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NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Ceetar Aug 02 2011 08:53 AM

lost my 'embarassing franchise' thread about the Islanders somewhere. Well here's one for the 'new' season. new coliseum vote failed yesterday, so Nassau county's slated to get an empty parking lot with a seldom used crappy building by 2016. Probably a good play for Hofstra students to sneak off and smoke pot in. The Islanders traded Trent Hunter for Brian Rolston of the Devils recently. They've been "in on" but haven't "gotten" a couple of free agents so far, and some speculate that no one wants to play on Long Island in a crappy building (I'm sure that has something to do with it, but that they suck, don't spend money, etc, probaby has more to do with it)

seawolf17 Aug 02 2011 09:01 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

There seems to be great consternation about this in the twitterverse, but really? If enough people cared about the Islanders, then they would sell enough tickets to build their own building. It's sad to see them go, but not so sad that it's worth spending $400 million in taxpayer money to keep them.

metirish Aug 02 2011 09:02 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

So no new stadium for the Islanders?, tough times to be asking people to front you several hundred million.....voting on a Monday?

Willets Point Aug 02 2011 09:11 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

It's not like there's a shortage of arenas. They could share MSG or the new Nets arena in Brooklyn.

Ceetar Aug 02 2011 09:43 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

seawolf17 wrote: There seems to be great consternation about this in the twitterverse, but really? If enough people cared about the Islanders, then they would sell enough tickets to build their own building. It's sad to see them go, but not so sad that it's worth spending $400 million in taxpayer money to keep them. It's not that simple. And in fact, they tried to build their own building with their own money, and due to county/town regulations and what not, it was shot down. That's what the Lighthouse project was all about. Charles Wang wanted to build up that area with a new arena, among other things, so that both he and the Islanders would make money and a side effect would be a ton of new businesses and jobs in the area. He was shot down in everything he tried, and he's repeatedly stated that it's not financially feasible to run the team in the situation they are in. And the revenue to build it themselves is heavily tied into the building itself, which is not profitable for the Islanders due to things like the lease. They've seemingly been trying for a decade to try to become more self-sufficient and out from some of the red tape associated with all of that, but they haven't been able to.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 02 2011 09:50 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Oh well, what's one less hockey team. I mean, other than my friend Alan W from elementary school, nobody cares.

themetfairy Aug 02 2011 09:54 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

I'd miss the Isles. But then again, I think it's been 20 years since I've been to the Coliseum (although I have seen them in person at MSG recently).

Edgy DC Aug 02 2011 09:57 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

They should go back to Commack.

HahnSolo Aug 02 2011 10:03 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Is going to the Brooklyn arena too simple a solution? Why do I not hear this as an option? (thread title notwithstanding)

Ceetar Aug 02 2011 10:31 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

HahnSolo wrote: Is going to the Brooklyn arena too simple a solution? Why do I not hear this as an option? (thread title notwithstanding) i'm heard it floated, also heard the arena is not set up for hockey. It's also been the priority to stay in Long Island (not on Long Island, whatever..in Nassau) and they have a lease through 2015 I think so the actual decision they'll make a result of not staying at the Coliseum hasn't really been planned yet. There was also a rumor about Willets Point, but there is no way that's ready for 2015.

seawolf17 Aug 02 2011 10:39 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

I'm happy for our club hockey team. We got rid of Hofstra football and claimed that monopoly; now Stony Brook will have a hockey monopoly as well.

soupcan Aug 02 2011 10:50 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

I think it's great that the proposal got voted down. Enough with public funding of sports teams. Build schools, hire teachers, etc., etc. I hope this is just the beginning of a movement of communities refusing to bow down to team owner's threats of moving. Go ahead, move your lousy team see if we care. The rumor about Willets Point was floating around a year or so back. The Wilpon's were looking into building an arena in the Triangle to try and lure the Isles. This was pre-Madoff/Picard of course but still - it makes sense, and would be a perfect fit for all involved. The area gets to keep the Isles, it serves as another anchor to the redevelopment of that area and it makes Flushing the year-round destination that the Wilpons and City wants.

