eight hits with seven strikeouts and one walk to record his first victory since June 28. Jason Isringhausen loaded the bases in the ninth before striking out Brandon Phillips to end it and earn career save No. 296. Dickey said his faith in Isringhausen never wavered. "I believe in the old man," Dickey said. "He has a lot of tricks up his sleeve." Collins, as much as anybody, would miss Beltran. But the manager says it's his job to remind the players they can still be successful without their All-Star right fielder. "I want to see how they react to the whole situation," Collins said. "What the mood in the clubhouse will be, what the conversations are about and then have a feel for it, and if it's stuff I don't like and it needs to be addressed, certainly address it immediately."

Ceetar Jul 26 2011 07:56 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

Pelf needs to realize this year is not last year. different FO, etc. But what it boils down to is that Alderson himself said it'd be a white flag if they traded Beltran, and cited the last week or so, where the Mets went 5-6. Had they gone 8-3 they'd be 4 losses back of the Braves and maybe Beltran wouldn't be going anywhere. So if the FO appears to 'give up' on them, it's because they basically deserved it.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 26 2011 08:02 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

It occurred to me a few days ago that it's quite possible that Mike Pelfrey will be non-tendered this offseason.

Ceetar Jul 26 2011 08:04 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

Benjamin Grimm wrote: It occurred to me a few days ago that it's quite possible that Mike Pelfrey will be non-tendered this offseason. It's been a common sentiment for a while now. Personally I doubt it, but either him or Dickey are probably the clear 'upgrade' targets if they're going to go after a good pitcher.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2011 08:06 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

If they don't want him, he's probably got trade value, no?

bmfc1 Jul 26 2011 08:06 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

Pelfrey should just STFU. "But in the same sense I would think if we ended up getting rid of him, the front office's view is that we don't have a chance...." The only time the Mets "don't have a chance" is when he pitches.

TransMonk Jul 26 2011 08:13 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

quoting Terry Collins, Mike Puma wrote: "We've got guys that are playing for their jobs, too. The minute they give up and quit, they won't be here next year. I want the guys to play 162 [games] and play hard." I love this quote. Nice one, Terry! I'm getting a little sick of Pelf. It's bad enough that he has been the shittiest starter we have this year. He doesn't need to be the whiniest as well.

seawolf17 Jul 26 2011 08:16 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

I've been banging the "trade Pelf" drum for a while now.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 26 2011 08:27 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

Tracky's report in the Snooze this morning expressed the same sentiment but didn't identify the poormouthers. He presented disappointment at no reinforcements leading to poor second-half play last year as fact. I guess in some ways getting Pelfrey straightened out is a test of Terry's leadership in itself, but if it fails it fails. What Pelfrey probably meant to say was "Let's trade Beltran to the Pirates and become Pirates fans."

Ceetar Jul 26 2011 08:39 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

even Wright questioned the FO moves last August. I would hope the players realize this year is pretty different.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 26 2011 09:19 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read a few reports that said that there is zero interest among other teams in trading for Mike Pelfrey. The fear, I assume, is that his arbitration award is going to significantly higher than his value.

Ceetar Jul 26 2011 09:24 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read a few reports that said that there is zero interest among other teams in trading for Mike Pelfrey. The fear, I assume, is that his arbitration award is going to significantly higher than his value. It is Boras, but I'd find it hard to believe, unless Pelfrey doesn't allow another run this season, that an abitrator would grant him a raise off this season. $4 mill doesn't really seem like a ton for a starter like Pelfrey.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 26 2011 09:37 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

One of the things about Pelfrey is that if he weren't on the Mets he'd be the kind of pitcher we'd prolly look to take a chance on. He looks like a change-of-scenery guy or maybe even a change-of-role guy. It's not unimaginable that Pelfrey becomes, for example, the best closer in Arizona Diamondbacks history.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2011 09:53 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

I agree. He's strong. He's intimidatingly large and athletic. He's got a history of health. He throws 96. He's got sink. There's probably a pitching coach or manager or pitcher or shrink or woman or man out there that can help him turn those ingredients into a recipe for a tasty stew of success.

