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Pelfrey in 2012

Re-sign Mike Pelfrey this winter (thru arb or otherwise)

11 votes

Re-up Pelfrey but trade him away before the season starts

4 votes

Release/Non-tender him

5 votes

Frayed Knot Sep 21 2011 08:32 PM

Declare your predictions and state your case as to the status of one Michael Pelfrey come opening day 2012.

Ceetar Sep 21 2011 08:37 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

I think he'll be resigned. I'd probably do the same, depending. I'd definitely consider trading for another starting pitcher this offseason, with some of the extraneous 'decent' parts the Mets have. If you could pull in something decent that way, I'd look to swap Pelfrey for a nice prospect or something. Provided Santana is on scheduled for opening day anyway.

smg58 Sep 22 2011 06:31 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

He's had enough good years to justify his 2012 salary. Keeping him or trading him depends on other moves the Mets make. They would need to add another starter before he would be expendable. If the Mets make the right bullpen upgrades, they could live with a rotation of Santana, Dickey, Niese, Pelfrey, and Gee.

bmfc1 Sep 22 2011 06:40 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

I voted with my heart as I hope that he will be non-tendered the second the season ends. I never want to see him pitch for the Mets again. I know that there are logical reasons for keeping him but I don't care.

metirish Sep 22 2011 06:41 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

He'll be resigned , Alderson made some interesting comments the other night about how many innings the starters gave the club this year, he was happy with that but remarked that they need to work on getting the quality to go along with the quantity.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2011 06:45 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

My hunch (and not a strong one) is that he'll be gone. (I don't know by what means.) I think they'll find someone to replace him at a lower price.

Ceetar Sep 22 2011 07:03 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

smg58 wrote: He's had enough good years to justify his 2012 salary. Keeping him or trading him depends on other moves the Mets make. They would need to add another starter before he would be expendable. If the Mets make the right bullpen upgrades, they could live with a rotation of Santana, Dickey, Niese, Pelfrey, and Gee. You could actually make the case that he's the exact same pitcher he's always been and has shown little growth or regression. And that it's pretty reasonable to expect somewhere between 2010 and 2011 in terms of numbers. The only thing that's really gotten worse is his GB% which is dropped each year. His FB/HR rate is up this year, which may or may not be correlated to the GB% (his GB% wasn't graet last year either, and he didn't give up many home runs) You could certainly make the case that if he could work on the sinker more, throw it more, get mroe GB, that you'd reasonably expect less HRs and less damaging numbers.

attgig Sep 22 2011 07:48 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

i voted that he gets traded away, but i'm pretty sure he'll be in the rotation next year and prove us all pelfrey haters wrong... i still don't want any piece of him when he's out of arb...

TransMonk Sep 22 2011 07:50 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Ultimately, I think a choice will be made between Capuano and Pelfrey. I'd take Cappy. But, my hunch is that Pelfrey will be in the Mets rotation for one more year.

MFS62 Sep 22 2011 07:54 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

IMO what happens to Pelfrey in the off season depends largely on what Sandy can do to improve the pitching. That's a nice way of saying that I would trade his ass in a heartbeat. I wish Chris Young a very speedy recovery. Later

G-Fafif Sep 22 2011 07:57 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Better chance of being around come April than Santorum in 2012. But maybe not as good as those of Perry in 2012.

Gwreck Sep 22 2011 09:38 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

TransMonk wrote: Ultimately, I think a choice will be made between Capuano and Pelfrey. I'd take Cappy. But, my hunch is that Pelfrey will be in the Mets rotation for one more year. Their WARs are almost identical (1.6 Capuano, 1.7 Pelfrey) but given that Capuano is likely to get a 2-year deal on the open market (or more) I think the responsible move is to keep Pelfrey. I don't love the move but there aren't exactly a lot of better options for those 200 innings. I guess we could dump Pelfrey and sign CJ Wilson but the Mets presumably don't have the bucks for that.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 09:41 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Six Millans over one year for Pelf versus eight over two for Capuano? Is that about how we're framing the decision?