Edgy DC Aug 02 2011 10:54 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Yeah, I wouldn't write the 'Pons out of it at all.

Ceetar Aug 02 2011 10:55 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Nassau County is a better place with the Islanders and the jobs it creates than they are without the Islanders. And it's not like anyone's going to take the "money saved" and hire another teacher. No, they're going to continue to cut the funding and budgets there too. Also, the original proposal had more than just a Colliseum. It had things like low-income housing and office buildings. And mostly paid for privately. Same with Willets Point (which I think did/does have a school in the plans)

Willets Point Aug 02 2011 10:56 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Ceetar wrote: HahnSolo wrote: There was also a rumor about Willets Point, but there is no way that's ready for 2015. Wait, what are they saying about me!!!!

metirish Aug 02 2011 10:58 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Ceetar wrote: Nassau County is a better place with the Islanders and the jobs it creates than they are without the Islanders. And it's not like anyone's going to take the "money saved" and hire another teacher. No, they're going to continue to cut the funding and budgets there too. Also, the original proposal had more than just a Colliseum. It had things like low-income housing and office buildings. And mostly paid for privately. Same with Willets Point (which I think did/does have a school in the plans) jobs created and low income housing ?, they always get mentioned but the reality is often different.

Ceetar Aug 02 2011 12:29 PM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

metirish wrote: Ceetar wrote: Nassau County is a better place with the Islanders and the jobs it creates than they are without the Islanders. And it's not like anyone's going to take the "money saved" and hire another teacher. No, they're going to continue to cut the funding and budgets there too. Also, the original proposal had more than just a Colliseum. It had things like low-income housing and office buildings. And mostly paid for privately. Same with Willets Point (which I think did/does have a school in the plans) jobs created and low income housing ?, they always get mentioned but the reality is often different. true, but under the original plan they were going to build a ton of stuff. It's had to think that wasn't going to create jobs, even beyond the initial construction jobs. And wasn't going to cost the taxpayers much if anything. not to mention the income taxes. All that money that comes out of your paycheck? it comes out of the players too. they work in the county, and pay county taxes. soon it'll be gone. I'd be surprised of Nassau didn't lose money on the upkeep of that building for a half-dozen concerts and the circus once in a while.

Frayed Knot Aug 02 2011 12:51 PM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

And in fact, they tried to build their own building with their own money, and due to county/town regulations and what not, it was shot down. That's what the Lighthouse project was all about. Charles Wang wanted to build up that area with a new arena, among other things, so that both he and the Islanders would make money and a side effect would be a ton of new businesses and jobs in the area. He was shot down in everything he tried, and he's repeatedly stated that it's not financially feasible to run the team in the situation they are in. Except that it's never all with their own money. There are always tax breaks and various other accommodations made for guys who are willing to put up a chunk of money (as there was with CitiField, and with YSIII, and with the new Meadowlands, etc.) and how much public money was going to be involved was at least part of why Wang's various proposals never went through. And, yes, a HUGE part of this is the byzantine bureaucracy and long-entrenched corruption in Nassau County/Town of Hemstead that ever allowed things to get this far in the first place.

Ceetar Aug 02 2011 12:55 PM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Frayed Knot wrote: And in fact, they tried to build their own building with their own money, and due to county/town regulations and what not, it was shot down. That's what the Lighthouse project was all about. Charles Wang wanted to build up that area with a new arena, among other things, so that both he and the Islanders would make money and a side effect would be a ton of new businesses and jobs in the area. He was shot down in everything he tried, and he's repeatedly stated that it's not financially feasible to run the team in the situation they are in. Except that it's never all with their own money. There are always tax breaks and various other accommodations made for guys who are willing to put up a chunk of money (as there was with CitiField, and with YSIII, and with the new Meadowlands, etc.) and how much public money was going to be involved was at least part of why Wang's various proposals never went through. And, yes, a HUGE part of this is the byzantine bureaucracy and long-entrenched corruption in Nassau County/Town of Hemstead that ever allowed things to get this far in the first place. of course, there's always all that tax break/money/bonds/etc stuff involved. I know some people balk at the idea of even a practically miniscule amount of money more in taxes and hate change. But things like sports teams (and circuses and fairs and festivals and concerts) are good for society, are good for a neighborhood. It's not like people are being asked to contribute $100 a month to a new casino for the greater good.