Ceetar Jul 26 2011 09:55 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

Edgy DC wrote: I agree. He's strong. He's intimidatingly large and athletic. He's got a history of health. He throws 96. He's got sink. There's probably a pitching coach or manager or pitcher or shrink or woman or man out there that can help him turn those ingredients into a recipe for a tasty stew of success. I'd rather keep the talent and get a new pitching coach.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2011 09:57 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

I'm not advocating a trade. Nor am I suggesting that the person or persons to turn him around are or aren't or the job. I'm saying that he's not a lost cause. And I don't think those in the market would necessarily believe that he is.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 26 2011 10:13 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

I don't think he's a lost cause either. But if he goes through arbitration, he may end up getting more money than teams want to pay him. Once he's non-tendered (if such a thing does in fact come to pass) I'm sure there will be a bunch of teams interested in picking him up. Without salary as part of the consideration, he's certainly worth keeping.

TransMonk Jul 26 2011 10:18 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

I would not go as far as saying he is a lost cause. But, I think I've stopped thinking that he will eventually be something that he's clearly not. I don't think he'll ever be able to be consistently relied upon as a top of the rotation stater. He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel.

seawolf17 Jul 26 2011 10:19 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

TransMonk wrote: I would not go as far as saying he is a lost cause. But, I think I've stopped thinking that he will eventually be something that he's clearly not. I don't think he'll ever be able to be consistently relied upon as a top of the rotation stater. He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel. And a head case, too. Let him be someone else's problem.

attgig Jul 26 2011 10:30 AM Re: Let's Trade Beltran to the Pirates and Become Pirate Fan

Ceetar wrote: So if the FO appears to 'give up' on them, it's because they basically deserved it. my sentiments exactly.

attgig Jul 26 2011 10:38 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

good writeup of pelf's value: http://www.amazinavenue.com/2011/7/19/2 ... ng-pelfrey The article projects 5-6 mil for next year, which would be paying for his WAR - even dollars. not over pay or under pay. I worry about the value of his contract. the only thing he really has going for himself if it goes down to an arbi hearing is the innings pitched. he's on pace for 200 ip, and has hit 200 a couple times already...and that alone may bring that over 6 mil.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2011 10:43 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Decision for another day. Today they see if there are buyers for him.

Ashie62 Jul 26 2011 12:07 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

TransMonk wrote: I would not go as far as saying he is a lost cause. But, I think I've stopped thinking that he will eventually be something that he's clearly not. I don't think he'll ever be able to be consistently relied upon as a top of the rotation stater. He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel. Pelfrey reminds of Heilman..1/3 success 1/3 Failure 1/3 Aggravation...

batmagadanleadoff Jul 26 2011 12:13 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

So how many modern pitchers can you think of that struggled while pitching regularly for about five seasons, before becoming very successful? Sandy Koufax is the obvious example. Mike Scott's another. Any others?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 26 2011 12:24 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Lots of relief pitchers. I'd guess most guys though have a mix of success and failure. Pelfrey's 2010 was a step ahead, 11 a step back.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 26 2011 02:45 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

TransMonk wrote: He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel. This might be the most quietly damning thing I've ever read about any Met ever. (It's like saying, "You don't want to shop there-- that's the bad K-Mart.")

TransMonk Jul 26 2011 03:02 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Hey now...that's not really what I meant. I say Trachsel was an important part of the 2006 Mets. He wasn't going to be the best pitcher out there, but you knew that he was going to take the ball every fifth day and keep a very good offense in the game. :) FWIW, Trachsel's stats in his 6 year Mets career are better than Pelfrey's in his 6 years.

metsmarathon Jul 26 2011 06:39 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

for what it's worth, pelfrey's list of similary pitchers through age 26 includes such names as todd stottlemyre, jason marquis, jason schmidt, pat hentgen, and john lackey. not necessarily world beaters, but some solid, if continually maddening, contributors.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2011 08:22 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Trachs, of course, gave the Mets his six peak years, such as they were. Nice list. Maybe Pelf should change his first name to Jason.

