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Once Upon a Quinceñera

Edgy DC Jul 27 2011 06:14 PM

The Top Fifteen 15s in Met History [list=1][*]Carlos Beltran, 2005-2011[/*:m] [*]Jerry Grote, 1966-1977[/*:m] [*]George Foster, 1982-1986[/*:m] [*]Al Jackson, 1962-1965[/*:m] [*]Jose Vizcaino, 1994-1996[/*:m] [*]Matt Franco, 1996-2000[/*:m] [*]Rick Aguilera, 1987-1988[/*:m] [*]Ron Darling, 1989-1991[/*:m] [*]Claudell Washington, 1980[/*:m] [*]Richard Hidalgo, 2004[/*:m] [*]Jeff McKnight, 1989[/*:m] [*]Don Aase, 1989[/*:m] [*]Brady Clark, 2002[/*:m] [*]Butch Benton, 1978[/*:m] [*]Kevin Elster, 1992[/*:m][/list:o] Class of '81, Outside, Looking In: Dave Roberts, 1981 Brian Giles, 1981 At least six of these guys, to my knowledge, wore a different number in addition to 15, which is pretty strange, because 15 is nothing to sneeze at. Pretty funny what similar animals Washington and Hidalgo were, but Claudell rebuilt his career after his half season with the Mets, and Ricardo just faded.

seawolf17 Jul 27 2011 07:16 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

Franco ahead of Vizcaino, methinks.

Edgy DC Jul 27 2011 07:18 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

We'll have the gremlins look into it.

Edgy DC Jul 27 2011 07:24 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

The gremlins asked the gnomes to do some math. The gnomes said they did but they actually just called up baseball-reference.com, which gave Vizcaino a total of 1.5 WAR with the Mets, and Matt Franco a blushworthy -.3. I don't think WAR is particularly fair to pinch-hitters or relievers, not taking into account the high-leverage situations in which they more frequently appear, but that's a large gap. Or so the gremlins say.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 27 2011 07:26 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

If you're ranking by Metliness, Franco wins that one.

seawolf17 Jul 27 2011 07:30 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

Stop using stats as a crutch, especiallly when you're comparing apples and oranges due to playing time. Vizcaino was worthless offensively for some terrible teams. Franco was an important cog on multiple contending teams.

Edgy DC Jul 27 2011 07:45 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

Really, I meant to compare Mets to Mets, batters to batters, and 15s to 15s. Viz was a good player. Had the best-ever offensive season as a Met shortstop before Reyes came along.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 27 2011 09:03 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

seawolf17 wrote: Stop using stats as a crutch, especiallly when you're comparing apples and oranges due to playing time. Vizcaino was worthless offensively for some terrible teams. Franco was an important cog on multiple contending teams. Franco was USED as an important cog on multiple contending teams. A few key moments-- and their accompanying Metliness-- notwithstanding, he was actually kind of an inconspicuously awful cog (See also: "Lenny Harris").

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 27 2011 09:19 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

Viz was a better player than many remember for the Mets but his journeymanism vs. Franco's relative Met bloodlines IMO makes Franco a more representative Met No. 15 than Vizcaino. But I'll put it to the MBTN readership, if that exists anymore.

Edgy DC Jul 27 2011 09:23 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

Yeah, feel free to build a blog post off of this. I like that I (I think) coined a nickname in "Viz" and now it's catching on.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 27 2011 10:02 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

There was an article in a scorecard during the Vizcaino era titled "Nobody Beats the Viz" -- The Wiz being a big Mets sponsor then.

G-Fafif Jul 27 2011 10:14 PM Re: Once Upon a Quinceñera

There's probably some killjoy advanced statistic that will douse cold water on my recollections, but I remember thinking Vizcaino was darn good between 1994 and 1996, certainly a steal for Anthony Young. Was my runner-up all-time SS to Harrelson until Ordonez (now Harrelson is my runnerup to Reyes). But even without deducting points for going to the MFYs and fucking us over in Game One 2000, I'd still take M. Franco over Viz when 15s are being thrown around. Points will always be added for fucking over MFYs.