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City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Centerfield Aug 16 2011 10:06 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 16 2011 10:32 AM

Edgy DC wrote: *Restore the tradition of city agency hats on September 11. Announce defiantly that you intend to do it in perpetuity, and whatever fine MLB gives the team, they will gladly pay it plus an equal amount to a September 11-related orphan scholarship fund. It's personal, MLB. This, a hundred times. Give me a manager that will send the team out there in these hats no matter what the penalty. I want Selig to threaten a forfeit if the players don't don the MLB sanctioned hats, and I want our Manager to respond with "Then we forfeit. We're wearing our hats." An easy way to do this would be to bring back Bobby as the manager. There is no way Bobby lets them take the field in anything but the city agency hats. This doesn't even belong in a uniform thread, where it's mainly about taste. This belongs in a "The Way Things Must ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY Be" thread. Those city agency hats were a symbol of how active the Mets were post-9/11. Bobby Valentine out there in the parking lots, Joe McEwing driving that forklift. When Shea Stadium's parking lot became a staging ground for the relief efforts. I've never been prouder to be a Mets fan. It's idiotic not to wear them. In fact, we should start a movement right now to make sure the Mets wear them on the tenth anniversary. We need blogger help. Bombard everyone with emails. We have less than a month. We have to make this happen.

Edgy DC Aug 16 2011 10:17 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Bloggers? What say you?

seawolf17 Aug 16 2011 10:22 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ab-so-goddamn-lutely.

Centerfield Aug 16 2011 10:32 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I emailed Matt Cerrone at MetsBlog. mattcerrone@metsblog.com Anyone with email addresses for Rubin, tracksuit, etc. should post them here so we can flood their inboxes. Seawolf, do you want to put something on your patch?

TransMonk Aug 16 2011 10:55 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Yes, yes, yes!

Edgy DC Aug 16 2011 11:04 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Centerfield wrote: I emailed Matt Cerrone at MetsBlog. mattcerrone@metsblog.com Anyone with email addresses for Rubin, tracksuit, etc. should post them here so we can flood their inboxes. Go for their Twitter feeds.

Ceetar Aug 16 2011 11:10 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: I emailed Matt Cerrone at MetsBlog. mattcerrone@metsblog.com Anyone with email addresses for Rubin, tracksuit, etc. should post them here so we can flood their inboxes. Go for their Twitter feeds. most of their email addresses are fairly easy to find. I don't like the City Agency hats though. I'm watching the Mets, not the FDNY.

Edgy DC Aug 16 2011 11:14 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Neither are you watching the New Yorks. But I certainly applaud my team for sublimating their effort in something greater than themselves, and am disappointed when they fail to.

Centerfield Aug 16 2011 11:18 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Do I have to be on twitter for me to tweet them?

Ceetar Aug 16 2011 11:19 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: Neither are you watching the New Yorks. But I certainly applaud my team for sublimating their effort in something greater than themselves, and am disappointed when they fail to. Isn't altering hats/uniforms, even for limited occasions, affecting the brand? why do they need to go beyond recognizing the servicemen they've invited to the game and all the other _off the field_ things they do?

Ceetar Aug 16 2011 11:23 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Centerfield wrote: Do I have to be on twitter for me to tweet them? yeah. Adam.Rubin@espn.com is Rubin's. Most of them are along those lines. (amartino@nydailynews.com i'd imagine, or something like that.) Steve Popper and Bobby Ojeda actually still use AOL mail. I laughed.

Centerfield Aug 16 2011 11:32 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Adam, I have been following you since your days at the Daily News. Thanks for your great coverage of the Mets. I am writing to see if you will help my friends and me in our efforts to get the Mets to wear the city agency hats on the tenth anniversary of 9/11 as they did in that first game after the tragedy and for many years thereafter. I thought it was a touching tribute and a great symbol of what we suffered together as a city. I was amazed at the efforts the Mets made during the aftermath of the tragedy. From Bobby Valentine working to all hours of the night, to Joe McEwing driving that forklift, to Shea Stadium's parking lot being a staging grounds for the recovery effort, I have never been more proud to be a Mets fan. There will be many tributes on the tenth anniversary of this tragedy, but I thought the wearing of the hats, spurred by John Franco's personal connection, was spontaneous and heartfelt. I'd love to see this return this year. I realize that MLB has sanctioned special hats, but 9/11 holds special meaning to the Mets, and I'd love to see them defy any regulation and return to their tradition. Thanks Adam. Feel free to cut/paste/edit if so inclined.

Edgy DC Aug 16 2011 11:33 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar wrote: Neither are you watching the New Yorks. But I certainly applaud my team for sublimating their effort in something greater than themselves, and am disappointed when they fail to. Isn't altering hats/uniforms, even for limited occasions, affecting the brand? Yes, in a most powerful way. Ceetar wrote: why do they need to go beyond recognizing the servicemen they've invited to the game and all the other _off the field_ things they do? They don't need to. Some of us found this particar gesture to be honest, moving, powerful, spontaneous, defiant, unifying, and spirited. We continued to find it so in the following years. And when it was discontinued, we found it to be false, draining, weak, coersed, capitualting, divisive, and deflating.

Centerfield Aug 16 2011 12:08 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Rubin responds: Thanks for your note. I'll forward your email to David Newman, the Mets VP for marketing, who is involved in those types of decisions. Adam Now looking for Newman's email.

Ceetar Aug 16 2011 12:14 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Rubin responds: Thanks for your note. I'll forward your email to David Newman, the Mets VP for marketing, who is involved in those types of decisions. Adam Now looking for Newman's email. Of course, you could've emailed Newman directly (I'd be shocked if it wasn't dnewman@nymets.com) , but probably would've gotten ignored.

Centerfield Aug 16 2011 12:18 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

His email: dnewman@nymets.com

HahnSolo Aug 16 2011 12:50 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Newman once responded to me within an hour by phone after I emailed the team through Mets.com about how shitty I thought their Shea Stadium Countdown was. I wouldn't be shocked if you got a response.

Centerfield Aug 16 2011 01:05 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I didn't get a chance to email him. He called me after getting Rubin's email. Nice guy, said he can't disclose any details, but they are working on something special blah blah blah. I think he needs to hear from you guys. How about Adam Rubin? Very cool of him to respond.

Edgy DC Aug 16 2011 01:12 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Wow, great. Thing is that we had something special. Something really special, spontaneous, and unique to the team.

themetfairy Aug 16 2011 02:15 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Centerfield wrote: I didn't get a chance to email him. He called me after getting Rubin's email. CF once again establishes why he's king!

seawolf17 Aug 16 2011 02:22 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Please. I'm sure any time a lawyer contacts the Mets these days, an EMERGENCY red light and alarm start going off.

metirish Aug 16 2011 02:22 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Outstanding all around , kudos to CF. Agree totally in the city agency hats.

metirish Aug 16 2011 02:30 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I sent a tweet to Dickey and Turner.

Ashie62 Aug 16 2011 02:34 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

The Mets did not corner the market on post attack support..Many, many help..I don't see why you to change a hat to honor them. It's like name dropping.

Ashie62 Aug 16 2011 02:36 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: Wow, great. Thing is that we had something special. Something really special, spontaneous, and unique to the team. We???

Edgy DC Aug 16 2011 02:37 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Yeah.