metirish Aug 13 2011 08:35 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Saturday's news reports: • Mike Pelfrey tells Mike Puma in the Post: "It's unrealistic for anybody at the end of last year to come in and say, 'The Mets, this is a one-year thing, next year we're going to win it all.' It's unrealistic." Puma then quoted an anonymous teammate saying: "He's cutting his own throat. What's his record, six and nine? He's supposed to be the ace of the (bleeping) staff. Why don't you go and win 12 or 13 games?" Pelfrey added: "The way this year has gone, (the fans) probably don't want me back. ... This organization is headed in the right direction. The front office has done a lot of smart things, and in the end this organization is going to have a chance to be in the playoffs every year." http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/p ... -8-12-11-2

Gwreck Aug 13 2011 08:52 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

What a moron. Less talk, more performance please.

smg58 Aug 13 2011 08:54 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

I'm not overly concerned about Pelfrey next year. If (a big if obviously) Johan is healthy, a rotation of Santana, Dickey, Niese, Pelfrey, and Gee does not require tinkering with. Especially if Pelfrey rebounds as he's done twice in the past. Plus, the team has an enormous amount of pitching talent in the pipeline for 2013. I don't think this offseason is the time to consider parting ways with Pelfrey. But that doesn't mean that "shut up and pitch better" wouldn't be very sound advice...

Ceetar Aug 13 2011 09:48 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

smg58 wrote: I'm not overly concerned about Pelfrey next year. If (a big if obviously) Johan is healthy, a rotation of Santana, Dickey, Niese, Pelfrey, and Gee does not require tinkering with. Especially if Pelfrey rebounds as he's done twice in the past. Plus, the team has an enormous amount of pitching talent in the pipeline for 2013. I don't think this offseason is the time to consider parting ways with Pelfrey. But that doesn't mean that "shut up and pitch better" wouldn't be very sound advice... I'm pondering signing a 6th guy and tinkering with Dickey in the bullpen actually, but it might be hard to do that if he's been the best pitcher this year. (which is probably up for debate, but it's either him or Niese)

metirish Aug 13 2011 09:33 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

It's amazing , once again a quote from a jock was "taken out of context" and " blown out of proportion" , just like every other perceived negative quote EVER.

Ceetar Aug 14 2011 07:42 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

metirish wrote: It's amazing , once again a quote from a jock was "taken out of context" and " blown out of proportion" , just like every other perceived quote EVER. fixed.

MFS62 Aug 14 2011 08:09 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

If Pelfrey is on the Mets next year, and not considered to be the #1 -#3 starter, I'm almost ok with that. If he isn't on the Mets next year, I won't lose any sleep over it, either. Later

metsmarathon Aug 14 2011 09:17 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

i'm always a little bit pollyanna about these things, and an often give ceetar a run for his rose-colored glasses' money on the optimism side. and when i read the full article, it sure as hell seems to me that mike pelfrey is having a heartfelt conversation that mike puma has baited him into for the purposes of a sensationalistic article. "PELFREY DIDN'T BELIEVE IN METS!" who the fuck did? hell, i don't think even ceetar had them picked for the division! :p the most optimistic of mets fans would probably have been happy with a 500 season. the pessimists would have been floored by one. but, no. it's shocking and appalling for him to speak his mind on the matter. what nerve! what a jerk! shut up and pitch! cut him! he sucks! he's a headcase! go lick your hand someplace else! get rid of him! we don't believe in you, either! ok, some of that is fair. he licks his hand waaaaaaaaay too much. and he probably is a headcase to an extent. (probably to the same extent that each of us is a headcase, btw) but the only thing he did wrong in speaking with mike puma was in speaking sincerely to a man who was clearly not.

themetfairy Aug 14 2011 09:21 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

He had an independent thought. Big fucking deal.

