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Mr. Collins

Edgy DC Aug 10 2011 10:24 AM

In the running for Manager of the Year? Discuss. No Met manager has ever won. The award was launched in 1983 or surely Gil Hodges would have. (Indeed, they should call it the Gil Hodges Award.) Davey Johnson was beaten out in 1984 by fellow first-year manager (and alum of George Bamberger's coaching staff) Jim Frey, 101-72. Naturally, once he established how good his team could be under him, his performance seemed less remarkable, and he never came as close after that. No manager ever repeats as Manager of the Year. Unless his name is Bobby Cox, who somehow managed to do it while winning six fewer games. Year Manager Team Division Finish Record 1983 Tommy Lasorda (1) Los Angeles Dodgers West 1st 91–71 1984 Jim Frey Chicago Cubs East 1st 96–65 1985 Whitey Herzog St. Louis Cardinals East 1st 101–61 1986 Hal Lanier Houston Astros West 1st 96–66 1987 Buck Rodgers Montréal Expos East 3rd 91–71 1988 Tommy Lasorda (2) Los Angeles Dodgers West 1st 94–67 1989 Don Zimmer Chicago Cubs East 1st 93–69 1990 Jim Leyland (1) Pittsburgh Pirates East 1st 95–67 1991 Bobby Cox (2) Atlanta Braves West 1st 94–68 1992 Jim Leyland (2) Pittsburgh Pirates East 1st 96–66 1993 Dusty Baker (1) San Francisco Giants West 2nd 103–59 1994 Felipe Alou Montréal Expos East 1st 74–40 1995 Don Baylor Colorado Rockies West 2nd 77–67 1996 Bruce Bochy San Diego Padres West 1st 91–71 1997 Dusty Baker (2) San Francisco Giants West 1st 90–72 1998 Larry Dierker Houston Astros Central 1st 102–60 1999 Jack McKeon (1) Cincinnati Reds Central 2nd 96–67 2000 Dusty Baker (3) San Francisco Giants West 1st 97–65 2001 Larry Bowa Philadelphia Phillies East 2nd 86–76 2002 Tony La Russa (4) St. Louis Cardinals Central 1st 97–65 2003 Jack McKeon (2) Florida Marlins East 2nd 75–49 2004 Bobby Cox (3) Atlanta Braves East 1st 96–66 2005 Bobby Cox (4) Atlanta Braves East 1st 90–72 2006 Joe Girardi Florida Marlins East 4th 78–84 2007 Bob Melvin Arizona Diamondbacks West 1st 90–72 2008 Lou Piniella (3) Chicago Cubs Central 1st 97–64 2009 Jim Tracy Colorado Rockies West 2nd 92–70 2010 Bud Black San Diego Padres West 2nd 90–72 Johnson won the less prestigious equivalent of the award in the American League in 1997. Valentine never won in either league, coming in third in 2000, behind Baker and LaRussa, and fifth in 1999. Look at that list. There's four established or certain Hall-of-Famers on it: LaSorda, LaRussa, LaCoxxa, and Herzog. Some others are well-respected and long-time successes like Leyland and McKeon. But Dusty Baker? Three times? All with the same team? All without winning a championship? Really? Who do you gotta sleep with to get one of these things?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 10 2011 10:26 AM Re: Mr. Collins

If the Pirates get a few games back, wouldn't Hurdle have the edge over Collins in the diminished-expectations subgroup? Among playoff contenders, Fredi Gonzalez-- though absolutely horrid in-game-- has dealt with as many injuries, no?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 10 2011 10:29 AM Re: Mr. Collins

Roenicke might get some love.

Edgy DC Aug 10 2011 10:32 AM Re: Mr. Collins

I certainly am not asking for a vote --- not with five-six games left in the season. Just speaking about whether he's a viable candidate, like Valdespin is a viable big league shortstop. Hurdle has seemed to lose that team and reagain them again two or three times now. I don't know how he does it, but they're 1-9 over their last ten and pretty much cooked. If he can get them home to port in once piece, I'd be impressed. As impressed as I've been with Collins, maybe.

Edgy DC Aug 10 2011 10:37 AM Re: Mr. Collins

Valentine missed it by just a few votes in 1987. And I'm sure he's won something like it in Japan.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 10 2011 10:40 AM Re: Mr. Collins

I think Terry's got a great shot. If he can pull them to the station at any more than 82 wins he can clear room on his shelf now.

Ceetar Aug 10 2011 10:42 AM Re: Mr. Collins

I think he's in the conversation. I think the Mets need to be closer to 85+ than 81-82 for him to win it. (85 has a poetic 2005 feel to it..)

batmagadanleadoff Aug 10 2011 10:46 AM Re: Mr. Collins

They're laughing all the way to the awards ceremony.

batmagadanleadoff Aug 10 2011 10:48 AM Re: Mr. Collins

It sounds so much better to say that only six of the other 15 NL teams have better records than the Mets, than it does to say that the Mets are a .500 team. Vote for Terry.

metirish Aug 10 2011 10:57 AM Re: Mr. Collins Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 10 2011 11:08 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think Terry's got a great shot. If he can pull them to the station at any more than 82 wins he can clear room on his shelf now. you really think that?, if he wins at .500(or slightly above) then I expect him not to take it as a sign that" hey this is not acceptable".

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 10 2011 11:03 AM Re: Mr. Collins

Sure. Guys like Bill Madden made up their minds about Terry a long time ago. They were perfectly prepared top call him a failure but when he didn't fail, he must be the best.