Centerfield Aug 16 2011 04:25 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

It's official. This board can and will argue any topic. You guys are certainly entitled to your opinions, but it boggles my mind there is any disagreement on this. The hats were not name-dropping. They weren't part of some organized, pre-planned effort. It was not done for the brand, or to suggest they had cornered the market on helping victims. They wore the hats to honor those that had fallen, and to honor those who were still doing the job, notwithstanding that the dangerous nature of their work had just been horrifically demonstrated to them. They wore them because they looked at the firemen and cops wearing Mets hats and said, "You know what, we're fans of your's. We're going to wear your hats." I liked the fact that they wore them in the years afterwards because it reminded me how great that 2001 team was. Not in the standings, but in what they did for the community. I liked it because they swore never to forget, and every time they wore those hats it demonstrated that they hadn't. I like seeing those hats because they wore them in one of the biggest games in Mets history. Even Chipper Jones said afterwards he was glad the Mets won. When they dropped that tradition it was incredibly disappointing. Something real and heartfelt was replaced by something fabricated. For the ten year, I want the Mets to buck convention and go back to a tradition that was dropped way too early.

Ceetar Aug 16 2011 04:56 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Sure, and breast cancer is a horrible disease, and pink bats are a nice idea. The recent equalization of marriage was a huge deal. Should the Mets wear hats celebrating that on the anniversary every year? Noble cause or not, the team is being used to promote a cause. Maybe in a couple of years MLB attendance is down and the commissioner figures what's really the difference between FDNY caps and Pepsi caps? It's one thing to have a one-off remembrance as baseball returns and the city/country grieves, but life goes on. Baseball has weathered World Wars and Depression and all sorts of catastrophes. The idea of wearing the caps is to remind everyone, every second, about the event. That's not what baseball is about. Baseball is the game, it's the escape, it's the balm for the wound. You can remember, and celebrate those people. Have them on the broadcast, mention their names, put it up on the scoreboard, have them throw out the first pitch. Do the same gimmicks you do for everything else, but leave the game itself alone.

metirish Aug 16 2011 05:10 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar is a terrorist , he's gotta be, probably hates America too.

Edgy DC Aug 16 2011 06:06 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar, I'm going to honorably ask you to go back and read the post before yours a little more closely, because I think you missed a lot.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 16 2011 06:42 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

You argue FOR orange shirts and near-perpetual Mercury-Metsing, and yet THIS bothers you as an unwelcome intrusion of... what, exactly? Real life? History that cataclysmically changed the team's home city and actually involved Met participation?

Fman99 Aug 16 2011 07:40 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Can we just talk about cocks please? You fucking guys.

Ceetar Aug 16 2011 08:49 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: You argue FOR orange shirts and near-perpetual Mercury-Metsing, and yet THIS bothers you as an unwelcome intrusion of... what, exactly? Real life? History that cataclysmically changed the team's home city and actually involved Met participation? Keep politics and gods out of my baseball game. The wearing of the hats was like that then, now it seems like (to me, this is merely my opinion and my perception of it) a political thing. It feels like that city/country wide, not just in New York. People complain things like orange uniforms make them look like a softball team, but the service hats make them look like a beer league or a little league. I was sorta tongue in cheek about the orange, but really as long as it says Mets on it (or implies it on the road via New York) I really don't care what they wear. Whatever they well promotes the brand in it's own way. It is the brand. wearing NYPD caps does not do that, and it doesn't lessen what the Mets did, or what the Mets do, in regards to respecting and honoring those people. One player visiting a fire house has more impact than 30ish guys wearing the FDNY hats.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Aug 16 2011 09:31 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

G-Fafif Aug 17 2011 08:04 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

If the Mets are going to wear a cap that isn't one of their three usual caps on September 11, they established the standard in the days after 9/11/01, for all the reasons CF stated. If I'd do anything to enhance the symbolism, I'd add a small orange Mets NY to one side or the back to illustrate solidarity -- it would explicitly state the Mets stand with the FDNY, the NYPD, the OEM, the PAPD and the other agencies the way their personnel stood with their fellow citizens in their city's darkest hour: we were all in this together and we're still all in this together. I recall Joe Torre being asked during the 2001 postseason why they weren't doing what the Mets had done during games and the MFY excuse was the MFY insignia meant so much to so many. Ack. The Mets' NY means plenty to me, but it meant plenty more that they saw themselves as a part of something bigger when circumstances away from the ballpark demanded it. The Stars & Stripes caps are a fine gesture from MLB on Memorial Day and the Fourth of July, if not always executed beautifully. They've done four iterations thus far and, in Met terms, I've found three of them incredibly unattractive. I bought the one I didn't think was too bad -- the 2010 white dome/blue bill model, to support Welcome Home Veterans. I like that MLB draws attention to this cause, though I wish they'd figure out a way to do it that didn't do a number on team identities (the Mets in red caps was an abomination). I take making each player look like he plays for the same team as a subtle message that we can't be trusted to love our country unless we all conform to one view. I see Ceetar's point in the abstract -- slopes can be slippery and, to put it mildly, I've never felt comfortable being told to stand and remove whatever cap I'm wearing for "God Bless America" (I'm all for love of country; I can do without the religious pep rally aspect) -- but in New York, a decade out, for one home game in 81 I don't think it's an abstract situation.

Ceetar Aug 17 2011 08:22 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

G-Fafif wrote: I see Ceetar's point in the abstract -- slopes can be slippery and, to put it mildly, I've never felt comfortable being told to stand and remove whatever cap I'm wearing for "God Bless America" (I'm all for love of country; I can do without the religious pep rally aspect) -- but in New York, a decade out, for one home game in 81 I don't think it's an abstract situation. Given the choice I'd have them wear blue Mets caps, but I'm okay with it on the 10th anniversary, on this one very very specific occasion, and in a game MLB has already decided is going to be a spectacle/rememberance. I'm sure they'll talk more about the 2001 team than the 2011 team.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Aug 17 2011 10:15 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I see your point in principle... as regards the overtly political or religious in any inappropriate public arena. But this sort of tribute is a celebration of people doing their public service jobs in a particular moment of civic crisis; if it stands for anything greater than that, it's people doing their difficult public service jobs in ANY moment of crisis (and maybe, as G put it, that baseball and the Mets are-- both ineffably and, when the situation demands, tangibly-- part of something "bigger"). Also... unlike a flag ceremony, or an original song for the occasion, or Mr. Met posing on some true-cross portion of the WTC i-beams, the cap thing is a recreation of something that ACTUALLY HAPPENED. It is perhaps the least contrived, least politically-charged*, least religiously-inflammatory way to celebrate a historic occurrence that directly impacted and involved not only every member of the fanbase, but the team, its members, and the stadium itself; the alternative is either ignoring it (or something so invisible as to be tantamount to ignoring it) or something stupidly compulsory, with plenty of flag-waving treacle. If this is really all about principle, you should kick and scream about the war song they play before games before you raise any fuss over this proposal**. *Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell's fiancee, and many others may differ as regards this, granted. **Not an actual suggestion to picket or protest the national anthem.

Vic Sage Aug 17 2011 10:33 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Keep politics and gods out of my baseball game. Really? Well, I'm with you on this, so lets get started. In addition to baseball-only caps, we have to get rid of the pre-game "star spangled banner" and color guard, the politician throwing out a 1st pitch, the 7th inning "god bless america", as well as the flags flown around the stadium. While we're at it, lets get that "42" out of the lobby and off the walls of every park, since its a celebration of a political act (integration). and no visit to the white house for the champions, either! and make sure there are no special celebrations in any park that honors veterans, or for any charitable (i.e., political) purpose. And those cultural celebration games... nope. multi-culturalism is an inherently political issue. And all teams that use a red, white & blue color scheme in their uniforms or stadia must be altered. And make sure teams don't accept or pay anybody with money that says "in god we trust". Let me know when we can start the revolution! Secular baseball in a bubble, untouched by the world! I'm so there... oh, wait. you mean just the cap thing? that's like being one of those pro-death penalty right-to-lifers. I say in for a penny, in for a pound, idealogically speaking.