Ceetar Sep 22 2011 09:44 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Edgy DC wrote: Six Millans over one year for Pelf versus eight over two for Capuano? Is that about how we're framing the decision? Pelf might take the two for 8ish. It's an interesting thought. Pelfrey could easily pitch slightly better, and will command in abitration a slight raise again in 2013. You hope minor league options step up by then, but it seems foolish to bank on it. If he's making 4-5 in 2013, instead of looking at 7-8, he'd probably be pretty tradeable if the Mets have Meija/Cohoon/Harvey/etc types looking to push him out.

smg58 Sep 22 2011 10:12 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

I was disappointed by Capuano, who wasn't any better than Pelfrey this year, and I think Pelfrey is a better bet to improve (though not a sure thing by a long shot). Given what we'll have at AAA in 2012 and the fact that both pitchers are capable of losing value rather than gaining it next year, I'd have a hard time justifying multiple guaranteed years to either.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 10:17 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

They're all capable of losing value rather than gaining it. All capable of getting worse or better. The question remains what those likelihoods are, how much they cost, and how they compare to the alternatives.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2011 10:33 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Mets draft Pelfrey. One of the oldest threads in our archives. Niese and Parnell content also.

TransMonk Sep 22 2011 10:34 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

I was definitely more disappointed in Pelfrey's 2011 campaign than Capuano's. He was the opening day starter for criminey. In corporate speak, I would give Capuano a Meets Expectations and Pelfrey a Needs improvement for 2011. Neither would get a raise (which, I guess would be comparable to a multi-year deal). I'm hoping the point will be moot in 2013 when all of the young studs are hopefully percolating out of the farm system.

batmagadanleadoff Sep 22 2011 10:35 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Talk about a receding arc. Pelf might've been the most coveted pitcher coming out of his class. He dropped down to the Mets' slot because, as a Scott Boras client, he scared away every team picking ahead of the Mets that might've otherwise had an interest. The scouts drooled about Pelf's ceiling, all based on his BMOC 97+ MPH fastball coupled with a devastating heavy sinker. He never threw 97+ in a Mets uniform. Or 97 without the +. And now, his sinker stopped sinking.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2011 10:43 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

What struck me about the reports were those that said Pelfrey had the heart of a lion, fortitude and maturity etc. We know now he's a bit of a kitten given to wishywashiness NTTAWWT

Fman99 Sep 22 2011 10:47 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Shoot him into fucking outer space. Enough Pelf.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 22 2011 11:20 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Mets draft Pelfrey. One of the oldest threads in our archives. Niese and Parnell content also. Mets drafted Josh Thole and Pedro Beato that year too. From that thread, here's what jumped out at me: ="Johnny Dickshot Jun 07 2005 11] Pedro Beato Yes!

Also, it had me wondering what ever happened to Hector Pellot.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 22 2011 11:23 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

We just discussed this draft in a recent thread: [url]http://www.cranepoolforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16783&hilit=draft I think the point was, if every draft produced 3-5 regulars in 4 years, you'd probably have a pretty good team.

Ashie62 Sep 22 2011 05:45 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

If Pelfrey is going to get about 7 million in arbitration I would non tender him and try and find a couple of Capuano's and spend the rest towards an ace.

bmfc1 Sep 26 2011 06:32 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Terry Collins said he may have put too much of a burden on Pelfrey by naming him the Opening Day starter. Pelfrey finished with the highest ERA by a Mets Opening Day starter since Pete Harnisch in 1997 at 7.03 ERA, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. "I'll take full responsibility if I put the heavy load on his shoulders by naming him the Opening Day starter," Collins said. What a crock. Collins is politely making excuses for him but yesterday should have been his last appearance in a Mets uniform. Pelfrey doesn't have the brains and the stones to be a successful major league pitcher.

metirish Sep 26 2011 06:33 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

bmfc1 wrote: Terry Collins said he may have put too much of a burden on Pelfrey by naming him the Opening Day starter. Pelfrey finished with the highest ERA by a Mets Opening Day starter since Pete Harnisch in 1997 at 7.03 ERA, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. "I'll take full responsibility if I put the heavy load on his shoulders by naming him the Opening Day starter," Collins said. What a crock. Collins is politely making excuses for him but yesterday should have been his last appearance in a Mets uniform. Pelfrey doesn't have the brains and the stones to be a successful major league pitcher. yeah really, opening day starter means shite after that start , what a load of bollox.

Edgy DC Sep 26 2011 06:43 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

After going 7-13 with a 4.74 ERA in 193 and 2/3 innings, with a cavernous home park, is there any reason to necessarily think he'd get seven million? I would have guessed he was among the league leaders in homers allowed, but he was merely tied for 17th with 21. Bronson Arroyo (who starts for the Reds Tuesday) gave up 44!