G-Fafif Aug 02 2011 04:26 PM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

I've spent my whole life overhearing zilliionaire owners in other jurisdictions (including nearby Queens) caterwaul for new stadia/arenas or heavens, we just can't compete. First time I was directly asked to respond with my vote. I responded no. I like the Islanders just fine but Nassau County's got bigger problems. I'd welcome the Nets back, however, provided they brought red, white and blue basketballs with them.

Ceetar Aug 02 2011 09:03 PM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

G-Fafif wrote: I've spent my whole life overhearing zilliionaire owners in other jurisdictions (including nearby Queens) caterwaul for new stadia/arenas or heavens, we just can't compete. First time I was directly asked to respond with my vote. I responded no. I like the Islanders just fine but Nassau County's got bigger problems. I'd welcome the Nets back, however, provided they brought red, white and blue basketballs with them. There are always bigger problems. But that's not the question. Sure, it's an obvious answer if the question was "More jobs, or the Islanders?" "Hire some more teachers, or the Islanders?" "Pay the seasonal/part time workers better and give them insurance, or the Islanders?" But it's not that. It was "Do you want the Islanders? No? Okay. you're still paying taxes. We'll probably cut service on the LIRR btw. Oh, that pothole on Dutch Broadway? We'll get to it eventually. What, you want your streets plowed in a timely manner? Nah, we're strapped for cash and if we give the plows more hours we'll have to give them health care."