Ceetar Aug 17 2011 11:22 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Vic Sage wrote: Keep politics and gods out of my baseball game. Really? Well, I'm with you on this, so lets get started. In addition to baseball-only caps, we have to get rid of the pre-game "star spangled banner" and color guard, the politician throwing out a 1st pitch, the 7th inning "god bless america", as well as the flags flown around the stadium. While we're at it, lets get that "42" out of the lobby and off the walls of every park, since its a celebration of a political act (integration). and no visit to the white house for the champions, either! and make sure there are no special celebrations in any park that honors veterans, or for any charitable (i.e., political) purpose. And those cultural celebration games... nope. multi-culturalism is an inherently political issue. And all teams that use a red, white & blue color scheme in their uniforms or stadia must be altered. And make sure teams don't accept or pay anybody with money that says "in god we trust". Let me know when we can start the revolution! Secular baseball in a bubble, untouched by the world! I'm so there... oh, wait. you mean just the cap thing? that's like being one of those pro-death penalty right-to-lifers. I say in for a penny, in for a pound, idealogically speaking. not at all. Every single thing you mentioned happens between innings or before or after the game. I've accepted the gimmicky/entertainment nature of baseball and that there are going to be advertisements, sponsors, random people on the broadcast and throwing out first pitches and dunk tanks and pizza passes, 12 year old girls dancing on dugouts and mascot races. That baseball, and the individual franchises are going to use their following and viewership to promote whatever causes throw money their way or they feel is worthy. I even enjoy much of it and wait on line at Shake Shack and text my answers in for the in-game Mets trivia. But what I love is that if i want, i can usually sit there in my seat and tune the world out and watch my 27 outs and just my 27 outs and not worry about anything else.

Edgy DC Aug 17 2011 11:37 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar wrote: not at all. Every single thing you mentioned happens between innings or before or after the game. I don't know how you can keep selectively reading and ignore facts to hang on to a position I don't think you're really committed to, but this is absolutely and unambiguously false.

Ceetar Aug 17 2011 11:45 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: not at all. Every single thing you mentioned happens between innings or before or after the game. I don't know how you can keep selectively reading and ignore facts to hang on to a position I don't think you're really committed to, but this is absolutely and unambiguously false. when was the last time they honored a serviceperson during the game inbetween batters? seriously, what happens on the field during the game? what am I missing?

Edgy DC Aug 17 2011 12:06 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

First of all between innings is such an absurdly arbitrary line. What takes place between innings is still baseball, it's still part of the game, is still an expression of the team, whether you like it or not. But seriously? OK. Flags are flown, during the game, including during innings. Flags have been worn on uniforms, during the game, including during innings. Jackie Robinson's number is displayed, during the game, including during innings. Jackie Robinson's number is displayed in some parks on the wall and in play, during the game, including during innings. Jackie Robinson's number is forsworn 161 games a year by all non-Riveran players, during the game, including during innings. Jackie Robinson's number is worn one game a year by virtually all players, during the game, including during innings. Red, white, and blue color schema, often in a deliberate appeal to Americanism, are worn by teams, during the game, including during innings. Many things he didn't mention go on constantly: players wear their flags or their religious symbols on jewelry and tattoos. They come to bat with "Proud to be a American with Bad Taste" (or hymns, in the case of Julio Franco and the like) blasting from the speakers. They cross themselves when coming to the plate. They point to the sky in the midst of success in thanks for their God-given gifts. But you've drawn the line on this issue, where the expression came not from authoritarian source ordering them how to express themselves, but from the heart of the players, in defiance of the authorities, and in fealty with their city. Everyday, they wear the insignia of the city they represent on their hats --- an expressly political statement, if a flaccid one --- and one day they were about to take the field, and Rey Ordonez decides he really wanted to represent the city, knowing that the hearts of all the city are with the ones who gave their lives for it. It was perfect. And every player instantly knew it, and fell in line. Me, I wait years for expressions of moving substance to arise from the too often morally empty vessel of professonal sports.

Ceetar Aug 17 2011 12:24 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: Me, I wait years for expressions of moving substance to arise from the too often morally empty vessel of professonal sports. Again, i'm not talking about the 9..21? game. I'm talking about now, about every year. None of the players are even the same. teams are transient. These aren't the same guys. Let's throw all the other stuff out for now. I have problems with some of it, I disagree with some of it, and I don't mind or even like some of it. But that's not what this is about. And it's merely my opinion. I gave Rubin's email address and answered the question about contacting guys. I'm not trying to prevent it or think you're wrong for wanting this. I just don't. I don't think it's a moving statement, like it was then. It's a calculated forced effort. That's not Rey Ordonez trotting out to SS, it's Jose Reyes. If anything it makes it worse to me. It takes something that was moving and special in a horrible time and generalizes it. I'd prefer they wear regular caps and honor those people in other ways..which they're doing.

Edgy DC Aug 17 2011 05:55 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I know it's not 2011 anymore. I know it's Jose Reyes. I think we all know that. But an expression of fealty is made more powerful in its continued observance. What was forced was not the continuance, but the discontinuance. The players didn't take a vote to stop wearing the hats. They stopped because they were told to make their expression dovetail with the league's coordinated expression. But you keep moving the goalposts here. Your demand for purifying the game is shown to be demonstrably unmanageable, and you don't care, because none of that stuff happens on the field during the game. I make clear that plenty of it does, and it's like, well, you're not really talking about that anyway.

Lefty Specialist Aug 17 2011 07:49 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

My guess is that MLB has specially-tailored hats for the occasion. Something like a yellow ribbon and 9-11-01 on it. That's why they won't wear city agency hats. Just my guess, YMMV.

Vic Sage Aug 17 2011 09:40 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Many things he didn't mention go on constantly: players wear their flags or their religious symbols on jewelry and tattoos. They come to bat with "Proud to be a American with Bad Taste" (or hymns, in the case of Julio Franco and the like) blasting from the speakers. They cross themselves when coming to the plate. They point to the sky in the midst of success in thanks for their God-given gifts. thanks, edgy. yeah, lets get that stuff out of here. No hymns, dammit! this is the church of baseball! and they should only be able to wear as much overtly religious or political jewelry as they can reasonably swallow. and the only lord they can look up to thank are the lords of baseball in their luxury suites. please, Ceetar, we of the AAB (Apolitical Atheists for Baseball) need you on this.

Ceetar Aug 17 2011 09:49 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Vic Sage wrote: Many things he didn't mention go on constantly: players wear their flags or their religious symbols on jewelry and tattoos. They come to bat with "Proud to be a American with Bad Taste" (or hymns, in the case of Julio Franco and the like) blasting from the speakers. They cross themselves when coming to the plate. They point to the sky in the midst of success in thanks for their God-given gifts. thanks, edgy. yeah, lets get that stuff out of here. No hymns, dammit! this is the church of baseball! and they should only be able to wear as much overtly religious or political jewelry as they can reasonably swallow. and the only lord they can look up to thank are the lords of baseball in their luxury suites. please, Ceetar, we of the AAB (Apolitical Atheists for Baseball) need you on this. There's certainly a difference between a personal choice to wear a cross or play a song. But just that you've connected flags to religious symbols is part of my problem. You don't have to be religious or pray during the 7th inning to be patriotic. And just because i don't like the hats doesn't mean I'm apolitical or atheist, even if I trend in that direction. They won't wear the hats. They're going to abide by the MLB rules and wear the stupid Stars and Stripes hats. The players aren't looking to make a statement by bucking that trend in this way. I'm sure they could compromise. Wear them through the Anthem and then switch to the 'correct' hat, or hold them during the 7th inning stretch and then toss them to fans. They're not going to, but if they did, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd just prefer they were wearing plain Mets hats and not mixing issues.