Ceetar Sep 26 2011 07:16 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Edgy DC wrote: After going 7-13 with a 4.74 ERA in 193 and 2/3 innings, with a cavernous home park, is there any reason to necessarily think he'd get seven million? I would have guessed he was among the league leaders in homers allowed, but he was merely tied for 17th with 21. Bronson Arroyo (who starts for the Reds Tuesday) gave up 44! bah, forum ate my reply. He agreed to a 3.925 contract last year. Given the year he's had it'd be hard to imagine he wouldn't agree to that again this year, unless someone out there gives big money to a similar type pitcher. I don't think even Boras is going to stick to his guns, claim the Mets made Pelfrey the Ace and he should be paid like Tim Lincecum.

Edgy DC Sep 26 2011 07:24 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

So, I imagine a smart Mets team wouldn't make a decision until some numbers are exchanged.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2011 07:31 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Right. There's no need to cut Pelfrey loose prematurely. If you can retain him at an acceptable price, you might as well keep him in the mix. If he does go to arbitration, and wins more money than the Mets want to spend, they're not obligated to pay it, are they? If I understand correctly, they can release him before spring training and not be on the hook at all, or perhaps for a small portion of the contract.

Ceetar Sep 26 2011 07:42 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Right. There's no need to cut Pelfrey loose prematurely. If you can retain him at an acceptable price, you might as well keep him in the mix. If he does go to arbitration, and wins more money than the Mets want to spend, they're not obligated to pay it, are they? If I understand correctly, they can release him before spring training and not be on the hook at all, or perhaps for a small portion of the contract. Does that rule apply to non-free agent arbitration? I guess it's all the same. The panel, without opinion, awards the player a one-year, non-guaranteed contract at one salary or the other. If the player is cut within 16 days before the season begins, he is entitled only to 30 days’ termination pay. If the player is cut during spring training but after the 16th day before the season begins, he is entitled only to 45 days’ termination pay. Read more at Suite101: How Baseball Arbitration Works: MLB Rules Governing the Eligibility and Process of Arbitration | Suite101.com http://jameslincolnray.suite101.com/how ... z1Z48uFcAU I'd be surprised if they don't agree to terms though.

dgwphotography Sep 26 2011 08:28 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

bmfc1 wrote: I voted with my heart as I hope that he will be non-tendered the second the season ends. I never want to see him pitch for the Mets again. I know that there are logical reasons for keeping him but I don't care. Same here.

Edgy DC Sep 26 2011 08:45 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Hasn't everybody and his sister mocked the pre-Alderson Mets for being everything but smart? Now we want theme to forsake doing the smart thing for doing the thing that satisfies bloodlust? I salute them for letting the Perez and Castillo cases play themselves out, rather than acting rashly. It think they're doing OK. I think every team has a whipping boy and Pelf has inherited the job, but it seems smarter to me to focus on developing and getting better players rather than shedding bad ones. If you do the former, the latter takes care of itself.

bmfc1 Sep 26 2011 09:04 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

"Bloodlust"? What has he done to jusitfy a spot on the Mets roster in '12?

Gwreck Sep 26 2011 09:13 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

He threw 193 innings with a WAR of 1.1.

Ceetar Sep 26 2011 09:14 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

bmfc1 wrote: "Bloodlust"? What has he done to jusitfy a spot on the Mets roster in '12? Been better than D.J. Carrasco for one. (He's on the roster next year unless they cut him. You want him to start?) Pitched to a mediocre 4 ERA through the summer months, with almost every game eminently winable if the excellent Mets offense wasn't on the DL and they played better defense. More importantly for '12, he's under team control, has ability, and is a hard worker. Hopefully with plenty to work on (and maybe some better direction) he comes out next year closer to 2010 than 2011. He's gotta get the sinker back, but his peripherial stats are pretty much in line with his entire career. Which is reason to expect somewhat of a bounceback.

metirish Sep 26 2011 09:20 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Pelfrey is a hard worker?, no way of knowing what the truth is but my thinking on that if I give it thought is that he's the opposite of a hard worker. What does being a hard worker mean anyway?