Ashie62 Aug 14 2011 11:03 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Ceetar wrote: smg58 wrote: I'm not overly concerned about Pelfrey next year. If (a big if obviously) Johan is healthy, a rotation of Santana, Dickey, Niese, Pelfrey, and Gee does not require tinkering with. Especially if Pelfrey rebounds as he's done twice in the past. Plus, the team has an enormous amount of pitching talent in the pipeline for 2013. I don't think this offseason is the time to consider parting ways with Pelfrey. But that doesn't mean that "shut up and pitch better" wouldn't be very sound advice... I'm pondering signing a 6th guy and tinkering with Dickey in the bullpen actually, but it might be hard to do that if he's been the best pitcher this year. (which is probably up for debate, but it's either him or Niese) Or Gee maybe?

smg58 Aug 14 2011 12:10 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Dickey leads the starters in ERA and IP. Given how awful he was the first six weeks of the season, it's impossible to complain about a 3.75 ERA. The record is a reflection of extremely unlucky run support more than anything else. The more I think about the Pelfrey/Trachsel analogy, the more I like it. They're both decent pitchers who showed enough flashes to make some people think they were more than that. But that's OK. I can't imagine anybody really expected Pelfrey to pitch like an ace this year. He may have been the favorite to lead the staff, and it's certainly disappointing that he's been arguably the 5th best starter, but he hasn't been dreadful.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 14 2011 12:11 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

I'm a lot less bothered by Pelf's ill-advised (mayhaps), candid comments and what they reveal than the earlier ones from the team's owner. The cost of keeping the former's speaker in his place is a lot less, too.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 14 2011 12:27 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

I wanna know what the hell happened to that 97+MPH fast ball Pelf had in college. Talk about false advertising. I wonder if Pelf ever asked the Mets for his old college uniform number?

Edgy DC Aug 14 2011 12:57 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

It's not the velocity that bugs me. He usually sits at 94, peaks at 96. He probably sat at 93 yesterday, but it's the second half of the season, and he's not 21 no more. It's the pitch sequence that gets me. He seems to get ahead and then back into counts that favor the batter.

Fman99 Aug 14 2011 01:35 PM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

themetfairy wrote: He had an independent thought. Big fucking deal. I'm telling Skynet on you.

Ceetar Aug 15 2011 06:58 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Edgy DC wrote: It's not the velocity that bugs me. He usually sits at 94, peaks at 96. He probably sat at 93 yesterday, but it's the second half of the season, and he's not 21 no more. It's the pitch sequence that gets me. He seems to get ahead and then back into counts that favor the batter. And I'm not turning this into a different debate, but who do you think teaches him pitch sequence? And it's not even that. Who's in charge of _correcting_ what appears to be a poor sequence? Pelfrey is here, and there's a fair shot he'll continue to be here. So whether or not we think it's an Ace or scum or whatever, bring guys in that maximize the tools we have. whether it's a pitching coach or a veteran pitcher or a catcher. But it's probably not that simple. He gets ahead because batters aren't afraid to swing and miss and guess with less than 2 strikes. Pelfrey often lacks either the control/ability of a pitch to fool guys, or simply isn't setting them up properly.

Edgy DC Aug 15 2011 07:20 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Ceetar wrote: And I'm not turning this into a different debate, but who do you think teaches him pitch sequence? Oh, yes, you are, you dickens, you.

Ceetar Aug 15 2011 07:22 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: And I'm not turning this into a different debate, but who do you think teaches him pitch sequence? Oh, yes, you are, you dickens, you. No, really, I'm agreeing with you and just pondering how to best go about fixing it.

attgig Aug 15 2011 09:32 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

smg58 wrote: Dickey leads the starters in ERA and IP. Given how awful he was the first six weeks of the season, it's impossible to complain about a 3.75 ERA. The record is a reflection of extremely unlucky run support more than anything else. The more I think about the Pelfrey/Trachsel analogy, the more I like it. They're both decent pitchers who showed enough flashes to make some people think they were more than that. But that's OK. I can't imagine anybody really expected Pelfrey to pitch like an ace this year. He may have been the favorite to lead the staff, and it's certainly disappointing that he's been arguably the 5th best starter, but he hasn't been dreadful. we got a few CONSISTENT years out of Trachsel. Pelf on the other hand...not so much.... flashes of goodness (i won't even say brilliance).... with lots of mediocrity. it was a mistake to think he'd be an ace, and like someone else said...he'll should come back as a #4/#5 pitcher next year.