Edgy DC Aug 18 2011 07:21 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar wrote: But just that you've connected flags to religious symbols is part of my problem. It's amazing how you keep shifting on this. You explicitly made the connection. We're just responding. Keep politics and gods out of my baseball game.

Ceetar Aug 18 2011 07:23 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: But just that you've connected flags to religious symbols is part of my problem. It's amazing how you keep shifting on this. You explicitly made the connection. We're just responding. Keep politics and gods out of my baseball game. neither of those things relates to patriotism.

Edgy DC Aug 18 2011 07:25 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar Aug 18 2011 07:49 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

What do you want from me? Why is it just a problem that I don't like the hats and wish they wouldn't wear them (they're not anyway) for my own reasons?

Edgy DC Aug 18 2011 08:00 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

It's too late. I'm dead.

Ceetar Aug 18 2011 08:15 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: It's too late. I'm dead. so are the 2011 Mets, but we're talking about them still.

A Boy Named Seo Aug 24 2011 08:51 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Nats ask MLB to wear Navy Seals caps. Nats get shut down. linky.

G-Fafif Aug 24 2011 09:43 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Nats ask MLB to wear Navy Seals caps. Nats get shut down. linky. Well, yeah. The night the Nats were SEALs caps might be the night some kid isn't inspired to ask his parents to buy him that Nats cap he hadn't realized he so badly wanted until he saw it on Alex Cora's head. Good job, MLB.

TransMonk Aug 31 2011 01:50 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Metsblog says: “John Franco will throw out the ceremonial first pitch to Mike Piazza during the September 11 remembrance ceremony before the Mets host the Cubs at Citi Field,” the team just announced. The team says they will mark the 10th anniversary of September 11 by honoring the memory of those lost and injured, and celebrating the heroes, survivors and rescue and recovery workers before that day’s game. In addition, the Mets will again pay tribute to New York City’s uniformed service men and women by wearing caps representing their organizations. According to the team, they will be releasing more details of their September 11 remembrance ceremony in the coming days.

seawolf17 Aug 31 2011 04:15 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I kinda want to go, but I'm singing at our regular Sunday service that morning as well as at the community interfaith 9/11 service that night.

Edgy DC Aug 31 2011 08:14 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Metsblog says: “John Franco will throw out the ceremonial first pitch to Mike Piazza during the September 11 remembrance ceremony before the Mets host the Cubs at Citi Field,” the team just announced. The team says they will mark the 10th anniversary of September 11 by honoring the memory of those lost and injured, and celebrating the heroes, survivors and rescue and recovery workers before that day’s game. In addition, the Mets will again pay tribute to New York City’s uniformed service men and women by wearing caps representing their organizations. According to the team, they will be releasing more details of their September 11 remembrance ceremony in the coming days.

TransMonk Sep 09 2011 03:47 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Not sure where to put this. http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/08/sports ... index.html

Ashie62 Sep 09 2011 04:19 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

TransMonk wrote: Not sure where to put this. http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/08/sports ... index.html Steve Politi gets picked up by CNN, he will be even more unbearable.

Edgy DC Sep 09 2011 08:23 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Is he any relation to Scritti?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 11 2011 06:49 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Wow. That's the absolute opposite of a mensch move, Bud-bagman. NEW YORK -- Major League Baseball has denied the New York Mets' request to wear baseball caps honoring New York City emergency service departments for their game against the Chicago Cubs on the 10th anniversary of the 2001 terrorist attacks. Joe Torre, MLB's executive vice president for baseball operations, told The Associated Press the decision was made to keep policy consistent throughout baseball and that "certainly, it's not a lack of respect."

Centerfield Sep 11 2011 07:19 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Hey dumbasses, Wear them anyway. Fuck MLB. And especially fuck Torre. Give me a Met that has the balls enough to wear it out there anyway.

themetfairy Sep 11 2011 07:32 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Worry about uniformity when other cities have been attacked the way New York was. And DC doesn't count - the Expos weren't there at the time!

Edgy DC Sep 11 2011 07:46 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Centerfield wrote: Hey dumbasses, Wear them anyway. Fuck MLB. And especially fuck Torre. Give me a Met that has the balls enough to wear it out there anyway.

86-Dreamer Sep 12 2011 06:29 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

After the conclusion of the pregame ceremony, Howie ripped off a two minute lashing of Selig and MLB for forbidding the agency hats, and for "playing the game at night instead of on a beautiful Sunday afternoon." Thank you Howie, and eff u Bud! I was surprised Terry didn't send 'em out there anyway with the hats - missed an oppurtunity to really fire up an further unify the team.

metirish Sep 12 2011 06:41 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I'm not surprised Collins didn't send them out with the hats, I'm sure Wilpon had him in his office, and we know from the past that Wilpon is a big buddy of Selig's and is known to toe the party line. Should we have seen this coming as the Nats were told not to wear them recently too?

HahnSolo Sep 12 2011 07:02 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I just wonder how big of a fine they'd be facing that no one wanted to step up and say, fine be damned, I'm doing the right thing. I believe it is in the MLB rules that you can donate any fines to charity...someone might be able to correct me on that. So where the hats, accept the fine, donate it to Tuesday's Children. And the Mets would have looked great, both on the field and in perception. Instead they look feeble, which for this organization is all too common.

86-Dreamer Sep 12 2011 07:13 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Exactly. But Fred is $25 million in the hole to Bud and apparently forbidden to expose him for the fool that he is. Pathetic.

metirish Sep 12 2011 07:18 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

86-Dreamer wrote: Exactly. But Fred is $25 million in the hole to Bud and apparently forbidden to expose him for the fool that he is. Pathetic. Had forgotten about that loan, taking all of this into account Wilpon was never going to go against it.Not defending anyone here but it's MLB in my opinion that look pathetic here.

G-Fafif Sep 12 2011 07:18 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I'm surprised MLB didn't make them wear MFY caps.

Ceetar Sep 12 2011 07:19 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

HahnSolo wrote: And the Mets would have looked great, both on the field and in perception. Instead they look feeble, which for this organization is all too common. Perception, because the Mets did a lot of wonderful things yesterday, and they wore the caps in the pregame ceremonies and then chose to abide by the boss's policy. Choosing to focus on the one thing that 'went wrong' is unfair to them, and all that other stuff. I can't help but wonder what would've happened if the Mets (or New Era) had decided in March they wanted different caps than the ones planned, back when they originally got the note that they wouldn't be allowed to wear something different and petitioned for it.

Edgy DC Sep 12 2011 07:26 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar wrote: Perception, because the Mets did a lot of wonderful things yesterday, and they wore the caps in the pregame ceremonies and then chose to abide by the boss's policy. Choosing to focus on the one thing that 'went wrong' is unfair to them, and all that other stuff. Says the guy who didn't want them to wear the caps anyhow.

Edgy DC Sep 12 2011 07:31 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

The league originally told the 2001 Mets that they could not wear the hats during the games, either, but as former Met Todd Zeile remembered for reporters on Sunday, "it was really a collective feeling from everybody in the clubhouse that ... we're going to wear these hats until we can't wear them anymore, until they're ripped off our heads.'" This isn't about Fred. The owners could have abided by the league wishes, given the players an order to comply and the players could have quite easily defied it. The hats were on hand, they wore them before the game, and they wore them in the dugout.