Edgy DC Sep 26 2011 09:22 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

"Bloodlust?" I don't think that's too poor a term to characterize a wish for the end of a Mets career to be immediate, retributive, and regardless of what a detached cost/benefit analysis might recommend. We've used the term before. MFS62 is making cracks about buying a mob hit on him. What has he done to jusitfy a spot on the Mets roster in '12? I don't mean to necessarily suggest he's done much at all. But when it's him vs. Schwinden, I'm reluctant to pull the trigger. When it's him vs. Capuano, I'd have to look at the price tag.

Vic Sage Sep 26 2011 09:23 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

What has he done to jusitfy a spot on the Mets roster in '12? it's not what he's done, it's what he is... property under team control. If they find somebody better at a cheaper price, or a trade partner who see more value in him than Sandy does, he'll be replaced. The rest is scapegoating. Yeah, he sucked this year. He has sucked less in past years, and he's young enough to suck less in future years. I won't miss him if he's gone, but non-tendering him is an emotional reaction, not good business judgment. While i expect that of fans, I would expect more of Sandy.

Vic Sage Sep 26 2011 09:25 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

What does being a hard worker mean anyway? i'm just guessing here, but i might think that phrase means he works hard.

Ceetar Sep 26 2011 09:28 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

metirish wrote: Pelfrey is a hard worker?, no way of knowing what the truth is but my thinking on that if I give it thought is that he's the opposite of a hard worker. What does being a hard worker mean anyway? Just my perception from what I hear him say and reported. He seems to have a good worth ethic, puts in his time, tries new pitches, etc. Certainly no good way of knowing the truth. There are surely signs the other way too, but I doubt there are very many 'lazy' baseball players.

metirish Sep 26 2011 09:30 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Ceetar wrote: metirish wrote: Pelfrey is a hard worker?, no way of knowing what the truth is but my thinking on that if I give it thought is that he's the opposite of a hard worker. What does being a hard worker mean anyway? Just my perception from what I hear him say and reported. He seems to have a good worth ethic, puts in his time, tries new pitches, etc. Certainly no good way of knowing the truth. There are surely signs the other way too, but I doubt there are very many 'lazy' baseball players. Yeah, if he were 20-5 I'd think he's a great worker I suppose, perception can be a bitch with a team like this.

G-Fafif Sep 26 2011 09:33 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Via whichever process is most net-beneficial to the Mets' fortunes, I non-virulently hope Mike Pelfrey finds fulfillment and tranquility in another uniform next year.

bmfc1 Sep 26 2011 10:09 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Vic Sage makes a good point about him being under "control" and it being a question of finding a better option. I can't imagine many worse options and don't want any more time wasted on him. No matter how they get rid of him, so long as they do will be fine with me.

Gwreck Sep 26 2011 10:22 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

bmfc1 wrote: I can't imagine many worse options All due respect, I don't think you're trying hard enough. What about trying to fill Pelfrey's 200 innings with more Miguel Batista and Chris Schwinden?

Vic Sage Sep 26 2011 10:27 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

I can't imagine many worse options That demonstrates a dearth of imagination on your part. What i can't imagine are Mets fans who don't routinely shutter at the memory of substantially worse, higher-paid, less healthy, much older starters with far less potential than Pelfrey who have littered the Mets' rotation throughout the history of the franchise. let's make a list, chronologically. I'll start: Roger Craig - 62-63 Al Jackson - 62-65 Galen Cisco - 63-65 Tracy Stallard - 63-64 Jack Fisher - 64-67 Bob Shaw - 66-67 ok, i'm bored already.

Edgy DC Sep 26 2011 10:36 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Oliver Perez. (Talk about bloodlust.)

G-Fafif Sep 26 2011 10:55 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Having faith Sandy Alderson can expand the potential 2012 options to encompass something more than September stopgaps, glaring washouts and Mike Pelfrey.

bmfc1 Sep 26 2011 11:31 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012 Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 26 2011 12:27 PM

I have complete confidence that Sandy Alderson and Jonah Hill will be able to find a better use for a roster spot than Mike Pelfrey.