G-Fafif Aug 02 2011 11:12 PM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Brilliantly conceived and managed, let alone timed, per the Times. Fiscal Worries Fueled Defeat of Arena Plan By DAVID M. HALBFINGER Like voters everywhere, the people of Nassau County had watched helplessly as Congress and the White House played poker over the nation’s debt limit, with a potential fiscal and economic catastrophe hanging in the balance. Then, on Monday, they were given an opportunity to lash out, close to home, over something more comprehensible but not entirely dissimilar: the suggestion that their debt-ridden, overtaxed county should borrow and tax hundreds of millions of dollars more for a new arena for the once-proud New York Islanders hockey team. By a wide margin, they said no. The spectacular defeat for the Islanders’ owner, Charles B. Wang, and his allies in county government was caused by an unlikely but broad coalition: Tea Party members and Democratic leaders, elderly residents already worried about the fate of Social Security and Medicare, parents of young children and powerful real estate developers. It also raised the prospect that Long Island’s only major sports team — the winner of four Stanley Cups in the 1980s — might pick up and move in 2015, when its lease at the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum expires. In interviews on Tuesday across a dense slice of suburbia stretching from the 40-year-old coliseum in Uniondale to the county government complex in Mineola, voters still rattled by the federal showdown over the debt limit said they opposed the plan for a new arena. They explained that they were less concerned about the future of a faded hockey franchise than about paying their monthly bills. “I can’t afford a ticket to go to the Islanders,” said Alessandra de Bellegarde, 54, of Manhasset, a special education teacher. “I’m constantly watching so I don’t go over my budget. I wish politicians would do the same. Why are they saying they want this deal when people are cutting back on food and losing jobs?” At the Stop & Shop in Carle Place, Pat Marinacci, 68, a retired postal clerk, said property taxes in the county were already high enough. “I can’t imagine what made them think homeowners were going to pay for it,” she said. “The last thing we need is a new stadium,” she added. “It disregards the entire economic state of the union. It’s like, are we on the same planet?” Others called the proposal a giveaway that the county, whose finances were taken over by a state control board in January, could ill afford. “I think the people that are interested in the stadium should be able to pay for it,” said Joseph Gordon, 89, a retired business owner, as he shopped at a supermarket in Carle Place. “It’s a scam.” The arena plan — supported by Mr. Wang and the Nassau County executive, Edward P. Mangano — went not just against public opinion, but also against the tide in stadium construction, which has heavily favored private financing ever since a wave of publicly financed ballparks and arenas failed to generate the promised economic benefits. The San Diego Chargers football team has struggled even to get a ballot measure for a new stadium, and the suburb of Glendale, Ariz., faces lawsuits for trying to bail out the bankrupt Coyotes hockey team in exchange for the team’s dropping Phoenix from its name. Mr. Wang and Mr. Mangano had promised that a new arena, and an adjacent minor-league ballpark thrown in as a sweetener, would create new jobs and local revenues. But with the Islanders’ attendance the worst in the N.H.L. last season, they were unable to guarantee it. Rather than raising the $400 million price tag through a revenue bond paid off with incremental sales taxes and concession receipts, they proposed a general-obligation bond, which would be paid off with increased property taxes on county residents for the next 30 years. Bernie Lowsky, 72, a retired business owner, said he voted for the bond issue because he thought it would stimulate the economy and create jobs. But he confessed to another motive: He wanted a reason to buy season tickets again. “I was a big-time fan years ago, but now that they’re awful, I go considerably less,” he said. In hindsight, for Mr. Mangano, a Republican, the referendum campaign looked like a triple dose of political hemlock. First, he alienated the public workers’ unions, which would be a vital constituency in a re-election campaign, by spending $2.2 million on the ballot measure after laying off 128 county workers on July 1. “Services should come before sports,” said Jerry Laricchiuta, president of the Nassau civil servants’ union, the second-largest in New York State. Then Mr. Mangano outraged Tea Party groups, whose antitax fervor had secured his narrow and surprising victory over a Democratic incumbent in 2008. That incumbent had proposed an even bigger plan for a new Islanders arena, which would have been paid for by the team, not the public. And Mr. Mangano also infuriated the island’s wealthy and politically connected roster of real estate developers, each of whom wanted a fair chance at building on the coliseum site. “It’s probably the most expensive piece of property on Long Island,” said Desmond Ryan, executive director of the Association for a Better Long Island, the developers’ lobby. “It’s the crown jewel. And to sole-source that property to an individual just because he owned a hockey team made no sense.” Mr. Ryan’s group ran advertisements opposing the plan in weekly newspapers and on the radio. Tea Party members handed out leaflets at train stations. Meanwhile, Mr. Wang, in what some said was a tactical error, bought advertisements on television and in Newsday, appealing to his core supporters but also giving the issue wider exposure. The proponents of the stadium plan also did not count on the debt-limit showdown in Washington, which appeared to have heightened voters’ sensitivity to concerns about borrowing capacity, spending and fiscal responsibility. Mr. Ryan said that when he heard President Obama warn that retirees’ Social Security checks could be endangered if Congress did not vote to raise the debt limit, “I was sitting in my living room with my wife, saying, ‘I could kiss that guy right now.’ ” The result was a voter turnout of 17 percent — five times what proponents had expected for a Monday in August — and a rejection of the stadium plan, 57 percent to 43 percent. By late Tuesday, Mr. Mangano’s aides were privately playing down the failure of the proposal, suggesting that Mr. Mangano’s goal all along was to be able to say he had done all he could to keep the Islanders in Nassau. Now, if they leave, voters will have only themselves to blame. Publicly, however, Mr. Mangano was offering to field proposals from any developer interested in a new plan for the coliseum site, with or without a hockey team.

Ceetar Aug 03 2011 05:36 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

rough article, and definitely missing some key points. But what it does seem to drive home is that everyone, everywhere, is asking "What's in it for me" to the point that nothing will ever happen with that space.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 03 2011 10:32 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

It also raised the prospect that Long Island’s only major sports team...

Edgy DC Aug 03 2011 11:21 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

Economic reports say folks are choosing to save, rather than spend. I guess municipalities are just as jittery.

SteveJRogers Aug 04 2011 08:01 AM Re: NY/Kansas City/Brooklyn/Queens/Canada/etc Islanders

It also raised the prospect that Long Island’s only major sports team... This has been discussed: [url]http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/15100/f2_t15120.shtml Queens is NOT a part of Long Island, Mr. Met is a New York City boy!