Ceetar Sep 12 2011 07:37 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: Perception, because the Mets did a lot of wonderful things yesterday, and they wore the caps in the pregame ceremonies and then chose to abide by the boss's policy. Choosing to focus on the one thing that 'went wrong' is unfair to them, and all that other stuff. Says the guy who didn't want them to wear the caps anyhow. I also didn't want them to wear the hats they did, (I think it's the same part of the 'slippery slope' argument they used to deny the Mets the FDNY hats.) or move the game to 8:00 so that ESPN could run a 9/11 story with a baseball backdrop.

Centerfield Sep 12 2011 07:38 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Tell the Mets how you feel: To: David Newman, Senior Vice President, Marketing & Communications, New York Mets (dnewman@nymets.com) cc: Adam Rubin (Adam.Rubin@espn.com) David, Thank you for your efforts in attempting to get permission to wear the first responder hats for yesterday's game. The pre-game tribute was also extremely well-done. I will say, though, that I am incredibly disappointed that the hats were not worn during the game. I realize that MLB issued an order, but I thought it was a great chance for the Mets to step up and defy MLB like they did ten years ago. I am reading Todd Zeile's quote today in Adam's article (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_ ... -9-11-game) and it really sums up what this gesture meant to the players and also to the fans. I thought that the Mets had a great opportunity to show what they were made of, and for the organization to handcuff the players like that is just incredibly disappointing. Adam, thank you for giving this issue the attention it deserves. I couldn't help but notice Joe Torre's quote: "I certainly understood what they wanted to do in regards to wearing the hats. I used my history with the fact that we were in the World Series 10 years ago." Joe Torre continues not to get it. The tribute hats have nothing to do with having been in the World Series. It has to do with having been in New York.

Ceetar Sep 12 2011 07:42 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Maybe the Mets, instead of fighting with their commissioner and creditor, should work with them to get permission to wear the hats next year, and/or into perpetuity. Or does no one care because it 's not an nice round anniversary?

seawolf17 Sep 12 2011 07:44 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Sent. Double bullshit: Eff you Torre, and eff you Mets for not saying eff you MLB.

seawolf17 Sep 12 2011 07:45 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

You know what else bugged the crap out of me last night? All the damn Derek Jeter stuff. Third eff you to Buster Olney for that story.

Ceetar Sep 12 2011 07:50 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

seawolf17 wrote: You know what else bugged the crap out of me last night? All the damn Derek Jeter stuff. Third eff you to Buster Olney for that story. Bobby Valentine had some nice stories. Not baseball stories, but nice given the theme. But that 8 year old girl who loves Derek Jeter story and got to meet him? Barf. Oh, also how they frequently played their inbetween inning montages over the start of the next inning instead of daring to lose a commercial spot.

Centerfield Sep 12 2011 07:55 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Maybe the Mets, instead of fighting with their commissioner and creditor, should work with them to get permission to wear the hats next year, and/or into perpetuity. Or does no one care because it 's not an nice round anniversary? Good point Ceetar. I sent a follow-up email: One more thing, I hope that everyone will learn from this and the Mets and MLB will work together to see to it that these hats can be worn next year and every year thereafter.

G-Fafif Sep 12 2011 09:07 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Kurkjian with a good Zeilecentric column here. Too bad Rey-Rey's been disappeared from the narrative, though.

Centerfield Sep 12 2011 09:43 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

It's amazing that there can something that special that happens to an organization, then the organization finds a way to fuck it up. These guys are morons.

Ashie62 Sep 12 2011 12:38 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

9/11 was special?

Centerfield Sep 12 2011 02:46 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I think you realize I meant that the sentiment behind the gesture was special.

themetfairy Sep 12 2011 06:30 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Tell the Mets how you feel: To: David Newman, Senior Vice President, Marketing & Communications, New York Mets (dnewman@nymets.com) cc: Adam Rubin (Adam.Rubin@espn.com) David, Thank you for your efforts in attempting to get permission to wear the first responder hats for yesterday's game. The pre-game tribute was also extremely well-done. I will say, though, that I am incredibly disappointed that the hats were not worn during the game. I realize that MLB issued an order, but I thought it was a great chance for the Mets to step up and defy MLB like they did ten years ago. I am reading Todd Zeile's quote today in Adam's article (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_ ... -9-11-game) and it really sums up what this gesture meant to the players and also to the fans. I thought that the Mets had a great opportunity to show what they were made of, and for the organization to handcuff the players like that is just incredibly disappointing. Adam, thank you for giving this issue the attention it deserves. I couldn't help but notice Joe Torre's quote: "I certainly understood what they wanted to do in regards to wearing the hats. I used my history with the fact that we were in the World Series 10 years ago." Joe Torre continues not to get it. The tribute hats have nothing to do with having been in the World Series. It has to do with having been in New York. I didn't quote your wonderfully stated letter. But I wrote one of my own - Dear Mr. Newman, I am beyond disappointed that the Mets did not wear NYC agency caps on 9/11 this year - I am aghast! The fact that MLB told the Mets that they could not wear them was reprehensible. The fact that the organization didn't stand up to the league was cowardly. It was the wrong thing, and I am ashamed of my team's acquiescence to this travesty. Sincerely, TMF

themetfairy Sep 12 2011 07:05 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

And I received a response - Thank you for taking the time to write with your frank comments regarding the Mets. Should you wish to discuss your email further, please forward your telephone number and I will call you... Or feel to call me in the office at 718 565 4305. Thank you again for your ongoing support of and interest in the Mets. David

Benjamin Grimm Sep 12 2011 08:27 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Points for responsiveness.

Ceetar Sep 12 2011 08:32 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Points for responsiveness. it was either watch the game, or read his email.

Ashie62 Sep 12 2011 09:08 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Points for responsiveness. it was either watch the game, or read his email. Points for snark.

seawolf17 Sep 13 2011 05:39 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I got the same e-mail, verbatim, FWIW. I'm going to send him a longer response today with my phone number.

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 07:24 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Don't let this issue die.

Centerfield Sep 13 2011 07:30 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

TO: DNewman@nymets.com David, This is really spinning out of control. It's all anyone is talking about. I think the Mets need to issue a statement on this and apologize for getting this wrong. Whoever may be at fault, the bottom line is that those hats needed to be on the field during the game, and lots of people are irate that they weren't. I think you should also state that your organization will be relentless in making sure that these hats are worn on the anniversary of 9/11 from here on out.

Centerfield Sep 13 2011 07:30 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: Don't let this issue die. Agreed. Edgy, you're firing off emails too, right?

Centerfield Sep 13 2011 07:41 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Even this guy gets it:

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 07:43 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Yup. I also got an early question into Adam Rubin's chat today: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/newyork/chat/_/id/40236 I'm trying to hold his feet to the fire to deliver this story with the depth it deserves instead of in dribs and drabs and bites and tweets. He clearly recognizes its significance.

Ceetar Sep 13 2011 07:49 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Even this guy gets it: He didn't wear the hat during the match. How is what he did different than the Mets wearing it pre-game?

Frayed Knot Sep 13 2011 07:49 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Centerfield wrote: Even this guy gets it: And he ain't even a 'merican

Centerfield Sep 13 2011 08:01 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

David Newman gave me a call. To summarize: 1. The Mets are very proud of what they did. They executed their ceremony without a hitch. Officials at FDNY and NYPD all were thrilled, moved and called it perfect. 2. Hats are "immaterial". He quoted Terry Collins by saying "It's not what's on your head, it's what's in your heart." 3. They tried several times to get permission, they were denied, they complied. They are part of MLB and have to respect their rules. 4. They will not issue a press release. The topic is over. 5. They do lots of other great stuff, visiting hospitals, fire departments, some make press, some do not, and this is much more important than the hats. I told him that I respectfully disagree. The hats are a very important symbolic gesture. It would be in the organization's best interest to understand that. Calling the hats immaterial really shows a disconnect between the fans and the organization. He should understand by the buzz around this issue how important this is to many people. I wish he would read the quotes from Valentine and Zeile to see what this is about. A shame. I really came away with the feeling that he didn't get it.