Edgy DC Aug 15 2011 09:40 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

I'm also in dispute as to whether people (or anybody) thought Trachsel was more than he was. I'm not comfortable with the Trachsel/Pelfrey analogy in general --- Trax was a mid-career free agent, Pelf a draftee; Trax had pitchability, Pelf has stuff; Trax was a dork, Pelf is a dude; Trax was clinical, Pelf is emotional; etc.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 15 2011 09:50 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Yeah, the main thing that Pelfrey and Trachsel have in common is that they didn't pitch as well as we wanted them to. They're certainly not the only two to fit that category. For me, the decision about Pelfrey comes down to these questions: How much will he get paid next year? Is he worth that amount? Can the Mets replace him with someone better and/or cheaper? My hunch is that he won't be back next year, one way or another, but it's just a hunch, and not an especially strong one. I won't be shocked if he returns, but I think he'll be gone.

TransMonk Aug 15 2011 10:09 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

TransMonk wrote: I don't think he'll ever be able to be consistently relied upon as a top of the rotation stater. He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel. Pelf as a Met: 49-50, 4.35, 93+ Trachs as a Met: 66-59, 4.09, 103+ Nothing to do with how they were acquired or their stuff or their "dudeness".

Edgy DC Aug 15 2011 10:21 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Which is, quite honestly, off the charts.

attgig Aug 15 2011 10:46 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

TransMonk wrote: TransMonk wrote: I don't think he'll ever be able to be consistently relied upon as a top of the rotation stater. He's a poor man's Steve Trachsel. Pelf as a Met: 49-50, 4.35, 93+ Trachs as a Met: 66-59, 4.09, 103+ Nothing to do with how they were acquired or their stuff or their "dudeness". Trax years as met: 11-13, 4.46, 94 11-11, 3.37, 119 16-10, 3.78, 111 12-13, 4.00, 107 1-4, 4.14, 100 15-8, 4.97, 94 pelf years as met: 2-1, 5.48, 81 3-8, 5.57, 78 13-11, 3.72, 113 10-12, 5.03, 81 15-9, 3.66, 108 6-9, 4.53, 84 lots of growing pains for pelf (looks actually closer to trax's yonger days when he was on the cubs). maybe in a few years, he'll become a rich man's trax, considering pelf is already earning more than trax's first year with the mets... nonetheless, not a great investment until he can be more consistent.

seawolf17 Aug 15 2011 11:22 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Pelf's similarity scores are eerily fascinating and really tell you nothing: Similar Pitchers through 26 - and what they did after age 26 Johnny Marcum (982) - 1933-1939, so it's largely irrelevant. Todd Stottlemyre (980) - Very Pelfian numbers in the AL, but turned it on in STL and had a pretty solid second half of his career. Kip Wells (975) - Went on to lead the NL in losses with PIT in 2005 (18) and with STL in 2007 (17), then imploded. Was a Duck in 2010. Ricky Bones (973) - Became a middle reliever, then a pitching coach. Pete Redfern (973) - Went 5-11, 6.58 in 1982 at age 27, then vanished. Jason Marquis (973) - Led the NL in losses in 2006 (17) at 27, and despite Metly overtures, has been largely forgettable. Adam Eaton (973) - Got progressively worse each year; out of baseball at 31. Jason Schmidt (970) - Got more productive, actually; three ASG appearances and two near-Cy Youngs in his 30s. Pat Hentgen (969) - Won a Cy Young at 27 with Toronto, then grew crazy meatchops and started to wash out two years later. John Lackey (969) - Lit up the AL with Anaheim, but has been pedestrian in Boston the last two years and is now 32. Most Similar by Ages 24. John Lackey (992) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C 25. Jason Schmidt (985) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C 26. Johnny Marcum (982) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

bmfc1 Aug 15 2011 11:44 AM Re: Pelfrey's Mouth and Value (split from Let's Trade Beltra

Trade him to Florida for Logan Morrison.