Centerfield Aug 10 2011 12:40 PM Re: Mr. Collins

I find it very hard to judge a manager's ability unless he is in a pennant race. Terry seems fine to me, but until we can get into a real pennant race, it's tough to tell what he's got. I'm with Lunchbucket. Roenicke probably takes this without much of a stretch.

attgig Aug 10 2011 12:56 PM Re: Mr. Collins

I'm not sure about win totals, but I think if the mets are not eliminated from the playoffs until the final 2 weeks, then he has a good shot. maintaining 500 record, and a hot streak in september would get voters attention at the right time. that coupled with trading away 2 of the teams best players, being without the ace, dealing with reyes' hamstring, finding viable options out of AAA'ers like turner and duda, getting mileage out of izzy, and Bay hitting again - it could be enough. but they won't hand out the awards unless you're making noise for the playoffs, especially when your payroll is > 100mil (only way to explain Joe Girardi winning it).

Edgy DC Aug 10 2011 01:02 PM Re: Mr. Collins

Two of the team's best pl...? Oh, right. K-Rod.

Met Hunter Aug 10 2011 01:49 PM Re: Mr. Collins

Don't overlook Kirk Gibson for this award.

attgig Aug 10 2011 01:57 PM Re: Mr. Collins

Met Hunter wrote: Don't overlook Kirk Gibson for this award. if the pirates fade, i think he would become the favorite. if the pirates hang on and compete with the cards and brewers somehow, hurdle has it imho.

Vic Sage Aug 10 2011 02:11 PM Re: Mr. Collins

There have only been 2 years in the 28-year history of the award where it went to a guy whose team didn't either (1) win 90+ games, or (2) make it to the playoffs. (Bowa with 2001 Phillies, and Girardi with 2006 Marlins). Assuming the Mets maintain their .500 record and 3rd place finish, i don't see Collins winning anything, in a season where Roenicke, a 1st time manager, is steering the Brewers to their first division title in 30 years. Kirk Gibson has a better shot, too, especially if the DBacks slip past SF in the West. Even among .500 non-playoff teams, Hurdle has the edge, due to the perception and payrolls of the Pirates as compared with the Mets. If this is a discussion of SHOULD rather than LIKELIHOOD, then i have no opinion, since i've never understood the criteria for making that determination, beyond the entirely subjective question of a team's talent vs its production.

Ashie62 Aug 10 2011 02:38 PM Re: Mr. Collins

Met Hunter wrote: Don't overlook Kirk Gibson for this award. Terry will be in the conversation but AZ is challenging for the division.

TransMonk Aug 10 2011 02:56 PM Re: Mr. Collins

It seems to me that this award is usually earned in September...but for now, I would give it to Kirk. I do think Collins did more with less than Roenicke for whatever that's worth. Ron was handed a team with an powerful offensive and a playoff caliber rotation. I think it's a knock against him that they haven't run away with the weakest division in baseball.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 10 2011 03:00 PM Re: Mr. Collins

I'm thinking it goes, East Coast Lamestream Media Bias for Terry runs high, while Gibson overlooked as Dbaggs fade, and Roenicke is punished for a first-round playoff exit. Put it in the books!

Edgy DC Aug 10 2011 03:04 PM Re: Mr. Collins

By my calcs, the combined winning percentage of the teams the Mets have yet to play is .551. It'll be a tough haul for Terry to keep climbing going down the stretch.

G-Fafif Aug 10 2011 04:13 PM Re: Mr. Collins

Gil Hodges won the Sporting News Mgr. award in 1969. Gene Mauch beat out Yogi Berra in 1973, which irked me then and irks me now. Irked, I tell you.

Ashie62 Aug 10 2011 06:50 PM Re: Mr. Collins

Charlie Manuel??

Gwreck Aug 10 2011 07:40 PM Re: Mr. Collins

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Roenicke is punished for a first-round playoff exit. Ballots due by the last day of the season - playoffs don't get considered.

metirish Aug 11 2011 03:33 PM Re: Mr. Collins

Before today'sgame Another speech not coming from Collins By Adam Rubin The Mets are a game under .500. They are 10½ games behind the Braves in the wild-card race. And they have only 45 games remaining. But there is not going to be another speech from Terry Collins about focusing and resolve and the like. “I can’t keep giving speeches,” Collins said before the Mets prepared to head to the airport for a trip to Arizona and San Diego. “I can’t keep giving these guys pep talks. This is the big leagues. These are men. They have to realize what they’re facing. They have to realize what it takes to play here 162 times. They know exactly what they’re looking at. They know it’s the steepest climb of their life. ... “As I’ve said before -- and I don’t necessarily mean young players -- there’s a lot of guys playing for jobs here, on this team. I want 25 guys next year that are willing to give me all they have 162 nights.”

Ashie62 Aug 11 2011 04:10 PM Re: Mr. Collins

Was Terry wearing #1 on his jersey when he said this?

bmfc1 Aug 12 2011 07:15 AM Re: Mr. Collins

Yes, he deserves consideration. The media from the "small markets" will say "the Mets should be better than .500 with their resources and stars" and will vote for LaRussa or Gibson or really anybody not from NY. Terry has done a fantastic job (and he was my last choice given his specious background) of keeping the team focused and playing hard despite the team's financial situation, the owner's big mouth, the F. Rodriguez situation and all of the injuries. Much of the media expected a repeat of his prior jobs where the team turned on him: that hasn't happened. Much of the media expected him to go nuts after the first misplay: that hasn't happened. Maybe they will only finish at .500 so some will say "so what?" If they do, they will miss a skillful managerial job by Terry Collins who deserves consideration for Manager of the Year.