Centerfield Sep 13 2011 08:04 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Even this guy gets it: He didn't wear the hat during the match. How is what he did different than the Mets wearing it pre-game? Because he's not the Mets. Yet he still saw the significance of the hat.

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 08:08 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

When you're a competitive team, the idea is for what's on your uniform to be a reflection of what's in your heart. And if it matters, I was less than impressed with the heart shown on the field by the team Sunday night, and more than impressed by the heart they showed the last few weeks of the 2001 season. Maybe that's crazy, but I don't think so. It's silly for him to think the topic is over. He can't control the story, and he'll only look more foolish and detached trying to wish it away. And no, you don't have to respect unjust rules. There's a higher calling than fealty to MLB. Mets want to wear special caps next Sept. 11 HOWIE RUMBERG (AP) Published: September 12, 2011 NEW YORK (AP) — Mets player representative Josh Thole hopes to come to an agreement soon with Major League Baseball on a policy that would allow his team to wear emergency service-department caps during games on Sept. 11 every year. Thole called the players' association Monday, a day after the Mets were denied their request to wear caps honoring first responders on the 10th anniversary of the attacks. He said he wanted to discuss marketing and licensing possibilities but had not heard back. The Mets wanted to wear caps honoring police, firefighters and other first responders when they played the Chicago Cubs on Sunday night. They wore the hats for batting practice and the pregame ceremony, but MLB insisted they wear their regular caps during the game.

metirish Sep 13 2011 08:10 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I wrote this and got the same automated response. David, I am writing to express my utter frustration and annoyance over this debacle with the first responder hats on 9/11. A simple gesture to show support for these men and women has been turned in to PR disaster that could have and should have been avoided. Now today we have MLB coming out and saying that nothing heavy handed was issued in regards fines and whatnot , you can see where this is going right?, yes, the Mets will once again look like fools that can't do anything correctly, any order from MLB should have been dismissed from up above and the players should have taken the field with whatever responders caps they wished. I would hope that the Mets don't take these MLB lies and issue their own statement and furthermore state that in the future it will be handled differently. Conor - frustrated Mets fan.

G-Fafif Sep 13 2011 08:17 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Humble suggestion proffered to make chicken salad out of chicken spit here: In 2012, Major League Baseball will inaugurate Community Service Recognition Day, when each of our 30 teams will promote the organizations in their communities who are dedicated to helping others by having its players and coaches wear the caps of those groups on the field for one game. Major League Baseball thanks the New York Mets for setting an example we can all follow.

Centerfield Sep 13 2011 08:26 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Brilliant. Thank you Greg.

G-Fafif Sep 13 2011 08:32 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Centerfield wrote: Brilliant. Thank you Greg. Thank you for a portion of the inspiration. And Newman doesn't have a clue.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 13 2011 08:35 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

HahnSolo Sep 13 2011 08:40 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I agree with #1--the pregame was handled beautifully--and I give credit to Newman for at least being a stand-up guy. I'm sure he's dealing with plenty more people who are not quite as eloquent as Centerfield, and that can't be easy. I can't imagine trying to be the mouthpiece to the public for this organization. However, what about the people who couldn't watch the pregame? The first thought of a Met fan tuning in would have to be: "where are the hats"? Also, didn't the Mets put in a press release recently that they would be wearing the caps for the game? What changed? And if, as Newman says, the asked and asked, and MLB said no, then why is MLB saying that no such thing happened?

Ceetar Sep 13 2011 08:48 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Mets players will pay tribute to New York City’s uniformed service men and women by wearing caps representing their organizations following the tradition started by the 2001 team. from the press release. vague, but it certainly sounds like they meant during the game. Perhaps this is where MLB "Got wind" of what the Mets intended. What happened from there however.. The Mets probably wouldn't have suddenly changed their minds on this without pressure from MLB, in whatever form it took. Maybe it wasn't a fine. Maybe it was something else. Maybe they threatened taking away the All-Star Game, etc. Maybe they simply waited until the last moment to remind the Mets "Hey no, you can't do this" giving them no time to formulate a good reply/compromise?

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 09:32 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I suspect it's going to come down to the league applying modest pressure, but pressure that the Mets ownership --- in an existential crisis and utterly in debt to the league office, both financially and professionally --- felt they had no choice in caving to. If that's the scenario, the heavy hand in the clubhouse was likely the management's. And Newman has to carry water for that management.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2011 09:35 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

No question. Given the choice between upsetting their creditors or whizzing all over their fans, the Mets make the predictable choice.

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 10:01 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Terry on the game: “I just think today we lost focus on some things,” Collins said. “The attention is away from the game right now, and that’s an issue with me, because you’ve got to focus on the game. What was the attention on today? You guys can answer that. What’s the attention been since we walked in the ballpark today? It’s not on who we’re playing. It’s not on who’s pitching. We all want to know which kind of hat we’re going to wear tonight. And that takes away from the game. That takes away from their preparation. “They’re all being asked questions. They’re afraid to make an answer. They’re afraid to say the wrong thing. We’ve got to start focusing on what the game is, because when it’s all said and done, in the end, that’s the only thing that matters.”

metirish Sep 13 2011 10:16 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Well said I guess, thankfully the team is not in a pennant race - SC = 100 I can appreciate what Collins is saying and I would hope he has talked to management about it all. Anyone heard from Alderson on this?

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 10:21 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Well, while the manager may have to operate with the notion that the game is all that matters --- and get his team working off the same page --- I disagree that the game is all that matters, and I'm not surprised if the wind was taken out of their sails a little.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2011 10:35 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

If the Mets and MLB not hung them out to dry on the whole thing and for once considered the benefit of a little transparency on the things their fans are going to want to know anyway, they might have clear heads. Fuck the Mets and how they fuck up everything.

G-Fafif Sep 13 2011 10:37 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Fuck the Mets and how they fuck up everything. That's at least third prize should they revive Banner Day anytime soon.

Willets Point Sep 13 2011 10:58 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Woah, there was a notorious troll on the old metsonline fan forum who used the same image of this creepy guy.

Centerfield Sep 13 2011 11:06 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Now we know it was Ben.

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 11:17 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

From the Rubin chat: In the Line of Fyhrie (District of Columbia) On one hand, I'm a fan of the Mets' team's initial response to the attack on New York in 2001. On the other, I dislike conformity in professional sports, coerced or otherwise. Anything that makes teams more different from one another makes the games more interesting and more meaningful. On both hands, I'm kind of really angry about the current Mets team being apparently prevented from wearing the hats of the service agencies this year (as well as to mark the anniversary in recent years, as they had initially done the first few years after the attack). I find further disappointment that the facts of this story aren't coming out in one aggressively pursued in-depth story, but in drips and drabs and bites and tweets, as so much journalism is delivered these days. That's just the way of things, I know, but we're left with a lot of information, some of it conflicting, and little satisfaction. As someone who is not prepared to let go of this, who should I be directing my disappointment at --- the current team? the management? MLB? the commissioner? Joe Torre? I'm committed to being proactive here. Adam Rubin (12:55 PM) I'm going to end with this answer. You can fault any number of people. (1) Major League Baseball should have just said go ahead and wear them, but they have contracts with hat companies, etc., and didn't do the right thing. (2) The ownership/front office of the Mets could have instructed the players to wear it anyway, but they're literally indebted to MLB and didn't feel emboldened to rock the boat too much. (3) The players could have worn it anyway. But there are a lot of factors there. The current players didn't know the history of what Todd Zeile did, not until late Sunday anyway. And the union rep, Josh Thole, was put in an awful position. He's 24 years old and really just was drafted to be player rep because no one else was interested. A veteran could have stood up in the clubhouse and told the team they're going ahead and doing this. But that leadership wasn't there. Not liking that recent Zeile's statements are being taken to suggest that he was the instigator 10 years ago. I imagine that wasn't his intent.

seawolf17 Sep 13 2011 11:20 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Adam Rubin wrote: And the union rep, Josh Thole, was put in an awful position. He's 24 years old and really just was drafted to be player rep because no one else was interested. A veteran could have stood up in the clubhouse and told the team they're going ahead and doing this. But that leadership wasn't there. Holy fuck, that's a scathing indictment of this team. Nobody on this team has the compunction to stand up and be the player rep? Forget Wright and Reyes for a minute -- a guy like Byrdak or Capuano or Bay who's been around the league for a while, a senior voice? You hand that to a 24-year-old kid? Frig. I honestly don't know why I care about this team so much.