Ceetar Sep 26 2011 11:55 AM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

bmfc1 wrote: I have completed confidence that Sandy Alderson and Jonah Hill will be able to find a better use for a roster spot than Mike Pelfrey. And if they do, Santana is probably healthy, coupled with Niese and Dickey and Gee the Mets should be right there to compete for the division.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 26 2011 12:28 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

If Pelf weren't this team's former first-round pick, he'd be a cheaper Trachsel. I'd still curse if he were pitching a game I were attending... but yeah, there's pricier/worse (or much-pricier/not-likely-to-be-much-better), and that comprises most of the free-agent pitchers this offseason. Erik Bedard (33) Mark Buehrle (33) Chris Capuano (33) Bruce Chen (35) Bartolo Colon (39) Aaron Cook (33) - $11MM mutual option with a $500K buyout Kyle Davies (28) Doug Davis (36) Ryan Dempster (35) - $14MM player option, no buyout Zach Duke (29) - $5.5MM club option with a $750K buyout Jeff Francis (30) Freddy Garcia (36) Jon Garland (32) - $8MM club option with a $500K buyout Aaron Harang (34) - $5MM mutual option with a $500K buyout Rich Harden (30) Livan Hernandez (37) Hisashi Iwakuma (31) Edwin Jackson (28) Kenshin Kawakami (37) Scott Kazmir (28) - $13.5MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout Hiroki Kuroda (37) Rodrigo Lopez (36) Paul Maholm (30) - $9.75MM club option with a $750K buyout Jason Marquis (33) Kevin Millwood (37) Sergio Mitre (31) Roy Oswalt (34) - $16MM mutual option with a $2MM buyout Brad Penny (34) Oliver Perez (30) Joel Pineiro (33) C.C. Sabathia (31) - may opt out of remaining four years, $92MM Javier Vazquez (35) Tsuyoshi Wada (31) Adam Wainwright (30) - $10MM vesting option for '12, $12MM for '13 Tim Wakefield (45) Chien-Ming Wang (32) Brandon Webb (33) Dontrelle Willis (30) C.J. Wilson (31) Chris Young (33)

John Cougar Lunchbucket Sep 26 2011 12:35 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Good pitching don't grow on trees. Wonder if Pelf woulda been better served over the long haul staying within Rick Petersen's more rigid confines. Less f'ing around with everything, more attention on getting the stuff he has consistent and accurate. I'm sure Warthen is a genius in his own right, but he seems to be out of ideas to save Pelf. Carrasco and Iggyrashy too.

metirish Sep 26 2011 12:50 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

What I'd give to be a below average shite pitcher like some of that lot above, why yes, I'll gladly take $9 mills to be shite for you.

Ceetar Sep 26 2011 12:55 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Actually, give me Mark Buehrle in a heartbeat.

Edgy DC Sep 26 2011 12:56 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

I don't like irish's attitude and I think Alderson should think long and hard before signing him.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Sep 26 2011 12:58 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Edgy DC wrote: I don't like irish's attitude and I think Alderson should think long and hard before signing him. Plus, you pitching coach would need an interpreter. ("You're feeling 'chuffed?' So... I should warm up the lefty, then?")

metirish Sep 26 2011 01:05 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I don't like irish's attitude and I think Alderson should think long and hard before signing him. Plus, you pitching coach would need an interpreter. ("You're feeling 'chuffed?' So... I should warm up the lefty, then?") Pete Flynn, sounds the same as the day he came from Leitrim in 1962.

G-Fafif Sep 26 2011 01:15 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy DC wrote: I don't like irish's attitude and I think Alderson should think long and hard before signing him. Plus, you pitching coach would need an interpreter. ("You're feeling 'chuffed?' So... I should warm up the lefty, then?") "Chuffed? Trainer's got something for that, kid. Sprinkle it liberally and then strap it on. We've still got a shot at third place."

Frayed Knot Sep 26 2011 02:20 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Ceetar wrote: Actually, give me Mark Buehrle in a heartbeat. Because even if he sucked as much as Pelfrey he'd be more tolerable simply on account of his bad games only taking half as long.

Ceetar Sep 26 2011 02:34 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Actually, give me Mark Buehrle in a heartbeat. Because even if he sucked as much as Pelfrey he'd be more tolerable simply on account of his bad games only taking half as long. Buehrle's been a pretty consistenty good pitcher for a long time.

Gwreck Sep 26 2011 04:08 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

...and is extremely unlikely to leave the White Sox.

Ceetar Sep 26 2011 05:09 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Gwreck wrote: ...and is extremely unlikely to leave the White Sox. sure, but he's a free agent on that list.

Edgy DC Sep 26 2011 07:42 PM Re: Pelfrey in 2012

Josh Stinson: Not demonstrating himself to be an improvement on Pelfrey.