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 11:29 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Wright is the best candidate here --- 'Merican, son of a cop, goes back to the days when the tradition was in place and many of the players who were there when it started were still active. But he's too image conscious about being a good team citizen. Who else is there with the juice to take initiative, really? R.A. Dickey is the only one, I think.

metirish Sep 13 2011 11:29 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

seawolf17 wrote: Adam Rubin wrote: And the union rep, Josh Thole, was put in an awful position. He's 24 years old and really just was drafted to be player rep because no one else was interested. A veteran could have stood up in the clubhouse and told the team they're going ahead and doing this. But that leadership wasn't there. Holy fuck, that's a scathing indictment of this team. Nobody on this team has the compunction to stand up and be the player rep? Forget Wright and Reyes for a minute -- a guy like Byrdak or Capuano or Bay who's been around the league for a while, a senior voice? You hand that to a 24-year-old kid? Frig. I honestly don't know why I care about this team so much. This, I know I was shocked when I read that thole was union rep, I believe Edgy was too.As Rubin explains it above it really looks terrible on the team. I remember guys like Glavine , Traschel and Lieter took this job really seriously.

seawolf17 Sep 13 2011 11:34 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I know, in my heart, that these guys are spoiled brat rich kids who don't give a flying fuck about you or me. But we root for the laundry, because I remember being ten years old in 1986. And I remember being in the stands in Rochester in 1997 when the Red Wings won the IL title, and I want to do that at Citi Field someday now that I'm an adult. And I remember the Piazza wild pitch, and the Pratt home run, and all the moments that made me just go fucking bananas and made me feel like I was part of a winner, even though I know full well that I'm nothing to them. I'm not a season ticket holder, not a fan club member, just some schlub who collects baseball cards and wears a blue hat every day. Ah, I don't even have the energy to finish my thought. I hate this crap, and it's so annoying that if they'd just said "eff it" and worn the damn caps and paid the fine or whatever, we would have stood up, as a fan base, and said YES, THANK YOU, METS. Instead we do this. Dammit dammit dammit. Eff David Wright, eff Josh Thole, eff the whole damn organization. Dammit.

Frayed Knot Sep 13 2011 12:27 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Most union reps wind up being union reps because no one else wanted the job. That part of it at least is nothing unusual.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2011 01:08 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Wright's comments in the Snooze today brought a tear to my eye. Asked if they considered wearing them without an OK he said "of course not. MLB lays out the guidelines and it's up to us to follow them." Good question-asking above Fyrhie

Ceetar Sep 13 2011 01:14 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wright's comments in the Snooze today brought a tear to my eye. Asked if they considered wearing them without an OK he said "of course not. MLB lays out the guidelines and it's up to us to follow them." Good question-asking above Fyrhie That's the only answer, and the correct one. Regardless of what you think he should've done, _Wright_ can't be actively talking about disobeying MLB.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 13 2011 01:48 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Yes he can.

Ashie62 Sep 13 2011 01:51 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

"I will not wear the ribbon."

Benjamin Grimm Sep 13 2011 02:17 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Of course he can.

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 02:23 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wright's comments in the Snooze today brought a tear to my eye. Asked if they considered wearing them without an OK he said "of course not. MLB lays out the guidelines and it's up to us to follow them." Good question-asking above Fyrhie That's the only answer, and the correct one. Regardless of what you think he should've done, _Wright_ can't be actively talking about disobeying MLB. What? Only Jeter can? I do it almost every day.

Ceetar Sep 13 2011 02:27 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

you're not employed by them. Jeter's an idiot and probably a cheater. But I'm not sure how/why he fits into this conversation.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 13 2011 02:39 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wright's comments in the Snooze today brought a tear to my eye. Asked if they considered wearing them without an OK he said "of course not. MLB lays out the guidelines and it's up to us to follow them." Good question-asking above Fyrhie That's the only answer, and the correct one. Regardless of what you think he should've done, _Wright_ can't be actively talking about disobeying MLB. Oh c'mon. Jeez, in the name of Curt Flood ferchrissakes. Fuck the Establishment.* *Even though here, the anti-establishment is comprised of pampered and privileged multimillionaires.

themetfairy Sep 13 2011 06:14 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Centerfield wrote: David Newman gave me a call. To summarize: 1. The Mets are very proud of what they did. They executed their ceremony without a hitch. Officials at FDNY and NYPD all were thrilled, moved and called it perfect. 2. Hats are "immaterial". He quoted Terry Collins by saying "It's not what's on your head, it's what's in your heart." 3. They tried several times to get permission, they were denied, they complied. They are part of MLB and have to respect their rules. 4. They will not issue a press release. The topic is over. 5. They do lots of other great stuff, visiting hospitals, fire departments, some make press, some do not, and this is much more important than the hats. I told him that I respectfully disagree. The hats are a very important symbolic gesture. It would be in the organization's best interest to understand that. Calling the hats immaterial really shows a disconnect between the fans and the organization. He should understand by the buzz around this issue how important this is to many people. I wish he would read the quotes from Valentine and Zeile to see what this is about. A shame. I really came away with the feeling that he didn't get it. Thanks for not letting him off the hook CF!

themetfairy Sep 13 2011 07:44 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Here's the thing - in a season in which we've had very little to be proud about, we could have been proud of the Mets on Sunday for continuously honoring the heroes of 9/11 by wearing the agency hats. But we were deprived of the opportunity to take some pride in our team, even for one night.

Edgy DC Sep 13 2011 08:00 PM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Ceetar wrote: you're not employed by them. I openly discuss defying my employer, my government, and my church regularly. We're a free society and neither having a conscience nor revealing you have one are crimes. We all know the authorities aren't always right, and civil disobedience is a time-honored part of our culture. You don't like me as an example? How about Josh Thole? He openly discussed defying the ban. So did R.A. Dickey. The 2001 Mets took it beyond the discussion stage. Ceetar wrote: Jeter's an idiot and probably a cheater. But I'm not sure how/why he fits into this conversation. He apparently told MLB to stick their uniform stars up their collective asses.

Edgy DC Sep 14 2011 05:25 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

2. Hats are "immaterial". He quoted Terry Collins by saying "It's not what's on your head, it's what's in your heart." 3. They tried several times to get permission, they were denied, they complied. They are part of MLB and have to respect their rules. If (2) is true, why bother trying with (3)?

metirish Sep 14 2011 08:22 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Tracksuit weighs in and says the outrage is "outsized" , the issue is silly but lays blame all over the place Outrage over Mets not wearing caps of NYPD, FDNY, PAPD on 9/11 shows how pain of day still lingers The National Football League spray-painted ribbons onto its fields. Baseball sewed flag patches onto its teams' hats. Video tributes were everywhere. Sports did its best on Sunday to wrap its 9/11 remembrances in glossy, sentimental and simplified packages. Honor the 10th anniversary, but make sure it goes down easily, so we can shake it off, enjoy the games and buy the licensed memorabilia. But Cap Flap at Citi Field, a story that grew legs and walked all the way to midweek, came roaring out of the darkness to provide the most fitting remembrance of all: It was disheartening, complex and irrational, just like the legacy of 9/11 itself. For all of its silliness, this hat issue cut deeply, and taught us about ourselves. Mistakes and overreactions by every party - Major League Baseball, Mets management, Mets players - showed how raw 9/11 remains in New York, and how we are still unable to deal with it cleanly. No one behaved well, but the outrage inspired by each piece of this story was outsized. To catalog the missteps: * Despite a desire to 1) create uniformity in its policies and 2) profit from the sale of game-worn 9/11 caps, MLB should have just let the Mets wear first responder hats during Sunday's game. For what it's worth, New Era, which manufactured the American flag hats used in all MLB games Sunday, said it would not have objected to the Mets wearing first responder hats, as the team so memorably did in 2001. "Whatever Major League Baseball decided, we would have supported that decision," New Era spokeswoman Dana Marciniak told the Daily News' Michael O'Keeffe Tuesday. It is difficult not to conclude that MLB, tempted by memorabilia money, made an odious calculation. MLB reps did not return calls for official comment Tuesday. * Mets management should have told its players to ignore the edict and do what they felt was right. There have been conflicting claims about potential fines that would have been levied on players and/or the team, but one suspects the amount would have been affordable for anyone wishing to stand on principle. * Some Mets veteran should have spared 24-year-old Josh Thole from acting as the face of the team on this issue just because he is the union representative. Thole conducted himself with with grace, but was in an unfair position. None of those offenses was surprising, or worthy of the attention and outrage they received. But that is where Cap Flap was instructive: It swallowed efforts to keep 9/11 tributes simple. It pounded us with an inconvenient truth - most of us are not ready to look back on an event that has not yet left us. The decade since those towers fell has brought economic and political gloom. It brought two wars. It brought a presidency that first represented racial breakthrough, and descended for many into disappointment. It brought unrelated, but still momentous, calamities such as the D.C. sniper, Katrina and 10% unemployment. The cloud of that day has not lifted, and we are not ready for simple retrospectives. We can try, but reality comes raging in. That is why this latest Mets controversy, though even weirder than K-RodGate or Walter ReedGate or New YorkerGate, is so telling - and so appropriate. At a time when many of us still change the channel rather than watch footage of those buildings falling, when we are tired from 10 years of worry about our country and nervous about 10 more - when all that is still happening, it makes sense that we would go crazy for a few days about a 9/11-related issue, because nothing related to those memories is trivial. Buy Mets Tickets Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... z1Xw8ZlXfI

HahnSolo Sep 14 2011 08:38 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Oh, Tracksuit... For all of its silliness, Silliness, really? For what it's worth, New Era, which manufactured the American flag hats used in all MLB games Sunday, said it would not have objected to the Mets wearing first responder hats, as the team so memorably did in 2001. That's the only real piece of new info I got out of this story. Good to know New Era at least has some sensibility. It is difficult not to conclude that MLB, tempted by memorabilia money, made an odious calculation. If it is in fact difficult to not conclude this, then I would hardly call the outrage "outsized." There have been conflicting claims about potential fines that would have been levied on players and/or the team, but one suspects the amount would have been affordable for anyone wishing to stand on principle. Then please get to the heart of the matter, and find out about the potential fines, don't just speculate that the amount would have been affordable. because nothing related to those memories is trivial. Then what is the point of this? Didn't you spend the whole column telling us that this is entirely overblown?

Edgy DC Sep 14 2011 08:46 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

HahnSolo wrote: For what it's worth, New Era, which manufactured the American flag hats used in all MLB games Sunday, said it would not have objected to the Mets wearing first responder hats, as the team so memorably did in 2001. That's the only real piece of new info I got out of this story. Good to know New Era at least has some sensibility. Or claims to. That's an easy position to claim after the fact. HahnSolo wrote: There have been conflicting claims about potential fines that would have been levied on players and/or the team, but one suspects the amount would have been affordable for anyone wishing to stand on principle. Then please get to the heart of the matter, and find out about the potential fines, don't just speculate that the amount would have been affordable. True. That's been my point, too. Can someone write a definitive piece here? Like so much of today's media, we get a shovelful of opinion for every teaspoon of fact. HahnSolo wrote: because nothing related to those memories is trivial. Then what is the point of this? Didn't you spend the whole column telling us that this is entirely overblown? Point, Solo.

Edgy DC Sep 16 2011 07:39 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

The 2001 Mets record immediately after donning the hats: 5-0. The 2011 Mets record immediately after forsaking the hats: 0-5. Immaterial.

metirish Sep 16 2011 07:47 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Upon reflection this squad doesn't deserve to wear the hats.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 16 2011 07:53 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

metirish wrote: Upon reflection this squad doesn't deserve to wear the hats. Really, I think this incident, particularly the accompanying flee from responsibility by everyone involved, served as a lesson in how incompetent and unaccountable their organization is, and began to reflect it on the field.

Edgy DC Sep 16 2011 07:58 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

It's easy to draw connections that aren't there, but yeah.

G-Fafif Sep 16 2011 08:06 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Also, Dick Cheney says we haven't been attacked since the Mets first wore those caps.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 16 2011 08:35 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

HahnSolo wrote: Oh, Tracksuit... For what it's worth, New Era, which manufactured the American flag hats used in all MLB games Sunday, said it would not have objected to the Mets wearing first responder hats, as the team so memorably did in 2001. That's the only real piece of new info I got out of this story. Good to know New Era at least has some sensibility. I'm not convinced about the truthfulness of New Era's quote. This could be revisionist PR. What the quote probably does mean for sure, though --assuming that New Era has MLB's cap contract for next season-- is that the Mets will be permitted to wear the responder caps in 2012.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 16 2011 08:37 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

Edgy DC wrote: Or claims to. That's an easy position to claim after the fact. Yeah.

HahnSolo Sep 16 2011 08:42 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

You're both correct for pointing that out, of course. I wanted to draw attention to it because it was the first I had heard anything from New Era on the subject.

metirish Sep 16 2011 08:46 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

I'm disappointed not to have heard from Alderson on this, unless I missed it his next comment will be his first.I'm disappointed because this is the sort of thing I thought he would have stood up for, ex marine and all that , it's like he has disappeared.

HahnSolo Sep 16 2011 08:46 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

metirish wrote: I'm disappointed not to have heard from Alderson on this, unless I missed it his next comment will be his first.I'm disappointed because this is the sort of thing I thought he would have stood up for, ex marine and all that , it's like he has disappeared. Good point.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 16 2011 08:58 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

It seems like Sandy has, much like many fans, pretty much tuned out the Mets for the past couple of weeks. Hopefully he'll start paying attention again in the offseason.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 16 2011 09:18 AM Re: City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

metirish wrote: I'm disappointed not to have heard from Alderson on this, unless I missed it his next comment will be his first.I'm disappointed because this is the sort of thing I thought he would have stood up for, ex marine and all that , it's like he has disappeared. At this point, the Mets should just bury the issue and walk away from it. Which is what I think is happening. It's become so tangled up, so full of incompatible and irreconcilable statements, that no sane person would want to touch it. I don't know how Alderson could publicly address this issue in honest fashion without denigrating either Selig, Torre or the Wilpons.